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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

Contents:
  Homebrew Digest #204 (July 19, 1989) (ferguson ct 71078)
  Re: Lager question (John D. Polstra)
  Bottling in 2 Liter Pop Bottles (ferguson ct 71078)
  Wanted: Cider Clues/Recipes (Brian Atkins)

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Date: Wed, 19 Jul 89 11:45:23 EDT
From: ferguson%X102C at HARRIS-ATD.COM (ferguson ct 71078)
Subject: Homebrew Digest #204 (July 19, 1989)

>It was my understanding that lagers should sit in the carboy for
>at least a month.  This brew, however, looks as if it's ready to
>bottle and age.  I have noticed a quick fermentation in the past
>using Red Star lager yeast for steam beer.  The product was quite
>good however.
>
>What would you recommend--bottling or further aging in the carboy?
>Thanks.
>
>[Florian Bell, Boonesborough, Oregon]

I have never been able to successfully correlate brewing time with
anything.  I generally brew 10 gallons at a time in two 5 gallon
fermenters.  In spite of my reasonable efforts to ensure consistency
between the two fermenters, they never finish fermenting at the same
time.  The worst case was a batch where one 5 gallon fermenter
finished in less than three days whereas the other was still merrily
bubbling along after 3 weeks.  I bottled both because I was tired of
waiting and didn't want the fast batch to spoil.  Both tasted great at
bottling time and tasted even better after some bottle aging.  

If the beer is finished fermenting, my advice is to bottle it.  Is the
specific gravity where you expected it?  If it is, it seems pointless
to keep it in the fermenter an longer.

Chuck Ferguson             Harris Government Information Systems Division
(407) 984-6010             MS: W1/7732  PO Box 98000  Melbourne, FL 32902
Internet:                  ferguson%cobra at trantor.harris-atd.com
Usenet:                    uunet!x102a!x102c!ferguson

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Date: Wed, 19 Jul 89 09:25:47 PDT
From: polstra!jdp at uunet.UU.NET (John D. Polstra)
Subject: Re: Lager question

In HOMEBREW Digest #204, florianb at tekred.cna.tek.com asks about a lager
that fermented down very quickly:

> It was my understanding that lagers should sit in the carboy for
> at least a month.  This brew, however, looks as if it's ready to
> bottle and age.  I have noticed a quick fermentation in the past
> using Red Star lager yeast for steam beer.  The product was quite
> good however.
> 
> What would you recommend--bottling or further aging in the carboy?

Age it, definitely.  Even though the fermentation is practically
finished, the cold aging in the carboy will really make a difference.
Rough flavors will go away, and what remains will have that delicate
balance of flavors that makes a lager so good.  Also, the long cold
aging contributes to the lacy, egg-white head that is found on top of a
quality lager.  I'd say that a month is the bare minimum if you're aiming
for real quality.  I usually aim for at least 8 weeks in the
refrigerator.  By the way, aging in the bottles doesn't seem to do the
trick.  It's much better to age it in the carboy, before bottling.

I wonder why your brew fermented so fast . . . Did you start it out
warm, or did it go straight into the fridge?  Normally, I keep it at
room temperature only until the fermentation is good and active.  Then I
chill it gradually down to 45 degrees or so.  I try to rack it when the
gravity is around 1.018.  (That's for all-grain beer with an O.G. of
around 1.050.)

One final thing, sorry I can't resist:

> Using Red Star lager yeast (I know, I know), ...

Hey, Florian . . . throw out that s**t.  Buy a liquid yeast, *any*
liquid yeast.  You'll never regret it.  The complete absence of "crud"
flavors, which take months to age out when a dry yeast is used, will
blow your socks off.  Using liquid yeast is the single most effective
aid I have found for brewing high-quality beers.

-- John Polstra               jdp at polstra.UUCP
   Polstra & Co., Inc.        ...{uunet,sun}!practic!polstra!jdp
   Seattle, WA                (206) 932-6482

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Date: Wed, 19 Jul 89 12:57:45 EDT
From: ferguson%X102C at HARRIS-ATD.COM (ferguson ct 71078)
Subject: Bottling in 2 Liter Pop Bottles

It is my contention that the most labor-intensive aspect of
homebrewing (for most of us, anyway) is bottling.  Kegging was not
really an option for me because I just can't spare that much room in
my refrigerator for a keg.  

I have heard it is feasible to bottle in champagne bottles.  Some
champagne bottles have a lip on them that will accept a bottle cap and
some bottle cappers are high enough to cap a champagne bottle.
Unfortunately, I was not able to lay my hands on a suitable supply of
empty champagne bottles and I had no desire to drink sufficient
quantities of champagne to collect my own supply.

I heard of a homebrewer who bottled in 2 liter pop bottles and decided
to try it myself.  About three weeks ago I bottled my first batch in
this manner and after consuming two bottles I have concluded that the
approach works great.  The bottles are very well carbonated and are
holding pressure quite nicely.  Aside from the labor reduction, there
are several side benefits of this bottling approach that I think net
readers might be interested in:

  o  You can squeeze the plastic bottles and get a "feel" as to how
     well carbonated the brew is.  When fully carbonated, the bottle
     is as hard as a rock.

  o  2 liter bottles are as easy to clean as regular beer bottles.  I
     have one of those bottle washers that attaches to a faucett and
     has a valve on the tip (as described in a recent HB digest).  It
     works fine with 2 liter bottles because the bottle length is only
     a little longer than a 12 oz beer bottle.  Nicer yet, most pop
     bottles are clear so you can *SEE* trash in the bottles when you
     clean them.

  o  I believe the rupture strength of 2 liter plastic bottles is
     higher than for a glass bottle.  I cannot confirm this claim but
     feel confident it is true.  I have seen 2 liter pop bottles
     pressurized to about 150 psi without rupturing (don't ask how I
     know this because it involves a long and bizzare story about my
     dad and his bottle rockets).  I have no idea what the rupture
     strength of glass bottles is but I doubt it is as high.  The
     advantage to homebrewers is that you can add more priming sugar
     for better head and better carbonation retention for partially
     consumed bottles.

  o  The bigger bottle doesn't stir the yeast sediment as much when
     pouring.  The result is cleaner pours.  The transparent bottles
     allow the sediment to be more easily observed during pouring.
     Also, the yeast sediment is thicker and has a more "pastey"
     consistency and tends to cling to the bottom of the bottle
     when pouring.

Has anyone else tried bottling in 2 liter bottles that can confirm my
findings or warn of possible hazards?  Does anyone have any data on
the rupture strength of 12oz. glass beer bottles?

Chuck Ferguson             Harris Government Information Systems Division
(407) 984-6010             MS: W1/7732  PO Box 98000  Melbourne, FL 32902
Internet:                  ferguson%cobra at trantor.harris-atd.com
Usenet:                    uunet!x102a!x102c!ferguson

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Date: Wed, 19 Jul 89 10:09:22 pdt
From: Brian Atkins <atkins at hpindqa>
Subject: Wanted: Cider Clues/Recipes
Full-Name: Brian Atkins

I have been brewing extract and combined extract/grain beer
for about 3 years now and would like to try something new.

What is required for cider brewing in terms of equipment and
ingredients?  Are there any good books on the subject? Finally,
does anyone know any good recipes for Cider?

An English friend of mine says Natch is is a good cider.  Does
anyone know where Natch can be had in the greater San Jose area (as
close to Sunnyvale as possible) and/or the greater San Fransisco
area (as near Noe Valley as possible)?   Is there a homebrew recipe
for Natch like cider?

Cheers!

Brian Atkins

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Brian Atkins        atkins at hpindqa.HP.COM           (408) 447-2057
Hewlett Packard     Information Networks Division - 43LS
19420 Homestead Road, Cupertino, CA  95014

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #205, 07/20/89

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