---

   FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
        Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
        Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!

Contents:
  Correlation/Causation, Neener/neener (Russell Mast)
  Greenville Micro ("Bridges, Scott")
  Re: California Common?,  Longshot American Pale Ale, misfire ? (dipalma at sky.com (Jim Dipalma))
  removing chlorine ("Anton Verhulst")
  Flavorful Low Gravity Brews (DEBOLT BRUCE)
  Aquarium Products in my beer? (Paul Sovcik)
  Nitrogen Dispensing/Oil Barrels (Rob Moline)
  Re: What Aaron Wrote (Bob Waterfall)
  Chlorine Removal by Boiling (paa3765 at dpsc.dla.mil (Steve Adams))
  Metro Pulse/TVHC Brew Off (Barry Wertheimer)
  Esters (Bill Giffin)
  RIMS takes a bath (KennyEddy at aol.com)
  Re: Hydraulic conductivity (Gary Pelton)
  Re: esters ("Tracy Aquilla")
  Minimize O2 in headspace? ("fobbing") (Oliver Weatherbee)
  Weights & Measures ("Olson, Greger J - CI/911-2")
  Old Jack Ale (Erik Larson                     (Tel 202-622-1322                    ))
  Re: Basic variables (Dennis Cabell)
  Hopped up dogs (Sjackson at x-net.net)
  Re: Too high Alcohol level (Aaron Sepanski)
  Liquid Bread Oxygenator. Anyone use it?? ("Robert Marshall")
  Malt Mill Motor? Help! (JJBrewer at aol.com)

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 11:39:42 -0500
Subject: Correlation/Causation, Neener/neener

> From: Dave Greenlee <daveg at mail.airmail.net>
> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 07:24:14 -0500
> Subject: Basic variables

>       Being a beginning brewer who is getting ready to do an
> extract-plus-steeped-specialty-malts brew in a single-stage plastic
> fermenter at a fermentation temperature of 72-79F, should this be telling
> me something?

Not necessarily.  Most beginning brewers don't win prizes, many don't
even enter contests.  Most people who've been brewing for a few years
get the more advanced equipment and techniques as they go along.  But,
are these the source of the improvement, or do they just get better
with experience?  I think it's a bit of both.

If you can afford the finest supplies and have the time and energy to
look after every single detail for your very first batch, go for it.
I wouldn't put money on you winning BOS with your first, but maybe.

But, if you can't afford to start big, start small.  I've made good beers
in single stage plastic using extract and steeped specialty malts.  They
weren't great, just good.  And, at the time, that was good enough.

>       If I wanted to change one or more of these factors, and
> presuming that I'm currently interested only in brewing ales, how would
> you rank them in importance?

Lower fermentation temps.  Also, do a full-wort boil.  That automatically
happens with all-grain, but you can do it with extract and get a big
improvement.  (And use a chiller.)

> From: dipalma at sky.com (Jim Dipalma)
> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 96 10:56:45 EDT
> Subject: Re: yeast respire?  NOT!
>
> Also in HBD #2066, Russell Mast writes:
>
> >I think it's important to ask yourself - can you still enjoy the beer
> >despite of the defect?  If not, you are poorer for having that knowledge.
>
> Gee, I dunno Russ. I can't conceive of any situation in life where a person
> is worse off by virtue of being knowledgable.

If you use that knowledge against yourself, then your worse off.  Duh.

> Of course, some people actually
> believe ignorance is bliss, so I guess such people would not share that
> opinion.

I've never met anyone that really believes that, and if you're implying I
am, I'm just going to pretend I didn't hear that.  :-)

Seriously - the "ignorance is bliss" argument would say that if Bob enjoys
drinking goat pee as much as you enjoy drinking Sam Smith's Taddy Porter,
then Bob is better off, because goat piss is much cheaper (despite the
raised tarriffs on Mexican goats).  I don't buy that for a second.

It's a half-full/half-empty thing for me.  If I don't know much about beer,
I can drink a good beer and think it's good.  If I know a lot about beer, I
can do the same, even though I might be able to say "Hmm... too much tannin"
or "This is underhopped" or find some other fault.  Are you gonna let that
knowledge of the fault prevent you from enjoying the good things about the
beer?  If so, then you're being silly.  Just because you know something gets
better is no reason not enjoy it being good right now.

> Consider then how you would feel when you encounter a beer that's free
> of defects, a perfect example of a style.

Ahh, that's a half-full/totally-full issue, then.  If you're ignant, you
wouldn't enjoy that any more than a half-full glass (that is, a lesser beer),
but if you're knowledgable, you can enjoy it more.

> Of course, if one doesn't have enough knowledge to appreciate what's in the
> glass on such occasions, the whole, joyous experience is lost. Now who's
> the poorer??

Neener neener neener.  I'm poorer than you are.  I used to have shirt like
that, then my dad got a job.  Sorry, Jim, I don't know what's got into me.
I need to get more sleep.  Or maybe just more coffee....

Seriously, though.  Let your knowledge of beer enhance your experience with
better beers, rather than ruin your experience with lesser beers.

My brain is shifting gears like a pearl-white Fleetwood Brougham,

- -Russell Mast
copyright 1996, Richard Lyons.

Return to table of contents


From: "Bridges, Scott" <bridgess at mmsmtp.ColumbiaSC.ATTGIS.COM>
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 96 09:50:00 PDT
Subject: Greenville Micro

"Decker, Robin E." <robind at rmtgvl.rmtinc.com> writes:
>The place you visited was NOT a microbrewery!  You were in one of the THREE

>BrewPUBS in Greenville.  And since there IS also a Microbrewery in
>Greenville, I think you owe Dave Bracken, head brewer of same, a public
>apology for casting aspersions upon his product and his practices.  BTW,
>Dave started out as a homebrewer (I suspect he even owns a copy of "TCJHB")

>and he is currently producing 2 excellent beers: Caesar's Head Amber, and
>Caesar's Head Pale Ale, both available at local restaurants (e.g. Macaroni
>Grill) on tap and at Biermeisters in bottles.

I agree with this comment.  I haven't had the opportunity to try any of the
beers from Greenville brewpubs, but I have sampled Caesars Head Pale Ale at
a local watering hole here in Columbia.  It is a very nice American pale
ale.  Our club is planning a "field trip" to visit the Greenville pubs and
also Highland in Ashville.  Maybe we can even squeeze in Caesars Head (is
that the name of the brewery, or just their brand name?).

Scott


Return to table of contents


From: dipalma at sky.com (Jim Dipalma)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 96 10:44:19 EDT
Subject: Re: California Common?,  Longshot American Pale Ale, misfire ?

Hi All,

In HBD #2068, RBoland at aol.com writes:

>I've been told that Anchor Steam is the only beer brewed true to the
>California Common style.(Category 24a).  I'd like to compare some other
>beers, if any, to Anchor.  Any suggestions?  As I am in St. Louis, national
>(or close to it) distribution is required.

Anchor Brewing has trademarked the term "steam beer", so you won't find any
other commercial examples in this country with the words "steam beer" on the
label.

New England Brewing produces a beer they call "amber ale" or some such, which
is clearly pitched with the same yeast, and tastes very similar in many
ways to Anchor steam. NE Brewing uses a lot more Cascades in their version,
instead of Northern Brewer, so the hop character is somewhat different. I
don't think the beer is available in the St. Louis area, though.

*****************************************************************

Also in HBD #2068, Dave Greenlee writes:

>Being a beginning brewer who is getting ready to do an
>extract-plus-steeped-specialty-malts brew in a single-stage plastic
>fermenter at a fermentation temperature of 72-79F, should this be telling
>me something?
>      If I wanted to change one or more of these factors, and
>presuming that I'm currently interested only in brewing ales, how would
>you rank them in importance?

IMHO, fermentation temperature would be the most important of the four
factors you listed. 72-79F is a bit too warm for most ale strains, you'll
likely get some off-flavors at those temperatures. 65F is a temperature at
which many ale yeasts work well.

*****************************************************************

Also in HBD #2068, John Taylor asks:

>Has anyone used gelatin to clear beer.

>How?

Use Knox brand unflavored gelatin. Boil a cup or so of water in a small
covered pot for a few minutes to sanitize it. Remove from heat, leave the
cover on, and let it cool for 10-15 minutes. Boiling gelatin is supposed to
ruin it, though I've never tried it. After 10-15 minutes, the temperature
should be down to about 160 or so. Add about a teaspoon of gelatin and stir
with a sanitized spoon it until it's all dissolved. I sometimes have to apply
a little heat to get it to dissolve completely. Add it to the fermenter, swirl
it a bit, and put it in the fridge as close to freezing as you can get it.
Let it settle for about 3 or 4 days, after which time the beer should be nice
and bright. After the gelatin has settled and caked at the bottom, I rack the
beer into a keg.

I've tried fining with gelatin and leaving the beer at room temperature, and
it will clear, though it takes much, much longer.

*****************************************************************

Steve Alexander writes:

>The Amer. Pale Ale is from Jim Simpson(Simson?) recipe and altho it's
>a nice drinkable beer it tastes a lot more like Marzen/Octoberfest
>brewed with an ale yeast. The Vienna or Munich malt is the dominant
>flavor, and the evidence of the four varieties of hops advertised on
>the label is minor - the label claims 31 hops units whatever that
>means - IBUs ? There isn't much hop aroma/flavor evident,

There has been some discussion on Judgenet regarding these beers, the gist
of which is that the Longshot APA is nowhere near as hoppy as the original
homebrewed entry.

>Comments ? Am I alone ?  Would a BJCP
>judge allow such a beer in the Amer Pale Ale category - Al ?

Judges don't set up categories. The brewer decides the category in which to
enter the beer. The competition organizer may decide to collapse or expand
a category based on the number of entries received, but judges have no control
over this.

That said, if I were judging APAs and had one that was malt dominated and
lacked hop character, particularly hop flavor, I'd score it in the low 20s.
Regardless of how drinkable such a beer may be, it would be way out of style.
I have heard the original homebrewed entry scored in the mid-40s.

            Cheers,
              Jim              dipalma at sky.com

Return to table of contents


From: "Anton Verhulst" <verhulst at zk3.dec.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 96 10:39:21 -0400
Subject: removing chlorine

>Miller says that much of the chlorine can be removed by boiling the water.

Boiling the water first will work.  Personally, I have an activated charcoal
filter that will do the same job with a lot less fuss.  I have it installed
under my kitchen sink and ALL cold tap water in the kitchen goes through it.
There is no change in the flow rate and the water tastes much better.  The
cost is about US$50.  I change the filter element every 3 to 4 months - about
$5.

- --Tony V.

Return to table of contents


From: DEBOLT BRUCE <bdebolt at dow.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 96 10:40:00 -0400
Subject: Flavorful Low Gravity Brews

I'm interested in the collective's wisdom on making flavorful low gravity
brews.  I'm not looking for recipes of conventional styles (e.g. bitter),
but any techniques/tips for improving the flavor of lower alcohol beer.  In
the past I've diluted at bottling with good results, but this time I want
to avoid the potential oxidation.

>From a healthy fermentation standpoint what's the lower limit on original
gravity?

Any tips from Spencer - re: the Small and Tiny competition?

Thanks,
Bruce DeBolt
Houston, TX

Return to table of contents


From: Paul Sovcik <U18183 at UICVM.UIC.EDU>
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 96 11:01:45 CDT
Subject: Aquarium Products in my beer?

 I am in the process of setting up an aquarium and I have been given a
product called Stress-Coat, which removes Chlorine from tap water.

There is also a product called Ammo-lock, which removes the dreaded
Chloramine from tap water.

 Unfortunately, there is no indication on the label as to active
ingredients (although one product does contain Aloe extract).  It looks
like only very small amounts are necessary to de-chlorinate the water.

  Anyone know what this stuff could be?  Id imagine it would be safe to
drink (hell- the fish live in it!), and I dont believe it would have an
impact upon taste - at least not any worse than chlorine.

  In other words, if I used it, is my beer ruined?

- -Paul
Paul Sovcik
"Better Brewing thru Chemistry"  (Yes, parenteral nutrition solutions CAN
                                  be used to increase FAN in extract wort!)
PJS at uic.edu

Return to table of contents


From: Rob Moline <brewer at kansas.net>
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 10:04:07 -0500
Subject: Nitrogen Dispensing/Oil Barrels

>From: darryl.davidson at uvm.edu (Darryl Davidson)

>Has anyone taken their CO2-based kegging wisdom and done
>anything to emulate nitro-dispensed Guinness?  I'm
>getting hitched and wanted to include Guinness at the
>after-wedding party.

 As I understand, US
>bars that are serving Guinness under nitrogen are doing
>a high-p.s.i. (70p.s.i.g.?) system, since that much
>pressure is needed to get the nitrogen to dissolve into
>solution (compared to the 8-12p.s.i.g. range needed for
>similar solubility with CO2).  Then, there's a mechanism
>at the tap they fiddle with that seems to be acting as
>another pressure drop to avoid Guinness geysers.  A
>home job of this would seem to involve a nitrogen tank,
>dual regulator, perhaps that pressure-valve tap... whew...
>just to get that remarkable head and taste...

At the Little Apple, I use a 27/73 % CO2/N2 blend from Linweld at 36 p.s.i.,
serving room temps are 33-35 F (remember who your customer base is, not what
you wolud personally prefer,) and a non-adjustable Guiness style faucet. The
previous head brewer tried the same set up without the faucet and it didn't
work. I would prefer to try a pressure of 48 p.s.i., but my tanks are rated
at a max pressure of 40 p.s.i. and I really don't want to tempt the fates. I
get a really nice Guiness style cascade for 2-3 minutes, then a head that
leaves a thick lace on the glass sides and a 1/4-1/2 inch layer of foam in
the bottom of the empty glass. The way Jethro Gump see's it is the percent
of Co2 in the blend, (approx 25 %) along with a pressure of 36 p.s.i. gives
the equivalent of a CO2 pressure of 9 p.s.i., a little low for my preference
but not too far off the 12 p.s.i. I think I would prefer. Jethro sez-> "Duh,
it works for me!"

I know that most of the Brewpubs round here use a nitrogen/co2 blend to push
their product, once they have carbed the beer by capping off the ferm's at
75-80 % of fermentation to build up self generated CO2. This is to prevent
the 'CO2 dance' (Jethro's terminology!) that occurs with large volumes of
beer , and the observation that CO2 pressure requires regular adjustment, up
and down, to compensate for states of over and under carb'ing, that
fluctuates depending on demand at the bar. Cessation of airstone CO2
airstone delivery, once desired CO2 levels are achieved, in favor of top of
the tank delivery of CO2, ameliorates this to a great, but not complete
degree. I use CO2 on all products except the stout. (This has other effects
as well- The inability, unless I can afford widget technology, to enter my
stout in the GABF PPBT, as they only allow cans and bottles for that judging.)

>From: Wallinger <wawa at datasync.com>
>Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 06:59:20 -0500
>Subject: Oil Barrel

>Actually, an oil barrel (abbreviated Bbl) is 42 US gallons. And oil =
>trades internationally in US dollars per barrel. By the way, is there =
>any truth to the rumor that the abbreviation Bbl came from "beer =
>barrel", since that's all that was available in Pennsylvania during the =
>mid-1800s oil boom?
>

I wondered the same thing, but have not been able to verify it with my local
I-Net friendly geologist, Dave Draper, currently basking in the California
sun, who is a volcano man. But Daniel Yergin in "The Prize," notes;

       " Success with the drill did not, however, guarantee financial
success. It meant new problems. What were Drake and Uncle Billy to do with
the flow of oil? They got hold of every whiskey barrel they could scrounge
in the area, and when the barrels were full, they built and filled several
wooden vats. Unfortunately, one night the flame from a lantern ignited the
petroleum gases, causing the entire storage area to explode and go up in
fierce flames. Meanwhile, other wells were drilled in the neighborhood, and
more rock oil became available. Supply far outran demand, and the price
plummeted. With the advent of drilling, there was no shortage of rock oil.
The only shortage now was of whiskey barrels, and they soon cost almost
twice as much as the oil inside them." The Prize, pg 28.

Rob (Jethro Gump) Moline
Little Apple Brewing Company
Manhattan, Kansas

"The more I know about Beer, the more I realize I need to know more about 
beer!"


Return to table of contents


From: Bob Waterfall <waterr at albany.net>
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 12:46:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: What Aaron Wrote

Aaron wrote:

>Am i really running the risk of thermal expansion?  Glass is a very poor
>conducter of heat, that's why stirring rods and such are made of glass in
>labs.  The glass ware for cooking is extremely thin in comparion to a
>carboy.  For my carboy to crack, there would have to be a very quick
>change in temp throughuot the glass.  Because it conducts heat /cold very
>slowly this seems unreasonable doesn't it?

The problem is exactly the poor heat conduction.  The glass in contact with
the wort will thermally expand while the parts not touching the wort will
remain cool and unexpanded.  Voila, thermal stress.  It may not break right
away, but it can weaken the glass so it will break easier later.

>When i possed my question I
>really wanted to no if any thing would happen to my beer not my equipment.

If I recall correctly, you siphon the hot wort.  That should cause less hot
side aeration than pouring it, but there is probably still some HSA going on.

Bob Waterfall <waterr at albany.net>,
Troy, NY, USA


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From: paa3765 at dpsc.dla.mil (Steve Adams)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 96 13:26:48 edt
Subject: Chlorine Removal by Boiling

Michael et al:

Chlorine should be fairly easy to boil out of water. However, if your water    

is being treated with chlorimines, and most water in the U. S. is -- the
chemical is more stable in this form and cannot be boiled away. The chlorimine 

s are intended to take care of anything that may contaminate your water from
the time it leaves the treatment plant until it hits your glass, tea cup, or
brew kettle. Your idea about pipe problems sounds right on. I used to boil my  

brewing water, which is treated with chlorimines, and the water tasted just
fine.  One way or another, it sounds as though your water was over chlorinated
at some point.  The chlorimines can also create other off-tastes and
carcinogens if they combine with organic material on the way to your tap.  My
water filter does a nice job of removing chlorine odors and tastes, but I 
can't
swear that the contraption removes the chlorimines too.  My understanding is
that the filter companies used to claim that their products removed many other
chemicals in our drinking water but that the water did not reside in the
smallish filters long enough to actually accomplish that trick.  In other
words, to remove most of the other junk in our water, your whole quantity of
brewing water would have to be in the filter for several hours at least.  I'm
no hydrologist, but to the best of my abilities, I did get this from a
hydrologist who got me into brewing in the first place.  Hope this helps to
clarify certain water issues for the list.

Steve Adams


Return to table of contents


From: Barry Wertheimer <wertheim at libra.law.utk.edu>
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 96 14:00:11 -0700
Subject: Metro Pulse/TVHC Brew Off

Metro Pulse (the local alternative weekly newspaper) and the Tennessee
Valley Homebrewers' Club are co-sponsoring their second annual sanctioned
homebrew competition in Knoxville, Tn on July 13.  Entries must be
received between June 20 and July 10.  The 1996 AHA Style Guidelines will
be followed and entrants will be accepted for all styles of beer and mead
(Styles 1 through 27; Cider and Sake/jui will not be judged).

Each entry must consist of at least 2 glass bottles (any size, shape,
color, or description; please remove all lables and black out any
printing on the bottles or caps).  The entry fee is ONLY $3 per entry.
The usual AHA forms need to be included.  Sponsored prizes will be
awarded for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place Best of Show and for 1st place in
each category (categories may be combined or split depending on number
of entries).

For more information, including shipping information, contact Jeff Colfer
at jcolfer at aol.com

Anyone interested in judging, stewarding, or helping out should also
contact Jeff.

- --Barry



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From: Bill Giffin <billg at maine.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 15:07:21 -0500
Subject: Esters

Good morning,

The discussion about the formation of esters as a result of aeration has
been interesting and a bit confusing.  To aerate or not to aerate that is
the question.  Malting and Brewing Science Vol 1 page 6 gives aeration
a one of the steps involved in brewing.  I think that I will continue to
aerate with a little splash into the carboy and here and there after the
wort has cooled.

Esters are formed by the combination of alcohol and acid.  I think that
all beer has alcohol and acid.  Would I then be correct to state that all
beer has esters?

If our beers had no esters would we be happy with them?  Even though
some of the esters are below the taste threshold, would they be missed
if they were not there?  How would beer be changed?

When the discussion talked about an increase in the level of esters if the
wort were aerated.  By how much?  If the level of esters triple yet are
still below the flavor threshold where are we?

Belgium beers and many other beers depends on the production of
esters to form their flavor profiles.

More important then worrying about the production of esters is to use
yeast that is low in ester production if that is what is desired and using
yeast that produce a lot of esters if that is what is sought.

Another thought, there are a few strains of yeast that produce fewer
esters if they are fermented warm.  One is Yeast Labs A-07 another is
Wyeast 1214.

Swings in the fermentation temperature also seem to increase the
production of esters.  I don't know why and have not found a source
for this but it seems to occur.

I will continue to aerate my worts prior to pitching the yeast.  It has
worked for me for a couple of hundred batches why stop now.

Bill


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From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 15:24:59 -0400
Subject: RIMS takes a bath

It may come as no surprise to many of you that I found Kevin McEnhill's RIMS
concept intersting.  For those without a dual-head pump, I propose the
following immersion-type RIMS heater based on the same approach.  Use a
plastic bucket with the wort flowing through a length of copper tubing or
pipe located directly above the heating element.  Control the water
temperature to be no more than your desired step temperature.  The wort heats
as it flows through the copper which is in the hot water:

      __                                     __
      ||                                     ||
      ||                                     ||
      ||                                     || <- plastic bucket
      ||                                     ||       (HLT?!)
      ||                                     ||
      ||                                     ||
      ||                                     ||
      ||                                     ||
      ||/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/||  <- water level
      ||                                     ||
     _||_        3/8" or 1/2" tubing        _||_
  --| || |---------------------------------| || |-- <- bulkhead
  --|_||_|---------------------------------|_||_|--    fittings
      ||         wort flow ---->             ||       (w/gaskets)
    __||                               O=====||==  <- temp sensor
   |  ||                                     ||
   |  ||==============================\      ||  <- electric
   |  ||==============================/      ||      element
   |__||                                     ||
      ||_____________________________________||
      |_______________________________________|


Even Al K. would agree that a short *straight* length of 3/8" or 1/2" tubing
or pipe (or whatever size is needed) would be easy to clean initially as well
as to maintain clean -- probably easier than a Morris-type chamber.
 Temperature rise across the heat exchanger can be somewhat controlled with
pump speed but since nothing hotter than your target temperature is ever in
contact with the wort, it shouldn't really matter.

Add a spigot to the above and it doubles as your HLT!  Even heats the sparge
water while you mash (well, some of it anyway).

The sensor shown regulates the water temperature.  How even will the heating
be in other places relative to the sensor location, which is near the end of
the pipe?  Who knows, but the pipe is oriented parallel to the element, which
should help.  Another sensor in the mash vessel monitors the mash temp, but
that one may not be needed for *control* purposes.  If the water bath is
maintained at the step temperature, the mash will eventually reach -- but
never exceed -- that temperature.  Proportioning control may not be necessary
either; simple on-off or maybe hysteresis-type control should be adequate as
the thermal mass of the total heating system (element + water) should absorb
much of the element's overshoot.  Of course, enough heat must be added to the
wort to exceed the losses in the plumbing and mash vessel insulation, in
order for the temperature to increase.

For details on the HLT construction, you can check out my Five-Gallon Plastic
Electric Brewery accessible from the URL below.  It should be a short jump
from the HLT to the above heat exchanger.

Any of you RIMS or thermo guys want to take pot-shots at the concept?

Ken Schwartz
KennyEddy at aol.com
http://users.aol.com/kennyeddy

Homebrewers -- sparing no expense to make everyhting as economical as
possible..

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From: Gary Pelton <gap at cs.cmu.edu>
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 13:38:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Hydraulic conductivity

Given GuyG4 at aol.com's Hydraulic conductivity equation;

> Q=KiA

> Where Q is discharge of water (in this case in liters per second)
> K=the hydraulic conductivity of the material at hand
> i=the Hydraulic gradient, or the difference in head per unit length
> A=the cross-sectional Area perpendicular to flow.

I would like to calculate what the maximum draw rate should be for
my Gott cooler. However, I can't duplicate his calculations, because
I don't know what "the difference in head per unit length" means.
I've looked up "Hydraulic Gradient" in a couple of places, but haven't
been able to find an operational definition. The one definition I
found depended upon the velocity of the flow, which didn't seem right.

How do I calculate "i" given some pipe (lauter tun) geometry?

Gary

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From: "Tracy Aquilla" <aquilla at salus.med.uvm.edu>
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 96 16:08:48 CDT
Subject: Re: esters

In Digest 2068:
Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov> wrote:
>Lots of good discussion on yeast metabolism and fermentation byproducts!
>Much more interesting than who has the cheesiest malt mill!!  ;-}
[snip]
>At the first Spirit of Belgium conference, Weihenstephan Diplom Braumeister
>Eric Toft presented some general material relating fermentation parameters
>to fermentation byproducts.  He was careful to point out these are
>generalizations and each brewery/strain must be monitored to see the
>cause and effects.

It's become increasingly apparent to me that this is a very important point.
Inter-strain variation could easily account for these conflicting reports
and it's probably inappropriate to make broad generalizations when it comes
to something as complex as ester biosynthesis in yeast.

>An increase of pitching rate can either increase or decrease esters and
>fusel alcohols.  Open fermenters also tend to increase esters.

Interesting indeed! Genotype and the physiological state of the yeast
probably play a major role as well.

><to make exquisite Scotch Ales or Doppelbocks, I submit that some
><experimentation to this effect might be well worthwhile.
>
>Maybe with Scotch ales but I would not make a doppelbock without saturation
>to 8 ppm of O2.

Neither would have I, until last winter, when I decided to just try it! My
under-aerated bock (and scotch ale) and over-aerated IPA all did quite well
in competition. Maybe it was just a fluke. I'm not suggesting that wort
aeration should be abandoned entirely, but recent experiments to this effect
have yielded surprising results in my case, and I would definitely _not_
oxygenate a bock above 8 ppm O2, particularly if it's underpitched.

>Greg wrote:
(Actually, it was Tracy, not Greg...)
[snip]

>Now it is all becoming very clear indeed! What Noonan considers "high
>pitching rate" is what most professionally trained brewers consider
>minimal pitching rate! The rule of the trade is 1 million cells/degree Plato, 

>so a 18 P doppelbock would be pitched with 18 million cells/ml.  Not what
>I consider high, but normal pitching rate.  This is probably another
>example where words can be misleading when not defined in a more rigorous
>fashion.

Minor correction: the words and numbers above (edited) were mine, NOT Greg's.

I agree, "high" is just too ambiguous. In general, 18 million cells/mL is a
high pitching rate, it's just not really that high for a bock, since bocks
should have a 'higher than normal' pitching rate. That's why I generally
prefer to use real numbers (as above).
Tracy


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From: Oliver Weatherbee <oliver at triton.cms.udel.edu>
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 16:10:31 -0400
Subject: Minimize O2 in headspace? ("fobbing")

Having just read last month's Brewing Techniques article on bottling
techniques, I was quite impressed with the impact that fobbing (foaming)
prior to capping had on minimizing the oxygen in the bottle headspace.
I understand that the article was targeted towards counterpressure
fillers but I was still curious as to the possible application of the
technique for homebrewers without such resources.

  The author fobbed the bottles by manually manipulating the fill tube
of a cp filler, could a similar result be achieved with a gravity
fed non-cp filler or is pre-evacuation neccessary to avoid oxidation.

  The author did make a statement about the necessity of such oxygen-
reducing measures for microbreweries as opposed to bottle conditioning
in which the implied understanding was that the yeast utilized the
oxygen in the headspace. If this is the case then why the popular
use among homebrewers of oxygen absorbing bottlecaps?

___________________________________________________________________
Oliver Weatherbee			Center for Remote Sensing
oliver at triton.cms.udel.edu		College of Marine Studies
 					University of Delaware	
___________________________________________________________________

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From: "Olson, Greger J - CI/911-2" <gjolson at bpa.gov>
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 96 13:43:00 PDT
Subject: Weights & Measures

FYI - Bridgeport Brewing has trademarked the Firkin measurement (I guess BBC
got all the rest).  Therefore none of you can have any Firkin beer!  ;-)

Greg Olson

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From: Erik Larson <Erik.C.E.L.Larson at MS01.DO.treas.sprint.com> (Tel 202-622-1322 )
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 12:39:47 -0400
Subject: Old Jack Ale

Fellow HBDers:

Yesterday my wife brought home a bottle of "Old Jack Ale" brewed
by Niagra Falls Brewery of Niagra Falls, Ontario, CA.

We enjoyed it very much, and I was wondering just how one would
classify it -- it obviously had a high proportion of crystal
malts, and posessed a very caramely-sweet finish with low
hopping.  If someone might be able to e-mail or post an extract
or partial extract clone recipe, I'd be very grateful.

Cheers,

Erik Larson (erik.larson at treas.sprint.com)

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From: Dennis Cabell <cabell at ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 22:02:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Basic variables

> From: Dave Greenlee <daveg at mail.airmail.net>
> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 07:24:14 -0500
> Subject: Basic variables
> snip
> 'm just not certain which would have the more important
> impact on the finished product.  I _suspect_ it would be grain vs.
> extract, but the longer conditioning made possible by the lower
> temperatures could be just as important.  In fact, instinct tells me that
> the temperature and secondary fermentation issues are, per se, less
> important than extract vs. grain because, I suspect, they just don't have
> as much effect on an extract or extract+specialties brew as they do on a
> partial mash or all-grain brew.

Actually the temperatures you refer to of 72 - 79 F is your most critical
factor.  The reason is that yeast produce off flavors at these higher temps.
At one point in my homebrewing "career", I did not pay much attention to
temperature for ales, and I was not that happy with my beers.  Then I read
(On HBD) that under no circumstances should you ferment above 72 F.
Keeping in mind that the activity of the yeast will raise wort temp a
few degrees, an ambiant temp of about 68 is about as high as you want
to go, with 64-65 being more ideal.  Paying attention to temp made
a marked difference in my brew and got me back into the hobby, which I
was about to give up.

To bring the temp down, try setting the fermenter in a tub with 3 inches
of water and wrap an old wet towel or t-shirt around it. The evaporation
from the cloth will cool the fermenter, and additional water will be
wicked up from the water in the tub.  If you have a small fan to
point at the fermenter to help evaporation, it will work even better.
some people have reported over 10 F drop using the fan method.  Note
that glass will work better than plastic in this set up because glass
conducts the heat out of the fermenter better than plastic.  Also, if
you live in a very humid climate, this is not as effective.

As far as grain vs extract goes, you can make outstanding beers with
extract and steeped specialty grains.  I just won our intra-club
competition for california common beer with an extract and steeped
grain recepie.  I would encourage you, however, to use unhopped
extract and boil your hops youself to get the bitterness.  This gives
you much better control of the hops profile.

The biggest advantage I see to all grain brewing is the greeater
degree of control of the types of malt in you beer, and the mashing
temp gives you control over body.  There are some styles that are
hard to do with extracts because you simply cannot get the right
malt mix.

Note that I am assuming that you are using good quality extracts.
They are not all created equal.  Also, make sure they are not
too old.  Try to shop at a store with a good turnover rate of
extract stock.

- --
Dennis Cabell
Sterling Heights, MI
cabell at ix.netcom.com

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From: Sjackson at x-net.net
Date: 13 Jun 1996 22:44:48 EST
Subject: Hopped up dogs

As I was readign the HBD the other night (sure was better in the
morning) and the SO was looking over my shoulder (the precursor to the
"computers and brewing, thats all you..." monologue) she noted the
article was on dogs and hops.  Being a nurse she read it more completely
and then became concerned.  "Why would you want to grow something that
could possibly hurt the dog?"  I thought, Hmmm, best I recall the
problem was AFTER the hops were used in the brew, but could the problem
exist if the dog ate the hops off the vine?  Do I need to fence my hops
vines off to protect my dog?  Should I smear steak juice on them to
attract the stray dogs?  (Just kidding!)  Really do we have to be
concerned about Fido eating raw hops?

Steve
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Brewing beer is far more exciting when it is both a hobby AND a felony!
                                     The Alabama Outlaw

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From: Aaron Sepanski <sepanska at it.uwp.edu>
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 22:57:14 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: Too high Alcohol level

I personally have had experience lowering my alcohol level with a less
agressive yeast.  Dropped about 2%.  Granted the body was a little girthy
(you guys like that word?) but isn't life just a series of trade-offs?  I
personally didn't mind the thickers body, but I'd adjust your AAU's by
about 5.  Another thing that might work is a product used in wine
making.  I'm not exactly sure what it is called (maybe potassium
sorbate?), but I know that it makes the yeast go dormant... stops them
from producing alcohol.  Whether or not that is good for beer I have no
idea/ no experience with it.  I'm but a pimple on the ass of the world of
homebrewing, but I'm just tossing out ideas.   Maybe your local
homebrew/winemaking merchant might be able to help.
Hope I helped!

- ------------------------------

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From: "Robert Marshall" <robertjm at hooked.net>
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 21:04:07 +0000
Subject: Liquid Bread Oxygenator. Anyone use it??

OK, I'm tired of getting FG that drop to only 1.020 and I'm
considering buying one of the Oxygenators from Liquid Bread.

Before I do that, is there anyone out there who can say that they've
actually used this device??

If so, how do you  sanitize the plastic tubing and oxygenation device?

Also, is it available from any of the mail order houses, or is did
everyone have to buy it directly from Liquid Bread??

Thanks in advance for any help with this quandary.



Later,

Robert Marshall
robertjm at hooked.net

homepage: http://www.hooked.net/users/robertjm
- ----------------------------------------------
"In Belgium, the magistrate has the dignity
of a prince, but by Bacchus, it is true
that the brewer is king."

          Emile Verhaeren (1855-1916)
          Flemish writer
- ------------------------------------------------

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From: JJBrewer at aol.com
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 01:49:57 -0400
Subject: Malt Mill Motor? Help!

Greetings HBDers -

In the midst of construction of my new RIMS system, I decided
to purchase a new grain mill to handle the increased amounts of
grain. NOT wanting to rekindle the mill thread, lets just say its
a high quality mill suitable for motorization. This is where my
problem begins.

The motor I bought for $15 I am unsure of how to wire the thing.
It has four wires: red (+hot?), black(-?), green (ground) and white (???).
The red and black are connected to a capacitor while the white and green
are loose. I am obviously not an electrical or motor guru, but was
hoping someone here is or at least can provide some guidance on
how to wire this, preferably with a switch, without causing my house
to burn down and that of the neighborhood. It doesnt look like I
just attach a plug to it and grind away and that capacitor makes me
awful cautious.

Pertinent Motor Data:

Manufacturer: Robbins Myers
Model:  KP-M330-B0L
115 volts
60 hertz
1050 RPM
1/15 HP
Single Phase, Continuous Duty

The capacitor has no information on it.

I appreciate any help/suggestions anyone has. I will summarize
all public and private replies.

Good Brewing,

Jamey Johns
San Ramon, CA
JJBrewer at aol.com


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