---

   FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
        Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
        Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!

Contents:
  Coors Does the Right Thing (Jack Schmidling)
  BrewDisaster ("Braam Greyling")
  State fairs/homebrew competitions (lmatt)
  What to do with Ginseng Root? (zentner at combination.com)
  Kevin's Water (KennyEddy at aol.com)
  Pumps (Schwab_Bryan at CCMAIL.ncsc.navy.mil)
  Cooking with beer (Ted Sadler/VENTANA)
  Re: Beer from wood (Bill Giffin)
  Kevin's Water Part Four (KennyEddy at aol.com)
  filtering ((John W. Carpenter))
  Identifying a contaminant ("David R. Lubar")
  Ring-Burners II (Jim Overstreet)
  Thanks ("Michel J. Brown")
  No more corny,s (THaby at swri.edu)
  Can you decoct if you don't lager? ("Michael R. Swan")
  Re: Homebrewing unlawful in Utah? ((Gary McCarthy))
  HELP: Ph Probe Restoration (Jim Overstreet)
  Re: Temperature Measurement for Homebrewing (RUSt1d?)
  HBD Size/Limits ("Houseman, David L TR")
  All wheat, all the time. (Russell Mast)
  RE: the real deal on mashing? (Steve Alexander)
  Neophyte ("McLaughlin,Bob")
  Advice for 5L mini-kegs? ("Paul Kensler (SMI)")

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net>
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 20:10:21 -0700
Subject: Coors Does the Right Thing

Time to stop bad mouthing Coors beer and start looking forward to 
vastly improved beer. 
 
We were flattered by a phone call from the Coors Purchasing Dept wherein 
they ordered a MALTMILL(TM) for the engineering department. 
 
When I asked if they were going to start experimenting with malt in 
their beer, the purchasing agent was very non-committal.  I let it pass 
and just reminded him that if they really get serious, we have a MMII 
for the really big time users. 
 
So now I have to re-word my ad from, "For the serious homebrewer or the 
small brewery" to include "mega-breweries". 
 
Gosh, it's hard to be humble. 
 
js 
 
- -- 
Visit our WEB pages:  http://dezines.com/ at your.service/jsp/ 
 
 

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From: "Braam Greyling" <acg at knersus.nanoteq.co.za>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 13:24:57 +200
Subject: BrewDisaster

Hello 
 
I wonder if you remember that I was asking questions about converting 
kegs to a brewery. Well last night I thought Ill give my setup a try. 
What a nightmare. 
First, I had to work outside in the cold because gas is too dangerous 
inside the house.When I got outside it started to get dark and I 
realised there is not enough light. Armed with a torch and a bedlamp 
I started. I poured water into the hot liquor tank. No problem. 
Started the flame and everything. The water got hot and I was feeling 
real good. When it was the correct temperature I made what I believe 
my first mistake. (would like comments on this). I threw in the 
grains into the keg with the false bottom my false bottom has got 
holes drilled into it). What I believe to have done wrong was that I 
did NOT put water in the mashtun before I threw the grains in. all 
the dry grains went sitting in each and every hole of the false 
bottom.I did not realise this before I started sparging. It was a 
nightmare to control the temperature because there was a nice air 
pocket between the liquid and the bottom of the keg. Anyway after the 
mash I started sparging. Opened the ball valve and started to wait. 
Wait, wait wait.... Nothing happened. Not a single drop. Then I 
realised what I must have done. I went into the house. Grabbed my old 
plastic two bucket sparger and poured the whole mash into this 
bucket.The sparge also got stuck here but after I have cut the grain 
into blocks with a knife it started to flow. 
My girlfriend arrived at this time. She helped me with the sparge.She 
actually gave me a few good ideas. Then I started the boil. 
While I was boiling I cleaned the fermentation buckets etc. 
No problem. My girlfriend got tired of watching me running in and 
out the house and decided to leave. Almost at the end of the boil. 
I walked with her. When I came back.Guess: right. BOILOVER. 
Luckily not too much. I cleaned up again and poured the wort into the 
two fermentation buckets. I dont have a chiller yet. I put the 
two buckets into the swimming pool to cool. I also started a yeast 
starter here sometime. It did not start.Well I thought so.I use an 
old plastic bottle that can take enormous pressure. Because I 
only have two bubblers I must open and close the bottle to release 
CO2. Then I carried my buckets into the house. It was not ready for 
the yeast (too hot).My dog sniffed around and decided to take 
ownership of one of the buckets. Luckily I caught him before he could 
mark it. At that time I decided that the starter is dead. I closed 
the bottle and got some other yeast which I placed next to the 
buckets.I went to sleep. This morning I got up late because I went to 
sleep 1:30. I completely forgot about the yeast until I had to go. 
I rushed into the room with the wort. The dead starter got alive 
during the night. The bottle looked like a balloon. I realised I 
could use this yeast. Carefully I opened the bottle. PSSSSSST. 
Next moment I was spraying the whole room with the starter. 
My clothes and everything was full of yeast. Luckily I got about 50% 
into the fermentation vessels. I had to put on new clothes after 
this. When I rushed into my bedroom (I was VERY late by now) 
I had a glimpse of my brewing book. The JOY of homebrewing. 
It made me think. 
Thought I would share this with you. 
Was it wrong to throw in the grain before the water into the mashtun 
I just realised I forgot to aerate the wort.Oh no. 
Next time Ill make sure to brew on a weekend when I have got time. 
Cheers 
Braam Greyling           I.C. Design Engineer 
Nanoteq (Pty) Ltd 
tel. +27 (12) 665-1338  fax +27 (12) 665-1343 
- ---- 24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case ---- 
- ----     coincidence ?????                 ---- 

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From: lmatt <lmatt at nando.net>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 07:30:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: State fairs/homebrew competitions

   The CARBOY (Cary-Apex-Raleigh Brewers of Yore) homebrew club is 
interested in promoting a homebrew competition as a part of the North 
Carolina State Fair in 1997. Premium books for all craft contests have 
already been published for 1996 and we are too late to include this in 
the 1996 fair in September. 
   My question to the collective. How many US state fairs include 
homebrew competitions as a portion of their fair? If you have 
information on how it was set up, who controls it, contact persons or 
organizations with emails/addresses/or phone numbers. Any information 
may be emailed to me and I'll post pertinent results. 
   Our club already conducts the Shamrock Open which will be held on 
March 15th, 1997 but we would like to promote our chosen craft in a 
venue where masses, especially more rural masses, would visit, ask 
questions, and join our numbers. The NC State Fair annually draws close 
to 900,000 in a 10 day event. Thanks for your help. 
 
                                             Larry Matthews 
                                             Raleigh, NC 
 

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From: zentner at combination.com
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 06:43:03 +0500
Subject: What to do with Ginseng Root?

 
Last weekend, I discovered a hidden treasure of about 300g of whole white 
ginseng root in my kitchen and remembered that I had no idea what to do 
with it.  Anyone got any ideas brewing or otherwise (send direct email 
for the otherwise) of what I can do with this and what it will do to what 
I brew? 
 
Mike Zentner 
zentner at combination.com 

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From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 08:37:07 -0400
Subject: Kevin's Water

Kevin asks: 
 
 <<Here are the questions: 
 
1) The city did not have a figure for CO3, some information I found via the 
    internet said to multiply my Alkalinity by 1.22 (if my PH was between 7 
    and 9). Is this correct, or close at least? >> 
 
It's right on if all your alkalinity comes from carbonate, which is probably 
not totally true but probably IS close enough. 
 
<<2) Is there any other info I need? >> 
 
For brewing tis is probably enough. 
 
<<3) Any suggestions on the quality of the water and it's suitability for 
various 
    styles? >> 
 
With such high alkalinity, stouts and other dark ales are about all you'll be 
able to do (if mashing).  Further, if your pH doesn't fully drop into the 
low-5's, you may need to add more calcium -- gypsum would be OK since your 
SO4 is fairly low, but CaCl2 would be good to. 
 
You Mg is pretty high which might impart a bitter taste. 
 
I think your water will make a less-than-perfect brew, but give it a whirl 
and see what *you* think. 
 
Ken Schwartz 
KennyEddy at aol.com 
http://users.aol.com/kennyeddy 
4) I plan on removing my chlorine by using a charcoal filter or through 
    boiling, what will this do to the chemistry of my water? 
 

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From: Schwab_Bryan at CCMAIL.ncsc.navy.mil
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 96 07:27:21 CDT
Subject: Pumps

 
     Hey I was discussing brewing techniques with a fellow brewer and this 
     guy informs me that an easier alternative to the "Carbonator" is from 
     a small pump that can be used with 2 - 3 liter plastic Soda bottles 
     which is purchased from stores such as kitchen supply houses.  Does 
     anyone out there know if this is true, and does anyone out there have 
     any experience with these pumps, positive or negative that they are 
     willing to share? 
 
     Thanks 
     Bryan 
 

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From: Ted Sadler/VENTANA <Ted_Sadler/VENTANA.ITP at lgate.vmedia.com>
Date: 30 Jul 96  8:54:31 EDT
Subject: Cooking with beer

Mark Garthwaite wrote: 
 
[snip] 
>The article describes a book called, "Famous Chefs Cook With Beer" by 
>W. Scott Griffiths and Christopher Finch.  (Doubleday $25).  I'm on my way 
>to the bookstore! 
[snip] 
 
If you (or anyone else reading this) came up empty at the local bookstores, try
www.amazon.com and do a search on: 
 
Famous Chefs (And Other Characters) Cook With Beer 
 
They have it for 22.50 but then there's S&H charges. Of course, while you're 
there, you can click on one of the categories below the book description and 
you will probably find some other books on beer that interest you. The S&H 
charge gets better the more books you buy. They'll also have the book to you in
less than a week which is much faster than I've ever had a bookstore get a 
special order. 
 
Insert standard disclaimer--> Not an employee, they don't pay me anything, just
a satisfied customer. 
 
Ted Sadler 
 
Strength is the ability to break a piece of chocolate into four pieces 
and only eat one piece. 
 

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From: Bill Giffin <billg at maine.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 09:09:53 -0500
Subject: Re: Beer from wood

 Good morning. 
 
>>>>Al K says: 
This may be true, but I think the article you read was wrong about several 
things.  First of all, I am willing to bet that most barrels used for beer 
or wine are uncoated.  Our first stop on the tour of Tadcaster Brewery 
(Samuel Smith's) was in the cooper's shop and the first question I asked 
was are the casks coated.  The answer was no 
<<<< 
 
Pilsner Urquell used pitch on the insides of the caskes that they used to 
condition the beer. Pitch was poured into the cask and the cask was rolled 
around the yard. 
 
So you are both correct.  Coated or uncoated is up to what you want as the 
end result. 
 
Bill 
 

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From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 09:33:56 -0400
Subject: Kevin's Water Part Four

Looks like I missed a spot: 
 
<< 4) I plan on removing my chlorine by using a charcoal filter or through 
     boiling, what will this do to the chemistry of my water?   >> 
 
I believe that, based on what's been discussed here before, the charcoal 
filter removes chlorine and organics (pesticides, etc) but leaves everything 
else pretty much intact. 
 
Boiling your water will help with the reduction of the alkalinity but since 
it's so high to begin with, it may not make that much difference. 
 
Ken Schwartz 
 KennyEddy at aol.com 
 http://users.aol.com/kennyeddy 
 

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From: jwc at durham.med.unc.edu (John W. Carpenter)
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 96 9:49:55 EDT
Subject: filtering

Charlie wrote: 
 
> From Amicon's info above, a 2 micron or even 0.2 micron filter would also 
> not seem to be a problem. However 0.2 micron sterile filtrations in 
> breweries reportedly give a thinner mouthfeel although Amicon says molecular 
> weights as high as 1,000,000 should sail through? Something doesn't gel 
> here? I will research this further unless someone has data. 
 
I agree. (SWAG to follow) Maybe some of the proteins are not globular, and 
some are rod like. It may be the filter is like a chain link fence and the 
protein is like a 8 inch broom stick. If correctly oriented it can sail 
through, but sideways it has no chance of going through. It should also be 
noted that the Amicon Tech. told me the pore size in not exactly uniform. 
Their is a range of pore sizes for each filter. They say the 100,000 MWCO 
filter should retain 90% of the proteins 100,000 or more. I suppose their 
numbers could be off a bit. The 5 micron filter I use is rated at 99.9% 
efficient, and I love the results. 
 
> At present 5 micron would seem to filter fat yeast, yeast flocs, and larger 
> haze flocs. Smaller yeast and *any* soluble protein should pass through.(As 
> John Carpenter posted) BTW, this is Fix's preferred filter pore size, he 
> likes some invisible yeast in his beer. Also, avoiding 45C-55C peptidase 
> rest, and including a 58-60C proteinase rest will maximise your available 
> MMWPs. 
> 
> The relationship between these and dextrins in contribution to mouthfeel 
> would be interesting to understand fully. 
> 
> Charlie (Brisbane, Australia) 
 
I'd be happy to understand the relationship even partly! :) 
 
Cheers, 
 
John Carpenter,  jwc at med.unc.edu 
Chapel Hill, NC 
 

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From: "David R. Lubar" <75211.2665 at CompuServe.COM>
Date: 30 Jul 96 10:13:10 EDT
Subject: Identifying a contaminant

Help.  When I started brewing, batches #2 & 3 came out of the primary with an 
unpleasant odor and aftertaste. It was a burnt taste, but not one I'd associate
with phenolics.  I quit for a while, then gave it another shot.  Batch #5 was 
bad.  The next 14 batches came out fine.  But I had to dump a yeast last month 
when the starter (stepped up twice) had the same bad odor and taste. Now, most 
of my brews are developing the same problem after a month or two in the bottle.
There is no sign of bacteria -- no ring around the neck, no gushing. I suspect 
a wild yeast.  My equipment can't be the sole cause, since the contaminated 
starter was never in contact with any bottling or fermenting equipment. I used 
canned wort and a bottle sanitized with Clorox solution.  My local shop owners 
couldn't shed any light on this.  Is there someone out there who might be able 
to identify the cuplrit if I sent him a bottle? I saved some of the yeast from 
the starter that went bad.  I was wondering whether I might learn something by 
making a culture.   I've just switched to Iodophor, but I don't know what else 
to do other than drink everything before it has a chance to turn bad.  I'm not 
looking forward to downing a case of three-week-old barley wine.  Thanks.  HBD 
is great.  I've been lurking for months, and learning a lot. 
 
David Lubar 75211,2665 at compuserve.com 
 

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From: Jim Overstreet <wa5dxp at worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 14:33:54 +0000
Subject: Ring-Burners II

I got several requests for more information on the Natural Gas (& propane) 
ring-burners mentioned earlier.  I looked for the brochure from the 
Homebrew Bayou, 
and have misplaced it in my junkpile here.  Perhaps someone 
who attended the Homebrew Bayou equipment display on Saturday at the 
cruise ship terminal would have the information on the large concentric 
gas burners that were on display, the ones with the self-igniters.  The 
company was located in Gonzales Louisiana I think, and they supply the 
commercial crawfish-boiling industry among others. 
 
About the ones from Home Depot, I just happen to have an un-opened package 
in my hand, and will supply the details.  They were located in the section 
where the Propane tanks, bbq grills, outdoor cooking supplies are located, 
but in a bin off to the side.  These bins contained the burners, 
replcement propane regulators, propane hoses, valves, etc.  The burners are 
wrapped in a heavy plastic bag with a twist-em on one end.  They are not 
easy to see through this plastic, so perhaps this is why HBD'ers 
are having problems locating them in the store. 
 
Burner is 6" OD, with two concentric rows of large jets.  This is a quality 
commercial-grade burner.  It is free standing, with 1-1/4" legs built in 
to the casting.  3 legs are on the outer circumfrence and the 4th is 
exactly in the middle.  The middle leg is tapped for a 5/16" bolt, so the 
unit can be swapped piece-for-piece for the little rinky-dink burners 
supplied with the Cajun-type burners, and can be mounted solely on 
that middle leg. 
 
Here is what is written on the tag on the package: 
 
            BG-12 
Low Pressure Burner & Valve 
  3/8" M Flare Connector 
 
and the scan number on the label is: 0 50904 07612 0. 
Cost was $18.00. 
 
A brass shutoff valve w/built in jet is supplied with the burner. 
You can use the right-angle brass jet supplied with your Korean burner, 
simply unscrew it and screw it into the new burner.  Keep drilling the 
supplied jet out in 1/32" increments (start at 1/16") until you get 
the flame you want.  This thing will put out a 10" blue flame if you 
need that much.  You have to be careful to match the flame size to the 
distance between the burner and the bottom of the kettle, so drilling 
out the jet to get a 12" blue flame is no good if the flame is wrapping 
around the outside of the kettle.  Tip of flame should just barely touch 
the bottom of your kettle at max flow. 
 
The supplied valve/jet was designed for propane so you have to drill it 
out for NG in order to get enough gas flow, as the pressure is much lower 
and energy content is lower also.  Since the flow is lower, this NG flame 
is more sensitive to a crosswind, and you have to shield it from any 
strong winds. 
 
Someone mentioned using the burner from a water heater.  Before you waste 
your time, the newer burners are made of stamped metal, and have planned 
obscelesence built-in.  They will rust if you look at them too hard. 
An old, commercial water heater would be ideal. 
 

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From: "Michel J. Brown" <mjbrown at teleport.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 08:13:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Thanks

Just wanted to say *thanks* to all the wonderful people who helped make my 
Atlanta Olympic time much more enjoyable! I found that the micro brew scene 
there is still in it's germinal phase, but getting along quite nicely. I 
especially liked Fado Fado, and the Atlanta Biergarten. Hope you all have 
had a great summer, filled with many brewing stories! TTYAL, God Bless, ILBCNU!
         Dr. Michel J. Brown, D.C. 
  mjbrown at teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~mjbrown 
            Brewer, Patriot, Physician, Husband, and Father 
 

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From: THaby at swri.edu
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 96 8:21:05 CDT
Subject: No more corny,s

 I was at the local fast food burger chain the other night and noticed that 
the soda syrup was packaged in one of those "plastic surrounded by cardboard" 
containers, kind of like the wine in a box container. Are corny kegs on their 
way out? Just wondering. Tim. 
 
- ------------------------------ 

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From: "Michael R. Swan" <mswan at fdic.gov>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 96 10:12:41 EDT
Subject: Can you decoct if you don't lager?

 I have been following the decoction thread with interest and have 
decided to give single decoction a try on my next Oktoberfest Ale.  My 
question is,  can you can do a decoction mash without lagering? 
 
 I know that you must be careful with a decoction mash to check on the 
pH to avoid the extraction of tannins resulting from boiling the grain. 
However, in his article, _Decoction Pros and Cons_, posted to Homebrew Digest 
#1906 on 12/11/95, A.J. deLange (ajdel at interramp.com) lists as a con: 
 
> 5. Extracts tannins as grains are boiled. 
 
 He then states: 
 
>Note that tannin extraction has been listed as a pro and a con. The good 
>news is that some of it is complexed and dropped in the decoction and that 
>as the tannins have been largely extracted in the decoctions one need not 
>be so careful about sparge temperature and pH. The bad news is that the 
>tannins have been released and long lagering is usually required for them 
>to drop out.                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 
 
 I've heard decoction mashing suggested for many beers in which you 
want a fuller malt profile, including Pale Ales (see Marc de Jonge's mini-FAQ 
posted at The Brewery).  But is it worth doing if you don't have a full 
lagering setup?  If you don't lager, aren't you just asking for astringent 
(albeit malty) beer?  Or does proper pH monitoring avoid the need for long 
lagering? 
 
Mike Swan 
Dallas, Texas 
mswan at fdic.gov 

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From: gmccarthy at sisna.com (Gary McCarthy)
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 09:50:22 -0600
Subject: Re: Homebrewing unlawful in Utah?

Kyle: 
 
In HBD 2128 Kyle Marks  kmark at tcd.net wrote: 
>I came across a link that stated in Utah you must be licensed to brew beer. 
>It also stated that homebrewers are not granted licenses. 
>Is anyone familiar with the laws in Utah pertaining to homebrewing? 
 
Even though I live in SLC I cannot claim to be familiar with the 
intricacies of Utah liquor laws!  I do know about private clubs, beer 
taverns, and when the state-run liquor store closes(at 7PM).  But the gist 
that I know is that homebrewing is illegal, under state law, in Utah.  What 
the fines got be, I don't know.  But you have to look deeper than that esp 
in Utah. 
 
In Utah, liquor sales are state-run.  I believe there is only one other 
state in which that is currently true, I think that state is back 
east.(Conn, Vermont?) I believe just recently (past 5 years) that 
Washington state went from state-run to private. 
 
Then there is the dominant religion, the Mormons, who for many reasons 
control the gov't of Utah. Mormons are supposed to follow temple dietary 
instructions(called something like that) which exclude the intake of 
caffiene, liquor, whatever else.   But, no biggie, everyone is welcome 
here. 
 
Then there is time frame in which the bulk of the liquor law was drafted 
(somewhere like 1973), which was before the federal law which allows 
homebrewers to make 100 gal of beer or wine(200 gal for couples) which was 
signed by Jimmy Carter in what 1978?   Now I assume many states in which 
brewing is illegal, that this is the case - that the laws were formed 
before 1978, and have not been amended to exclude home brewers.  So if 
there was ever a dispute, one could prob point to the federal law and say 
that allows you to brew.  But I'm not a lawyer! 
 
But there are many brew stores in Utah, esp SLC.  So if you live here, or 
if you are thinking of moving here and want to continue to brew, rest 
assured there is prob no danger or risk in brewing beer, wine or mead here. 
 
 
My opinion is that Utah liquor people are concerned about the sale and 
distribution of liquor(ie getting their ounce of flesh from the 
transaction!), not that I mash on my back porch, or that I have 10 cases of 
beer and 10 cases of wine in my garage! 
 
Gary McCarthy        I've been dazed & confused for so long 
gmccarthy at sisna.com  its not true!  Wanted a woman, never 
                                      bargained for you!    Led Zepplin 
 
 

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From: Jim Overstreet <wa5dxp at worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 17:54:20 +0000
Subject: HELP: Ph Probe Restoration

One of our club members obtained an expensive ($100.00 replacement cost) 
Cole-Parmer Ph probe, and brought it over to try on my Cole-Parmer 
Ph Tester.  We calibrated the tester with my probe, all OK.  Then, tried 
the same thing with his probe and got a constant reading of 5.3 no matter 
what solution we put it in. 
 
It appears the probe had been filled with storage solution and the liquid 
had leaked out over the years. 
 
Is there any way to rejuvinate this probe?  Any suggestions appreciated. 
 

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From: RUSt1d? <rust1d at li.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 96 15:25:09 -0700
Subject: Re: Temperature Measurement for Homebrewing

Has anyone out there used one of the meat thermometers advertised on the 
following page? They are listed for $21US shipping incl. I am thinking of 
ordering one... 
 
>If you are interested in measuring the temperature of your homebrewing, 
>please check our MEAT THERMOMETER through http://www.hk.linkage.net/~thermo 
 
- -- 
 
John Varady 
Boneyard Brewing Co. 
 
 
 

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From: "Houseman, David L TR" <DLH1 at trpo3.tr.unisys.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 96 16:19:00 EDT
Subject: HBD Size/Limits

 
I agree with Jeff and a number of the others who've replied concerning 
the size and frequency of HBD.  I'd not only vote for 1/day and a size 
limit of 45K but also a size limit on any one sumittal.  Long repeats of 
a post to which one is replying is unnecessary as is ASCII art and long 
signatures.  If more information is needed on a subject, the individual 
can always be contacted for further details.  Seems that there is 
entirely too many replies that are "me too" or beat a thread to death 
that don't convey new information, which is what I'm seeking in this 
forum to improve my knowledge and brewing.  Otherwise I skip most of the 
topics anyway.  If you really want to be read and heard, keep it short, 
too the point and provide new information to the collective.  Have a 500 
word (or whatever is practical) limit on any one post; Shawn? 
 

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From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 15:15:33 -0500
Subject: All wheat, all the time.

 
> From: BRIAN F. THUMM <THUMMBF at GWSMTP.NU.COM> 
> Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 08:23:28 -0400 
> Subject: 100% Wheat Malt Extract 
> 
> Everywhere I read, I see that weizen beers need a malt of at least 50% wheat.
> Most extracts are 60/40 (wheat/barley).  What will 100% wheat taste like? 
 
The same, only more so. 
 
> Can I make a good weizen with 100% wheat? 
 
You can make a fantastic weizen with 100% wheat.  I have in the past, using an 
incomplete crush and getting low extraction rates, made fantastic wheat beer. 
And I had no problems sparging, probably due to poor crushing. 
 
Use the Weihenstephan Wyeast or a similar pure-strain wheat yeast.  Ferment at 
lower temps (40-50) to emphasize phenols, higher (50-70) to emphasize esters, 
but expect plenty of both. (sp. 4-vinyl guiacol and isoamyl ester, aka clove 
and
banana.  4-vg doesn't taste like cloves to me, but that's a side issue.) 
 
> What about a fruit wheat (raspberry/blackberry)? 
 
Every fruited wheat I've ever had, I always thought the two flavors were 
stumbling
over one another.  I wouldn't bother. 
 
> Do I need to cut the wheat malt with some barley malt? 
 
Nah.  Expect lower extraction rates per lb, though.  Worse things happen. 
(Don't get me wrong - you can make a great wheat beer with barley, too.) 
 
>  Or just hop less? 
 
Always hop less with a real weiss beer.  And always use noble hops. 
 
Unless you're trying to make an "American Wheat", which is the ugly kid brother
of the wheat beer family. It's basically an American Ale with wheat in it, and 
you might as well hop the heck out of it and throw in fruit and whatever.  I 
think you should use barley for that.  (In fairness, there are some delicious 
American Wheats out there, but they're too often mistaken for, or mislabbeled 
as Weissbier, which is one of my favorite styles, sorry to get testy about it.)
 
- -R 

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From: Steve Alexander <stevea at clv.mcd.mot.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 16:46:04 -0400
Subject: RE: the real deal on mashing?

 
Frederick L. Pauly asks ... 
>I've read a lot in books and on the digest about mashing 
>schedules. But I still am not able to explain it to anyone. 
>We have people talking about Decoction when practically  every 
>malt available is very modified. There are all these different 
>temp. steps form 95F for acidification up to 170F to cut off the 
>enzymes. Is there a reference for mashing that will let me know 
>with this malt and for this style I need to mash like this. 
>I know some one out there must have a handle on this but I have 
>not found it. 
 
It is confusing.  I'll try to be brief. 
 
Diastatic (pale) malts come in various degrees of modification, tho' 
most widely available malts today are well modified by historic 
standards.  More modification means that the maltster has performed 
some additional degradation before kilning. 
 
Pale or diastatic malts also are kilned to various degrees.  Most 
european or american pales are kilned at fairly low temps.  British 
pale ale malt specifically is kilned at higher temps (~105C).  Higher 
temp kilning destroys most of the phytase and much of the protease & 
peptidase and also glucanases in pale-ale malt.  Probably a good 
fraction of the alpha-glucosidase is destroyed and perhaps a 20-33% of 
the beta-amylase (M&B sci pp 292).  So pale-ale malt has primarily 
alpha- and beta- amylase remaining. 
 
Getting at the goods ... 
 
Microscopic examination of barley seed reveals remnants of a sac or 
coating at the surface of starch granules.  These consist of cross 
linked (1-6, 1-3 and 1-2 and 1-1) linked saccharides and extra protein. 
Malting starts the degradation of the surface. These granules are 
further degraded in the mash by gelatinization and enzymatic 
degradation. Adding mash water liberates the soluable substances in 
the malt grist including proteins, enzymes (which are soluable 
proteins or albumins), carbohydrates, and permits greater access and 
activity of the enzymes.  More highly converted malts generally have 
more soluables and the remainder is more easily degraded and 
soluabilized.  Mash temp control serves several purposes, tho 
primarily it gelatinizes and soluabilises starch granules and controls 
the enzyme activity. 
 
Gelatinization occurs at temps in the range of 55C to 80C for most 
grain starches tho' a few require even higher temps.  Full 
gelatinization is not required for decent extraction, as discussed on 
HBD recently, normal mash times at sub-gelatinizing temps also give 
good extraction rates.  In practice infusion mashes are usually close 
to the gelatinization temp range (64C-67C for malted barley).  Step or 
controlled mashing often has rests below and above the gelatinization 
temperature. And decoction mashing provides a remarkably elegant 
solution by separating most of the starch granules in the 'thick' 
decoct from the majority of the enzymes in the 'thin' fraction, 
boiling and fully gelatinizing the granules, then returning them to 
the enzymic fraction. 
 
Temp and enzymes have the following relation.  Increasing temps cause 
greater instantaneous activity of all the enzymes, but beyond a 
certain temperature the degradation of that enzyme is the dominant 
effect.  As temps get higher - all enzymes are more active, but the 
amount of the more heat labile enzymes drops off quickly, For a given 
mashing time (and other mash conditions) there is an optimal 
temp to obtain maximal activity of that particular enzyme. 
 
There are a lot of different enzymes that are at least potentially 
involved.  Some enzymes that are potentially most active in the hi 
40's to low 50C range include peptidases(there are at least 7 
peptidases involved!), beta-glucanase, some proteases and phytase 
(responsible for the acidification and release of phytic acid that is 
poorly understood by HBers in general). Toward the higher end of the 
50C's alpha-glucosidase (important in granule degradation) and more 
proteases peak.  In the low 60C's Beta-amylase is most active, and in 
the upper 60Cs it is alpha-amylase that hits it's most active range. 
John Palmer has a very nice graph of enzyme temp and pH ranges prep'ed 
for an upcoming book of his.  I've never seen an encyclopedic review 
of all the enzymes involved, and my list here is certainly not 
complete. 
 
If you are using highly kilned pale malt,(pale-ale malt) it's nearly 
pointless to perform a sub-60C rest for enzymatic activity - virtually 
all the enzymes most active at such temps are long gone.  Hopefully 
it's unnecessary anyway as the maltster has already done this 
degradation adequately for you. Since the saccharifying enzymes are 
all that is left, and they peak from 60C to 70C this is the range for 
pale-ale malt enzyme rests. 
 
When using lightly kilned pale malts, there is a greater variety of 
enzymes present, so additional rests in the 45-60C range make sense. 
There desirability depends on the extent to which the action of the 
various enzymes is needed.  For a very well modified US 2-row pale, 
you can probably just saccharify like a pale ale malt. For less well 
modified examples additional proteolytic degradation may be 
desirable. Also when using these malts with adjuncts such as wheat 
(high protein content) or oats or flaked barley (high glucans content) 
the associated protease or glucanase enzyme rests are desirable. 
 
There is also the issue of style.  A decoction and infusion mashes 
differ in the amount and type of various malt constituents extracted, 
and on terms of oxidation & caramelization.  A decoction mashed 
english ale, or in infusion mashed german lager are often detectable 
as such and not authentic to style (tho' they may be very good beers). 
One can reasonable choose to decoction mash any malt for the taste 
effect alone.  Most malts today are sufficiently well modified to 
infusion mash without fear of a disaster. 
 
It would be nice if we as HBers could easily access a real malt 
analysis including hot&cold water extract, protein % and enzyme 
assays.  Barring that you need to 'learn' the properties of your 
malts by experience - and make educated guesses based on some 
knowledge. 
 
(Or alternatively - just do it ! ;^). 
 
Steve Alexander 

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From: "McLaughlin,Bob" <bmclaugh at msmail.physio-control.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 13:51:00 -0700
Subject: Neophyte

Hello; 
I'm a would-be (will be) brewer, but as of yet, have no experience 
making beer.  I would like to gather more information about the 
processes.  Are there any books that the group recommends? 
Also, if there is anyone in the greater Seattle area who could recommend 
a supplier, I would appreciate any leads or advice. 
 
Bob McLaughlin 
Seattle, WA. 
bmclaugh at physio-control.com 

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From: "Paul Kensler (SMI)" <pkensler at ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 16:21:08 +0000
Subject: Advice for 5L mini-kegs?

I just decided to buy a setup for those German mini-kegs (5L or 1.3 
gallons each).  I bought the all-metal tap, and the 10g CO2 
cartriges. 
 
Does anyone have any experience worth sharing with these?  Any 
advice, tips, or tricks I might be able to use?  I like the idea of 
the mini kegs, since they fit in a fridge and I'm low on space in my 
apartment. 
 
On a related note, I read in the latest Zymurgy that you can use 
nitrogen cartriges on the taps to help create that creamy Guinness 
head...  Anybody done this?  Where the heck would I buy a nitrogen 
cartridge, do grocery stores carry such things? 
 
Any/all feedback welcome! 
 
Thanks, 
Paul 
As a dreamer of dreams and a travelin' man, 
I have chalked up many a mile. 
Read dozens of books about heroes and crooks, 
And I've learned much from both of their styles. 

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