HOMEBREW Digest #2318 Monday, January 20 1997

Digest #2317 Digest #2319
		(formerly Volume 02 : Number 038)



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Contents:
  Gott Cooler Modifications (Eric Rouse)
  CO2 in Beer
  Disposible bottles
  Re: Homebrew Digest V2 #37
  hop utilization ( richard scholz )
  Leonia/Teaneck/Fort Lee, NJ, Area
  RE: Koelsch yeast
  [No Subject Provided By Sender]
  Re: Drilling Stainless Steel
  CO2 cost
  RE: Planar vs. Helical Chillers
  Re: Homebrew Digest V2 #37
  EMERGENCY
  Re:drilling stainless steel
  Force carbonation
  Recipes
  1338 European Ale cold ferment
  Re: Homebrew Digest V2 #37
  Sanitation-Air filters/40F ferment/1338 data (G. De Piro)
  Thanks for Dechutes recommendations (George De Piro)
  Oxygenation, sea salt, yeasty beer
  [No Subject Provided By Sender]
  Heineken
  RE: Pitching Quantity vs O2
  Hose Length
  Yeast, Hops, and Weather


---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 09:25:06 -0600 From: Eric Rouse <e-rouse at ti.com> Subject: Gott Cooler Modifications (Eric Rouse) Hi, Some time ago (read last year) there was some discussion regarding the modifications to Gott coolers to use them for mashing. I was wondering if anyone had directions for this. It involved removing the drain and replacing it and there was also discussion regarding insulating the top with foam. Also what is the price range for these coolers? I haven't priced them yet but plan on getting one soon. Thanks in advance. Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 97 12:59:45 -0500 From: Michael Gerholdt <gerholdt at ait.fredonia.edu> Subject: CO2 in Beer - -- [ From: Michael Gerholdt * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- Dave, While bowing to your knowledge which certainly is greater than mine in certain areas, this puzzles me: >> Why prime a keg at all. Forced carbonation should be sufficient and >>undetectable from primed carbonation. >Well, I and a lot of other people believe that natural carbonation produces a >finer bead in the head and a better mouth feel. That's why I do it. David, once CO2 is actually and fully suspended in the beer then, if conditions are the same, there should be absolutely no difference in how the CO2 comes out of suspension based on how it got in there. The idea that force carbonation produces "fish eye" bubbles and natural carbonation produces a finer bead ... this can only be the case, can't it, if the force carbonating homebrewer doesn't get the CO2 fully into suspension (dispenses before it's really ready)? If not, then how do you theoretically support the notion that all CO2 isn't equal, other things being equal? What info does CO2 have that lets it know it is either forced or primer-produced? I think it's a momily. Keith wrote: >I apologize if I offended anyone. I wasn't offended, Keith. Just thought the labeling of other homebrewers anal retentive based on your opinion about the non-necessity of filtering air was 'unwelcome and unnecessary.' Especially so when you now are willing to be persuaded that filtering air might be beneficial. >Actually, I don't even feel as strongly about filters as it sounded. I purposely >skewed the tone of my note to sound a little opinionated just to stir things up a >little and make for an interesting conversation. Everyone has his/her own methods. Disingenuousness is an interesting choice; sort of devil's advocate sort of approach, hmm? >I am enjoying the conversation regarding air filters and anal retentive (AR ) brewing >methods in general. The AR bit is old before it starts; but I agree on the filtering discussion. It's helpful, and it is good to learn that it's as easy and cheap as using some sterile cotton and a plastic syringe or two. Nothing to AR about that. I used an aquarium pump once, no filtering, and I had an infected batch that time around. Might not have been from the air. Might have been some stuff living in the used pump from a home that has animals running around. Or something else. Don't know. I haven't pumped air since. Working instead on keeping a good steady supply of adequate amounts of yeast on hand. Michael Gerholdt - -- Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 15:02:18 -0500 (EST) From: ZEKESTANIS at aol.com Subject: Disposible bottles Howdy Homwbrewers, I was wondering if anybody has any experience using 2 liter dispoible bottles for bottleing your beer. I would be bottle conditioning ( as opposed to using CO2) I would like to take my homebrew with me, but don't want to risk boken bottles. Any Ideas? Thanks Matthew Stanis Milw. WI God Bless The Packers. Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 15:02:27 -0600 From: "Gerald S. Welker" <gswelker at earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest V2 #37 - ------------44831A9A77542 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Jeremy Bergsman flamed: > First off, I think it may be confusing to label Trappist monasteries...[yadda yadda yadda] The facts as I know them: seen on video (Beer Hunter, I believe) were open, ground level windows in a Belgian brewery (could have been abbey, monastery, or brothel, who knows or cares) wafting yeast in off the breeze into open vats of wort. The _point_ is that air contains lots of living things, not all of them bad. you got pretty wrapped around the axle there, my friend. Somebody somewhere in Belgium still uses open air fermentation. > This is a long-winded way to say just filter it...As discussed many times here in the past Jeremy, it takes more than filtering. Once you remove the particles, you have to keep new ones out. Hence isolating the people, putting positive pressure in the room so the breezes are always out, etc. Again, the point...it's very hard, albeit possible to sanitize air. Indeed, as you point out, for our purposes most air is probably sanitary enough to cool and oxygenate, and for the anal, get a fliter. > This is a long-winded way to say... Am I the kettle or the pot? > (come on guys, search the archives first when you have a question: My post was a response to a question. If I had time to search archives, I would only be qualified to operate on lawyers (they only have two organs, a mouth and an anus, and they're interchangeable). - --Scott Welker, brewer, MD "Capital punishment is our society's recognition of the sanctity of human life." Sen. Orrin Hatch, (R) Utah - ------------44831A9A77542 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii <HTML><BODY> <DT>&nbsp;Jeremy Bergsman flamed:</DT> <DT>&nbsp;</DT> <DT>&gt; First off, I think it may be confusing to label Trappist monasteries...[yadda yadda yadda]</DT> <DT>&nbsp;</DT> <DT>The facts as I know them: seen on video (Beer Hunter, I believe) were open, ground level windows in a Belgian brewery (could have been abbey, monastery, or brothel, who knows or cares) wafting yeast in off the breeze into open vats of wort. &nbsp;The _point_ is that air contains lots of living things, not all of them bad.&nbsp; you got pretty wrapped around the axle there, my friend.&nbsp; <I>Somebody somewhere in Belgium</I> still uses open air fermentation.</DT> <DT><BR> &gt; This is a long-winded way to say just filter it...As discussed many times here in the past</DT> <DT>&nbsp;</DT> <DT>Jeremy, it takes more than filtering.&nbsp; Once you remove the particles, you have to keep new ones out.&nbsp; Hence isolating the people, putting positive pressure in the room so the breezes are always out, etc.&nbsp; Again, the point...it's very hard, albeit possible to sanitize air.&nbsp; Indeed, as you point out, <I>for our purposes</I> most air is probably sanitary enough to cool and oxygenate, and for the anal, get a fliter.</DT> <DT>&nbsp;</DT> <DT>&gt; This is a long-winded way to say...</DT> <DT>&nbsp;</DT> <DT>Am I the kettle or the pot?</DT> <DT>&nbsp;</DT> <DT><BR> &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; (come on guys, search the archives first when you have a question:</DT> <DT>&nbsp;</DT> <DT>My post was a <I>response </I>to a question.&nbsp; If I had time to search archives, I would only be qualified to operate on lawyers (they only have two organs, a mouth and an anus, and they're interchangeable).</DT> <DT>&nbsp;</DT> <DT>--Scott Welker, brewer, MD</DT> <DT>&nbsp;</DT> <DT>&quot;Capital punishment is our society's recognition of the sanctity of human life.&quot;</DT> <DT>Sen. Orrin Hatch, (R) Utah</DT> </BODY> </HTML> - ------------44831A9A77542-- Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 15:05:31 -0500 (EST) From: Rscholz at aol.com Subject: hop utilization ( richard scholz ) hi all, I'm trying to calabrate my brewing software (HBRCP by J. Varady). I keep making ales that are on the very hoppy end of the scale but but continue to get comments about how they are not bitter enough. Does anyone have an idea about the correct percent usage for hops ( a function or table of time/ % usage ) I'm using ~30% for 60 min down to 5% for 0 min additions. All help welcome. richard l scholz bklyn ny Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 16:12:00 -0600 From: DD <dunn at tilc.com> Subject: Leonia/Teaneck/Fort Lee, NJ, Area - --MimeMultipartBoundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Will be visiting relatives in Leonia, NJ, and was wondering if there is a brewpub, microbrewry and/or brew supply store close by? Any recommendations? WDunn - --MimeMultipartBoundary-- Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 97 01:06 +0100 From: Eckard Witte <EWitte at t-online.de> Subject: RE: Koelsch yeast Hello Dave, first: I don't brew myself - I tried it once, but as here (Germany) beer is cheap and good, it's not worth while. I make fruit-wines, mead, liqueurs and things like that. I live nearby Cologne, and Koelsch is the beer I usually drink. It's a protected name; only breweries in or nearby Cologne are allowed to call their beer Koelsch, we've got about 20 breweries in Cologne. In fact, I've just opened a bottle of "Frueh-Koelsch", one of the best! I've visited some of the Cologne breweries. In general, there are two types of yeast: "obergaerig" (saccharomyces cerevesiae) and "untergaerig" (saccharomyces carlsbergensis), with different types in both of them. I didn't find "obergaerig" and "untergaerig" in the dictionary, sorry, it means something like "upper fermentation" and "lower fermantation". There are two big differences between both types: 1. Temperature of fermentation 2. Wether the yeast goes on top or to the bottom during fermentation. 1. obergaerige yeast works best from 18 to 24 C(about 70F?), untergaerige from 6 to 10 C( up to 50F?). 2. obergaerige yeast goes to the top of the liquid and is taken away from there (commercial breweries don't wait till it dies and sinks to the bottom, 'cause that would give a bad taste), while the untergaerige goes to the bottom. In the past, most of german beer was obergaerig, only in winter they brewed untergaerig - except in Bavaria: they put lots of ice into their cellars in the winter, so it was cool all the year. Last century, Mr. Linde invented the refrigerator (first tried it in the Munich brewerie of Mr. Sedlmayr in 1873), and since that time, untergaerige beers became more familiar in germany. Now, most of the beer here is untergaerig (pils, export, bock etc.), only some regional specialities are obergaerig (koelsch in Cologne, alt in duesseldorf, weizen in Bavaria, weisse in Berlin). Koelsch is a light beer, it's got about 4,8 % alcohol. You can buy it in bottles, but it's best in kegs (10, 20 or 50 liters). If you buy it in kegs (for a party, f.e.), you normally don't use any CO2 equipment or anything like that - you just have to empty it the same evening, it's very familiar here! If you ever happen to come to Cologne, tell me early enough, I might show you some really nice pubs! Eckard Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 97 19:17 CST From: postmaster at swpe06.sw.lucent.com Subject: [No Subject Provided By Sender] >From postmaster Sun Jan 19 19:17:18 1997 Subject: smtp mail failed Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2514 Your mail to swen01.lucent.com is undeliverable. - ---------- diagnosis ---------- <<< 554 Transaction failed -- I/O error - ---------- unsent mail ---------- >From uucp Sun Jan 19 19:17 CST 1997 remote from swpe06 >From homebrew Sun Jan 19 09:26:01 0700 1997 remote from dionysus.aob.org Received: from dionysus.aob.org by swpe06.sw.lucent.com; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 19:17 CST Received: by ihgp0.ih.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-L sol2) id TAA10520; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 19:25:08 -0600 Received: from ihig1.firewall.lucent.com by ihgp0.ih.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-L sol2) id TAA10515; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 19:25:04 -0600 Received: by ihig1.firewall.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-L sol2) id TAA09380; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 19:29:26 -0600 Received: by ihgw2.lucent.com; Sun Jan 19 19:23 CST 1997 Received: (from dionysus at localhost) by dionysus.aob.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA05389 for homebrew-digest-outgoing; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 09:26:01 -0700 (MST) Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 09:26:01 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199701191626.JAA05389 at dionysus.aob.org> X-Authentication-Warning: dionysus.aob.org: dionysus set sender to owner-homebrew-digest at dionysus.aob.org using -f From: owner-homebrew-digest at dionysus.aob.org (Homebrew Digest) To: homebrew-digest at dionysus.aob.org Subject: Homebrew Digest V2 #37 Reply-To: homebrew at dionysus.aob.org Sender: owner-homebrew-digest at dionysus.aob.org Errors-To: owner-homebrew-digest at dionysus.aob.org Precedence: bulk Content-Type: text Content-Length: 43694 Homebrew Digest Sunday, January 19 1997 Volume 02 : Number 037 Procedures: To send a message to the digest, send it to <homebrew at aob.org> To subscribe to the digest, send a message to <majordomo at aob.org> with the text "subscribe homebrew-digest" in the body. To unsubscribe from the digest, send a message to <majordomo at aob.org> with the text "unsubscribe homebrew-digest <your email address>" in the body. If you are having difficulty unsubscribing, send a message to <majordomo at aob.org> with the text "who homebrew-digest" in the body. This will return a list of all subscribers. Search this list for your email address, and include it, exactly as it appears (including any other text) in your unsubscribe message. If you are still having difficulty, send a message to <admin at softsolut.com> with a description of your message, and we shall attempt to resolve the problem. 1 corn grits and flaked maize; Storing Flaked Barley 2 Re: Pitching Quantity vs O2 (Michael Gerholdt) 3 drilling stainless steel (Dan Ritter) Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 21:39:27 +0000 From: Mike Kidulich <mjkid at ix23.ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Drilling Stainless Steel Dan, >I will appeciate anyone who can advise me about drilling stainless steel. >I am ready to install an Easymasher in my 10 gal. Vollrath SS pot. The >technical experts at my local hardware store advise me to buy a >cobalt-tipped drill ($12 for a 3/8") and spray WD40 as I drill. Drilling >this pot will make me very nervous because I'll never be able to afford >another one! I want to do it right the FIRST time. In reference to drilling stainless, the most important things to remember are 1) use a good drill bit (I used just a good quality hardened steel bit) 2) keep the bit well lubed (I used Kool Tool, a special synthetic cutting fluid, but any decent oil should be ok, and 3) keep constant pressure on the work! If you back off the bit, you can work-harden the surface, making it even harder to cut. A drill press, with an assistant, is the best way to do it. If no drill press is available, an assistant and steady pressure on the drill should work. Also, measure twice, cut once! Make absolutely certain the hole is in the right place, as you only get one shot. I drilled my Duraware 10 gal. kettle, and it was a traumatic experience for sure. Came out fine, but just be sure to do it right. BTW, the drilling advice came from the guy who runs the model shop where I work, and it worked for me. Metalurgists may have other views. Mike Kidulich mjkid at ix.netcom.com mjk at rfc.comm.harris.com DNRC Minister of Home Brewing, Relaxation, and Really Cool Toys Holder of Previous Knowledge O- Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 97 22:10:48 EST From: "John W. Carpenter" <jwc at med.unc.edu> Subject: CO2 cost Dave writes: > keeps the cost of CO2 to practically zip. Carbonation with tank CO2 would > cost about $2 -3 per 5 gallons, based on what I pay for a small cylinder, > were I to fully carbonate a keg with this CO2. I don't know what you have to pay for CO2, but if I had to pay that much, I'd only be able to carbonate about 5 kegs per 5 pound CO2 tank. I think the last time I refilled my tank it was about $8 or so. I consider CO2 cheap and use it liberally for many things.... To flush carboys and kegs, to push iodophor from one keg to another, to push some of my beers through a filter, and whatever else I feel like using it for. Oh, of course carbonating my keg beer and dispensing it. Just my CO2 cents. John Carpenter, jwc at med.unc.edu Chapel Hill, NC - USA Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 21:13:02 -0600 (CST) From: Cuchulain Libby <hogan at connecti.com> Subject: RE: Planar vs. Helical Chillers Not fluent in the thermal currents in pots but wouldn't a conical chiller be a nice compromise? Those in Australia would simply invert it from whichever orientation we would use. BTW, Monday marks my first foray into all-grain. It'll be, I fervently hope, an IPA. Cuchulain hogan at connecti.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 20:01:23 -0800 From: Don Anderson <donald.a at ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest V2 #37 Finally something on this list that I'm comfortable enough with to give some advice. Most definately get the 3/8" Cobalt drill bit and also get one or two smaller bits 1/8" or 3/16" would be good sizes. First step is to figure out where you want your hole then lightly center punch it. Hit the punch just hard enough to put a small dimple in the steel. The second step is to drill a hole with your small drill bit using the center punch dimple as a place to start (this will keep your drill bit from "walking")and you can use WD-40 or clean motor oil as a lube. Thirdly use the 3/8" bit on the smaller hole. Last step, using new sandpaper carefully remove any sharp edges of the hole and then clean the pot and install your new easy masher. When drilling SS use a heavy feed and little speed (press down hard and turn the drill bit at a slow speed). Hope this helps - -Don United Airlines, aircraft Sheetmetal mechanic. "pilots bend 'em, we mend 'em" > From: Sharon/Dan Ritter <ritter at camasnet.com> > Subject: drilling stainless steel (Dan Ritter) > > I will appeciate anyone who can advise me about drilling stainless steel. > I am ready to install an Easymasher in my 10 gal. Vollrath SS pot. The > technical experts at my local hardware store advise me to buy a > cobalt-tipped drill ($12 for a 3/8") and spray WD40 as I drill. Drilling > this pot will make me very nervous because I'll never be able to afford > another one! I want to do it right the FIRST time. > > Dan Ritter <ritter at camasnet.com> > Ritter's MAMMOTH Brewery > Grangeville, Idaho > Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 19:04:41 -0600 From: Cuchulain Libby <hogan at connecti.com> Subject: EMERGENCY HELP, I threw 2 Cups fresh wort on top of a slurry-maybe 1 1/2 cups? in a 1.5liter wine bottle tonight in prep. for tomorrow's brewday it's maybe 2/3 EMPTY and it is now blowing out the airlock quite nastily. Do I leave it and assume positive pressure will keep out bugs? Is this a sign of infection? Mutation? Can I pitch this? EEK! Cuchulain anxiously awaiting the Zen Masters. P.S. I have no back up yeast Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 19:01:02 +1500 From: Gavin Scarman <scarman at satech.net.au> Subject: Re:drilling stainless steel >I will appeciate anyone who can advise me about drilling stainless steel. >I am ready to install an Easymasher in my 10 gal. Vollrath SS pot. The >technical experts at my local hardware store advise me to buy a >cobalt-tipped drill ($12 for a 3/8") and spray WD40 as I drill. Drilling >this pot will make me very nervous because I'll never be able to afford >another one! They have given you reasonably good advice. However, I would do it as a 2 step process by drilling a smaller 'pilot' hole first. This will do 2 things of benefit; first it will stop the large drill from skidding on the smooth, hard surface, and second, a well chosen pilot hole size will allow the bigger drill's cutting edges immediate contact with the steel thus reducing friction. I'd suggest around 3/16" should be right but I'm used to working in metric. To get it more accurate, look at the 3/8" drill, note the point is not really a circular point but is an 'edge', your pilot hole should be just slightly larger than the 'point'. (If you're confused I'll send you a drawing). Also, the main benefit of a cobalt tipped drill is less friction thus it keeps it's edge longer. - ---------------------------------- http://www.satech.net.au/~scarman mailto:scarman at satech.net.au - ---------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 97 12:26:00 UT From: Jim Daley <jgdaley at msn.com> Subject: Force carbonation Two quick questions: 1. If I want to force carbonate my beer at 30 PSI, how long would it take at 45 degrees F. ? 35 degrees? 2. Once its carbonated, and I wanted to leave it hooked up for dispensing, I assume the carbonation would slowly go down if my dispensing pressure was 4 - 6 psi (thats all I need). Is there any solution other than relasing pressure and then re-pressurizing every time I want a beer (say once every few days)? Thanks for the info. Jim Albany, NY Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 06:41:52 -0500 From: Mark_Snyder at WMX.COM Subject: Recipes Mark Snyder 01-20-97 06:41 AM Anyone out there have a good Oktoberfest style beer recipe? I'm fairly new at this but have progressed past wanting to use kits to brew with. I don't have lagering capabilities as of yet so will be aging at the low end of the ale spectrum. I can also secondary ferment (both in glass) and have chilling capabilities. I prefer an extract recipe since I don't have mashing capabilities either. I do intend to use yeast obtained from my preferred beer at the local microbrewery. It appears that most of you have been doing this for years and maybe I'm getting ahead of myself, but I wish to quickly progress into better than average beers, and not the typical Heineken, etc. clone. Thanks for the input. You can respond directly to Mark_Snyder at wmx.com. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 07:49:03 -0500 From: Dave Whitman <dwhitman at rohmhaas.com> Subject: 1338 European Ale cold ferment A few HBD's back, George De Piro and I exchanged initial observations of apparent good fermentation when using Wyeast #1338 at 56F, well below the recommended fermentation temperature. I racked to secondary yesterday, and am now questioning how well things went. OG for the wort was 48. I pitched an active 350 ml starter, and the batch was aerated with 2 x 15 second blasts of O2 through a 2 micron stone. The batch formed a nice krausen and had settled down after about 5 days. There was still a lot of yeast in suspension (only about 3/4" on the bottom), but no obvious airlock activity or krausen. I racked on day 7, and the SG was 20 (expected 14). Looks like the yeast may have pooped out due to the low temperature. I have moved the secondary up from the basement to get a 65F ambient. The beer began to fall bright overnight at this temperature, so this morning I swirled to rouse the yeast and got some outgassing through the airlock. I suspect the outgassing is just CO2 that is no longer soluble since the temperature went up. Any suggestions on what to do if I can't get the SG down where I expect? Should I pick some fresh yeast? Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:52:40 -0500 (EST) From: Joe Rolfe <onbc at shore.net> Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest V2 #37 >Subject: Re: Pitching Quantity vs O2 (Michael Gerholdt) > >On Fri, 17 Jan 97 12:12:44 -0500 Michael Gerholdt wrote: >> >> Actual truth: If you pitch 'adequate quantities of healthy yeast' there is >> no need whatsoever to oxygenate the wort. >> >> Practical truth: A 'work-around' of sorts to pitching adequate quantities of >> healthy yeast is oxygenating the wort, which compensates for inadequate >> amounts of yeast. Since most homebrewers do not pitch adequate quantities of >> healthy yeast, oxygenating is in order. actual truth - who knows - do what works best for you in your brewery. i for one do not know of any brewery (commercial) that does not aerate in some fashion. and speaking from my own experiences (over 500 brews in the past 4.5 years - commercially), i can atest to M.B. Raines statements in the latter part of the Sunday 19th HBD.. low air even with nice pitching qty, resulted in (with our house yeast and wort composition) long ferments (over 4 to 5 days for ale at reasonably normal ale temps of 68F - time was closer to 7 to 10 days actually) and loss of attenuation by several degrees Plato - not good. these were considered defective fermentations and the yeast was sewered and not repitched. on a well aerated wort with similar pitch - 3 days - all done. harvest on day 7 and repitch right away....the yeast was healthy for over 100 generations (about a year). some yeast need tons of air (ringwood for example amoungst some other fine british true top fermenters) they recirc wort for a long period of time to keep it in suspension and aerate. others do not need as much or so i have heard. but it comes down to one thing is the beer drinkable? if you can make good drinkable beer without aeration - do it but.....saying that there is no need to aerate/oxygenate - i doubt this aspect... that is like saying the water has nothing to do with making beer or pH does not matter. for some it does not - granted - but it is considered good brewing practice to monitor both (in addition to about 1000 other things also). maybe all of us commercial brewers are wrong - i doubt that too....but i am open to hearing from your sources.... good brewing to all joe Joe Rolfe onbc at shore.net Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 09:03:03 -0800 From: George De Piro <George_De_Piro at berlex.com> Subject: Sanitation-Air filters/40F ferment/1338 data (G. De Piro) Hi, A lot has been said about the necessity of air filtration and the degree of analness required for good sanitation. I'd like to throw in my .02. First, on air filtration: I use an aquarium pump to aerate my worts. I filter the air, but haven't always. I haven't had a problem either way. I filter now because it really is easy, and why beg the lightening to strike? On sanitation: I feel that people can go too far (you don't really need to wear masks and gloves when pitching your primary), but I think that many people don't go far enough. I believe it is especially dangerous for beginners to read about the relatively maverick practices of some advanced brewers. I judged a competition this past weekend. Almost every entry (that I judged) was infected to some degree! There are different levels of infection, and they can cause different problems. At best, an unwanted microbe will impart slight off qualities that may fade as the open glass sits on your table. A beginner may not even notice it. At worst, the beer will hit the ceiling when it is opened and taste/smell horrible. There is a wide range of possibilities between these extremes. My point is that we all need to be very careful. One reason that an advanced brewer may get away with slacking off a bit (like not filtering air) is that he/she is usually pitching a lot of healthy yeast, aerates the wort, and has been very careful when stepping the yeast up. This TREMENDOUSLY reduces the risk of other bugs getting a chance to mar your wort. Beginners hardly ever pitch or aerate adequately, and therefore must be VERY careful about sanitation. -------------------- Dckdog at aol.com asks why his fermenter is still. He pitched rehydrated "lager" yeast and has the fermenter at 40F (4.4C). First, I was under the impression that only ale yeasts survive the freeze-drying process and therefore true lager yeasts are not available in this form (this may be an outdated notion, though. Anybody out there know better?). Secondly, 40F is a bit too cold, even for a true lager yeast. 45-50F is better, and if it is really an ale yeast it should be over 55F, probably even in the 60's. Also, you rehydrated the pack at 100F (~37.5C). Did you then pitch that into 40F wort? You could shock the yeast doing that. Perhaps warm the wort and wait, or warm it and pitch again. ---------------------- Just another observation about Wyeast 1338 (European ale). My fermenters hit 49F (9.4C) and the yeast is STILL going (although slower than at 56F (13.3C). I hope the weather warms up, I think I'm really pushing the envelope on this one... Have fun! George De Piro Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 09:07:08 -0800 From: George De Piro <George_De_Piro at berlex.com> Subject: Thanks for Dechutes recommendations (George De Piro) Hi all, I just wanted to give a quick "thanks" to the MANY of you that helped steer me towards the newer Deschutes products. I was trying to respond personally to everyone, but there have just been too many of you! Have fun! George De Piro (Nyack, NY) Return to table of contents
Date: 20 Jan 97 09:53:34 EST From: "David R. Burley" <103164.3202 at CompuServe.COM> Subject: Oxygenation, sea salt, yeasty beer Brewsters: Maribeth makes an excellent couple of points about oxygenation, which I will paraphrase and modify a little. 1) Under-pitching followed by "excessive" yeast growth can lead to ester formation under certain circumstances with certain yeast. 2) Repeated use of yeast in sequential batches with no oxygenation results in a degrading performance (read high FG amongst others) in successive batches. This comment is substantiated by Kirin, as Maribeth says, and by M&BS in a quote I provided some months ago. In my opinion it may be that 1) is related to 2). I accept these facts, but I have always been puzzled by the stoichiometry of it all. How can such a small amount of oxygen, which, in the presence of an active yeast colony, lasts only a few minutes, have such a large effect on the outcome of the yeast colony and subsequent batches. Anybody? - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Rod Schlabach asks: > > Can anyone out there comment on the use of "sea salt". My only comment is that I have read that iodized salt is good for your thyroid but bad for yeasts. I don't know if this is true or not about its effect on yeast, not having seen a professional report. I would guess sea salt would have a higher amount of iodide than a more purified product like Morton's or such. When I use salt for beer I use Non-iodized Morton's or Diamond Crystal salt. - --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Keith Flick, a newcomer to brewing says: > I opened some of my first batch of beer Friday night and it acted a little > strange. The beer is clear in the bottle and when I open it and pour into > a glass it is still clear. BUT within 45 seconds it will have turned very > murky. I have never seen this unless you are pouring ALL of the beer out of the bottle and pouring the yeast on the bottom of the bottle into the glass. In pouring bottle conditioned beer ( which is what you have), if you want clear beer, pour slowly, steadily and leave a small quantity of beer in the bottle. For the first few bottles put a piece of white paper on the table under where you are pouring so you can see as the yeast cloud comes to the lip of the bottle and stop pouring. Some people like to drink the yeast in their beer, especially German wheat beer (mit Hefe) drinkers, and some British Whitbread White Label ( a discontinued bottle conditioned British Ale) drinkers of old used to swirl the bottle at the end. Live yeast causes gastric distress for some people, but brewer's yeast ( which has been steam treated) is a valuable source of B vitamins as any vitamin bottle will indicate. - ------------------------------------------------------------- Keep on brewin' Dave Burley Kinnelon, NJ 07405 103164.3202 at compuserve.com Voice e-mail OK Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 10:06:00 -0500 From: Gary Hellman <Gary.Hellman at disclosure.com> Subject: [No Subject Provided By Sender] subscribe homebrew-digest Return to table of contents
Date: 17 Jan 97 15:06:03 EDT From: Bob Bessette/PicTel <Bob_Bessette at smtpnotes.pictel.com> Subject: Heineken John Penn wrote: >Date: 15 Jan 1997 13:04:57 -0500 >From: John Penn <john_penn at spacemail.jhuapl.edu> >Subject: Re: Heineken Recipe > Subject: Time:1:53 PM > OFFICE MEMO Re>Heineken Recipe Date:1/15/97 > I don't know if there's a Heineken recipe in the Cat's Meow, an excellent >source for recipes, but be sure to skunk that beer to get the true Heineken >smell/flavor. Not sure how much sunlight you'll need, probably calls for some >experimentation. Try leaving various clear or green bottles in sunlight until >you zero in on it. > John Penn John, Up until I went to Holland about a month ago and stayed about 2 miles from the Heineken brewery I would've agreed with you about Heineken being skunk beer. But after having tried it in Holland I would have to say that it is much different there. It's like comparing Guiness here to Guiness in Ireland. You can't really compare the two. But good point... Any Heineken I have tried here has been skunk beer and I can't imagine wanting to clone it. Cheers, Bob Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:58:40 -0500 From: Kit Anderson <kit at maine.com> Subject: RE: Pitching Quantity vs O2 CNN has been running a "Women Brewers" spot featuring our own Maribeth Raines. Karen B from the AHA is also in it. Welcome to your 15 minutes of fame, Maribeth. (You are younger than I had imagined.) The pitching quantity/aeration question is very timely. I just made a pale ale with 1318 and pitched the cake into a Scotch ale (1075). I aerated with an aquarium pump for 30 minutes and it started bubbling within 2 hours. I worried about oxidation until I read Maribeth's article. Now I feel better. As I was setting up the sparge bucket for the Scotch ale, I spilled some 170F water and suffered some 2nd degree burns on my neck. There is another advantage to the no sparge technique. I'll let you know how the Red Neck Scotch turns out. - --- Kit Anderson "Welcome to Northeast Texas- Bath, Maine a survival guide for Texans in New England" http://members.aol.com/garhow1/kit/index.htm Maine Beer Page http://www.maine.com/brew Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 09:09:33 +0000 From: "Nathan L. Kanous II" <nkanous at tir.com> Subject: Hose Length Hose length gurus unite! I have read previous threads about hose length and thought it to be a unique academic pursuit. Then I kegged a batch of beer. Hose length matters. I can easily increase the hose length on my "picnic" faucet. No problem. The problem lies in the fact that I acquired a cold plate, faucet, cooler combo some time ago. I only tried it one other time on my first kegged brew which never carbonated due to my own ignorance. I now force carbonate. My question relates to the relatively long distance the beer flows through while in the cold plate. I don't have an exact measure, but suffice it to say, it's long. How will this effect the beer at the tap? Will I lose carbonation due to the long length? Will it equilibrate? The cold plate itself is what is cold. The beer can be kept at higher temps (that's what these are for) but be dispensed colder. Thus, no effect of "warming" in the hose will occur. Anyhow, any brewers out there ever use one? Any tricks out there? I suppose you could fill a small refrigerator with a bunch of these rather than a big frige with a few kegs. Sorry so long. Private e-mail is fine and I can post a summary. Nathan Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:50:07 -0800 From: Mark Bridges <mbridges at coastnet.com> Subject: Yeast, Hops, and Weather I've been reading this recent yeast/aeration thread with interest. I think it is useful to note that we do not all approach this topic from the same perspective. In seeking to improve our final product we homebrewers try to emulate the practices of commercial brewers (in varying degrees). As homebrewers we are often brewing only periodically (ie 1 x month, 2 x month) and use our raw materials to the best of our abilities. Often we will brew once, and use a re-cultured (or different) yeast strain for our next brew. Yes, it is possible to pitch a sufficient amount of yeast to successfully ferment a batch of beer without aeration. If you are wishing to keep re-pitching the same yeast (as breweries do) you will ensure that the yeast is in optimum health, and that normally includes aeration in some fashion. That we can homebrew without sophisticated aeration is really a bonus, though my opinion (sorry, no facts here) is that aeration is a *good* thing. Now, what about First Gold hops ? I have a small quantity with which I'm going to brew some pale ale, then use in conjunction with Northern Brewer for a stout. I'm interested in your opinions of this new hop, please privately e-mail me with the a/a%, physical description, and end result in your brew. I suppose if these get popular we could use "Up the Dwarves" as a cheer, but it might get us some funny looks ! Finally, the weather. Since I live in the "California of Canada" I have to see if anyone can match our one day snowfall record in 1996. On Dec. 29 we had 64.5 cm of snow in a 24 hour period. It's a lot even when you convert to inches. I have found that homebrew is essential when snowbound !! Good Brewing. Mark Bridges Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #2318

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