HOMEBREW Digest #2323 Thursday, January 23 1997

Digest #2322 Digest #2324
		(formerly Volume 02 : Number 043)


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  [No Subject Provided By Sender]
  Wort chiller design and Mash/Lauter Tuns (Todd Goodman <tsg at netlink.com>)
  Lactose Priming
  cleaning dip tubes
  Marris Otter Malt
  Wyeast 1338 update (George De Piro)
  Re: Heineken
  Fermenter Liners (Eric Peters)
  Oxygen and Starters
  Hop tea
  Re: Wort chiller design
  Re: Homebrew Digest V2 #42
  Re: Aeration/kraeusening 
  CO2 capacity again
  Questions from a beginner
  RE: Reverse step infusion mash  (George De Piro)
  What dissolves beerstone?  (George De Piro)
  Carbonation computation
  mead & Bass ale bottles
  green bottles - why?
  More thoughts on carbonation computation
  War of the Worts results
  Wort Chillers and Taste
  SG after boil
  Calcium oxalate
  Forced carbonation (John Wilkinson)
  Re: Homebrew Digest V2 #42
  Large Fermentation Barrels 8-}
  Late Response- perhaps one more(

---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: From: Subject: [No Subject Provided By Sender] All postings to the HBD should go to <homebrew at brew.oeonline.com> All administrative mail should go to <homebrew-request@ brew.oeonline.com> Any mail posted to aob.org for the HBD will be forwarded to those addresses. >From this point forward I am no longer going to be supporting the HBD, so please send all of your mail to homebrew-request@ brew.oeonline.com. This will be the last digest mailed out from this location. I thank all of you for your support, your time, and your understanding. It has been a pleasure to work with such a diverse crowd, and I hope that your futures all find you well. Adrian Goins <admin at softsolut.com> System Administrator - Internaut 100% Software Solutions, Inc. 303-689-0100 voice http://www.softsolut.com 303-891-4507 pager **Please use the PGP key available from "finger admin at softsolut.com"** Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 07:38:53 -0500 From: tsg at eng1.netlink.com Subject: Wort chiller design and Mash/Lauter Tuns (Todd Goodman <tsg at netlink.com>) Fred Klassen <fredk at ibm.net> wrote: >I have had a few comments on my immersion chiller, so I thought I >would pass this along. I did not waist time building connectors for >attachment to the ends of my 1/2" copper coil. Rather, I insert the >copper directly into my in and out 1/2" garden hoses and use hose >clamps to fasten. The chiller took 15 minutes to make, and never leaks. > >Does anyone else do this? > >Fred Klassen >Vancouver, BC Sure, I do exactly the same thing and have never experienced a leak either. I have 1/2" tubing as well. It took me more like 1/2 hour to build (I didn't have a tubing bender and had to be careful not to kink the tubing). To take up the thread about mashing in your lauter tun (or vice versa) could those of you with more experience (or textbook references) explain what the negatives might be to this practice? I could certainly understand why certain lauter tun/mash tun designs might not work well for both, but are there quality reasons why it would be undesirable? Thanks, Todd Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 97 07:28:41 -0600 From: Raymond Louvier <r099g at waii.com> Subject: Lactose Priming I have a question I hope someone can help me out with. I have a great Dry stout in the secondary. I tasted it last night and it was beatifully dry. But, I would like to add a small amount of sweetness to it. Starting OG was 1.060 and last night going to secondary it was at 1.020 after 3.5days in the primary. In about a week I am going to bottle and was thinking of using lactose to prime with and give it a little sweetness. Does any one have any idea how much lactose to use or even if it is a good idea. This is a 5 gallon batch. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Ray Louvier Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 13:50:43 -0500 From: "A. J. deLange" <ajdel at mindspring.com> Subject: SO4/O2 Craig Agnor asked about adding gypsum to the priming solution to increase the hops bitterness of a beer made with low sulfate water. Try it and see but my feeling is that the necessary reactions take place in the boil and that, therefore, adding sulfate after the fact will have little effect. Alex Santic reported killing a yeast starter with too much oxygen. This is contrary to my experience: I heavily oxygenate starters all the time and have never had one die out. I have reported here before that I did an experiment in which a starter (Wyeast London) was maitained at about 30 mg/L (equilibrium with pure O2 is about 40 mg/L) and monitored for 14 hours. The yeast kept consuming the O2 and reproducing (.13E6/ml at the start of the experiment and 6.61E6 after 14 hours). What strain was it? Are we sure something else wasn't wrong? A. J. deLange - - Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore. Please Note New e-mail Address Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 08:16:28 -0600 From: Robert DeNeefe <rdeneefe at compassnet.com> Subject: cleaning dip tubes I got 3 corny kegs for Christmas and I'm just getting around to cleaning them out and replacing the o-rings. I was debating rather to just scrub the insides or take them apart, but when I opened them up and smelled them, I decided that it would be best to totally disassemble and do a thorough job. I soaked the connectors in hot water and they have come very clean. Tonight I'll work on the lids and canisters. One problem remains: How in the world do I clean the inside of the dip tubes? Do they make pipe cleaners that long? The tubes smell of soda, and I really don't want my next batch to be Barq's Rootbeer Ale. Robert Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 09:19:16 +0000 From: "Nathan L. Kanous II" <nkanous at tir.com> Subject: Marris Otter Malt To the collective: I am curious with the recent postings about the Marris Otter malt. Is there a difference between Marris Otter Pale Malt and Marris Otter Crisp Malt? Could this have an impact upon the discordant reports? Nathan Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 08:06:08 -0800 From: George De Piro <George_De_Piro at berlex.com> Subject: Wyeast 1338 update (George De Piro) Hi all, Just a quick update for those of you who are following my escapades with Wyeast 1338 (European ale). The fermentation was going great for the first few days at ~57F (13.9C), but then we got a severe cold snap here in NY, and the temp dropped down to the high 40's (~8.8C). The yeast slowed to the point of being practically stopped (SG = 1.030, only a 23 point drop). Oops! Interestingly, the Kraeusen never fell, though. I've warmed the fermenters to 65F (18.3C) over a couple of days, and they seem active again. On the positive side, the young beer didn't smell estery... -------------------------- Oh, yes, Mark's comments about the usefulness of decoction mashing for increasing wort fermentability were right on. The increased control that the brewer has over the amylases is one of the major reasons to bother with decoction mashing. Have fun! George De Piro (Nyack, NY) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 09:58:49 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: Heineken In Homebrew Digest V2 #41 Alan Rodgers <alanr at greyware.com> asks: >I can't remember ever getting that particular flavor out of >brown-bottled beer. Why do they use green glass for beer bottles, >anyway? As I have heard it, after WWII, Heineken was gearing up to export beer again, but because of shortages, they couldn't get brown bottles for export, only green. The brown had to be kept at home for reuse. (Of course, beer bottles had been made of brown glass for decades since it was easily discovered empirically that it greatly reduced skunking.) So Americans, especially returning GIs, who were thirsty for European beer, got the first post-war import, Heineken, in green glass. After that, green bottles acquired a cachet from association with a quality, premium import, so other importers found that they did better marketing-wise with green. As an example of how disgustingly far this has gone, when the Frankenmuth Brewery (Michigan) opened about ten years ago, they bottled their supposedly German style pilsner in green glass. Lots of other breweries do this as well, again showing that the bottle and its label seem more important than what's inside it. Of course, Frankenmuth skunked, but you'd be amazed how many people associate that flavor/aroma with "import" taste. I guess that's because skunked Heineken has more character than unskunked Budmilloors. - -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 97 10:12:20 EST From: Eric Peters <epeters at rtp.semi.harris.com> Subject: Fermenter Liners (Eric Peters) From: Greg Moore - <gmoore at wacko.East.Sun.COM> >A local "Brew-On-Premisses" business uses big plastic drums. Since the >batches are 13.5 gallons, I'd estimate that the drums have about 20 Gal >capacity. They used a plastic bag insert in the drum. The plastic is >clear, not white or black like a garbage bag. I don't know if this was >something they have custom made or what. The plastic bag was brought >out the hole in the top and a rubber stoppered airlock placed in the >hole for fermentation. > >Since the wort never directly touched the plastic drum, there was no >need to sterilize the drum itself. U. S. Plastics sells a 55 gallon, FDA approved drum liner for ~$4. (Catalog at home.) Grainger sells the following USDA and FDA approved polyethylene can liners. Doesn't say high or low poly, called "Super-Flex". (Funny, that's what I like to call myself.) Page 1779 of catalog 387: Capacity Size Liners Roll Case Stock (Gallons) W x L Per Roll Each Rolls/Each No. 7 21.5x22" 100 $5.55 10/$5.19 3u753 11-13 23.5x29" 50 4.02 10/3.73 3u754/5 33 35x39" 25 4.47 10/3.92 3u758 55 36x60" 20 11.88 0/9.42 3u764 I have NO experience with these products or fermentation in plastics. Just passing along info. If it saves a little time on brew day, could be worth the expense. Eric in Durham, (A.K.A."Super-Flex") Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:10:00 -0500 From: "Little, Wayne" <LittleW at od31.nidr.nih.gov> Subject: Oxygen and Starters I know this is a well-worn topic, but is it really necessary to pump air or oxygen into wort prior to inoculating with yeast. Yeast are not obligate aerobes - they do ferment sugars. It would seem like growth would be limited only by the availability of fermentables, the accumulation alcohol, and proper temperature. I know it+s risky to make generalizations, but from a microbiological standpoint, it is the strict anaerobes that are the difficult organisms to grow. In preparing culture media, one has to go to great pains to keep oxygen out of the system. Unless you cool the liquid media down in an oxygen-free chamber, oxygen readily permeates the liquid. I would imagine pouring cool wort into a fermentation vessel would introduce sufficient oxygen to grow yeast. The ppm might not be optimal to produce the absolute most rapid beginning of fermentation, but is this really necessary? Coupled with what sound like unduly large volumes of starter, can this not lead to an overly rapid and explosive fermentation that might not produce the best tasting beer? I realize the need of a reasonably rapid start to discourage possible contaminants, but how rapid does it have to be and how large the starter volume? Again, from my old micro days (working with bacteria, not yeast), the general rule of thumb was to inoculate with a log phase culture that was about 1% of the total volume. Any more would risk transferring too many dead cells and waste products. For 5 gal of wort., a 1% starter would be about a half pint. I will admit I was used to working with liter volumes or less, so when upscaling the rules might change. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:16:47 -0500 From: "Ed J. Basgall" <edb at chem.psu.edu> Subject: Hop tea Regarding the use of Hop Tea for post-frermentation bittering. Our brewclub recently toured a microbrewery which does just that. The proprietor recommended using one of the infusion-press type coffee makers to brew the hop tea and separate out the liquid from the solid. He steeps at just below boiling for a couple of hours in his commercial kettle-strainer. cheers Ed Basgall SCUM State College Underground Maltsters State College, PA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:26:12 -0500 (EST) From: Larry M Matthews <lmatt at ipass.net> Subject: Re: Wort chiller design Good Morning, I've noticed lots of folks have/are trying to bend copper without a tubing bender. Don't bother with going to the hardware store for a bender. Simply find an item that you can use as a form and bend the roll of copper tubing slowly around the form. I had a 10" tree in my back yard that I had cut down at a height of 4' several years ago and I just wrapped the tubing around the tree stump that was left. It worked great because the base of the chiller was approx 10" in diameter and it decreased very slowly as I wound it around the tree so that the top rung was about 8". This added great stability to the chiller both in the keg while cooling as well as storing it on a top shelf. Don't go cut down a tree but you could use a corney keg (gives about a 13" coil), or even the leg of your SO, just don't tell them until you're through what it is for. It's easy! At 07:38 AM 1/23/97 -0500, tsg at eng1.netlink.com wrote: >Todd Goodman wrote: >I have 1/2" tubing as well. It took me more like 1/2 hour to build (I didn't >have a tubing bender and had to be careful not to kink the tubing). > > > >Todd > Larry M Matthews Carboy/Trub Member Raleigh, NC 27606 lmatt at ipass.net Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 09:26:39 -0600 (CST) From: Craig Amundsen <amundsen at biosci.cbs.umn.edu> Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest V2 #42 Hi - Maribeth Raines wrote to Dave B: >>"I read somewhere (don't remember where) that O2 also induces the maltose >>transporter system. This may in fact explain how a small amount of O2 may >>have such a large outcome on fermentation. Dave B writes: > Oxygen has to be in some kind of catalyst role or be affecting or forming > enzymes and not the oft repeated (even by me) role of building cell walls*. <SNIP> Just a nit, but catalysts aren't consumed by the reactions in which they participate. Oxygen is most definitely consumed by the yeast. Whether the oxygen induces gene expression by the yeast is a separate issue. I've got three WAGs (Wild Ass Guesses (should this be added to the acronym list?)): 1) If oxygen does indeed induce the maltose transporter system, then all the yeast in the population max out their ability to take maltose into the cell and ferment it. This is a good thing, as any cell division that takes place after the oxygen is added will halve the number of transporters on the surface of the each cell. Also any protein made by an organism has a certain half-life. They get degraded and the component amino acids are used to make new proteins. So over time a cell, assuming no new synthesis of maltose transporters, will begin to lose the ability of move maltose into the cell. Chances are, though, that maltose itself is also an inducer of its transporter. But now we come back to the oxygen. If at the beginning of fermentation the yeast cells don't have many transporters, then how does the maltose get into the cell and then induce the production of its own transporter? Becuase oxygen induces it. 2) The cell wall component that is the end product of of the pathway oxygen is used up in is a limiting factor in cell division. A yeast cell must have a certain amount of this component in order to be able to divide. In an un-oxygenated batch, the cells don't get to divide at all because if they had enough of the cell wall component (CWC), they would have already done so. In an oxygenated batch, all the cells divide until they reach the end of their CWC supply. Actually, an individual yeast cell can only bud around 8 (I think that's the right number) times. Each division leaves a scar on the surface of the mother cell. When the cell surface is completely scar covered division ceases. a) We've got a bunch of young yeast and fermentation is best done by young cells. OR b) We've got a bunch of old yeast that aren't going to divide but have a whole bunch of maltose transporters due to WAG #1 and fermentation is best done by old yeast with no cell division distractions. In either case oxygenation improves the picture of the yeast population with respect to the un-oxygenated yeast. 3) This is an extension of WAG #2a. Since an individual yeast cell can only divide a few times before it can no longer do so, we can talk about the age of each cell. This is different from bacteria or fission yeast since each daughter cell is identical and we can't tell which one was the original cell. So, this geriatric yeast cell is floating around doing the best it can to ferment the wort. But since it isn't dividing it isn't getting its DNA copied anymore and the genetic damage coming about due to its being around for a long time is beginning to accumulate. Eventually it takes some a ray hit that knocks out some fermentation specific gene. Since fermentation is the energy source for the cell, it dies and we get no more alcohol from this cell. Before then, the damage may be knocking out other pathways and allowing the accumulation of metabolic intermediates that lead to the "fruity" flavors people get in under oxygenated batches. So if there are no young yeast around to carry the burden for the old yeast, you get a suboptimal fermentation. There, that's enough speculation for now. - - Craig - -- +-----------------------------+------------------------------------------------+ | Craig Amundsen | DILBERT - Sometimes I wonder if it's ethical | | amundsen at biosci.cbs.umn.edu | to do these genetic experiments. But | | | I rationalize it because it will | | 250 Biological Sciences | improve the quality of life. | | 1445 Gortner Avenue | DOGBERT - What are you making? | | Saint Paul, MN 55108 | DILBERT - Skunkopotamus. O- | +-----------------------------+------------------------------------------------+ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 08:16:15 -0800 From: bmurrey at BellInd.com Subject: Plastic Hi there, I'm not brand new to home brewing but I've been away from it for about 20 years. I'm teaching my sons about fermentation and all the science that I can muster as it relates to the fermentation process. (They're 17 and 14) At work we use these 6 gallon food safe plastic water jugs in our water coolers. I don't see any reason why I couldn't use these as a Primary Fermenter, but would it cause any harm if I used them for the Secondary Fermenter as well? These jugs are tinted light blue, will this have any adverse effect on my brew? Also the lady at the HB supply store was telling me that Aussies have been using 2 litre plastic bottles to bottle their brew. Has anyone tried this and what kind of results did you have? I'm going to get one of those mini-keg (1.3 gallon) systems soon so I won't have to worry about bottles much. Thanks Brian Murrey IS Coordinator Computer Division - Bell Industries (317)634-8202 X3150 bmurrey at bellind.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:46:18 -0500 (EST) From: AJN <neitzkea at frc.com> Subject: Re: Aeration/kraeusening On Thu, 23 Jan 1997, Gavin Scarman wrote: > Oh, well can I get you to brew me a hefe-weizen then as I can't seem > to get the "clovey" characters I'm after? ;) (been using Yeast Labs > w51, about to try weihenstephen from Wyeast). > If my memory serves me right, that is the yeast I used in wheat beer. It had a very nice "clovey" characters. It did stay in the primary for 4 weeks though. Every one that tried one, like it, and always went back for more. _________________________________________________________________________ Arnold J. Neitzke Internet Mail: neitzkea at frc.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 11:48:33 -0500 From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu> Subject: CO2 capacity again Sheesh! Some day I'll learn not to calculate "from the hip". A more careful calculation reveals that both my previous calculations were off by a factor of 2 (one high, one low). To reiterate: CO2 weighs 44 g per mole. A mole of CO2 at STP is about 22 liters. Thus, CO2 weighs about 2g/liter (at STP). Thus, 2 volumes of carbonation consumes 4g/liter of CO2. Pushing a liter of beer out at 14PSIG takes another 2 liters-at-STP of CO2 (4g). Thus, each liter of beer requires 8g of CO2 to carbonate and push. A 5lb tank holds 2265 grams of CO2. 2265g / 8g/l = 283 liters of beer carbonated and pushed. 283l / 3.8gal/l = 74 gallons of beer or 14-15 5 gallon batches. =S Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:52:07 -0600 From: David Burki <davidb at pdainc.com> Subject: Questions from a beginner Having only 2 batches under my belt, I need some advice. Once bottled and conditioned for a couple weeks, where is the best place = to store my beer. Do I leave them in the ~70 deg. house, put them in = the ~62 deg. basement or store them in the fridge? I don't imagine = they'll need storing for more than 4 - 6 weeks after the initial 2 week = conditioning/carbonation period. Since I am a recovering MillerBudCoors drinker, I have _very_ limited = experience with various styles and different brewers offerings within = styles. I'm trying to expand my horizons and recently tried a Fosters = Special Bitter. Came in a BIG can (25.5 oz.). I enjoyed it and = wondered if this particular brew was representative of the bitter style. = I have also recently discovered a red lager from Linenkugels (sp?), = located in Wisconsin I think. To which style would this kind of beer = belong? Anyone familiar with this beer that has a recipe to clone it? Private email OK. TIA David davidb at pdainc.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 11:53:32 -0800 From: George De Piro <George_De_Piro at berlex.com> Subject: RE: Reverse step infusion mash (George De Piro) Hi all, Charles Burns writes the following in reference to my statement about "reverse step infusion mashing" (I said that it will denature the beta amylase and yield a dextrinous wort): -------- "And he's right, technically. However, I've got a recipe that does exactly this and won a 2nd Place in California State Fair last summer. Go for it Eric!" -------- Well, Eric should go for it, if he wants a dextrinous wort! The fact that you made a nice beer with this technique is not surprising. Just don't get confused about the reason the beer was good. You would get a similar result, with faster conversion, by insulating your mash tun so that it can hold a steady temperature. This would also make it easier to brew consistent batches. Allowing the temperature to drop over the course of your saccharafication rest is not what made the beer good. Have fun! George De Piro (Nyack, NY) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 12:03:57 -0800 From: George De Piro <George_De_Piro at berlex.com> Subject: What dissolves beerstone? (George De Piro) Howdy, Calcium oxalate, a.k.a. "beerstone", is soluble in dilute hydrochloric acid or nitric acid (Merck index 12). It is practically insoluble in acetic acid (vinegar) and water (obviously). If you want to be environmentally friendly, you should neutralize the acid with baking soda before dumping it down the drain. There will be much foaming (CO2 evolution) when you add the baking soda to the acid, so wear eye protection and add it slowly to avoid a violent (but really cool) eruption. Have fun! George De Piro (Nyack, NY) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 12:44:12 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Carbonation computation In the last few HBDs, Spencer and others have been diswcussing the amount of CO2 needed to carbonate (and push out) beer at certain volumes of CO2, with confused (confusing) results. He has recorrected his results. This points out once again why I think it makes more sense to talk about carbonation in terms of CO2 content as per cent by weight as the Germans do (g CO2/100 g beer, according to Eric Warner, _German Wheat Beer_). This eliminates the problem of calculating how much sugar to add to prime, remembering weight of a mole of CO2, flipping fractions, etc. If we as homebrewers would forget about volumes of CO2 (a rather arbitrary unit) and go with g CO2/100 g beer, and start specifying CO2 content that way in our articles, books, posts, home pages, etc., it seems to me that it would be much simpler. If Spencer has trouble with the arithmatic, think about the vast majority of us. Warner says (p.48) that the average wheat beer analysed contains 0.64g/100g, or 3.30 volumes. This means that 1 volume equals 0.19 g/100g. As I recall, a typical Pilsner has 0.5 g CO2/100 g. beer, which is also about 2.5 volumes. This means that if we wanted to prime to this content, we'd add about 1 g. sugar/100 g beer, since sugar pretty nearly produces half each CO2 and ethanol. This also easily answers the often asked question of "how much alcohol does my priming sugar add?" About 1/2% in this case. Computation of the amount of CO2 needed to artificially carbonate 5 gallons is equally straight forward (assuming 1 liter of beer weighs 1 kg, close enough): 0.5 g CO2/100g beer X 18900g beer/5 gallons beer = 94.5g CO2/5 gallons beer This ignores the amount of CO2 needed to push the beer out of the keg, since that is the same regardless of whether we prime or artificially carbonate. Since few of us meter the volume of CO2 we put in our beer, it seems that to we must always (derive volumes CO2) from some other measurement, such as amount of priming sugar or pressure tables, with the opportunity for errors. To continue using this artificial, archaic unit makes little sense. Why not convert the craft's standard carbonation unit to per cent dissolved CO2? We just need tables giving % dissolved CO2 for each style. The Germans have adopted this for good reason. - -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 11:45:06 -0600 From: lheavner at tcmail.frco.com Subject: mead & Bass ale bottles Thanks to everybody who responded to my query on mead making. I am trying to get my friend with the honey to pick a few recipes and then we're off.... To the responder in MASS who is coveting that honey, I'll be in touch later... I also recently posted a problem with carbonation on a lagered rauschbier. I've discovered the problem and am no longer worried. I recently bought a case of Bass Ale and saved the bottles. Some of the beer was bottled in some of them including the first few samples I tried. Evidently, I didn't get a good seal on those bottles. All of my other bottles were well carbonated and none of the bass bottles had more than a barely detectable fizz. Has anybody else experienced a problem with capping Bass bottles? Regards, Lou <lheavner at frmail.frco.com> Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 11:52 -0600 From: BAYEROSPACE <M257876 at sl1001.mdc.com> Subject: green bottles - why? collective homebrew conscience: > Why do they use green glass for beer bottles, = >anyway? i would imagine that part of the reason is marketing. in order to separate himself from the masses, who quaff domestic brown bottled product (not skunked) , a yupster will pay an extra $1.00 a bottle and receive a green bottle of skunky, old, stale beer. this obviously distinguishes him as a man of great taste and sophistication, and can be detected visually by the color of the bottle from across the bar, by young, intelligent women seeking just such a man of the world. heineken and the others simply take advantage of this behavior (at the expense of the beer, and the consumer, of course). they *know* the effects of light on beer, but as long as joe q. style is willing to buy it, they'll gladly keep shipping it over here. i wonder, does heineken use green glass for their domestically sold beer? dennis wrote: > And will the "double decotion, no sparge" make a beer >too malty? It is for a dark lager, and we are using the Wyeast >Bavarian Lager yeast. bavarian? dark lager? too malty?????????? i wouldn't worry about making a bavarian dark lager too malty. make it as malty as you can possibly make it. you're on the right track. brew hard, mark bayer Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 12:57:16 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: More thoughts on carbonation computation We have all been ignoring the dissolved CO2 in the beer before priming/carbonating, which will, of course, affect the amount of CO2 or sugar needed. There are tables that give this, but they are in volumes CO2. These, of course, were converted from % dissolved CO2 at some point. If we followed my proposal, we would need these as % dissolved CO2. - -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:04:49 -0800 From: Alan Folsom <folsom at ix.netcom.com> Subject: War of the Worts results Several people have called and/or emailed to ask if I had full results from the War of the Worts competition available. Yes, but it is quite long, nearly as large as a single HBD. If anyone would like a copy, send email and I will reply with it. Score sheets should be out within a week or so. I've started stuffing envelopes, but with nearly 700 scoresheets it will take a few days. Again, thanks for all the support from brewers and judges. Al Folsom Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 97 11:22:59 MST From: Peter Ruddy <ruddyp at mercury.stm.com> Subject: Wort Chillers and Taste Fellow Brewers, I've been an extract brewer for a few years and I'm getting ready to evolve to all-grain brewing. Is there any truth to the following statement?: If one doesn't use a wort-chiller with an all-grain batch the final product will have an odd flavor. Thanks in advance for your help. - -Pete Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 12:28:44 -0600 From: Gary Eckhardt <gary_eckhardt at realworld.com> Subject: SG after boil Lo all! I brewed a batch this weekend (my second all-grain) and the process went well. I checked my OG, and it was in the 1.040 range, not bad for what I was mashing. I was expecting somewhere in the range of 1.052, but I sparaged about 7 gallons of wort to help solve my problem of short batches. I'm assuming that this explains my SG reading being a little low. However, I proceeded with the boil, and although I didn't check, I'm sure that I got at least 5-5 1/2 gallons of wort after it was all boiled down due to evaporation. Unfortunately, I didn't check my SG after the boil. What could I have expected my SG to be if I lost 1.5 gallons of water in the boil? Is there a quick-n-dirty formula anywhere for this? Thanks for any info. - ---------------------------+---------------------------------------------- Gary Eckhardt | "in this day & age...music performed by Database Consultants, Inc. | humans...hum!?" --wilde silas tomkyn dcigary at txdirect.net | R,DW,HAHB! gary_eckhardt at realworld.com| R^3 = "Real World. Real Smart. Real Quick." (210)344-6566 | http://www.realworld.com/ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 13:49:48 -0500 From: "Ed J. Basgall" <edb at chem.psu.edu> Subject: Calcium oxalate Al. According to the Merck Index 12th edit. Calcium oxalate is insoluble in water and acetic acid, and soluble in dilute hydrochloric and nitric acids. cheers Ed Basgall SCUNM Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 97 13:03:58 CST From: John Wilkinson <jwilkins at imtn.tpd.dsccc.com> Subject: Forced carbonation (John Wilkinson) In the discussion of the merits of primed as opposed to forced carbonation, I think someone mentioned the time it takes to force carbonate. I do not spend much time force carbonating my beer and I get good results. I chill the keg to ~40-45 F, attach the CO2 line, apply 15-20 psi, place the keg on its side with the gas fitting up, and rock the keg back and forth for a couple of minutes. I then return the keg to the serving refrigerator and connect to serving and CO2 lines. I usually let it set for a few hours to let it settle before serving from it. It usually is better after a couple of days because it has clarified after the agitation of carbonating and the carbonation seems better. My time spent actually carbonating is minimal and the wait for properly settled and carbonated beer is only a couple of days. I think this is a lot better than I could expect from priming. I have tried carbonating at higher pressures without much agitaion but tended to get overcarbonated beer. The 15-20 psi method gives better results for me. I serve at ~8 psi. - --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dennis Waltman inquired about a good digital thermometer. Someone posted a while back that one was available from Williams Sonoma, a cooking utensils store that also does mail order. In fact I think they are more into mail order than they are stores. At any rate, I went to a store in Plano, Texas (near Dallas) and bought the thermometer for ~$15 I think. I checked it against boiling water and an ice water solution in a thermos as well as against a fever thermometer and found it to agree within ~1 degree F. I find it quite handy although I have had to replace the battery twice but I keep forgetting to turn it off. John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkins at imtn.dsccc.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 11:25:01 PST From: Joseph Kral <kral at hpljlk.hpl.hp.com> Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest V2 #42 > > Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 14:32:05 -0700 > From: Jeff Sturman <brewshop at coffey.com> > Subject: pronunciation > > We have some home brew riding on this one: How do you pronounce Gueuze? > (blended lambic beer) > Its 'gerz' sort of a growl with a 'z' at the end. (an american 'z' sound, not 'zed'). - -- Joseph Kral Hewlett-Packard Laboratories kral at hpljlk.hpl.hp.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 12:38:41 -0700 From: Ken Sullivan <kj at nts.gssc.com> Subject: Large Fermentation Barrels 8-} Contact St. Patricks of Texas homebrew store. They get their Briess Malt Extract in 15 Gallon Blue plastic barrels. They will sell them for $2 each. Shipping is more expensive than the barrels. They are great!! ABout $12 to get 4 shipped from Texas to Colorado. Also, your local supermarket buys bulk OJ and Milk. They usually get the bulk liquids in 55 gallon plastic drums _OR_ they will buy sanitizer to clean out their packaging equipment between runs. The sanitizer comes in 55 Gallon drums. Also check a local feed & supply store. I bought 6 each 55 gallons drums for $4 each. They had sanitizer in them used to clean the lines between runs of OJ and Milk. Should be just fine after rinsing. Look around, save some money. Also, the Beer Store in Boulder,CO (U-Brew-it) uses the 15 gallon drums with the plastic food-grade liner and a stopper as well. The liners are available through U.S.Plastics or COnsolidated Plastics. KJ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 97 14:45 EST From: eric fouch <S=eric_fouch%S=fouch%G=eric%DDA=ID=STC021+pefouch%Steelcase-Inc at mcimail.com> Subject: Late Response- perhaps one more( Date: Thursday, 23 January 1997 1:16pm ET To: STC012.HOMEBRE1 at STC010.SNADS From: Eric.Fouch at STC001 Subject: Late Response- perhaps one more(Efouch) In-Reply-To: The letter of Thursday, 23 January 1997 10:59am ET HBD- Sorry if my post ever shows up regarding B Bakers questions about yeast and aeration. It should have showed up by now, and the subject has been answered fairly thoroughly already. I really thought I'd be the first :( Al- Calcium Oxalate is soluble in dilute HCl or dilute HNO3. Don't mix the two acids, as you might make "aqua regia", which dissolves most any metal except silver (1 part nitric, 3 parts hydrochloric). J. Sturman- The correct pronounciation of gueuze (as I'm sure I'm not the first to point out) is "gerz". I hope the homebrew is good or was worth it. :) C. Burns- I'm not worried about my brew(s), but, to recap a portion of my apparently lost post; } Well, in short, you can't work backwards with mash enzymes. The high initial heat will denature the beta amylase. As the temperature drops all that you will achieve is slowing down the surviving alpha amylase. You'll get conversion, but a highly } This *seems* to fly in the face of information Al K. gave me about the neccesity of the mash out: Paraphrasing, I proposed mashout may be overkill because perhaps alpha amylase activation temps denatured beta amylase, so in the cooling sparge collection kettle, niether enzyme would be working, as you are below alpha temps, and beta amylase had been denatured, which is what George just said. Al assured me this don't happen (OK, he used better grammer), that both enzymes are denatured only at the mashout temperature. Who's right? Who's wrong? Do I still just don't get it? I know MBINR, but I'm curious as to what the enzymes are up to. TIA for FAQ's Eric Fouch Curious in Kentwood. (Bent Dick Yactobrewery) Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #2323