HOMEBREW Digest #2333 Sun 02 February 1997

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@ brew.oeonline.com
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				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  RE:  Will my beer get better after bottling (duffy toler) ("Toler, Duffy L.")
  Chicago-Celis (ben stutzman)
  NT 3.5 "easter egg" (richard l scholz) (Rscholz)
  Hop-back (Henning)
  Cold Break Seperation ("James T. Palm")
  Re: Yeast Harvesting / Late Night Musings (Cuchulain Libby)
  RE: Freshman Digest - Big heads (Anton Walters)
  Virgin Brewer Alert (Kate Cone)
  Modifying Chest Freezer? (UTC -05:00)" <al_czajkowski at e-mail.com>
  Subject: Allergies, et al. (Charles Puffe)
  Transporting full CO2 canisters - safe? (William D Gladden )
  Reducing Sugars/HBD (A. J. deLange)
  More Priming Questions ("John Penn")
  creating a better environment (Barry Finley)
  Multi-Part all grain (Tim.Watkins)
  Modifying chest freezer ("C.PEKARIK")
  Re: Dairy equipment (Ron Gasik)
  Freshman HBD/dip tube idea (Tim Martin)
  Honey, I cooked the Wyeast! / How much glycerine?,lactic acid (Brian Pickerill)
  Newbies, Freshman digest, and agar (Harlan Bauer)
  Using Clinitest for Keg-Conditioning Beers (MaltyDog)
  esters/hydrogen sulphide/doppelbock yst/false bottoms/long lag/BW starter (korz)
  Recipe Analysis thread, Green Beer, Fruit beers (TheTHP)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 30 Jan 97 19:16:00 PST From: "Toler, Duffy L." <TOLERD at cdnet.cod.edu> Subject: RE: Will my beer get better after bottling (duffy toler) >Gustavo Perez asks: >My present batch smell very good although I though it had >a bitter taste. Will this change as the beer continues to >ferment in the bottles? I've only brewed a couple of batches >so I don't have a good feel for the whole process yet. My advice for any beginners at this important cross road, unless it tastes/smells like roadkill, bottle it anyway. It may not be an award winner, but after putting in all the work to get a batch to this stage, an hour's bottling time is a drop in the bucket. A beer's character really changes after having a chance to experience life a while. Carbonation can affect the way you perceive the balance of the beer, bitter or off flavors may wane as the beer conditions. Some ale styles need a bit more aging than others. Beers with high hop rates and/or a high OG (Barley Wine) usually need longer to age than a more subdued beer (British Pale Ale). So, roll the dice, bottle the stuff, let it age.....it may be your best beer yet! -Duffy Toler If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to view all of your problems as nails. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 19:46:39 -0600 (CST) From: stutzman at ipa.net (ben stutzman) Subject: Chicago-Celis Rich, I don't know how close it is to the L but "Sam's Wines and Spirits" I'm sure will have the complete line fro Celis as well as one of the largest selections of imports and micros in the area. It would be worth the cab fair. Sam's Wines and Spirits 1720 N. Marcey St. Chicago 312-664-4394 800-777-9137 www.sams-wine.com Oh ya, take an extra suite case. Good brewing Ben Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 23:01:57 -0500 (EST) From: Rscholz at aol.com Subject: NT 3.5 "easter egg" (richard l scholz) Hi all, Since all of us use a computer to post, here's a little hidden feature of Microsoft's NT 3.5x OS. (know as an Easter Egg by the programing cognoscenti) If one types "BEER" into the 3D text screensaver built into NT. One get more than 50 beer brands and styles randomly scrolled on the screen instead of the word "BEER". Lots of belgians , british and american microbrew brands along with style names like IPA, Weisse, Trippel etc. Just thought people with NT in front of them at work or home would like to know. later, richard l scholz bklyn ny usa Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 21:24:06 -0800 From: Henning <bogus at cco.net> Subject: Hop-back Hello- Good to see HBD behaving again, to those who made it work, I in toast your general direction. I just made a nice hop-back. It was cheap, easy, and functioned decently the first time (and perfect since). I used a 10 oz glass jar with a screw on lid. I used two 2" pieces of threaded 3/8" tubing with two nuts, a washer, and a rubber sink washer. The out port has a SureScreen on it to filter hops. This port also has a hose clamp on the poly-vinyl since it leaked a couple of ounces the first time. So, where to get threaded tubing and what's a SureScreen? I got my tubing at a lighting fixture store. They had quite a bit of tubing salvaged from broken fixtures. She gave me a 6" piece and some nuts and washers no charge. I promised her a sixer. I stopped by Mega Hardware for some sink washers. I sure this tubing has been mentioned here before but I'm new to it. It solves a few equipment design problems. The SureScreen is a 4" long by 3/8" diameter stainless steel screen. It's perfect for racking wort from the hops in the kettle, no more choreboys. I don't use a bag to dry-hop so it works great for that as well. I got two from AlK for $17 including s/h. Well worth it. I'm think the next beer I dry hop, I'm going to rack to the secondary with the hops in the hop-back and then pour the hops in to the beer. Cheers, Jason Henning Big Red Alchemy and Brewing huskers at cco.net (spamfree e-address) Wine is the most healthful and hygienic of all beverages Louis Pasteur Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 22:02:36 -0800 From: "James T. Palm" <Wittpalm at ix19.ix.netcom.com> Subject: Cold Break Seperation I just wanted to share my method of removing cold break after boil and chilling. I whirlpool a little and then I siphon into a bottling bucket with one of those plastic taps on the side. I snap a lid with an air lock on top and let it sit for 2~3 hours. I get quite a layer of crud (Hop parts, hot break, cold break, etc). I then siphon into my primary using a hose with one of those plastic spray aerators on it. I get really clear bitter wort into the primary with just a little trub for yeast nutrients. I have used this method many times with no contamination at all. I just sanitize everything used after chilling the wort real well. - -- = A Bus Station is were a Bus stops, A Train Station is were a Train stops, On my desk I have a Work Station=85 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 01:07:49 -0600 From: Cuchulain Libby <hogan at connecti.com> Subject: Re: Yeast Harvesting / Late Night Musings Greetings all, Tom Williams inquired about the heat strength of what I assume to be glass carboys aka Sparklett's bottles. Jeez do I feel old but here goes. When I was a young, dope smoking, long haired freak I and my friends, in an attempt to augment our 'raised consciousnesses' with visual aids would place oh, about that much rubbing alcohol or everclear in a bottle swirl it about and....LIGHT it!! Now, I could try to describe what happens but I couldn't do it justice. Just this, We didn't need psychogenics to be amazed, as I found out when I performed the stunt for a High School demonstration. ( INSERT '90'S LEGAL DISCLAIMER HERE) We never once broke a bottle although I suppose lighter fluid or gasoline would. Anyway having too much time on my hands (I'm out of empty fermenting vessels), I got to thinking... Could I use 5gal HDPE buckets as secondaries? Could I drill the airlock hole high on the side? Could I run the airlock by a 90o bend? Could I then stack my secondaries? Could I then go into higher production without sacrificing valuable space? If I ask you guys will this just resurrect the HDPE vs Glass thread? Thinking Yes, Yeah, and Sure Why Didn't I Think of That thoughts, Cuchulain Bonus Trivia Question: How do they get dye to adhere to cloth? Or to ask it another way; How is the color in ALL clothes applied? OK one hint: It makes a hypocrite out of animal rights' freaks. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 00:30:05 -0800 (PST) From: Anton Walters <proton at teleport.com> Subject: RE: Freshman Digest - Big heads In # 2331 Ronald LaBorde appeals: Everyone will get much more from the HBD if they do not miss the opportunity to also see it as a lesson in human character. If you find an egotist, then observe, learn, consider what you do or do not like and use that information to improve yourself. Do not limit yourself to only beer. Why be so narrow sighted? It's here, it's free and it's good. As for me personally I greatly appreciate the efforts, time, and trouble the posters take to carefully and thoroughly and generously give help to others on the HBD. Preach on brother Ron! I don't know how this could have been said in a more elegant way. My sincere thanks go out to Ronald Labore, Pat Babcock, Karl Lutzen and to all the other people who make this forum part of the *SOLUTION* and not just part of the problem. -Anton Walters //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// // "I love it when a plan comes together..." - George Peppard // // < proton at teleport.com > // //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 07:06:14 -0500 From: katecone at maine.com (Kate Cone) Subject: Virgin Brewer Alert Hello to the digest. I've been lurking, waiting for the right time to begin homebrewing. I just finished the book I've been working on for over a year. My travel guide to New England brewpubs & micro's will be published in April, 1997. ("What's Brewing in New England," Down East Books, Camden, Maine). I bought my equipment for all grain brewing from Dave Bartz of The Gourmet Brewer, who many of you may have heard from recently. I can attest that Dave is a serious customer service guy, and I recommend his homebrew supply store highly. He answered e-mail w/in a day, and has called me at his expense twice to go over my concerns and lengthy list of needed equipment. He also has an '800' number. His e-mail address is: gbrewer at iquest.net My request is from all you expert homebrewers: Can you give me a one line message of advice about the first time at homebrewing? Something not technical? I notice that much of the digest discussion is highly technical, not at all like Charlie Papazian's advice to relax. . .you know the rest. My first brew will be a blond ale made in all grain fashion. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Kate Cone Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 07:57:16 EST From: "Al Czajkowski USAET(UTC -05:00)" <al_czajkowski at e-mail.com> Subject: Modifying Chest Freezer? Ray Corona asked in #2331 about where to drill in his GE chest freezer to attach taps for dispensing. I was looking to do the same thing a few months back and perused through the archives. The idea I found there that seemed to best solve this is: DON'T DRILL THROUGH THE FREEZER! Instead, remove the lid. Build a 2x2 or 2x4 frame out of lumber to exactly fit the dimensions of your freezer. Attach this to the top of the chest and reattach the lid to the frame. You can safely drill through the wood to add the taps, run in the probe for an external temperature controller, etc. Electronically, Al Czajkowski Fraternal Order of Renaissance Draughtsmen USFMC8FH at IBMMAIL.COM Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 08:09:49 -0500 (EST) From: Charles Puffe <cpuffe at mail1.nai.net> Subject: Subject: Allergies, et al. >Question #1 Allergies > > A co-worker of mine said that he cannot enjoy a beer because of a >allergic reaction (his lips swell then a tightness in the chest with >trouble breathing). He also has this same reaction when eating wheat >bread. However he can have bleached out white bread and the bleached out >malted beverage, Zima (Zomething awful). My first guess would be the >yeast but I'm not a doctor nor allergist, so does any one have any ideas >how I could help out this troubled soul to enjoy a real brew? > This sounds like it could be a gluten allergy, although I'm sure that one of the biophysicists on the HBD will flame me for my impudence. Chuck Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 08:18:55 -0500 From: William D Gladden <W_GLADDEN at Mail.Co.Chester.PA.US> Subject: Transporting full CO2 canisters - safe? Greetings all, I volunteered to bring beer to a friends wedding. There is currently a family debate going on about whether or not it is safe to transport CO2 (and therefore kegs) in the car. So far we have noted that HB supply shops can't ship CO2 full, the full cannisters are always stored outside, and compressed gas (whatever kind) probably doesn't fare too well in an accident. I'm looking for info. that would be admissable evidence in the our domestic debate, or info. that would tell me to shut my cake hole and bottle. Unfortunately relax and have a homebrew, and the standard - hey, how safe is it to transport several cases of glass bottles - was thrown out and I was warned about being in contempt! I suppose one alternative would be to take some of the CO2 dispersers used in minikeg systems for these types of events instead of the 5 and 10 pound cannisters. What do you keggers out there do/think? Any scientific literature on the subject? Thanks in advance, Bill Gladden - Downingtown PA <W_GLADDEN at Mail.Co.Chester.PA.US> Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 14:08:40 -0500 From: ajdel at mindspring.com (A. J. deLange) Subject: Reducing Sugars/HBD Dave Burley suggested the use of diabetic products to determine residual sugar content towards the end of the fermentation. This is workable but also quite approximate. As far as I know most of the tests are enzyme based tests specific for glucose (that's what diabetics really care about) and, of course, won't tell you a thing about the amount of fructose etc left in the mash. Tests based on the reducing properties of aldoses (glucose) and ketoses (fructose) are also valuable but suffer from a similar flaw in that when dissacharides are formed in which the anomeric carbons of both monosacharides are involved in the glycoside bond (such as sucrose) the reducing power is lost. Thus sucrose is not a reducing sugar and is not detected. Furthermore, polysaccarides and oligosacharides which are not fermentable can have reducing ends which will be detected. This doesn't mean that these products can't be used with some benefit. Clearly a reduction in reducing sugar level to a stable value indicates that fermentation is nearly complete.Greg Noonan in his original "Brewing Lager Beer" suggests that fermentation is complete when reducing sugar level is at 2% (2% of what I can't be sure - I assume it's the reading of a "Dextrocheck" kit since that's what he advocates for testing). I used to use the Clinitest strips myself but haven't seen them in years. When I asked for them (have given up now) I was always told that diabetics now use the photometric blood meters now as they are much more accurate. I believe most of them use glucose oxidase (from our old friend A. niger) and are thus glucose specific. The older guys will remember Fehling's solution and Benedict's reagent. * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * I'd like to applaud Keith Royster's perception:"In fact, it continues to amaze me how he never [Al K] seems to tire of answering the same beginners' questions over and over; ones which I have tired of answering but know that others who are newer to this digest will be happy to answer." (and Al K's willingness) and would like to add that the best way to learn from the digest, IMO, is to try to answer the questions you see posted to the digest yourself. The answers to the vast majority of them are to be found in the common brewing texts. If you think you understand the question and the answer, then post it. Unfortunately, there is a greater liklihood today than formerly that your sligtly off base response will be met with a less than gentle correction but persist and accept the criticisms in good spirit. I'll bet I picked up half of what I know about brewing in this way. A. J. deLange - Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore. Please Note New e-mail Address Return to table of contents
Date: 31 Jan 1997 10:02:13 -0500 From: "John Penn" <john_penn at spacemail.jhuapl.edu> Subject: More Priming Questions Subject: Time:10:46 AM OFFICE MEMO More Priming Questions Date:1/31/97 Good question about priming from Adam, you're on the right track. If you want 2.0 volumes of CO2 in your beer for an English style ale, then the temperature you need to worry about is the temperature of the beer at priming time! That determines how much sugar to add to get 2.0 volumes of beer. How much CO2 is released in that beer when you drink it is determined by how many volumes of CO2 it was primed with and the temperature it is served at. The English ale in question will still have 2.0 volumes of CO2 but will seem more carbonated if you serve it at warmer temperatures because more CO2 will be released. So don't compensate for serving temperature, just priming temperature. The old 4oz priming sugar (NOT quite 3/4 cup) recommendation is for an average ALE primed near room temperature. Ales primed at other temperatures, Lagers, and other styles that are more or less carbonated than your average beer require compensation and the web pages at the brewery are an excellent source for info (as well as recipes). John Penn Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 10:44:32 -0500 (EST) From: Barry Finley <bfinley at arches.uga.edu> Subject: creating a better environment This being only the second time I have posted in well over a year, I just thought that I would explain to everyone my reasons for taking a leave of absence. Now I know you are thinking who is this guy, but I assure you that I used to post regularly (at least twice a week). It seems that absolutely nothing has changed on the HDB. Sure, it is still a great resource for brewers from all walks of life. Whether they are first time brewers, or the most experienced brewers, a person can get answers to just about any question they have pertaining to brewing, and sometimes not pertaining at all. And I love the HBD for this reason. But, it seems to me that all of the bickering and griping amongst certain individuals (I fell it not important to mention any names), is a major deterant that scares alot of people away from the HBD. How do you think that all of the arguing and constant putdowns of your fellow brewers looks to a first time brewer that is depending on the HBD as a resource for their first brew? Look, all I am trying to say is that for the sake of your fellow brewers that are unknow to all of you (because they don't post for whatever reason), can we please stop all of the constant arguing. Please stop all of the personal vendetas that many of you have. If you have a problem with something that someone said, don't make the rest of us constantly hit page down through all of your arguing. There is a simple solution. Anyone ever hear of private e-mail? I'm sorry if this has offended anyone. If it has, have a beer on me. I'm simply trying to make the HBD a much more plesant place for everyone to visit. Please, if anyone wants to comment about this post, don't waste bandwith, or worry those who don't care one way or the other, with your opinions. I will be happy to have a discussion with anyone via private e-mail. I can be reached at any of the following; bfinley at arches.uga.edu bfinley at music.cc.uga.edu bfinley1 at bellsouth.net Barry Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 97 10:14:55 EST From: Tim.Watkins at analog.com Subject: Multi-Part all grain I'm about to embark on my second batch of all grain brew. My first batch was an test/experiment one gallon brown ale which came out rather well. I don't have the capacity to do a full wort boil, and I would also like the practise with mashing and sparging and the like. I plan on making an IPA, but I wanted to get some feedback on how I plan on doing it. I'm currently able to do 3 gallon boils, with my 4 gallon stock pot. What I would like to do is this: Day one: Make a two gallon batch, blah blah blah, pitch yeast. Day two: Exactly the same, except cool this two gallon batch, and then add to the already fermenting two gallons. Day three(???): Perhaps do another two gallon batch and add this to the fermentor (about 6 gallons). Do you think this will work? I know it's an awful lot of work to do it this way, but I like doing it, and am only wondering about the technical aspect of it. Do you think any harm will come by adding more fresh wort to an already fermenting brew??? Thanks, Tim - ----------------------- Tim Watkins Applications Engineer Analog Devices, Inc. (617) 937-1428 Tim.Watkins at analog.com Return to table of contents
Date: 31 Jan 97 11:07:07 EST From: "C.PEKARIK" <74163.1163 at CompuServe.COM> Subject: Modifying chest freezer Hello brew folks Raynold J Corona asks about installing taps on the front of his freezer. REAL FUN job or should I say gamble but I did as follows. The used freezer that I modified was a huge old BOAT - 23 c.ft. Viking. Holds 10 cornies with 3 taps & 5 Co2 lines. I installed the taps on the right side front. Lift the freezer lid and at the top right corner of the inner & outer walls, you gently pry off the plastic corner piece and in turn pull the whole front plastic top piece off. You should see insulation between the walls. I would not risk using a screwdriver to dig out the sprayed in insulation!!! I used the corner tool of the vacuum cleaner with the vac on and a pointed 1/2" dowel & gently gnawed away till coils on each wall were exposed. Inside this freezer, the coils ran horizontally at approx. 2" intervals. I used a 1" hole saw to drill the shank holes. To ensure that I measured consistantly, I placed a small level across the inner & outer walls and always measured down from it. I wanted the tap handles to be below the top of the wall with the lid open so 3 3/8" down from top was drill hole centre for tap shank hole(s). Your freezer might be different so don't use my measurements. Make your measurements and drill a small test hole. Leave the drill in the hole and from the top, make sure you have enough room top & bottom of the bit for the shank hole to go between each walls coils Adjust pilot hole if necessary & drill. Since I wanted to attach a drip pan, had to burrow out the insulation to a depth of 16" and drilled 3 small holes at a depth of 15 1/4" from top and used self tapping screws to fasten the drip pan. Drilled the hole for the Co2 IN line at the top left back wall after removing a little insulation to check coil position. Replaced all insulation with new cotton candy type insulation. Be sure not to tighten the shank nut so hard as to bend in the freezer walls. Hope this helps... It took me better part of a day to do it but I was happy with the results and I'd do it again. P.S. If in the near future you plan to add another tap, drill the hole now and cover with duct tape. Larry Kress RR4 Grand Valley, Ontario, Canada Email: 74163.1163 at compuserve.com (Email # is my mates but I live here too) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 10:08:33 -0600 From: Ron Gasik <ronster388 at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: Dairy equipment > Question#3 Dairy equipment > > A friend of mine who owns a ranch gave me a Stainless steel milking > pail to help out in my brewing endevors. It's 14 inches high, 12 inches > in diameter at the bottom and 7 inches at the top (it is kind of beer > bottle shaped) and made of fairly thick stainless steel. I already have > a mash/lauter tun and this pail is kind of small for a fermentor. What > can I use this for? decoction mash? decorative planter? milking cows? I'm using one of these as a HLT for my 3-vessel, 2-tiered brewing system and it works wonderfully. It replaced the 33 qt enamelled pot that I had been using that had started to rust. I attached a ball valve and plumbed in a thermometer near the bottom. Mine holds a tad less than 8 gallons of water which is just enough sparge water for most of my 10 gallon batches. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 11:17:14 -0500 From: Tim Martin <TimM at southwest.cc.nc.us> Subject: Freshman HBD/dip tube idea Hey Neighbors, I have a suggestion that might help reach more people (Freshmen, Sophomores and Juniors) when a post is presented here and that is to provide a summary at the end of the post. I don't mean all the post just the ones that are so technical that only a pharmacist, civil engineer or chemist would understand it. Personally, when I see one of these post coming up I instantly page down to the bottom of the post looking for someone to say "to conclude" or "to summarize" or my favorite "in other words". Perhaps if we adopted this method many would not feel so intimidated and much of the very fine material posted here could be consumed by "Freshmen" hungry for information. - ---------------------- In other words. Please summarize. - ------------------------------------------------------- I don't keg but that doesn't keep me from thinking about it but could you not use one of those plastic red racking cane caps on the end of you dip tubes to help from picking up yeast from the bottom of the keg. "drink it or wear it" Tim Martin Cullowhee, NC Return to table of contents
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by BSUVC.bsu.edu From: 00bkpickeril at bsuvc.bsu.edu (Brian Pickerill) Subject: Honey, I cooked the Wyeast! / How much glycerine?,lactic acid Does anyone know if a high temp starter ferment will cause any problems later, in the actual ferment? Not wanting to wait as long for my Wyeast pack to swell, I put it near my furnace after smacking it and it swelled fully in one day (It was 4 months old Wyeast 1968). I was shocked when I later checked how warm it was on that high shelf--near 100F! Now _it's_ waiting for _me_ to get the starter ready this evening, which will of course be pitched at around 68F. I normally let my packs swell at more like 68F, and guessed--doh!-- that the spot would have been more like 80. (The heat was only set at around 66F. I will of course check the starter for any off flavors, etc... before pitching. Also, I recently froze some wyeast 3068 Wheinstephen yeast from a starter with about 50% glycerine/glycerol. This is the first time I have done this, after reading about it here some time ago. I could not remember the concentration to use, and guessed at this amount. (I also have some fairly clean yeast left over from primary which I could save if needed.) I don't brew weizens that often, and wish for some decent long term storage. The freezer is at about 20F the last time I checked, and the yeast sample never actually froze solid, which I suppose is the point of using the glycerine? Finally, is it OK to wash yeast with lactic acid? If so, what concentration should I use? How much is that with 88% lactic acid in say a quart of H2O? - --Brian Pickerill, President, Muncie Malt Mashers, Muncie, IN PS. Three cheers for the new digest janators and contributors. Thanks! Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 10:35:09 -0600 From: blacksab at midwest.net (Harlan Bauer) Subject: Newbies, Freshman digest, and agar Let us try not to forget that each of us have something to learn from one another by virtue of our different experiences, both in brewing and in real life. It is precisely the most expert among us who can miss the obvious which is then revealed to us by the novice who looks at the problem with fresh eyes; and the novice will learn much from those more expert than they by patiently looking over the master's shoulder. It was not a scientist who *discovered* agar for use as a solid media, but the wife of an assistant who had been using agar to set her jams. TTYL, Harlan ********************************************************************* * * * Harlan Bauer ...malt does more than Milton can * * Carbondale, IL To justify God's ways to man. * * <blacksab at midwest.net> --A.E. Houseman * * * ********************************************************************* Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 11:39:31 -0500 (EST) From: MaltyDog at aol.com Subject: Using Clinitest for Keg-Conditioning Beers In HBD #2328, David Burley wrote: >Also, the hydrometer is an "approximate" measurement of the sugar content not an >"accurate" one and difficult to use, at best, in fermenting beer. Only if you know the >final gravity accurately ( which you can't at the time of measurement) will the SG >give you a good value of fermentable sugar. That's why I use Clinitest at the >end of the primary fermentation. Bubbles don't bother it and it measures >reducible sugars only, which is an excellent approximation (and maybe an >accurate measure) of the fermentable sugar content at that point in the >fermentation. I posted the original question about Keg conditioning beers, mentioning the Diabetes test, which I guess is Clinitest. I didn't know the name at the time. Anyway, how do you use Clinitest? What is the proper reading to keg at? This was what I was trying to ask. I agree that a hydrometer is not going to tell you exactly what you need to know; it can't differentiate between sugars and dextrins, as noted above. I would be interested in hearing more. Thanks, Bill Coleman MaltyDog at aol.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 10:53:09 -0600 (CST) From: korz at xnet.com Subject: esters/hydrogen sulphide/doppelbock yst/false bottoms/long lag/BW starter John writes: >Lately I have found myself in need of some info pertaining to >esters. I would greatly appreciate some help from the organic >chemistry gurus as to what exactly an ester is and more importantly >what they taste like in beer. <snip> Well, I'm no chemistry guru so I have translated (with some chemists' help) many chemical concepts into laypeoples' terms before storing them in my head. Esters are compounds that are sort of like alcohols bonded to acids. My understanding is that they can be created without intervention by yeast, but that process is very slow. The yeast, however, can create the bond much more quickly. The aroma/flavour imparted by esters can range from fruity to solventy to flowery. Isoamyl acetate (isoamyl alcohol and acetic acid), is a fruity ester (bananas) whereas ethyl acetate (ethyl alcohol and acetic acid) smells solventy (some say like nailpolish remover). There are also esters that smell like strawberries, grapes, roses... virtually every fruit aroma/flavour is possible. What increases ester production is still under some debate here (high oxygen, low oxygen, high amino acid levels, low amino acid levels). Two factors that are undisputed are temperature and yeast volume. Low temperatures and high pitching volumes tend to reduce ester production. The opposites, of course, increase ester production. Each yeast has it's own tendency to produce certain esters which is partly why yeast strain has such a strong influence on the character of the beer. Also, some yeasts (like Wyeast #1056 American Ale) don't produce as high levels of esters as other yeasts at the same temperature. *** Mark writes: >Al quoted an uncertain major brewing text: >>yeast will reduce hydrogen sulphide in the beer (to sulphate, according to I checked... it's The Practical Brewer, p.243. Also, I'd like to point out that I'm using the word "reduce" in the laypersons' way, i.e. decrease. Dave Bradley pointed out to me in private email that the process is actually "oxidation" and not "reduction" in the chemical sense, although the bottom line is that the yeast decreases the level of hydrogen sulphide in the beer. *** Chris writes: >Primary & secondary at 50-55* >Diacetyl rest at 60-65* for 3 days. >reduce temp. back to 50*, bottle, & lager in fridge at 40* > >Can I use a Wyeast 2206 Bavarian or should I go with the California Lager >yeast? For a Doppelbock, I would go for the 2206 Bavarian. Actually, I would recommend making a Vienna or German Pils first and then pitching the Doppelbock wort on top of the yeast cake. Even with a huge starter, the yeast will have some difficulty handling all that OG. Also, with all that OG it's almost unavoidable that you are going to get ester levels above threshold, so the big yeast cake from a previous batch will help keep the ester levels from getting outrageously high. *** Chuck writes: >Am I right in assuming that it is not a good idea to have a false bottom >which is smaller in diameter than the lauter tun it will fit into? I have a >9.5 inch diameter Phil's False Bottom that I hopefully would like to use in a >10 galllon round cooler, the diameter of which is almost 13 inches. Will the >efficiency of my sparge be reduced because the false bottom is not fully >covering the bottom of the tun? Theoretically, yes, but practically, the difference is very small. See my article in the Great Grains Special Issue of Zymurgy. The bottom line is that there is not that much difference between the laeutering systems that draw from very small areas (like the EasyMasher(tm)) or ones that draw from much larger areas (like the Pico Brewing System or Phil's Phalse Bottom). My tests showed differences in extraction, but since it was a very small sample size (n=1!), we can't really ascribe any firm numbers (although I did ;^) to these systems... the bottom line is that the differences are much less than 20% (I'm very confident of that). *** John writes: >I have brewed three batches of ale. One took off >within four hours after pitching like Mt. Etna. The other two, I have >had to get down on my knees and beg for 3 and 5 days to get the thing to >even fart a bubble. > >I have been extreeeemely sanitary. I used dry yeast (whitbread was the >last one) and started the yeast for 15 minutes in 105 degree water for 15 >minutes prior to pitching at 74 degrees in the carboy. I don't have an >aerator but I did shake it for 5 minutes before pitching (You try shaking >a 5 gallon carboy for more than 5 minutes). Firstly, are you sure that the yeast didn't take off and ferment while you weren't looking? That's more common than you might think. One way to tell that you have missed the volcanic part of the ferment is to look for a brown ring around the fermenter, just above the surface of the beer. Secondly, could the yeast be dead (frozen? overheated? old? unrefrigerated?)? I've seen unrefrigerated dry yeast in may HB shops. After six months, kept at warm temperatures, a 3-day lag time would be expected and a 5-day lag time would not be surprising. Everything else sounds good except one thing: you didn't temper your rehydrated yeast. Dumping 105F yeast into 74F wort is going to shock them. What Lallemand recommends is called "tempering." Rehydrate your yeast in a vessel that is four times the size of the initial rehydrating water. Then, after 15 to 30 minutes of rehydration, quadruple the volume by slowly (about a minute) adding your wort to the yeast. This isn't mandatory, some yeast strains are more sensitive than others to temperature shock and also this maximizes the number of yeast cells that survive which is especially important if your yeast is old or has been mishandled. >Question 2, I'm just going to be making Ales until the budget throws in >another fridge. Do I need to aerate? My brewshop says no and the book I >got doesn't even mention it. Also, what's the diff between a fish pump >and an aerestone? Yes! Get a new brewshop and a new book. A fish pump (aquarium pump) simply pumps air. An airstone is a device that goes on the output end of the hose (the pump or tank of air/oxygen being at the input end) and makes the air or oxygen come out in many tiny bubbles rather than fewer big bubbles. The small bubbles have more surface area and will dissolve the gas into the wort faster, but they do cause foaming, so some homebrewers have taken to *not* using airstones and running their pumps much longer. *** John writes: >Yeast Starter Question-- Recently I tried making a 1.040 gravity yeast starter >as opposed to a 1.020 gravity starter thinking that I would get more yeast to >pitch into my first barleywine attempt. Thinking about the aeration thread, For Barleywines, I recommend you make a 5-gallon batch of a weaker beer and then use the whole yeast cake for the Barleywine wort. Trust me. As for 1.020 versus 1.040 starter gravity, I know 1.020 is recommended by some, but I usually use 1.040 wort for my starters and it works great. >Underhopped Ale in Kenya: I wouldn't think a hop tea would increase your >bitterness. You gurus out there can correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the >bitterness was part of boiling the hops with the malt and the higher the wort >concentration, the more hops you need for the same bitterness level. If it Boiling hops in water will indeed give you bitterness. The malt is not necessary and, in fact (just as you indicated), the higher-gravity the wort, the lower the hop utilisation. My only concern regarding boiling hops in water for adding bitterness is that the pH could be too high and may extract a lot of astringency and colour. I would recommend acidifying the water to about 5.3 pH before boiling the hops in it. Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 12:07:14 -0500 (EST) From: TheTHP at aol.com Subject: Recipe Analysis thread, Green Beer, Fruit beers Greetings HBDers, Newbies and Pros alike, I love the Idea sponserd by Shane Saylor about starting a thread on how to formulate our own recipes. I know I could use some pointers on how to figure out if your recipe is "balanced". We all have books and articles that have recipes and we can go to the local HB store and figure out what ingredients are available to make xyz beer. But this is recipe formulation by "interpolation" How do you KNOW how many alpha acids hops balance so many pounds of malt? What hop combinations provide "balance" and which combinations should inherently be avoided? This is a huge topic, but this is a huge forum. Yes, someone at the AOB could dedicate a Special Issue on this topic alone..Hint hint...but this years is rumored to be a new Hop issue. Every good thread needs a good starting point. To narrow down the possiblities I think it would be good to start in familiar territory. Pale Ale. Most everyone has made pale ale before. We also need an international standard we all can compare against. Bass Pale Ale (lets not resurface the Bass in an IPA thread again shall we) Pale Ale is simple enough for Newbies and Bass is complex (and delicious ) enough to keep the expericed interested. I have collected several different recipe formulas for Bass, Ill include my own and if your interesed in others let me know and Ill send them to you. Frog (not Bass) Pale Ale #1 12/23/96 9 lbs 2 row pale ale malt (Marris Otter) 1 lb 60 degree Crystal (Munton's) 1 lb dextrine malt (Munton's Cara Pils) Mash at 152 deg F for 1 hour or till iodine test negative Mashout at 169 deg F for 10 min Sparge with 170 deg F water to collect a total of 7.5 gal Sparge time approx 1.25 hours add 8 oz Dark brown sugar add 8 oz Light brown sugar add 4 tsp gypsum to boil for flavor adjust pH of boil to 5.2 total boil 1hr 20 min 10.5 AAU Northern Brewer hops - 60 min 7.3 AAU Fuggles (Oregon) - 30 min 1 tsp of Irish Moss - 15 (Rehydrated 45 min previous) cooled in 15 min (3/16 copper w/ 1/4 Helically wound radial finned emersion chiller) Heat transfer rate of 80%=212F to 70F in 15 min! pitched Wyeast London Ale yeast (400 ml starter) yield to primary: just over 6 gal IG: 1.050 FG: 1.008 Beer fermented ~65F 9 days (1.052), Racked to seconday 10.12 (Keg) 1 week then chilled and force carbonated. Tastes good to great. Is darker, very cloudy (forgot to add the Irish Moss), and is sweeter than the bottle of Bass we compared it to during the superbowl. I used 10 lb of pale because I knew my efficiency was really bad. Recipe calls for 9 Lb. The nose was also off a little bit also. I know the fuggles is right on, but what else could I use for bittering In the future? Comments suggestions???? - ----------- I have been asked to make a green beer for St. Pattys day, Has anyone out there have a special "Green" recipe? The request came the same friend who likes fruit beers, something else I havent done. So what If used Kiwi's - thier green, and in season now, 10 for a buck. how would I prepare, use kiwi's is a beer? Phil Poison Frog Home Brewery Return to table of contents