---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@ brew.oeonline.com
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Finings (Amdahl engineer)
  re: coffee stout (Michael Neely)
  Vacuum Vessels (eric fouch)
  Re: PHE (Joe Rolfe)
  Re: Big and Huge / Never Relax (Note the *NEW* address)" <keith at ays.net>
  Trip to St Louis (Cam Warren)
  vacuum distillation safety (Dave Whitman)
  IBU Calculation (Pat Anderson)
  Old Bottles and Lemon Zest (Aeoleus)
  Re: IBU calculation methods (Philip Hofstrand)
  Re: Freezers (Darren Gaylor)
  Fermentap / Coffee / Keg Tips / Fusels? (RANDY ERICKSON)
  Dry hopping (John Wilkinson)
  yeast infections (Rae Christopher J)
  Re: Lemon Zest ("Decker, Robin E.")
  Zest! ("Penn, Thomas")
  Rye/Wheat Beer (Rick Olivo)
  re:Coffee Stout, carboy fermenter (Charles Burns)
  Re: Lemon Zest  (May 13, 1997) ("Frederick Hooper")
  Re: Marketing HBing /whole hops /More, Quick BUZZ??? (Brian Pickerill)
  white residue in carboy (Randy Ricchi)
  efficiency/force-carbonation (2)/B-vitamins/homebrew potency (korz)
  dextrin malt haze/potency/astringency/sanitizing valves/reinventing (korz)
  Sorry... (korz)
  Beer mix gas screwup (Hal Davis)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 10:39:31 +0200
From: amdahl at oldmutual.com (Amdahl engineer)
Subject: Finings

>I have to ask, "Why are some of you putting so
>much shit into your beer?".  Irish moss, gelatin, chopped fish guts,
>your wifes' panty hose.  Have you people no limitations?  

I find that for hoppy ales it's important to clear the beer with finings.
The hops profile changes over a month and by the time the beer has been in
the secondary for a month, its has lost the FRESH hop flavour- I like it
fresh and reasonable clear. Stouts, brown ales and lagers I do not always fine. 

Rian


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Date: Tue, 13 May 97 06:31:28 -0400
From: Michael Neely <mn at caveartstudios.com>
Subject: re: coffee stout

We have just completed our fisrt batch of Imperial Espresso Stout by 
adding 1/2 pound of freshly ground espresso at 3 minutes prior to 
straining into the fermentation bucket.  The taste is excellent, with 
only slight bitterness.

I would, however, recommend liquid yeast.  It seems the coffee had an 
adverse effect on the dry yeast we pitched, and we don't know why.  Does 
anyone have any insight to this side issue?

Thanks,
Mike

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Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 07:11:24 -0500 (EST)
From: eric fouch <S=fouch%G=eric%DDA=ID=STC021.efouch%0004972576 at mcimail.com>
Subject: Vacuum Vessels


- --Boundary (ID i.g+01I_ITJSAW,TPG9-34Q4.PDGI2IG)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

- -----------------------------
Application message id:  STC010 970513080922825871
Posted date:  TUE MAY 13, 1997  4:09 am  GMT
Importance:  Normal
Grade of Delivery:  Normal
 
- -----------------------------


- --Boundary (ID i.g+01I_ITJSAW,TPG9-34Q4.PDGI2IG)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Description: 7 BIT ASCII


Date: Tuesday, 13 May 1997 8:06am ET
To: STC012.HOMEBREW at STC010.SNADS
From: Eric.Fouch at STC001
Subject: Vacuum Vessels
In-Reply-To: The letter of Tuesday, 13 May 1997 2:14am ET
 
HBD-
Kit asks about using ordinary glass vessels for vacuum distillation per my
ASCII art attempt.  I would not recommend this, as a vessel not rated for
pressure could implode upon introduction of reduced pressure.  I've seen this
kind of thing happen in the lab when people incorrectly use things like
graduated cylinders for cold fingers or solvent traps.  After a few uses..
FOOMMP]]] and glass goes everywhere.
A vacuum gage and a pressure cooker should work.  After the alcohol is boiled
off, the pressure would start to drop again.  at this point the alcohol
content should be pretty low.  Then, to test the Reno-BATF theory, you could
put a smaller Buchner flask in line between the pressure cooker and the
aspirator, immersed in an ice bath, and collect the alcohol...you know, just
to measure its volume, and see if there's any hop aroma in it (hic).
 
By the way, I WAS drinking a homebrew during the National Anthem (NA beer?)
when Lucy Lawless (Xena, Warrior Princess) took off her jacket and raised
her left arm in triumph on the last note of the NA, giving us a glimpse of
just what gives her all that leverage during a parry-thrust (nice pecs).
"Another quality performance by the folks here at Disney" (Anaheim)...
was the only comment by the announcers.
I'm a new fan.
 
Eric Fouch
"Did you SEE that??]?]"
Bent Dick YactoBrewery
Kentwood MI


- --Boundary (ID i.g+01I_ITJSAW,TPG9-34Q4.PDGI2IG)--

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Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 08:36:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Joe Rolfe <onbc at shore.net>
Subject: Re: PHE

 the phe that alpha laval has is relatively small, but the company
will supply a sheet that gives the thermal performance.

i doubt you will have any problems using it just insure you  are 
using as sanitary as possible fittings on cold wort out. i talked to the
rep at a beer show in boston about them, he said he had one at home for
such a purpose.  you will have to play with the flow rates some but it
is properly sized for 10 to 15 gallons in about 30 minutes (or less) 
ice cold water/glycol will help.  you may need two pumps tho.
if i were going to use the phe i would do two things.

some how valve the outlets (coolant and wort) and put a good thermo 
	on the wort outlet.  you can then control it better.

put a bag in tube type mesh filter on the wort inlet.  this will keep the
majority of the crap out of it. be especially carefull of whole hops, the 
leaves really get stuck in there.

for cleaning use very strong caustic. 2-3% should do it. you will want to get
 a good pump (high pressure - be carefull hard plumb it).  cleaning should
entail a reverse flush until the waste runs clear then atleast 10 minutes
of recirc both directions. if you can get the temp gauge to read 180F for 
this amount of time - nothing will live in it.  cool it down with a cold 
water flush. if your really worried take a aseptic sample of the rinse water 
and plate for beer/wort spoilers and wild yeast etc...

what i used to do with mine before use was use a clorinated tsp cleaner
sanitizer for 1 hr, rinse and 30 min with iodine.  






good luck
joe


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Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 09:04:12 +0500
From: "Keith Royster (Note the *NEW* address)" <keith at ays.net>
Subject: Re: Big and Huge / Never Relax

Robert Paolino <rpaolino at execpc.com> says:

> The 11th Annual Big and Huge was (ironically?) the smallest in
> recent memory. Indeed, every competition I've judged this year (and
> I judge pretty regularly) has been way down on entries.  Are people
> not brewing anymore, or are they just burned out on competitions? 
> (I have to admit that it's been a long time since I've entered a
> competition, so I suppose I'm guilty, too.)

Yes, the Carolina BrewMaster's recent 1997 U.S.Open competition was 
also smaller than years past.  It still was a good sized competition 
with 152 entries, but also noticeably smaller than the 200-250 entries 
of years past.

These are only guesses, but we attributed it to a few different 
factors.  First, the hobby has grown in popularity and thus so have 
competitions.  Thus the number of entries gets spread thinner.  
Secondly, timing with other local competitions.  Normally we receive 
a number of entries from one brewer, but this year the number of 
multiple entries was smaller.  Other local brewclubs had competitions 
about a month before ours so perhaps people who normally would have 
entered more beers only sent their winners. And finally, Steve 
Peeler, our clubs brewing machine who normally enters 25 to 30 
*different* beers did not enter a single beer this year because he 
was constructing a new RIMS and didn't have it up and running in time 
to brew anything for the competition.  Somehow I think this last 
reason probably doesn't effect most other competitions, though;)

- ---------------------
Ray Estrella's sig line reads:

> "Never relax, constantly worry, have a better homebrew." 

Better perhaps, but can you still enjoy the process and the final
product if you are so stressed and busy worrying?  Just curious. (Oh
no! Not another AR thread! ;)



Keith Royster - Mooresville, North Carolina
"An Engineer is someone who measures it with a micrometer,
marks it with a piece of chalk, and cuts it with an ax!"

mailto:keith at ays.net
http://www.ays.net - at your.service web design & hosting
http://www.ays.net/brewmasters -Carolina BrewMasters club page 
http://www.ays.net/RIMS -My RIMS (rated COOL! by the Brewery)

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Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 08:00:05 -0500
From: Cam Warren <cam at quadnt.ceco.com>
Subject: Trip to St Louis

Hi All:

	I'm planning a trip to the St Louis area over the Memorial Day weekend and
I was wondering if anyone could tell me of any don't miss brew pubs. I'll
be staying downtown near Laclede's Landing.

Thanks in advance
Cam Warren	
MIS
Quad Cities Nuclear Plant
cam at quadnt.ceco.com

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Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 09:23:02
From: Dave Whitman <dwhitman at rohmhaas.com>
Subject: vacuum distillation safety

I missed the start of this thread, but in HBD#2417, I noted a dangerous
suggestion in passing:

>Eric Fouch suggested a Buchner flask for vacuum distillation. You have
>stoppered mouth on the flask and a spout out the side. Why not just a hose
>attached to a hole in the stopper of any glass vessel?

Buchner flasks are optimized for vacuum filtration at room temperature, and
are NOT designed for heating.  The shape and wall thickness are all wrong,
and they tend to crack if heated on the bottom.  If bottom-heated under
vacuum, you are risking a dangerous implosion.  The thick walls and awkward
shape generate a lot of internal stress if you heat the bottom of the flask
while the walls are still cool.

If you must try this be sure to heat the flask uniformly over the entire
surface - immerse it in a hot water bath, or stick it in an oven.   A
better strategy would be to use a thinner walled spherical flask, with a
vacuum adapter.  We call the flasks "round bottoms".  These are much safer
to bottom heat.


- ---
Dave Whitman          "The opinions expressed are those of the author, and not
dwhitman at rohmhaas.com  Rohm and Haas Co."


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Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 06:16:47 -0700
From: Pat Anderson <pata at aa.net>
Subject: IBU Calculation

>In my setup, Glenn's numbers have consistently given me results that
>come exceedingly close to what I expect.  Rager's are next closest,
>but I have experienced underbittering when using his values.  As
>mentioned above, I got seriously overbittered beer when I used the
>Garetz numbers.  If I had to recommend one, I would recommend
>Glenn's, but I would strongly urge anyone who really gives a damn to
>try all three and then try to get as accurate a bitterness estimate
>of the finished product as possible to see which works best *for
>you.

Since IBU by definition is something that can only be determined by lab
analysis, there is no way to tell which formula for predicting IBUs is
"best" without a series of lab trials to compare to predicted IBU levels.
So far as I know, this has not been done, at least I haven't read about it.
Anything else ("I used his values and it was under-bittered") seems just too
subjective.  Comparing home brews with predicted levels to commercial beers
with known IBU levels might be better, but still, the only way to get it
accurately is in the lab.  Maybe one method is bettter in the range 20 - 30
iBUS, another from 30 - 40 IBUs and still another over 40, who knows?  I
just use my little Windoze program based on Dave's BASIC program and Glenn's
data, whether or not it accurately predicts IBUs is irrelevant, as has been
noted, it helps me achieve consistency and repeatability.  If I really
wanted to know if my "40 IBU beer" actually _has_ 40 IBUs, I guess I could
have it tested.
- ---
Pat Anderson <pata at aa.net>


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Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 10:18:58 -0400
From: Aeoleus <osiris at net-link.net>
Subject: Old Bottles and Lemon Zest

> Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 21:04:04 -0700
> From: Brian Amick <baamick at seidata.com>
> Subject: old bottles
> 
> I am very new to brewing so I have a lot to learn.  This weekend I was
> able to pick up at auction a case of old beer bottles for $1.00.  The
> state tax stamp was in the bottom of the box.  It was dated 8-13-42.  The
> bottles are very dirty but I found only one with a chip on the bottom.
> They are much heavier than new longnecks.  Would these be alright to
> bottle into, after a thorough cleaning, of course?  By the way, the state
> tax on a case in 1942 was $.09.

If I were you, I'd clean them up decently and then return them
to the store.  Take your $2.40 and buy 24 decent quality bottles
from your homebrew supply store.

> 
> ------------------------------
> 

> Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 23:36:17 -0400
> From: Peter Ellison <pellison at ix.netcom.com>
> Subject: Brewing with fruit
> 
> Fellow Brewers,
> 
> I have been homebrewing for about four months now and am about to
> endeavor upon a lemon wheat beer.  The recipe (from the Homebrewer's
> Recipe Guide) calls for the *Zest* of 1 lemon.  I have seen other fruit
> recipes in this book calling for the Zest of a fruit.  My question is,
> what do they mean by the zest? Do I just use the juice of a lemon? Or,
> do I use the juice and the pulp?  I hope someone can shed some light on
> this for me.

The zest is where the good lemony flavour is.  Get a lemon grater or
(if you're not the frugal gourmet) grab a sharp fillet knife and shave
the skin of the lemon, getting only the yellow stuff off.  Try not to
get into the peel, that's not a desireable flavour.  Anyhow, the zest
is simply the yellow part of the lemon peel.

- -- Brian Ream                                         Kalamazoo Michigan
- -- mailto:osiris at net-link.net            http://www.net-link.net/~osiris
- -- Never call someone stupid and misspell it.

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Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 07:40:14 -0700
From: Philip Hofstrand <philiph at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: IBU calculation methods

In HBD 2416, Dave Draper wrote:

> I won't go into detail here because you can check it out yourself at
> Glenn's hop page at the RealBeer site (http://realbeer.com/hops/);
> but one fundamental difference between his results and those of
> Rager and Garetz is the shape of the utilization curve-- his (and
> Mosher's if memory serves) is decidedly S-shaped, whereas the Rager
> formulation assumes a much more linear relationship.

Hmm, shame on you, Dave, for not checking out the web site you reference.
Glenn Tinseth's utilization curve is not sigmoidal, but rises rapidly for
about 45 minutes, and then levels off to approach a maximum value of about
25-26%. The graph at http://realbeer.com/hops/research.html shows a
representative curve from the formula. I definitely agree with Dave that
Glenn's numbers seem to have the strongest empirical basis, and have
noticed that the bitterness in my beers has been much more predictable
after using them. Also note that Glenn's formula includes a constant which
can be adjusted to change the maximum utilization value, allowing us
brewers to customize the curve to fit to our own systems.

Until Next Time,
Phil

- --
Philip Hofstrand <philiph at u.washington.edu>, Seattle, WA

        In taberna quando sumus, non curamus quid sit humus
    When we are in the tavern, we spare no thought for the grave
                                        --Carl Orff, "Carmina Burana"



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Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 08:49:32 -0800
From: Darren Gaylor <dwgaylor at pacifier.com>
Subject: Re: Freezers

My input on freezers.

Randy asks:
>     Also, I purchased a chest freezer last weekend and I am using a
>     Penn-Johnson Controls external thermostat set at 40 df. What setting
>     should I use on the original freezer thermostat? It's currently on 3
>     (on a scale of 9 = coldest), I would set it on the coldest setting
>     except that if the external thermostat fails and the freezer stays on
>     I would rather it not get down to the coldest freezer setting. Is this
>     a valid concern?

     My chest freezer (at it's highest setting) will still freeze beer. 
If my
     controller freaks on me, I'll have a nice mess.  (Knock on wood).
     The instructions say to set it as low as it will go, which is what
I did.
     I don't think it will really make much of a difference, unless
you're 
     trying to make an Eisbock.

Eric asks:
>     I have an opportunity to buy an upright freezer 
>     for pretty cheap.  Can the brewers thermostats that 
>     I have heard of work with freezers as well as refrigerators?  
>     Is an upright Freezer desirable?  I would like to use this 
>     for lagering/keg storage.  Any thoughts?

     My upright freezer has coils running through the shelves which
     makes it impossible for me to use for lagering.  (It freezes food
     pretty good.)  The thermostats would work with an upright.  I
     got the upright so that I could use our chest freezer for lagering.
     It holds four carboys perfectly.  Just don't stick your head in it
     during primary fermentation, the smell is quite unique (and
concentrated).

Darren Gaylor in Vancouver, USA

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Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 10:15:39 -0700
From: RANDY ERICKSON <RANDYE at mid.org>
Subject: Fermentap / Coffee / Keg Tips / Fusels?

In case I didn't make sense in my description of the Fermentap, there's a
picture at the Manufacturer's web site: 
http://www.concentric.net/~fermntap
No affiliation, not a customer, etc......
************

Many years ago I used a "cold water extraction" method for brewing
coffee extract.  It involved mixing one lb. of fresh ground coffee with
maybe two quarts of cold water, letting it sit overnight, and draining
through a reusable fiber filter.  The extract was stored in a carafe, and
used like instant -- actually I froze it in ice cube trays and used one cube
per cup of water in the microwave.  It made a wonderful strong,
aromatic coffee with very little bitterness.  I'd suggest the same principle,
i.e. make a strong cold extract and add it to the _secondary_ so that less
aroma is lost during the ferment.  You could also add it at bottling/kegging
time.
**********

Eddie Kent has some questions about his first time:
Subject: First Time Priming Cornie Kegs
>>> 
I'm not sure if I have a seal problem with my cornie keg.  When filled
with Iodophor solution and 40 Lbs pressure, it has very little pressure
on it when I check it the next morning- is this a result of carbonating
the iodophor solution? When I fill it with just CO2, it doesn't lose
pressure over night. 
<<<
I used to get leaks when I first started too, usually from not getting a
good enough seal.  Using a high initial pressure (like 30 lbs) is a good
start.  I usually sanitize the keg lid with the o-ring in place with boiling
water -- softening the o-ring seems to help a lot.  I also lift up on the lid
and use the weight of the full keg to help make the seal before I ever flip
the bail into place.  If you have the CO2 hooked up while you do this, you
can tell if you have any leaks or not.  Once you're confident in the seal,
bleed off the gas and let the natural carbonization take place.

>>>
Also, what pressure should I put the keg under while allowing
it to condition (I'm guessing around 10 Lbs. of CO2 pressure)and what
pressure should it be stored at to retain the same level of carbonation
after tapping ?
<<<
Depends on the temperature and the desired carbonization level.  You
can find a temp vs pressure vs CO2 volume chart in the Stanford
archives and probably at the Brewery.  Actually if you are priming with
DME or sugar, you don't want to use _any_ external gas pressure while
conditioning -- it'll defeat your purpose.  For dispensing, start with the
lowest setting you need to get beer to flow, and adjust upward if you
find that you start to lose carbonation.  One I get a beer properly
carbonated, I usually dispense 2 or 3 glasses with no gas attached, and
only give it a 10 second "shot" when I notice that it takes significantly
longer to pour a glass.
**********

I just kegged a 10 gallon batch of ESB this weekend.  I think I hit my mark
pretty well, but it was hot enough out here that I'm pretty sure it
fermented in the neighborhood of 80 degrees F.  (I used Wyeast 1968).  
It's a decent beer but it tastes a touch, well fusel.  Not solvent like or
super-objectionable, but with a harsh bitterness at the back of the
tongue.  I'm sure I'll be able to drink it, but I'd like to know what you all
think about the chances that what I'm assuming are fusel or higher
alcohols will mellow with age or cold-conditioning?

Thanks -- Randy



Randy Erickson
Modesto Irrigation District
Modesto, California
randye at mid.org (Business)
randye at worldnet.att.net (Home)

"Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer." -- Henry
Lawson



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Date: Tue, 13 May 97 11:23:39 CDT
From: jwilkins at imtn.tpd.dsccc.com (John Wilkinson)
Subject: Dry hopping

I usually drop hop my ales but am not sure how long to leave them on the hops.
I generally leave the beer in the primary fermenter 1-2 weeks and then rack to
carboys for settling and dry hopping.  I usually leave the beer on the hops
for a week but wondered if longer would be any better or if the maximum
benefit is reached after a week.  Is there a downside to leaving the beer
on the hops longer?

John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkins at imtn.dsccc.com

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Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 12:50:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: Rae Christopher J <3cjr7 at qlink.queensu.ca>
Subject: yeast infections

re the question of beer contributing to yeast infections.  the classic
vaginal, genital, breast, and epidermal (skin) yeast infections are caused
by candida albicans, a very specific strain of fungus unrelated to beer
yeast.  this is a fact.  unfortunately, what is also a fact is that the
consumption of bread, beer, wine, and other types of yeast has been
strongly correlated with an increase in the frequency and severity of
candida infections.  i have never read a good paper expaining why this is,
so i won't pass on possibly invalid information.  other dietary factors
that influence yeast infections are the amount of sugars consumed.  thus,
a heavy beer, with lots of unfermented dextrins, will also contribute to
yeast infections.  so, how does your wife continue to enjoy the fine
product of your love (beer that is, beer)?  like this:

dietary changes can also improve resistance to candida.  eating _lots_ of
live yogourt can make a huge difference.  the problem here is that the
labels of yogourts invariably say "active yogourt cultures".  this is not
the same as live yogourt.  the only brand available in canada with live
cultures is Astro (tm).  if you can't get this, take live lactoacilus
pills, available at any health food store.  another good thing to eat
(drink) is fresh, pure cranberry juice.  again, this is not the same as
cranberry juice from concentrate that you can buy at the grocery store.
most health food stores, and some grocery stores, will carry frozen pure
cranberry juice, or you can make your own with freshly frozen crnaberries
(the freeze/thaw cycle makes it easier to pulp).  one caveate is that you
should not drink cranberry juice if you are prone to kidney stones, unless
your doctor says it's ok--some stones are made of different substances,
and i don't want to be held libel for telling which these are.  finally,
always wear a condom during sex (use a dam for any oral stuff).  candida
is often transmitted asymptomatically from the partner of a woman who is
prone to the symptomatic infections.  my partner is quite prone to yeast
infections, and these changes have made a huge difference.

___________________________________________________________
This is Chris' signature:

C____ R__
    &%

 His home page is at http://qlink.queensu.ca/~3cjr7/


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Date: Tue, 13 May 97 13:01:00 -0500
From: "Decker, Robin E." <robind at rmtgvl.rmtinc.com>
Subject: Re: Lemon Zest


Mike asks:
>>>The recipe (from the Homebrewer's Recipe Guide) calls for the *Zest* of 1 
lemon.  I have seen other fruit recipes in this book calling for the Zest of 
a fruit.  My question is, what do they mean by the zest? Do I just use the 
juice of a lemon? Or,
do I use the juice and the pulp?  <<<

The zest is the colored part of the peel, the very thin outside layer (I can 
use big technical terms, too<g>).  You need a special device called a 
*zester* to remove the zest.  You do not want any of the underlying white 
*pith*, because it is very bitter.  Since you do not know what a zester 
looks like, I suggest you go to a gourmet cookware store (Williams-Sonoma), 
and ask a clerk to show you a zester.  Then go to Kmart, and buy one for 1/2 
to 1/3 the price that Chuck Williams wants for it!  If you know anyone who 
bakes alot, they will also know what it is, and may even loan you one.

Good luck with your new toy!

Goldy in S. Carolina

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Date: 13 May 1997 13:06:45 -0400
From: "Penn, Thomas" <penn#m#_thomas at msgw.vf.lmco.com>
Subject: Zest!

Regarding Lemon Zest:
the zest of the lemon is the grated rind.  Use a "zester" if you have one,
which takes off little strips of rind.  Or just use a grater, with a fine
grate.  Don't grate too deep, or you get into the pulpy lecithin layer.  If
you can get un-waxed fruit, all the better-I'm not sure what it takes to get
the wax off.  Note that the zest contains primarily lemon oil, so you get a
concentrated lemon flavor, but not any sugar or sweetness as from juice.

Tom Penn
Bordentown, NJ

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Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 13:12:48 -0500
From: Rick Olivo <ashpress at win.bright.net>
Subject: Rye/Wheat Beer

I am looking for an all grain wheat/rye recipie using flaked wheat and
flaked rye as well as two-row base malt. The proposed batch will be 10
gallons. I was thinking of something on the order of 10 pounds of 2 row, 4
pounds each of rye and wheat, maybe 2 pounds of vienna and 20 L. crystal.
Also would use some honey. Am interested what the collective thinks; Am I
creating beer or toxic waste? I am also interested in hopping schedules
etc. I am thinking of a single infusion with a protein rest. I propose to
use a Wyeast 1056, and would like some thoughts on this as well. Thanks in
advance for all assistance. Private e-mail or response here is fine. 

Strange Brewer aka Rick Olivo
Vitae sine Cervisiae Suget!!!
(Life without beer sucks!!!) (With apologies to Cicero)



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Date: Tue, 13 May 97 11:18 PDT
From: cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns)
Subject: re:Coffee Stout, carboy fermenter

Braam Greyling asks for coffee stout recipes in hbd#2415. Here's one that
receives rave reviews from friends, going to competition for first time this
spring:

Rescue Stout

Malts/Sugars:
  0.25	lb.	Black Patent             
  0.50	lb.	Chocolate                
  1.50	lb.	Crystal  80L             
  0.75	lb.	Roast Barley             
  8.00	lb.	Pale Ale                 

Hops:
 0.50	oz.	N. Brewer      	 7.2%	60 min
 0.50	oz.	N. Brewer      	 7.2%	15 min

Boil temperature of water: 212F
Grain Starting Temperature: 65F
Desired Grain/Water Ratio: 1. quarts/pound
Strike Water:  2.75 gallons of water at 177F
First Mash Temperature: 155F

Notes:
This Espresso Stout adds 1/4 pound espresso beans (crushed not ground)
at the end of the boil (steep in grain bag for 15 minutes). 

The Yeast is WYeast Scottish (1728) - low attenuation.
OG = 1.052
FG = 1.011 after 5 days.
==========================================================================
In hbd#2416, Ronald LaBorde responds to Kim regarding construction of a
carboy fermenter vessel:

<snip>
Every time you drain from the bottom, air will be sucked into the top
through the airlock.
You may get oxygen into your wort here. You could run come CO2 over the
airlock, or better yet, have a smaller input tube inserted in the same
stopper as the airlock and run some CO2 slowly into the headspace (very low
pressure and rate!!) it will bubble out the airlock, and as you drain from
the bottom air will not enter. After draining, remove gas and cap the input
tube.

Charley (me): Why not fill a balloon with C02, slip it over the top of the
airlock's air intake tube just before opening the bottom valve? Just make
sure to get enough C02 into the balloon to balance the volume of trub and/or
yeast that will be poured out the bottom.

and

<snip> Just remember the primary rule when you are fooling around with your
fermenter - always have a homebrew when brewing.

<snip>

I know this was said in fun, but seriously, if you're cutting class I'd hold
off on the homebrew. And make sure to get that inside edge beveled to
eliminate a really dangerously sharp nuisance.

Charley
Charley


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Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 14:14:55 EST5EDT
From: "Frederick Hooper" <fred at UMS1.Lan.McGill.CA>
Subject: Re: Lemon Zest  (May 13, 1997)

Hi Mike,
Lemon zest usually refers to grating from the  lemon peel.
Fred
Fred at ums1.mcgill.ca    

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Date-warning: Date header was inserted by BSUVC.bsu.edu
From: 00bkpickeril at bsuvc.bsu.edu (Brian Pickerill)
Subject: Re: Marketing HBing /whole hops /More, Quick BUZZ???

>From: mbarquin at telcel.net.ve (mbarquin)
>Also, they indicate that their main purpose is:"HVAC incl District Heating,
>Heat Recovery, Ice Storage Systems, Solar Heating, Tap Water Heating".  Am
>I going to have problems trying to cool wort?

Probably not, there just aren't that many of us.  If you check out a cajun
cooker or a Gott cooler at Wally World, they don't mention how cool they
are for homebrewin' either, but they are...
- -----
DGofus at aol.com asks:
>... What is bettter whole hop leaves or, pellets? My
>experience has beeen mostly with pellets, but have recently read that whole
>hops give a better aroma factor due to the breakdown of the lupin gland in
>the pellets?

I've brewed over 30 batches, I've but never used whole hops.  I am almost
out of pellets though, and I think I'll be using whole or plug hops
exclusively next season.  I'm looking forward to using them in my 1/2
barrel "system", and getting some hot break filtering, via my easy masher.
Whole hops are more natural, and I like that.
- -----
From: Bruce Baker <Bruce.E.Baker at tsy.treasury.govt.nz>
>In a recent discussion of why homebrew seems to produce more of a buzz
>than commercial brew, one respondent said that homebrew contains more
>"higher alcohols" which are "more toxic, therefore more intoxicating". I
>wonder if there is cause for concern about ingesting these higher alcohols
>>over long periods of time.  Should this be a cause for concern?

Just because the HBD "consensus" (among those few who posted) was that HB
does "kick in" quicker, doesn't mean it does.  Some of the theories were
interesting, but personally, I don't feel any difference.  In fact,
sometimes, when I come empty handed and my father-in-law hands me an Old
Milwaukee (his goal is to buy the cheapest beer he can get, he LOVES my
homebrew because it costs him $0.00!  :) I'm amazed at the buzz I get off
one can, especially since it tastes like water compared to my brew.

If anyone has any info about the amount of *methal alcohol* (I was somewhat
alarmed by that) in homebrew, I'd like to see it.  Our HB processes are not
much different from the way beer has been historicallly brewed.  But who
knows what kind of crud (or use Scott's term!) the mega brewers put in
their beers?  Jack had a saying about how they use over 100 chemical
additives.  I don't know if it's that bad, but the way I see it, homebrew
couldn't be any worse for you than industrial swill.  Well, OK, assuming
you boil your starters...  :)

- --Brian Pickerill, Muncie Malt Mashers, Muncie, IN



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Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 18:08:20 -0400
From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at ccisd.k12.mi.us>
Subject: white residue in carboy

Randy Barnes asked: " Any ideas on how to remove the white bleach residue
from my glass carboys and plastic buckets? I left bleach (1/2 cup in 5 gal)
in these containers for approx one week, now have this white and rather
rough surface."

Did you use hot water? 4 oz. of bleach in 5 gal of water should not do that
to a carboy even if it sat much longer than a week, UNLESS you used hot
water.  I did that years ago and got the same rough, crystal-like residue
all over the inside of the carboy, and have never found a way to get rid of
it. I suspect it is chemical etching in the glass, although it looks as
though it's something ON the glass.

Anyway, I've used the carboy many times since then, with no problems.


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Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 17:14:11 -0500 (CDT)
From: korz at xnet.com
Subject: efficiency/force-carbonation (2)/B-vitamins/homebrew potency

I fell behind during my vacation and just, just caught up.  Please excuse
some of the rather dated topics...

Ray writes (quoting someone):
>>Here's the point.  When Zymurgy did their field test of mash/lautering
>>systems in "The Great Grain Issue," they measured efficiency BEFORE the
>>boil. And as I recall, in their findings they achieved efficiency of 30
>>to 34 ppg on a wide range of systems
>
>I am not sure that I understand what you are saying, how can you measure
>efficiency *before* the boil? You could sparge 10 pounds of grain with 30
>gal. of water and have 1.012 wort at 100% extraction rate. But then would have
>
>to boil it 25 hours to get it to batch size. I sparge until I have the volume
>I want,
>or until the gravity of my runnings gets to low, boil, and then check my O.G.,
>using that number to check my efficiency. Am I missing something?
 
That was my "field" in which the test was done and Steve Hamburg and I were
the experimenters.

The purpose of the experiment was to see what the *difference* between
systems was and so it was not important really how many gallons of runnings
were taken as long as it was somewhere in the range of what homebrewers
usually take.  As it happens, we took 7 gallons of runnings.  7 gallons
at 1.050 is *almost* the same as 5 gallons at 1.070... the only difference
would be spillage and loss to hops and trub, which we would hope to be
less than a few percent.  Frankly, the accuracy of any homebrewer's efficiency
measurements are probably limited to 5% mostly because of volume measurement
and hydrometer inaccuracies.

***
Charley writes:
>My setup is an upright with 5 kegs and the co2 tank inside the fridge
>(18 cuft). The maximum length of hose is 30" from "OUT" (on the keg) to
>the shank. I use 3/16 tubing same as you, but on the other end of the my
>shanks are faucets, 4 of them. I always get a little burst of foam from
>the C02 that appears to have come out of solution inside the hoses. I
>serve at 4-6 psi. Temp is usually 40-44F.
>
>Overcarbonation is unlikely the problem, as you point out, it gets
>better the more you serve. My force carbonation procedure:
>
>a. Keg the beer.
>b. Pressurize to 25-30psi.
>c. Disconnect and Chill keg 24 hours  at  33-34F
>d. Re-connect at 25-30psi.
>e. Shake it for 5 minutes (no more no less). I roll it on the floor back
>and forth across the edge of a rug (bump, roll, bump, roll...) always
>keeping the C02 IN connector submerged so I can hear the gas going into
>the tank. Eventually, towards the end of the 5 minutes, the gurgling
>sound gets fainter and fainter until it nearly stops completely.
>f. Disconnect and Chill at 33F for 24 more hours (still at 25-30psi).
>g. Reduce pressure to 4-6 psi, fill an 8 oz glass and throw it away
>(sediment). Serve. Never fails.
 
What your instructions would never fail to do is make foamy beer.
I don't even have to look at my CO2 solubility tables to know that
25-30 psi at 33F will give you well over 4 volumes of carbonation!
This is double what you want for most styles.  If you are getting
normal carbonation this way, either:
 
What your instructions would never fail to do is make foamy beer.
I don't even have to look at my CO2 solubility tables to know that
25-30 psi at 33F will give you well over 4 volumes of carbonation!
This is double what you want for most styles.  If you are getting
normal carbonation this way, either:
 
1. your thermostat is off (your fridge interior is much warmer than you
think it is),
 
2. you're not waiting the 24 hours you suggest and, in fact, the beer
is much warmer than 33F,
 
3. your regulator is off and you are not at 25-30 psi,
 
4. you get all foam and you like it, or
 
5. all of the above.
 
Now, I don't mean this as a slam on Charley, but really this is very
bad advice.  I force-carbonate ales at 68F at 30psi and then cool them
(disconnected from the gas!) to 55F for serving (at 8 to 12 psi).
Since CO2 is much more soluble at cooler temperatures, your instructions
are a recipe for *very* *highly* *carbonated* beer.
***

Chris writes:
>forgotten it.  so what is the relevance?  well, naturally carbonated
>drinks have different sizes of bubbles than artificially carbonated ones.
>i read this in a beginner's brewing book, so i assume everyone knows this.
>well, these different sizes of bubbles, coupled with the greatly increased
>head retention of homebrewed beers, i believe,<snip>

I'm afraid that beginner's book is wrong.  The source of the carbonation
is *absolutely* immaterial when it comes to the size of the bubbles.
This is a common misconception and it's a shame that this kind of information
has been published in books and magazines.

Also, another poster has said that B-vitamins increase alcohol metabolism.

This too is incorrect.  The tie-in between B-vitamins and alcohol is that
alcohol consumption leads to *losses* in B-vitamins.  Whether this is due
to the diuretic effect of alcohol or some other process I will not speculate.
Yeast is a great source of several of the B-vitamins and therefore drinking
beer with yeast in it helps replace some of the B-vitamins you lose due
to the alcohol.  I've read, however, that in general, the net result is
only a small increase in B-vitamins in the body (i.e. you lose most of
what you gain).
 
***
Randy and Brian speculate that it's higher alcohols that make
homebrew more "potent."  That was my thought too.  I don't know
for a fact if higher alcohols are indeed more intoxicating than
ethanol, but I do know for a fact that higher alcohols have more
of that "alcohol aroma" than ethanol.  In other words, a 6% ABV
beer with lots of higher alcohols will smell of alcohol, whereas
a beer that is 6% ABV, but all ethanol will not.

Al.

Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at xnet.com


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Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 17:32:06 -0500 (CDT)
From: korz at xnet.com
Subject: dextrin malt haze/potency/astringency/sanitizing valves/reinventing

Amidst his rant regarding adding chopped fish guts to beer, Scott writes:
>rarely seen a beer that didn't "clear" on it's own.  Granted, if you
>put 2 lbs. of dextrin malt into your single temp. mash you're going to
>have problems, but otherwise I can't see why so much energy is
>expended on this subject.  Perhaps those of you with clarification

I believe that Scott meant "using dextrin malt in an extract batch."
There's no reason that you should get cloudy beer from dextrin malt
if you are mashing it, even at a single temperature.  The haze from
dextrin malt is from starch and only if you are extract brewing would
you not convert it to soluble sugars.

***
Dave writes:
>Kevin Kanes' textbook answer and other comments relating to the higher hop
>and alcohol content in homebrew  do not answer the question first posed by
>someone here about "fresh" beer having a quicker effect than that same beer
>drunk some weeks later.

I believe that it may.  Remember that aging the beer on the yeast will
result in esterification (yeast will take acids and alcohols and make
esters out of them).  I find that fresh Bigfoot Barleywine is extremely
harsh and burns the throat, whereas after aging several months smooths
out into a nectar.  I have also found that these young, rough Barleywines
are more likely to give me a hangover (even from just one) than after
some aging.
 
***
Dave D. writes:
>> For this NA beer, should I assume that all CO2 has been driven off
>> by the alcohol-reducing process, or would there still be some CO2
> 
>My view is that heating the beer will indeed drive off any
>CO2, or at least sufficiently much that one can safely assume that

Actually, this reminded me of something from my NA beer experiements...

I found that esters were completely driven-off during the de-EtOH-ization.
A very fruity Brown Ale tasted more like a Munich Dunkel (although there
were other odd "cooked" flavours which didn't quite fit) after processing.
As for the person who reported lots of DMS, did you make sure to vent
the pot?  High DMS sounds like the condensate was allowed to fall back
into the kettle (which, incidentally, would mean that most of the
alcohol fell back in too!).

***
Dan writes:
>Honey malt is the best description for the Euopean malt know as bruhmalt.
>Its intense malty sweetness makes it perfect for any specialty beer. It's
>color is 20 - 30 lov. and is without any astringent roast flavors.
<snip>
and:
>This information comes from Gambrinus.
 
This is inexcusable.  Associating astringency with roasted malts is
a crime.  Roasted malts don't lend *astringency*!  To taste astringency
you should chew on a grape skin or red apple peel.  Please don't confuse
astringency with bitterness or sharpness!  Gambrinus Malting Company
should get a rap on the knuckles with a ruler.

***
Jeff writes:
> Now I *assume* that the inlet side of the ball valve has been
>sanitized by it's contact with the boiling wort, but I have not been
>doing anything to sanitize the outlet side of the valve before
>connecting the drain hose.  What do other people who use this type of
>kettle setup do to sanitize the outlet?

Before I begin to chill, I put a 6" (30 cm) length of silicone hose
on the end of the valve outlet and run some boiling wort through it
(gently) into a Pyrex container.  This should sanitize the interior
of the valve.  I leave the short hose on till I'm done chilling and
then pull it off just before attaching the sanitized 4-foot (1.2 m)
silicone hose (just in case some bugs decided to visit).
 
***
Randy writes:
>The longer I work as an engineer, the more I realize that the key to being
>a good one is knowing when not to reinvent the wheel.
>
>Kim, have you seen the Fermentap (TM)?  It's made out here in central
>California and sounds a lot like what you describe. <snip>
 
I couldn't let this pass... Fermentap *reinvented* Kinney Baughman's
BrewCap(tm).  Kinney's invention, albeit much more simply designed,
predates the Fermentap by at least five years.

Al.

Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at xnet.com


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Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 17:35:30 -0500 (CDT)
From: korz at xnet.com
Subject: Sorry...

In private email, Tim asks what are the problems with over-acidifying
sparge water.  My reply to him bounced, so here it is:

Tim--
The only real problems with acidifying too much would be:

1. poor break (both hot and cold),

2. sourness.

Al.



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Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 22:21:01 -0500 (CDT)
From: Hal Davis <davis at planolaw.com>
Subject: Beer mix gas screwup

I'm in minor trouble, and I need help. I have a cornelius kegging system,
and after hearing of the joys of beer mix gas (in this case 75% N, 25% CO2),
I refilled my cylinder with the stuff. I needed gas anyway, because I had a
leaky hose and an empty canister. I spent the evening putting hose clamps on
all my fittings, then hooked everything back up and turned on the gas. 

It appears my regulator doesn't know from nitrogen. The screw had been set
at about 7# of CO2 pressure, but the beer mix kept flowing, and flowing, and
was still going strong at 15#. I started backing off the pressure regulation
screw, and didn't have any effect until I heard gas flowing from the side of
the regulator. I came to the conclusion that the screw was too far out, so
screwed it back in until I didn't hear gas any more, I cut off the gas at
the bottle, and vented a bit from one of the kegs. 

So, what's the problem, and more important, what's the solution (cheap, I
hope)? My interim workaround is to wait until there's not enough pressure to
push beer out, then give the kegs another quick blast, and repeat. Do I
(gulp) need a new regulator?

Hal Davis

Proprietor, the Safety Brewery, Plano, Texas
Member North Texas Home Brewers Association

Ignorance can be cured. 


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