HOMEBREW Digest #2423 Wed 21 May 1997

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  On Combining Yeasts for Fermentation (John Sullivan)
  Re: Cold Box (was Upright Freezer) (guym)
  Homebrew Digest #2422 (May 20, 1997) ("Bret A. Schuhmacher")
  Spirit of Free Beer (Mark Stevens)
  ALK ("Rich Byrnes")
  HBD and Advertising ("Roberts, Ned")
  Yeast Infections (David Johnson)
  Carb. levels in kegs ("Dave Draper")
  Well I'll be SPAM'ed (John_E_Schnupp)
  Indy-only posting (sorry!) (DAVE BRADLEY IC742 6-7932)
  Combining Yeasts (Scott Dornseif)
  Keg fermenters (Tom Pope)
  Re: Fermenting in Corny Kegs (Pat Lohmann)
  Carbonator Attachements ("C&S Peterson")
  Classic American Bock?? (Lou Heavner)
  Grolsch Hops? ("Tomusiak, Mark")
  Yeast Reuse and Recipe for Irish Ale ("Tim M. Dugan")
  Announcing: Low-level moderation on the HBD (Some guy)
  Fermenting in Corney Kegs / Insulating Mash Kegs (Ronald Babcock)
  corny fermenting ("Bryan L. Gros")
  oatmeal stout/rogue yeast (Eric  Tepe)
  fight SPAM/IBU calcs/headspace (smurman)
  Rager vs. Tinseth (Jeremy Bergsman)
  Efficiency of ceramic stove tops (Eric Palmer)
  Homebrew Digest #2422 (May 20, 1 (eric fouch)
  mixed yeasts, not infections though. ("Raymond Estrella")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 06:05:49 -0700 From: John Sullivan <sullvan at anet-stl.com> Subject: On Combining Yeasts for Fermentation Dana wrote asking if many of us, combine yeasts for certain effects. I would think that most of us who do not culture our own yeast avoid doing this due to the cost associated with it. However, if you culture your own and have a substantial bank of yeast, it is a worthwhile pursuit. The best example I have of combining yeasts to good effect is combining weizen yeasts. Wyeast's Weihenstephen Weizen yeast (3068) is banana-on-a-stick while Yeast Labs Bavarian Weizen (W51) is a very strong clove phenolic producer. I have found that by pitching these in roughly a 2 to 1 ratio of W51 to 3068 that you get a very nice clovey weizen with a hint of banana. While the W51 works well by itself, I have found the 3068 to often be too banana or bubblegum like. Banana and bubblegum are desireable phenolics in a weizen but I do not think they should overwhelm you. This is the only situation where I actually go out and buy two different yeasts to pitch. In slow or stuck fermentation situations, I have pitched a different yeast late. I can recall a situation where a tripel fermented with Wyeast 3944 crapped out on me at about 2/3 of the way to completing its job and I repitched with Wyeast 1214. In that case, it was not a bad effect but perhaps not as desireable as to have had the 3944 do the complete job. In both cases that I have experienced, all the yeasts have very pronounced flavor or aroma characteristics. Where this is the case, combining yeasts is probably worthwhile, if you have an idea of what you want and that this combination will get you there. John Sullivan St. Louis, MO Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 May 97 08:14:36 MDT From: guym at Exabyte.COM Subject: Re: Cold Box (was Upright Freezer) Due to significant interest in the "cold box" concept, I dug up the Zymurgy that Byron Burch's article appeared in. It is in the 1992 Special Issue and the article is entitled "Stalking the Wild Cold Box" on page 22. In his article, Byron describes putting the door from the refrigerator (or freezer) on the end of the cold box which makes for a very deep storage area. This can make it somewhat difficult to add or remove bottles, carboys, kegs, etc. from the back of the box. Byron mentions that, if he were to make any changes, it would be to put the door on the side. This is the way my implementation is set up. It necessitates turning the freezer sideways (with the opening facing right in my case) and screwing the cold box to the front. The freezer door is placed on the side of the cold box but it faces outward just like it used to on the freezer when it was in its original orientation. This allows for a large, open storage area for kegs and carboys in the cold box (mine doesn't have the shelf like Byron's) with the inner freezer shelves off to the left inside for storing bottles, yeast, etc. I will add tap handles to the box soon (probably 4) and they will hang over my utility sink in the garage negating the need for a drip tray. I hope this reference will answer all the questions I received via email. If not, let me know. -- Guy McConnell /// Exabyte Corp. /// Huntersville, NC /// guym at exabyte.com "I've got a native tongue, from way down South. It sit in the cheek of my Gulf Coastal mouth..." Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 09:13:59 -0400 (EDT) From: "Bret A. Schuhmacher" <bas at healthcare.com> Subject: Homebrew Digest #2422 (May 20, 1997) Thanks for all the ideas on fermenting in corny kegs in regard to blow off tubes, etc. In response to some of your questions: 1) I thought about the CO2 layer on top of unfermented wort keeping the wort from getting much needed oxygen. Therefore I aerated *the hell* out of it before I put the CO2 in the keg. The CO2 was probably overkill, but I didn't want any further oxygenation after fermentation began. 2) I really don't like using blowoff tubes and buckets of water. Besides, a 5 gallon batch in a 10 gallon keg shouldn't need a blowoff tube. I was really looking for a solution that would leave a keg structurally intact, yet let off pressure low enough that it didn't harm the yeast. However, no one seems to have any thoughts on the pressure/yeast question, so I'll consider it a minor issue. 3) I took a poppet spring and substituted it for the relief valve spring, but they were different diameters and the relief valve body had a shoulder and shank keeping the valve from having full travel. I had to put everything back the way it was :-(. Can anyone confirm or deny that the relief valve springs are 135psi and the QD springs are 10-20psi springs? 4) I may take a quick disconnect and attach a piece of hose with a stopper and air-lock. I'll need some way to get the hose turned vertically (run it through a 30 degree elbow?) so the water doesn't leak out of the airlock. Thanks for all your ideas! Rgds, Bret - -- Bret A. Schuhmacher - Software Engineer bas at healthcare.com These opinions are no one's Healthcare Communications, Inc. fault by my own. I stopped to think and forgot how to start again. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 09:19:48 -0400 From: stevens at stsci.edu (Mark Stevens) Subject: Spirit of Free Beer Time to send in those entries for the Spirit of Free Beer homebrew competition !!! That's right, folks. Entries are being accepted NOW through May 30. All styles of beer, as well as mead and cider are eligible. This year's competition offers more prizes than ever before. As in past years, ribbon winners in all categories get a share of the vast treasure chest of beer & brewing goodies, which includes sacks of malt, pounds of hops, gift certificates from homebrew suppliers, T-shirts, sweatshirts, hats, bar mirrors, beer, breweriana from a wide range of breweries, and many, many other cool things. This year, there will be five "brewer-for-a-day" type prizes, three of which will be to scale up and brew your own winning recipe. These prizes will go to the three best-of-show winners plus two additional winners: One for the best overall ale, and one for the best amber or dark lager. The breweries sponsoring these prizes are: Virginia Beverage Company, Brimstone Brewing Company, Potomac River Brewing Company, Blue N Gold brewpub, and Oxford Brewing Company. We expect especially high judging quality for this event as we already have about 35 BJCP judges signed up to judge. If you are a BJCP judge and would like to come judge with us, please send email to Greg Griffin (gmgriff0 at wcc.com). Entry forms and details are available on BURP's web page (http://www.burp.org). Questions??? Send me e-mail. Good luck! - ---Mark Stevens competition organizer stevens at stsci.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 09:19:38 EDT From: "Rich Byrnes" <rbyrnes2.ford at e-mail.com> Subject: ALK Man, was that funny (Apologies to Mr Korzonas...) Did anyone notice a post in 2422 from an Alex Kohrt (Brewers Beer Gear) Does everyone realize what this means???? There are 2 Al K's on the digest, oh perish the thought! And if we could ever get them in the same room, side by side, shoulder to shoulder we would have (yup, you guessed it) the Al K line (groan!) Regards,_Rich Byrnes, Founder/President Fermental Order of Renaissance Draughtsmen \\\|/// phone #(313)323-2613, fax #390-4520_______o000_(.) (.)_000o http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/ford (_) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 09:25:29 -0400 From: "Roberts, Ned" <robertsn at fdhc.state.fl.us> Subject: HBD and Advertising The "article" in Homebrew Digest #2422, from owl at owlsnest.com (re: IS YOUR WEB SITE A SECRET?) has nothing, nothing, nothing at all to do with homebrew! WHY WAS IT INCLUDED IN THE HOMEBREW DIGEST? Is someone getting paid an advertising fee? Lets keep the HBD to brewing subjects! Ned Roberts nedr at freenet.tlh.fl.us Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 07:36:38 -0700 From: David Johnson <dmjalj at inwave.com> Subject: Yeast Infections Fellow Brewers, Until the recent discussion about the offensivenes of this subject, I had been intending to post this information. I do not wish to offend merely to inform. The subject matter which follows may not be appropriate for all audiences those not interested may want to page down. The microflora of a woman's vagina is diverse. It is usually dominated by aerobic bacteria. Yeast is a common minor component and only becomes a problem when it becomes the major organism. It is unfortunant, perhaps, that we call this a yeast infection. It might be better termed a yeast overgrowth syndrome. The problem is not that the yeast is there, it is that it has overgrown the system and upset the local ecology. The key is: what upset the balance? There are a number of common causes for this that fall outside our reason for this discussion (I believe it is whether homebrew causes "yeast infections") . Even if brewing yeast is sometimes the overgrowing organism, the main concern is what caused it to overgrow? Most women who have frequent yeast infections have some other contributing factor (hormonal, antibiotic,or other) that favors the growth of yeast whatever the type. David Johnson Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 08:46:56 -6 From: "Dave Draper" <ddraper at utdallas.edu> Subject: Carb. levels in kegs Dear Friends, Several recent posts have touched, directly or indirectly, on the notion that a beer primed at a given level and packaged in kegs, either the 5L minikegs or larger soda kegs, will end up with higher carbonation than will the identical beer primed at the same level but packaged in bottles. That is, it seems that for some reason, the amount of CO2 in the system will give more CO2 *in the beer* if that beer is in a keg than if it is in the bottle, and in some cases the 5L kegs have even been reported to bulge or otherwise deform when primed at the "expected" rate. Similar observations have been made for some years in these pages; and after the priming article I co-wrote with Mark Hibberd appeared in BT last year, we had a letter asking that very question. Unfortunately, the answer I submitted was consumed in the BT disk crash, but the bottom line of my reply was: I don't know! Why *should* a keg end up overprimed in this way? Having never used kegs yet, I have no basis for a direct comparison, but I do not doubt the reports of brewers from whom this info comes. But it really makes me scratch my head and wonder, because I cannot understand why it should happen. The obvious place to start looking for an answer is in the relationship between headspace in a container of beer and the CO2 dissolved in the beer beneath the headspace. We have seen reports, for example from Algis (not Albert!) K., on impressions of the amount of "hiss" when a bottle cap is pried off and the ensuing carbonation, and such info is a start, but does not get us all the way there. What I would like to know is what proportion of a keg's volume is empty space when a beer is packaged into it, and how does that proportion compare to that between the headspace in a bottle and the beer under it? In other words, is the ratio of the volume of headspace to total volume radically different in kegs than in bottles? I do not know but I am inclined to doubt it. The real test is to have the hard data. So, to the point at last: I would like to hear from interested keg owners who might like to provide me with this kind of data. The goal is to understand fully how the ratio of headspace to total volume differs in kegs, in the hopes that the relationships used in the aforementioned priming treatment (which I firmly believe are "correct" as far as they go) can be modified or otherwise made to incorporate this apparent phenomenon. For this purpose, I would ask for PRIVATE email giving the usual ranges of fill levels in kegs-- does the headspace make up 5% of the total volume? 10%? 1%? I will collate the data and, in the short term, tabulate the results in some (hopefully) useful way; in the longer term I hope to be able to figure this sucker out and present a modified version of the priming procedure to take this situation into account. Thanks for your cooperation. Cheers, Dave in Dallas - --- ***************************************************************************** Dave Draper, Dept Geosciences, U. Texas at Dallas, Richardson TX 75083 ddraper at utdallas.edu Home page: http://hbd.org/~ddraper Beer page: http://hbd.org/~ddraper/beer.html Pitching your yeast at 70F instead of 90F *does* (in my experience) improve the taste of your beer. ---John de Carlo Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 06:35:22 -0700 From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com Subject: Well I'll be SPAM'ed Remember the thread a while back about spaming??? Well I'll be spamed (sic) because it looks like the HBD just took one in the chin!!! Spam is as spam does. John Schnupp, N3CNL Colchester, VT john_e_schnupp at amat.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 13:55:19 +0000 (GMT) From: DAVE BRADLEY IC742 6-7932 <BRADLEY_DAVID_A at LILLY.COM> Subject: Indy-only posting (sorry!) For those who brew with Indy municipal water, I received a mailing from the IWC detailing the annual average composition of the water from the 4-5 water sources used in Indy. If you are interested in the brewing-related info from this water analysis, send me an Email. I can enter the data and send it to you (wish I had a web page to just post it!). If you do write, tell me where you live so I can figure out which water supply you are on (4 or 5 in Indy). Dave in Indy Home of the 3-B Brewery, v. Ltd. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 09:08:51 -0500 From: Scott Dornseif <roundboy at wwa.com> Subject: Combining Yeasts Dana Writes" >Date: Mon, 19 May 97 11:31:11 EST >From: dbrigham at nsf.gov >Subject: combining yeasts for fermentation > What is the concensus on combining strains of yeast for > fermentation - as in combining different strains of ale yeast in > order to get specific characteristics associated with the yeast > being combined? <<snip>> > but does anyone have any experience, warnings, > anecdotes, triumphs to share? > Thanx!!! > Dana Brigham You must be careful if you combine the British Ale (WYEAST 1098) and the Irish Ale (WYEAST 1084), You can end up with a CARboy bomb! Scott Dornseif Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 07:43:13 -0700 From: popeman at webtv.net (Tom Pope) Subject: Keg fermenters I use 5 and 10 gallon soda kegs for fermenters. I remove the product fitting and dip tube, then place a #7 drilled stopper over the the threads. Then I fit a standard airlock or can also use a blow-off tube if I prefer. At the end of primary fermentation, I sanitize the product diptube and fitting and install them on the keg. Then I use c02 to push the beer into another keg. This secondary fermenter often turns out to be the serving tank, but if needed or warranted I will later rack to a third keg as a bright tank. It seems to work well for my purposes. Cheers......Tom Pope Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 May 97 10:48:24 EDT From: Pat Lohmann <pat at ale.whoi.edu> Subject: Re: Fermenting in Corny Kegs content-type:text/plain;charset=us-ascii mime-version:1.0 John_E_Schnupp commented: .In the HBD #2421 Bret had the following lament about corny keg fermenting: >I decided to try fermenting in a corny keg - it's indestructible, has >nice handles on it, you can get hydrometer readings and transfer using >CO2, etc. The only down-side is you can't count "glugs" from the >fermentation lock so you know something's happening. .I'd like to suggest a humble solution: Sacrifice a lid and drill a hole in .the center large enough to accommodate a drilled stopper. A #2 = 3/4" and .a #5 1/2 = 1". I have a 1/2" titanium coated drill bit that I use to drill .holes in my lids for valve stems. A chassis punch could also be used. I've been fermenting in 10 gallon cornys for years (they're about $45 from St. Patricks in Austin) and use the CO2 IN as the blowoff, without modification. Simply attach an IN connector with a short piece of house and stick the other end of the hose in a jar of bleach water. It glugs just like the real thing. After a couple of days of blowing off remove the disconnect and let the keg pressurize. After a week or so transfer under pressure to 5 gallon cornys...you'll need a piece of hose with liquid OUT connectors at each end. This system is so clean I'm able to "repitch" the same yeast for months (i.e., I don't clean the keg out between batches). Pat Lohmann Woods Hole MA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 May 97 14:55:41 UT From: "C&S Peterson" <CNS_PETERSON at msn.com> Subject: Carbonator Attachements HBDers - I'm a little frustrated with my "Carbonator" cap (made by Liquid Bread, it allows you to inject CO2 into a PET bottle or attach a mini-tap to your regulator). I bought two of these things and both have a nasty habit of the poppet valve breaking loose from the inside of the carbonator. That is, there is a small plastic ring that supports the poppet valve against the force of the CO2 ball-lock attachment from the regulator. This ring appears to simply "snap" in place, but breaks free when I connect it to the CO2 source (this is a real PIA -- poppet valve falls into filled PET bottle, beer gets flat, etc....) I'm considering using some marine goop or super-glue on the thing. But is anyone else out there having similar troubles? If not I may simply return the product and request a replacement. On the subject of HB products, how do folks who have Phil's Phase bottom like the product? Any clogging/floating concerns? I am considering getting both the sparge arm and bottom and wanted to hear some objective opinions from those who have used these things. Private email is fine. TIA, Chas Peterson Laytonsville, Md Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 10:17:25 -0500 From: lheavner at tcmail.frco.com (Lou Heavner) Subject: Classic American Bock?? Greetings, I have been intrigued with the classic American Pilsener promoted by Jeff Renner. Down here in Texas, we have a popular little beer called Shiner Bock. It is made with a fair portion of corn, or so I am told. I have many friends who like it better than the standard commercial beers. Is this the unique effort of that little brewery in Shiner, or is it a style waiting to be discovered like CAP? It is pretty far down on my list, but someday I will create a bock recipe with 20% or so corn and domestic ingredients as much as possible. Any comments or suggestions from the audience?? Regards, Lou Heavner <lheavner at frmail.frco.com> Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 08:46:21 -0700 From: "Tomusiak, Mark" <tomusiak at amgen.com> Subject: Grolsch Hops? Greetings all...I was curious as to whether anyone has an idea of what hops are used in the production of Grolsch beers. Both their pilsner and their amber, when in good condition, have a very pleasing peppery bitterness - Northern Brewer? Spalt? Any info would be appreciated - Mark T, Boulder, Colorado. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 10:59:21 -0500 From: "Tim M. Dugan" <tdugan at netins.net> Subject: Yeast Reuse and Recipe for Irish Ale I have two questions for the great body of knowledge. First question. I am fortunate enough to be able to brew on two = consecutive weekends. I would like to reuse my yeast from last weekend, = this weekend. Can I simply rack off my first batch to the secondary, = and put the second batch right onto the trub and yeast from the first = batch? Or should I go through the process and wash the yeast with = sterile water as described in the Yeast FAQ? Specifics: The yeast is Yeast Lab A03 London Ale. Right now it is = finishing up fermenting a porter, and I am planning on making a oatmeal = stout this weekend. The starting gravity of the porter was 1.058, and = the stout will be in the 1.045-1.050 range. Concerns: Since Ale yeast is top fermenting, will the yeast at the = bottom of the primary be the "good yeast" or is the "good yeast" still = suspended and only the weaker yeast is on the bottom? Will having the = new batch sitting on top of the old batch's trub cause any trouble? = I'll rack it off in five or six days. Now my second question, Irish Ale is not considered a style of beer by = either the AHA or BJCP, yet it has a unique taste. I have been looking = for information about the specifics of what goes into an Irish Ale, = without much success. I am hoping that you have come across some = information to allow me to formulate a recipe, or if nothing else point = me in the right direction and "I'll do my homework". I realize that an Irish Ale it is a lot like an English Ale, but with an = additional grain (crystal?) to add the red color. It has a malty taste, = and is lightly hoped. What sets it apart is a taste I can not figure = out. I want to say buttery, but that is not quite right. Like I said, = any help you could provide would be beneficial. I'll thank you all in advance for any help. Tim M .Dugan tdugan at netins.net Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 12:16:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Some guy <pbabcock at mail.oeonline.com> Subject: Announcing: Low-level moderation on the HBD Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... "Roberts, Ned" <robertsn at fdhc.state.fl.us> says of HBD and Advertising > The "article" in Homebrew Digest #2422, from owl at owlsnest.com (re: IS > YOUR WEB SITE A SECRET?) has nothing, nothing, nothing at all to do with > homebrew! WHY WAS IT INCLUDED IN THE HOMEBREW DIGEST? Is someone > getting paid an advertising fee? > Lets keep the HBD to brewing subjects! And to this end, the HBD Steering Committe has wrestled with the issue of moderation on the HBD. A few months ago, whilst perusing the incoming articles for one I had lost, I came across a fairly offensive piece of spam. I contacted my partner, Karl, and we agreed to ice it. Following our actions, we decided that some form of article review may be prudent to prevent spam from reaching the digest. And it was good. But what if either Karl or I were to go psycho and start serial-killing articles for no good reason? What if one of us killed one that was borderline and later, feeling remorseful, wanted to bring it back? What if... The issue was brought to the remainder of the steering committee (who, I might add admonished Karl and I for nuking the first article without prior consultation. Mea culpa, mea culpa! Won't happen again!) A policy-storming session commenced, while Karl and I brainstormed on methods to prevent such heinous acts. And it was good. In short, what Karl has created is a system through which the janitors automatically receive a forward copy of each article submitted to the digest. Depending on what we do to the copy, the article will either be posted, disappear in a puff of cyber-smoke (reserved for spam), be forwarded back to the poster without being published (posting guideline violations - for the most part, automatic and based on format anyway), or be re-routed to the homebrew-request address (for those misguided subscribe and unsubscribe requests). The steering committee has created policy to which we will abide in exercising our newfound powers, and each steering committee member will receive a "sanity check" copy of any nuked postings to assure checks and balances are in place to avoid abuse of said power. And it was good. The rollout of this action was made immediate by our miss of the owl at owlsnest spam in the 'gest yesterday. The article made it in after the "point of no return" - that time in which neither Karl or I are connected to the hbd.org site. With this new system, that possibility still exists - "stuff" may slip in between our last time online and the publication of the digest, but the chances of our catching spam are greater since we do not have to be connected to hbd.org in order to review the articles! Should the spammers get smart enough to target the wee hours, the steering committe may consider full moderation in which, rather than decide whether or not to kill an article, the janitors will be deciding whether or not an article will publish. It is my sincerest hope that it does not come to this. The policy statement regarding this will be released to the digest and posted to the hbd.org web site. Thank you for your understanding in this matter. (PS: No-one is making any money off of running the Digest.) See ya! Pat Babcock pbabcock at oeonline.com janitor@hbd.org Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 10:44:27 -0600 From: Ronald Babcock <rbabcock at rmii.com> Subject: Fermenting in Corney Kegs / Insulating Mash Kegs Bret A. Schuhmacher asked about fermenting in SS corney kegs. I do all my secondary fermentation in kegs for my lagers. This permits me to keep four kegs in my temperature controlled frig. I use one if the gas connectors (in) with a barb attached to it. I use a short piece of tubing to connect it to a fermentation lock which I wire to the side of the keg at the top. This allowed me to keep an eye on the fermentation progress. This process could be adapted to your setup. This solves two problems. First I don't have the height in my frig to accommodate a taller setup and I don't have to modify my lid. I also transfer the beer off the yeast by going from the out side to the out side of the kegs with a short piece of tubing. It is transferred under low pressure with CO2 and the serving keg is purged with CO2 first which prevents any oxygen from contact with the beer. I relieve the pressure a little at a time in the serving keg to equalize the pressure and control the flow. I couple of weeks ago I asked about insulating my keg to help maintain the mash temperature and/or using a heat exchanger built into the HLT to gently heat the wort and to maintain the temperature. I received a lot of excellent ideas regarding insulation and Rick Calley is already using my idea of the heat exchanger. I am in the process of converting my system to use a heat exchanger in the HLT and insulating the converted keg. I am waiting on SS couplings to be welded in the kegs. For more information look at my web site at http://shell.rmi.net/~rbabcock/ it is still under construction but should provide some good information on both of these ideas as well as links to Rick's site and others. Ronald Babcock Denver, CO rbabcock at rmii.com Return to table of contents
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu From: "Bryan L. Gros" <grosbl at ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu> Subject: corny fermenting John_E_Schnupp at amat.com wrote: >Subject: keg airlock > >In the HBD #2421 Bret had the following lament about corny keg fermenting: > >>I decided to try fermenting in a corny keg - it's indestructible, has >>nice handles on it, you can get hydrometer readings and transfer using >>CO2, etc. The only down-side is you can't count "glugs" from the >>fermentation lock so you know something's happening. > >I'd like to suggest a humble solution: Sacrifice a lid and drill a hole in >the center large enough to accommodate a drilled stopper. Even better possibility: pull the dip tube out of the serving side (probably doesn't matter which side) and put an airlock on there. Of corse the airlock is too big to fit in the hole itself, so get a piece of tubing that fits over the hole and whose inside diameter is small enough to fit a second piece of tubing whose inside diameter is small enough to fit the airlock. Just takes an inch or two of each tubing. - Bryan grosbl at ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu Nashville, TN Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 14:15:30 -0400 From: Eric Tepe <tepee0 at CHMCC.ORG> Subject: oatmeal stout/rogue yeast Hey All! This is my first post so I will try to keep it short: 1. I want to make an Oatmeal Stout but when do I add the oats and why? I have seen recipes with quick oats and steel cut oats which work the best? 2. Is the yeast in the sediment of a bottle of Rogue Shakespeare Stout the actual brewing yeast or just a conditioning yeast. Thanks to all that respond, private e-mail ok. Eric R. Tepe tepee0 at chmcc.org Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 12:09:03 -0700 From: smurman at best.com Subject: fight SPAM/IBU calcs/headspace We've discussed SPAM and it's problems on this list before. There is a new organization which is proposing legislation to fight SPAM. Currently, email has an "opt out" clause, meaning you can get off the SPAM list at your request. Most would like this changed to an "opt in" clause, meaning you would have to request to be SPAMed. See the web site http://www.cauce.org for more information. // My little perl script for calculating IBU's presents the Rager and Tinseth formulas side-by-side. When all is said and done, the two methods give numbers that are pretty comparable. http://www.best.com/~smurman/zymurgy/scripts.html. // I had my first batch of bottle bombs a couple of weeks ago. There were many contributing factors, but I think the most critical were my own sloppy and lazy procedures, and the fill level of the bottles. I went back to the archives and looked at what's been discussed about headspace in the past. Both Steve Alexander and AlK did experiments that showed that an underfilled bottle would develop more carbonation, while an overfilled bottle would develop less carbonation (both compared to a "standard" fill). I agree with both of these statements. It was theorized that the yeast would die off under pressure, and that was the cause of the over-filled bottles being less carbonated. I'm not sure I agree with this theory. When opening an under-filled bottle you will get a "gusher", meaning that the bottle was under high pressure, and when you remove the top you basically get a shockwave, which is what causes the gusher (same thing as when you pop a Champagne cork). This implies that under-filled bottles are actually under more pressure than over-filled ones. When we cap a bottle we create a closed system. From my limited memory of gaseous reactions this means that the amount fo CO2 in the headspace and the amount of CO2 in solution in the beer must be in equilibrium. The bottles with the greater headspace has room for CO2, and hence will develop a greater carbonation. The questions I have are how can we explain the more priming sugar => more CO2 given these facts? What does happen to the excess CO2 in a standard-filled or over-filled bottles? FWIW, the bottles I did have break were all 22oz. bottles. I think from now on, when I'm working with high priming rates, I'll stick to the 12oz. and 500ml bottles. SM Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 12:46:45 -0700 From: Jeremy Bergsman <jeremybb at leland.Stanford.EDU> Subject: Rager vs. Tinseth > From: Jason Henning <huskers at cco.net> > u% = .005*t^2 + .18*t +4.25 where t is the minutes in the boil. > > Works good between 0 and 45 minutes to *estimate Rager's table*. > > All seemed ok but it's the wrong curve! This isn't how I understand u%. > I think u% is a curve thats has declining growth rate. For instance, > hops added for an hour, we extract 2/3 of the bitterness in the first 20 > minute. We're looking for a curve that is steep for the first 15 minutes > or so. then starting to flatten out and finally leveling out at about > 30% around the 45 to 60 minute mark. Ragers table is just opposite of > this between 0 and 45 minutes. His curve is concave up, needs to be > concave down (convex up?). I am very impressed that the Tinseth curves are empirically derived, in seeming contrast to all the other ones out there. But let me offer my experience with them. I started using Rager's numbers when they came out. I found that I was underbittering so I scaled up his entire curve somewhat. This system worked for me for 5 years. Recently I have started to try the Tinseth numbers with appropriate scaling (I looked back at old recipes that worked and used his curves to estimate IBUs and compared to how the beers tasted). They worked fine for a few beers until I made a Columbus-based IPA. Since this beer had a lot of Columbus added at 13 and 20', it is a stringent test of the shape of the first part of the curve. If the curve stays low, then increases starting around 20', then levels off (sigmoidal or "s" shaped) as Rager's numbers show, the late additions are predicted to have a small contribution and you would use more early hops. If the curve starts rising quite quickly at the start, leveling off later (as Jason wants and Tinseth shows), the late additions are predicted to have a big effect and little early hops are used. I used Tinseth's numbers and came up with a very underbittered IPA. Hence I conclude that his curve rises too fast at the start and that something more like Rager's shape is good. As far as I can tell, the shape of Tinseth's curve is assumed, not measured, which suggests to me that he has done his measurements with early additions. Mine is only one data point from one person. Can anyone else who uses his numbers look back through his/her notes for a beer with a lot of high alpha hops added late and see what effect was had? - -- Jeremy Bergsman jeremybb at leland.stanford.edu http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~jeremybb Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 13:15:48 -0700 (PDT) From: palmer at San-Jose.ate.slb.com (Eric Palmer) Subject: Efficiency of ceramic stove tops I have been doing 2 gal. boils for 5 gal batches due to my small (2.5 gal) pot and perceived limitations of my electric range. I would like to move to 10 gal batches by doing a 4-5 gal boil and topping off with sufficient water to get me to 10 gals. I would then ferment in 2 separate buckets/carboys and use different yeast in each. My electric range is one of those smooth ceramic top electric jobs with somewhat less efficiency than a conventional electric and certainly less than gas. Does anyone have any experience with the maximum volume I can expect to bring to a boil in a reasonable time on this range using the largest burner. I currently can get 2 gals. boiling in about 30 min (with 7# of extract) starting with hot tap water. Will I need a heavy duty gas burner to boil 5 gals. effectively? Thanks for any feedback... Eric Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 07:07:05 -0500 (EST) From: eric fouch <S=fouch%G=eric%DDA=ID=STC021.efouch%Steelcase-Inc at mcimail.com> Subject: Homebrew Digest #2422 (May 20, 1 HBD- OK, I think it's time for AlK (NOT Alex Kohrt or Al Kaline, but Al Korzonas) to re-educate us on how to punish spammers: ===Web Promotions=====Press Releases=====Link Exchanges========= Owl's Eye Productions, Inc. 260 E. Main Street Brewster, NY 10509 Ph: 914-278-4933 Fx: 914-278-4507 E-mail: owlseye at owlsnest.com Deserves our wrath. Also, regarding Wyeast 1388, Belgian Strong Ale, I got two different stories- A yeast site (not that kind) described it as nuetral, pretty much like 1056, but somebody from the HBD (sorry, forgot whom) said it was spicy and fruity. The latter makes more sense to me, why produce a nuetral BSA yeast? I got no comments about my attempt at creating a Belgian Invert Candi Sugar- boiling sucrose with honey and phosphoric acid to 150 C. Dave? Al? Alex? Scott? Any observations? Eric Fouch The Politically Correct Bent Dick YactoBrewery in Kentwood, MI - --Boundary (ID i.g+01I_J3BOEU,GJG9-1VV9.9DGI1IG)-- Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 May 97 00:01:35 UT From: "Raymond Estrella" <ray-estrella at msn.com> Subject: mixed yeasts, not infections though. Hello to all, Dana Brigham asks, >What is the concensus on combining strains of yeast for >fermentation - as in combining different strains of ale yeast in >order to get specific characteristics associated with the yeast >being combined? I know that Wyeast does sell some packages which >are combinations of yeast (like their 'mild' German wheat (sorry, >don't recall the number) yeast which uses a mild ale strain and a >traditional wiezen strain) - so it must work in some cases. I >don't think I'm crazed enough (YET!) to try combining ale and >lager yeasts - but does anyone have any experience, warnings, >anecdotes, triumphs to share? It is done quite often in Europe, including one brewery that claims to use 12 strains in their brew. I made a cream ale using Yeast Lab's Canadian Ale in the primary for 5 days and then transferring to a secondary with a starter of Wyeast Danish Lager for 7 days, then lagering for 3 weeks. It turned out pretty good. 4 months ago I made a Belgian Trippel with Wyeast Belgian Abbey 2 in the primary, a combination of two high gravity ale yeasts in the secondary, and a couple of ounces of fresh BA2 in the bottling bucket. Even though it is still quite young, and was mistakenly put in the Belgian Strong category instead of Belgian Triple, it took a silver medal 3 weeks ago. I think you should go ahead and experiment with it. You will not hurt anything, and may even discover the next great blend. Let us know how it turns out. (Let's see, a Weizen yeast with my Porter......oh nooooo) Ray Estrella Cottage Grove MN ray-estrella at msn.com *******Never relax, constantly worry, have a better homebrew.******* Return to table of contents