HOMEBREW Digest #2427 Tue 27 May 1997

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Kegging question (Chris North)
  Replies to Yeast Reuse ("Tim M. Dugan")
  ssshhh!! Hop euphoria (Charlie Scandrett)
  HBD Policies (Louis Bonham)
  dry yeast question (Tim Plummer)
  Re: dry hemping ("Keith Royster")
  Cherries in my Stout (William H Plotner)
  sanitizing keg outflow ("Bryan L. Gros")
  Partial Mash & Hot Side Aeration (Brad Manbeck)
  Burners (Randy Ricchi)
  If you're bored.... ("Kelly C. Heflin")
  American Weizen Kit (John Hessling)
  FERMENTATION.... ("Gerardo Godoy")
  Great Divide / Buddies ("Pat Babcock")
  Weizen (David Johnson)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 18:18:05 -0500 (CDT) From: Chris North <chrisn at infohwy.com> Subject: Kegging question About a year ago, when I started considering beginning kegging, a friend of a friend told me that he had a friend who worked for the Coca-Cola company. This friend of a friend told me that he could get me some "Coke Kegs", no problem. Well, I've been let down by friends enough to know you can't depend on 'a friend of a friend of a friend', so I got my own kegging set-up and began kegging. This week, the 'friend of a friend of a friend' deal came through! Two pin lock corny's and a soda-pop tap. Now I know what to do with the corny's (clean them, replace the O-rings, get some pin lock fittings and go!), but can I use the soda pop tap? It is not one of the "mixing" taps that mixes the syrup with the product, it is one of the older (I think) type used to dispense pre-mixed product. Has anyone used this type to dispense beer? From looking at it, I would think it would work, but I though I'd ask. Thanks, chris north Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 01:40:27 -0500 From: "Tim M. Dugan" <tdugan at netins.net> Subject: Replies to Yeast Reuse In HBD #2423 I wrote: > I have two questions for the great body of knowledge. > > First question. I am fortunate enough to be able to brew on two > consecutive weekends. I would like to reuse my yeast from last = weekend, > this weekend. Can I simply rack off my first batch to the secondary, > and put the second batch right onto the trub and yeast from the first > batch? Or should I go through the process and wash the yeast with > sterile water as described in the Yeast FAQ? > > Specifics: The yeast is Yeast Lab A03 London Ale. Right now it is > finishing up fermenting a porter, and I am planning on making a = oatmeal > stout this weekend. The starting gravity of the porter was 1.058, and > the stout will be in the 1.045-1.050 range. > > Concerns: Since Ale yeast is top fermenting, will the yeast at the > bottom of the primary be the "good yeast" or is the "good yeast" still > suspended and only the weaker yeast is on the bottom? Will having the > new batch sitting on top of the old batch's trub cause any trouble?=20 > I'll rack it off in five or six days. I would like to thank everyone who replied. The results were = unanimous...something like 15-0. Everyone agreed that throwing the new = batch on top of the old batch's trub and yeast was the best way to go. = Though two people said that they only use the yeast from the secondary. Well I went ahead and used the yeast from my primary and all I can say = is WOW! It started bubbling at about six hours, and when I got up this = morning, it had blown the lid off of my airlock. There was kraeusen = everywhere, and it was still bubbling; a big mess, but I loved it! I want to put out an unsolicited plug for Ray Daniels' new book = "Designing Great Beers" (ISBN 0-937381-50-0). I have learned so much = from this book, Dave Miller taught me how to brew, Ray Daniels shows how = to brew to style. (Note: I'm not associated with Ray or his book, blah, = blah, blah). Thanks again Tim M. Dugan Ps. I'm still looking for any information you might have on a grain bill = for an Irish Ale. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 22:31:50 +1000 (EST) From: Charlie Scandrett <merino at buggs.cynergy.com.au> Subject: ssshhh!! Hop euphoria Tom Lombardo wrote >Does anyone know if the sedative effect is related to the bittering or >aromatic components of the hops? Or is it something completely different? The other drug in beer besides alcohol, is hops, in particular 2-Methylbut-3-en-2-ol. H3C \ C-CH=CH2 /| H3C OH This compound is created by heating during drying and boiling of hops and it is water soluble. It is a boiling degradation product of beta acids, so increases after extended storage of hops. I am sure this is why Lambic brewers use very old hops, they couldn't really like the taste of the stuff? I am translating a German article on it at present from Z. fur Naturforsch. It seems it would be maximised without high IBUs by massive mash hopping using old hops and increases during the boiling of the resulting wort. This may not produce a smooth bitterness, but could be somewhat more-ish? I don't think it would be a great idea to publicise the fact that a relative of marijuana (hops) has a mild narcotic effect in beer? The slight light headed sedative effect would overpowered by an exponential amount of prohibitionist hysteria! Busted for smokin beer, a bummer trip man! Charlie (Brisbane, Australia) That was a great Chimay red label.....yawn....zzzzzz Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 07:46:26 -0500 From: Louis Bonham <lkbonham at phoenix.net> Subject: HBD Policies Bruce Baker had the following question regarding the HBD guidelines: > 1. Our guiding principle is that the HBD should not censor or > delete *any* message that deals with beer or brewing. The > only exception is where the message *itself* is *clearly* > against the law; for example, a post containing an illegal > solicitation of investors for a microbrewery would be > deleted, but posts discussing marijuana beer or home > distilling -- while not encouraged -- would not > > Why is a message soliciting investors for a microbrewery illegal? > It sounds like free speech to me. It might contravene some other > HBD rule against commercial solicitation, but it seems far less > odious than a lot of stuff on the net. As the member of the steering committee who suggested this language, I'll take the liberty of responding. I suggested this language because in my law practice I've encountered a number of well-meaning would-be microbrewers who have told me something like "Hey, I've got a great idea for getting capital for a micro -- we'll get investors from posts on HBD and other places on the net!" Public solicitation for investors is tightly regulated in the US, both by federal and state law. Generally, if you want to publically solicit investors, you must comply with myriad state and federal registrations and pre-approvals. [Read: extremely expensive and time consuming] Solicitation without doing so is usually treated as securities fraud -- a crime and very bad heat. Most small businesses seeking investors utilize various "private placement" exceptions to the securities laws. While these laws vary from state to state, they are consistent in one important respect -- they include a complete ban on public solicitation, i.e., they are "private placements." As for the free speech issue, I'll spare the HBD the first year law school discussion on the distinctions between commercial and private speech rights. Suffice it to say that there are lots of people in jail in the US who have found out that the securities laws do not violate the first amendment. [Trust me, this isn't even an arguable position.] The laws may be different in other countries, but insofar as this digest is hosted in the US, we've gotta comply with US law. Bottom line: don't even think of advertising for investors (be it here or anywhere else) without very, very good legal advice that you can do so without landing in jail. Note that this response is mine, and does not necessarily speak for other members of the Steering Committee, yadda yadda yadda . . . Louis K. Bonham lkbonham at phoenix.net Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 17:17:04 -0700 From: Tim Plummer <plummer at brick.purchase.edu> Subject: dry yeast question Hello homebrewers, I have a newbie question about dry yeast. I just finished brewing my 5th batch. It was my second with dry yeast. (I try to use liquid when possible.) Within only a couple of hours, fermentation was fast and furious, and remained that way all through the day following pitching. However, this morning (day 2 since pitching) it has come to a dead stop. No activity in the airlock. Similar, but not so dramatic, activity happened the only other time I used dry yeast. Is dry yeast naturally less attenuating than liquid yeast? What is up with the rocket starts and dead stops? Thanks, Tim Plummer (Port Chester, NY) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 10:48:59 +0500 From: "Keith Royster" <keith at ays.net> Subject: Re: dry hemping AndrewsBru at aol.com asks: > I have always considered making beer with marijuana in it but > never knew any recipes or how I should go about it. Pat Babcock says in his message regarding new HBD posting policies that this subject is discouraged (but will not be censored). I've never quite understood why so many consider this question either taboo or silly (other than it's been asked before, but so has just about every question here), so I'll respond. This subject pops up occasionally on the HBD, so try checking the archives for more information. From what I've seen and heard discussed here, I'd say don't waste your time or money. The THC in pot is not water soluble but is alcohol soluble. The alcohol content in beer just isn't high enough to extract much THC. Even with a barleywine, I've seen recipies that call for about an ounce per gallon. Unless you're a grower, I don't see how anyone can afford to make a batch of beer like that! > If anyone knows any extract recipes or how you would go about > adding it to an already existing recipe. I suppose you could steep it in something like vodka or grain alcohol and then dump the resulting liquid in your beer, although I still have no idea how much to use. Either way, it sounds like an expensive and wasteful experiment to me. Keith Royster - keith at ays.net at your.service - http://www.ays.net Web Services - Design & Hosting starts at $60/yr! Voice & Fax - (704) 662-9125 Mooresville/Charlotte, NC Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 11:44:12 EDT From: billp4 at juno.com (William H Plotner) Subject: Cherries in my Stout HBD'ers, I've been reading the HBD for a while and finally have a question to post. I am fermenting a cherry stout. The question is, how long do I want to keep the cherries in the primary? Normally, I wait until the vigorous fermentation is done then rack into my secondary.Usually jest a few days. Would I want to leave it in the primary longer? How much longer? Thanks for any help. Bill Plotner Colorado Springs Billp4 at Juno.com In Search of the Eternal Brew Return to table of contents
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu From: "Bryan L. Gros" <grosbl at ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu> Subject: sanitizing keg outflow mcnallyg at gam83.npt.nuwc.navy.mil (Jeff) writes: > A couple of weeks ago I posted a question about how other people >sanitize the outlet side of a ball valve drain mounted to a converted >keg kettle. > > I got back a total of 8 responses (6 via private email and 2 here >in the digest). [3 different methods listed] I missed this question. My answer is...I don't do anything. Actually, I never thought about this before. I haven't had a problem either, so I guess I don't need to change my methods. But during the > 1 hr boil, the sides of the keg near the bottom get pretty hot. I have my ball valve connected directly to the nipple. I'm guessing the heat from the burner would kill anything that might be growing in there. I may try the alcohol method now though. - Bryan Gros grosbl at ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu Music City Brewers, Nashville TN Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 15:38:32 -0500 From: Brad Manbeck <bmanbeck at isd.net> Subject: Partial Mash & Hot Side Aeration I am an extract / specialty grain brewer with about 35 batches under my = belt. I am interested in moving to partial mashes to take the next step = towards all-grain. Here is my proposed method. I want to take between 2 and 4 pounds of = grain and mash with 1.25 quarts of water per pound at around 150 degrees = for 30 to 45 minutes. Previously I used two grain bags for my grain. = With the grain bags I was afraid I didn't get the optimal extraction = that I could have. What I'd like to do now is leave the grain loose. For my sparge I would = like to pour the grain water mixture through a strainer followed by 180 = degree water. Then continue with the boil and extract additions, etc. Now my main question is do I need to be concerned with hot side aeration = at this point, or do you only need to be concerned with hot side = aeration after the boil is finished? Are there any other major flaws = with my proposed quasi mash? Does anyone else use this method? If so, = are you happy with the results. Personal email responses are fine. I will repost the results once I get = them summarized. Thanks in advance for all the advice. Brad Manbeck bmanbeck at isd.net Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 17:29:01 -0400 From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at ccisd.k12.mi.us> Subject: Burners Kent Tracy commented that his friend could not bring a 33 qt enamelware kettle to a boil on his electric stove. I used to have the same problem. Finally, I looked under the kettle and saw that it was only resting on the outside edges of the two burners I was using. The sheet metal stove top must have had a slight downward flex between the burners. After I saw that, I bought a Cache cooker from Northern Hydraulics. 130 bazillion BTU's, propane, single burner. It was around $65 or $70 three or four years ago. There are many other brands on the market as well. I can tell you, a dedicated high output burner is the only way to go. My wife even likes it for browning meat for large batches of spaghetti sauce, etc., because it's so much faster than the conventional stove. Keep that in mind if you need to justify the expense to your spouse. R.B.Ricchi "Should anyone thirst, let them come unto me and drink" Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 19:59:20 -0700 From: "Kelly C. Heflin" <kheflin at monmouth.com> Subject: If you're bored.... If you're sitting out there reading this digest, but you are getting tired of making the same unexciting brew, over and over... Do what I did. Make yourself a nasty Porter. Even if you dont like Porters like myself. I mad me a Honey Porter with 2 lbs of fresh Honey, and man was it good. I had the keg to myself for about 3 days at home, took it to a party sunday and it's history. I finally got some rave reviews. I took a nice fresh Vienna Lager to the party also, but brought it home full. Not that it wasnt good, the Porter was great. I had to spend a lot of time warning people about the alcohol content. The stuff fermented from 1.07 to 1.01, yea it was strong. I dont usually bother sharing my recipes, but if anyone wants it let me know. I just gonna recommend lightening it up a bit with the malt and honey to reduce the alcohol. Well anyway, it wasnt boring.. see ya kelly kheflin at monmouth.com - -- Kelly C. Heflin Kheflin at monmouth.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 21:46:59 -0700 From: John Hessling <hessling at inlink.com> Subject: American Weizen Kit I brewed an American Weizen from a malt extract kit. The kit contained two 4 lb. cans of Alexander's Wheat malt extract. After boiling and adding water to make five gallons, I measured a SG of 1.054. This was a bit higher than I expected. I went ahead and pitched a stepped up Wyeast American #1056 (I think) and the fermentation took off prety quickly and went for almost 10 days at about 65 deg F. It finally slowed and I transferred (racked) to a secondary glass carboy for completion and clearing. I measured a gravity of 1.016, which is a bit higher than I expected. I bottle after about two weeks in the secondary and the gravity had changed much, about 1.014. I am no professional at tasting beer, but the brew turned out much heavier than I had expected. It is much maltier than a previous brew which had a much lower SG and OG. I have a couple of questions about this brew. 1) Did I start with too high a starting gravity? Should I have watered it down a bit? 2) Did the fermentation not complete? Was it due to the alcohol level? What are the characteristics of the yeast I used? Is this typical? Did I have a stuck fermentation? Should I have tried to ad more yeast to get a lower final gravity? I would appreciate any opinions from someone who might be familiar with this yeast and malt extract. I can be reached at: hessling at inlink.ocm Thanks for the help John Hessling Maryland Heights, MO Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 21:49:23 -0400 From: "Gerardo Godoy" <panasurf at panama.phoenix.net> Subject: FERMENTATION.... This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_01BC6A1E.AC638E20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have just made my second brew and the same thing happened again. I = followed all the kit directions to the letter, and made sure of having = everything well sanitized. Both of my beers have been ales since the = climate here in Panama is pretty hot. I do control my room temperature = to about 68-78 F......Fermentation started exactly next day after = pitching...Bubbling at full speed, you could even dance to it!, then = KAPUT!...no go, no more action, just silence, but good smell!!!!......My = first beer came out OK.....everyone drank it and said it was ok, I = personally did not like it very much, but it defenitly was not "rotten" = or anything....I could feel a little clorine in it, but I guess it was = the water. I just bottled my second batch, and the same thing happened to it...ONE = day of happy bubbling and KAPUT....silence..... I have used the liquid yeast that is so popular in the = catalogs......SHOULD I USE DRY YEAST to get more activity????....Can = anyone tell me what I am doing wrong? SALUDOS FROM PANAMA BAY BREWING Ltd.......Gerardo. - ------=_NextPart_000_01BC6A1E.AC638E20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D'"Trident 4.71.0544.0"' name=3DGENERATOR> </HEAD> <BODY> <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have just made my second brew and the = same thing=20 happened again. I followed all the kit directions to the letter, and = made sure=20 of having everything well sanitized. Both of my beers have been ales = since the=20 climate here in Panama is pretty hot. I do control my room temperature = to about=20 68-78 F......Fermentation started exactly next day after = pitching...Bubbling at=20 full speed, you could even dance to it!, then KAPUT!...no go, no more = action,=20 just silence, but good smell!!!!......My first beer came out = OK.....everyone=20 drank it and said it was ok, I personally did not like it very much, but = it=20 defenitly was not &quot;rotten&quot; or anything....I could feel a = little=20 clorine in it, but I guess it was the water.</FONT> <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I just bottled my second batch, and the = same thing=20 happened to it...ONE day of happy bubbling and = KAPUT....silence.....</FONT> <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have used the liquid yeast that is so = popular in=20 the catalogs......SHOULD I USE DRY YEAST to get more activity????....Can = anyone=20 tell me what I am doing wrong?</FONT> <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>SALUDOS FROM</FONT> <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> PANAMA BAY BREWING = Ltd.......Gerardo.</FONT></P> </BODY></HTML> - ------=_NextPart_000_01BC6A1E.AC638E20-- Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 22:59:13 +0500 From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at oeonline.com> Subject: Great Divide / Buddies Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... Has anyone yet extolled the virtues of the Great Divide brewery out of Denver here? If not, let me be the first (if so, let me the the x+nth). Last night I sampled their Arapahoe Amber Ale. When the roof came off at the Frankenmuth Brewery, I mourned for only one of their brews: Amber Ale. I would normally buy this beer in 5l minis, four at a time at Christmas, and give them to those I had given Fass-Frisch Beer King 2000's to. Keeping one or two for myself, of course. Not since that brew have I sampled one so lip-smackingly good! The caramel! The hops! Ah! Best drank from a hollowed-out steers horn ala Dragon's Breath Ale at the Detroit Renaissance Festival! This led me to Hibernation Ale. Mmmmmm. And then to St. Brigid's Porter. Ah! Heavenly! (Snigger!) Friends: This is a brewery to be reckoned with! Boy, howdy! - --------------------------- As some know, and others don't care about, my job has taken me away from Family, friends and (sob!) my brewery. Though I am finding entertainment and home brew in passing the craft on to twelve willing pupils (every wednesday night in my apartment in Plainsboro, NJ), I miss the "home" taste in home brew. And those brews left in my larder were not designed to hang around quite as long as I've had them now. :-( Thanks to friend and fellow F.O.R.D. member (Secretary, actually) Chris Frey, I now have a case of yet another rendition of my Cocoa and Cream/Nestle's Tollhouse Porter. Not only that, but he brought by the sample from the hydrometer flask! This promises to be quite a brew! Irish Oat Meal was substituted for the oats, and one part "Dutched" baking cocoa was substituted for one part of the Nestle's Tollhouse baking cocoa. Perhaps Chris, an avid (rabid?) hbd reader could be coaxed to share the recipe for his rendition here? My opinion is that he has hit upon a balance between the chocolate, hops and malt character not present in the original... See ya! Pat Babcock in Canton, Michigan (Western Suburb of Detroit) pbabcock at oeonline.com URL: http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/ Visit the HomeBrew Flea Market via my homepage! URL: http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 21:15:41 -0700 From: David Johnson <dmjalj at inwave.com> Subject: Weizen Fellow Brewers, Sometimes in order to get an answer to a question, you have to ask something you think you might know the answer to already. I just made a bavarian style weizen. I used wyeast 3068 and it has finished fermenting and is now sitting there looking murkily at me. I know that this yeast doesn't floc well and that the style can be cloudy but should I go ahead and bottle "Big Muddy". If I do, I suppose there are appropriate river songs to be sung. I have a sneaking suspicion that it might be starch haze (don't ask me to tell what I did, it was pretty stupid). Does starch have a bad effect on taste? I have tried to find mention of taste problems without success. Is that because there are none/few or because it is so bad no one would drink it? If starch causes taste problems, I would consider using gelatin and seeing if the yeast drops out (would this tell if it is starch?). If it is starch, is there a cure? If there are no taste problems, I will sing a few bars of "Deep River" and Bottle it. On another note, I read (I believe it was in one of Dave Miller's books) that one of wyeast's lager yeasts (?2206) when fermented at higher temps was a weizen yeast. I used to have a copy of the exact quote and one of my fellow brewers read it differently. Has anyone run across this besides me? I wouldn't mind a truely dual purpose yeast. Dave Return to table of contents