---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Oops! (Homebrew Digest)
  headspace (korz)
  decoction question ("Bryan L. Gros")
  Where Can I Purchase Yard Beer Glasses? ("Byer, Keith John")
  haze/dark malts and haze/THC/2L bottles/2L bottles and staling/Polyclar (korz)
  Re: Coleman cooler mash tun (David Elm)
  RE:Gott Cooler Flash HBD 2434 ("Grant W. Knechtel")
  AlK and CO2 Toxicity ("Nathan L. Kanous II")
  Grand Cru Classification ("Sieja, Edward M")
  Corny Dimensions ("Shaun Funk")
  Growing hops in Texas. ("Graham Wheeler")
  Side by Side Refrigerator Hints ("Mark Nelson")
  New brewing assistants have arrived! ("Keith Royster")
  Weizenbier, ("David R. Burley")
  Re: sparge times (Scott Kaczorowski)
  The Valley Mill ("DICK KUZARA")
  Re: canning unfermented wort ("Larry F. Byard")
  RE:Growing Hops (PickleMan)
  The Oklahoma City Bomb, The FBI and Me.- A Brewers' Story ("Rob Moline")
  Call for Judges - Montgomery County Fair (Steven Lichtenberg)
  new temperature controller (Forrest Duddles)
  Guiness Clone (mike maag)
  Re:Advice needed for IPA brewing (Jacques Bourdouxhe)
  Re: canning unfermented wort (Jacques Bourdouxhe)
  Archives (MCer1235)
  sparge times for batch sparging? (LINUSNLILA)
  brew on site (smurman)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 15:04:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: Homebrew Digest <hbd at brew.oeonline.com>
Subject: Oops! 

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

DUE TO TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES (sorta) BEYOND OUR CONTROL:

The Digest server experienced a slight IP-quake between the hours of
roughly 10:00 am and 3:00 pm Friday, June 6. During this time, mail you
sent to the digest just may have bounced, ricocheted, glanced or recoiled
off of the server. Our apologies. Please resubmit :-)

WE NOW RETURN YOU TO YOUR PREVIOUSLY SCHEDULED PROGRAM.

With Ko:lsch Ale wishes~ and Orval dreams, 
We remain
Ever:
The Home Brew Digest Janitorial Staff



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Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 16:02:07 -0500 (CDT)
From: korz at xnet.com
Subject: headspace

I've accidentally read a number of HBD's out of order and therefore posted
about headspace oxygen being a likely contributor to the headspace vs.
carbonation level phenomenon.  This was before I read Jeff's detailed
post on the differences in CO2 production with and without headspace
oxygen.

If Jeff's math and biology are correct, then headspace oxygen is indeed
*not* a factor.  I'm afraid I don't know enough of the biology to check
his work, but I recall a previous post in which there was a 6:2 (i.e.
3:1) ratio between CO2 production during respiration versus fermentation.
It seems to me that one or the other poster is misinterpreting something.

Could someone please resolve this discrepency?  Thanks.

Al.

Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at xnet.com


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Date-warning: Date header was inserted by ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu
From: "Bryan L. Gros" <grosbl at ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
Subject: decoction question

 Rick Dante <rdante at pnet.net> wrote:
>
>I brew Hefe Weizen using a 70/30 wheat to barley ratio with the
>proper culture of Weinstephan 368 yeast and I usually perform a triple
>decoction mash. ...

I've heard people argue that a good pilsner or weizen should be 
made with a decoction.  Certainly they have been traditionally made
that way.

I recently used a triple decoction on a bock and it came out great.  I
was amazed at the darkening that occurs when you boil the decoct.  
These dark compounds (melanoidans?) are probably what creates 
those malt flavors.  My question is, how do you make a pale beer like 
a weizen or pils with a triple decoction?  Do you boil less?

thanks.

          - Bryan
            grosbl at ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
            Nashville, TN


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Date: Thu, 05 Jun 97 17:06:00 PDT
From: "Byer, Keith John" <KeithB at is.state.sd.us>
Subject: Where Can I Purchase Yard Beer Glasses?


Anyone know where I might purchase 1/2 Yard, Full Yard, beer
serving glassware reasonably?  I'm getting hitched on July 4th and
thought it would be fun to purchase one for each of my groomsmen.

TIA,

 -Keith

keithb at is.state.sd.us  

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Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 17:44:36 -0500 (CDT)
From: korz at xnet.com
Subject: haze/dark malts and haze/THC/2L bottles/2L bottles and staling/Polyclar

Rob writes:
>        OTOH, haze causing proteins have a positive charge, hence polyclar and
>other haze reduction agents have a negative charge, such that they may act
>similarly to the yeast fining agents, that is, attract their opposite and
>flocc out.

and
>     And of course, it just hit me in the head like a flash! If in theory, the
>haze has an opposite charge to the yeast, why don't they flocc each other
>out, and eliminate the need for finings of either type? I'll leave this one
>to my more learned chemistry oriented colleagues. Any ideas, Al?  Once
>again, practical brewing defies theory!  ?

I can never remember those charges and I haven't been able to figure out
a way to remember them, so I always look them up.  Alas, my brewing texts
are 30 miles from me now.  I would like to point out, however, that there's
at least one small error in your initial logic... polyclar acts on
polyphenols and not proteins, so it's got the same charge as proteins
(whichever that is!).
 
***
 
Scott writes:
>As long as we're discussing haze, can someone please tell me why dark
>roasted malts are supposed to create a clearer beer.  Other than they
>create a darker beer which light won't penetrate as easily.
 
One reason is that they lower the pH of the mash/steep and therefore reduce
the amount of polyphenols extracted.  They will lower the pH of the boil
too, which will reduce the amount of polyphenols extracted from the hops
(about 1/3 of the total amount).

***
Yellowrug writes:
>Since both hops and pot belong to the same family of plants, it is
>possible to hybrid the two, resulting in (depending on your skill) a
>vine plant with flowers that produce THC.
 
This was tried by many in the 60's, with 0% success (or at least that's
what was posted in the HBD back around 1988 or 1989.  Check the archives.

***
Paul writes:
>In my experience with 2l coke bottles is 3 to 3 1/2" headspace works
>best.  Do not squeeze the bottle after drinking as this will draw out the
>CO2.
 
Hmmm... it seems to me that the headspace of the partially-filled bottle
will equalize in concentration with CO2 in the beer *regardless* of whether
there is air in the headspace or not, right?  In other words, air in the
headspace of the 2-litre bottle will not prevent CO2 from coming out of the
beer.  It's not intuitive, but some laws of physics simply aren't intuitive.
 
***
Richard writes:
>Much has been said about storage of beer in plastic soda bottles
>(using carbonator) but I don't recall any concrete experiments.
>Has anyone bottled several beers and then sampled them after
>different time periods to see when the oxidation is detectable?
>Any single datapoints out there? One or two weeks has been thrown
>around as a reasonable maximum time to keep beer in a plastic bottle,
>as I recall. Anyone want to volunteer to do the experiment?
 
Ahh, but you must make sure that you consider other anti-oxidising
factors.  Unoxidised melanoidins are great oxygen scavengers.   I
had a English Dark Mild that was 18 months old and still made it to
the second round of the AHA Nationals last year.  It had virtually
no oxidation which I attribute to pretty decent technique and the
melanoidins in the beer.  Oxidised melanoidins will oxidise other
compounds in the beer (hop oils, alcohols, etc.), but unoxidised
ones are very desirable.
 
***
Matt writes:
>6.6# John Bull Dark LME
> .5# Roasted Barley
> .5# Flaked Barley
>3 oz Fuggles (4.0% AAU--60 minutes)
 
>Basically, my question is: can I just
>steep/single-infusion-mash the flaked barley? Will it give me the
>taste I'm looking for or will I need to mash it with some two-row?
 
I believe that the flaked barley may have made it into this recipe
from a very old recipe of mine that I posted long before I knew what
I was doing.  I believe there is a recipe of mine in Cat's Meow that's
like this.
 
Bottom line: don't add flaked barley unless you mash it!  Since the
beer is dark, you probably won't notice the haze, but all you will
really get out of the flaked barley is starch haze.  Don't do it!
If you do want to use the flaked barley, yes, add a pound of Pils
or Pale Ale malt and mash it for an hour at 155F or so.
 
I wonder if there might be a way to correct past goofups in our
Cat's Meow recipes?
 
***
Mr. Sammy writes:
>I have in my posession two jars of polyclar.  One is labled Polyclar SB-100
>and the other Polyclar 10.  Does anyone out there know the difference between
>the two and which is the appropriate one to use in homebrewing.  How much
>should be used for 5 gallon batches and when in the process should it be used?
 
The difference is that one is considerably finer than the other... I don't
recall which is which.  Perhaps you can tell by looking at it?  Anyway,
both can be used but one settles much slower than the other.  Books will
vary in the amount they suggest you use from 1 teaspoon to 1/4 cup!
I used 3 teaspoons for a 5-gallon batch (if memory serves correctly) and
I added it by stirring it into a cup of boiling water and then adding
that to the fermenter.  It should be used when fermentation is over.  It's
purpose is to remove excess tannins from the beer and thereby minimize
chill haze.  I also believe that it helps settle yeast, but other finings
(such as Isinglass or gelatin) work much better.  When you add it, the
beer can foam quite a bit, so be prepared.  You should give it a few days
to settle before bottling or kegging.
 

Al.

Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at xnet.com


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Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 17:58:47 -0600
From: David Elm <delm at cadvision.com>
Subject: Re: Coleman cooler mash tun




>Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 08:49:20 -0700
>From: Ken Johnson <kenjo.abc at pogo.abc.wv.TEK.COM>
>Subject: coleman cooler mash tun
>
>I've been trying to find a 10 gallon Gott cooler for the longest time
>with no luck.  Yesterday I saw a 10 gallon Coleman cooler for $35.  It's
>tall like the Gott, but it has a square cross section.  Has anyone
>had any experience using the Coleman coolers as mash tuns?
>

  I have done 13 US Gal (final volume after boil) all grain batches in a
 Coleman Mariner (possibly the one you are looking at).  A matrix of 1/2"
copper pipe with slits in the underside of the pipe every 1/4" was placed
in the bottom and directed to a new drain. We went through 3 temperature
ranges by the addition of boiling water over a 100 minute period and the
key to this procedure working without needing a larger cooler was to keep
the water volume as low as possible for the protein rest.  If you are doing
smaller batches you won't have to be carful about this.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Elm  delm at cadvision.com  (403)932-1626 888-660-6035 fax:(403)932-7405
   Box 7, Site 5, RR 2, Glendale Rd., Cochrane, Alberta, T0L 0W0, Canada


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Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 21:21:44 -0700
From: "Grant W. Knechtel" <GWK at hartcrowser.com>
Subject: RE:Gott Cooler Flash HBD 2434

Price/Costco $19.99 everyday.  No affiliation outside of constant impulse
buying.
 -Grant

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Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 07:23:36 -0400
From: "Nathan L. Kanous II" <nkanous at tir.com>
Subject: AlK and CO2 Toxicity

In a previous digest (June 6, 1997) Al mentioned that some
"stuck fermentations" are just CO2 toxicity.  He says to 
swirl the carboy to see if CO2 is liberated and if the beer
continues to ferment thereafter.  My question is, what do
you do if your beer is suffering from CO2 toxicity?  I
recently had a batch that fermented fine for 3 days and
then pooped out.  I racked to a secondary and found tons
of CO2 in solution.  I proceeded to swirl/shake/dance with
the carboy at least once a day for what seemed like forever
(I think two weeks) and the gravity finally came down.  Is
this the only solution?  Help Al.  Thanks

Nathan in Frankenmuth

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Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 06:47:24 -0500
From: "Sieja, Edward M" <EMSieja at ingr.com>
Subject: Grand Cru Classification

jrmeans at nb.net wrote...

> Made a tasty Grand Cru not long ago...
> Nice coriander flavor...rich and creamy...
> Want to enter it in a competition...
> Not sure where to classify it, Belgian Pale or Belgian Strong

I have always put this in the Belgian Strong Ale catagory, however
the AHA guidelines for Belgian styles needs to be revamped.  I have
always agreed with Phil Seitz's (sp?) description for Belgian Strong
Ales.  Here it is.

1.062-1.120, 6-12% ABV, 16-30 IBU, 3.5-20 SRM  
Pale to dark brown.  Low hop bitterness and aroma ok, should blend with
other flavors.  Medium to high esters in flavor and aroma.  Phenols ok.
Often highly aromatic. Spices or orange ok.  Strength evident, but
alchohol flavor subdued or absent.  Medium to full body,  sometimes with
a high terminal gravity. Medium to high carbonation.  No roasted flavors
or diacetyl.

Belgian strong ale recipes are usually formulated to show off yeast
character, with all other ingredients playing a supporting role.  The
flavor may be subtly complex, but should not be crowded.  Body is
comparatively light for beers of this strength, due to use of brewing
adjuncts or of pilsner malt only.  High carbonation also helps; these
beers should feel like mousse on the palate and have an impressive head.
The best examples may be noticeably strong but still have no alchohol
flavor.  Flemish examples tend toward higher terminal gravities
(1.025-1.050), while Walloon versions are usually more attenuated.

Due to the vagueries of AHA style categories, Trappist strong ale clones
(Chimay, etc.) should be submitted in this category.  Despite what
Michael Jackson says, Saisons are strong ales and should also be
submitted to contests in this category.

- -- Ed Sieja



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Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 07:56:09 -0400
From: "Shaun Funk" <shaun.funk at slkp.com>
Subject: Corny Dimensions

I am considering buying a used refrigerator which will initiate my foray
into
kegging.  What I need to know is what the dimensions of a 5 gallon 
cornelious keg are.  I am primarily concerned about the height 
dimension.  I don't want to buy a fridge that the keg(s) won't fit in.
Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,

Shaun Brews Funk
Clemmons, NC
shaun.funk at slkp.com 

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Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 13:19:39 +0100
From: "Graham Wheeler" <Graham.Wheeler at btinternet.com>
Subject: Growing hops in Texas.

HOP GROWING IN TEXAS.

I would suggest that Tim Haby's problem with growing hops in Texas may not
be as much to do with the climate in Texas as the daylight length. Hops
have a very marked photoperiodic response: if the daylight length is too
long or too short the hops don't grow properly. It is daylight length that
triggers the flowering.

R. A. Neve in his book "Hops" (Chapman & Hall, 1991), mentions an
experiment to grow hops in Kenya in 1955 in which the hops behaved just as
Tim described; but by artificially controlling daylight length the hops
were grown successfully. Neve mentions another experiment in 1983 where
three cultivars from England, Germany, Yugoslavia, were all grown in the
three respective countries at latitudes of 51, 48, and 46 degrees, and also
in France at 47 degrees latitude. The English and Yugoslavian hops showed
steady reduction in yield as the hops were grown further away from their
point of origin. The German hops were more erratic in performance, but most
German hops have parentage outside of Germany anyway, and this may account
for this. 

Bear in mind that when Tim does manage to grow hops in Texas, he will
possibly have a different flavour of hop to the prototype variety. Even in
England, the best Fuggles are reputed to be grown in Worcestershire and the
best Goldings in East Kent, and this could be attributed to differences in
daylight length over a short distance of less than 200 miles. Commercial
brewing books printed in the 1940s and the 1950s mention attempts to import
American-grown hops into Britain, but they had this "American" flavour and
aroma that did not find favour with the British taste. Significantly, even
when British varieties of hop were grown in America, after a couple of
years they reverted to this "American" characteristic. This may again be
due to differences in daylight length. Presumably we British have now got
used to this "characteristic", because plenty of hops are imported from
America these days. 

Different varieties of hop have different requirements for daylight length,
so it sounds as if  home brewers in Texas will have to get together and
experiment, each growing a different variety of hop, until they find the
one that does best. I can't help thinking, though, that you may have to
imitate the seasonal daylight hours in, say, Yakima, to grow hops true to
type. At least it is easier, although expensive, to artificially increase
daylight, than to artificially decrease it. 
 
Graham Wheeler
High Wycombe
England.

   

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Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 08:54:52 -0400
From: "Mark Nelson" <menelson at mindspring.com>
Subject: Side by Side Refrigerator Hints

Since the collective is so 'quiet', here's a few questions about side by
side refrigerators and their use for brewing.

BTW, the fridge in question is being donated so whatever the answers are
I'll probably take it!  Also, planning on using a Johnson Controls
thermometer with the fridge.  Lastly, I brew in glass 5-7 gallon carboys
and don't keg (yet).

1)  Can I easily use the freezer side of the fridge for lagers and the
fridge side for ales?
2)  If so, how should I best calibrate the temperature between the two
sides?
3)  Do both sides work from the same compressor?  If not, do I have the
opportunity to monitor both sides with different JC thermometers?
4)  (I haven't seen the fridge yet in person but,) can I expect only one
carboy to fit on each side of the fridge?

Personal e-mail would be fine.  I can forward to anyone else that's
interested.  TIA.

Mark in Atlanta.

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Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 16:06:43 +0500
From: "Keith Royster" <keith at ays.net>
Subject: New brewing assistants have arrived!

URGENT ANNOUNCEMENT! 

HEADLINE!! - Royster Brewing & Co. Triples in Size Overnight,
Considers Offering Public Stock Options!

The Royster Brewing & Co. has just hired two new brewing assistants!
Jackson Thomas Royster joined the upstart brewing venture on Thursday,
June 5th at 12:59 PM with brother Grant Hardman Royster signing his
contract just moments later at 1:00 PM.  Weighing in at 6 lbs 2 oz and
4 lbs 11 oz respectively, the two brewers are considered lightweights,
but plans are to catch them up to speed quickly by supplementing their
liquid diets with beer (root) and ale (ginger).

When asked how they felt about their C-section entry into the
company, Jackson responded, "It was a bit traumatic, but at least I
don't have a pointy head now!" Grant added, "And we seem to have more
hair than our boss!?"

Mother & Father are doing well, although a bit exhausted and frazzled
by the sudden growth in the company. "We have a lot of work ahead of
us, but we are looking forward to it," said mother Alisan. "We expect
that it may take 18+ years for this investment to break even and we
really hold no hope of ever turning a profit," says master brewer and
new father Keith.

Perhaps you should hold off on that investment...... ;)

Keith Royster - keith at ays.net  <<< *NEW* address!
 at your.service - http://www.ays.net
 Web Services - Design & Hosting starts  at  $60/yr!
  Voice & Fax - (704) 662-9125
   Mooresville/Charlotte, NC

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Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 16:13:54 -0400
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Weizenbier,

Brewsters,

I recommend Eric Warner's book "German Wheat Beer" from which I extracted=

some of the comments below.

Weizen is wheat.  Weiss is white. Weissbier means white beer because all
the other beers are much darker. It is also a sort of pun since these two=

words sound similarly.

Hefe Weissbier or Hefe Weizen both refer to any Weissbier that has yeast
(hefe) in it.

I remember reading  that some of the export hefeweiss beer have no yeast =
in
them at all.  Trub is added to the beer to make it cloudy and look like a=

hefeweiss. Presumably this will prevent yeast autolysis during
pasteurization and  when the beer is mishandled during transport.  Mr.
Hanghofer was reluctant to reveal this fact, but he indicated that export=

weisssbier is not the same as beer bottled for local consumption.  I assu=
me
this is what he meant. (nicht wahr?)

I have drunk Hefeweiss from the tap a number of times at street fairs in
Germany in the summer. Often there is so much  yeast that you cannot see
through the beer. And the taste is distinctly different from the bottles =
we
get here. The former having a higher ester/phenolic content.  My daughter=

tasted one of my weizen and said "That tastes just like a German wheat
beer."  Who says all that college tuition is going to waste?    My son
brought me some bottles of hefeweiss from Germany and I didn't find the
beer to be any different from the bottles I had in the US of the same bee=
r.
 Puzzling, huh? Unless he bought them at the airport and they were the
export variety.


Keep on brewin'


Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Dave_Burley at compuserve.com  =

Voice e-mail OK =


 =


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Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 11:01:40 PDT
From: Scott Kaczorowski <kacz at aisf.com>
Subject: Re: sparge times


Al K. says in HBD 2435 regarding sparging:

> 10 minutes is *far*, *far* too short.  An hour is more like it.

It depends on what you're after.  I routinely collect 12 gallons of
runoff in 20 minutes.  My effeciency is lousy, but my time is worth
*many* *many* hundreds of times more than the pennies saved by
hideously long sparges.  Further, I do not have to worry about such
things as insulating my mash tun and hot liquor tank.

The only problem I've had with this method is on the few occasions
when I've gotten a slow/stuck sparge, my OG has been (predictably)
much higher than I was after.  No biggie, I dilute, adjust my hopping,
I get more beer out of the deal.

I certainly agree with Al in that how you sparge is heavily dependant
on the vagaries of your brewery and your personal preferences.  But
I also agree with whoever said "Life is short, grain is cheap."  And for
*me*, this is the base issue here.


Scott Kaczorowski
Long Beach, CA
kacz at aisf.com


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Date: 6 Jun 1997 13:53:48 U
From: "DICK KUZARA" <DICK_KUZARA at itd.sterling.com>
Subject: The Valley Mill

                      Subject:                              Time:  13:42
  OFFICE MEMO         The Valley Mill                       Date:  6/06/97

"Rob Kienle writes: Does anyone out there have any experience with or
recommendations regarding The Valley Mill? Came across it on a web search
and it looks fairly interesting (large hopper design)."

I have the Valley Mill and, though I have not tried any of the other mills, I
believe the Valley is at least as good as any of the others.  I have to admit
I am able to use the finest crush setting and I don't get a stuck sparge but I
believe that is due to my false bottom design.



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Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 12:05:31 -0400
From: "Larry F. Byard" <lbyard at gwi.net>
Subject: Re: canning unfermented wort

I'm a novice... After reading everything I could on the subject of =
liquid yeast and the recent articles on  the potential of Botulism in =
unfermented wort, I adopted the following procedures for maintaining a =
stock of yeast.

1. Smack the pack of original yeast (50 ml), let it ferment until it is =
past the point that it is ready to pitch, and store it in the refrig in =
a small, sanitized bottle.  I use recycled Smuckers jelly jars.  Loosen =
the top a few times to let any C02 escape.

2. Prepare about 1 1/4 liters of wort (I have a formula for this at =
home), dump into a sanitized 1 1/2 liter wine bottle, sanitize an =
eyedropper, carefully (keep things clean, etc.) add about ten eye =
droppers of starter from step one, cap with airlock, ferment a few days, =
and store in refrig with airlock on until CO2 ceases, then cap.

3. Make three five-gallon batches from the starter in the wine bottle.  =
Store wine bottle in refrig between batches.

4. Save the sediment from each of the three batches in sanitized jelly =
bottles.  I usually get two jelly jars of sediment from each batch.  I =
don't do anything fancy when saving sediment...  Carboy: just swirl =
around what is left in the bottom, sanitize the top (flame it if it =
"looks" bad), and dump into the jelly bottles.  Plastic fermenter (I use =
both): swirl around sediment, and scoop-out with sanitized cup.

5. Start one batch with each jelly jar from Step 4.

6. Repeat steps 2 through 5.

Thus, each ten eyedroppers full make about nine batches.  Also,  when I =
first put the original starter into the jelly jar, I make three cultures =
in 50 ml bottles, which I bought at a health food store, for long-term =
storage, to start the whole thing over when the original starter is too =
old to pop.  I'm on my second wine bottle with Wyeast #1338.  I've =
gotten reasonably good starts and no bad batches so far.  Larry



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Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 08:31:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: PickleMan <wrp2 at axe.humboldt.edu>
Subject: RE:Growing Hops

Tim Haby wanted to know about growing hops in hot weather.  I don't think
that high temp is your problem.  The Yakima Valley in eastern
Washington (one of the greatest hop producing areas in this country and my
former home) is one of the awefullest places I've ever been.  I can
remeber trying to avoid the heat by going skinny dipping on several
ninety-degree nights (and those are good memories indeed!)  Maybe soil
improvements might help.  Adding some compost, ash, or potting soil might
give you the loamy-type soil that hops desire.

PickleMan
wrp2 at axe.humboldt.edu


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Date: Fri, 06 Jun 97 11:30:31 PDT
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at kansas.net>
Subject: The Oklahoma City Bomb, The FBI and Me.- A Brewers' Story

		The Jethro Gump Report

The Oklahoma City Bomb, The FBI and Me- A Brewers' Story

	Now that Tim McVeigh has been tried, I am reminded of events that brought
the Little Apple into the glare of investigation.
	The LABCO was closed by the owners on January 1, 1995. Within 2 weeks, I
had been contacted on behalf of the owners to take over the reins of the
brewery, by the new GM, for an new opening date in April.  The GM was still
employed by the local Country Club, and I was still working part time in
the operating room at a local hospital.
	So, for January, February, and some of March of '95, this meant that there
was not always someone here to receive packages of malt, hops and other
samples.  
	So, by having all shipments to the LABCO addressed to my post box at the
Mail Boxes Etc., just 3 doors away, I could always be assured that  someone
would be around to receive our packages, even when we weren't here. This
worked well, and when all my cases in surgery were done, I could still get
what I needed, that day, whether or not I returned to the brewery at noon
or 6 in the evening. And as time progressed, we re-opened our doors on
April 17, '95.
	On April 19, we, like the rest of the world, were shocked at the news from
Oklahoma City. But, here in Manhattan, we were dumbfounded to learn,
through press reports, that the crime had been planned and perpetrated, in
part, right on our backdoor steps, with links to Manhattan, Junction City
(20 minutes away), Fort Riley (15 minutes away), and Herrington (45 minutes
away). 
	Within days, the ATF and FBI presence in the area was felt, as a base camp
for them  was established at Camp Funston, a portion of Fort Riley that was
a major staging ground for preparation of troops for WW 1. Barricades of
armored vehicles, manned by guards carrying automatic weapons surrounded
the camp, sending chills up your spine as you drove past. Groups of men,
wearing light summer jackets conspicuously bulging, descended upon the
town. Within a few months, things settled down, and we continued brewing
and cooking.
	So, you may imagine my surprise when, some months later, I called my hop
supplier to order more hops, and my customer service rep said, "Uh, Rob,
did you know that the FBI was just here asking about you? They wanted to
know what was in the package I sent you on a certain date."  Of course, the
package was a shipment of 22 pounds of hop pellets, that had been delivered
to Mail Boxes.
	Then, when calling a maltster, "Oh, yeah, by the way, the FBI was just
here asking about you." "What did they want?," I asked. They asked about a
package I had sent you, to an address at the Mail Boxes. "What did you tell
them?" "Only that the package contained malt samples. They asked to see
some malt, and asked what it was used for. But when they asked, "Is it
explosive?", and I replied " 'Only in certain circumstances,' they sure
made a lot of notes!"
	Asking questions at Mail Boxes cleared the deal up. It seems that Terry
Nichols had a box at the MBE, and was using it under his name, and also,
either with an alias, James Rivers, or that a James Rivers was also using
the box. It seems that while any parcel sent through the U.S. Postal
Service leaves no paper trail, unless it is registered or certified,
everything sent through UPS, FEDEX and the like does. So the G-Men were
checking on every package sent to that particular Mail Boxes, in case there
was any other links to the crime to be found there.
	But, the kicker came when I called Karen at Brew Pack, our growler
supplier to get in a shipment. "Hey, Rob, the FBI was here to ask about
you." "Oh, yeah, how did it go?" "Well, they asked about some packages I
sent you and they wanted to know what was in one particular one." 'Which
was?" "That growler carrier sample I sent you, the nylon insulated one.
They asked 'What is a growler,' so I showed them one. Then they asked
'What's a growler carrier?"  
	Karen said that eyebrows were definitely raised when the only one she had
in her office to show them was a camouflaged model that said, on the front,
"Brew Free Or Die!"
	As my learned colleague from Free State said, "Who said Kansas was boring!"

	(This is not to make light of a tragedy. It is just one more brewers'
story.)
Jethro Gump

Rob Moline
Little Apple Brewing Company
Manhattan, Kansas

"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!"

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Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 10:50:47 -0400
From: Steven Lichtenberg <slichten at mnsinc.com>
Subject: Call for Judges - Montgomery County Fair

The 2nd Annual Montgomery County (Maryland) Fair amateur homebrew competition 
will be held on August 16, 1997 at the Montgomery county Fairgrounds.  We 
cordially invite you to be part of one of the largest county fairs in the 
country and hope that you will judge/steward.

Last year, our first, we had over 200 entries.  we anticipate even more this 
year.

The competition is sanctioned by the AHA and BJCP.

Interested parties can contact Steven Lichtenberg
email:slichten at msninc.com
or by phone at 301-990-8430.

We look forward to seeing you there.

        ****  ----  "There's always time for a Homebrew!"  ----  ****
     O|     |  --------------  Steven Lichtenberg   ----------------   |     |O
        \__/     ------------  slichten at mnsinc.com  -------------      \__/
                    -----------  Programmer at Large  ------------
                     ----------  Lichtenberg Consulting  ----------
                      -----------  Gaithersburg, MD  -------------
                       ---------------------------------------------
                       ENJOY LIFE -- THIS IS NOT A REHEARSAL


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Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 10:57:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Forrest Duddles <duddles at kzoo.edu>
Subject: new temperature controller

Greetings folks,

 I've been lurking on the list for awhile and have learned enough from it
to make some great improvements in my beer. Thanks to all who have posted!

 Those of you looking for a digital temperature controller to add to a
chest freezer or similar application may wish to check out a new 
controller from Ranco. They have released a new temperature controller
that is similar in concept to those built around Radio Shack's
temperature control module.

 The unit may be used in heating and/or cooling mode over a wide
temperature range (-30F to 220F), has an adjustable differential (1F to
30F) and uses a SPDT output (presumably a relay). The picture shows the
unit to be rectangular (perhaps 3"x6" or so) with a digital display,
up/down arrows and a "set" button. The temperature probe appears to be a
thermistor (I'm not sure of the length). The unit is available for use
with 120/208/240 volts -Ranco model ETC111000-000(Johnstone stock no.
L38-382) or 24 volts - Ranco model ETC112000-000(Johnstone stock no.
L38-383).

 Current capacity for the 120/208/240 volt model is 15 amps 
resistive at 120vac, 8amps resistive at 208/240vac for the normally open
contacts and 5.8 amps resistive at 120vac and 2.9 amps resistive at 208/240vac
for the normally closed contacts. Current ad price through 6/30/97 is
$34.90 for the 120/208/240 model and $32.90 for the 24 volt model. This is
cheaper than parts alone for a controller made around the Radio Shack
module (I know, I've built one). 

 Ranco supplies controllers to many oem's so this controller should be
widely available though refrigeration wholesalers. The ad I received was
from Johnstone Supply - a nation-wide appliance and refrigeration parts
wholesaler. I'm not affiliated with them or Ranco in any way other than I
have puchased refigeration supplies from them occasionally over the years.
I have ordered a unit for evaluation and will post more when I gain
experience with it.

 Look for a Johnstone branch in your area (there are many). They generally
sell wholesale only, but will usually sell to those who act like
contractors :-). Many branches will sell mail order.

 Hope this information helps!

- ---------------------
Forrest Duddles - duddles at Imbecile.kzoo.edu
Environmental Technician/Science Facilities Specialist
Kalamazoo College - Dow Science Center 
1200 Academy st. Kalamazoo, MI 49006    
616-337-7261 voice & fax                         


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Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 10:16:23 -0600
From: mike maag <maagm at rica.net>
Subject: Guiness Clone


On Wed, 04 Jun 1997 Matthew Arnold asked:


Now my new question: my wife is currently seven-plus months pregnant.
She likes stout (pause for oohs and ahhs), so I promised her I would
brew one for her that would be ready after she gives birth. Here is
the recipe I was going to try, based loosely on Papazian's "Dark
Sleep" Stout and AlK's Medium-Dry Stout. Basically I'm looking for a
Guinness-esque (draught version, of course) Stout with a little extra
sweetness. Her favorite is Sherlock's Home "Stag's Head" Stout.

6.6# John Bull Dark LME
 .5# Roasted Barley
 .5# Flaked Barley
3 oz Fuggles (4.0% AAU--60 minutes)

I was planning on dumping (dropping? Is that the right term?) it on
the yeast cake of Wyeast #1338 European Ale I have from my Altbier.

I know that two key ingredients for Guinness are roasted barley and
unmalted barley. Basically, my question is: can I just
steep/single-infusion-mash the flaked barley? Will it give me the
taste I'm looking for or will I need to mash it with some two-row?

Thanks for any help,
  Matt


It will work fine just to steep the flaked barley and roasted barley at 150 F
for 30 min.   I would up the flaked barley to 1 # though, also, it will
taste more like Guinness if you use Wyeast 1084 (Irish ale yeast).  I made
essentially this same receipe and it turned out great !!

Cheers! 


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Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 14:48:41 -0400
From: bourdouj at ERE.UMontreal.CA (Jacques Bourdouxhe)
Subject: Re:Advice needed for IPA brewing 



Hi Brauwmeisters
Dave Riedel wants to brew an IPA, great idea Dave, I'll be brewing one on
saturday.

What sort of crystal and how much? how about 5 to 6 % of  caramel 60
Lovibond ( Hugh Baird ). If you want a darker colour like Bass or McAuslan
( great Canadian beer ) add 0.5% chocolate malt.

Base malt? I used the Hugh Baird pale ale malt ONCE, there was at least 20
stones in the 4.5 kilo used for the recipe and it was only the second time
I was using the new MaltMill my wonderful wife just gave me as a birthday
present.I have good results by blending 2 row malt ( Harrington ) with 10
to 15% Munich malt.

Sugar? 5% turbinado sugar or pale brown sugar.

Adjuncts? if you like a sweet finish ( like double diamond ? ) use  10%
flaked maize

Bittering hops? Forget about cascade, you are brewing an IPA not a Yakima
PA. A blend of 50-50 Golding and Northern Brewer works well.

Finishing hops: Golding  30 gr for 10 minutes or 15 gr Northern Brewer.

Yeast? I use WYeast London Ale, but the best clone of Bass was made with
Tom Caxton dry yeast!!! of course the yeast was so good that it was..
discontinued.

That's my $.02 ( Canadian )

Jacques in Montreal

*************************************************
* Oh beer! O Hodgson, Guinness, Allsop, Bass!   *
* Names that should be on every infant's tongue *
* ( Charles Stuart Calverley )                  *
*************************************************



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Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 10:54:23 -0400
From: bourdouj at ERE.UMontreal.CA (Jacques Bourdouxhe)
Subject: Re: canning unfermented wort

Hi Brauwmeisters,
In HBD 2433, Brad Manbeck wrote:

>I am interested in canning a mini batch (3 gals) of unfermented wort
>for storage and then later, use as a yeast starter. I am trying to gather
>information on how other HBDers have done this in the past. Any
>procedural hints or other tips would be greatly appreciated. Private
>emails are welcomed.

Brad,
I started PRESSURE canning ( did you say botulism !!!) my starters 5 years
ago and I really like the process because 4 hours of work allow me to
prepare the slants and starters I need for one whole brewing year.Once the
starters are canned it only take a few minutes work to step from the yeast
pack or the slant to a 1 litre starter ( I know I am underpitching but my
sanitation process is OK )
A few tips:
1) The O.G. of the starters is around 1.045
2) The starter can be hopped or not.I like hopped starters because it gives
an idea of what the finished beer will tastes like, but i doubt a hopped
starter will prvent a bacterial contamination
3) I don't use mason jars,I found the Everfresh (TM) fruitjuice bottles a
lot more convenient because you can easily adapt a stopper with an airlock
on it.
4) I step my starters the following way: from slant to 20ml test tube,to
0.1 litre (small fruitjuice bottles ) to 1 litre ( big fruitjuice bottles
).

The only contaminated batch I had in 5 years was caused by some Ringwood
yeast stolen from a brewpub !!!
I found the book from Pierre Rajote " First steps in yeast culturing " very
helpful and interesting
I hope this helps.

Jacques in Montreal


*************************************************
* Oh beer! O Hodgson, Guinness, Allsop, Bass!   *
* Names that should be on every infant's tongue *
* ( Charles Stuart Calverley )                  *
*************************************************



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Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 11:14:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: MCer1235 at aol.com
Subject: Archives

Hi all!

I just wanted to remind all HBD users that there is an Archive where you can
search for old threads that potentialy deal with the question you have in
mind.  If you have internet access you can go to http://alpha.rollanet.org
and find it under HBD.

The only reason I waste bandwidth with this is the fact that it looks like a
lot of people post to the HBD before they even do a search of the archive.
 Canning wort, hop growing, etc., are topics that have been dealt with not
too long ago.

My 2 cents,

Rene'



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Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 20:34:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: LINUSNLILA at aol.com
Subject: sparge times for batch sparging?

I have been using a batch sparge technique for a few months now, where I
drain off the first heavy runnings and then pour all of my sparge water into
my mash/lauter tun.  I stir the mash again well, and then recirculate at
about 170 F for only 20 minutes.  I then simply transfer the thin wort to the
boiler without further disturbing the grain bed.  I get pretty good mash
efficiency this way, without seeming to lose any sugars with the short sparge
time.  Is anyone else using such a short sparge, and is there anything
besides the extraction of sugars, and not tannins, that I need to be
concerned about while sparging?

Linus Hall
Nashville, TN


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Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 21:12:14 -0700
From: smurman at best.com
Subject: brew on site


My neighbor just got back from one of those "brew on the premises"
places that have sprung up.  I found the setup he described kind
of interesting.  Apparantly they brew up a large batch of wort,
and then each different "custom" batch is made by steeping the
grains.  I didn't have the heart to tell my neighbor that his
wheat beer probably wouldn't have any wheat in it.  At least I
hope not.  

He brought up that this was actually the 2nd time they'd made
his batch, as the first "went bad somehow".  It turns out they're
using 7 gallon plastic buckets as fermenters.  I can see these
things being a contamination problem with as much use as they're
probably putting them through.

I'm brewing a decocted wheat beer this weekend, so we'll be able
to do a back-back taste test.  I'm pretty sure my brew will look
pretty good.  I'd be surprised if their wheat beer has any 
wheat in it, or used anything other than the Chico yeast.

SM

P.S. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against these places.  They're
making money, making beer, and making people happy.  I'm all for
it.

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---