---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Clockwise otherwise... (Jason Henning)
  Re: Rosemary Pale Ale ("Paula Goldman")
  Counterpressure & N2 (JUKNALIS)
  motorized Corona mill (Scott Dornseif)
  Grits in beer ("Ted Major")
  Fermentation won't start (Julio Canseco)
  Simulated Bubbly ("Byer, Keith John")
  Coopers vs YL Australian (Daniel S McConnell)
  Mill Motor Conversion (PAUL W HAAF JR)
  lactos must die! (Jim Liddil)
  Traditional Wits/Scotch ales (Jim Busch)
  Re:Drilling Enamel Pots, Channeling? (aab1)
  Re: Batch Sparging (KennyEddy)
  Corn (John Wilkinson)
  Re: Batch Sparging (hollen)
  Scottish Ales / Iodophor residue ("Ian Wilson")
  LoDo Beer, Wine, and Food Festival (John Adams)
  Storing Extract, Cleaning Stainless, Killing Yeast. (Allen Czajkow)
  rosemary beer ("Bryan L. Gros")
  batch sparging ("Bryan L. Gros")
  Re: Carbonation Level of German Wheat ("Hubert Hanghofer")
  Newbie all grain question (Andrew Stavrolakis)
  Technology Brewing and Malting (Glenn Raudins)
  Re: Preparing malts (Jorge Blasig - IQ)
  Recipe for San Miguel Porter? (WindRiver)
  Shipping Brews (The Holders)
  Shipping Homebrew (Denis Barsalo)
  kieselguhr (Andy Walsh)
  juggling brewers (AlannnnT)
  MOTORIZED CORONA MILL (T. R Clouthier)
  Re: Corn, not in beer, but sort-of related to brewing ("Brian Dixon")
  Taps for chest freezer (rcs8)
  Growing Hops (Brad Manbeck)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 14:56:54 -0700
From: Jason Henning <huskers at cco.net>
Subject: Clockwise otherwise...

Hello-

My friends were at the micro-fest in Portland a month or so ago. They
grabbed a fliers, posters, labels, tabletents, whatever was available
and dumped it at my house. Most hit the curb the next day but there was
a cool Hop Union poster that I put up in the brewery. 

It goes through 'the life of a hop'. I kind got a laugh from one of the
comments, "Hops are trained clockwise", what differance does it make. My
friend said he commented about it when he read it to at their booth. The
rep said he too wondered about it the first he read it. So he asked
about. The hops track the sun through the sky and will naturally spiral
clockwise. I'm wondering how many times a day a hop will spiral aroung a
rope?

Of course, our friends down under should train their hops
counter-clockwise.

Cheers,
Jason Henning (huskers at cco.net)
Big Red Alchemy and Brewing
Olympia, Washington - "It's the water"

And, no doubt about it, wealth makes materialism easier to bear - P.J.
O'Rourke


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Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 07:20:41 -0400
From: "Paula Goldman"<Paula_Goldman at peoplesoft.com>
Subject: Re: Rosemary Pale Ale





"Ted Major"<tmajor at exrhub.exr.com> asked about use of rosemary in ales
About two years ago, I decided to try making a rosemary beer for the club's
halloween meeting.   I placed 4 large sprigs of fresh rosemary into a hop
bag, tossed it it into my 3 gallon corny keg, and did a keg to keg transfer
of about 2 gallons of mild onto the rosemary.    The rosemary flavor
transferred itself into the beer in a matter of days, and was somewhat
overwhelming.   Rosemary has a very resiny quality, and much of that came
into the beer, too.

My suggestion is that you "dry rosemary" with relatively little of it (and
use fresh rosemary!).   A little goes a long way, and while my beer was
unquestionably a rosemary beer, it was a bit overpowering.   Don't use
resiny hops, since you'll get plenty of it from the rosemary.




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Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 08:13:39 -0500 (EST)
From: JUKNALIS <juknalis at ARSERRC.Gov>
Subject: Counterpressure & N2

Sorry if this has been thrashed about before but
has anyone tried counterpressure bottling with 
nitrogen or N2/CO2 mix?  

I've had N2 forced homebrew & at the pub.
It really changes the quality of the brew.
(see the recent Ale St. News for review)
I wuz wondering if that quality comes thru
in counterpressuring.

    thanks
        
        Joe


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Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 07:50:05 -0500
From: Scott Dornseif <roundboy at wwa.com>
Subject: motorized Corona mill

Hey
In response to Steve Phillips swp at datasync.com request:

I built a little wood 2x2 frame for my corona and motorized it with a 3600
RPM grinder motor.  I didn't want the Corona to turn any faster than 100
RPM guessing that it wouldn't stand up to any more than that so:  I use 2)
1 inch, 1) 10 inch and 1) 6 inch pulley to step this down.  The motor shaft
has a 1" pulley that drives a 6 inch pulley on a shaft mounted with 2, (oil
impregnated brass),pillow blocks. the 1" pulley at the other end drives a
10" pulley mounted on the Corona shaft.  In theory this should reduce RPMs
to 60 at the Corona, I counted 80, (no-load), using a stop watch.  This is
still slow compared to the fine roller mills available, but some times ya
gotta use what ya got.

Good Luck
Scott Dornseif


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Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:29:23 -0400
From: "Ted Major"<tmajor at exrhub.exr.com>
Subject: Grits in beer





Mark Rancourt asks about using grits in beer in HB #2443.

I recently brewed a batch of cream ale using 2.5 lbs of yellow corn grits
and 7.5 lbs of Briess 2-row pale malt for 5 gallons.  I cooked the grits
for 30 mins, cooled to 152F and mashed with the 2-row for 60 mins.  OG
after the boil was 1.052.  I used cascade hops at 60 and 30 mins and
willamette at 15mins for an estimated 17-22 IBUs, depending on whose
formulas you like to believe.  I kegged and force carbonated to 2.5 vols
CO2.

There were a few things I learned from this experience.  First, cooking the
grits takes a great deal of water, which in turn leads to a very dilute
mash.  (That was my last batch mashed in a 5-gallon kettle in  the oven.)
I had to split it between a 5-gallon and a 3-gallon pot (it seemed to be
about a 7-gallon mash, I'd estimate).  In the future I'd cook the grits
with less water and go with a stiffer mash for the barley, which I mashed
in at 1.3 qts/lb.

Also, as George de Piro noted in the same digest, adding corn to the mash
dilutes the malt flavor and seems to cause a greater perception of
bittering.  This brew seemed a bit more bitter than the numbers indicate
(to the liking of me and my wife but a wee bit too much for my
Bud-light-swilling kinfolk), so slight underbittering might be in order.

I also used yellow corn grits, which turned out to be the same price at the
grocery store as barley malt at the homebrew store;  next time I'd use
white (hominy) grits, which are a good bit cheaper than the yellow grits,
at least in these parts.

Ted Major
Athens, Georgia



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Date:         Wed, 18 Jun 97 09:17:31 EDT
From: Julio Canseco <JCANSECO at UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>
Subject:      Fermentation won't start

Greetings,

Sunday I brew a dark ale. Most typical ingredients. Recipe called for
5 lbs. of SFX malt extract and one pound of dry malt extract. I am not
sure what SFX means (help needed here). My supplier had some cans of
SFX malt extract (can't remember brand name) however the expiration date
on the cans was Dec. 96. They were on sale; cheap me I got two. Since
the two cans amounted to six plus pounds I skipped the dry malt extract.
SG was 1.056. Pitched two packets of dry yeast (rehydrated).
The cans were slightly bulged and only hissed when I opened them, Smelled
and tasted OK.
Primary is in the kitchen.Upper 70's room temp. No activity noticed yet.
Any advise will be most welcomed. E-mail or post. IMBR?

Mea culpa.

                      julio in athens, ga.

"Athens is a drinking town with a football problem" Olympic t-shirt logo.

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Date: Wed, 18 Jun 97 08:29:00 PDT
From: "Byer, Keith John" <KeithB at is.state.sd.us>
Subject: Simulated Bubbly


Greetings all,

Has anyone out there created sparkling wine out of regular wine?

Last weekend I used my Carbonator (TM) along with my CO2 setup to give a   
20 oz PET bottle full of commercial White Zinfandel some fizz.  It tasted   
pretty darn good, and I'm almost certain that the average person would   
identify it as sparkling wine/champaign.

I have a chart that helps me to determine the correct amount of CO2 to   
add to flat beer to achieve a particular style's carbonation level.  Is   
there such an animal for sparkling wine?  If not, could someone give me   
an educated guess as to how many liter volumes of CO2 I should add to   
each liter of wine to achieve simulated sparkling wine?  It just seems   
like sparkling wine has more carbonation than even the most bubbly   
brew....

TIA...Keith

keithb at is.state.sd.us








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Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:57:42 -0400
From: danmcc at umich.edu (Daniel S McConnell)
Subject: Coopers vs YL Australian

From: JONATHAN BOVARD <j.bovard at student.qut.edu.au>

Hi Jonathan!

This was sent to me this morning by Jeff Renner regarding Coopers vs YL
Australian ale yeasts:

>Sorry but the two are different yeast.

Are you referring to the DRY or the LIQUID culture?  If you are talking
about the DRY culture, I have no idea what the original source was.  It was
produced by Mauri.

>How am Qualified to say this?
>1. I live in australia and have used both
>2.Ive got a friend whos a Microbiologist, homebrewer and professional
>brewer and he says they arent the same.
>They are similar though!

I would be interested in the basis of this assumption.  How were they
compared?   PCR, FA analysis?  Taste analysis?  Were proper controls
included in these experiments?

Coopers as used by the brewery is undoubtedly a mixed culture.  This mixed
culture seems to include a phenol producing yeast that some can taste in
the beer.  We might go on to speculate that the Liquid YL version is a
careful selection from the mixed culture that was Coopers.

Dan



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Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 10:10:17 EDT
From: haafbrau1 at juno.com (PAUL W HAAF JR)
Subject: Mill Motor Conversion

I'm not sure of the type of mill it was, but in one HB store, all they
did was attach a variable speed power drill.  They made a little tray out
of wood for it to rest on, and you just pull the trigger!  This is cheap
(assuming you have a drill {male grunt noises}), and easy.  No gears,
wheels, or pulleys, just remove the mill handle, and attach the drill
chuck.  Hope this helps.

Beer that is not drunk has missed it's vocation. - Meyer Breslau, 1880
Paul Haaf
haafbrau1 at juno.com

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Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 7:37:08 -0700 (MST)
From: Jim Liddil <JLIDDIL at AZCC.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: lactos must die!

Scott wrote:
> ruining my pale ales later on.  I've been told that iodopher and
> bleach have *not* completely removed lacto cultures from fermenters,
> and I think I've even heard that autoclaving has not worked.  Again, I
> don't have first-hand info on this, so if anyone can clear this up,
> please do.
> 

Autoclaving will sterilize objects when done properly.  This means all the
microorganisms (spores included) will be dead.  Once and for all let's put this
myth to  rest about brewery bacteria surviving autoclaving etc.  FWIW I brew
lambic style beer in plastic and use all my equipment for all the same beers. I
am extermely anal about proper cleaning and sanitization.

Jim
www.u.arizona.edu/~jliddil

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Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 10:42:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Traditional Wits/Scotch ales

Regarding the question on brewing Wit biers:

Mark notes Martin Lodahl's BT article (which is very good IMO) 

<1) 2-row or 6-row -- Martin suggests 2-row pils malt, Belgian if you can
<get/afford it.

Just about any pils malt will do, although there is no doubt that continental
pils malt are the best choice.   I like Belgian pils but I prefer German 
pils malt more.

<2) Decoction

I dont use it but A.J. deLange has and he makes a damn fine wit.

Kit suggests:

<2 row Belgian. Too many enzymes in the 6 row.

Im not sure what is wrong with more enzymes in a wit but normal pils
or lager malt should be fine.  Remember that with enzymes one can 
choose temperatures that maximize or minimize their activity.

<You don't want the flavor of decoction in a wit.

Depends on how careful you are with decocting.  I would imagine that
the old time traditional wit bier production had to depend on some form
of decoction mashing or boiling of the wort/water to achieve the 
increases in rest temperatures.

<Step mash 125-132-141-156-168.

Sound like a good mash program to me.  

<Use flaked wheat not wheat malt.

Kit and I have disagreed on this point before and Im not suggesting that
his procedures will result in a poor beer rather I am a traditionalist
and prefer to emulate historical practices where I can.  Really a  wit
bier should be made with raw wheat, not malted wheat or flaked wheat
which costs much more than raw.  Just my preference.

<Use the right yeast. BrewTek and Yeast Culture Kit Co have the best wit 
<yeasts.

Excellent advice!

<Add the orange peel and coriander to secondary so the aromatics don't get
<scrubbed.

Here I really dont concur.  Some boiling of both coriander and orange peel is
desirable.  If one wants to enhance the effect then additional spices can
be added to the fermenter but thats not a typical procedure in Belgium.
I have spoken with a brewer at Hoegaarden about this.  Be sure to use the 
right Curacao peels and high quality whole coriander seed, freshly crushed
just prior to use.

Regarding Scotch ales versus English bitters....

<Most importantly, the yeast(s) used contribute a completely different
<taste profile. 

I think this is a key distinction.  Also the methods where yeast is
pressed and dryed and then repitched in huge quantites lead to unique
flavors. 

<In addition to the multiple layers of residual malt,
<many of the Scottish ales had slight hints of wine or a vinous taste. 

I wonder how much of this is a result of phenolics from wild yeast.
The practice of yeast pressing would indicate to me a high probability
of wild yeasts becoming resident.  Maybe Bill Ridgely could chime in 
here with his expert opinion.  I know Bill made some fantastic Scotch
ales with dry yeast but when cultured the results were not nearly as
pleasing.

Prost!

Jim Busch

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Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 11:07:30 -0400
From: aab1 at chrysler.com
Subject: Re:Drilling Enamel Pots, Channeling?

- ---------------
From: Dave Whitman <dwhitman at rohmhaas.com>

In HBD#2442, Doug Otto asks:

>Has anyone tried installing an easy masher in an enamel on steel pot?
>If so was chipping the enamel while drilling a problem?  I recently
>made move from 50/50 grain/extract to full mash and am finding that I
>miss not having the spigot on my new brew pot...

I've drilled 2 enamel pots to install easy mashers.  I did get a little
chipping, but it was minor enough that I could cover it with the rubber
washer that makes the seal with the pot.

I recommend sandwiching the inside and outside of the pot with blocks of
wood held together with big clamps, then drill through the wood.  A
carbide
bit will help you get through the glass enamel coating.  1"x1" strips
are
narrow enough that they fit the curve of the pot fairly well.
       *********************

I too have drilled some enamel pots and think that this wood thing is
a bit over kill.  Take some masking tape and put it on both sides. Drill
a small pilot hole and take about 2 or 3 more steps to bring it up to
size. When I did this there was virtually no chipping.

Speaking of easymashers and channeling and batch sparging, I've been
"Fly
Sparging" with my easymasher, adding water by hand using a small bowl
sitting on the grain bed to prevent disturbing it too much. My
efficiency
seems to only be around 55% ~ 60% tops.  My mash techniques have been a
single infusion at 150 for 70min. My grain is crushed at the homebrew
shop using a knurled(standard, I think) phil-mill (also I think). I
usually
spend about 45min to an hour sparging.

So, what avenues should I pursue to get my efficiency up? Crush?
Channeling?

One thought I had was to replace the easymash screen with a circular
copper slotted manifold, maybe with a part jutting into the center as
well (like an upper case G).

Any thoughts appreciated

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Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 11:06:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Subject: Re: Batch Sparging

Mark Peacock responded to my Batch-Sparging post:

 " I've always mashed in at 1.33 qt/lb, which (if I'm reading the formula
 correctly) would be A + B.  A would then be 1.33-B or 0.81 qt/lb.  Am I
 reading this correctly?"

Yeah, this could be confusing; you put in A+B and get A out, so I'm looking
at it more from that angle.  In either case, you just need to be sure that
you get enough "A" out of both runoffs to meet your volume requirement.
 
 "I usually do a semi-batch sparge -- I don't drain the bed completely,
 but instead add a quart of 170F sparge water periodically to top-up the
 liquid level.  I've had good efficiencies and bad efficiencies. 
 However, I believe that the most significant variable for me is crush
 quality."

There are a million factors which will affect the outcome; this exercise was
simply to create a benchmark against "normal" sparging to evaluate the
process' potential.  Seems there are several other brewers who does what you
do, sort of in-between batch-sparging and full-sparging.

Dion Hollenbeck brings up an interesting point about using a RIMS with
batch-sparging.  Since the wort has been circulating through most or all of
the mash, at a rate higher than the typical non-RIMS sparge, the first runoff
can be done at full-throttle as Dion suggests.  For the second runoff,
recirculating after adding the water would be simple and again would allow a
faster runoff.  In this case, batch-sparging may actually be faster than
full-sparging.

AlK chimed in with:

"Saying that batch sparging "can be almost as efficient" as 
fly sparging, assumes that the fly sparging is 100% efficient.
In most cases, it is not.  The factor you have forgotten Ken,
is *channeling*."

I thought I did indicate that my term "efficiency" meant that compared with
"fly sparging", not conversion efficiency.  If batch sparging is 90% as
efficient as a fly sparge on a 70% efficient conversion, then my total
efficiency is 90% of 70% or 63%.  That's what I meant.

As for channelling, batch-sparging should alleviate this problem to an extent
since the stirring of the grain bed after the first runoff and prior to the
second would redistribute the grain bed.  Channelling may again occur, but
the lost wort would be considerably more dilute, meaning less sugar is lost.

*****

Ken Schwartz
El Paso, TX
KennyEddy at aol.com
http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy

  >>


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Date: Wed, 18 Jun 97 10:12:14 CDT
From: jwilkins at imtn.tpd.dsccc.com (John Wilkinson)
Subject: Corn

Russ Brodeur asked about amylase enzymes in corn making it sweeter when
cooked.
I have grown a little corn and find it sweetest if immediately cooked after
harvesting.  I have been told or read someplace (or both)  that enzymes
in corn start converting sugar to starch as soon as the ear is pulled and
that this action is stopped by cooking.  I know that corn pulled and cooked
later is not nearly as sweet as corn cooked immediately even if frozen
after cooking and eaten later.  I try to drop freshly picked ears in boiling
water for a few minutes and then freeze them.  This year I plan to set up
my propane burner and keg-kettle next to my garden and blanch the corn as
quickly as I can pick it and shuck it.

John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkins at imtn.dsccc.com

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Date: Wed, 18 Jun 97 08:13:30 PDT
From: hollen at vigra.com
Subject: Re: Batch Sparging

>> KennyEddy  writes:

K> Dion Hollenbeck brings up an interesting point about using a RIMS
K> with batch-sparging.  Since the wort has been circulating through
K> most or all of the mash, at a rate higher than the typical non-RIMS
K> sparge, the first runoff can be done at full-throttle as Dion
K> suggests.  For the second runoff, recirculating after adding the
K> water would be simple and again would allow a faster runoff.  In
K> this case, batch-sparging may actually be faster than
K> full-sparging.

While doing a second recirculation may be useful to boost extraction
rate, I have never done it.  I drain, fill with sparge water, drain,
fill, drain.....  usually for 3-4 cycles.

dion

- -- 
Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164                 Email: hollen at vigra.com
                                             http://www.vigra.com/~hollen
Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs  San Diego, California

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Date: Wed, 18 Jun 97 08:22:53 PDT
From: "Ian Wilson" <iwilson at lightspeed.net>
Subject: Scottish Ales / Iodophor residue

Scottish Ales:

OK Guys! Knock it off! My reply regarding Scottish Ales was ment mostly =
as a humorous post. It was definitely not meant to spark heated debate.

You guys need to lighten up. Times too short and there are way too many =
beers to brew to waste time yelling at each other over the e-mail ether.

I regret ever having opened my electronic mouth, now. Does anyone know =
of a site with a bigger sense of commerderie and humor?


Iodophor residue:

I use iodophor regularly. I, too, worry about and can often taste the res=
idue. I learned to get around this by rinsing my iodophorized (God help =
me for succumbing to the -ize craze) equipment.

Water?!? No way!!! I use a very common and extremely cheap sterile fluid =
with a neutral flavor profile when compared to my beer.

What is this miracle fluid you ask?!?  Commercial, canned beer!  Lucky =
Lager, Keystone, Ralph's Beer, Coors, Miller...any major commercial beer.=
 In cans, they're all pasturized and sterile! Best of all, they're cheap!

Brew your own good beer, but buy cheap beer for rinsing!

A related, but true story regarding this phenomenal rinsing agent:

A few years ago, one of my son's friends managed to steal a couple of can=
s of Bud from the fridge at his house.  He and my son were hunkered down =
outside under my bedroom window. I happened to wal in just in time to hea=
r:

"Het, Look what I got! Let's have a beer!"

My son responded, "No thanks, that stuff is keg wash! I'd rather have a =
decent bottle from my Dad's!"

The Bible says, "Train up a child in the way he should go and he will fol=
low that path forever."

Ian Wilson
iwilson at lightspeed.net


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Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 10:14:41 -0600
From: John Adams <jadams at pipeline.cnd.hp.com>
Subject: LoDo Beer, Wine, and Food Festival

                   1997 LoDo Beer, Wine, and Food Festival

June 14-15 was the "1997 LoDo Beer, Wine, and Food Festival." Held in the
shadow of Coors' Field in Lower Downtown Denver, Colorado. The event name
has changed to reflect the selection of food, wine, and meads in addition to
beer.

Traffic on Sunday was light but casual keeping the lines at the taps short.
The weather was a very pleasant 70 degrees. The clouds threatened rain but
could never muster anything more than shade.

I have made this event each and every year trying Colorado's newest beers.
Expecting to find excellent beers, delicious foods, and quality cigars I got
more, a lot more.

"Phantom Freeway and the Bad Ass Horns" played excellent rhythym and blues
from the likes of Robert Cray, Little Feat, James Brown, including one of
their own, "Mile High." Drinking fine brews, smelling the whiff of an
excellent cigar, enjoying great food, and listening to fantastic blues, I
was truly a "Mile High."

Their first set was to die for but LoDo was rockin' during their second set,
a salute to Jake and Elwood. Great Blues Brothers cover tunes such as "Peter
Gunn Theme" and "Soul Man" had everyone on their feet and enjoying LoDo's best
beers and blues!

If I have my way, next year's event will be called the LoDo Beer, Wine,
Food, and *Blues* Festival!

John Adams
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alcatraz Brewing Company
Pelican Pale Ale (3 out of 4 stars)
     Slight malt sweetness in the aroma. Nice noble hop bitterness that
     quickly dies out leaving a nice malt and hop after taste.

Bull & Bush
English Cream Ale (2.5)
     Creamy, hop astringency in the aroma. ESB-like bite in the malt. Creamy
     sweetness characteristic of caramelized sugars. finishes sweet and gets
     better with each swallow.

Back Alley Brewing Co.
Reliever Kristall Wheat Beer (2.5)
     A pleasant malty wheat but not truly clear and clean enough for the
     style. Very slight astringent hop finish and has a nice sweet malt
     lingering after taste. Very pleasant. A little too heavy for the style,
     needs to very palatable and 'krystal' clean.

Gnash Brewing Company
Gnarling Wolf Wheat Ale (2)
     I'm picking up spices in the aroma, possible nutmeg? More of a spiced
     ale with wheat than a wheat beer. Malty without much hop but a slight
     astringent finish is apparent. A better cold season beer than a summer
     refresher.

Ska Brewing Company
Ten Pin Porter (3 **Best of Show**)
     My personal *Best of Show*, this must be a 'Blues Beer!' I enjoyed a couple
     of these fine brews while listening to "Phantom Freeway and the Bad Ass
     Horns" and the two were made for one another.

     Clean with a slightly bitter bite. Very dark and opaque but has a clean
     watery finish that is excellent for the weather. Hop aroma makes this a
     very, very pleasant beer.

Steamboat Brewery & Tavern
Alpenglow Strong Ale (2.5)
     A nice English style ale but not as strong an a ale as I expected from
     the name. Pleasant clean finish and a nice hop start. No astringency. A
     very nice ESB or possibly a light Scottish Ale.

Bristol Brewing Company
Mass Transit Ale (3)
     Hoppy up front and lingers into the after taste. No astringency and a
     nice special bitter (not quite an ESB) style beer. Nice caramelized
     sugar with a sweet malt taste. This is a very enjoyable beer.

Cheyenne Mountain Brewing Co.
Granny Gear Porter (2.5)
     Nice hop aroma with excellent head retention. Almost a stout and many
     stouts I've tried are less than this porter. Very nice but not quite a
     to style, more of a porter. Nice bitterness and a very clean hop
     finish.

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Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 13:32:28 -0700
From: Allen Czajkow <aczajkow at ford.com>
Subject: Storing Extract, Cleaning Stainless, Killing Yeast.

In my recent reading, I came across a comment that using old LME can 
contribute to a sherry flavor in the beer.  Since a) I have noticed this in 
my beers, and b) I do tend to buy my extract in quanitities larger than I can 
use in a short time (ie. when we get extra discounts during National Homebrew 
day, etc [yup, I'm cheap ;-) }).  I got to wondering, will storing the cans 
of extract in my keg fridge delay the change that causes the sherry flavor?  
It's a one compartment fridge with a largish "freezer" area that is usually 
empty - the freeezer area not the bottom - the bottom has a normal residency 
of four kegs - yum, hic!

In the cleaning arena, I have discovered that sprinkling dry TSP on a green 
scrubby and lightly scouring my corny kegs really cleans and polishes them.  
They end up looking almost new.  Does this treatment have any negative impact 
on the strength or durability of the kegs?

Finally, in the most recent edition of the Mead Lovers Digest, there was a 
comment that someone had killed yeast by putting the bottles into a 140 
degree hot water bath for about an hour.  Any thoughts on what this may do to 
beer?  After the bath, the remaining active yeast flocced and dropped out of 
suspension very quickly.  It seems to me that this might improve the beers 
stability over time if you are force carbonating anyway, want to stop the 
fermentation at some level of resdiual sugars (especially if doing extract 
and can't control the mash temp/time), or may be used if you want to bottle a 
still beer (ala Sam Adams Triple Bock).  Or am I completely crazy for even 
concidering this? - IMNTK.

(Side note to Pat B.  I would rather have beerling pour beer down my throat 
than shower me with it.....  Take me to your lager!)

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Date-warning: Date header was inserted by ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu
From: "Bryan L. Gros" <grosbl at ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
Subject: rosemary beer

>From: "Ted Major"<tmajor at exrhub.exr.com> writes:
>
>I've been thinking of brewing a rosemary pale lately.  I'm planning
>something along the lines of a single infusion mash, OG 1.050-1.060,
>probably whole Cascade at 60 min and 30 min, with a large dose of fresh
>rosemary at knockout to replace the aroma hops or possibly dry-herbing with
>rosemary in the secondary.  ....

I made a rosemary beer a few years ago (and a basil beer).  I was aiming
for a bit different result-- I used a sort of American wheat base and fairly
low hopping to bring out the herb.  While I liked the basil better, the
rosemary came out pretty well.

I figured rosemary is pretty strong, at least aroma-wise.  I used only
an ounce or two at the end of the boil.  The beer was not particularly
overwhelming, but the rosemary was definately perceptible.  With 
a highly hopped beer, you'd want to use a bit more.  Dry-herbing
wouldn't hurt if you want something strong.

It is good with pizza, and you can even use it to make the crust!

Good luck

          - Bryan
            grosbl at ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
            Nashville, TN


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Date-warning: Date header was inserted by ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu
From: "Bryan L. Gros" <grosbl at ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
Subject: batch sparging

People have been discussing the idea that it is easier to drain the 
grain bed of liquid during the sparge rather than trying to monitor
the inflow and outflow of sparge water.

Gary Knull <gknull at gpu.srv.ualberta.ca> wrote:
>
>...  I'll put in my bit. I, too, have resorted to batch sparging. Seven
>years ago when I designed and built my five gallon RIMS, I at first tried to
>use a sparging ring, a flat spiral of copper tubing with holes drilled in
>it, laid on top of the grain bed in my cylindrical combination mash /lauter
>tun. I was immediately disenchanted with the tedious process of standing
>there and monitoring the inflow and outflow from the tun over a period of 30
>to 60 minutes. I think the ring was retired after the second batch.

I use such a copper ring to deliver my sparge water.  I keep the hot
sparge water in a 5 gallon Gott to which I have added a ball valve
in place of the spigot.  After recirculating the runoff a bit, I run the
wort from the mashtun (via a ball valve in the bottom of a converted
keg) to the boiler and raise the Gott up to deliver the sparge water
on top of the grain.  It is a pretty simple thing, in my experience, to
match the flows.  You watch for about five minutes to get them
in synch and check again in 20 minutes.  Aiming for a one hour
sparge, the outflow is pretty low, so it requires very little 
monitoring to be sure the level of sparge water is not too high or
too low.

Just my experience.

          - Bryan
            grosbl at ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
            Nashville, TN


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Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 22:22:26 +0200
From: "Hubert Hanghofer" <hhanghof at ping.at>
Subject: Re: Carbonation Level of German Wheat

Phil <TheTHP at aol.com> wrote in HBD#2443 

> Q2: I just keged my Summer Weizen, How many ATM's should a proper
> German Wheat be carbonated at? 2.7-3??

Bavarian Wheat should be carbonated up to 5.5-9.0 grams CO2 per 
Litre. Bottling at +1.2 to +1.3=B0P above final Attenuation will 
yield in 6.5 grams per Litre -a level, that's said to be most 
common *)<? -see note>.

After a few days of "warm lagering" / diacetyl resting at 20=B0C (68=B0F) 
bottle pressure should rise to +2.0-3.5 bar (28-49 psi), then "cold 
lagering" (2-4 weeks) at 2-4 =B0C (35-39=B0F) can be started.

Reference: ISBN 3 432 84136 1 -L. Narziss, Abriss der Bierbrauerei

*) note that 1=B0P of fermentables would yield in 5.14 grams CO2/Liter, 
so the 6.5g/L given in the German literature seem to be the amount of 
carbonation in the bottle. If we take into account, that 1.6g/L is 
the CO2 saturation level at 20=B0C, this 6.5g/L should either refer to 
bottling at +0.9 to +1.0=B0P or 8.1g CO2/L in the final beer. Since we 
noted a drop in common commercial carbonation levels over the past 
few years, 6.5g/L should rather refer to the common target level in 
the final beer.

Keeping to this target, the pressure gauge of our control bottle 
usually displays up to +3.0 bars (42 psi) within one week at 20=B0C 
(68=B0F). We don't want to exceed this limit, if we can't maintain
sufficient cold conditioning at 2-4=B0C (35-39=B0F) during summer. 
Binding of CO2 may be poor and cause overflowing of beer at opening.

CHEERS &
Sehr zum Wohle!

Oliver Steiner    / Freising - Bavaria
Hubert Hanghofer  / Salzburg - Austria
http://www.netbeer.co.at/beer/

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Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 16:56:06 -0400
From: Andrew Stavrolakis <andrew_stavrolakis at harvard.edu>
Subject: Newbie all grain question

       
An update on my 1st batch of all grain:  the recirculartion of the entire
batch appears not to have any effect on the product, which result is
consistent with the opinions of those that responded to my original post.  I
tasted it before bottling and it is quite good w/ no off flavors. I do
notice a very distinct, but not unpleasant, grainy nuttiness.  Is this a
result of the ingredients, or my recirculation of 100% of the wort?  

BTW recipe was:
Grain bill = 5# British Pale, .5# crystal 40, .5# carastan for a 3 gal.
batch; wyeast 1335. mash into 9 qts water  at  165 (16 qt coleman cooler),
settled at 154, rest for 1.25 hour.  I broke my thermometer at this point so
I don't know how much heat I lost over the course of the mash.  As stated
before, had very quick sparge so I recirculated the whole batch.  Hops= 1oz
Goldings  at  60 min, .5oz fuggle  at  15 min, .5 Fuggle  at  0 min.

Also, another question occurs to me (forgive my rambling):

It's my understanding that proper champagne is fermented in the bottle.

How then, do champagne manufacturers remove the yeast sediment from their
bottles, producing such a crystal clear beverage?

TIA,

Andrew. 
************************************************************
Andrew J. Stavrolakis
Controller
LASPAU: Academic and Professional Programs for the Americas
25 Mount Auburn Street
Cambridge, MA 02138
phone:617-495-0543
fax:  617-495-8990
email:Andrew_Stavrolakis at harvard.edu
http://www.laspau.harvard.edu


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Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 14:40:41 -0700
From: Glenn Raudins <raudins at lightscape.com>
Subject: Technology Brewing and Malting

Has anyone seen the book "Technology Brewing and Malting" available from
VLB Berlin?  It is supposedly the english translation of THE german
textbook used in training.  Does anyone know of any retailers this side
of the Atlantic that may have this book?  Otherwise it is ordering from
Germany.

Information on the book can be found on the web at:
http://www.vlb-berlin.org/english/kunze/index.html

Glenn

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Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 19:05:15 -0300 (GMT-0300)
From: Jorge Blasig - IQ <gisalb at elmer.fing.edu.uy>
Subject: Re: Preparing malts

Dear Ken,
I posted this message in the HBD but nobody answered. May be you can help 
me me now with a short indication.

> I asked for information about preparing different kind of malts using pale 
> or pilsner malt. I received a couple of answer indicating that I can 
> prepare these malts by roasting my pilsner or pale malt in the oven. I was 
> also 
> informed that I can prepare crystals by kilning my malt after soaking it 
> and using aluminum foil ( kind of a mashing in the oven ). 
> However, I 
> still have a question. When I prepare munich or amber as an example, 
> using my pilsner or pale malt, should I soak it first or just roast it 
> in the oven directly? I am a little confused about it.
> Thanks for your replies.
> 
> Jorge Blasig
> 
> 

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Date: 18 Jun 1997 23:26:15 GMT
From: WindRiver at bitstream.mpls.mn.us
Subject: Recipe for San Miguel Porter?

Hello all,

This is Will with WindRiver Brewing. I was wondering if anyone had a recipe
for San Miguel Porter, or if there even is/or was such a thing.

A friend of mine said he used to drink San Miguel Porter and wanted me to
make a batch for him. I vaguely recall drinking San Miguel beer in college,
but I can't remember if they made a porter. I don't recall ever having it
before. If anyone out there has any ideas, I and my friend would be greatly
appreciative.

Thanks,
Will Holway
WindRiver Brewing

PS just send any recipes to this address, no need to post all of the recipes
unless you want to. 

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Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 16:59:35 -0700
From: The Holders <zymie at m4.sprynet.com>
Subject: Shipping Brews

I guess there is no need to fear now. Shipping beer via UPS will no
longer be a problem. How do I know this?  Easy. The AHA spirits have
been summoned by  this forum. I'm sure as much attention will be payed
to this thread as was given to the past threads concerning the AHA/AOB.

All of the 'Members' should run out right now to the local UPS hub,
bottles clanking, cause this is the 'New' AHA! The one that fights for
its members!

Wayne Holder,
Zymico, Home Of IGOR
Long Beach CA
http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/zymie/zymico.html


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Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 20:22:15 -0500
From: Denis Barsalo <denisb at CAM.ORG>
Subject: Shipping Homebrew

I've used FedEx to ship homebrew to competitions. I tell them the box
contains homebrewed beer and that it's packed "properly". I never get
hassled and the package is always there overnight. No I don't work there or
own any stock!

Denis



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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 10:32:31 -0700
From: Andy Walsh <awalsh at crl.com.au>
Subject: kieselguhr

Jim asked about DE in the fermentation.

The grade I was given is the coarsest (sorry, can't say exactly what
grade), and is used for green beer clarification. It eventually ended up
in the bottom of the fermenter with the yeast. I guess the finer grades
might be better if used for this purpose.

Some other points (not necessarily in relation to Jim's question):
 - DE is completely (dare I say that?) without direct flavour effects on
beer (except for secondary effects in altering fermentation conditions).
The *finest* grades, when used as a *filter* bed, can reduce bitterness
and haze associated flavours (?). This is due to the physical effect of
submicron filtration, rather than any chemical activity. DE is flavour
neutral, common and cheap, and is by far the most popular beer
filtration aid going.
 - The race is on to find DE alternatives. DE is said to be carcinogenic
when inhaled (not ingested), so must be carefully handled. It is also
not "green" as it is a mined substance (not artificial). Perlite is the
second most common filtration aid, but it is not as good in its
filtration characteristics.

So as a homebrew yeast anti-flocculation aid (which I guess all this CO2
nucleation thing is really all about), DE is probably as good as
anything - whether that is any good at all I cannot say.

Andy.

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Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 20:33:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: AlannnnT at aol.com
Subject: juggling brewers

I know this isn't keeping to the rules but I just gotta know- how many
brewers out there also juggle for fun or profit? You see I've met maybe 5 or
6 brewers who are also jugglers. [yes three or more balls or clubs in the air
at the same time] .
I know this might be out of bounds for the digest, but all the closet
brewer/jugglers out there will be glad to 'come out' and find comfort in
their confession. By the way, drinking homebrew and juggling at the same time
is more fun than just brewing and juggling.
Alan Talman
Figet Hut Brewing Co.
Karps Homebrew, E. Northport NY  

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Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 20:34:04 -0400
From: chop88 at juno.com (T. R Clouthier)
Subject: MOTORIZED CORONA MILL

Hi Rush long time lurk er first time...
Did I really do that? Sorry.
I am a lurking all grain guy, that enjoys the stuff I read here, and
would like to thank the kind
folks that bring it to me.
Anyway  Steve is in turmoil,  because he thinks that it may require
pulleys and all manor of wild stuff to 
make his mill time efficient.  Well Steve you need only a few things that
may or may not be readily 
available in your shop.
First you will need an old variable speed power drill 3/8 is fine.  A new
one will work here, but hey we 
are all home brewers here. Now  since I can't do ascii art worth beans, 
you have to imagine each one of these things 
inserted into its predecessor  
The next piece required is a 3/8 square drive phillips bit, Sears part
number 44372  I use this as a disconnecting 
part from the drill drive,
Next in line come a 1\2 nut driver. this is a screwdriver looking thing
with a 1\2" inch socket where the 
screw driver tip use to be. Don't get to attached to this thing  because
you have to take a hammer (sledge)
 and bust the handle off.  The last thing you need is a (Guessing here)
3\16" cap nut. this goes in place of the
 thumb screw that holds the handle in place. The size of the cap is
actually 1\2 " its the screw part that is 3\16" all 
this fits together (quiet nicely I might add) will go through a lot of
grain Double batch 22# in 10 mins.. quick and clean.

00Drill}=    --==     ====[         [~    ==[

drill^	bit^        ^driver    bolt^ mill^
I know the drawing sucks but  I am telling you it works great and I have
never considered trading up.
If I still have you confused send for a hand drawn version of this thing
and I will I think the whole thing cost less than 
15 bucks to put together.
Cheers!!!! from the CHOP
>From Pigdog Farm, division of Beer
PigDog Beer 
Nothing is as friendly as a cold wet dog 

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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 01:48:57 +0100
From: "Brian Dixon" <brian_dixon at om.cv.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Corn, not in beer, but sort-of related to brewing

>In HBD # 2441 I posed the question:

>> Could the "sweetness" of the cooked corn be enhanced by a
>> saccharification rest in the 145-50 F range before boiling??   

>Well, I thought the ears cooked by first resting 30 min  at  150 F tasted
>noticeably sweeter than those brought quickly to boiling.  My wife
>thought so as well.  My kids were not convinced, however.  So, I guess
>I'll need to run a few more experiments to prove/disprove my hypothesis.

>Who knows; once baseball is over, maybe I'll actually have time to brew
>again!  Gotta keep thinking about those mash reactions in the meantime,
>though.

>TTFN
>Russ Brodeur in Franklin, MA
> mailto:r-brodeur at ds.mc.ti.com

The key to whether or not this corn sach-rest thing would work would be
whether or not diastatic enzymes existed inside the corn kernels or not
at the time you did the rest.  Not sure on that one.  I wonder if you need
to
dry, then malt the corn to develop the enzymes first?  Of course, the corn
might pop like popcorn when you BBQ it after that, but what the heck?

Brian


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Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 17:56:07 -0400
From: rcs8 at en.com
Subject: Taps for chest freezer

I just bought a chest freezer for my kegs. Does anyone know where to buy
taps for mounting on the top. Also are there any guidelines for drilling
holes in the sides and tops of freezers? (Besides "Avoid drilling holes
in the refrigerant lines") :-)

Rob

- --
Robert C. Sprecher, M.D.
Pediatric Otolaryngology
Rainbow Babies and Childrens Hospital

http://www.cwru-ent.com/

To start the intelligence test, press control-alt-delete now.


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Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 21:06:58 -0500
From: Brad Manbeck <bmanbeck at isd.net>
Subject: Growing Hops

I have some hop vines currently going gangbusters. The area in which =
they are planted is not ideal however. They are climbing twine that is =
attached to the top edge of my garage (maybe 12 feet high).

Once the reach the roof what should I do? I was wondering if there would =
be any problem with training them horizontally away from the top of the =
current twine? Or should I simply let them vine their way on top of the =
garage?

This years crop is an experiment. If I like the outcome, I will have to =
rig up a better trellis system. I'm just trying to get by this year.

Any thoughts, suggestions, and input would be appreciated. Private =
emails are welcomed.

Brad Manbeck
bmanbeck at isd.net



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---