---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  CO2 saturation (Gary Knull)
  SUDS data expansion (Volt Computer)" <a-branro at MICROSOFT.com>
  Re. Peat Taste in Extract Brews ("Charles L. Ehlers")
  Dry Yeast Et Al ("Terry Tegner")
  Cheap Corny Kegs (chrome)
  Insulation for 15 gallon sanke kegs ( MARK J HAGEN)
  Malt Mill Musings (Doug Otto)
  Travel to the UK ("Susan J. Rankert")
  Affordable Conical Fermenter (Jimmy R Grubbs)
  Two Dogs, Lemon Brew (Niel Knudsen)
  C02 regulators leaking? (hardpipe)
  Bottle pasteurisation ("Terry Tegner")
  LUNAR RENDEZBREW IV (michael wiley)
  Moving refrigerators, problem solved! (George De Piro)
  Bottle Pasteurization & Sterile Filtering (Charlie Scandrett)
  Galley pumps as beer engines? (Mike Spinelli)
  batch sparge (Domenick Venezia)
  Re: Juggling (Chris Cooper)
  Dopplebocks (MCer1235)
  lacto follow-up (smurman)
  re: shipping beer (Sharon/Dan Ritter)
  Bavarian Weizen and temp. rests (Mike Spinelli)
  Re: Decoction Theories Put To Test (Scott Murman)
  Wits for judges (Kit Anderson)
  Re: Batch vs Fly (Cory Wright)
  Brewsletter Publishing (Randy Erickson)
  Motorizing MaltMill / AHA Conference ("Mike Kidulich")


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 19:52:48 -0600
From: Gary Knull <gknull at gpu.srv.ualberta.ca>
Subject: CO2 saturation 

"Dave Draper" <ddraper at utdallas.edu> wrote in #2440:


>Bottom line: I don't believe supersaturation happens in practical 
>settings except under very local and very transitory conditions; it 
>is not a characteristic of "the system" of fermenting beer + CO2.

I wish CO2 supersaturation was as transitory as you believe.  My beers
suffered from this problem for a number of years, 85 batches to be exact.
Please refer to my letter in BT, Sept/Oct 1996, pg. 14, Trouble With
Trubless Fermentations. My remedy was to leave the trub in all my worts,
including lagers, but I could not understand why other home brewers were
able to successfully ferment trubless worts while I couldn't. But the fact
was that all my ferments became stuck due to CO2 saturation which then
inhibited the normal operation of the yeast. Prior to leaving the trub in, I
had been using a specific brand of yeast nutrient to provide nucleation
sites so the CO2 could come out of solution. I didn't realize this at first,
I just knew it worked and I supposed that the yeast needed nutrients. But,
now I know that all-grain wort is not nutrient deficient. Neither would
nutrient cause the stuck-ferment wort to instantly foam over. No, it was the
multitude of nucleation sites suddenly provided by only that specific brand
of nutrient that afforded the CO2 the opportunity to finally come out of the
supersaturated wort in a most explosively dramatic way. I added small
amounts of the nutrient every couple days so the foaming would not be TOO
explosive. This problem plagued me from my first all-grain batch so I didn't
know how the fermentation should proceed normally; working in relative
isolation at the time, I supposed it was just an ornery quirk of all-grain
brewing. It wasn't until my 85th batch that I gently swirled the carboy and
had it blow the air lock off and foam all over for several minutes that I
realized it was CO2 saturation.
Leaving the trub in the wort has helped but has not been the complete
solution. Others have suggested DE or SS scrubs in the beer; I believe from
some of my experiments that these remedies will work but I'm looking in a
different direction.  I am still in the midst of a number of experiments to
find a definitive answer and I'm starting to get a handle on it, finally.
As Dave wrote, it may turn out to be a very local condition, but who knows
how many others with stuck ferments caused by CO2 saturation have
unwittingly developed this local condition in their brewery.  Sorry, I don't
want to say more than that until I'm sure about it; I already claimed
leaving trub in the wort to be the answer and had to back away from that claim.

CO2 Saturation is Alive and Well, for now. . .

Gary Knull
Edmonton, AB
Canada


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Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 11:49:43 -0700
From: "Brander Roullett (Volt Computer)" <a-branro at MICROSOFT.com>
Subject: SUDS data expansion

I use SUDS 4.0c (i looked at suds97 beta, and i wasn't really impressed)
and i like it.  Brewers workshop is pretty good, but i still lean
towards SUDS.  but one thing bothers me about SUDS is the relativly
limited selection of malt and extracts..  Has anyone expanded the malt
and extracts databases?  could i get pointers to a link to download or
simply send me theirs?  

Brander (Badger) Roullett  badger at nwlink.com  a-branro at microsoft.com
Homepage:  	http://www.nwlink.com/~badger
Brewing: 	http://www.nwlink.com/~badger/badgbeer.html


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Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 08:55:27 -0500
From: "Charles L. Ehlers" <clehlers at flinthills.com>
Subject: Re. Peat Taste in Extract Brews

>Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 11:36:41 -0400
>From: "Lee Carpenter" <leec at redrose.net>
>Subject: Peat Taste in Extract Brews
>Fellow stir-doctors,
>What is the best way to impart a natural peat taste in an extract beer? I
>want to attempt a clone of S.A. Scotch Ale.
>Lee C. Carpenter

Lee,
  I've heard of two ways and have tried one.  Either will work only if
you're doing "intermediate brewing", using some specialty grains in along
w/ the malt extract.
  WYeast makes a "Scottish Ale" yeast that helps to impart the taste you're
looking for.  I used that with 5lb. DME, 1lb. crystal malt, and 1/4lb.
toasted (350 degrees F, 10 minutes before crushing) malt.  It turned out
nicely.
  I've also been told you can achieve the same effect by using peat-smoked
malt.  Someone else is going to have to help as to where you can find it.
  Good Luck!

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Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 14:07:58 +0200
From: "Terry Tegner" <tegbrew at aztek.co.za>
Subject: Dry Yeast Et Al


i use a Whitbread dry yeast and had a similar experience to Tim, i.e. 
rapid fermentation of a 1050 brew down to 1020 and no further action, 
even though I waited another week. I bottled it and it was a fine , if a 
bit sweet, ale. Subsequent to this I acid washed the yeast and now it 
ferments down to 1008 with out any problems. The only other change was 
that I switched to aerating the wort with pure oxygen. Maybe we're back 
to insufficient wort aeration. Regards to all and please note my new 
mail address.
Terence "Phail Ale " Tegner


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Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 21:33:14 GMT
From: chrome at cts.nospam.com
Subject: Cheap Corny Kegs

In response to a thread that ran several weeks ago regarding the quest
for reasonably priced cornelius kegs - I found a place that is selling
pressure-tested, used 5 gallon stainless steel soda kegs with all new
gaskets for $14.95. Here's the URL...

http://www.brewgear.com

Hope this helps...

Chrome


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Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 19:31:13, -0500
From: QQMC27A at prodigy.com ( MARK J HAGEN)
Subject: Insulation for 15 gallon sanke kegs

A local homebrew supply owner mentioned to me that it would be nice 
to come up with some way of insulating the Sabco sparge/mash/boil 
kettles.  I just remembered about some stuff, called FIBERFRAX, which 
might do the job.  It is available through an aviation supply catalog 
and would not cost very much. 

The catalog description is as follows:  "Fiberfrax is a new material 
made from washed ceramic fibers with binders added to form a 
lightweight, flexible asbestos-free insulation.  Withstands 
temperatures to 2300 degrees F (two thousand three hundred).  
Avaiable in 24 inch wide rolls in 1/16 and 1/8 inch thicknesses."  (I 
have used Fiberfrax to protect brake lines from the heat of brake 
linnings and rotors and have had very good success).

Fiberfrax is white and is kind of like a stiff sheet of felt.  It can 
be easily shaped or folded.  A 24 inch width of material will reach 
from the bottom of a keg up to the handles.  A length of 
approximately 4 and one half feet would be required to wrap the 
circumference of the keg.  It could be held in place by wrapping with 
stainless steel safety wire or maybe even chicken wire.  

If the fiberfrax does not insulate as much as you would like, it 
would at least allow you to use other insulating methods over top of 
it, which wouldn't otherwise work against the bare kettle (ie: water 
heater jacket).

Materials avaiable from: 
Aircraft Spruce and Specialty Co.
(800) 824-1930

Fiberfrax:  1/16 inch     Part Number     970F     $1.90 per lineal 
foot
                   1/8  inch     Part Number     970J      $3.00 per 
lineal foot


Safety Wire  .032 inch diameter     25 foot length    Part number  01-
15725     $1.50

(note:  1995 prices)

Any questions or comments welcome.

Mark Hagen
Wichita Falls, TX
QQMC27A at Prodigy.com

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Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 17:11:41 -0700
From: Doug Otto <dotto at calweb.com>
Subject: Malt Mill Musings

Greetings

While preparing to brew this morning I let my mind wander and it seems =
to have paid off.  I was standing there with the rolling pin in my hand =
wondering why I hadn't had the roasted barley for my impending milk =
stout crushed at the homebrew store.  An idea popped into my head and =
off I went to scale the shelves in my garage in search of my prize.  =
Finally on the top shelf, I found it - my old Atlas pasta machine.  I =
blew the dust off of it and went to work.=20

The unit has two steel rollers designed to roll pasta dough smooth and =
flat.  It's made entirely of chromed steel and has a detachable motor.  =
First step was roughing up the rollers so they would grip the grain and =
full it through.  I dug out a small file and had accomplished my task in =
about 5 minutes.  Time for a test run.

I put a piece of foil on the counter to catch anything I crushed and =
fired it up.  I grabbed a handfull of roasted barley and dropped on the =
rollers.  One flick of the switch and Bingo! It was coming out the other =
side with the husk intact and the kernel split.  I was definitely on to =
something.

I removed the base plate, cut a whole in the top of an old bucket and =
bolted the roller assembly in place.  The only thing left was a hopper =
for the top of the unit - an old coffee can cut down the center and a =
slit in the middle and I'm now the proud owner of a roller mill.  Total =
time invested was about 45 minutes.

I took my half pound of roasted barley dumped it in the hopper, flicked =
the switch and 30 seconds later, it was all very nicely crushed.  In the =
immortal words of beer advocate Homer J. Simpson, "Woo Hoo."

May your lapses into lucidity go as well for you as this one did for me. =
 Now, back to my pint of alt.


Doug Otto
Sacramento, Ca


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Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 22:37:51 -0400
From: "Susan J. Rankert" <srankert at scnc.bas.k12.mi.us>
Subject: Travel to the UK

We have a trip to the UK coming up quickly, and it just dawned on me
that I should post here for advice.  Recommendations about any can't
miss real ales and public houses would be be appreciated.  We are going
to be in the areas of London, Cornwall, Bath, northern Wales, and
Oxford.

Please reply by E-mail.
Thanks in advance.

Jeff Rankert
srankert at scnc.bas.k12.mi.us
Fenton Mi

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Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 14:14:41 -0400
From: jgrubbs732 at juno.com (Jimmy R Grubbs)
Subject: Affordable Conical Fermenter

To the distinguished collective:
	I recently purchased  the "Affordable Conical Fermenter",
advertised in Zymurgy and probably other places, and attempted my first
batch therein. The batch was an extract ale, using 1 oz of hop pellets
for the boil, 1/2 oz pellets for flavor, 1 oz whole hops for aroma and a
teaspoon Irish moss. I cooled the wort to about 75 degrees with an
immersion cooler and then transferred  to the conical fermenter using a
'deep fryer' basket as a hop back and sieve type strainer in the funnel,
which removed a lot of solid stuff. I immediately pitched the yeast. 
After several hours, I had the expected fairly deep layer of trub in the
bottom of the cone, and was able to remove some of it by barely opening
the valve. I then opened the valve fully and got an additional small
amount, followed by thin wort, as if the wort had 'punched'  through the
layer of trub. Several more attempts with the valve only partially open
helped, but I was never able to remove a satisfactory amount of trub.
After the primary fermentation slowed I racked to a glass carboy and
reverted to my old method. The conical concept is obviously a good one,
but my first batch was not what I had hoped for, i.e. quick clean trub
removal and no racking.

My Question:  Has anyone had experience with the Affordable Conical
Fermenter, and if so do you have any advice on how to get the best
results, especially with regard to trub removal. Any information would be
greatly appreciated. Response by private e-mail or Digest posting will be
fine.

jrgrubbs at worldnet.att.net
Jim Grubbs 
Newnan, GA 
e-mail or Digest   

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Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 17:59:19 -0400
From: Niel Knudsen <Sly_Dog at compuserve.com>
Subject: Two Dogs, Lemon Brew

A few weeks ago, my wife went to our local liquor store to pick up a coup=
le
of sixes of our favorite commercial beer (Harpoon IPA).  While she was
there, she also picked up a six of Two Dogs Lemon Brew.
"Hey!" she says, "I like this!, Can you brew something like this?"  I tak=
e
a sip....Tastes like lemonade to me...
"Hmmm....Let me see what I can throw together" I answer.  So I did just
that, I threw something together and it came out damned good...It's not
beer, but hey!, it's quick and easy to make.  Here's the reciepe:

2lbs Lite DME
1lb Corn Sugar
3lbs Honey
6 cans Frozen Lemonade Concentrate

Boil 1.5 gallons of water. Add the DME and sugar. Boil for 10 minutes. Ad=
d
honey, boil for 1 minute.  Chill wort and dilute to 5 gallons. Pitch yeas=
t
(I used my crappy, emergency dry yeast, I'm sure it doesn't matter)
Ferment for 7 to 10 days in primary.
Add Frozen Lemonade Concentrate to secondary and rack from primary.  Let
sit another 5 days.
I kegged this batch and forced carbonated it.
My wife really  loves it, and I must admit,  it's really refreshing on a
hot summer day!  Try it and let me know what you think.

Niel Knudsen    Danvers MA
Sly_Dog at Compuserve.com
Member: North Shore Brewers, Beverly MA

 =


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Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 18:26:58 -0400
From: hardpipe at mail.harenet.com (hardpipe)
Subject: C02 regulators leaking?

i have a problem with a co2 system and was hoping someone could give me =
some insight. i have had 3 tanks leak down to nothing but cannot find a =
leak anywhere.i suspect the regulator.  are these things sucseptible to =
leaking and if so can they be rebuilt? having a hard time drinking my =
homebrew this way.


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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 08:53:27 +0200
From: "Terry Tegner" <tegbrew at aztek.co.za>
Subject: Bottle pasteurisation

The commercial breweries that I have toured out here (In South Africa &
Namibia) all use bottle pasteurisation of the finished product.  The
bottled of gassed beer is passed through showers of water at differing
temps.  The conveyer takes the beer through a warming shower and then
through a pasteurising heat shower and finaly a cooling shower, all moving
reasonably slowly.  They don,t seem to have many damaged bottles from this
process and I think that it is because nothing happens suddenly.  I
wouldn't personally drop a primed bottle of beer into boilling water for
fear of an explosion, besides, I think that pasteurising takes place at
about 72 C for 20 minutes or so.
Regards
Phail.



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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 04:04:06 -0500
From: michael wiley <mwiley at flash.net>
Subject: LUNAR RENDEZBREW IV

 ATTENTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 The 4th annual Lunar Rendezbrew Homebrewing Competition is quickly
approaching!!! Hosted by the Bay Area Mashtronauts in the NASA area of
Houston, this event is the celebration of space and brewing. Highlighted by
the "PAPER AIRPLANE WARS," Sunday, the 20th of July will be a huge blowout!
WE INCLUDE THIS YEAR A TASTING OF BEERS FROM LOCAL BREWPUBS, INTRODUCING
THE SUDS FROM CLEAR LAKE'S NEWEST BREWPUB, THE BAY BREWERY. The brewing
battles will be intense!! This year, we anticipate a large turnout, with
the inclusion of CIDERS and the expanded categories in the MEAD categories.
The entry deadline for our fest is Sat., July 12th, with awards and
festivities taking place on Sunday, July 20th. For information, entry
forms, and previous results, visit the Mashtronaut web site at
http://www.ghgcorp.com/rlivingston..... If you have any questions regarding
the competition or the festival, email me at: mwiley at flash.net
   WE LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING FROM YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 08:45:49 -0700
From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro)
Subject: Moving refrigerators, problem solved!

     Hi all,
     
     I just wanted to write a quick note to thank the DOZENS of people that 
     responded to my refrigerator question.  I have never received that 
     many responses to a question!
     
     A special thanks goes out to Mark Polnasek.  His comprehensive list of 
     possible causes and fixes provided the info I needed to fix the damn 
     thing!  Mark surmised that the most likely problem was that the 
     thermostat was shot, and he was correct.  By-passing the thermostat 
     brought the compressor on-line!  Hooray!
     
     Again, thanks to all, have fun!
     
     George De Piro  (Nyack, NY)

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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 00:14:05 +1000
From: Charlie Scandrett <merino at squirrel.com.au>
Subject: Bottle Pasteurization & Sterile Filtering

Ken Schwartz writes
>During the malta thread a few weeks ago, I had thought of Charlie Pappazian's
>assertion that holding the bottles at such-and-such temperature for
>such-and-such period would pasteurize the product (since there's lots of
>sugar and no alcohol, malta's shelf life presumably is short without such
>measures).  Don't know if this is valid but my thought was that if the
>product in the bottle (whatever it is) is carbonated, that heating would
>drive off the CO2 form solution and overpressurize the bottle.  This could
>result in flying bottlecaps or exploding bottles.  Any thoughts?

and Arnaud Viez wrote
>am I the only french homebrewer writing here?
Probably, there are more Tasmanians!
>I am studying the opportunity of the creation of a micro-brewery, brewing
>english-type brands.
Formidable, moi aussi! (means its hard work and I'm an Aussie)
>We plan to bottle our beer, without refermentation, and so without adding
>any yeast in the bottles. For the beer to have a comfortable shelf life, we
>don't want to use pasteurization (sorry for this awful word, I won't do it
>again),
Louis Pasteur's work in brewing was extremely important, his name is up
there with de Clerck, and pasteurization *is* an important process.
> and we have been told that the use of sterile filters is very safe
If you remember to pasteurize the filter apparatus!
>and will avoid any contamination or instability of the bottled beer.
>Is there anyone having information about that, or any opinion?

Bottle pastuerization is a common industrial brewing practice in which beer
is held in its package at 60C for about 20 minutes (it takes much longer to
get to 20C and cool again). According to Boyle-Charles' Law pV/T = constant
where T is measured in degrees absolute (K) where 0K is -273C.  So the
increase in CO2 pressure at 60C is only 1.22 times the pressure at 0C. So,
put the bottles in 20C water and raise temp to 60C over 10 minutes and the
beer wil reach 60C in about 20 minutes, hold 15-20 minutes, cool in 40C
water for 5-10 minutes, 20C water for5-10 minutes, then tap water. This will
accumulate about 8 PU. (Pasteurization Units-Yes, they metricated the poor
bugger!) The bottle will take it, but will your beer?

This has flavour disadvantages over "flash" pastuerization in which a stream
of beer is held at 72-75C for a few seconds in a heat exchanger (=10PU).
Luckily, with pastuerization, killing power doesn't equal cooking power(temp
X time), so this flavour effect is minimal. However flash pastuerisation
doesn't sterilise the bottle and cap and bottling machine, neither does
sterile filtering (at nominal filter opening = 0.2 um), which can also strip
some flavour. It is a toss up which is flavour preferable, filtering is
cheaper! (though sometimes a dirty word-CAMRA!)
The modern approach to the problem of package sterility is to purge air from
the bottle with steam for about 1.5 seconds just before sealing at the
filter head for counterpressure filling. This doesn't heat the bottle
significantly (even noticibly) and kills all microbes and removes O2. This
is applied to caps as well. This is a cheap modification to old
counterpressure bottling equipment for lower O2 levels in the
bottle.(cheaper than double pre-evacuation)
In a cool climate, I would just "polish filter" at 5um and keep the beer
cool, if you watch your sanitation and keep the pH down, bacteria take years
to get a hold. Belgian commercial breweries have little problem with bottle
conditioned beer coming all the way to Australia (remember India Pale Ale
went to India in a sailboat in wooden kegs). In fact these beers arrive in
much better shape here in Australia than sterile beers because yeast is a
powerful metabolic reducer and fair oxygen scavenger. If this can be done,
why not a small residue of invisible yeast in a non-bottle conditioned beer?
("non-conditioned" because no significant fermentation takes place). Sierra
Nevada Brewing do this a bit more to create a slight layer of yeast that
doesn't cause haze problems, but gives the impression of a natural, bottle
conditioned beer, and preserves it. In Australia, Coopers put bottle
conditioned beer on the back of a truck and send it across 2000k of desert
to Darwin! Probably pasteurized on the way? 

A microbrewer can control the treatment of their beer by self-distributing.
If the market is local, the costs are about the same as using a commercial
distributor with some marketing advantages. Redhook Brewing does this, using
refrigerated trucks, but it is illegal in some US states to self distribute,
France?

My advice Arnaud?
1/ Filter to 5um after cold conditioning ales for a week (or use finings).
Some yeast will remain.
2/ Steam sterilise bottles and caps for 1.5 seconds.
3/ Buy a couple of old refrigerated milk delivery trucks and self
distribute. Get to know your retailers and stress that this is a "live"
fresh beer, something special to be treated with care.(insert appropriate
French ambience here)
4/ Shelf life should be several months if all other stability processes are
carried out. (FAN/polyphenol/lipid/pH control, & O2 exclusion from mash,
whirlpool and packaging)(BTW steam blanketing works for O2 exclusion in mash
and whirlpool prosesses too)

Charlie (Brisbane, Australia)
PS When it comes to building cheap micros out of a metal scrapyard with
countryboy welding skills and a fistfull of cash, I can give a *lot* of
offline advice!


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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 97 10:47:00 est
From: paa3983 at dpsc.dla.mil (Mike Spinelli)
Subject: Galley pumps as beer engines?

HBDers,
Since Roy R. Rimmele is interetsed in home beer engines, I'll add some new info.
I just heard.

My local HB store, informs me that galley pumps used in motorboats are perfect
to adapt as a beer engine.  I guess they have the same design of pulling liquid
up from below.  I would guess it would be a cheaper alternative than the
commercial beer engines.  

Mike Spinelli
Cherry Hill NJ


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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 08:05:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Domenick Venezia <venezia at zgi.com>
Subject: batch sparge


This was originally posted by Ron Price in HBD #1440, 03 June 1994.  I've
also reposted this before, but with the recent batch sparge thread it
seems appropriate to post it again.  Thanks Ron, how are you doing? 

Domenick Venezia
Computer Resources
ZymoGenetics, Inc.
Seattle, WA
venezia at zgi.com

- ------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Jun 1994 09:27:24 -0500
From: rprice at cbmse.nrl.navy.mil
Subject:  Mashout-

In Domenick Venezia's post on Mashout he mentioned a three step sparge
process that I use.  A few years back I visited a couple of small
breweries and several of the highland Scotch distilleries.  In each they
produced their beer (distillers just forget the hops), in a large lauter
tun which had folding arms to stir the mash and a couple of very large
water heaters on an upper level (all looked very similar so I assumed were
produced by the same outfit).  Following the mash schedule they would run
in 170F water for the first sparge run, then pump this off through a
chiller to the fermentation tanks, the second sparge was at a slightly
higher temperature of 180F, and the gravity was dropping rapidly (like
about 1.010 as I remember), then they did a very rapid final sparge at
about 190 to get every last bit of sugar out of the mash.  This was about
1.005 or so and was retained by pumping up to the holding tank, and while
the next batch was mashed the water in the bulk tank cooled to about 170F
where the process started again. 

I adopted the same three step system for my homebrewing setup, and I mash
out by adding a small amount of simmering water to the mash to raise the
temperature to 170F or so, then blend more of the simmering water with
cold to make a 180F batch, which I sparge through, followed by another
shot of the simmering water. 

I use a very short mash schedule (50-60 min.), and recirculate the first
gallon or so of mash water, until the mash sets and the wort runs clear.
Then I let the water level reach the grain bed, and begin adding the 180F
water at that point.  When the flow reduces and the bed begins to settle I
add the 190F water and often I find that the gravity of the run off will
take a jump.  Tannins and silicates so far haven't been a problem with
this technique, and I get excellent extraction rates. 

I am not sure if it is a Scottish thing to get every last gram of sugar
from the mash, I was told that it aided in extracting all of the sugars
from the mash and increasing the final gravity without over dillution of
the wort.  The owner and distiller at Glengoyne used this method and spent
a long time covering his methods with me, he convinced me, and I have
stuck with it.  The microbrewery I visited was run by a couple of former
distillery employees who may simply have used the same equipment and
techniques by habit.  But who is to argue with good booze and beer.  As a
final note, on that same trip at a brewery somewhere in the UK one bit of
advice I remembered was that the pH and mash temps were critical to
maintaining the malt character and mouth feel of the finished beer. Seems
that they used higher temps (like about 155-158F) for short periods of
time, at a pH of about 5.8.  This they explained was to enhance the
activity of the enzymes good at eating smaller sugars while leaving the
longer chain sugars for your beer. 




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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 12:53:01 -0400
From: Chris Cooper <ccooper at a2607cc.msr.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Juggling

Hi all!

You ask how many home brewers are jugglers?  Any body how can manage to
mash, sparge, brew, rack last batch to secondary, bottle batch before that,
clean kegs, sanitize bottles, cap and label, scrub dirty carboys and return
the wifes kitchen to an acceptable post-brew level of cleanliness in one day
is obviously a juggler!!!

As a side note I also do attempt to juggle while helping my wife mind her
store at the Michigan Reniasance Festival (my juggling is definitely not
a headline act for the fair, and in fact barely tolerated by the official
entertainment director, but then I do have a unique claim in that I  am the
only juggler/fool at the fair that can consistently juggle and drop all three
balls at the same time !)



Chris Cooper , Commerce Michigan    --> Pine Haven Brewery <--
Chris_Cooper at hp.com                 --> aka. Deb's Kitchen <--
 


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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 13:04:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: MCer1235 at aol.com
Subject: Dopplebocks

Hi!!

Has anyone out there in the collective made a partial-mash/extract
dopplebock? 

Paulaner Salvator is the only beer that my wife has shown any interest in me
replicating, she should have just asked for Rodenback Grand Cru. :)

Since I don't have a temperature controled refrigerator, what would happen if
I ferment it with an Ale yeast and then "lager" in the basement, at around
50F, for some extended time?  What yeast would I use (Alt yeast? Scot
yeast?)?

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Rene'


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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 10:19:19 -0700
From: smurman at best.com
Subject: lacto follow-up


Just wanted to follow-up on the lacto infestation problems I was 
worried about.  A few people wrote to me stating that they had
done lacto ferments many times and they had not experienced 
problems removing the lacto cultures from their equipment using
iodophor or bleach.  A couple of people noted that they wouldn't
trust this to be the case with plastic or rubber though, and
one person mentioned that he had experienced trouble with the
pediococcus (sp?) bacteria being a resilient beastie.  I think
what initially caused my concern was some second-hand information
I was given, and also a note in a recent article in Zymurgy about
weisse beers where they mentioned it was desirable to maintain
a second fermentation set-up for lacto ferments.  As usual, it's
best to be informed and make your own decisions, but I trust the
folks here on the HBD more than I do Zymurgy.  Then again, I'm
still going to sour mash rather than try to initiate a mixed
lacto-yeast fermentation.

SM

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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 09:33:57 -0700
From: Sharon/Dan Ritter <ritter at camasnet.com>
Subject: re: shipping beer

I received the following response to my inquiry with AHA regarding the beer
shipping issue:



>Dan,

>For the past couple of years we have tried to get UPS to adopt a less
>restrictive policy when it comes to homebrew for competitions, but so
>far no luck. The problem lies with the fact that some states still don't
>statutorily recognize homebrewing as a legal activity.

>We are working on that front and at the same time have contacted other
>shippers besides UPS to see if they would be more willing to work with
>us. When you look at 4,000 entries in the NHC, plus all of the Club
>Only's, plus all of the other sanctioned competitions, any shipper who
>became the "official shipper" for AHA competitons could get a sizeable
>chunk of business. But so far, no takers. We'll keep you informed of any
>progress.

>Until then, the best rule is to pack well and not disclose what's in the
>box.

>Thanks,

>Jim

- --
Jim Parker
Director
American Homebrewers Association  (303) 447-0816 x 122   (voice)
736 Pearl Street                  (303) 447-2825         (fax)
PO Box 1679                       jim at aob.org            (e-mail)
Boulder, CO  80306-1679           info at aob.org           (aob info)
U.S.A.                            http://beertown.org    (web)

Dan Ritter <ritter at bitterroot.net>
Ritter's MAMMOTH Brewery - Hamilton, Montana



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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 97 14:08:55 est
From: paa3983 at dpsc.dla.mil (Mike Spinelli)
Subject: Bavarian Weizen and temp. rests

HBDers,
I seem to recall a few months back some controversy over the 122F temp. rest vs.
the 135F rest.  Something about the 122F rest ruining the head or something?

Anyway, if I'm making a weizen with the standard 60/40 split of readily availabl
e U.S. pale and Weyermann german wheat malt,  what would be the LEAST
troublesome mash schedule to use, but still get a decent product?  I believe the
wheat needs some sort of protein rest, but am confused as to what's optimal.  I
don't wanna decoct and I only wanna do the temp. rests that are NEEDED for this
type of malt.

Are all these 40/50/60/etc./etc. programs overkill when using the  highly modifi
ed malts we can all get?

Mike Spinelli
Cherry Hill NJ 


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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 11:33:07 -0700
From: Scott Murman <smurman at best.com>
Subject: Re: Decoction Theories Put To Test 


Rob Kienle discussed an alternative method of decoction mashing.  I
agree with Rob about decoctions as a way to manage temp. rests, but I
don't think our technology gives us much of an advantage.  As
homebrewers, our main advantage comes because we're not mashing such
large volumes and masses of grist.  A lot of the traditional methods
had to overcome the logistics of dealing with large volumes of
thermally challenged grain and water.

Anyway, I just wanted to comment that there is another way of playing
this decoction game if you're not bound to tradition.  The idea is to
perform a single decoction, but to do it as a mini-mash which you
start before your main mash.  This would pseudo-technically be called
an un-decoction I suppose.  Start with say 1/2 or 2/3 of your grain
bill and create a very thick mash, about 0.5 qt/lb.  Bring this
through your protein rests and sacc. rests, but *do not* start the
rest of your mash yet.  Before you're ready to boil your decoction,
dough in the rest of your mash to whatever temperature you like, and
use a very thin mash (the water from you mini un-decoction is mostly
going to get boiled off so you'll be adding pure grain back to the
mash tun).  Then you boil your un-decoction for however long you want
to park you "main mash" at whatever temperature you chose.
Afterwards, add the un-decoction to the "main mash" to hit your next
temp. rest, and proceed from there.

This method has two main advantages.  First, you have more control
over how much grain you are boiling, and hence have better control
over how much of a temperature increase you'll get when adding it to
the main mash.  The second benefit is that your main mash doesn't have
to sit at a single temperature for an extreme amount of time.  These
seem to be the two main complaints about decoction mashing.  The other
complaint is that decoctions take a long time.  Just think about those
big, buxom, blonde German women sweating over a wooden paddle,
stirring the hot mash in days of yore.  That might help pass the time.
Those who don't find sweaty buxom women attractive will have to find
their own motivation.  Sorry.

SM

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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 14:54:48 -0400
From: Kit Anderson <kitridge at bigfoot.com>
Subject: Wits for judges

Jim Busch wrote;

>Well there you have it!  Kit wants to WIN RIBBONS, ;-)  Sheesh and I 
>just want to be able to replicate Celis or Hoegaarden.  Silly me.

I have lost my quest for ribbons after the Sam Adams WHC last year when two
unranked judges gave a 21 to a wit Greg Noonan scored 41 a few weeks
earlier. Now I go for the 'poundability' factor.

I swear my wit is closer to Celis when spices are added to secondary.

- ---
Kit Anderson	
Bath, Maine	   <kitridge at bigfoot.com>		

I suppose that it's theoretically possible for a Yankee to
make decent barbecue. But it sure ain't a pretty thought!
                                        -Smokey Pitts


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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 15:08:15 -0500
From: Cory Wright <cwright at midcom.anza.com>
Subject: Re: Batch vs Fly

Ken Schwartz (KennyEddy at aol.com) writes:
>
Just where on God's Green Earth did the term "fly sparging" come from? 
 I've
had flies visit my brewery before, but I try like hell to keep them out of
the sparge...
>

No, no, no. "Fly sparging" is not in reference to insects. It's a '70s 
throwback, meaning to sparge while wearing bell-bottomed polyester pants, 
platform shoes, and at least three large gold medallions. This is related 
to "Superfly sparging", which refers to sparging while wearing a purple and 
yellow fur-lined cape and matching polyester bell-bottomed jumpsuit, 7" 
platform boots, minimum of five gaudy oversized gold rings, three foot 
(diameter) afro, and the aforementioned gold meddallions. This is a very 
rare condition nowadays, and to be avoided more than even brewing in plaid. 


Cheers,

Cory Wright
cwright at midcom-inc.com


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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 15:07:24 -0700
From: Randy Erickson <randye at mid.org>
Subject: Brewsletter Publishing

Thanks to everyone who responded to my brewsletter question.  My
GroupWise took a major dump today (is that redundant?), so I haven't
been able to thank you all personally yet.

The overwhelming consensus was to keep it simple and use the word
processor (WordPerfect and MSWord were specifically mentioned as more
than adequate).  After all, it isn't exactly, well, brewing science.

Adam Fisher (can't decipher that e-mail address) mentioned that MS
Publisher was very powerful, easy to use, and cheap;  actually it comes
free with certain HP printers, including the one I bought recently.  The
catch?  Why Windows 95 of course.  Not me, not yet, anyway.

Thanks again all, and now I return you to your regularly scheduled
description of the 'methode champagnoise'.

Cheers -- Randy in Modesto

"We will not support Windows 95 until sometime in '98" -- MID MIS
Department.

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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 20:25:39 -5
From: "Mike Kidulich" <mjkid at ix12.ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Motorizing MaltMill / AHA Conference

Greetings

I am ending a long lurk mode with this query for all the mechanical 
types out there. I own a Schmidling MaltMill, which I would like to 
motorize. Towards this end, I have acquired a Dayton model 4Z613 
motor. The specifications are as follows:

1/25 input motor hp
F/L torque: 12 in/lbs
full load rpm: 154

The motor requires an external capacitor, which I am tracking down 
now. 

Does this motor have the guts to power a MM? I am planning a belt 
drive system, to allow for slippage in the event of a jam. I would 
like to hear from anyone with experience in this area.

Also, I will be attending the AHA Conference in July, and look 
forward to putting some faces with the names I see here all the time.

See you in July!



Mike Kidulich
President
Upstate New York Homebrewers Association
mjkid at ix.netcom.com

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---