HOMEBREW Digest #2456 Mon 07 July 1997

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
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  Which Gott ("Alan McKay")
  On Botulism ("Alan McKay")
  Hennings Hop beer, Korz on alcohol (Randy Ricchi)
  IBU's of commercial brews (Stephen Hudson)
  Jap. Beetles and Hop Plants-insecticides (Stephen Neate)
  Chocolate stouts (Dr James Clark)
  re: "Jenny Cream Ale" / What IS cream ale? (Tom Lombardo)
  Bell's Beers (nkanous)
  grain dust explosions (kathy)
  Iodophor Staining (Bill Marks)
  Igloo Cooler mash tun (Dave Thomson)
  black beers (bryangros)
  electronic fermentation monitoring (Heiner Lieth)
  Re: An oxidation q uestion (Steve Alexander)
  Japanese Beetles ("Lee Carpenter")
  Cleaning my dirty chiller (John Bell)
  Moved another freezer (nkanous)
  Alcoholic lemonade recipes (Brad McMahon)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 17:33:27 -0500 From: "Alan McKay" <Alan.McKay.amckay at nt.com> Subject: Which Gott Kenneth Lee asks which Gott to buy. Kenneth, myself and many others brew excellent 5 gallon batches in the 5 gallon Gott. You can do just about anything except really high gravity mashes. I've squeezed about 12 lbs of grain in there, and my friend has come close to 13lbs, but that is really pushing it. Unless you forsee using more than that, you'll be fine with the 5 gallon. cheers, -Alan Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 17:38:51 -0500 From: "Alan McKay" <Alan.McKay.amckay at nt.com> Subject: On Botulism Having been and avid home-canner before becoming an avid homebrewer, I can assure you that botulism is indeed a serious risk when canning wort. Please see my page http://www.magma.ca/~bodnsatz/brew/tips/yeast/pressure-can.html for complete details. In short, if your wort is above pH 4.3 (which it is unless it's heavily hopped), then Botulism spores will survive even boiling. Only under pressure can you reach the temperature required to kill the spores (235F or so). Alternately, a lower pH (high acid) will deactivate the spores. cheers, -Alan Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 22:40:18 -0400 From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at ccisd.k12.mi.us> Subject: Hennings Hop beer, Korz on alcohol On Jason Hennings Hoppy beer (July 3 posting): I have a feeling that by getting all your IBU's in the last 20 minutes of the boil, the "perceived" bitterness is going to be much higher than the IBU's would suggest, due to an overpowering hop flavor. Please keep us posted as to the taste profile after, say, one week and then maybe four weeks. - ------------------------------------------------------------- In response to Massimo Faraggi's input on hop balance, Al Korzona said: "Ahh, but alcohol is bitter and in high-alcohol beers some of the bitterness comes from hops and some from the alcohol... doesn't it?" Actually, I believe alcohol contributes sweetness, not bitterness, to beer. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 13:33:49 +1100 From: Stephen Hudson <s.hudson at bom.gov.au> Subject: IBU's of commercial brews Hi all, A couple of years ago I found a listing of IBU's for commercial brews on the 'net. It wasn't just a range for different AHA styles, (I have that already) but a listing for various commercial brews. I trying to see if my taste buds can match the IBU of a commercial brew with some of my efforts to see how I'm going with hop utilisation/bitterness. Can anyone point me in the right direction to find this listing again please??? Cheers, Stephen s.hudson at bom.gov.au Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 14:34:58 +0900 From: Stephen Neate <Stephen.Neate at adl.soils.csiro.au> Subject: Jap. Beetles and Hop Plants-insecticides I would like to make some comments about the insecticides listed by Art McGregor from his search of the web > Oct 1993 INSECT CONTROL IN MINOR VEGETABLE CROPS MINO-023 > Dr. Freddie A. Johnson, Extension Entomologist > Hops > Cythion (malathion) > *Diazinon (diazinon) > Dipel (B.t.) > Javelin (B.t.) > Kelthane (dicofol) > Omite (propargite) > *Telone II (1,3-dichloropropene) > *Telone C-17 (1,3-dichloropropene + chloropicrin) > Vapam (metam-sodium) 1) Malathion controls many insects and would be the best chemical listed for beetle control. 2) B.t. is Bacillus thuringiensis, a bacterium which produces a toxin that is deadly to insects, and could be considered an 'organic' solution. 3) Diclofol and propargite are both miticides and would kill your mites. 4) The last three, Telone II, C-17 and metham-sodium are fumigants and should be handled VERY carefully if at all by home gardeners. I do not think they have any place in the growing crop, just as a pre-plant treatment. There are probably many other alternatives. The registration system for agrochemicals in any crop involves a chemical company deciding that there is money to be made, then extensive field testing for efficacy and potential deleterious effects. However, the above named chemicals are tested and crop safe and experimentation with other insecticides may lead to poor results or less likely, crop damage. Always check with-holding periods for any chemicals used, use gloves and overclothes and ideally a face mask. Spray on a still day and wash up afterwards. Chemicals can be absorbed through the skin and by inhalation as well as ingestion. Stephen Neate Adelaide, Australia Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 09:41:10 GMT From: Dr James Clark <jclark at clinmed.gla.ac.uk> Subject: Chocolate stouts I have been trying to copy the chocolate stout style of beer, especially Young's double chocolate stout. I have used varying ratio's of pale malt to chocolate malt with little success in recreating the flavour of the Youngs beer. The only thing I have not tried is adding cocoa or chocolate extract to the boil. Has anyone any suggestions or recipes? Thanks James Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 06:07:23 -0500 (CDT) From: Tom Lombardo <favt3tl at rvcux1.RVC.CC.IL.US> Subject: re: "Jenny Cream Ale" / What IS cream ale? Charlie asks about Jenny Cream Ale. Charlie, I think you're referring to Genesee (Genny) Cream Ale, brewed in Rochester NY (on the banks of the lovely Genesee river). My Dad used to drink it, and in my teen years I smuggled a few six's out of Dad's stock ;-) I don't think you'll find it outside of the upstate NY area. Genny is to upstate NY as Old Style is to Chicago as Iron City is to Pittsburgh. - --------------------------------------------------------------- Now, on to a question: What makes cream ale cream ale? I heard somewhere (can't remember where) that you use both ale and lager yeast. This could be the "special 2 step fermentation" you referred to. How is it done? Anyone? Tom ********************************************************************** * When freedom is outlawed, only outlaws will be free. - Tom Robbins * * __________________ * * |*****_____________| * * |*****_____________| * * |*****_____________| (Happy 4th!) * * | _____________| * * | _____________| * * |__________________| * * * * Tom Lombardo (favt3tl at rvcux1.rvc.cc.il.us) * ********************************************************************** Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 09:53:13 -0400 (EDT) From: nkanous at tir.com (nkanous) Subject: Bell's Beers Greetings to the collective. I've been following the Bell's thread. I've never had and troubles getting details from the guys at the brewery. However, on the other hand, I don't find it surprising that difficulties were encountered occurred. Guess I just expect things a bit quirky at Bell's sometimes. I thought that I would respond to the best of my abilities regarding recipie formulation. Bells currently (got mine two months ago) has a pamphlet available behind the bar that gives some basic information about their beers. Amber ale is only described as using crystal, munich, and pale malts (pale is most likely Breiss 2-row). Original gravity 1.055, but no hop information. Bell's Pale Ale is made entirely of 2-row and biscuit malt. My guess is about 1/2 pound of biscuit per 5 gallons (only a guess, haven't replicated it yet). I personally haven't noticed any grapefruit flavors in the pale ale, but I may not have looked that closely. Tasted a brew in Madison WI last year that screamed grapefruit. Anyhow, back to Bell's Pale Ale. After numerous pints on repeated occasions, I have come to believe that the Pale Ale is entirely hopped with Cluster hops. I haven't been able to locate any whole cone cluster hops to experiment with. It is also brewed to an O.G. of 1.050. Hope this helps. Sorry I forgot any posters names. nathan in Frankenmuth, MI Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 08:27:52 -0500 From: kathy <kbooth at scnc.waverly.k12.mi.us> Subject: grain dust explosions The recent PBS Nova program "KABOOM' demonstrated a flour explosion. The demonstrator placed an ordinary candle upright on the ground and placed a section of maybe 4" pipe over it open at both ends. Standing carefully to the side of the 4' length of pipe, he took an ordinary paper with flour on it and tapped it so maybe 1/2 c flour fell slowly into the open pipe. Kaboom. This was outside of course and I wouldn't use fragile pipe. Indeed, when mills and elevators get blown apart, it is often a small initial explosion which blows dust into the air thru out the structure, which is then ignites secondary explosions. Cheers, Jim Booth, formally, a loss prevention engineer in the grain handling and processing industry. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 10:06:29 -0400 From: Bill Marks <bill_marks at ids.net> Subject: Iodophor Staining I, like everybody else who has ever used the stuff, have had my plastic tubing stained by iodophor. Since the staining is from the iodine content it would seem that the stained hoses would be less prone to growing critters due to the now imbeded antiseptic qualities of the iodine. True? I don't suggest that maintaining strict santization of the tubing isn't necessary, I am just trying to convince my self no to throw out tubing that has become stained. Sowhatdayathink? Bill Marks Portsmouth, RI Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 10:38:22 -0400 From: Dave Thomson <dlt at ici.net> Subject: Igloo Cooler mash tun Thank You all for your great advice. I ended up buying a Phils Phase bottom and attaching it to a 1/2 ball valve. A couple people mentioned that the bottom tends to float up in the process. Have others experienced this and how do you solve this problem?? Keep brewing! Dave Thomson I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontle Lobotomy! Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 09:27:17 -0700 From: bryangros at juno.com Subject: black beers From: Brad McMahon <brad at sa.apana.org.au> > >From: "Michael R. Frank" <mfrank at ag.Arizona.EDU> >>1) Just what is a black beer anyway? I've been seeing and tasting an >>increasing number of these lately, and whatever they are, I generally >>like them. But when I look somewhere like the AHA style guidelines (or >>HBD archives, Cat's Meow, etc) there is little or no information. There >>are obviously differences between something like Xingu and Portland's >>Haystack Black, but are these just american (or new-world) porters? > >Not knowing what those commercial brands are, you have a couple >of choices. ... Marketing people must have decided that Red Beer is no longer working, so they came up with a new term with no meaning. I just had a bottle of Widmer Black Beer here in N. California. The fine print on the bottle says somthing like a "smooth porter", but the marketing BS on the six-pack holder talks about a night in Dusseldorf tossing back Zum Urige (sp?). so what does it taste like? It was a pretty decent altbier. Fairly dark for an alt, but a nice maltiness with a smooth bitter finish. Nothing like a porter. - Bryan Gros BryanGros at juno.com Berkeley, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 13:41:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Heiner Lieth <lieth at telis.org> Subject: electronic fermentation monitoring A few days ago I set up a data logger and ran a couple of temperature sensors into the insulated box where I have my fermenter. I can now monitor various temperatures without opening the box and letting all the cold air out. Now the only thing I have to open the box for is to check on the progress of the fermentation. Have any of you found a way to instrument a fermenter to determine if it is still producing CO2 (bubbling)? ...Or, better yet, is there a way to electronically monitor the specific gravity? Heiner Lieth. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 21:33:25 +0000 From: Steve Alexander <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: An oxidation q uestion Brian Pickerill asks ... >Why is it that distilled spirits do not have an oxidation problem? >... What about wine? >... Isn't it the alcohol that is oxidized in stale beer? First off I'd suggest George Fix's "Principles of Brewing Science" as a great starting point to review oxidation and oxidized products in beer. Alcohols and their oxidation- Ethanol oxidizes into acetaldehyde (which smells like green apples), and then into acetic acid (vinegar). There is a substantial energetic barrier to initiating these reactions so they don't really happen much outside of infecting microbes like some yeast and aceto-bacteria. Some of the higher alcohols (fusel oils) do oxidize and produce raunchy tasting aldehydes like 2-nonenol. Melanoidins help this to occur, but with any luck and care fusel oil concentrations are low and other oxidizables are more prevalent. Beer - Fix suggest the following "major oxidation reactions" in beer 1/ melanoidin mediated oxidation of fusel alcohols - v.bad 2/ oxidation of iso-alpha-acids (from hops) 3/ oxidaton of fatty acids (from trub & yeast) - v.bad 4/ oxidation of phenols 5/ strecker reactions - classic staling from malt amino acids 6/ aldol condensation - makes big nasties from small alhedydes Wine - Wine is *extremely* oxidizeable. It's subject to acetic bacterial oxidation into vinegar. Red wines are filled to the brim with oxidizable phenolics and some 'noble' whites such as german reislings have consideable phenolic content too. Because wine is never boiled or pastuerized the phenol-oxidase enzymes from grapes remain active in wine. They are ready to start oxidizing the phenols into tannins as soon as the wine is exposed to air. Once wine is sealed in a bottle no additional oxygen is admitted until it is opened. The phenolics continue to oxidize slowly by reducing other compounds and the oxidized phenols polymerize. Progressively polymerized phenols become bitter, then astringent, then become so big that they drop out of solution. At this point red wines are mature. So aged red wines over time can become less bitter and astringent while keeping flavor compounds fresh by reduction. Further bottle aging beyond this point can lead to stale brown wines. See Michael Broadbent's booklet 'Wine Tasting' for some nice comparative color pictures of aging red wines. If you cut open an apple the browning that quickly occurs is due to oxidation of simple phenolics in the presence of air and phenol oxidase - you all know the negative impact this has on fruit flavor. A bottle of wine, once opened, loses volatile aroma compounds quickly and oxidation of phenols and stecker degradation of amino acids is swift. A 24 hour store of a half filled bottle at room temperature is usually fatal to flavor. BTW toppng off a partly filled wine bottle with CO2 does a better job of preservation than the vacu-vin that AlK mentioned. Whiskey/Brandy - Without melanoidins the higher alcohols don't readily oxidize. Most of the other oxidizable substances never make it through a still. The exception to this is that pot distilled fruit wines (cognac, calvados, brandies, eau de vies) may contain some small amount of oxidizeables and may stale over long time periods. Pot stills allow a much greater range of substances thru than column continuous stills. Scotch whiskys and irish whiskys are also (double or triple) pot distilled, but these don't seem to suffer from oxidation (they can lose aroma volatiles when exposed to air tho'). Anything labelled whisky or whiskey has been aged in oak barrels for 4 to 30 (or more) years - usually at around 110 proof (cask strength) and these barrels are not air tight. Alcohol and volatiles are slowly lost and oxygen certainly permeates in. Scotch and american whiskeys contain considerable phenolics from peat smoke, charcoal, oak barrels, rye (some rye phenolics can pass thru a continuous still) or a combination of the above - but these are apparently not significantly subject to oxidation from modest exposure to air at room temperature. A half filled bottle of scotch will keep well for years. Grain alcohol like vodka has virtually nothing except ethanol to oxidize. [I'm no expert, but I suspect that the notion of 'premium vodka' borders on consumer fraud.] Gin may contain some oxizable oils from the juniper berries - I'm not sure. Steve Alexander Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 18:22:53 -0400 From: "Lee Carpenter" <leec at redrose.net> Subject: Japanese Beetles Thanks to all for the varied and informative replies to my beetle question. I especially liked Keith Royster's idea of pureeing the bastards in a blender with water and then spraying them on the plants as a repellent! Think about it, if you saw a place littered with smelly, pureed humans, would you hang around? I'm giving it a try. I have a few thousand in my bag traps right now. Thanks Again. Lee C. Carpenter "You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline--it helps if you have some kind of football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer." -- Frank Zappa Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 1997 14:19:46 -0700 From: John Bell <jbell at isomedia.com> Subject: Cleaning my dirty chiller A couple of batches ago I didn't clean out my chiller right away. It sat in the garage for about a week before I could get to it. Before my last batch I ran near-boiling beer line cleaner through it, let it sit about a half hour, rinsed liberally with boiling water, then sanitized with iodophor. Last time I tasted the current brew, it tasted like it was infected. Short of getting a new one, does anyone have a sure-fire way to clean out a stubborn chiller? Any help would be much appreciated, and I swear I'll never let it happen again. John Bell Seattle, WA jbell at isomedia.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 17:57:30 -0400 (EDT) From: nkanous at tir.com (nkanous) Subject: Moved another freezer George DiPiro successfully conquered his refrigerator woes here recently. I am suffering a similar fate. I recently moved a chest freezer and now it won't get cold. I would appreciate some private help. TIA. Nathan in Frankenmuth MI Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 13:00:46 +1100 From: Brad McMahon <brad at sa.apana.org.au> Subject: Alcoholic lemonade recipes OK, by popular request here are two recipes that emulate Two Dogs lemonade. Enjoy. Three Dogs Alcoholic Lemonade thanks to Nirvana Farm, Longwood Rd, Heathfield, South Australia. And to the Hills Homebrew Centre, 2/312 Mt Barker Road, Aldgate SA. Ingredients 1kg rough lemons 2kg Meyer lemons 2kg Dextrose 1 sachet ale dry yeast Method. 1. Grate the zest(rind) off of a few of the lemons. Do not grate the white pith. 2. Chop up all the lemons into chunks. 3. Cover the lemons and zest with dextrose and a few litres of water. 4. Bring to the boil and simmer for 10 minutes. 5. Dilute out to 20 litres in your fermenter, and pitch yeast at below 30C 6. Ferment out at 20-25C for 7-10 days or until fermentation is complete. 7. Bottle and prime as for beer. Wait 14 days for carbonation and enjoy. Note: Meyer lemons are sweeter lemons. Use them if available but 3kg of whatever lemons you can find will work just as nicely. Don't worry, relax and enjoy a Three Dogs! _______________________ My Dogs Plus Lemonade Brew Ingredients 10 Lemons 2kg Dextrose My Brew Lemonade Kit Method. 1. Prepare your brewing equipment as you do for beer. 2. Grate the zest(rind) from four of the lemons (not the pith). 3. Squeeze the juice from these lemons and the other six lemons and place in a bowl with the rind. 4. Pour 2 litres of boiling water into the fermenter and add the juice/rind mixture. Stir well. 5. Add the dextrose and the contents of the My Brew Lemonade kit, and top up the fermenter to the 22 litre mark while stirring. 6. Pitch yeast when temperature reaches 28C or less, stir and fit airlock. 7. Ferment for 10-14 days or until gravity reaches 1003 or less. 8. Prime bottles as for beer and allow to carbonate for 14 days. Thanks to Andrew Schultz of "The Hills Homebrew Centre" 2/312 Mount Barker Road Aldgate SA 5154 Australia. Ph. +61-8-8370-1000 - -- Brad McMahon "I don't hate anyone, at least ph. 0411 501 518 not for more than 48 minutes, brad at sa.apana.org.au barring overtime." C. Barkley Email me for PGP public key. Return to table of contents
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