HOMEBREW Digest #2464 Thu 17 July 1997

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  RE: Can I save this batch??? (John_E_Schnupp)
  Santa Fe ("S J")
  hop drying (John Lifer Jr)
  Carbonation problem (Red Wheeler)
  Malta ("Lorena Barquin Sanchez")
  Mash Calculator Formulas (Pat Anderson)
  Oregon Brewers Festival (George De Piro)
  Madison, WI brewpubs (Brian Amick)
  Concentrated Boils (Eewww gross) -- No-Sparge, Batch-Sparge, Etc. (KennyEddy)
  Brews Traveler (korz)
  Custom Propane Element ("Michael Wood")
  Re: St. Louis Brewpubs and bars (silva)
  Re: Poor judging ("Mark S. Johnston")
  False Bottoms ("August R Buerkle")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 00:46:06 -0700 From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com Subject: RE: Can I save this batch??? >The beer was first brewed probably 2 months ago. I would have to >check my records. Anyway, has anyone else out there had a similar >circumstance and saved their batch. I am pretty embarrassed about >this because I usually bottle within 2 weeks of the beer being in the >secondary. I guess the only bright spot is that my yard looks great... I would suspect that this is an infection of some sort. In that case it wouldn't matter when you bottle. If the beer is infected it's infected. The only difference is you might not see as well in brown bottles. If it dosen't taste or smell undrinkable I'd bottle it. John Schnupp, N3CNL Colchester, VT '95 XLH 1200 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 03:43:40 PDT From: "S J" <brewthat at hotmail.com> Subject: Santa Fe Will be going to Santa Fe in October and would like info on BrewPub, MicroBrew and any homebrew shops in the area. Email any info or post here. Thanks SRJ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 21:05:20 -0500 From: John Lifer Jr <jliferjr at mail.misnet.com> Subject: hop drying Mark Johnston had a question on hop drying. I purchased a home dehydrator and have used it successfully for a couple of years. My unit is quite cheap and has no provisions for adjusting the temp. I just spread the hops out and dry them for about an hour or so. Just watch them for overdrying. I then take them and stuff into freezer bags and freeze. Sure I could use a barrier bag but I don't have any idea what alpha value I hav anyway. Just my opinion. John in Mississippi Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 07:16:48 -0400 From: Red Wheeler <fwheeler at mciunix.mciu.k12.pa.us> Subject: Carbonation problem Recently, I had a problem with the carbonation of a batch of beer that maybe someone has experienced or can suggest what went wrong and how to prevent it. Most of the bottles of a batch of ESB were normal but about every fifth bottle was almost uncarbonated. When opened there was no sound of escaping gas and very few bubbles when poured. The beer tasted okay, I had to drink each one just to be certain, but the bittering may have covered something. Normally I put the priming sugar in the bottling bucket first then rack the beer onto it without stirring. This time after adding the beer I stirred it. That was the only major change made in technique. Since then I went back to my original technique and the next batch, a brown ale, is carbonated as it should be. Thanks for any help you can give. Red in Blue Bell, PA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:52:58 -0400 From: "Lorena Barquin Sanchez" <mbarquin at telcel.net.ve> Subject: Malta Gentlemen: Sorry for not replying before but I did not want to send information that was incomplete and it was only today that I was able to talk to a friend brewmaster that works for one of the breweries in Venezuela that makes Malta. Malta was is a wort of about 14 degrees Plato. Historically, it was made using only malts, hence the believe that it was liquid food. Remember, this wort was bottled without fermentation and it was also thought to help nursing mothers. Today, malta is still largely made out of malts. The usual recipe is: 80% Pale ale malt 15% Caramel malt 5% Chocolate malt Bittering hops are used. Breweries use the same types of hops they use in their Lager beers. I was not told exactly how much bittering units, but you should hardly be able to appreciate it. The brewmaster of the brewery I talked to uses Cluster hops in pellet form. The bad part of the story is that eventually, breweries trying to lower their production costs started to use adjunts and sugars. Eventually the government had to step in, remember that malta is considered food, and restricted the use of sugar to no more than 50% of the sugars in the wort, that is 7 degrees Plato can come from malts and adjunts, and the other 7 degrees Plato from just about any king of sugar(!). To make Malta look always the same, caramel coloring is used to adjust color. Well, that is how Malta is made. Now I am curious about the taste of Malta if only malts are used. Perhaps my next batch will be a Malta. I will inform. Salud Lorenzo Barquin Maracay,Venezuela Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 06:15:35 -0700 From: Pat Anderson <pata at aa.net> Subject: Mash Calculator Formulas Some time ago, Dave Draper was kind enough to provide me his BASIC program code for calculating estimated IBUs, which I incorporated into a little freeware Windoze calculator (TINIBUW.ZIP at the Brewery). I am interested in doing a similar thing for a program for calculating hot water infusions for mashing, along the line of the Suds calculator. I would make this a little freeware ditty as well. There are really two calculations, probably the same equation solved for a different variable: (1) Given the quantity of grain (lbs.), a desired mash thickness (quarts/lb.), and hence a known volume of strike liquor, and a desired mash temperature (degrees), what must the temperature of the strike liquor be? (2) Given the mash temperature and quantities per (1), what volume of boiling water must be added to achieve a boost to a second desired temperature? Maybe a little radio button to select US or metric measurements would be nice. If anybody can point me to the formula for these calculations, I would be grateful! - --- Pat Anderson <pata at aa.net> Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:57:43 -0700 From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro) Subject: Oregon Brewers Festival Hi all, I'll be in Portland, OR, for the brewers festival next weekend. In the days following the festival, I'll be looking for some beer in both Portland and Seattle. Any suggestions? I've been to Oregon a few times, but have never been to Seattle. Private E-mail by Monday the 21st, please. Have fun! George De Piro (Nyack, NY) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 12:08:32 -0700 From: Brian Amick <baamick at seidata.com> Subject: Madison, WI brewpubs I'll be in Madison, Wi, next week. Does anyone know of any brewpubs in the area that are worth a visit? Also, are the tours of the big brewerys in Milwaukee worth the drive? Thanks. Brian Amick Dickens Beverage Co.---Coming this fall...Dickens Cider!!! Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 13:23:23 -0400 (EDT) From: KennyEddy at aol.com Subject: Concentrated Boils (Eewww gross) -- No-Sparge, Batch-Sparge, Etc. Jeff Tonole asks: "Have any of you in the collective tried a concentrated all-grain boil?" Well, by golly, yes I have. My first few all-grain batches were done in a similar fashion to your technique. They turned out just fine (real well in fact) and I highly recommend it to anyone who wants to do all-grain but doesn't have the space/equipment for a full-blown three-tier type system. Pitfalls? As you mention, hop utilization is one; your concentrated all-grain wort will be comparable in gravity to an extract wort, so whatever your hop habits have been in the past, should be fine. The other pitfall might be in the amount of grain you have to use. There are a couple of "non-standard" mashing/sparging methods which are applicable here, which we have discussed on the HBD in the recent past. Since you are limited in the volume of wort you can collect, you will probably not be able to extract all of the available sugar from the mash tun, so you'll need extra grain to compensate. No-sparge brewing would be perhaps the simplest, albeit the most inefficient, method. It involves mashing the grain in a mash/lauter tun and simply draining the grain bed dry. You draw off "concentrated" wort, but you also leave a lot behind, absorbed in the grain itself. Because of this fact, you need to mash extra grain to compensate. How much extra grain you have to use is not clear; it depends a lot on your system and how well you drain the mash. Figures from 33% to 100% more grain have been tossed around. The important thing to remember here is that your gravity will be limited by your mashtun volume; a 5-gallon cooler will get you in the 1.040 - 1.060 range, depending on how much grain & water you use and how well you drain the mash. Keep extra extract on hand to make up any shortfall. See HBD's from around Christmastime 1996 for a discussion thread with actual data. Batch-sparging is perhaps the best way to go. Drain off most or all of the wort (recirculate first), then add more hot water all at once to the grain, stir, recirculate, and drain again. By doing this, you're recovering most of the remaining wort which would otherwise be left behind in no-sparge brewing. Therefore little if any "extra" grain is needed. The advantage of this technique over normal sparging (which is curiously called "fly" sparging) is that you don't have to provide a means of adding sparge water at a rate matching the mash tun outflow, as is typically done in traditional three-tier setups. Just dump the sparge water onto the drained grain bed, stir, recirc, drain again. You'll extract most if not all of the sugars using this method. While this method does recover more sugars, it also supplies more liquid volume, and so if you are limited for wort boiling volume, plan the session carefully. You don't *have* to drain *all* of the wort on the second go; just drain what you can use and write off the rest. Or, you can use less sparge water. After draining the first runnings, add a volume of sparge water equal to the remaining capacity of your boiler, stir, recirc, and drain that. So you're either getting more of a lower-gravity second runoff or less of a higher gravity runoff; it's probably a toss-up as to which is better. I'd guess that you'll have an easier time draining if you have more water in the tun. See HBD's from about two months ago for further discussions on batch sparging. One oft-mentioned variation of batch-sparging involves adding sparge water a little at a time, more than one would if fly-sparging but less than if batch-sparging. Three or four (or whatever) additions of sparge water are made while the wort is draining, and the grain bed is not stirred after lautering begins. I guess this makes it a closer relative to fly-sparging than batch-sparging. You don't have to monitor the water level continously, but you will have to check periodically as the sparge water drains through, and add more when the water drops toward the top of the grain bed. Again, if you have a five-gallon mash vessel, the available headroom left after the grain and mash water is added will limit the amount of sparge water which can be added at a time. Just for sake of round figures, a 5-gal container will hold about 10 - 12 lb of grain plus mash water at a rate of 1.33 qt/lb. At 75% efficiency, fully fly-sparged, this would yield wort in the range of 1.054 - 1.065 in 5 gallons of finished wort; no-sparge would yield anywhere from 1.025 to 1.045; and batch-sparging perhaps 1.040 to 1.060. Take good notes and develop your own technique. ***** Ken Schwartz El Paso, TX KennyEddy at aol.com http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 12:32:29 -0500 (CDT) From: korz at xnet.com Subject: Brews Traveler Tony writes: > what causes a beer to not travel well? Oxidation, usually: beer that has had a significant amount of aeration (either while the wort is hot or after fermentation) will get stale much faster than a beer that has been handled more gently during production. Yeast help protect from oxidation, so bottle-conditioned beers travel better than filtered ones. Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 14:30:11 +0000 From: "Michael Wood" <thor at dnai.com> Subject: Custom Propane Element I'm in the midst of making a custom brewery setup based partially on Propane heating. After using a variety of elements from Metal Fusion and Camp chef, I've wondered if I could make something custom. The design of a propane burner seems pretty basic. There's an adjustable air inlet for adjusting the air mixture, there's a certain number of holes in the top of the camp chef burner from which the propane/air mixture comes out This is what I'm proposing to do: I want to fashion a burner from some stainless steel tubing I have and weld it together with my tig torch. I would fashion the tubing into a U with caps on the end and a fitting at the base of the U for adjusting the air mixture and allowing the propane to enter. Along the arms of the "U" I would drill holes and weld a small 1/8" tall piece of tubing to each hole so that the flame comes out straight like the Camp Chef burner. I figure the dimensions to be about 10" wide, 20" long and try and get the total area of the holes close to the area of the camp chef's so the pressure would be about the same. What kinds of problems am I overlooking? I realize that the mixing of the air with the propane could be on of them. Michael Wood - ----------------------------------------------------------- email addresses: mikew at ricochet.net, thor at realbeer.com, thor at dnai.com, thor at onthemenu.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:37:34 -0700 From: silva <silva at realbeer.com> Subject: Re: St. Louis Brewpubs and bars > Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 06:31:00 +0000 > From: prahloma at mail.milwaukee.k12.wi.us (Matthew Prahlow) > Subject: St. Louis Brewpubs and bars > > I am going to St. Louis in a few weeks and would like to know of any > brewpubs to visit. Also, any good bars to go to for meals and good beers? > Please respond to my email address. > Matt > Hi, Matt, I got this off of a quick search from the Real Beer Page brewtour database at http://www.realbeer.com You can search right from the front page or click on the brewtour button to do more detailed searches. Cheers! silva The Saint Louis Brewery **Check this one out!** 2100 Locust St., St. Louis, Missouri 63103 United States Phone: (314) 241-2337 Brewpub Microbrewery - Distribution - Beer To Go Ask for Sara Choler & Tell her "hi" from us. Signature Beer Co. 2737 Hereford St., St. Louis, Missouri 63139 Phone: (314) 772-5911 Contract Brewery Anheuser-Busch Inc. 1 Busch Place, St Louis, Missouri 63118 Phone: (314) 577-2000 National Brewery Custom Brew Haus 6701 Clayton Road, St. Louis, Missouri 63117 Phone: (314) 726-2739 F6ax: (314) 726-1130 Brewpub Brew your own beer on premise. St. Charles - Near by Trailhead Brewing Co PO Box 879 921 S Riverside Dr., St. Charles, Missouri 63302-0879 Phone: (314) 946-2739 Fax: (314) 946-1297 Brewpub Publishers of: Real Beer Inc. The Real Beer Page 2339 Third Street, Suite 23 http://www.realbeer.com S.F., CA 94107 The ProBrewer Page 415.522.1516 - voice http://www.probrewer.com 415.522.1535 - fax BEERWeek realbeer at realbeer.com http://www.beerweek.com Internet Publishers & RBPMail Consultants rbpmail-request@ realbeer.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 19:40:48 -0400 From: "Mark S. Johnston" <msjohnst at talon.net> Subject: Re: Poor judging Pete Garafolo replied to Bob Talkiewicz's comments on the Lancaster Evening session: >Unfortunately, I am all too familiar with this particular scene. The >"judge" in question was actually trashing a flight of bocks, including my >doppelbock which had taken third best of show a month earlier. I received >a whopping 24.5, along with the helpful comment that this OG *1.087* >(apologies to Bill Giffin) doppelbock "would have scored higher as a >bock." Also, the FG of 1.026 left the body "thin for d. bock." Thanks a >bunch! Now I know that I should enter a parody of the intended style to >score well with this particular judge. I, too, remember this as I was sitting in the third flight of the Bocks. I recall that the judges at the other end did nothing but moan about how bad their flight of beers were. By the time they were halfway through, I knew there would be a problem. When I tried to get the Mini-BOS together and found that they had dumped one of their highest scorers (in spite of repeated statements at the beginning that they should save at least 2 beers for the mini-BOS), I was proven right. >I don't mean to make a big deal of this, but wish to mention that the >Lancaster organizer was very concerned (upset, even) about this trashing >session. I know that the highest-scoring beer from this flight (a split >flight) scored around 24 (one--guess whose--was dumped before the flight >was completed). It placed in the final three for the overall group in a >mini-BoS, so this judge and his partner were way off. So it goes. I don't recall the actual beers that advanced. The rep from the infamous flight did acknowledge that "This tastes better than it did before." when their beer was critiqued. And yes, I believe I can speak for the organizer in saying that he tried like hell to avoid situations such as this. He works hard to pair known "problem judges" with more level headed personalities to balance out the flight. Sometimes, though, things can't be helped. >I guess the point is this: we all get a raw deal occasionally; our goals >should be to make sure that WE never give someone else such a screwing >when judging, and that we can either sit back and bitch or do something. >Personally, I would like to make a positive contribution so that this >type of tale becomes rare. A magnanimous viewpoint. I do believe that this type of thing is getting rarer. But it's not extinct yet. - -- "If a man is not a liberal at eighteen, he has no heart. If he is not a conservative by the time he is thirty, he has no mind." - Winston Churchill Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 22:34:47 -0400 (EDT) From: "August R Buerkle" <buerkle at seas.upenn.edu> Subject: False Bottoms All You Brewers, I am looking for information on false bottom geometries. My planned system is a RIMS with a large diameter (22") mash tun (not a cut keg). I have the tanks already, but I have not yet made the false bottom. Where can I find the results of a previous discussion, if any, or does anyone have any relevant findings they would like to share? Specifically, any wisdom addressing mash liquid flow, grain leakage through the false bottom, extraction rates, etc relative to false bottom geometry is desired. Thanks in advance. Email at buerkl at cooper.edu is great. Return to table of contents
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