HOMEBREW Digest #2474 Thu 31 July 1997

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Legal brewing of Eisbocks (Oliver Weatherbee)
  Home crystal/dander/chile/hopbugs/gunk (GuyG4)
  Recipe for a friend I owe big time (LINUSNLILA)
  re: Vienna (Charles Burns)
  soda dispencer ("Chris Hansen")
  Canning Wort ("Welsch, John")
  Miller botches it! (Jason Henning)
  Malt storage ("Braam Greyling")
  Re: Blue Moon/Belgian candi/malted milk/Cincy brewfest (Spencer W Thomas)
  Re: Mead Help Homebrew Digest #2473 (July 30, 1997) (Cat Tambling & Jim Buttitta)
  [Fwd: Poor choice of words/contest entry] (Dennis & Jennifer Britten)
  Mini Kegs... ("Bessette, Bob")
  Dry hopping (haafbrau1)
  Subject: Yeast Starters and Paranoia (Dave Whitman)
  Dirty socks ("David R. Burley")
  The Brewery Web Site Has Moved (The Brewery)
  answers ("Dulisse, Brian K [PRI]")
  Blue Moon Belgian White (MIS, SalemVA)"
  Local Competition stuff (Ken Schramm)
  CO2 supersat'n: I've been converted. ("Dave Draper")
  Lawnmower Wit (dconger)
  Re: David R. Burley's  (and others) Message ("Larry F. Byard")
  At Wit's End -- A Recipe (KennyEddy)
  Porter with no body (John E Carsten)
  Re: Blue Moon (Graham Barron)
  Re: Mead Help (Rory Stenerson)
  Potassium (Mark E. Lubben)
  Botulism (korz)
  Yellowing hop leaves (korz)
  rectangular cooler mash tun design (Llb0909)
  Minneapolis Brew Info Wanted (hbd)
  Yakima hops? (korz)
  Bulkhead Fittings ("Kirk Harralson")
  re:sparge apparatus in ice chest (Charley Burns)
  Bot and the CDC : getting the real story ("Alan McKay")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 16:10:16 -0400 From: oliver at triton.cms.udel.edu (Oliver Weatherbee) Subject: Legal brewing of Eisbocks In HBD# 2472 Louis Bonham "shouted" about my statements regarding HOTD Eve. I believe a friend of mine would have referred to it as "emphatic assertion". I am aware of the BATF's legal treatment of the commercial creation of Eisbocks. And I am also aware of Louis' legal training and experience (well, at least what I can infer from his postings). Nevertheless, I do question the statement that I cannot make an Eisbock for personal consumption without a permit. And I do mean "question" which is what I did. I called the local office of the BATF and was directed to call the regional office in Philadelphia. At which point the basic questioning of one of their enforcement officers about homebrewing an Eisbock beer resulted in his statement that what I was describing wasn't illegal. He then backtracked and said that while the BATF had no problem with my "plans", I needed to check with my state ABCC. Well, according to DE law, the process of making an Eisbock or a beer like Eve does not fall under the definition of distillation. So it would seem, even without a permit, it is legal for me (according to the BATF and DE) to make an Eisbock or Eve-style beer for my own and/or my guests' personal consumption under the existing homebrewing regulations. I suggest people make their own inquiries before being scared away from this great style of beer. BTW, back in 1995, there was a real good article on homebrewing Eisbocks in Zymurgy which included a few recipes. Oliver Weatherbee http://triton.cms.udel.edu/~oliver/firststate/ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 20:04:39 -0400 (EDT) From: GuyG4 at aol.com Subject: Home crystal/dander/chile/hopbugs/gunk Kennyeddy presents a wonderful treatise on home crystal malt, yet wonders about fermentable yield. Kenny, how about a test mash? That's how I figured out about how much my home malted grain would yield...I mashed a measured amount in a measured amount of water, measuring gravity at the start, and the end of fermentation. Scale down to a pint, you can mash in a saucepan, sparge in a colander, ferment in a quart jar, and a packet of dry yeast will ferment the stuff mighty fast! By the way, I'm gonna try your method with this year's barley crop. Kate Cone asks if animal dander ever bothered anyone. I don't worry...I keep my critters out of my brewpot and keep my fermenters sealed, and I sanitize everything before it touches beer..pretty standard sanitation technique. I've got a golden retriever, 2 cats, and my mother in laws sheltie here most of the time. Brian Thumm asks about chile beer, recommending bottling with a chile in the bottle, ala that commercial brew. I brew a fairly standard pale ale, sometimes with rye, and dryhop for 5 days 5 unpeeled anaheims in it in the fall. Good chile flavor (no aroma hops) in beer a lot of people seem to like. It has converted several individuals to homebrewing. The commercial kind of chile beer is a bit much for my taste...but whatever you like, do. Question: My hop plants got infested by very small white bugs, look sorta like aphids only small...they cause a leaf curl. Any guesses what they are and how I can kill them? Another: My kegs sometimes sit for a while, and then when they are tapped some solid gunk comes out. I presume this is yeast and other solids, but after my neighbor went berserk and went back to drinking Keystone..(no beer in a clear glass for her again!!! The rest of us continued to drink this ale) I got to wonder..IMBR? I'd notice an infection by taste first, right? Is my neighbor reactionary? I think yes. One last....why does it seem like all brew competitions are in the lousiest brewing time of the year?? Cheers, Guy Gregory GuyG4 at aol.com Lightning Creek Home Brewery Spokane, WA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 20:15:10 -0400 (EDT) From: LINUSNLILA at aol.com Subject: Recipe for a friend I owe big time I recently promised a friend of mine that I would brew him a batch of whatever type beer he wanted, in return for him dog-sitting my hyperactive Lab for a long weekend. Well, of course his favorite beer is one I have never heard of, and he is not beer-literate enough to be able to describe it very well. He says it is a German beer called "Einlanger Ereweiss" (I don't know how to spell it, I am probably mangling it) and that it was a dark wheat beer, bottle conditioned I am guessing from the amount of sediment he describes. I immediately thought "Dunkleweizen", but I got him to try one I had brewed, using Special B to darken a normal hefeweizen, and he said it wasn't even close. Has anyone ever heard of this beer, or have any suggestions? My meager reputation as a homebrewer is at stake! Thanks Linus Hall Nashville, TN Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 97 18:56 PDT From: cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns) Subject: re: Vienna Braam asked about a vienna recipe in hbd #2468. Here's my latest Vienna brew for what its worth. My water is hard (170ppm) so the calcium I added probably wasn't needed and I won't use it next time. ==================================================== SUDS Recipe Report Deer Valley Vienna Category : Vienna Method : Full Mash - Single Decoction Starting Gravity : 1.058 Ending Gravity : 1.010 Recipe Makes : 5.0 gallons Total Grain : 12.50 lbs. Efficiency : 69% Hop IBUs : 29.7 Malts/Sugars: 0.75 lb. Vienna 0.75 lb. Wheat 4.00 lb. Munich Light 5.00 lb. Belgian Pilsener 2.00 lb. Cara-Vienne Hops: 1.00 oz. Saaz 2.0% 2 min 0.50 oz. Hallatauer 4.3% 15 min 0.50 oz. Hallatauer 4.3% 60 min 0.25 oz. N. Brewer 7.2% 60 min 0.25 oz. N. Brewer 8.1% 60 min Notes: 1. Rest Pilsener at 130F for 15 minutes (5 quarts at 145F w 1/2 tsp CaCL3) 2. Add other malts and 13 quarts of 165F water to bring entire mash to 145F and add another teaspoon of CaCL3. 3. Immediately pull 1/3 decoction (mix thin/thick - pull with cup, not strainer) 4. Bring decoct to 158F, rest for 15 minutes. 5. Boil Deocoction for 15 minutes. 6. Return to main mash at 158-160F for 1 hour. Sparge with 6 gallons at 180F and boil 90 minutes. Wyeast 2112 - California Common at 65F for 14 Days. Secondary at 38F for 2 months. Force Carbonate. I used Dos Equis as the model for this brew and it came pretty close. I did have a problem with the decoction, it got up to 165F (got away from me) and so the brew doesn't have the heavy malty taste I wanted which puts the bittering a little out of balance. The mash was a bit thin and I'd cut back on the water some on step 2 above, probably back to 11 quarts. Color is right on. Fantastic Head retention. Delicious. Charley Charley Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 22:10:10 +0000 From: "Chris Hansen" <hansen3 at pop.netaddress.usa.net> Subject: soda dispencer I have the opportunity to pick up a 4 tap soda dispenser real reasonable. My questions are (1) Is this setup usable for beer and is anybody using it, what are the disadvantages or advantages. (2) Does the keg still need to be cooled (maybe for preservation) or will the dispenser cool down the beer as it is drawn, like the soda it use to serve. And (3) How would I clean this thing to remove all traces af soda??? TIA Chris Hansen Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 97 20:00:00 PDT From: "Welsch, John" <A069067 at MDCPO102.HB.MDC.COM> Subject: Canning Wort There is a wealth of info from the USDA available at: http://www.hoptechno.com/book30.htm John Welsch Strand Brewers Redondo Beach, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 00:47:09 -0700 From: Jason Henning <huskers at cco.net> Subject: Miller botches it! Anyone remember Steve Claussen's post "Dave Miller weighs in on botulism" in HBD2448? It was an exerpt from Miller's Q&A column in BT. It's now died from a fatal dose of botulism panic. Evidently this toxin has swept the country in convincing fashion. Although the botulism panic toxin has been found in several cities, it is believe the toxin that left Miller for dead comes from Cook county Illinois. Everyone is advised to spout opinion as fact for next 100 Digests. Cheers, Jason Henning <huskers cco net> Big Red Alchemy and Brewing Olympia, Washington - "It's the water" "Sure its gonna kill ya, but who wants to live forever" - Daniel Goodale, Biohazard Brewing Company Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:34:11 +200 From: "Braam Greyling" <braam.greyling at azona.co.za> Subject: Malt storage Hi, I have imported a lot of malts from Germany. As I am a small scale brewer this malt will have to last a long time. I dont have enough air-tight containers for all the malts. Should I store the malts that will have to last long (like Crystal) in the airtight container or should I leave it in the double lining PVC bags. The malts that will be used regularly like my Vienna Brewmalt should I rather leave them in the bags ? What would be best? The bags is almost air-tight. Only the seams have space where air can flow through. How long will I be able to keep the uncrushed malts ? TIA Braam Greyling I.C. Design Engineer Azona(Pty)Ltd tel +27 12 6641910 fax +27 12 6641393 You can taste a good beer with one sip, but it is better to make thoroughly sure. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 04:43:58 -0400 From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu> Subject: Re: Blue Moon/Belgian candi/malted milk/Cincy brewfest Well, I've tasted and brewed a bunch of Wit beers. I had one bottle of Blue Moon "White" recently, and I thought it was pretty well on style. Definately at the light, soft end of the range, but still in style. Just my opinion. =Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer at umich.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:52:33 GMT From: mugwert at ime.net (Cat Tambling & Jim Buttitta) Subject: Re: Mead Help Homebrew Digest #2473 (July 30, 1997) On Wed, 30 Jul 1997 00:09:24 -0400, Shaun wrote: >I am intersted in brewing a mead (melomel) and am looking for guidance = from=3D > any mead-heads out there I have some specific questions: > >1 Acid Nutrient -- Why? I'm supposing you mean acid blend - this is added as a flavor enhancer not a nutrient. I balances out the cloying sweetness from honey. How much to use depends on the type of mead you're making - a traditional mead would need more than most melomels. Melomels made with acidic fruits may not need any. Whether the mead is dry or sweet also plays a part. I usually add it after fermentation and depend on tasting to determine the amount. You can buy a kit to measure titratable acidity and determine the amount to add that way. BTW, titratable acidity is not the same as pH >2 Do I need a yeast starter? If so and I make it with honey, is it = going to >take longer to get going than my malt starters? If you do use liquid yeast make a starter. There simply isn't enough yeast in a smack pack to get the fermentation going as quickly as I like. If you use honey add some yeast nutrient especially if you are using WYeast sweet mead yeast. Honey doesn't contain all the nutrients needed by the yeast. You can use light malt extract. I don't think you will notice the taste, especially in a melomel. But why make a starter at all? Consider using dry yeast. Some of my best meads have been made using Lavlin KV1116 > Yeast nutrient? Does this make fermentation complete or just faster? > Do I need it? Again it depends. With melomels, the fruit can add nutrients lacking in honey. Overuse of yeast nutrients will result in off flavors that however will eventually age out. If you're following a recipe don't think if a little nutrient is good, more is better. Wyeast sweet mead yeast will definitely require adding nutrient. Wassail! Jim mugwert at ime.net Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 07:52:23 +0000 From: Dennis & Jennifer Britten <djbnjake at iserv.net> Subject: [Fwd: Poor choice of words/contest entry] Message-ID: <33DEEF5F.343 at iserv.net> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 07:38:07 +0000 From: Dennis & Jennifer Britten <djbnjake at iserv.net> Reply-To: djbnjake at iserv.net Organization: Britten & Smith Brewery X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: homebrew at hdb.org Subject: Poor choice of words/contest entry Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks to all that have responded to the original post. After reading the follow-ups I realize that my choice of words was poor. I apologize to anyone that feels I have questioned the integrity of the Lunar Rendezbrew, including the judges and sponsers. With that said and done let me re-phrase the intent of my original post: Which are the bigger contest throughout the year with more outside entries? I kept asking my husband (Dennis) why he did'nt enter more contest and he said he did'nt have time, so I took over that job. Last night when he checked out the HBD he saw his name with alot of not so happy posts. "Why did you have to put my name up there too?" was his question. Oops, sorry to him too. Next time I P.O. everyone I'll just use my name. Sorry again! Jennifer Britten. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 97 08:03:00 PDT From: "Bessette, Bob" <bob.bessette at lamrc.com> Subject: Mini Kegs... Fellow Brewers, >>Has anyone had experience with the 'mini kegs'? I am interested in >>buying 4 of them, but want to hear from someone who has used them. I have a lot of experience with mini-kegs and I am through with them. I was fairly pleased with them at first but I learned that they are not a long-term solution to storing and dispensing beer. At least they weren't for me. The first real problem I ran into was the fact that the taps leaked CO2. I had to bring my taps back to the store on more than one occasion. Also a major pain was trying to clean the mini-kegs. More often than not you are going to leave some water in the kegs after cleaning. I have had my share of rust in the kegs which probably means that the plastic lining was torn or cracked. I actually tried a batch that I had sitting in the frig for about 2 months and the beer reaked of rust. After taking a swig of that I have no intention of ever returning to the mini-keg system. I am back to bottling for the time being and plan on moving on to Corny kegs once my budget can afford it. For the time being bottling is very portable and I can clean the bottles very easily. I can also see inside the bottles to make sure they are clean which was difficult with the mini-keg system. My suggestion is not to make the investment in the mini-kegs and stick with bottling or hold out until you can afford a Corny keg system. Believe me, it will save you a lot of aggravation... Cheers, Bob Bessette Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 08:10:58 -0400 From: haafbrau1 at juno.com Subject: Dry hopping When dry hopping, do you use whole hops, pellets,or either? If you use pellets, should you crush them first? Private e-mail is OK. TIA The only good homebrew is a consumed homebrew Paul Haaf haafbrau1 at juno.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 08:21:17 From: Dave Whitman <dwhitman at rohmhaas.com> Subject: Subject: Yeast Starters and Paranoia In HBD2473, Rob Kienle says: >What happened was that when I opened the wort starter to add >the yeast, I noticed a fairly pronounced scent coming from it that was >probably more "dirty socklike" than anything else. > >Thinking, geez, that ain't so cool, I scored another starter vial from >the fridge and re-innoculated. This second vial smelled better than the >first, so I let it go. (It still didn't smell delightful, but it didn't >smell nearly as bad.) > >All of this concerned me because the only problems I've had with YCKC's >products before seem to surround the first, 35 mL step-up. On a couple >of occasions, I've started the vial, only to notice *no* apparent >fermentation within it even within a couple of days. At one point, I >decided to disregard my lack of evidence of fermentation and just racked >the stuff into my normal 22 oz starter to see what happened and - >somewhat amazingly, I had a nice krausen going in the subsequent step a >day later, even without having had any evidence that such would occur in >the original vial. I've never used the YCKC starters and can't comment about quality or aroma, but I don't think lack of obvious fermentation on small wort samples is anything to worry about. I rarely see obvious bubbling or foam on my 4 ml and 40ml step up stages using my home-made starters (which smell great <grin>). The amount of offgassing you can expect is probably proportional to the volume of wort in the sample. I usually see bubble rates in the 1-100 bubbles/minute on active 5 gallon fermentations. 35 ml is about 1/500th the size of a 5 gallon batch, so one might naively expect bubbling in the range 0.002-0.2 bubbles per minute. It's worse than that. Bubbling only occurs when diffusion is too slow to remove the CO2 being formed. Diffusion out of the wort will be roughly proportional to the ratio of surface area of the wort relative to its volume. Smaller samples have a higher surface area to volume ratio, so diffusion processes do a better job of "bubbleless" removal of CO2, further reducing the expected bubbling rate. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:06:11 -0400 From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Dirty socks Brewsters: Ahh yes, dirty socks and sauerkraut - those wonderful lactobacillus aroma= s. Rob Kleinle is wwwworried about getting botulism from his yeast slants. = Don't worry about that Clostridium only thrive in anaerobic environments,= which I presume your yeast slants are not. As you guessed, chances are good you had a terrific fermentation and the "mystery" yeast finished before you saw it. You should try storing your yeast under sterile water, rather than on slants. This will reduce the chance of bacterial contamination substantially. - ---------------------------------------- Keep on brewin' Dave Burley Kinnelon, NJ 07405 103164.3202 at compuserve.com Dave_Burley at compuserve.com = Voice e-mail OK = Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 06:07:31 -0700 (PDT) From: The Brewery <brewery at realbeer.com> Subject: The Brewery Web Site Has Moved Many of you know this already, but The Brewery website has moved. The new URL is: http://brewery.org/ All files should be in place, the content remains the same (some updates should be done when we get caught up and have spare time again), but there may be the odd link here or there that does not function. If this happens, please email: brewery at realbeer.com There were many reasons behind the move, but suffice it to say that The Brewery had to move, and it was after a long, careful consideration before a decision was made. Please do not use the digest for long heated discussions as to why the move and why we moved to the realbeer.com server. I am willing to take on all discussions of this nature at the above email address. Karl Lutzen Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:02:00 -0400 From: "Dulisse, Brian K [PRI]" <BDulisse at prius.jnj.com> Subject: answers i have gotten some answers to the questions i asked yesterday, namely 1) is refrigeration cold enough to inhibit bot toxin production, and 2) is the amount of sugar in a starter wort sufficient to inhibit toxin production wrt temperature, my wife (a former cdc botulism babe) told me last night that both cdc and fda consider refrigeration to provide a "barrier temperature". in other words, cdc and fda believe that bot toxin production is inhibited by refrigeration. wrt sugar, jason henning kindly forwarded some info he had received from al k, which essentially said that a specific gravity of 1.004 is approximately 1 plato, which is defined as 1 gram sucrose in 99 grams of h20. thus 1.040 wort would approximately have a water activity of .94, which according to the passage from houschild and dodds (clostridium botulinum . . .) read to me over the phone yesterday was a level at which bot toxin did not form. it seems to me that both of these answers, particularly the temperature one, support the idea that canned wort stored in the refrigerator is a safe medium for use as starter wort. if you don't feel comfortable with 3rd or 4th hand information on this (which is entirely reasonable), call up fda, work your way to the bot section, and ask about temperature and water activity. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:17:35 -0400 From: "Moyer, Douglas E (MIS, SalemVA)" Subject: Blue Moon Belgian White My dear collective, Many of you have been quite negative concerning our little Coors's subsidiary. Allow me to share my experience. In my business travels (all over the Far East) and my personal travels (all over the Caribbean) I have tasted all the beers that I could find. The choices were almost exclusively pilsners and strong stouts. The beers imported from Europe that were available in the backwoods of Missouri & Virginia were usually skunky pilsners. In 95, I was lucky enough to spend 10 weeks in Portland, Oregon. Wow! What a difference. A whole new world of beer opened up to me. Unfortunately, I had to subsequently go back to southwest Virginia. So, when a friend picked up a six of Blue Moon Nut Brown ale, I was excited to have something different available locally (versus Sam Adams, which was the most unusual thing before then.) Then I found their Belgian White at the local Kroger. Well, Blue Moon was dropped about a year ago, but it pushed me to explore Belgian ales whenever possible. I've had a string of wits, tripels, lambics, browns that I've absolutely loved. I'm not going to argue that Blue Moon is close to style (I really can't remember how it tasted by the time I tried Hoegaarden, et. al.) but I have to say that I enjoyed it thoroughly when it was available. It pointed me in a direction in which I'm happy to travel. (Of course, my wife is probably not as excited about me spending $11 for a bottle of Chimay Grande Reserve during dinner Friday, but...) I currently have a nice pwit on tap at home that I'm enjoying nightly! Sorry for the bw. But I have to applaud the big guys for even trodding that ground. Doug Moyer Big Lick Brewing Collective "Big Lick--growing to meet your needs." Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:54:17 -0400 From: Ken Schramm <SchramK at wcresa.k12.mi.us> Subject: Local Competition stuff I, too, had been very skeptical about the local domination of competitions, but Pat Babcock's comment about lack of shipping abuse is a profound truth, abd I also believe that the lack of shipping cost and inconvenience makes the likelihood of many local entries far greater. Local beer is better on a commercial level (go to Belgium and have a mind-blowing experience if you doubt this). It just stands to reason that the same would be true for competitions. Schramm Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:02:10 -6 From: "Dave Draper" <ddraper at utdallas.edu> Subject: CO2 supersat'n: I've been converted. Dear Friends, After some fairly extensive offline discussions (mostly with Andy Walsh, thanks Andy) I have changed my somewhat stridently expressed views about the likelihood of CO2 oversaturation. I have been convinced by several lines of evidence (all of which have seen exposure in these pages in the past few weeks so I won't recount them again) that vigorous primary fermentation is not a situation where the system is at equilibrium, so that other kinetic and dynamic effects are the ones that really matter on this question. My position before was based solely on the (mistaken, I now believe) view that equilibrium prevailed. So, I do accept that CO2 supersaturation can occur during fermentation. Of course, it does not matter at all what I think, but because I had been quite vociferous in making my point I thought I should post now. I'm grateful to all the correspondents, online and off, whose reasoning led me through this topic. Cheers, Dave in Dallas - --- ***************************************************************************** Dave Draper, Dept Geosciences, U. Texas at Dallas, Richardson TX 75083 ddraper at utdallas.edu (commercial email unwelcome) WWW: hbd.org/~ddraper Beer page: http://hbd.org/~ddraper/beer.html I can't be bought for a mere $3.50. ---Jeff Renner Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 10:01:19 -0400 From: dconger at roadshow.com Subject: Lawnmower Wit TO: homebrew at hbd.org (Disclaimer: The following comments are intended to be lighthearted and humorous.) I feel I must comment on the all the slamming of Coors' Blue Moon Wit. If I'm having a few slices of greasy Pizza Hut pan pizza, do I want a Hoegaarden or a Blue Moon? A Blue Moon, of course. I'll save the Hoegaarden for a time when I can appreciate the extraordinary complexity of its flavor. The Blue Moon Wit is better suited to wash down some junk food. Blue Moon: The finest lawn mower wit I know. David C. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 10:54:29 -0400 From: "Larry F. Byard" <lbyard at gwi.net> Subject: Re: David R. Burley's (and others) Message Notice those equal (=) signs at the end of lines in various messages received here and there. Here's how to fix the problem for Windows 95... Click Start Click Settings Click Control Panel Double Click the Mail and FAX Icon Under the Services Tab, select Internet Mail Click Properties Click Message format Select USA ASCII Click OK Uncheck Use MIME Click OK The cause of the problem... the MIME format uses characters that are not included in the USA ASCII character set. The equal sign is used to represent one of those characters. This ain't beer, but I thought some of you would find it useful. Larry Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 11:05:33 -0400 (EDT) From: KennyEddy at aol.com Subject: At Wit's End -- A Recipe The Blue-Moon-Cloning therad has again arisen, with the usual "try Hoegaarden or Celis" responses. Well, I'll see them responses and raise you a recipe. An extract recipe at that. Belgian Wit is a lovely, unique style (and I don't even LIKE Belgian beers) that paradoxically is also one of the easiest to make "right", since its makeup is practically cast in concrete: 50% barley, 45% raw wheat, 5% oats, OG mid to upper 40's, noble hops (e.g., Saaz) to around 20 IBU, some late-hopping, notes of bitter orange peel and coriander, tart, dry, slightly phenolic finish. For extract brewers, you could forego the oats and use 50% wheat malt extract and 50% regular barley malt extract. In fact, you might be able to find a "weizen" extract that comes close to 50% barley & 50% wheat, though the 100% wheat extract should be easy enough to find. Please DON'T try to steep oats as it will only add starch to your wort. You're better off just leaving it out. Bitter orange peel is often perceived to be hard to get, but ask your HB supplier to special-order it for you, or check any of the mail-order outfits. I recently ordered some from Sunset Suds (sunsetsuds at aol.com, catalog on-line at http://members.aol.com/SunsetSuds/Index.htm, no affiliation etc). I've heard tell that regular sweet orange peel works, but get the real stuff unless you're in a big hurry. You can probably find coriander on your own spice rack. Hoe Your Own Gaarden Wit 3.3 lb unhopped pilsner malt extract syrup 3.3 lb unhopped wheat malt extract syrup 1.5 oz 3.5% Saaz 60 min 1.0 oz 3.5% Saaz 20 min 1 ounce dried bitter (Curacao) orange peel 10 min 1 tblsp whole corainder, crushed, 10 min Wyeast 3944 Belgian Witbier yeast or Hoegaarden sediment Ferment at 65F Some will suggest putting the spices in the fermenter; that's fine but in my experience they come through just fine in the boil and it's much simpler that way. Also, I found the Wyeast to take over three weeks to finish, so be patient. Because of the phenolic overtones of this yeast, be sure to control your fermentation temperature to avoid band-aid beer. Instead of using the Wyeast product, pour the beer off the sediment in a bottle of Hoegaarden, then swirl & dump the sediment into your starter wort. Finally, some brewers like to add some lactic acid to the final product to sharpen the tart, dry finish; that's fine but not really necessary for a pleasant brew. Go slow and taste as you go -- probably just a few ml of 88% lactic acid would do it. ***** Ken Schwartz El Paso, TX KennyEddy at aol.com http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy Return to table of contents
Date: 30 Jul 1997 10:13:57 -0500 From: John E Carsten <John.E.Carsten at oklaosf.state.ok.us> Subject: Porter with no body Recently made a porter. One week primary, 2 weeks secondary (temps in the brew room were higher than desired (70-75F). OG, 1.065. FG 1.012 (nothing wrong there) The problem is, the beer seems kind of "hollow". It's been forced carbonated and in the fridge for a little more than a week now. But the flavor and body just aren't there. I had similar problems with a Belgian Wit earlier this year. Several weeks of cold conditioning in the keg has turned the flavor into something I am please with. But I began with the same problem I now have with this porter. It just seems devoid of real beer flavor right now. I'm hoping for it to undergo the same type of transformation the Belgian Wit did. But it's a pain waiting, since I'm running out of beer and don't have near as much time to brew as I used to. Anyhow, here's the grain bill and mash schedule. Any assistance or advice is welcome. Sorry for the waste of bandwidth. Private e-mail preferred. 8 pounds, Klages 2-row malt; 1 pound, Munich malt; 1/2 pound, crystal malt (90L); 1/2 pound, chocolate malt; 1/2 pound, wheat; 1/2 pound, roasted barley; 1/2 ounce, Northern Brewer hops (boil); 1/2 ounce, Cascade hops (boil); 1/2 ounce, Cascade hops (finish); 1 teaspoon, gypsum; 1/2 teaspoon, Irish moss; YeastLab American Ale 125F for 20 min; 142F for 30 min; 158F for 45 min; 168F for 10 min Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 11:20:15 -0500 From: Graham Barron <gbarron at cq.com> Subject: Re: Blue Moon Ok, I certainly don't want to keep this discussion alive too long, but one more comment on Blue Moon/Coors and white beer: Michael Fay (faymi at earlham.edu) wrote: > Truly I agree, to each his own. But it seems unfortunate that anyone >actually believes Coors when they say that their blue moon is a Wit. And I >did not know that it won any sort of award. What kind of joke is this? >Admittedly, I've only tried it 2 or 3 times, but the dominant aroma I got >from it was >blueberry!! the artificial kind at that. I'd recommend to anyone who praises >Blue Moon's "Wit" Splurge a little and buy some Hoegaarden or Celis and then >see what you think of the Coors stuff. Truly. Once my wife, with all the best intentions, "surprised" me by bringing home a six pack of Blue Moon White from the grocery once. That was the first time I had it, so I gave it a try and, well, you guys know what I thought of it already. I finished the six pack, though. It was certainly not bad enough to be put down the drain or anything. Anyway, regarding the award it received. Apparently, it won the Gold Medal (if you can believe that) in the "World Beer Championships" in the White beer category in 1995. That "competition" is the thing run by the Beverage Tasting Institute. Coors regularly touts that award in it's advertising material about the beer. You can find the results of the contest in issues of All About Beer magazine, I think. I have always found their awards and judgements to be quite arguable and suspect. I mean, this Coors stuff beat out all the classics in the category. It was a blind tasting based purely on this strange "enjoyment" scale that the tasters use. Well, enough of this. Back to homebrew. Graham L. Barron New Media Congressional Quarterly Washington, D.C. (202) 887-8684 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 11:45:24 -0400 From: Rory Stenerson <71762.1664 at compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Mead Help Shuan Funk asked some questions regarding Mead. I'm sure by the time I post this several others will have chimed in with very good advice and answers to your questions. Here's one bit of advice= you didn't ask for, Use honey from a local beekeeper. He/she can help you select the flavor you may wish to use and his/her honey will most likely be less processed than the over mixed, over filtered, aged stuff you will probably find in your local supermarket. Here is the address of a couple local beekeeper associations in your area= , which may be a good place to start. Davie County Beekeepers Association William Phelps, 666 Pine Ridge Rd., Mocksville, NC 27028 Forsyth County Beekeepers Association M. Weatherman, 5395 Spainhour Mill Rd. Tobaccoville, NC 27050 Wish you joy of your Mead endeavours, Rory Stenerson, V.P. - State College Underground Maltsters, S.C.U.M. Member - Centre County Beekeepers Association State College, PA USA 71762.1664 at compuserve.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 14:00:52 -0400 From: mel at genrad.com (Mark E. Lubben) Subject: Potassium My small town in northern Massachusetts is in a water crisis since they noticed the well in my half of town had dropped from normal 20 feet in the bore to 6 INCHS! An article about it got me curious about water chemistry again. Our rain in New England is usually acidic (mostly carbonic & nitric) and the granite soils don't neutralize it well. A few years back the town installed a big neutralizing setup which stopped my tub and toilet from turning turquoise from dissolved copper. I was under the impression at the time they were using sodium hydroxide to 7PH. The recent newspaper article said they use POTASSIUM hydroxide. From what I can find in the few brew references which mention potassium they say it can taste salty in high concentrations like sodium but they don't give quantitative details. I know my beer isn't ruined since I can make a decent all-grain pilsner. Any one have any quantitative thresholds for mash, yeast, or taste effects from potassium? Most water reports on HBD don't seem to include it. I will sure be glad when the umpty PPM of chlorine is dropped back to our normal "spring water like" levels so I can drink it again. Right now I think I could sanitize my equipment without bleach! Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 13:21:40 -0500 (CDT) From: korz at xnet.com Subject: Botulism Sorry, but I've been away at AHA Conference and then I had a class for a week, so I'm really behind in my reading. Jeff makes a few rash assumptions and then writes: >I think we are safe using canned wort for starters. I feel compelled to comment because there is a lot of conflicting information out there. Both Papazian and Miller have said it's okay to can wort without pressure-cooking. Many posters, such as Jeff, use the argument that if someone died from it, we would have heard about it by now. The odds are very slim, but non-zero, that you will die from botulism from using canned wort that has not been pressure-cooked. Even if the chances are one in a billion, the consequences are bad enough that I don't want to take that risk. I encourage others to do as I do, err on the side of safety, and either make up starter wort on an as-needed basis, or get a pressure-cooker. Finally, I would urge everyone to stop *speculating* about the safety of wort canned using an open-kettle boil. Please! Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 13:32:18 -0500 (CDT) From: korz at xnet.com Subject: Yellowing hop leaves Bradley writes: > So what did I do? First I added epsom salts, because someone wrote >me that tomatoes have exactly the same appearance [yellowing leaves, >betwen the veins, then browning and falling off] when low in magnesium. >Unfortunately, this did nothing. Ahh... but it did. It will not reverse the process (at least not in a short period of time), but will prevent further loss. I had the same problem on my hops (when I used to take care of them) and just this week with my tomatoes and cucumbers. A teaspoon of Epsom Salts per plant is the cure. Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 14:41:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Llb0909 at aol.com Subject: rectangular cooler mash tun design I received a number of requests for my design of a rectangular cooler mash tun. The file turned out to be large so I didn't want to post it here. if anyone else would like a copy, I would be happy to send them one or if I get many I will post it. It includes some really lame pictures I made with dashes and overbars. CAD drawings would be too much like work. My e-mail address will change back to barrowman at aol.com after August 1. By setting that address up as a child's account for a couple of weeks I got the perverts who were sending me the porn into lots of trouble with AOL. I think I got porn because I have 'man' in address or it was someone's idea of a joke. SPAM sucks! Laura Charlotte NC Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 13:17:59 -0500 From: hbd at brew.oeonline.com Subject: Minneapolis Brew Info Wanted I'm planning a trip to Minneapolis next weekend, and I checked the= BrewPub listings on the web. But that's all I have, just a listing. = I'd appreciate if anyone can offer some first-hand info on good= times, food and drink in the metro area. Also, if any of the micros= have lounges, bars, etc. and are worth a stop, I'd like to hear about= them as well. Thanks for the bandwidth (no apologies for wasting it, I really= appreciate this information!). Brew on, fellow barley chefs! Mike Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 13:56:50 -0500 (CDT) From: korz at xnet.com Subject: Yakima hops? Jeff writes: >Bridgeport Brewing's home page lists Yakima as one of the hop varieties >used in their IPA. I can't seem to find any info on this hop. Any help? >Any good substitutes? Is Yakima Magnum the same thing? Maybe... Yakima is a town, a valley, a ridge, and a river. Saying you use Yakima hops is like saying you use Washington-state hops, but a little more specific. They grow everything from Magnum to Cascades in Yakima valley. Magnum is a high-alpha hop originally bred in Germany. You'll have to ask someone at Bridgeport to be more specific on their hop variety. >And what is a good substitute for Ultra? Ultra was bred to be similar to Hallertauer, but has some Saaz in it's heritage, and has (to my senses) a *lot* of that Saaz spicyness. I would used Crystal (another Hallertauer relative that is very spicy) or Saaz as a substitute. Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 97 15:31:14 -0500 From: "Kirk Harralson"<kwh at smtpgwy.roadnet.ups.com> Subject: Bulkhead Fittings I'm just beginning the process of converting some kegs to brewing vessels and would prefer to use bulkhead fittings for the drains rather than having anything welded in. The only information I have found on the web so far suggested using rubber washers against both the interior and exterior sides of the keg, with SS washers and nuts forming a water-tight seal. I'm sure this would work, but I can't imagine using rubber washers without affecting the taste of the wort. I also don't know if rubber will withstand boiling temperatures. I went to a few home centers and one plumbing supply store and asked for teflon washers, and they looked at me like I was crazy. According to one plumbing "specialist", he had never seen anything like that in the plumbing industry. So, what are my options for this? Kirk Harralson Bel Air, Maryland Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 13:47:26 -0700 From: Charley Burns <cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us> Subject: re:sparge apparatus in ice chest Steve Jackson asks about sparging apparatus in a rectangular cooler: I created a setup very similar to yours about a year ago. Actually five of us did this at one time in a friends back yard. For the sparger, we took a few feet (nice and specific isn't it) of 1/4" tubing left over from an icemaker installation. Shaped the tubing into a figure 8 with one end crimped shut and the other end bent up at a 90 degree angle and pushed through a small hole we drilled in the top of the cooler. The figure 8 lies flat against the inside of the lid of the cooler. We drilled 1/32" holes every couple of inches along the length of the tube so that the water would sprinkle evenly across the grain bed. I have bucket of hot water with a plastic spigot installed. I connect the spigot to the copper tube that comes up through the lid and just open up the spigot. The manifold under the grain bed goes out through the normal cooler drain with a hosebarb on it and drains right into the kettle. No reasons to mess with copper T's (expensive) just get a few feet of tubing. I think it was about 6 ft. Total cost of all materials including the cooler was about $40. I used an old cooler I already had and my cost ended up about $20. Efficiency isn't great but I really don't care, the beer's good. Charley Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 18:30:53 -0400 From: "Alan McKay" <amckay at mail.magma.ca> Subject: Bot and the CDC : getting the real story Brian Dulisse writes : "for the record, the first reaction of everyone in this little chain (including the people my friend talked with) is wondering why this would be a concern, since none of the cdc folks had ever heard of a wort-related bot outbreak. that doesn't mean it couldn't happen, of course, but among people with an institutional memory approaching 20 years, no one is aware of it happening . . . let me be clear: i am not claiming that the concerns about botulism are foolish and should be ignored. i am not saying that pressure canning is unnecessary. what i am saying is that it is *possible* that the characteristics of wort and/or the conditions under which it is stored *may* be such that pressure canning is not needed." Well, Brian, I must admit that you've done the best job to date of bringing some extremely useful information to this discussion. Yes, the key question is whether or not wort in and of itself can inhibit Bot spore germination. As you stated, we eat them every day, but the acid in our stomachs denatures them before they can be of harm. With any luck, one of your buddies at the CDC just might be able to eventually give us something conclusive on this issue. Thanks for the info. -Alan Return to table of contents
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