HOMEBREW Digest #2515 Fri 26 September 1997

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Citrussy Hop Tastes (smith57)
  freezer problems (Mark Tumarkin)
  Steinbrew Question ("C&S Peterson")
  Duvel (Kit Anderson)
  Cabbage smell in fermenter (Ian Smith)
  Ferulic acid (George J Fix)
  Hard Cider,rotten egg,modification,iodine ("David R. Burley")
  Preparing Yeast culture media ??? ("Anton Verhulst")
  Cider/Wine Making (Mark Witherspoon)
  hop bitterness rule-of-thumb (James R. Layton 972.952.3718 JLAY)
  cider (Mel D Irvin)
  Yeast Revival Question (Steve Altimari)
  Re: IPA (Sheena McGrath)
  Re: saccrification and iodine test (brian_dixon)
  Liability Protection for Homebrew Clubs ("John G. Petruna")
  Monster Starters (Charley Burns)
  Brass Fittings - Getting The Lead Out (Jeff Hewit)
  45 deg C rest and gummy adjuncts (John Rezabek)
  George is stoned ("John Heubel")
  PET bottles (DOUGWEISER)
  freezer heating control (Forrest Duddles)
  Competition Announcement (Jim Hinken)
  All-grain beginner questions (Doug Moyer)
  Oxygenation (David Whitwell)
  Looking for authentic Brett. yeast from Oak Barrel (Jean-Sebastien Morisset)
  Thought Experiment.,warm freezer,premature gelatinization ("David R. Burley")
  MCAB announcement ("Alan McKay")
  Re: Dry hopping in 2ndary, fermentation started again, IMBR? (Andrew E Howard)
  Hop Table (Adam=Fisher)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 04:14:25 -0700 From: smith57 at sprynet.com Subject: Citrussy Hop Tastes Greetings collective, it's been awhile. Quick question on citrusy hop traits. I have found the overuse of Cascades to produce this effects in a lot of craft brew lately. In one of my own recent homebrews made with Chinook (boiling) and Liberty flavor/dry hop I found a similar citrussy effect that surprised me. I suspect the Liberty although I have not noticed it before with this hop. Any suggestions? The bags looked properly sealed and marked before use. TIA. -jack in west point smith57 at sprynet.com http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/smith57/ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 07:46:36 -0400 From: Mark Tumarkin <tumarkin at mindspring.com> Subject: freezer problems Hi All: Eric writes: >On the heels of Dave in Dallas's refrigerator problem, I >have an interesting freezer problem. A couple of weeks ago, I >bought a used chest freezer, made by Montgomery Ward, that has >about 14 cubic feet of space. The freezer appeared to work when >I bought it (it had some frozen ice cube trays in it). When I >brought it home, I let it set for a week before I plugged it >in because I was waiting for my temperature controller. When I >plugged it in to the temperature controller, I turned it down to >20 degrees Fahrenheit to see if it would work. No luck. The >best temp it would get was 40 degrees Fahrenheit. Next, I decided >to unplug the controller. The freezer would still only get down >to 40. Then I tried putting some jugs of water in there to see if >this would help (thermal mass, etc), but it would still not get >below 40. > Interestingly, frost develeloped near the top of the inside >rear wall of the freezer. If I felt the walls of the freezer, >this was the only area that was _really_ cold. Then I tried >putting a fan on the inside to see if this would spread the cool >air around, but this did not work. In fact the inside temperature >was higher, probably due to heat created by the fan. > Luckily, the freezer is holding ale fermentation temps. Does >this sound like it is low on freon? The way that the frost is >forming, it would seem to me like all of the cooling coils are >not working. Why would it only get frost in one area? I really >hate to invest a lot more money on this freezer. Any ideas will >be greatly appreciated. I am not a refrigerator repairman (nor do I play one on tv) but your problem sounds similar to one I recently had. We have a refrigerator with a side by side freezer. It is relatively new (4+ years old), but recently I went to get something from the freezer and found that it was partially defrosted. Like yours, it still seemed to be working - but wasn't getting cold enough. It was still under warranty so we called and had the repairman come out. Luckily I've got a beer fridge, so we transferred everything into that one. When we got it emptied, I could see that it was defrosting in the upper part but at the bottom it was still frosty. The repairman determined that it was the defrost thermostat that had failed. I don't fully understand the mechanics, but I believe it was going into a defrost cycle and not coming out of it. The part was very cheap (unfortunately that part was no longer covered under the limited warranty - of course)and looked easy to change. Like many things, it wasn't difficult to change - just to know what to change. Good luck. Mark Tumarkin The Brewery in the Jungle Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 97 12:36:09 UT From: "C&S Peterson" <CNS_PETERSON at classic.msn.com> Subject: Steinbrew Question HBDers - Thanks to George, I too am curious to try a hot rock brew. In reading some of the suggestions for technique and material, I was wondering if there could be some sort of substitute product for the rock. Would some sort off stainless steel objects (nuts/bolts) or ceramic pieces (smash an old coffee cup?) be used instead? Will such objects be able to take the 500 degee heat? Clearly the object of hot-rocking your wort is to create some carmelized sugars on the surface of the object. Perhaps these substitutes may offer some safer, more predictable results that rock (although there is some appeal to using rock, simply for historical significance). Also, I wonder that if these objects were left in the boil for 60-90 minutes, wouldn't that be sufficient to dissolve the carmels sticking to their surfaces?. I would prefer such a process so that I didn't have to store the carmelizing objects to later be tossed into the secondary. It would be interesting to hear from those brave souls that have tried this type of brewing. I would also like to hear more of the results of brews crated this way. I was interested to hear the discussions on the German Mixed Ale category for George Fix and others. As has been mentioned here in this forum, many of us have not had the pleasure to enjoy a true German Kolsch, but instead are limited to what select brewpubs offer. This year I had what I thought was a decent representation of a Kolsch style beer, only to have it knocked heavily in the first round for being too bitter (1.051 OG, 28 IBUs, 5 SRM). One judge even suggested that the beer be entered in the APA category! Now this beer was a bit on the bitter side, but maybe I should have taken a page out of George's book, thrown in some carmel malt, and called it an alt. C'est la gare. Glad to see that the categories are changed for 98 -- a have a few bottles of the Kolsch left; maybe I should enter them again and see if the score changes. I still find it frustrating that their appears to be no "authentic" commercial examples of Kolsch in the states. Chas Peterson Laytonsville, Md Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 08:16:50 -0700 From: Kit Anderson <kitridge at bigfoot.com> Subject: Duvel I am going to try a Duvel clone. In Jackson's Great Beers of Belgium, he describe the process as; 1. mash with 2 row to 1056 OG 2. divide batch in two and each gets a different yeast 3. some time after fermenting starts, add dextrose to bring OG to 1066 4. after finishing, add more dextrose to bring it to 1073 and bottle Is there a reason NOT to add all the dextrose upon pitching? Adding 7 points for bottling seems awfully high. - -- Kit Anderson ICQ# 2242257 Bath, Maine Greetings From Northeast Texas <kitridge at bigfoot.com> http://web0.tiac.net/users/garhow/kit/ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 08:43:47 -0600 (MDT) From: Ian Smith <rela!isrs at netcom.com> Subject: Cabbage smell in fermenter Immediately after chilling my wort through my counter flow heat exchanger I noticed a smell like cabbage in the carboy. Does anyone know what this could be ? My grain bill was 13 lbs Hugh Baird 2 row pale, 1lb crystal and 1 lb Munich. Hops were chinook and goldings. Cheers Ian Smith isrs at rela.uucp.netcom.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 98 09:54:35 -0500 From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix) Subject: Ferulic acid I slightly disaree with Steve Alexander on the ferulic acid issue. The yeast strains I prefer won't touch ferulic acid with "ten foot pole". Moreover, I conjecture that (Weizens aside) that phenolic tones found in beer has much more to do with the presence of nonculture yeast than the mash schedule used. Cheers. George Fix Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 10:59:04 -0400 From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Hard Cider,rotten egg,modification,iodine Brewsters: Rick Gontarek asks how to avoid getting dry overcarbonated cider. = In the first place, a hydrometer makes a lousy measurement for the end of a fermentation in which you have so many things going on. Try Clinitest kit with pills(see past HBDs) to assure yourself that all of the reducible sugars are gone ( <1/4% on the test). = In this case however, since you used unpasteurized, unpreserved cider and malic acid is a major apple acid, you likely have a malo-lactic fermentation going on which releases carbon dioxide and is causing the overcarbonation. Residual yeast in the cider will ferment out the sugar you add to prime. After the yeast fermentation, I suggest you keep the cider warm (70F) for a few weeks to allow the malo-lactic fermentation to continue, then bottle with lactose to make the cider sweet and an appropriate (less than beer) amount of priming sugar with an active yeast culture. = - ------------------------------ Jon Bovard writes about a rotten egg smell = in his beer. In winemaking minute quantities ( a few ppm) of copper sulfate is added and the copper sulfide precipitated out which removes the smell. Check out a winemaking book for directions and be aware that copper in too high quantities can be poisonous. - ------------------------------ = SteveA says: > For this reason SNR >makes sense when comparing the degree of modification of different >malts. Sorry, but DeClerk says that resynthesis of proteins during malting makes SNR useless as an indicator of modification. And I suspect is especially useless in comparing modification between barley strains and above all different malts. Throughout this discussion no one (me too) has offered modern data on the molecular weight of protein content during different lengths of malting as proof of contentions. Also I find it equally disturbing that no one has focussed on glucans which contribute to a major degree (like75%) to the hardness of the kernel. It is easy for me to see that the fine-coarse grind test is a measure of the degradation (sort of modification indicator) of the barley glucans along with the proteins and that the continuing degradation of these glucans in spite of the re-synthesis of the proteins are the cause of the mechanical changes in the grain, leading to access for the enzymes to the starch during brewing. I can understand why these glucans were not the focus of our forebrewers, since they were difficult to analyse for with the then-current techniques ( like Kjeldahl nitrogen). We have no such excuse today and I suspect the information is sitting there. Any information of glucans? - ---------------------------------------------- Bret Morrow says: >. I have had negative (not = >blue) iodine tests on the clear liquid of simple infusion mashes = >(148-155 oF) in 20 to 35 min over a number of years. I have, however, = >followed the advice of the late, great Dave Line and mashed for about = >90-120 min. My yields are respectable, about 30-32 points per pound. = >My questions are 1) Why the heck can't I stop at 30-40 min after a = >negative iodine test? 2) Is most the usable starch in the liquid? = The simple answer is you shouldn't stop after a brief hold at saccharification because although a lot of the usable starch is available for reaction, not all of it is. I suggest boiling the sample with the = malt grains before the test, since I believe it is better to err on the side of getting all of the starch, than to not get all of it and risk a starch haze. I urge those who comment = about the possibilty of "lost" starch not accessible to the enzymes skewing this result to actually try this test modification before commenting further. - ----------------------------------------- Keep on brewin' Dave Burley Kinnelon, NJ 07405 103164.3202 at compuserve.com Dave_Burley at compuserve.com = Voice e-mail OK = Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 11:26:15 -0400 From: "Anton Verhulst" <verhulst at zk3.dec.com> Subject: Preparing Yeast culture media ??? From: Jim Wallace: >It seems when I prepare the agar and pour it into the tubes or petri dishes >I get a LOT of condensation. I prepare the media in a pressure cooker and >leave the caps cracked open 1/4-1/2 a turn but the condensation never goes >away...... What do others do to eliminate this problem. I use pretty much the same technique. I find that, over time, most of the condensation in the slants is absorbed by the agar to the point where it's not a problem. A 2% agar mix works very well for me. A lower agar percentage might make the condensation worse. - --Tony V Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 11:50:07 -0400 From: bveq97 at nestle.he.boeing.com (Mark Witherspoon) Subject: Cider/Wine Making Also Sprach Rick Gontarek: Trying to keep it slightly sweet and carbonate... OK, you will have a large problems: 1. Using Cane sugar adds to the winey taste. 2. Fermenting dry but adding more sugar to bottle adds to the winey taste. 3. Not using wine yeast. 1. Dont use cane sugar unless you do want wine. 2 & 3. Wine yeast tolerate higher sugar/ETOH levels, you will need to kill them off. Champane yeast will go dormant after all the sugar is gone. Then add more sugar to carbonate and IT will wake up. But almost all Champane is dry or brute dry. To make it sweet is to add so much sugar that it will die of ETOH poisoning (wine/Champane will die out around 18-20%). Add enough sugar (corn to keep from winey taste) to bring your Plato values up to 16%. Then add yeast, ferment. Add more sugar carbonate and leftovers to keep it sweet. OR Kill off the yeast will Potassium Sorbate, add more sugar, carbonate in a keg and bottle from there. I have made wine for several years now. This is the way that most major winery's make Champane. The old way of adding sugar back to naturally carbonate is very rare. Mark Witherspoon Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 15:51:42 +0000 (GMT) From: HOUCK KEITH A <HOUCK_KEITH_A at LILLY.COM> Subject: TRUB IX OPEN Hear yea, hear yea: the TRiangle's Unabashed HomeBrewers (TRUB) announces the 9th annual TRUB OPEN, Saturday, November 1, 1997 at Steve and Clark's Brewpub in Durham, NC. This AHA-sanctioned event typically draws 200-250 entries with prizes galore including the opportunity for BOS winner to brew a batch at Steve and Clark's brewpub. All AHA categories will be accepted though there are no awards for sake. In addition, the "Just Good Beer" category returns for an encore performance. Details for competition entry can be obtained from the TRUB IX OPEN web site at "http://www.mindspring.com/~trub9/", or by e-mailing "trub9 at mindspring.com", the Competition Director Gary Clayton (garyclayton at mindspring.com) or Registrar Bill Mackenzie (dedpetvet at aol.com). Judges and stewards are cordially invited for a weekend of conviviality highlighted by the infamous Halloween party Saturday night featuring at least 10 kegs of premium homebrew graciously provided by Andy Kagan and Keith Klemp. Saturday's competition will include morning and afternoon judging sessions as well as continental breakfast and lunch. Limited lodging opportunities may be available for out-of-town judges. BJCP points awarded as well as the usual honorarium. Interested judges/stewards, please contact Director of Judging Keith Houck (hak at lilly.com) (919-419-3714). Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 11:33:45 -0500 From: layton at sc45.dseg.ti.com (James R. Layton 972.952.3718 JLAY) Subject: hop bitterness rule-of-thumb Danny Boy wrote: >Speaking as a >homebrewer who would dream of a 122 degree rest, and who rarely checks >S.G., I'd simply like to know *about* how much to fudge things so an old >favorite extract/partial boil recipe doesn't totally knock my socks off >with hoppiness when I attempt an all-grain/full boil version. I checked a couple of entry level homebrewing books on my shelf for recipes which might give some kind of answer to this question. What I looked for were partial boil and full boil recipes of the same beer style in the same book. What I found was that the full boil recipes used about 25% less bittering hops than the partial boil recipes, on average, for the same beer style. I think this is a reasonable "rule of thumb". >Whatever happened to seat o' the pants brewing, anyway? It is alive and well, but IMO these brewers should expect occasional surprises (both good and bad) in how their beer turns out. Myself, I always to do a little math and come up with an IBU prediction for every recipe I brew. Surprises in the hop bittering department are something I prefer to avoid. I want every batch I brew to come out as good as I can make it. Try the online hop bitterness calculator at Glen Tinseth's Hop Page (http://realbeer.com/hops/). Look to the AHA or BJCP style guidelines for IBU ranges in particular beer styles. What could be easier? Jim Layton (Howe, TX) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 09:59:31 -0400 From: melathome at juno.com (Mel D Irvin) Subject: cider >Last year, I wanted a hard cider with a bit more sweetness, with less >winey characteristics. So, I used 2.5 gallond unpasteurized cider, 2 lb. SNIP I do 2 batches every fall. 5 gallons of cider and 4-5 lbs honey in each, one with champagne yeast and one with either a wine or ale yeast, depending on the mood. I leave in primary for 2-3 weeks, and then secondary for another 2-3 before bottling. Never have a problem with bottle rockets. I usually try to have it ready by thanksgiving and take a six-pack with me whenever we go to a gathering between then and the holidays. This year I am going to try adding a cinnamon stick to one of the batches. Hope this helps, Mel in Upstate NY Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 10:22:22 -0700 From: Steve Altimari <vllybrew at inreach.com> Subject: Yeast Revival Question Does anyone remember an article a few years back about an old shipwreck that someone rescued some bottles of Bass Ale from and revived the yeast? If so, or if you have information on yeast revival (not the religious variety) please drop me a line. Thanks, Steve Altimari vllybrew at inreach.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 10:50:14 -0700 From: Sheena McGrath <sheena at gte.net> Subject: Re: IPA Dear Homebrew Collective: I just had to respond to the IPA thread. When I lived in England (1993-7) I found that most IPAs aren't worthy of the name and are drunk by people who don't really apprecicate beer. Having said this, there are exceptions, and the gentleman who went to GBBF probably only had good ones. I am hoping that since Whitbread made Fuggles IPA other breweries are going to start reviving this style and make proper beers. It's not so much that the English appreciate a different kind of IPA, but that it's what the breweries give them. Don't assume that because it's English it must be good. Sheena Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 97 14:13:54 -0700 From: brian_dixon at om.cv.hp.com Subject: Re: saccrification and iodine test [snip] >forum as well as post a question or three. I have had negative (not >blue) iodine tests on the clear liquid of simple infusion mashes >(148-155 oF) in 20 to 35 min over a number of years. I have, however, >followed the advice of the late, great Dave Line and mashed for about >90-120 min. My yields are respectable, about 30-32 points per pound. >My questions are 1) Why the heck can't I stop at 30-40 min after a >negative iodine test? 2) Is most the usable starch in the liquid? 3) >Are there any other desirable changes other than saccrification that >occur during a simple infusion mash? 1) The reason you shouldn't ultimately rely on the iodine test is because it doesn't really test for what you want to know. Huhh? What you want to know is whether or not all the available and convertable starches have converted to a) maltose (fermentable), b) maltotriose (fermentable by some beer yeasts), and c) dextrins (unfermentable). If complete conversion to one of these three categories has not taken place, then two things are at stake, the first of which is not important IMHO: a) you haven't gotten the highest yield out of your grist, and b) residual starches exist that can cause haze in your beer. With all that said, then lets ask what the iodine test tests for? Yes, iodine turns blue (red, or purple) in the presence of starch. Yes, it remains the same brown color when the 3 sugar types that I mentioned above exist and nothing else. The issue is that there are higher-order dextrins and simple starches that do NOT cause the iodine to turn color, thereby indicating their presence. The only way to make sure that you've converted these middle-weights is to make sure your mash pH is correct, your mash temperature is correct, your mash thickness is correct, enough enzymes exist to do the conversion, AND you allow the mash to rest at saccharification temperatures long enough. Hence the disdain by some expert brewers concerning the iodine test, and the consistent recommendation of a 60 minute (or longer) sacc-rest in spite of the fact that the iodine test indicates complete conversion after only half an hour. On the other hand, personal experience, and the experience of others, has shown that you can produce clear beer with a nice head and good flavor characteristics with a shorter sacc-rest, say 35-45 minutes or so. But, what's so hard about waiting an additional 20-30 minutes? I like to take the chance to get the rest of the equipment ready with no hurry, and let the sacc-rest go as long as it takes me to get everything done: 60 - 90 minutes is typical, and just right. The lesson is that you can do what you want, but do it knowingly, considering the pro's and con's like you do with the rest of the brewing process. >If there are no other important reactions in a simple infusion mash, I >think the best "test" of the iodine test is to do 2 mashes with >identical parameters changing only the time (e.g. 30 and 90 min) and >compare the yields. Anyone tried this? This would not necessarily show you what you want because the middle-weight dextrins and simple starches mentioned above are soluble and will end up in your wort either way, giving you a similar SG to what you'd see in a wort made from a fully converted mash and the impression of adequate yield. You _should_ do this experiment, but do it with a split recipe and a split yeast starter, fermenting the beers in exactly the same way etc. When you are done, you can compare final gravities, clarity, head formation and retention, flavor etc. to see if the mashing schedules made that much of a difference. Who knows? I haven't read anything on that particular experiment, so it'd be interesting to see. (When you're done, post the results here, and write up an article for BrewingTechniques ... they're paying $50-200 for articles now, depending on how many words, graphics, photos, etc. are provided and how much work _they_ need to do to get the article ready to publish). Good luck, Bret! Brian ....................................................................... Item Subject: WINMAIL.DAT Couldn't convert Microsoft Mail Message Data item to text at a gateway. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 18:23:38 -0400 From: "John G. Petruna" <jpesquire at penn.com> Subject: Liability Protection for Homebrew Clubs As an attorney, I think I can shed some light on the usefulness or effectiveness of forming a non-profit organization to waive liability among members of a homebrew club. I assume no liability for your reliance on this information. The truly worried or panicky among you are encouraged to print out this message and review it with the local attorney of your choice. At least as far as Pennsylvania law is concerned (and I believe it is typical), the formation of an association or non-profit organization will have no effect on your liability for damages to third parties, and is not necessary for protection among members. Further, a corporation would likely not provide any protection against liability (because a court would likely "pierce the corporate veil" of limited liability once it was able to ascertain that the corporation was a sham, having no ongoing business purpose and no operating capital; doubly true where homebrew is illegal!). Don't forget the likelihood or certainty that individual members would also be named as defendants, bypassing the corporate form altogether. One can draft a simple indemnification agreement without a corporate form, but it would only protect against the damages of other members, not of injured third parties. A simple example will illustrate this: A, B and C sign an agreement stating that each will indemnify and hold harmless each of the others for damages arising out of the operation of a homebrew club (actual language is more detailed). At each meeting, they diligently sample and enjoy several fine-quality homebrews. After the meeting, A is already at home and B arranges for a taxi ride, while C, who is hammered, strikes D with his car on the way home (also injuring himself). When the lawsuits are filed (and they will be filed...), the agreement will probably protect A and B from owing any damages to C, but D was not a party to the agreement and cannot be bound by it. Thus D COULD sue A, B and C. On the other hand, in Pennsylvania, although D could sue A or B, she probably would not win because, to my knowledge, private hosts in Penna. have not yet been found liable for the actions of their drunken guests. Other states can and do vary on this last point, which sometimes is even treated statutorily. If, however, you are worried about damages for injuries to your fellow homebrewers (exploding bottles? bits of broken hydrometer in the beer? botulism? methanol?), an indemnity agreement would be helpful to protect you from their suits. But if this is your concern, maybe you should stick to that fancy, storebought beer. ;) (Of course, to find out the specific rules in your state, get your own attorney. Regarding this message, I understand and fully expect that other attorneys in the collective will add to--or perhaps correct (!?!)--this information as they see fit. This is welcomed.) The solution: as with all uses of alcohol, be smart! Maybe the AHA-Papazian slogan should be amended to read: "Relax, don't worry, have a homebrew! Just don't be an idiot." JP in PA Brewer of tangy, diacetyl-laden, opaque, chlorophenol-saturated beverages since late July. My slogan: "It's the lactobacillius acidophilus that makes it tangy!" Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 17:28:43 -0700 From: Charley Burns <cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us> Subject: Monster Starters In response to Steve A.'s post regarding creating larger starters (8 oz of slurry in 1 quart - wow!). Last night was week 5 of our BJCP study group and the tech topic of the night was yeast. David Brattstrom (already BJCP certified) joined us again last night and he related a theory about this (starters) that someone at UC Davis (a friend of his) is working on. I think he said it was a master's thesis or doctoral dissertation. Anyway, the gist of this theory is that when we are stepping up starters, its common practice to take them to high krausen and immediately feed them more wort, generating almost instant growth. This can go on for several cycles. This person's (name unknown) theory is that when we do this, we are 1)"training" the yeast to go for the the simplest sugars and ignore the more difficult to metabolize, and 2) we aren't giving they yeast any time to build strength in the cell walls. The results could be yeast that a) can't handle the more complex sugars and b) that die young resulting in "stuck" fermentation. This guy's recommendation is to let the yeast fully ferment the starter including the yeast going to dormancy. Its on the way to dormancy that the yeast rebuild their strength in their cell walls which just makes them that much stronger when reawakened and re-oxygenated later. It also lets them work on the tougher sugars so they don't get too lazy. Sounds like a good theory, probably a bugger to emperically test. I'm sure I've oversimplified and maybe even screwed it up completely but it sounds plausible to me. I personally never seem to catch my starters at high krausen (except once) so I don't think I've ever tested this theory. FWIW Charley (learning all about yeast, porters and stouts) in N. Cal. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 20:47:49 -0400 From: Jeff Hewit <jhewit at erols.com> Subject: Brass Fittings - Getting The Lead Out I have seen in a few places (including here, I think) discussion about making sure no lead from brass valves and other plumbing items gets into our beer. The recommended fix is to soak brass items in a 2:1 mixture of vinegar and peroxide. I've tried this. My ball valve, nipples, and other various brass fittings turned a nice soft buttery gold, and turned the solution blue. I guess this worked in getting the lead out. However, it's been more years than I care to admit since I paid serious attention to chemical reactions, so I have no idea what happenned. I'm sure there are more than a few of you who can describe what reaction took place. Thanks, Jeff Hewit Midlothian, VA Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:09:45 -0400 From: John Rezabek <rezabeks at alpha.wcoil.com> Subject: 45 deg C rest and gummy adjuncts Steve Alexander writes: > The mash-in at 40C of the Fix regime is awfully close to the ferulic > acid generating optima temp. What to do . . . I'm all ready to try a 115 F rest for a recipe that includes a fair amount of flaked rye (between 10 & 15 percent of the total grist). This proportion of rye has "caused" stuck sparges for me 2 out of 5 times. Supposedly 115 F (46 C) is a really good temperature for beta-glucanase and her relations, which might reduce the gums and make for smoother sparging. Although I occasionally ferment these rye worts with a traditional hefe-weizen yeast (e.g. Yeast Lab W51) I like to use a more normal ale yeast occasionally, like Wyeast 1007 or 1056. But I sure don't want those scary off-flavor precursors either . . . any thoughts? John Rezabek rezabeks at alpha.wcoil.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 21:32:53 -0500 From: "John Heubel" <jlheubel at wf.net> Subject: George is stoned George de Piro wrote: "For some reason, I can't get the idea of making a Steinbier out of my head. Does anybody out there have any ideas about what types of rocks to use, how hot to heat them, how to heat them, how to clean them, etc.? Also, are there special safety concerns? I would guess that dropping a few 500F rocks into the kettle might cause a bit of an eruption, no? Also, any ideas on how to move the hot rocks? I guess if they are small enough, I could just use kitchen tongs, but would using many small rocks present too much surface area for caramelization?" The Winter 92 Zymurgy cover story was about Steinbier and I too have been stoned for some time trying to get my hands on the correct rocks. Here's some of the info I've found out: The article (or a follow up) mentions that Graywacke is the rock du jour at Rauchenfels. It is also known as "dirty sandstone" according to Britannica. One of the specimens( Ordovician lithic wacke) pictured comes from Austin Glen, NY if that's nearby George. Anywho, the graywacke expands during heating causing an even greater surface area for the wort to caramelize on and into. The most recent BT also has a short blurb on it and the Brimstone Brewery (Baltimore MD) uses diabase which is a volcanic stone sometimes associated with granite (which can also be used). The Zymurgy authors used quartzite. and had good results. Bottom line: find some rocks that can take some serious heat without fracturing when dipped into relatively cool (near boiling) wort. Some info on Rauchenfels Steinbiere: O.G. 1.045 0.64# of stones per gallon of wort The Z authors used 1/2oz German Northern Brewer plugs for bittering and 1/2oz Tettnang (not to be confused with Fuggle) 20 min later. They finished with 3/4 oz Tett after 40 min more. Your best Altbier recipe should be a good start. Wyeast 1338 European was used for historical (pre-lager) purposes, though it would also go well with a lager yeast it seems. They heated the rocks in a cinder-block fire chamber, fire being of oak wood (I plan on using Apricot wood from some tree branches I need to get rid of) and they had a fan blowing on it to keep it stoked. They did give them an acid batch after a good scrubbing, but didn't mention strength or acid type. The rocks were placed in a tea strainer ( though I imagine one of those brass hanging kitchen baskets would work fine) and dunked into the wort. Once removed, they were cooled and then wrapped in foil and bagged in a freezer to await secondary. Rocks need to fit in the fermenter ( I plan on secondary in a corny, so fist size should do) and remember to leave a little head space for the renewed ferment. Hope this helps. If the batch goes well, send me some ;o). John Heubel Wichita Falls, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 00:53:19 -0400 (EDT) From: DOUGWEISER at aol.com Subject: PET bottles HBD collective: I have a question regarding the use of PET bottles for long term storage of homebrew. I know that the general concensus is that these "soda bottles" are not suitable for storage for more than a few weeks or months at best. I recently discovered several bottles of homebrew which have been in PET bottles for 18 months. This beer was never carbonated, but rather it was put into the PET bottles from the fermenter, the bottle was squeezed to bring the liquid to the top and eliminate any air space, and capped in this squished position. Now, after 18 months, the bottles are still squished the same amount. If oxygen had migrated through the plastic as is supposed to happen, wouldn't the bottles have expanded to their original shape? I'm curious whether this may indicate that PET bottles may not be as bad as everone seems to think. Anyone know whether the bottles would have expanded if oxygen had migrated inside? I plan to carbonate a bottle soon, to taste it for oxidation. TIA, Doug in Winnetka, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 08:39:30 -0400 From: Forrest Duddles <duddles at Imbecile.kzoo.edu> Subject: freezer heating control Hi folks, Ben O'Connor asked about winter heating control for a chest freezer. The Johnson A19 controllers commonly used by home brewers have 3 terminals - Common, Close on rise, and Open on rise. For cooling control the common and close on rise terminals are used. For heating. disconnect the wire from the close on rise terminal and attach it to the open on rise terminal then set the controller for the desired temperature. The choice of heat source is up to you. I've seen many types of small heaters, light bulbs, etc used. Start small. It doesn't take much of a heat source to maintain 40-70 degrees in a freezer. I use an old coffee maker hot plate element (it doesn't emit light). I use a Ranco digital controller which is meant as a replacement for the Johnson A19. It is easily adjustable from -20 to 150 degF and has an accurate differential adjustment. It can also be wired to both cooling and heat sources and use either as needed to achieve setpoint. I found mine at a refrigeration parts supplier for about $40. Hope this helps! Forrest Duddles duddles at Imbecile.kzoo.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 06:12:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Hinken <jhinken at accessone.com> Subject: Competition Announcement The Brews Brothers, Seattle's oldest homebrewing club announces the Novembeerfest 1997 homebrewing competition. The competition will be held Saturday, November 1, at the Elysian Brewing Company, 1511 Seventh Ave, Seattle, WA. Started in 1991, Novembeerfest has grown from a local competition to the most respected competition in the Pacific Northwest. This year's competition features something new - Fame! The Brews Brothers have arranged for the following respected breweries and brewpubs to produce four or five of the top scoring beers for commercial release to the public! The breweries are: Elysian Brewing Co. - Seattle, Washington La Conner Brewing Co. - La Conner, Washington* Twin Rivers Brewing - Monroe, Washington Flying Pig Brewpub - Everett, Washington * Still in planning phase We are still in the planning stages with the 5th, hopefully soon to be announced brewery. Winning beers to be brewed are subject to the approval and system limitations of the breweries. Entries will be accepted from all AHA style catagories including cider and mead. Three bottles are required for entry and the entry fee is U.S.$5. The standard AHA entry form and bottle lables may be used or contact Rob Nelson at the number below and entry forms will be faxed to you. Entry deadline is October 29, 1997. Late entries will be received until 5:00 PM on Friday, Oct. 31, with a late entry fee of U.S. $10. Entries may be shipped to Jim Hinken 24211 4th Place West Bothell, WA. 98021 (425) 483-9324 Visit our web site at http://www.brewsbrothers.org. Interested Judges may contact Rob at the address below or me at jhinken at accessone.com. For entry forms or more information, contact: Brother Rob Nelson Post Office Box 1016 Duvall, WA 98019-1016 Phone: (425) 788-0271 Fax: (425) 788-0271 (self detecting machine) E-mail: Nelson at witty.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 09:05:28 -0400 From: Doug Moyer <moyer-de at salem.ge.com> Subject: All-grain beginner questions Dearest Digest, A few relatively minor questions: (1) In the latest Brewing Techniques, they discuss building a manifold for a cooler-type mash tun and say to put the slots in the manifold facing up. Why? Wouldn't you be able to get more of the last runnings if the slots were down? (I know, it's only a couple of ounces, but I worked long & hard to get those ounces!) (2) When you are recirculating the wort for clarity, does it matter how fast you run off the liquid? With my setup, I can probably get a gal/min with the valve wide open. Would that be a bad idea? TIA, Doug Moyer Big Lick Brewing Collective "Big Lick - The best way to go down the drain!" Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:52:59 -0700 From: dwhitwell at foxcomm.net (David Whitwell) Subject: Oxygenation I am preparing to brew a Belgian Strong Ale using Wyeast of the same name. I want a low terminal gravity for a drier finish, and have been told that using oxygen to aerate my wort can help achieve this. As I don't have an oxygen bottle, I am considering borrowing the bottle from an oxygen/acetelyne welding set. Does anyone know if this is "safe" to do with regards to impurities in the oxygen/bottle/hoses? Brew On! David Whitwell Half-Whit Brewing, Tacoma, Washington "Because Half the Whit's Brew, and Half the Whit's Don't" Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 09:43:14 -0400 From: Jean-Sebastien Morisset <jsmoriss at qc.bell.ca> Subject: Looking for authentic Brett. yeast from Oak Barrel I'm looking for a Brett. yeast isolated by Brian Nummer, of Head Start Brewing Cultures, from an old Oak Barrel. Does anyone have this yeast in their ranch, or know how I can contact Brian Nummer? A similar authentic Brett. yeast would also be acceptable. Thank you, js. - -- Jean-Sebastien Morisset <mailto:jsmoriss at qc.bell.ca> Unix Administrator, Bell Sygma Telecom. Solutions Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 09:47:59 -0400 From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Thought Experiment.,warm freezer,premature gelatinization Brewsters: Ian Wilson's home experiment to evaluate the difference in ion content in= hot and cold water sources by measuring the specific gravity apparently only made it out of his brain and never to the table for actual application. Won't work. We are talking p.p.m.of ions here and the smallest division on most normal hydrometers is in the p.p.t. One thought is to try doing a conductivity type of test to evaluate the i= on content comparatively, even though accurate evaluation of the ion content= this way is difficult with non-professional gear. Perhaps go to a water evaluation lab with your samples. = - ----------------------------------- Ben Oconnor wants to keep his brewing freezer in the garage and wonders h= ow to keep his beer from freezing there in the winter. Put a small heater( 100 watt lightbulb??) in it and let the temperature controller on the freezer which you now use keep it at the appropriate temperature level. - ----------------------------------- George Fix offers an increase in the refractive index as evidence that barley starch gelatinizes at a much lower temperature nowadays than it us= ed to, by saying: 1. Liquefaction/beta-glucan rest at 38-42C - 30 mins. - during this period there was a sharp increase in mash SG as measured by a refractometer. I suspect what you see here is just what you should be seeing - namely th= e high MW glucans are being solubilized by the glucanase and this is leadin= g to the increase in the refractive index of the wort as they dissolve and this is not an indication of premature solubilization of the starch. Barley starch gelatinization temperatures are derived from highly modifie= d British Pale malts way back in the early days of scientific brewing as fa= r as I know. To complete the experiment two more results are necessary. Mash in at 40= C and 10 minute rise to 60C and a mash in at 60C both of which follow the same upper temperature scheme as the original. - ----------------------------------- Keep on brewin' Dave Burley Kinnelon, NJ 07405 103164.3202 at compuserve.com Dave_Burley at compuserve.com = Voice e-mail OK = Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 08:38:40 -0400 From: "Alan McKay" <Alan.McKay.amckay at nt.com> Subject: MCAB announcement Louis K Bonham writes : " 8-10 major regional homebrew competitions (selected on the basis of size, prestige, and geographic distribution) will be selected shortly as MCAB Qualifying Events" Are any of these going to be in Canada? -Alan - -- Alan McKay Nortel Enterprise Networks Norstar / Companion / Monterey Operations PC Support Prime Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 09:54:12 EDT From: aehoward at juno.com (Andrew E Howard) Subject: Re: Dry hopping in 2ndary, fermentation started again, IMBR? It is possible that you beer hadn't actually finished fermenting and the action of racking stirred it up enough to get the fermentation going again. What is probably more likely (in my experience) is that the hop pellets have provided nucleation points for some remaining dissolved CO2. Thus, what looks like renewed fermentation could actually just be already-present CO2 leaving the beer. I could be wrong... Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 97 11:05:55 EDT From: Adam=Fisher%SDL%MSDBED at vines.msd.ray.com Subject: Hop Table Hello All, A several month's ago someone posted a Hop Table that was spread out across a few HBDs. I want to add this to a Web Page but can't remember the name of the person who sent it. Since I want to give proper credit I was looking for the person who sent it out. Can anyone help me? Adam Fisher ********************************************************* "When I die I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather, Not screaming like his passengers." - ????????? ********************************************************* Return to table of contents
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