HOMEBREW Digest #2522 Sat 04 October 1997

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Obsessive Brewers, Toasting crushed malt ("David R. Burley")
  re:EBC/SRM conversion (Charles Burns)
  Re: Science in brewing (Aaron A Sepanski)
  science; beer for the millenium; Schneider yeast question (Mike Uchima)
  Re: RO Water & scientific minds (Matt Gadow)
  Home brewing really is simple (really) (RANDY ERICKSON)
  All grain ramblings (Matthew Arnold)
  Internet links (Adam Holmes)
  The Jethro Gump Report ("Rob Moline")
  The Jethro GABF Report ("Rob Moline")
  Re: Millenium Ale (Andrew Ager)
  Trub filter / Sam Smith rev ("Andrew Avis")
  science thread (michael rose)
  Fermentation Technology short course (Robert Parker)
  Re: Drilling holes in refrigerator (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Re: EBC TO SRM (Sean Mick)
  Re: Hochkurzmaischen / Homebrewing Science ("Hubert Hanghofer")
  Re: EBC to SRM (errata) (Sean Mick)
  Differential bitterness between all malt and adjuct brews ("Michel J. Brown")
  Lovibond vs. SRM ("Michel J. Brown")
  too much science???? ("Bryan L. Gros")
  Steeping your Grains (Nicholas Bonfilio)
  Re:  Hop plugs in a cask? (Jeff Hewit)
  Dry Hopping, Dr. Science (GuyG4)
  Headless Weizen strikes again ("David G. Humes")
  Vanishing Pumpkin (Kit Lemmonds)
  Refridgerators for temperature control (Donovan)
  Re : EBC to SRM conversion (Christian Guenther)
  PACMAN yeast and Brewtek's CL-50 Cal Pub strain (Mike Spinelli)
  Cooper loop in aluminum pot ("Alan McKay")
  Belgian wheat yeast (Kit Anderson)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 11:25:00 -0400 From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Obsessive Brewers, Toasting crushed malt Brewsters: Jeff of Casper provides an opinion based on what his store sales are and how that relates to the activities of brewer hobbyists. This claimed low use of all-grain (2%??) says your store is out of the ordinary, perhaps.= Along with some of the other statistics about the science involved (5% interested in Amylase - I doubt it). Pretty much your reported results relate to my opinion of who are the "wet their toe types" is in this hobb= y. However, Jeff, if you ask yourself how about how many of those who are repeat customers fit your "profile" I'll bet you get a different answer entirely. It also may suggest something to you about sponsoring a brewin= g club to convert these beginners into long term brewers who do care to produce better beer for the rest of their life than they did when they opened their first can of extract. Jeff says: > The digest attracts those who have crossed >the line between hobby and obsession, Thank you, Dr. Freud! > but by no means should we ever credit >ourselves for the advancement of the hobby, for we don't very closely >represent the hobbyists. I think you are way off base and I can speak as a homebrewer who has been= brewing since 1969 and lived through this marvelous revolution of one in which homebrew was properly distained to one in which homebrew beats out the big boys. HBD has played a large part in it by providing an open for= um where all brewers can ask and question without getting personally attacke= d and contributions can be analysed for their correctness without rancor. = This forum has a large number of the popular hobbyist writers as its membership and they are undoubtedly influenced by the HBD. Like the turt= le we can only move forward with our neck stuck out. We must strive to be a= t the leading edge, not back in the pack because advancement never happens there. I think the HBD does just that. - ------------------------------------- Ron Richie incorrectly had his grains ground at the HB store before toasting them for a Marzen and asks >Intuition tells me I should still be able to toast the ground grain, albeit >for a briefer period or, perhaps, at a lower temperature. Thus the obvious >question: how long at what temp? Any ideas? I would use the same schedule. My only concern, Ron, is that the flour fr= om the crushed grain can be explosive if you have a gas oven. Be careful. A= nd for sure don't stir the ground grain in the oven. - --------------------------------------- Keep on brewin' Dave Burley Kinnelon, NJ 07405 103164.3202 at compuserve.com Dave_Burley at compuserve.com = Voice e-mail OK = Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 97 08:56 PDT From: cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns) Subject: re:EBC/SRM conversion I'm somewhat unclear about the relationship between Lovibond and SRM but here's a couple of formulas that I found in the Beer Judge Certification Exam Guide written by Greg Walz and Copyrighted in 1992, 1995 (page 17): EBC = (2.65 * L) - 1.2 L = (EBC + 1.2) / 2.65 Greg's note following the formulae states: "Note that these formulas are only rough approximations, since different methods are used in their determinations." Additionally Greg lists the following references: "A Simple Technique for Evaluating Beer Color" by George Fix, __ZYMURGY__ magazine, Volume 11, Number 3, Fall 1988." Charley (still studying) in N. Cal Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 11:20:04 -0500 (CDT) From: Aaron A Sepanski <sepan001 at uwp.edu> Subject: Re: Science in brewing Ok, OK. Enough is enough. I stated one little opinion and now I am getting crucified. Does a stamp collecter talk about the scientific process and chemical composition of the glue on the back? That's what I'm saying. It's a hobby for Christ's sake. Have fun. Drink people's beer, share yours. But my God, let's come back down to earth. You guys that are interested in that stamp glue really aren't liking it at all. Aaron Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 10:27:34 -0500 From: Mike Uchima <uchima at mcs.net> Subject: science; beer for the millenium; Schneider yeast question Regarding the "Science in Brewing" thread... I think having a broad cross-section of brewers -- from beginners who are just starting out, to those who have the formal scientific training and/or are making a career out of it -- is one of this forum's great strengths. Why can't we just accept that there's a whole spectrum of possible approaches, from extract-based kit brews to those who take an "artistic" approach to hard-core scientific, and everything in between? For those of us who aren't brewing professionally (yet! :-)), let's not lose sight of the fact that our primary goal is to have fun, and make some good beer while we're at it. For those who are into the scientific discussions, keep it coming... it's much better to let people reading the digest select what they want to read, than to censor it at the source. ++++ Noel Lephart asks about "Millenium Ale": > I thought that ale's are one of the faster maturing brews. > Is it possible that this stuff would taste anything like > it is supposed to, in that many years? I'm not familiar with Millenium Ale, but a really strong ale (like Imperial Stout, Barleywine, or some of the Belgian Strong ales) can withstand several years in the bottle, and many will even improve with age. Assuming that this stuff has an OG of around 1.100 (or higher), hanging onto it until the start of the new millenium isn't unreasonable. Even so, IMO this sort of has the feel of a marketing gimmick... ++++ A question for anyone who has experimented with yeast cultured from Schneider Weisse bottles... I have now done a total of 4 batches with this yeast. Of those 4 batches, two turned out very nice, while the other two had some peculiar off flavors -- possibly fusel alcohols and/or acetaldehyde (not sure). Based on this (admittedly limited) data, the pattern seems to be that the batches that are fermented cooler (around 65F) have the off flavors, while those that are fermented somewhat warmer (70-72F) do not. This is the reverse of what I would have expected. Anybody else have any insight into this? Does this yeast simply prefer warmer temperatures? (A 5th batch with Schneider yeast is currently fermenting at about 70F, so I'll know in a week or two whether the pattern holds.) - -- == Mike Uchima == uchima at mcs.net == Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 09:28:17 -0700 From: Matt Gadow <mgadow at ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: RO Water & scientific minds I would like to publicly thank the esteemed Spencer Thomas, Al K, and AJ Delange who responded either privately or on this forum to my basic question about RO water PH. AJ's response especially, was very fun to read in light of the current "battle of the Luddites"! The opportunity for question / answer dialogue which HBD has provided me over the last several months has most definately made me a better brewer, and I continue to be amazed at the personal care taken by some of the best in the field to respond to my and other's questions. Thanks again to all of the HBD illuminati! As you have read here, my RO water ph was lowered by carbonic acid from CO2 in the air leeching into the RO water. AJ questioned the low ph of 4.5 that I had noted in the original post, which got me thinking about the carboys full of RO water I was using. I had accumlated the water over a period of several weeks, and stored the carboys in the garage, with carboy caps that had holes for airlocks. It made me wonder whether the warm ~90deg. tempurature, and the co2 from pulling the cars in and out of the garage would speed up or intensify the process of carbonic acidification. Now I'm curious, so I am planning on testing the theory by refilling a carboy, (and storing some water in and out of the garage) and testing ph from the time of RO filtration through to the next brew in a week or two. I'll let you know what I find... BTW - I forgot to use a new acronym - IMWR?? :)) Thanks for some great info, guys! Matt Gadow Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 10:36:43 -0700 From: RANDY ERICKSON <RANDYE at mid.org> Subject: Home brewing really is simple (really) In an interesting treatise, brewshop at coffey.com (Jeff Sturman) reminds us that we on the HBD don't exactly represent the typical homebrewer. He's probably right and I agree with most of what he says. I have to take exception, however, with Jeff's last point, namely: "[B]ut by no means should we ever credit ourselves for the advancement of the hobby, for we don't very closely represent the hobbyists." With one dubious exception, just about every homebrewing author of any merit at all has participated in the HBD over the years. Some rather frequently. And in the case of the history of Porter (Graham Wheeler) and the modification of modern malts (George Fix et al) -- just to name two subjects covered in the last year -- you heard it here first! Certainly their words on these pages have advanced the hobby. What about that awesome "new" beer style, Classic American Pilsner? IMO, Jeff Renner single-handedly advanced the hobby several notches on that one. How about KennyEddy's gadgets and software? RIMS? Spencer's Beer Page? Jack and the amazing MM? And the list goes on. Heck, even my club's newsletter (circulation 40) wouldn't exist today without the encouragement (and material) I've received from the HBD. Cheers -- Randy Randy Erickson Modesto, California randye at mid.org Stanislaus Hoppy Cappers c/o Barley & Wine, Ceres, CA www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Delta/1970/ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 16:59:33 GMT From: mra at skyfry.com (Matthew Arnold) Subject: All grain ramblings Greetings, Oh Wise Collective, First of all, my $.02 for the scientific/non-scientific stuff. When I first subscribed to HBD, I was blown away by some of the technical stuff. I was about ready to burn my equipment. As if by fate, AlK posted a comment about being able to make good, nay great, beer with extract and dry yeast. My hope was restored. Thanks to Al, Scott K, Charley B and many others for patiently responding to me in my ignorance. I'm a better brewer for it. Having said that, I do make frequent use of the Page Down key when reading HBD, but that's to be expected. Nothing will apply to everyone. I bring this up because hopefully I will be making the big transition to all-grain brewing this winter. The reasons I want to are threefold: 1) I've always wanted to. The idea of making beer from nothing but malt strikes me as extremely cool. I saw a family friend brew all grain when I was younger and it just stuck with me. 2) My frustration with trying to brew extremely light (aka Czech Pils) beers or beers with high amounts of Munich, etc., malts using extracts. Sure there's Marie's extract and the stuff from William's, but it's quite expensive. 3) It would be nice to save money per batch. Anyway, (don't hit that Page Down key just yet!) here's my questions: 1) My local water supply is quite heavily chlorinated. More so than other towns I've lived in. Will simply heating it to mash temps drive off most of the chlorine or will I need to briefly boil it? I do have a Brita pitcher, but it would take a small amount of forever to get enough water through it. I don't want Clorox Pale Ale. 2) Could someone PLEASE very simply tell me what the difference between fly and batch sparging is? What I thought about doing is just adding all the sparge water to the mash (carefully) to maintain a couple inches of water over the grain. Advantages/disadvantages? 3) I have a five gallon brewpot so I was either going to do a four gallon batch or do a partial boil. I know there was some discussion and tips recently about partial boils with all-grain brewing. I tried to search for it but was unsuccessful. Can someone point me in the right direction? Thanks in advance, Matt Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 12:37:09 -0600 (MDT) From: Adam Holmes <adamholm at holly.ColoState.EDU> Subject: Internet links I was looking at the Technical Library in the Brewery and was most interested in two links: Plans for making beer cases and a link for water synthesis. Are they gone forever or does someone have an updated address? Adam Holmes adamholm at holly.colostate.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 97 14:50:11 PDT From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at ames.net> Subject: The Jethro Gump Report The Jethro Gump Report >From: Jay Reeves <jay at or.com> >Subject: Hop plugs in a cask? >Can anyone tell me (no fair guessing) a normal >procedure for dryhopping a cask? I would just throw them in, and bung. If you feel the need to break them up, do so, but I think the difference would be marginal. >From: 00nelephart at bsuvc.bsu.edu >Subject: Millenium Ale > It is called Millenium Ale. >As explained, this ale is, supposedly, aging in the bottle, and is to be >consumed on the night of the new millenuim. <SNIP> I thought that ale's >are one of the faster maturing brews. Is it possible that this stuff would >taste anything like it is supposed to, in that many years? , "There were only 4000 units shipped >to the U.S., and we are able to receive 8 units total, 4 this month, and 4 >next month." Is this also more bull? Couldn't say about the number of bottles available, but what a great marketing concept! I wish I had thought of it, as I am sure they will sell a bunch. But, I would buy one, and split it between friends, and then decide if I wanted to buy more. While ales are faster to ferment and produce, some heavyweight ales, like strong ales, and barleywines can and do improve with years of aging. Now if this beer is a lightweight beer, say a pilsner, forget it, but a strong ale, perhaps it will be worth it. >From: Darrell <darrell at montrose.net> >Subject: Pre-Gelatinized Grains >I have a bag of flaked barley, and a bag of flaked oats (25 lbs. each). >Both say "pre-gelatinized". >Don't these grains have to go through gelatinization prior to mashing? >I thought that rolling (or flaking?) created the necessary heat to >gelatinize. Now I'm all screwed up. Do I have to boil these grains >prior to mashing? No. Just toss them into the mash, as you dough in. I used to just throw them into the mill with the rest of the grains, being a lazy fella, and not wanting to lift the bag, and stir at the same time. Worked for me! >From: 00nelephart at bsuvc.bsu.edu >Subject: Brew Pub Venture >A friend and myself are talking about starting a brew pub. Does anyone out there have >suggestions about >such a major investment. Anything would be a great deal of help. Brewpubs have been done for as little as 20K$, and the more usual figure is up to 250 to 500 K$. Depends on a lot of variables. What do you want to do? Build from the ground up, or approach an existing restauranteur and see about working with him? What do you see the place looking like? A small place like the LABCO, or a more major setting like a Rockbottom or Wynkoop property? Call the IBS at 303-447-0816. In fact, I recommend that you join the IBS. They have resources to assist you. American Craftbrewing Academy in California(?) has a seminar on this very subject. Look through the trade papers, and subscribe to Brewpub, Brewing Techniques, New Brewer, All About Beer, Nation's Restaurant News, and other restaurant mags. Remember that a brewpub is nothing more than a restaurant, with an added attraction, that just happens to add ambiance with a very healthy profit margin. You haven't said where you want to locate. Care to say more? >From: brewshop at coffey.com (Jeff Sturman) >Subject: Home brewing really is simple (really) > The digest attracts those who have crossed >the line between hobby and obsession, but by no means should we ever credit >ourselves for the advancement of the hobby, for we don't very closely >represent the hobbyists. Jeff is right, to a degree. The digest attracts brewers of all levels, but clearly retains 'posting' brewers more interested in developing their obsessions. But, to even some small degree, I think that the HBD does advance the hobby. I know that with the knowledge I have gained from the digest, I have personally aided many a brewer that called and asked, "Is my beer ruined?" And I know that many HBD'rs will have had the same experience. But, I also think we may be overlooking the fact that the vast majority of HBD'rs are lurkers, learning at their own rates of desired progression. For every one of the advanced brewers, say a Dave Burley, Al. K, or Dave Draper, that post on a regular basis, there must be several hundred that pick out what they can use, and let the rest just scroll down. Another point not made here is that with all hobbies there are many that may take up the exercise, and pursue it to a greater or lesser degree than others. In skydiving, I found that over the 20 odd years that I was involved to any degree, that out of 100 newbies, only 5 would finish the full course, and only 1 or 2 of those would become 'experienced' with at least 200 jumps. Same thing here. As for the whole science versus practice argument, I am of course firmly in the latter category. But, do I wish to see the scientific side of the HBD go away? Hell, no. How else am I going to learn to improve my beers, and increase my knowledge? Yeah, right, like I can afford a brewing school! >From: Chris Schmidt <CSCHMIDT at LHSNET.COM> >>From: Louis Bonham <lkbonham at phoenix.net> >>Subject: Homebrew and the law >> I have a friend who owns an apple orchard. He claims >>that he can produce "Hard" cider and sell it without a license etc.. Claims >>some kind of "Grandfather" law that allows for this as this goes back to >>the beginning of the United States etc. >I question whether the ATF feels the same way. This was the subject of controversy some time ago, when Bert Grant, had a cider produced under what he said was the 'Roadside Farmers" clause, that allowed for the manufacture and sale of cider by non-licensed individuals. I believe Bert ceased production when it was pointed out that as a licensed brewer, he could not claim to be a Farmer, nor a roadside vendor. But, I believe there is such a provision in the ATF law. Cheers! J.G. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 97 14:54:56 PDT From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at ames.net> Subject: The Jethro GABF Report The Jethro GABF Report Greetings from Denver! Am now at the Exec Tower, recovering from a brewer's party that started in a huge ballroom, then ended up in one of the tasting rooms for the PPBT, and helped get rid of some of the excess suds following judging! Its a tough job, but we were there to lend a hand when the need arose! It's good to be back among the brewers again, and saw many of the usual crowd of suspects, Charlie P. and his new wife, Richie Backus, Brian Rezac, Daniel Bradford, Alan Moen, Phil Doersam, Dave Edgar, Sharon Mowrey, Garret Oliver, Mark Silva, Tomme Arthur, Jim Parker, and the list goes on. Kinney Baughman is VERY conspicuous in his absence! You may be interested to know that one of the judges, whom I have known for many years, asked to be excused from the final round of the fruit beer judging. In his own words, "I knew who brewed two of them in the running for medals. They are very distinctive commercial products, and once I tasted them and knew which products they were, I felt it wouldn't be fair to continue." Decent attitude, yes? This years GABF, for those who don't know will be different in a few aspects from previous events. The awards ceremony will be held during the members only session, which is the first session this year. Advantages are, you will know straight away where the gems are, and the Saturday that was used for members in the past will now allow more of the public to attend, thus exposing more beer hounds to the good stuff. Disadvantages may well be that the medal winning beers may be gone before the end of the second day. Time will tell. Also, this year, the GABF has allowed breweries that met the time deadline, but applied after the 400 slots were filled to send beers for judging in PPBT. Advantages....more brewers can get real feedback on their brews, Disadvantages....there may well be beers awarded medals that are not available for the public to taste. Again, time will tell how it spins out, but this experiment certainly will be instrumental in guiding next years rules book. While, of course, there will be some delay between these posts, and their appearance on the digest, I will try and fill you in on some of the goings on, as they happen. Cheers! J.G. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 15:07:05 -0500 From: Andrew Ager <andrew-ager at nwu.edu> Subject: Re: Millenium Ale Greetings. Millenium Ale is, IIRC, a strong ale brewed by King & Barnes of England. It is _not_ a gimmick, nor is it a load of bull. I believe Michael Jackson wrote about it in an issue of All About Beer earlier this year. It's a small batch, thus the exceptionally low import numbers. If you enjoy strong beers and specialty beers, I'd pick one up quick, before the other beer geeks raid the store. Cheers, Andy Ager Brewer, beer geek, free-lance historian. Chicago, IL http://www.devnull.net/~andy (will appear when I have free time again) "The Puritanical nonsense of excluding children and -- therefore -- to some extent women from pubs has turned these places into mere boozing shops instead of the family gathering places that they ought to be." --George Orwell Return to table of contents
Date: 2 Oct 1997 13:44:39 -0600 From: "Andrew Avis" <Andrew.Avis.0519423 at nt.com> Subject: Trub filter / Sam Smith rev Subject: Time: 2:13 = PM OFFICE MEMO Trub filter / Sam Smith revisited Date: = 2/10/97 Many thanks to those who responded to my question about the copper loop = hop/trub filter. To summarize the responses: Most people also found that a very small = amount of trub made it through, although a few had perfectly clear wort = every time. It seems that the size of the slits makes a difference = (there are "narrow" hacksaw blades, and even smaller dremel tools for = making very small slits), as does the grain bill (I was using 8.5% oats, = causing lots of break). This information might be useful for = constructing copper mashtun manifolds as well. As for my question about what yeast to use when emulating Sam Smith Taddy = Porter: 3 votes for Wyeast 1098 2 for 1335 1 each for 1084 and 1028 Al Korzonas mentioned that the Yeast Culture Kit company actually has the = Sam Smith yeast. He also pointed me to a tour of the Sam Smith brewery = on his site (www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo) which was quite well done. It = seems that (according to one of Michael Jackson's books, anyway) the = Yorkshire Square fermentors (made of slate) contribute sigificantly to = the beer's characte. Now I just need to construct a stone carboy... Cheers, Drew Avis Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 13:53:14 -0700 From: michael rose <mrose at ucr.campus.mci.net> Subject: science thread Brewshop-Coffy writes, > but by no means should we ever credit > ourselves for the advancement of the hobby, for we don't very closely > represent the hobbyists. > I've probably given some of my homebrew to 100 people over the past few years and its doubtful that any of them took up the hobby, but most of them went away learning that there are more than just 3 catagories of beer (Bud-Miller-Coors). You may respond that these people don't brew, so they are not hobbiest. Thats like saying if you don't PLAY pro-football or DRIVE a Nascar race car then you can't be passionate about it. Only recently has good quality beer become available to the American public via brew-pubs. A lot of this change can be credited to this digest. Fromer bud drinker, Mike Rose P.S. Responding to the too much science remark, I've learned more from this digest than I have from my brewing books or my homebrew friends. Thank-you to all who take the time to contribute. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 16:58:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Parker <parker at parker.eng.ohio-state.edu> Subject: Fermentation Technology short course Found the following in an announcement mailed to me. From January 19-23, the MIT Center for Advanced Educational Services is offering a course entitled Fermentation Technology. The good news...it's in Switzerland during ski season. The bad news...it's $3000. For info, see http://web.mit.edu/winter-programs/ Rob Parker parker.242 at osu.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 15:34:06 -0500 From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) Subject: Re: Drilling holes in refrigerator > >From: Ian Smith <rela!isrs at netcom.com> > > >Has anyone tried drilling holes through a modern 21 cu ft (Amana) > >refrigerator - the condenser is located in the base of the machine > and is fan > >cooled. Where is the evaporator ? I suspect it runs through the back > and > s>ides of the refrig. is this true ? I remember someone saying > recently that > >he walls had a bazzilion tubes in them. If I drill willy-nillie > through the > >back or walls IMRR (is my refrig ruined). > > Of course your refrigerator is ruined (YRIR), all the cool air will > leak out! :>))) > > Sorry - could not resist, but seriously I can only tell you what I > found in my Kenmore 21 cu foot side by side. > > I needed to replace the evaporator fan (the cold one). And it was > located inside the freezer on the back wall, > the fan blew air through and around the evaporator core, an aluminum > finned object. So if you have this kind > of equipment, than it should be easy to find it. The fan and panels > are made to easily (ha ha ha ha) be removed > for servicing. > > Happy Brewing > > Ron Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 14:08:43 -0700 (PDT) From: homebrew at dcn.davis.ca.us (Sean Mick) Subject: Re: EBC TO SRM BRAAM wrote: >How can I convert EBC to SRM ? >Are there a formula for this ? >I would prefer to convert EBC to SRM because I understand that >Lovibond is not described by a simple mathematical formula. >Can EBC be described by a simple formula ? Fred Eckhardt notes ("The Essentials of Beer Style") that sometimes the conversion looks like this: 1 degree EBC = 2.65 degrees SRM less 1.2 This, I think, only works approximately for lighter color beers under the color of Michelob dark. I'm sure others can comment on the exact reasons why. HTH. Sean Mick Mick's Homebrew Supplies http://www.dcn.davis.ca.us/~homebrew Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 23:10:00 +0200 From: "Hubert Hanghofer" <hhanghof at netbeer.co.at> Subject: Re: Hochkurzmaischen / Homebrewing Science Dave Burley wrote in HBD#2519 > To be as clear as I can be, I believe that the average modification > of *Pale* German malts used in the Hochkurzmaishen and other infusion related > mash schedules can (and maybe must) have a higher modification than > *Pilsner* and *Lager* malts of yesteryear used in Germany. Hochkurzmaischen is a _decoction_ related mash schedule. The original form is a double decoction: mashing in at 62C primary, thick decoction to 70-72C secondary decoction to mashout at 76-78C. Features: Unusual high mashing in temp! ...You're right Dave, the malts *must* be very well modified and homogenous -Kolbach index >40%. Using traditional decoction methods, 70-72C is only touched via short conversion rests of partial mashes. The longer rest of the residual mash in Hochkurzmaischen promotes releasing glycoproteids. Due to smaller partial mashes and shorter schedules (2 hours) energy consumption is lower than with conventional decoction -an important factor for our big brothers. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Homebrewing Science: Everyone of us knows the signature of Rob Moline: "The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About Beer!" ...There's nothing to add! CHEERS & sehr zum Wohle! Hubert in Salzburg - Austria http://www.netbeer.co.at/beer/ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 14:15:31 -0700 (PDT) From: homebrew at dcn.davis.ca.us (Sean Mick) Subject: Re: EBC to SRM (errata) Oops! I should have said it only works for beers of 4 degrees SRM or less. This info is according to George Fix, as found in "Evaluating Beers," resulting from a conversation with Roger Briess (Briess Malting), and his own experiments/research. Apparently, the two scales (EBC and SRM) use completely different analytical procedures to reach their results, therefore, conversions between the two using a mathematical equation is held suspect in the professional brewing community. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 15:25:31 -0800 From: "Michel J. Brown" <homemade at spiritone.com> Subject: Differential bitterness between all malt and adjuct brews > >Finally, it's also likely that since the all-grain recipe added a >different mineral profile to the brew than the adjunct recipe did, >you probably are experiencing some different ion-hop flavor >interactions also. > I'd really like to know how that this could have happened when I used the exact same mineral profile, and the exact same water. I think the theory about yeast metabolism causing the differential in *perceived* bitterness is the most likely explanation. I presumed that this was the case, but not being an Enologist/Zymurgist by trade or education, was merely speculation on my part. Thanks for the input! Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 16:31:40 -0800 From: "Michel J. Brown" <homemade at spiritone.com> Subject: Lovibond vs. SRM Thanks to Fred I have resolved my dilemma! Apparently Fred was correct about spurious light striking my quartz test tube...when I pushed the tube inside the cell hole in the spectrophotometer, light was leaking around *sides* of the test tube via internal reflection (relatively high index of refraction for quartz. This was easily demonstrated by calibrating, then testing, then recalibrating the Spec100 successively. My measurments were ~10-20% off. The solution was to place an opaque container over the tube entry orifice while calibrating, and testing. This has reduced my error to +- 0.05%, which is within the specified tolerance for my old, but reliable (thanks to Fred) spectrophotometer! Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 16:50:19 -0700 From: "Bryan L. Gros" <gros at bigfoot.com> Subject: too much science???? Are Aaron A Sepanski and Joe Rolfe saying that there is not enough science in professional brewing but too much in HBD? Is this really a bad thing? If this forum is too serious, there's always alt.beer. brewshop at coffey.com (Jeff Sturman) writes: >In reference to the recent posts about the over-complicated discussions >that sometimes seem to overrun the digest, I would guesstimate the >following figures are pretty close to average for all home brewers in the <stats snipped> Your numbers are interesting if they are accurate. It seems odd to me that only 5% or fewer brewers have brought about such changes in supplies in the last few years. Hops are now labeled with AA and sometimes Beta acids and oils and are in O2 bags. Maltsters have increased the varieties of malt they offer and are sending analysis sheets. Books by Dr. Fix and Dave Miller and others and magazines like Brewing Techniques keep updating brewers on new technical information. HBD subscriptions keep climbing. The AHA offers a technical forum. Is all this due to just a few of the thousands of homebrewers? - Bryan gros at bigfoot.com Oakland, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 17:04:52 -0700 From: Nicholas Bonfilio <nicholas at Remedy.COM> Subject: Steeping your Grains My brewing experiences have just started. I have brewed 3 batches of ale. For the last 2 batches, I have been following the partial-mash technique. One thing puzzles me regarding steeping the grain--is it critical to steep in just a few quarts of liquor? I have been using a couple of gallons. I figured that I will be combining the steeped liquor to the plain liquor anyway... Could there be any penalties steeping in even 5 gallons? I appreciate any suggestions. Nick Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 22:18:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeff Hewit <jhewit at erols.com> Subject: Re: Hop plugs in a cask? I can't comment about dry hopping with plugs in a cask, but I routinely dry hop with plugs during secondary fermentation in a carboy. I need to cut them in half to get them through the hole, but it's much easier and quicker than using whole hops. Within a day, the plugs have broken up and float around pretty much like whole hops. Jeff Hewit Midlothian, VA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 23:54:26 -0400 (EDT) From: GuyG4 at aol.com Subject: Dry Hopping, Dr. Science Sorry to break up this discussion about science or art, but..perhaps someone would help out a bit with a mundane brewing question. I recently entered an IPA in a local competition. I took 3rd in the IPAs, and judges comments were excellent. Both said "needs more hops, try dry hopping!" Yeah, well, this puppy sat in the secondary under 2 ounces of E. Kent Goldings for 2 bloody weeks, OK...but, of course, the judges were right, and it just didn't have the hop nose I was looking for. Perhaps one of our scientific bretheren could expand on a couple of issues. How about: What factors enhance dryhopping, what factors in wort might thwart dry hopping effects, what hops are best to select for dryhopping and why. I have had a very difficult time with a lot of beers getting the kind of hop nose I want. Artists are welcome to reply too, but I think I need science here, folks...though we geologists tend to mix art and science until we're wrong... BTW, if you haven't entered a competition, do so. You'll learn a lot about your beer. Still resting at 122F, Guy Gregory Lightning Creek Home Brewery Spokane, WA "I ain't an athlete....I'm a baseball player!" - John Kruk Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 00:20:48 -0400 From: "David G. Humes" <d.humes at internetMCI.com> Subject: Headless Weizen strikes again Greetings, I've been attempting to get a reasonable approximation to the weizen style by using a step mashing schedule rather than the more traditional decoction schedules. Unfortunately, my shedule has included the now much maligned 122F rest, and my results have been great tasting but headless beers. Even though I can accept the arguments against the 122F rest, I've got to wonder if something else is the real head killer in this beer. If the lack of medium length proteins is the alledged cause of poor head retention, then I would think that the beer prior to fermentation would not be able to form much of a head when it is areated. However, when I areate, the wort kicks up a considerable head of foam which takes hours to subside. Is the foam produced in the wort the result of different compounds than those which sustain head in the fermented beer? If so, then either these compounds must be metabolized during fermentation, or the fermentation is producing compounds that reduce head retention. I would suspect that the 4-vinyl guaiacol, characteristic of a weizen fermented with the Weinhestephan yeast, would not be conducive to a good head since it is a high molecular weight alcohol. I've reduced my fermentation temperature a little to try to get a little less 4-vinyl guaiacol, but so far my weizens remain headless. I don't want to reduce it much more, otherwise it won't be a weizen. Any thoughts? Thanks. - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------- d.humes at internetMCI.com Dave Humes - ----------------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 06:38:03 -0500 (CDT) From: Kit Lemmonds <klemmonds at aristotle.net> Subject: Vanishing Pumpkin There have been recent posts on losing the pumpkin aroma and flavor during the fermentation process. I have survived that problem with my pumpkin ale, but ran into another (and even more annoying) problem. I think I was able to keep the pumpkin flavor in my beer because it was playing around a bit. My mash was 3.2lbs of Libby's pumpking pie filling and 1lb US 2 row malt (I know, I should have used more malt). This was the first 'mash' I'd ever done, and I was using the oven/pot technique. I had never demanded precise temperatures from the oven before, and so I discovered that my mash was actually at 134f-140f for 90 minutes (instead of 150f). Knowing that enzymes are very temp sensitive, I simply upped the temp for another 90 minutes - so my mash actually got a 3 hour tour. The aroma during brewing was almost overpowering. This mellowed in the fermentor but did not subside too much. Of course, mine was a heavily spiced ale (1oz pump pie spice in boil, 1oz at bottling), so the ale really does taste like pumpking pie. I used a brown ale malt recipe for the body of the brew, and the malt was nicely complimented by the pumpkin. Unfortunately, this was also the first time I used a header liquid before bottling. Later I discovered that my beer was almost completely flat. I don't know what caused this. Perhaps when the pumpking fell out in the secondary fermentor (this fallout was actually so heavy I had to switch to a tertiary fermentor after 4 days) it filtered the yeast out with it. It also could be something in the pumpkin pie filling (I now realize they have eggs in this, which would explain the egg odors mentioned by others). The beer tastes good, so I've been drinking it flat, but I've also been trying to find a way to kick start conditioning (I've added sugar to bottles and then recapped, which was a mess; I've dropped a little dried yeast into the bottles) nothing works. With all that in mind, I would suggest lenthening your mash times with pumpkin (if you're mashing your pumpkin separately). I think this was the thing that kept the pumpkin flavor in my batch. Just wanted to relay my experiences with you. byebye __________________________________________________________ If a story seems moral, do not believe it. If you don't care for obscenity, you don't care for the truth. Tim O'brien The Things They Carried __________________________________________________________ Kit Lemmonds klemmonds at aristotle.net Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 07:26:49 -0500 From: Donovan <dlambright at socketis.net> Subject: Refridgerators for temperature control I'm thinking very seriously of buying a small fridge to hold a carboy during fermentation. I know you can buy a thermostat with a probe to make the fridge maintain a temperature beyond it's normal range (55-70 degrees). Does it matter whether I get a fridge or freezer? I seem to recall reading once that a freezer works better with such a thermostat, but I can't find the citation where I think I read it. Any opinions or experience out there? Thanks. Donovan Lambright And I wonder, yes I wonder... dlambright at socketis.net Will Elvis take the place of Jesus in 1000 years? "A Growing Boy Needs His Lunch" by Dead Kennedys Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 16:17:54 +0200 (MET DST) From: Christian Guenther <t9e01bh at sunmail.lrz-muenchen.de> Subject: Re : EBC to SRM conversion Hi to everyone ! While reading this question about converting EBC colour units I found out that I have never heard of SRM or Lovibond units before.So know I'm also interested in this question.- Does anybody have more detailed information obout common used brewing units in USA ? As far as I'm concerned the EBC colour unit is defined as : C = 25 * E E : extinktion at 430 nm in a 10 mm kuevette mesuared against distilled water C : colour unit (Europeean Brewery Convention) One gets the best correlation between a wort sample from the malt and the colour of the beer when one boiles the mash sample before mesuaring the extinktion. So long prost, Christian Guenther Freising / Germany Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 03 Oct 97 10:14:00 est From: paa3983 at dpsc.dla.mil (Mike Spinelli) Subject: PACMAN yeast and Brewtek's CL-50 Cal Pub strain HBDers, Regarding Rogue's Pacman yeast, I have it on good (ie. PhD) authority that Brewer's Resource Brewtek CL-50 Cal Pub strain IS the Pacman strain. I've used it a bunch and like it. Mike Spinelli Cherry Hill NJ Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 10:30:34 -0400 From: "Alan McKay" <Alan.McKay.amckay at nt.com> Subject: Cooper loop in aluminum pot John Schnupp is having trouble with his copper loop. John, I've been using one of these things for about 2 years now. I drilled mine with a very small bit (1/16 or 1/32), with hole about every 1/4 inch. I have noticed that it only really works well with whole hops, and full volume boils. If your gravity gets extremely high as with partial-volume boils, the thing tends to clog. Similarly so if you are using hop pellets. But I almost never use pellets, and am extremely pleased with my copper loop. -Alan - -- Alan McKay Nortel Enterprise Networks Norstar / Companion / Monterey Operations PC Support Prime Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 10:48:53 -0500 From: Kit Anderson <kitridge at bigfoot.com> Subject: Belgian wheat yeast Greg Young asked; > Is there a difference between a > Belgian Wit and a Belgian Wheat? No. It is the same animal. The Wyeast yeast is OK but not the best for a wit abd it takes too long. I like the "breadiness" of the cultures from Yeast Labs and Brewer's Resource. I have kegged in a week with this stuff. It should be citrusy, not clovey. - -- Kit Anderson ICQ# 2242257 Bath, Maine kitridge at bigfoot.com Return to table of contents
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