HOMEBREW Digest #2534 Sat 18 October 1997

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Oxygenation (Jack Schmidling)
  Re:Cask-Conditioned ale (Jason Goldman)
  Re: enviro-friendly sanitation (Dion Hollenbeck)
  Re: Winning contests (Dion Hollenbeck)
  new club ("Bryan L. Gros")
  home brewery design ("Dulisse, Brian K [PRI]")
  Splitting Wort for Small-Vessel Boiling (KennyEddy)
  Re: EasyMasher vs. Phil's Phalse Bottom (and Al's new book) (brian_dixon)
  Looking for a Brew Buddy (Trent Neutgens)
  Re:  GABF, AHA and $$$ ("Brian M. Rezac")
  RE:Lagering in kegs ("Capt. Marc Battreall")
  World Beer Views (Brian S Kuhl)
  re: GABF (sort of...) ("Michel J. Brown")
  Riding the Foam (Charles Hudak)
  brewing and environment ("Bryan L. Gros")
  judging ("Bryan L. Gros")
  Oranges, Cardamom and Computer SNAFU's (nathan_l_kanous_ii)
  Re Science in Brewing (Mark and Marya Bolyanatz)
  Como se dice "Ale": A question to Spanish speaking brewers. (acarrasc)
  Metalurgical question... (Harlan Bauer)
  Lime as water treatment ("Grant W. Knechtel")
  re: 2L soda  bottles (haafbrau1)
  enviro-friendly sanitation (Tom_Williams)
  Cincinnati Brewpubs (dajohnson)
  Cyser and Braggot question (Chris Cooper)
  BrewPubbing in NY State ("Michael Gerholdt")
  Rock Bottom Cask Ale (Mark Tumarkin)
  Mashing at 40C (George J Fix)
  RE: 2L soda bottles ("Larry F. Byard")
  rye mashing questions (Jeff Sturman)
  When does one cease being "new" (Danny Breidenbach)
  None ("Andrew Avis")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 07:37:33 -0700 From: Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net> Subject: Oxygenation Before you all get carried away with the oxygenation magic again, I suggest the newcomers read my report on the subject. It is on my web page in the Application Notes section. Bottom line is, any reduction in the onset of fermentation time is vastly overwelmed by just increasing the pitching rate a modest amount. That is not to say that wort does not need oxygen but simply that just pouring or squirting it into the fermenter vigorously is all that needs to be done to satisfy the requirements. js - -- Visit our WEB pages: Beer Stuff.........http://ays.net/jsp Astronomy.......http://user.mc.net/arf ASTROPHOTO OF THE WEEK..... New Every Monday Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 08:29:52 -0600 (MDT) From: Jason Goldman <jason at rauch.cnd.hp.com> Subject: Re:Cask-Conditioned ale While I was doing the week o' GABF, I tried the cask-conditioned red ale at Rock Bottom. It wasn't bad, certainly no signs of infection when I drank it on Thursday afternoon. On the other hand, it wasn't the same as RealAle in England. In general, I think the beers here are, on average, bigger than those in England. Often, places here think that all they need to do is naturally (and very lightly) carbonate and that makes a good "cask-conditioned" ale. I think that there's more to it than that...the beers should really be designed for the cask. Also, about your experience with ESB at Pints, remember, sometimes the brewers aren't familiar with a style and so they put the wrong name on it. Last week, I was in Atlanta at the Atlanta Bier Gartenand I tried their Koelsch. It was a pleasant enough beer, but the caramel flavor and brown color were somewhat out of style;-). OTOH, Pints might have been confused. Jason jason at fc.hp.com Return to table of contents
Date: 14 Oct 1997 07:41:17 -0700 From: Dion Hollenbeck <hollen at vigra.com> Subject: Re: enviro-friendly sanitation >> dajohnson writes: dan> out of curiosity: My girlfriend and i are wondering what the most dan> effective and ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY sanitation method is. I dan> am currently using plain bleach and water. However, as an dan> environmental scientist, she wants to stop supporting the dan> chlorine industry altogether. I'm assuming that some sort of dan> no-rinse sanitation solution would be best, but are the chemicals dan> involved any better -- from an environmental standpoint -- than dan> chlorine? Can anybody definitely recommend a particular solution dan> (or 2)?? Thanks. Not definitely, but what about iodophor? Use it, put it in a bucket and it will disappear to plain water in a couple of days. Then dump it. dion Return to table of contents
Date: 14 Oct 1997 07:59:25 -0700 From: Dion Hollenbeck <hollen at vigra.com> Subject: Re: Winning contests >> Scott Kaczorowski writes: SK> Don Van V. says in HBD 2527 on winning contests: >> Brew it BIG and brew it hoppy. SK> I think this has been common 'wisdom' for those who've made a hobby SK> of winning competitions. However, I've recently been involved in SK> several competitions, the Pacific Brewers Cup being one, and IMO, SK> this is not necessarily the case and is dependant on the specific SK> competition. >> It wasn't a big surprised to me that a triple won the Pacific Cup >> recently. SK> I was very fortunate to have judged on the first round panel that SK> sent this beer to the BOS round (though I am unranked). This was SK> a BEAUTIFUL beer that deserved to win. To dismiss it without having SK> tasted it and it's competition is irresponsible. And I was on the BOS panel that gave it BOS, and I agree with Scott that it deserved it. Not because it was big, but because it was excellent and TO STYLE!!!! We eliminated most of the other 15 beers that went on to BOS round because they had minor flaws, and those flaws were "out of style" flaws. I was also fortunate to be on the BOS panel at last years GAZBF and the winning beer there was a Koelsch!!!! Yes, you heard me right. The reason the koelsch won BOS was that it was perfect! It had EVERY characteristic of a koelsch, even the vinuousness, and had NO FLAWS! It was everything the style says a koelsch should be. It literally jumped out of the glass and yelled "KOELSCH" at you. Out of the other 15 beers, we eliminated 8 almost right away with minute flaws. We spent the next 1/2 hour or so winnowing out 5 more, leaving us with koelsch, a prickly pear fruit mead and an Imperial Stout. Neither the stout or the mead were BIG for style. We ended up finding a very slight "out of style" with the stout and awarded the mead 1st runner up to the koelsch. There has been much discussion in JudgeNet Digest about "big beer backlash", so that judges are quite leery of awarding prizes to big beers and are very careful to score strictly according to style guidelines. But if you want to win ribbons, I do suggest that you go towards the top of the style guidelines. If your beer happens to be judged late in the flight and the judges are getting palate fatigue, being at the top end of the range will help out. But don't go outside the range, because many of us tend to slam beers quite heavily for being too malty or too hoppy for the style, about as bad points-wise as being infected. dion BJCP Certified judge Organizer 1997 America's Finest City Homebrew Competition Quality Ale and Fermentation Fraternity, Sponsor - --- Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164 Email: hollen at vigra.com http://www.vigra.com/~hollen Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs San Diego, California Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 15:28:09 -0700 From: "Bryan L. Gros" <gros at bigfoot.com> Subject: new club Doug Moyer (moyer-de at salem.ge.com) wrote:>Gentle collective, > Last night, a dozen of us gathered together to tentatively >approach the formation of a new homebrew club. Our closest >AHA-sanctioned clubs are over 150 miles away, so we are pretty much on >our own. HELP! Any advice would be greatly appreciated. If you've got a dozen people together to talk about beer, sounds like you've already got a club. So once you decide to formalize you're get togethers, come up with a mission and start advertising for new members. When I started a new club, I decided we needed a newsletter as a marketing tool. I sold ads in the newsletter to local businesses and got a mailing list from the brewing supply store. The ads were a whole or half page for $20. The money was just to cover copying and stamps for the 100 or so people we mailed to. Brewpubs had no problem with $20 a month for an ad directly to people who may be customers. Then you need only find a place to meet. Regular meetings (e.g. second saturday afternoon) at the same location each time help get people coming back. Good luck. - Bryan gros at bigfoot.com Oakland, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 11:52:14 -0400 From: "Dulisse, Brian K [PRI]" <BDulisse at prius.jnj.com> Subject: home brewery design i've at last joined the ranks of the landed gentry, and my wife has laid down the law: no more brewing in the kitchen. the good news is that she wants me to set up a dedicated brewery somewhere in the house, preferably in the basement. i have a couple of questions for folks who have put breweries into their basements: 1. how did you arrange the plumbing to get rid of waste water? i want to have a large sink for washing equipment/draining chiller water in the immediate vicinity of my setup . . . 2. how did you vent your system? i've seen a lot of system designs on various web pages, but i haven't seen any of them discuss these issues (but they're fun to read nonetheless . . .) fwiw, i'd like to have a system big enough to do 10 gallon batches, and i'm planning on hiring a contractor to run a natural gas line down to the basement to avoid the problems associated with propane. thanks bd Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 12:05:40 -0400 (EDT) From: KennyEddy at aol.com Subject: Splitting Wort for Small-Vessel Boiling Charley Burns asks about splitting wort boiling duties between two vessels: [My question]:Does he really need to split the _hops_ between two kettles? Can he get pretty much the same hop utilization and character by boiling all the hops in one kettle and just the left over 2-3 gallons of wort in the other kettle? That way he doesn't have to lose so much wort in the second kettle (half gallon each kettle instead of only 1/2 gallon). This is a good question, one that raises another, that perhaps the more chemistry-inclined HBDer's can address. My response would be that IF the hop chemicals are simply DISSOLVED in the wort, then hopping only one vessel should work. However, if the hop compounds BIND in some way with the wort constituents, or otherwise change the chemistry of the overall wort, then the effect of a split-wort boil could be different than hopping the entire batch. One other point that has been raised here before, but I'm not sure has been definitively resolved, is whether hop utilization is a function of the amount of hops used. In other words, does the presence of high amounts of hop essentials reduce the ability of more hop essentials to be extracted? This is relevent since you would effectively be doubling the hop rate in one of the vessels. ***** Ken Schwartz El Paso, TX KennyEddy at aol.com http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 97 09:32:20 -0700 From: brian_dixon at om.cv.hp.com Subject: Re: EasyMasher vs. Phil's Phalse Bottom (and Al's new book) >Brian writes: >>I highly recommend Phil's phalse bottom over the EZ-masher. Both are >>just fine. Zymurgy's tests consistently showed the Phil's phalse bottom >>returning 2 to 3 pts/lb/gal more extract, e.g. this amounts to an >>increase in efficiency of about 7%. > >Ahem... Al Korzonas' tests *published* in Zymurgy showed a Phil's >Phalse Bottom(tm) *in*consistently returning 0.3 pts/lb/gal more than >the EasyMasher(tm). Inconsistently, because I admitted this was a >single test... a single set of datapoints. The difference between the >best and worst (the grain bag in a bucket) systems was only about 3.5 >points and the difference between the PPB, EM, Pico and copper >manifold was less that that. The issue was the 1995 Special Issue >(the Great Grains issue). > >Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL >korz at xnet.com > >My new website (still under construction, but up-and-running): > http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ I stand humbly corrected! I misread the data and felt so wonderful about my Phil's Phalse bottom that couldn't help but recommend it! I guess zero point three is a bit less of a difference than just 'three'. Let's make that "zero point seven percent" difference in yield ... that's "in the noise"! Thanks, Al! BTW, a couple people have mentioned it, but rather indirectly, so I want to point it out clearly: Al Korzonas has published a book called "Homebrewing, Volume 1", and you can find it advertised (and instructions on making your purchase) on the web site listed in Al's signature above. Also, if anyone out there has been involved in publishing anything, let alone an entire book, they realize the huge effort that goes into it and the great difficulty in actually getting something to press. Al has made that effort and has successfully made it to press. I'm sure I'm not speaking only for myself when I say, as a homebrewer, that I personally appreciate Al's accomplishment(s). Thanks Al! Brian ....................................................................... Item Subject: WINMAIL.DAT Couldn't convert Microsoft Mail Message Data item to text at a gateway. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 12:06:35 -0500 From: Trent Neutgens <tneutgen at isd.net> Subject: Looking for a Brew Buddy Hello All, I am looking for someone in the Twin Cities, MN area that is in to all grain brewing. I have been extract brewing for almost 6 years now and I, like many others, am ready to make the jump to the all-grain thing. I have been doing as much research as the internet will allow and I think I have a good handle on things. Now, before I make to jump and start buying equipment I would love to see a setup first hand. It would be great if I could be someone on a Saturday and help out brewing a batch of Homebrew. If you are in the area and are thinking of making up a batch real soon I would love to hear from you. I could even supply some ingredients or some <gasp> Beer! No Homebrew for at least another month or so until the batch in my secondary is ready to drink. Thank you in advance for any help and also a big Thank You to the rest of the group for all the information I have received over the past years, it is truely appreciated!!! Sincerely, Trent Neutgens tneutgen at isd.net (612) 448-6564 *********************************** ***I've Never Met a Beer I Couldn't Beat*** *********************************** Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 11:22:54 -0600 From: "Brian M. Rezac" <brian at aob.org> Subject: Re: GABF, AHA and $$$ In HOMEBREW Digest #2528, Jeff Sturman wrote: > Subject: GABF, AHA and $$$ > > First, the GABF went up to $30/session this year. Jeff, since you do own your own business, I am certain that you are familiar with the economics law of "Supply & Demand". That is ONE of the major factors in the admission increase. There is a limited amount space in Currigan Hall which only allows us a fixed maximum capacity of people in the Hall at one time. (This is a Colorado Fire Code regulation.) I don't know if you were aware of the fact that on the Friday night session we was so close to capacity that the GABF security actually had to postpone admittance for a short period of time while the hall cleared out some. Even with the price increase, attendance records were still broken. Another reason is that the cost of running the GABF goes up every year. Currigan Hall's rental, hotel rates, security costs, etc.. - they all increase every year. > Then they won't replace a broken glass at the festival, but instead charge for a > new one, even though some drunk person bumped into me and made me drop > my glass. Last year, and years previous, they replaced broken glasses for free. I'm starting to see an undesirable pattern forming here. Seriously, ever since I started attending the GABF in 1992, the policy has been that each attendee is given one glass. I double checked this with the GABF Director, Nancy Johnson. She said that, for as long as she can remember, the policy has been not to replace the broken glass with another, but instead to replace it with a plastic cup. If you talked someone into giving you a glass in the past after you broke yours (or had it broken), your salesmanship skills are exemplary. Personally, I have tried and failed one year when my glass was stolen. Another note on the glasses is the "intentional groundings" that take place. (I am not putting you in this category.) I'm sure you can see that rearming those type of people would just be insane. > They outlawed backpacks/sacks last year but fortunately provided bags for > festival goers. The outlawing of backpacks is due to attendees attempting to smuggle beer out of Currigan Hall. The fact is we could lose our liquor permit if they do succeed. > This year they were too cheap to even provide bags. Wrong. We were handing out bags during all sessions. They did run out up front for a short period but were sending people back to the AHA booth for Zymurgy bags. We never ran out back there. I know that I personally gave bags (and some of our homebrew) to a few HBDers. > Now the latest issue of Zymurgy, the special issue, went up to $9.95 per > copy. Charlie must have built a big house... This is not an increase. This is the same price as last year, quarterly issues are $6.50 and special issues are $9.95. In addition, the 1997 HOPS Special Issue is excellent! Let me end on this note. The GABF can be a zoo and people come away from it with completely different experiences and perceptions. But, if any of you has a problem, complaint or suggestion related to the AOB/AHA, contact me, Jim Parker or Amahl Turczyn directly. We will do our best to get you the answers or work on solutions. - Brian Brian Rezac Administrator American Homebrewers Association (303) 447-0816 x 121 (voice) 736 Pearl Street (303) 447-2825 (fax) PO Box 1679 brian at aob.org (e-mail) Boulder, CO 80306-1679 info at aob.org (aob info) U.S.A. http://beertown.org (web) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 16:55:03 -0400 From: "Capt. Marc Battreall" <batman at reefnet.com> Subject: RE:Lagering in kegs Two folks wrote: > Why do all of this? Just remove the pressure relief valve from the >lid (mine are held on with a removeable nut), get a drilled rubber >stopper (don't know the number but the size that fits a bottle....you >probably already have one on hand) and insert it into the lid along with >the airlock. It's a whole lot easier. I thought of putting the airlock in the pressure relief valve hole, but I have 2 kinds of kegs. Those which the pressure relief valve is *not* removable, and those that the pressure relief valve nut is just barely holding on - the whole thing is pretty much cheesy, crumbling plastic. The fittings, on the other hand are stainless steel and can take dissasembly and re-assembly much better. I have am an even easier idea that has worked great for me.... just disconnect the CO2 end of the tube from the keg leaving the gas side connected and place the tube into a small jar of sanitized water. Pretty much the same method ou would use on a fermenter blow off set up. That way, any pressure that builds is relived and it still maintains a sanitized environment.....pretty simple!! Have Fun! Marc - -- Capt. Marc D. Battreall batman at reefnet.com \\\ /// (o o) =====oOO==(_)==OOo===== Beer is proof that there is a God Ben Franklin Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 97 15:16:00 PDT From: Brian S Kuhl <Brian_S_Kuhl at ccm.fm.intel.com> Subject: World Beer Views HBD'er Writes in part... I am a USA citizen living in the USA who couldn't agree more wholeheartedly. I get almighty sick of only seeing USA-related stuff (not just here, but everywhere). I personally DESIRE, APPRECIATE, and CELEBRATE the diversity that is available and wish we had MORE (beer?)! This forum is open to all. If others, including those in other countries, fail to participate, the point is moot. Besides, I have read many posts from Australia, Canada, UK. Maybe you can be more specific as to what country you would like to get information from. I'm sure there listening! :) Brian Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 15:26:33 -0800 From: "Michel J. Brown" <homemade at spiritone.com> Subject: re: GABF (sort of...) >Did anyone go to the Rock Bottom Brewery, and try their Cask >Conditioned Ale? Well, if its in line with the rest of their malarky that they try to pass off as a micro brew pub, then I'm not at all surprised. They are without honor, and I do not trust them! >It is their Red Ale (I don't remember the name). I tried one, and I >couldn't drink it. Maybe the cask had been there too long, but it was >bad. Well, that goes along with their service, and their attitude. Reminds me of LABC... >They tried to tell me it was fine, but I'm afraid I've had too many real >ales in the UK to buy into that. Well what do you expect from liars and cheaters? Just goes with the territory IMHO. >The Pints Pub has their own Cask Conditioned Ale that was an E.S.B. >I ordered one, and thought I got a Porter!! It was so dark you couldn't >see through it, and it had the complex flavor structure of a Porter. Ever since the bean counting suits got into brew pubs for the profit, this has been the result: too many innovations based upon ignorance of the facts, and names used to beguile the public into accepting their dictum as proof of their "superior" product. >Although it was fresh and served properly, I never would have thought it >was an E.S.B. Honestly, if I had just been served this beer as a blind >sample, I would have thought I was drinking a Porter. These new profit oriented brew pubs (nothing against money, just don't think profit should be the namesake of quality) know next to nothing of style, as they are geared more towards making a fast buck rather than turning out a quality product. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of good brew pubs out there, but there's also an alarming trend towards self defined beers based upon marketing strategies without style substantiation to go along with it. >Are the guidlines *really* that broad for an E.S.B.? I thought gold to >copper with 14 SRM being the upper end of the scale was the range for an >E.S.B. (At least that's how the one *I* just brewed looks!!!) That may well be the reasonable approach, but you're assuming that truth in labeling laws apply to products on premises. There needs to be an industry watchdog that can take to task those who are less than honest about the brews they produce. Then again, it could just as well be the industry too, remember those ads in the trade journals that tout "ale in seven days, lager in twenty-one"? Or my favorite -- "no special training required; turnkey systems for non-brewing or non-technical people". With help like this from the industry, who needs enemies?!?!? Dr. Michel J. Brown, D.C. homemade at spiritone.com http://www.spiritone.com/~homemade/index.html "Big Man don't drink no stinking light beer!" "Big Man drink beer what got BIG TASTE!" Big Man Brewing (R) 1996 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 16:31:01 -0700 From: Charles Hudak <cwhudak at gemini.adnc.com> Subject: Riding the Foam Dave Wrote: >Finally, a question: I ozygenated using an aquarium stone, and found that >the fine bubbles it produced quickly overran my 6 1/2 gal carboy with foam. > I figured fine bubbles would be more efficient in oxygenation than course >bubbles, but I'm not sure how to overcome this foaming for long enough to >get the oxygenation completed. Any suggestions? I've found that if you pitch the yeast before you start aerating, that the wort foams up quite a bit more. I use a similar setup and I aerate for 30-40 minutes with no problem (foaming, that is). I pitch my yeast after the aeration is finished. Give that a try. Charles Hudak Charles Hudak cwhudak at adnc.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 17:00:09 -0700 From: "Bryan L. Gros" <gros at bigfoot.com> Subject: brewing and environment dan johnson wrote: > out of curiosity: My girlfriend and i are wondering what the most > effective and ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY sanitation method is. I am > currently using plain bleach and water. However, as an environmental > scientist, she wants to stop supporting the chlorine industry > altogether. I'm assuming that some sort of no-rinse sanitation > solution would be best, but are the chemicals involved any better -- > from an environmental standpoint -- than chlorine? Can anybody > definitely recommend a particular solution (or 2)?? Thanks. along these lines, is iodophor bad for plants? should I be worried about pouring old iodophor water in my garden or yard? - Bryan gros at bigfoot.com Oakland, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 17:09:42 -0700 From: "Bryan L. Gros" <gros at bigfoot.com> Subject: judging Scott Kaczorowski <kacz at nfs.aisf.com> wrote: >Don Van V. says in HBD 2527 on winning contests: > >> Brew it BIG and brew it hoppy. > >I think this has been common 'wisdom' for those who've made a hobby >of winning competitions. However, I've recently been involved in >several competitions, the Pacific Brewers Cup being one, and IMO, >this is not necessarily the case and is dependant on the specific >competition. I think a lot of judges, especially those on HBD and judge digest have really been watching themselves and trying to prevent this particular problem in judging lately. Not to the extent of reverse discrimination, but being aware of the potential for a bigger beer to grab your attention and ensuring that it is not out of style. If it gets a high score, ensuring that it deserves that high score. At least I've been trying to keep this in mind when judging. And remember that if you think your beer was poorly judged and the feedback provided was not worthwhile, be sure to notify the competition organizer and/or the judge. I'm sure the majority of judges would appreciate the feedback. (I can't wait for a note like "How could you possibly give my porter best of show!?!? That was a 1.080 beer!!!") - Bryan gros at bigfoot.com Oakland, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 22:35:06 -0400 From: nathan_l_kanous_ii at ferris.edu Subject: Oranges, Cardamom and Computer SNAFU's I recently posted the possibility of using cardamom as an ingredient to provide orange flavor in a beer. Some kind hombrewer sent me some feedback on my response and I mistakenly deleted the response during a computer upgrade today. If possible, would that kind soul please re-send their response to me? TIA Nathan in Frankenmuth MI Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 19:37:55 -0700 From: Mark and Marya Bolyanatz <mbolyana at slonet.org> Subject: Re Science in Brewing This may be a little dated 'cuz I'm very behind on me E-Mail. Aaron A Sepanski stated that he was a chemist and that he thought that even though brewing was a science, persons with no chemistry background could still brew good beer. As I have been employed as a chemist for the past 10 years, I feel that brewing good beer is at least 50% art. Just as in tuning a Mass Spectrometer, it is the Chemist's experience and wisdom that ultimatly determines the quality of the job. Murdoc - -- Murdoc Brewing Co. Best and most awarded Brewery in SLO Return to table of contents
Date: 14 Oct 97 07:57:34 -0400 From: acarrasc at reacciun.ve Subject: Como se dice "Ale": A question to Spanish speaking brewers. Salud amigos! Discussing the introduction of new (at least to our market) beer styles, a rather stubborn language purist friend of mine said to me that being beer almost as old as civilization, and being that the oldest yeast strains evolved to give us the Ale style, there must be a Spanish (old enough language), true Castellan word to name it. In doubt, I consulted the main spanish dictionary, the "Diccionario de la Real Academia Espa=F1ola de la Lengua", but found no reference. Do any of you Spanish speaking brewers happen to know the Spanish translation of "Ale"? Hector Landaeta Caracas, Venezuela. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 22:39:43 -0500 From: blacksab at midwest.net (Harlan Bauer) Subject: Metalurgical question... I'm rebuilding my brewery (again) and I'm wondering whether I'm going to encounter any problems by having a SS coupling welded to the bottom of my hot liquor tank (it's a budwizer keg)? Specifically, since I'm going to be heating the tank externally with a gas-fired burner, is the area around the weld (which will be in the direct line of fire) going to be succeptable to corrosion or cracking? My reason for wanting to place a coupling on the bottom is so I can completely drain the kettle for cleaning without having to tip the thing over into the sink--just run a hose from the coupling to the floor drain and hose the thing clean. Now before someone asks why I would need to clean the HL tank so well, it's because I'm considering doing the same thing to both my mash tun and boiling kettle for the same reason. I've got a hose, and I've got a floor drain, and I'm sick and tired of lifting the kettle into the sink. So far I haven't broken the glass level-guage on my boiling kettle yet, but it's just a matter of time... ;-) TIA, Harlan Harlan Bauer ...malt does more than Milton can Carbondale, IL To justify God's ways to man. <blacksab at midwest.net> --A.E. Houseman Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 22:07:03 -0700 From: "Grant W. Knechtel" <GWK at hartcrowser.com> Subject: Lime as water treatment I saw pickling lime in the canning department of the local supermarket the other day. Pretty cheap, they also had non-iodized salt. I assume this is slaked lime, Ca(OH)2 and not CaO, as dead-burned lime would very dangerous for home use. I don't recall having seen lime mentioned as a part of brewing water treatment recipes in the beginning books I've seen. Is there a good reason for this? I realize it would be pretty alkaline, but might be useful for those of us with very soft water making dark all-grain beers. Comments or caveats? Private email OK, I'll summarize if enough interest is generated. -Grant Neue Des Moines Hausbrauerei Des Moines, Washington Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 06:04:51 -0400 From: haafbrau1 at juno.com Subject: re: 2L soda bottles I use 1-2 L Seltzer bottles. I eliminates the odor problem that I had difficulty beating, plus my wife and I drink alot of seltzer water. Just my 2 cents (plain) :-) . Paul Haaf haafbrau1 at juno.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 21:45:30 -0400 From: Tom_Williams at cabot-corp.com Subject: enviro-friendly sanitation Dan Johnson asks about alternatives to bleach sanitation.... Dan - the answer is iodine. All (at least all in Atlanta) brewing suppliers carry it. I believe it works faster, is more effective than bleach, and doesn't require a lot of rinsing. But for me the biggest advantage by far is that I can't stand the smell of bleach. Try it; you'll like it. Cheers, Tom Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 97 08:45:14 -0500 From: dajohnson at mail.biosis.org Subject: Cincinnati Brewpubs Hello all, It seems to me this question was asked quite recently, but i don't think it received any replies (at least not on the HBD itself). Can anybody recommend any brewpubs in the Cincinnati area? Thanks, dan johnson Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 09:25:39 -0400 From: Chris Cooper <ccooper at a2607cc.msr.hp.com> Subject: Cyser and Braggot question Greetings all! It is fall and I just went to the local cider mill, ah the aroma of fresh doughnuts and cider! Now on to a brewing question. As I was fighting a honey bee for the right to drink my cider alone I though of making a batch of cyser and maybe a braggot. I did some research when I got home, I have Charlie P's Mead book and another mead text and they both mentioned using "camden" (sp?) tablets before pitching the yeast. I guess the idea here is that the "camden" will kill any nasties in the cider without having to boil it (avoiding pectin haze problems latter on). I decided to make a cyser first, I boiled and cooled the honey and added it to the cider in the carboy along with 10 of the "camden" tablets, this set for about 30 hours with only a paper towel over the opening. Next I pitched a 1qt. healthy yeast starter, it's been 24 hours and I see nada, zip, nothing happening. Any ideas? Did I forget something, doesn't "camden" kill bacteria and organics and if it does wouldn't this be bad for the yeast? This is my first time to try any type of mead and I'm not worried but curious about the above procedure and would appreciate more info. Part two of this adventure will be the making of the Braggot, as there will be no fruit content in this brew I will simply follow normal brewing procedures with the addittion of the Honey to the boil. My question here is should the honey be added for the full boil or for only the last 15-30 minutes (just enough to kill off any wild yeasts and bacteria). If included for the full boil (60-90 minutes) would it have any effect on the hops utilization? TIA 8^) Chris_Cooper at hp.com Pine Haven Brewery (aka. Debbi's kitchen) "If ya don't know where you're going, how will ya know if you're there?" Chris Cooper , Commerce Michigan --> Pine Haven Brewery <-- Chris_Cooper at hp.com --> aka. Deb's Kitchen <-- Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 10:02:19 -0400 From: "Michael Gerholdt" <gerholdt at ait.fredonia.edu> Subject: BrewPubbing in NY State Question: Does anyone here know re: New York State laws and codes - If one has a restaurant/bar, are there additional permits necessary to serve beer which has been brewed and fermented exclusively on the premise? Or is the existing alcohol permit sufficient? Thanks, Michael Gerholdt Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 10:15:26 -0400 From: Mark Tumarkin <tumarkin at mindspring.com> Subject: Rock Bottom Cask Ale Darrel Garton writes: >I have 2 questions regarding Brewpubs in Denver that may have been >visited during the GABF by some HBD'ers. I was there the week before, >teaching a seminar, and couldn't get back up for the GABF, but at least >I beat the crowds!!! >1. Did anyone go to the Rock Bottom Brewery, and try their Cask >Conditioned Ale? It is their Red Ale (I don't remember the name). I >tried one, and I couldn't drink it. Maybe the cask had been there too >long, but it was bad. If that was the problem, after enough people >tried it, they would have gotten into a fresh cask and it would have >maybe been OK. Did anyone else try this beer? Did you try it early or >late in the week? What did you you think? They tried to tell me it was Lfine, but I'm afraid I've had too many real ales in the UK to buy into >that. I went to the Rock Bottom on Thursday right after I checked into my hotel. I needed to warm up for the GABF (never do strenuous exercise without warming up first). It was the closest brew pub to the hotel so the choice was a no-brainer. I met up with one of the members of my brew club. He was sitting with John ?? of Liquid Bread. It just so happens that they were drinking the cask conditioned ale, so I ordered a pint as well. It was not very impressive. Not a bad beer, but not one I would reorder. It seemed to be popular, so I assume that it wasn't an old keg. The next pint was their bourbon stout. This was a good, flavorful stout that was conditioned in an old bourbon keg. It picked up a nice, rich flavor from the keg. This was an outstanding beer. One that I will remember for a long time. It was definatly worth reordering but starting timer for the GABF was approaching and I could hear all those hundreds of other beers calling my name. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 97 09:59:04 -0500 From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix) Subject: Mashing at 40C In reference to a beer Alexander (or presumably someone else) made using a rest at 40C, he comments on phenolic off flavors that he attributes to the mash: >I >think that this is pretty close to what I have tasted in some ales and I >don't care for it. I have using the 40-60-70 system for the last three years, and entered numerous competitions in that period with literally of hundred of score sheets that came from the same. Many of the judges are people on this network. Not a single evaluation even mentions the term phenolic. I repeat my earlier advise. If you are picking up off flavors like those I would pay a good deal more attention to the yeast you are using. Cheers. George Fix Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 10:57:34 -0400 From: "Larry F. Byard" <lbyard at gwi.net> Subject: RE: 2L soda bottles I've been using plastic soda bottles to bottle beer for about a year and they work well; they are certainly easier to fill than many 12 oz. glass bottles. To clean them, fill a sink with hot water to a depth about twice the diameter of one of the bottles, add a few squirts of antibacterial hand cleaning soap and a dash or so of chlorine to the water, throw in all of the tops and let them soak (be careful not to let them go down the drain when emptying the sink), set the bottles on their sides and fill them about 1/3 full, apply the tops, shake well, let them sit to the side of the sink for 10 minutes, empty the bottles, and rinse three times (or until you don't see suds) with hot water by filling them about 1/2 full from the tap with hot water. Also, rinse-out the bottles two or three times with hot water immediately after consumption (soda or beer). Additionally, I occasionally use 3 liter bottles. When bottling, I usually fill some 12 oz bottles to sample the batch and for longer term storage. Larry Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 10:39:01 -0700 From: brewshop at coffey.com (Jeff Sturman) Subject: rye mashing questions I've got a question for anyone who has brewed with flaked rye. Last Monday I made a first attempt at a rye beer using 5# US 6 row, 3# US 2 row and 3# flaked rye, with 14 oz. of rice hulls added to loosen the mash. After a painfully slow sparge I emptied the mash tun and I found quite a bit of thick, pasty, sticky brown gunk stuck to the sides of the mash tun and all over the false bottom. This gunk was *very* sweet, which I'm sure is not a good sign. And my efficiency was below par at about 24 pt/#/gal. Is this paste normal in a rye mash? I'm sure I lost quite a bit of sugar in this paste. How can I overcome this problem in the next mash? I also had to recirculate about 2 gallons of first runnings before the wort even approached being clear. The first 2 gallons were quite milky. Is this also normal? Procedures: I mashed-in at 134 F, rested 25 minutes, pulled 5 quart decoction which rested at 155 F for 20 minutes, then boiled the decoction for 5 minutes and returned the decoction for a mash rest at 156 F for 75 minutes. Sparge lasted 85 minutes and yielded 24 pt/#/gal. My normal sparges last 45 to 60 minutes and yield 27 to 30 pt/#/gal. Any and all help appreciated! jeff casper, wy Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 12:38:10 -0400 From: Danny Breidenbach <dbreidenbach at nctm.org> Subject: When does one cease being "new" I've seen folks on the HBD proclaim to be "new" to homebrewing and then mention anywhere from two to thirty batched under their belt. I guess "new" is a state of mind ... after my twenty-six batches, I insist I am not "new." True, there are many, many people with greater experience, but I still say I'm not "new" to the hobby. Be bold -- as soon as you can make beer you like to drink -- proclaim yourself seasoned! And to Bill Macher ---> I always choose something unfiltered when I can. I like murky beer --- makes you wonder what kind of goodies are swimming about. :-) - --Danny Boy Return to table of contents
Date: 15 Oct 1997 10:01:24 -0600 From: "Andrew Avis" <Andrew.Avis.0519423 at nt.com> Subject: None Subject: Time: 9:53 = AM OFFICE MEMO None Date: = 10/15/97 Al writes: >I don't see why he would lose 1/2 gallon twice. The losses in the = kettle >are due to wort trapped in the break and hops. Granted, there might be >less break in the unhopped kettle (because hop tannins contribute to >break formation), but losses to hops will be half as much in each kettle >if you split the hops, no? I split my boil between 2 18 L pots, split the hops, and lose just over = one litre of wort (I know this because I measured it on Sunday). I split = the hops because I collect runnings in one pot, put it on to boil, and = then continue with the second pot. This means that the specific gravity = is much higher in the first pot, which I suspect affects hop utilization. = I hope that by splitting the hops, I get an average utilization similar = to what I would get with a single large pot. Actually, it seems that the = utilization is about 10 - 15% less what it should be (from tasting the = final beer compared to what Suds says it should be). I also understand = that hops help precipitate the hot break, another reason to have at least = 1 hop addition in each pot. Regarding the 1 litre of lost wort: I squeeze it out of the hops into a = large glass jar and let the trub settle out. I then pour it back into a = pot, add 1 C of water, boil it for 20 min, and then can it in two boiled = 500 ml mason jars. Works great for starters. Drew Calgary Return to table of contents
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