HOMEBREW Digest #2561 Wed 19 November 1997

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Belgian Yeast (Al Korzonas)
  1998 Bay Area Brew Off Competition Announcement ("Bryan L. Gros")
  Freezer Temperature Controllers (John Wilkinson)
  CO2 (Tom Clark)
  Wyeast Question - Anyone to Answer?? (Fred and Sue Nolke)
  Brass Ball Valve Help (orion)
  Request for source of a very large number of Cornelius kegs (Mark Dodgson)
  RE.  Yeast Slant Prep (Clifton Moore)
  Cost Justification (Fred Kingston)
  Yeast Question: What am I observing ? (Rich Miani)
  RE: Wyeast lager strains (fermentation at higher temps) ("Arnold J. Neitzke")
  What price for happiness? ("Keith Royster")
  re:Justifying Beer Making (Denis Barsalo)
  re: Justifying Beer Making (MIS, SalemVA)"
  So when DOES lag time end?? (macher)
  Justifying Beer Making ("Paul A. Hausman")
  Re: Replacement parts for fasch-frich tap (Mark Warrington)
  New Glarus Spotted Cow Ale (Jeff Renner)
  re: boiled grains and corn sugar, no chilling required (Charley Burns)
  Yeasties: reusing the wee beasties ("James L. Spies")
  Re: simple sparging tip (Alan Edwards)
  Preserved Cider,Overflow infection ("David R. Burley")
  Parti-gyle (Loren Crow)
  Top Five Ways to Justify Home Brewing ("Rosenzweig,Steve")
  Re: Justifying Beer Making (Scott Kaczorowski)
  Brewing Expenses / Tupperware Channeling (KennyEddy)
  re:  simple sparging tip (Scott Kaczorowski)
  RE: Correction!!!--Wyeast Lager strains and higher fermentation t (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Homegrown hops (Edward J. Basgall)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 16:55:32 -0600 (CST) From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> Subject: Belgian Yeast Mark writes: >Well, I have a rather high placed informant in Belgium (he's Belgian >Royalty) and he informed me that the yeast on the bottom of all those >bottles is not the yeast used to brew the beer with, but another yeast >they add in. I'd trust brewers before I trusted royalty, but I happen to know for a fact that Chimay, Westmalle, De Dolle Brouwers, DuPont, Achouffe, are five examples (off the top of my head) of breweries in which the yeast in the bottles is actually the fermentation yeast. Cantillon's lambics are not filtered nor are the Boon Marriage Parfait, Oud Beersel, Drie Fonteinen or Giradin, which means that you can revive *some* of the microbiota from the fermentations (many are killed by alcohol and pH). > Sort of like the yeast on the bottom of New Belgium's >Belgian style beers is actually Fat Tire yeast, not their Belgian >strain.... Ahh, *now* it is, but pre-1994 (I believe) New Belgium's Trippel [sic] and Abbey Ale *were* indeed bottled with the fermentation strain (this is from the brewmaster's talk at the Denver AHA Conference) and I happen to still have a bottle of Abbey Ale with the primary fermentation yeast in the bottle. Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com My new website (still under construction, but up-and-running): http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 15:05:56 -0800 From: "Bryan L. Gros" <gros at bigfoot.com> Subject: 1998 Bay Area Brew Off Competition Announcement Announcing the 12th annual National Bay Area Brew Off. Entries accepted Jan 10 to Jan 24. Judging Feb.7 in the HopYard in Pleasanton, CA. $6 per entry. We're awarding prizes in the following eight categories: American Pale Ales (Am. Pale Ale, Am. Amber Ale) English Pale Ales (Bitters, IPA) Dark Lagers (Fest/Marzen, Bock, Dunkel, Schwartz) Stout Porter Holiday (fruit and spiced beers) Barleywine/WheatWine. Mead With your entry, please specify which style (e.g. dry stout) your beer is, what kind of mead you have, or what special ingredients you've used. One entry per category per brewer. See the web page for complete details: http://www.dnai.com/~thor/dboard/babo98.htm or email me at gros at bigfoot.com. Stewards and judges should also contact me. - Bryan Gros Competition Organizer. Visit the Draught Board Web Site: http://www.dnai.com/~thor/dboard/ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 97 18:38:12 CST From: jwilkins at wss.dsccc.com (John Wilkinson) Subject: Freezer Temperature Controllers Michael Willits asked about temp controllers that could control heat as well as refrigeration. Brewer's Resource sells a temp controller that will switch either way for US$109.90, according to their catalog. Their number is(800) 827-3983. I have no connection to them and in fact put together my own for about US$50. I bought a SPST that switches on on rising temp and a SPDT that switches both ways. I run a hot lead to the SPDT common, a lead from the rising terminal of the SPDT to the SPST and from the switched side of the SPST to the hot lead of the refrigerator thermostat, which is turned to full cold. The lead from the falling terminal of the SPDT goes to a heat source. The SPDT is set to the lowest temperature I desire and the SPST is set to the highest. I could have used just the SPDT with the rising side going to the thermostat and the falling side going to the heat source but then the refrigerator would have been either cooling or being heated. In order to have a differential between the two I used the two controllers. I don't know if the Brewer's Resource controller allows this or not. For a heat source I use the light in the refrigerator. In the case of a freezer or refrigerator that does not have an easily accessible thermostat for interrupting the hot lead to, an extension cord can be used with the refrigerator/freezer plugged into the switched female end from the SPST and another female end added to the falling side of the SPDT. Don't do this unless you are very comfortable with working with wiring. I won't go into how to do it because if it is not obvious you probably shouldn't try it. In fact, if you are uncomfortable with either method, don't do it. I bought my controllers, Johnson Controls I think, from Grainger for about US$25 apiece. By the way SPDT is Single Pole Double Throw, meaning it will switch a single current source to one of two terminals. SPST is Single Pole Single Throw, meaning it will switch a single current source on or off. I can't be responsible for anyone who fries himself or others trying this. John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkns at wss.dsccc.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 19:48:33 -0500 From: Tom Clark <rtclark at eurekanet.com> Subject: CO2 Has anybody tried this? Connect a piece of tubing from the air lock on top of the primary fermenter and run it over into the empty carboy. By the time primary fermentation is pretty much over and it is time to rack the brew to the carboy, the carboy should be full of CO2. Right? Are the risks of infection significant? I have a section of surgical tubing available. Would it be appropriate? Can surgical tubing be boiled to sanitize it? Normally, I wait until just before I rack to sanitize the carboy. This way the empty carboy would be relatively open for a day or two. However, we could rig an airlock of some sort that would allow CO2 in but limit any external air from getting in by keeping a slightly positive pressure in the carboy. What is the thinking??? Thanks for sharing your experiences, even if they may have been a bit embarassing at the time. We can all learn something from each other. Tom Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 17:25:18 -0900 From: Fred and Sue Nolke <fnolkepp at corecom.net> Subject: Wyeast Question - Anyone to Answer?? Have a question about Wyeast 1338 being a very different yeast than it was a few months ago. Wyeast seems to have an unlisted phone number. At 68F the new 1338 takes at least a week to primary, old one did it in 3 or 4 days. Old one had famous "rocky" kreusen, new one is greasy and never collapses. Old one generated bullet proof beer stone on carboys, new one disappeared during cold water prewash. At 68F ambient old one was exothermic to 73F, new couldn't get above 69F. Is it some kind of infection in the smack pack, a mislabeling, did they run out of the original strain, purposely substitute? Who knows? But I do worry when a major supplier goes to that length to avoid talking to their customers. Fred Nolke Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 21:44:31 -0500 From: orion at mdc.net Subject: Brass Ball Valve Help On Sunday, November 16th, Richard Johnson asked about installing a brass Ball Valve: "I wish to install a brass ball valve in my brewpot. I went to a plumbing supply and the clerk told me the heat from my propane cooker would melt the nylon fitting inside the valve. I know this can be done I've seen them. I need tips on how to do this. Also do I weld it on or is there one I can screw in with gaskets that can take the heat?" My brewing buddy, Andy Q, converted a keg for us to brew in. The very first batch convinced us that we needed an easier way to empty it. He installed a brass ball valve thusly: He welded a 6 inch stainless steel nipple to the outside of the keg, just above the floor of the keg (very little tipping is needed to completely drain the keg.) Then, we screwed the ball valve to the nipple, and installed a short nipple to that, so we could attach a drain hose. The burner stand allows the keg to sit right on top, and that in conjunction with the ring around the bottom of the keg, keeps all the real nasty heat on the bottom of the keg. The ball valve sees only the heat of the wort (boiling temperature). We have been using this for well over a year, and NO leaking seems to be occuring. It is as tight as it was when new. Happy brewing! Orville Deutchman orion at mdc.net Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 00:05:49 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Dodgson <mjdodgson at rocketmail.com> Subject: Request for source of a very large number of Cornelius kegs Hi The following request is on behalf of John Preston, my local homebrew shop owner in Melbourne, Australia: - ----------------------------------- Dear Sir/Madam We are a wholesale and retail home brewing supplier in Australia. We are interested in purchasing second hand stainless steel post mix kegs of approximately 5 US gallons. We would be interested in purchasing an 8' x 8' x 40' container load which we believe would hold about 1500 kegs. If you have access to the above would you please advise firstly an approximate unit cost per keg, and we can get into details of transport cost etc at a later date. I look forward to hearing from you as soon as possible. Cheers John Preston - --------------------------------- If you are able to help, please contact John through either of the following: Email: shb at yarranet.net.au Web: http://yarranet.net.au/shb/ Phone: +61 03 93173483 By the way, tomorrow's the second of my double brew days. I'm going to brew 2 10 gallon all grain batches, one of wit beer, and the other of fruit ale. 12 hours is a damn long brew day though. Bye === Mark Dodgson email:mjdodgson at rocketmail.com http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/2609 __________________________________________________________________ Sent by Yahoo! Mail. Get your free e-mail at http://mail.yahoo.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 01:06:43 -0800 From: Clifton Moore <cmoore at gi.alaska.edu> Subject: RE. Yeast Slant Prep <fontfamily><param>Times</param><bigger><bigger><bigger>>What about re-using the agar that is left over from a used plate/slant >afterwards? What I mean is, after you have plated out a strain and >either transferred it to a slant or starter, why not pressure cook that >agar/wort thats left in the plate? I have done exactly as you describe with my yeast slants. It just didn't seem to work out as well as I had hoped, and I found a cheep source of agar at a local oriental grocery, so I quit doing it. With fresh wort and agar I can accurately predict the moisture and nutrient component in my slants. Then there might have been some by-products of yeast growth other than the nutrient rich yeast bodies that have offered up their nutrients during pressure cooking. They just didn't work as well. Clif </bigger></bigger></bigger></fontfamily> Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 05:11:02 -0500 From: Fred Kingston <Fred at KingstonCo.com> Subject: Cost Justification Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 07:57:04 -0700 From: "Lee, Ken" <KLee at resdata.com> Subject: Justifying Beer Making Ken Lee writes... >>I wanted to know how others that read this digest, can justify the >>expense to their spouses? >>The two biggest complaints I get are: When is the expense >>going to stop? The other is the amount of time it takes to brew using >>all-grain. You could tell your spouse that you've given great thought to changing hobbys... however, you'd like her input first. (Women always like the thoughtful, sensative approach) Explain that you've given consideration to becoming a race car driver, but you're torn between leaving her all alone all weekend and a weekend's worth of fuel and tires is only $1000.00... or spending 5 or 6 hours every other weekend to brew a pot of beer for $20.00... Tell her... which ever decision she makes... you're willing to live with it... :) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 07:43:56 -0500 From: Rich Miani <miani at hudsontg.com> Subject: Yeast Question: What am I observing ? Hi folks, I saw something interesting when I looked at a yeast starter I had made 2 days ago.... I've never seen it before but that could be just a lack of observation on my part... the layer on the bottom of the bottle was "erupting" in slow motion like many small volcano's. Small plumes would stretch out upwards then break off and rise to the top. What process was I observing ? If it was fermentation, I've never seen it happen like that in the carboy. Anyway, just curious. Rich p.s. it was Wyeast Ale #1968, and it was at room temperature. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 07:19:36 -0500 (EST) From: "Arnold J. Neitzke" <neitzkea at frc.com> Subject: RE: Wyeast lager strains (fermentation at higher temps) On Mon, 17 Nov 1997, Riedel, Dave wrote: [SNIP] > > Mark pointed out that placing the carboy directly on the concrete floor > and up against the concrete walls in the corner of the basement should > help get things 5F or so cooler. [SNIP] You may want to take this one step further, put the carboy on the floor and against the basement wall and build a simple box around it to keep the warmer "house" air away from the carboy. > > cheers, > Dave Riedel, Victoria, BC, Canada > > > ------------------------------ > _________________________________________________________________________ Arnold J. Neitzke Internet Mail: neitzkea at frc.com Engineer, Application Product Development Voice: (248)377-7128 FANUC Robotics North America, Inc. FAX: (248)377-7363 3900 W. Hamlin Road Rochester Hills, MI 48309-3253 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 08:00:04 +0500 From: "Keith Royster" <keith at ays.net> Subject: What price for happiness? Ken Lee <KLee at resdata.com> asks how he can justify the time and expense of homebrewing to his wife. Ken, its a hobby, not a business (for most of us at least). The justification, therefore, is simply that you enjoy it and it makes you happy. It's relaxing, meditative, interesting, fun, educational, and provides a deep sense of satisfaction when your friends like your beer. If it makes you happy (and remains within your budget) then it should make your wife happy. > I seem to have made the mistake of telling my wife all the money I > would save by making my own been at home This is a common mistake. Best advice here is to stop trying to hide behind the lie, admit you were wrong, and go back to the points made above. Keith Royster - Mooresville/Charlotte, North Carolina email: keith at ays.net http://www.ays.net/brewmasters -Carolina BrewMasters club page http://www.ays.net/RIMS -My RIMS (rated COOL! by the Brewery) http://www.ays.net/movingbrews -pumps and accessories for advanced homebrewers Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 08:41:56 -0500 From: Denis Barsalo <denisb at CAM.ORG> Subject: re:Justifying Beer Making In HBD #2560, Ken Lee is trying to find a way to "justify" his all-grain set-up expenses to his significant other. I've had very similar problems, and I'm also starting to upgrade ($$) my set-up to brew 10 gal batches. My usual answer to anyone who second-guesses my brewing is: "It's *my hobby*, and I enjoy doing this, regardless of the expense!! I don't brew my own to save money, I brew my own because I enjoy the process, and I enjoy the results." I'm always happiest on brew day, which often goes something like yours. (9-5) BTW, a "recycled" stainless-steel keg is definitely the cheaper way to go when your looking for a bigger brew pot! Actually, I'm in the process of "acquiring" another two to use as a mash/lauter tun and HLT. Denis Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 08:47:55 -0500 From: "Moyer, Douglas E (MIS, SalemVA)" Subject: re: Justifying Beer Making Ken Lee asks: "I wanted to know how others that read this digest, can justify the expense to their spouses?" My wife and I justify equipment costs as follows: the cost of the ingredients vs. the cost of the micros that I would otherwise purchase is the _savings_ in our "food" budget. The cost of the equipment and the time I spend are part of my _hobby_. As has been discussed quite often recently, this hobby allows all levels of participation. And, like any hobby, all levels of financial investment. By breaking it down this way, the discussion is separated into groceries and hobby. If I decide to spend $12 on some exotic honey to add as an adjunct to my beer, my wife can (perhaps reasonably) argue that the beer I make is too expensive. On the other hand, she spent almost $200 on a three tap tower for my birthday. If we tried to roll that (along with all the rest of my kegging system) into the cost per beer, it would never get out of the red. But we don't. This is my hobby, which is balanced against the costs of her hobbies. I have a cheap ($400) mountain bike. It's a good thing that I don't get into that hobby to the same extent as I do brewing--I have friends spending thousands on their bikes! Doug Moyer Big Lick Brewing Collective "Big Lick--it feels good going down!" On tap: NOTHING!!! :-( Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 09:18:06 -0500 (EST) From: macher at telerama.com Subject: So when DOES lag time end?? Hi All, I am new to this hobby...only in it a year now...and after 30 batches or so (including 6 in the pipeline now)...I have been eagerly awaiting an answer to this question which was posted by someone (sorry, I forget who): What significant event marks the end of "lag time" and the beginning of "fermentation?" I hope I did not somehow miss the answer to this question! I do carefully read nearly every article in the HBD. I now want to buy a microscope and some of the blue stuff...opps, back to the question... As an example, I recently reused the yeast from the primary of a Wyeast 1028 IPA (first all-grain by the way) and after dropping the wort (cooled to about 78F I think) onto the yeast cake I noticed several bubbles/min coming out the 1" blowoff tube within about 2 hours. Was my lag time two hours? It may have been 6 or 8 hours(or more) before some foam was moving up the tube and into the half gallon jug of water. So, when does lag time end? a) When the first co2 Bubbles out the blowoff tube/air lock? or, b) After the surface of the wort is covered with foam (can't spell the K word, and certainly cannot pronounce it :-)) or, c) Some other time which is obvious to all except me? If the answer has appeared, or appears before this does, sorry for the bandwidth! Bill "whose inquiring mind wants to know..." Bill Macher macher at telerama.lm.com Pittsburgh, Pa USA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 09:03:43 -0500 From: "Paul A. Hausman" <paul at lion.com> Subject: Justifying Beer Making In HOMEBREW Digest #2560, "Lee, Ken" <KLee at resdata.com> wrote: > I wanted to know how others that read this digest, can justify the > expense to their spouses? ... Maybe I've been married a bit longer than you. My spouse is not a beer drinker (although I occasionally stumble on to a recipe that she likes and I do produce an annual batch of cider for her). However, she supports my hobby with abandon. By what other hobby can she get me off her back for the better part of a Saturday for only about $25 US? -- It's all in how you sell it. - ---- Paul A. Hausman <paul at lion.com> Lion Technology Inc., Lafayette, NJ, 07848 USA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 09:52:13 -0500 From: Mark Warrington <warringt at esvax.email.dupont.com> Subject: Re: Replacement parts for fasch-frich tap I too have a broken part on a Fass-Frish (sic) mini-keg and need a replacement. On mine the black plastic dip tube broke at the top where it threads into the metal top piece with an o-ring. I too need a source. Mark > > Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 08:25:44 -0500 > From: "LARSONC%DOM13.DOPO7" <Erik.Larson at MS01.DO.treas.sprint.com> > Subject: Replacement Parts for Fasch-Frich Tap > To: EX.MAIL."homebrew at hbd.org" > Subject: Replacement Parts for Fasch-Frich Tap > > Greetings, > > I have a Fasch Frich Party-Fasser 5L mini-keg tap (the approx $70 > forged metal version) on which the plastic regulator arm has been > broken. This is a small threaded piece which attaches to the plastic > regulator dial via a button type pinch fitting on one end, and which on the > other end screws into the forged tap body to adjust CO2 release. I am > missing the plastic button for the dial connection as well. > > Do anyone know if a source for replacements parts? I'd hate to have a > $70 tap rendered useless for lack of $1 in parts. > > Private e-mail is fine to: > > erik.larson at treas.sprint.com. > > Thanks, > Erik Larson > Washington, DC and Ellicott City, MD > Taxman/Brewer Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 09:57:11 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: New Glarus Spotted Cow Ale A friend, knowing I am a beer nut, dropped off a bottle of this he had picked up in Madison. I was most impressed by this unassuming beer. The label describes it as a "Wisconsin farmhouse ale...with flaked barley...the finest Wisconsin malts...a little hint of corn." Even before I read the label, I smelled it and thought, "Corn!" (You all know I brew with the stuff and like it). It had a soft palate and was lightly hopped, maybe upper teens at most. I guess what I liked best was its easy drinkability (at least for 3 oz., I had to split it four ways) and great balance of components. It was light but not wimpy or simple or bland. As a matter of fact, it held a fair amount of interest for me in spite of its low hopping level and, I would guess, relatively ordinary gravity, but it was liked by drinkers of ordinary domestic beers. I think if I were to brew this based on the 3 oz. taste (unfortunately in a social setting, not an analytical one), I'd go for an OG of 1.044, 2 row domestic pale ale malt, 12% flaked barley, 8% flaked corn, and 5% domestic 40L crystal. Hop to target of 18 IBU with domestic Fuggles and Fuggles and Goldings for finishing. Might even use a little Goldings for FWH. So the question - Any of you Wisconsin brewers know the real inside skinny on this beer? Grain and hop bill, OG, etc? New Glarus has attracted a lot of attention for its cherry Belgian and its cyser, but I think this little beer is a gem. It shows you don't have to be bombastic to make a really good beer. Does the brewer (Daniel Carey) talk? Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 07:25:22 -0800 From: Charley Burns <cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us> Subject: re: boiled grains and corn sugar, no chilling required Mike York writes in hbd #2560 that he agrees that rapid chilling of wort is not necessary to make great beer. Then he goes on to describe his recipe for a great beer including: "...boiled specialty grains and corn sugar...". Well, I agree with Mike, no amount of chilling will improve a beer with this process and ingredients. Mike - try using DME instead of corn sugar and try steeping the grains in 160-170F water in a grain bag instead of boiling them. Then try some pure liquid yeast cultures if you're at all interested in improving the beer you make. My $.02 worth. Charley in N. Cal. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 10:42:20 -0800 From: "James L. Spies" <spiesjl at mda.state.md.us> Subject: Yeasties: reusing the wee beasties To the esteemed collective: I just brewed my 1st all grain batch, an I.P.A., and used Wyeast 1968 London ESB that was stepped up into about a 1/2 gallon starter (activity within 5 hours). Kraeusen foamed through the airlock like mad for about 2 days straight, and has since subsided to 1 bubble about every 9 seconds (it's now day 5). Anyway, I have heard much on the HBD about the tendency of 1968 to flocculate and possibly require re-agitiation to keep going. I have swirled the 6-gallon carboy about once daily to keep the beasties in suspension (they are *flocculent* puppies) yet I still have a 1/2 or so inch cake on the bottom of the fermenter. I'm not going to worry, but my question is this: I would like to brew another batch to immediately follow bottling this one. Can I simply *dump* new wort on top of the cream and green colored cake that's left in the carboy and aerate like hell, or is this cake so compacted that they won't wake up? Any help would be appreciated, and asap because brew day #2 approaches. Responses may also be sent to speevus at aol.com Thanks, Jay Spies Wishful Thinking Basement Brewery Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 08:06:04 -0800 From: Alan Edwards <ale at cisco.com> Subject: Re: simple sparging tip I wrote: > Last time I brewed, an interested friend was helping out, and > suggested just floating a tupperware lid on the grain! I just poured > the water onto the lid and it kept the grain from being disturbed. > It worked like a champ, and freed up a hand! In HBD #2560, Kirk Harralson"<kwh at smtpgwy.roadnet.ups.com> wrote: | I have always gently poured sparge water onto a saucer resting on top | of the mash to minimize disturbing the grain bed. This was not my | original idea, of course, I read it in some introductory brewing book. | Lately, I have been wondering if this is not a recipe for channeling. | It seems like the sparge water would run down the edges of the grain | bed, and not distribute evenly. Comments? The idea that I didn't explain properly (sorry) is that, if you keep the sparge water level above the level of the grain, that the plastic lid will float on top of the layer of water, keeping you from disturbing the grain. This would not encourage channeling. Cross section of later tun: || || || .________. || <-- plastic lid floating on top ||~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|| <-- sparge water ||oooooooooooooooooo|| <-- top of grain ||oooooooooooooooooo|| ||oooooooooooooooooo|| However, if you don't keep the water above the grain, then yes, the lid idea has a chance of promoting channeling. -Alan Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 11:17:10 -0500 From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Preserved Cider,Overflow infection Brewsters: Bernie, KB2EBE, received 20 gallons of cider which refuses to ferment and= he asks for a way to perhaps salvage 20 gallons for his hard cider production. The fact that the farmer has an "out of date" practice suggests to me that he is using metabisulfite to stabilize the cider. If= so, it will be possible to sweep the sulfite out with CO2 from fermentation. Try to find out at what dilution you can get fermentation.= Below about 100 ppm, yeast can ferment. Try this experiment: Dilute cider to see if you can get fermentation, making up four samples with no water added, 1/2 cup boiled water/1/2 cup cider, 2/3 cup water/1/3 cup cider and 3/4 cup water /1/4 cup cider. Pit= ch yeast into each of these and watch for activity. If you get activity you're in luck - maybe- After the sample has fermented for a day or so, a= dd an equal volume of the cider which was in the sample - no more water. = Continue this each day so that you constantly increase the amount of cide= r added to the sample. Thus if your 1/2/1/2 sample fermented: Day two add 1/2 cup cider, allow = to ferment, day three the sample has a cumulative total of 1 cup of cider in= it, so add a cup of cider to this sample, next day 2 cups and so on. = Obviously you can start with a larger amount (say 2 pints of water and 2 pints of cider - or whatever) when you do this for real, depending on how= much water you don't mind putting into the cider. If you can't get any fermentation or adding additional amounts of cider kills the fermentation permanently, you likely have a permanent agent whi= ch will not sweep out and the yeast cannot adjust to. If not, make a nice hot, spicy apple punch for Thanksgiving with fruit, spices and some vodka! - ---------------------------------------------------------- AlK says for me not to blame overflow hoses for infections in beer and us= es his own case as the only reason not to do so. I believe you Al, knowing you soak your hoses in bleach solution for a long time ( months in some cases) and that you may be scrupulously clean in your many years of brewing good beer. Moving to the 6.5 gallon carboy probably avoids a lot = of potential for contamination, if the foam doesn't reach the top of the carboy. I point out this source of infection because others may not be so R/A and= not recognize how that sewer pipe ( describing the function and intending all the emotional images this conjures up) attached to the top of the carboy can be a serious infection= point. It is very difficult to clean off all the oils and insoluble prote= in clinging inside there, even with soaking and no mechanical action. As yo= u and I have both pointed out many times, one cannot disinfect a surface th= at is covered with organic material. I know that in my open fermenter I sti= ll have to scrub the surface sometimes even when I soak in hot bleach soluti= on to remove the crud. Inside that tube, scrubbing is not possible.. As for how the pipe causes infection, I am sure I'm not the only person t= o notice that foam rises up, touches the pipe and then collapses back down into the beer. It is not a one way street as you suggest. This looks to m= e like the perfect mechanism to transfer infection to the beer from inside = an overflow pipe. Perhaps a discussion on how to perfectly clean those overflow tubes is in= order. How do other brewers using this method do it successfully? How b= ig a carboy and the size of the tube also, please. - ------------------------------------------------------------- Keep on brewin' Dave Burley Kinnelon, NJ 07405 103164.3202 at compuserve.com Dave_Burley at compuserve.com = Voice e-mail OK = = Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 11:23:18 -0600 From: lorencrow at earthling.net (Loren Crow) Subject: Parti-gyle I didn't see any serious answers to the question of what a parti-gyle is, so let me take a stab at it. According to my _Encyclopedia of Beer_, which I picked up for a buck at a Wal Mart book sale, the gyle is a portion of wort--about a quart--held out from fermentation, preserved, and added at bottling (or kegging) for conditioning the beer. The parti-gyle (which term is not listed there; it's my interpretation of the French) would be approximately the same thing: a bit of wort "parted" from the rest of the batch and saved for conditioning. Hope this helps, Loren Crow lorencrow at earthling.net Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 08:51:43 PST From: "Rosenzweig,Steve" <Steve_Rosenzweig at wb.xerox.com> Subject: Top Five Ways to Justify Home Brewing Ken Lee, in HBD 2560, asks how others avoid the dreaded spousal consternation at brewing and related expenses; ******************************************************** Top Five Ways to Justify Home Brewing: #5) Start spending more time in bars - blow $50 to $100 a night a few times a week and see how much she likes your new "hobby"! #4) Prepare an economic treatise including ingredients, time, labor, and equipment depreciation, proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that brewing your own does indeed save at least $0.01 per bottle over commercial swill, and hey - over a lifetime - that adds up! #3) Good training for a glorious career in professional brewing - fame and fortune are just ripe for the picking, the sky is the limit! - just ask some of the esteemed HBD contributors! #2) The yeast need you - they worship you as a god - you feel morally compelled to provide for them! #1) Keeps money from the pockets of the evil Busch/Miller/Coors empires! ******************************************************** Let's face it - if you _have_ to justify it, it's a good sign you never will be able to - at least not your spouse. You do it because its a hobby and you enjoy the preparation, process, and results. Anything else is perfuming the pig. Respect and encourage her hobbies, spend quality time with her as well, take care of all your other responsibilities prior to brew day and overall, enjoy yourself while doing it - maybe it'll be contagious. Forgot who's tag line it was, but it bears repeating: If I'm not drinkin' it, I'm thinkin' it! Stephen Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 10:45:13 PST From: Scott Kaczorowski <kacz at nfs.aisf.com> Subject: Re: Justifying Beer Making Ken Lee asked in HBD 2560: > I wanted to know how others that read this digest, can justify the > expense to their spouses? Beer is one of my hobbies. I'm fortunate in that The Big Marynski, while not interested in actually brewing, likes beer as well. In a lot of ways, we share the hobby. She's also a high school teacher and this generally means that she's busy at least 2 weekend days a month. Those Maryn-free days are generally when I brew. > I started yesterday around 9:00 in the morning, and was ready > to pitch the yeast at 5:00. Ikes! 8 hours? How many rests did you do? I did a brew on Sunday and did 3 rests and it took me 6 hours from clean driveway to clean driveway. A single infusion typically takes me about 5 hours clean to clean. Describe your procedure and maybe we can find some places to cut some time off. A few places to save time: 1) Never mash for more than 45 minutes. It'll convert. You'll be fine. I swear. Your alpha amylase is almost completely denatured at the higher sacc rests (156-158) in about this time. Anything longer is a complete waste of time 'cause the 'zymes are history or close to it. (I'm sure, in fact I hope, someone will let me know if I'm wrong here, but I believe Fix, _PoBS_ will back me up. I hope.) 2) Eliminate mashout. Might reduce your efficiency a little. 1 pound of extra grain == 20 minutes? Other possibly beneficial things happen during mashout, but might be a good trade. 3) Do a 20 minute sparge. I run my system wide open during the sparge (3/8" hosebarb, so it's not Niagra) and *still* get 85% efficiency. I do mashout, though. Again, a little extra grain might equal a little time saved might be worth it. 4) Start heating the runoff in the kettle as soon as you've collected about a quart. 5) Do as many things as possible in parallel. Clean the mashtun while waiting for the boil. Etc. Duh. > The two biggest complaints I get are: When is the expense going to stop? I justify it in a couple ways: 1) Homebrew is much MUCH cheaper than commercial. 25 cents a bottle as opposed to $1.00-1.50 a bottle. (Obviously, I'm not including time spent.) I'll bet that if you did the math and compared the result to the price of Anchor Steam (ok, possibly contrived comparison), you'd be pleasantly surprised. M/L tun and all. 2) It's my dang hobby! It's certainly less expensive than other hobbies I can think of. Take collecting Porsches, for instance. Sure, other hobbies are cheaper. Watching TV leaps to mind. Whee. > The other is the amount of time it takes to brew using all-grain. I've tried to get the neighbor into this hobby and have done some extract batches lately. The results are good, it's only about $10 more in ingredients (still much cheaper than store bought) and total time is around 2 hours. > Now I want to make 10 gallon batches so that I don't have to spend as > much time brewing Brewing double batches will increase your brew schedule by about an hour. Sounds to me like it would be better to do two shorter batches. That is, an even longer brew day will be what gets noticed, not the fact that it means you get to skip a brew. What if you got up REALLY early on brew day? Like 4:00am? You'd be done before lunch. Hey, you love it, right? Get outta bed. > To try and save money, I have gone back to using dry yeast. You'd be amazed at how cheap stuff is if you look. I have five or six 7.5 gallon carboys for which I collectively paid nothing. Find the right scrapyard and Cornys are $5. Buy your grain in bulk. Your local brewpub will sometimes oblige you and tack an extra sack or two on their next order for their cost. The local brewpub is also good for yeast. Dry yeast, hell. Go get a PINT of yeast SOLIDS for free! Grow your own hops. By scrounging, calling around, borrowing tools, and doing much of the work myself, I put together 1/2bbl converted kegs for less than $40 each (no, really). Etc. Good luck! Scott Kaczorowski Long Beach, CA kacz at nfs.aisf.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 13:55:33 -0500 (EST) From: KennyEddy at aol.com Subject: Brewing Expenses / Tupperware Channeling Ken Lee asks: "I wanted to know how others that read this digest, can justify the expense to their spouses?" It's a hobby. Hobbies cost money. Period. Some people like to sew. You need a sewing machine for that. Even a low-end one is pushing $200. You probably want to buy patterns at a few bucks a pop. Needles, thread. How about woodworking? Hundreds -- perhaps thousands -- for tools and equipment. Ever price cabinet-grade veneer plywood? Exotic hardwood and specialty hardware? Ask the shade-tree mechanic how much money is wrapped up in automotive tools. Don't forget the $50 or more just for the shop manual for your particular vehicle. Don't even start with weekend musicians! I spent a lot of money on a decent guitar (or two), even though no one hears my stuff except for a few friends and an occasional bar-full of drunks when I decide to play a few Willie Nelson tunes with a friend for tips and fun. Perhaps the "mistake" you made was trying to justify the hobby with "cheap beer". I'd wager that a majority of HBD'ers had this thought at least in mind, if not foremost, when they started. Sure, an all-grain batch using malt paid for by the sack and yeast ranched into multiple copies can be cheaper than buying swill, but that's not really the goal. In fact -- and I've also heard this point made by others -- I enjoy brewing maybe even more than drinking. The drink is the verification (or indictment!) of my work. Six hours in a chilly garage wearing blatantly-ugly plaid (yes, plaid) flannel elastic-waist sweatpants and an old sweatshirt, smell of wort and hops in the air, a football game on the little portable TV. THAT'S a nice Sunday. Hobbies provide diversion, relaxation, and enjoyment. Often, they produce enjoyable products like furniture, music, clothes, vehicles that run, and yes, beer. Tell your wife to get her own hobby. Or better yet, teach her to brew. ***** Kirk Harralson wonders about using a tupperware lid as a diffuser for returned/recirculated wort: "Lately, I have been wondering if this is not a recipe for channeling. It seems like the sparge water would run down the edges of the grain bed, and not distribute evenly. Comments?" Try a circular sheet of nylon needlepoint backing "fabric" from the crafts store. It's basically a coarse plastic mesh, so it breaks up the oncoming wort but also allows it to flow into the tun across the entire surface of the mash. A 9" diameter circle will set you back about 50 cents. ***** Ken Schwartz El Paso, TX KennyEddy at aol.com http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 11:32:40 PST From: Scott Kaczorowski <kacz at nfs.aisf.com> Subject: re: simple sparging tip Kirk Harralson says about what Alan Edwards says: > I have always gently poured sparge water onto a saucer resting on top > of the mash to minimize disturbing the grain bed. This was not my > original idea, of course, I read it in some introductory brewing book. > Lately, I have been wondering if this is not a recipe for channeling. > It seems like the sparge water would run down the edges of the grain > bed, and not distribute evenly. Comments? It was just this observance (the mash actually pulling away from the sides of my tun) that led me to "run the rakes." I was also concerned about the layer of goo that forms on the top of the mash (what's the German name for that again?) as it looked less than hyper-permeable to me. So, at several times during the sparge I actually stir the top *half* of the mash (I use a converted keg). Sometimes this is six or eight inches down. This has no noticeable effect (to me) whatsoever on the clarity of the runoff. I think the concern with disturbing the grain bed is perhaps overstated in some cases. No, I don't think cooling overnight is OK... I remember Al K. caught a little bit of grief (?) when he mentioned he had been to England and seen some brewers using rakes. I recently toured Miller Brewing Co. in Irwindale, CA and Miller not only runs rakes continuously through their sparge (1140bbl lauter tun!) but lowers them continuously as well. They end up 2.5 inches from the false bottom when they're done. So I guess I feel somewhat validated in my practice. Give it a, er, whirl... Scott Kaczorowski Long Beach, CA kacz at nfs.aisf.com "Nothing's for certain, it could always go wrong" Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 13:41:38 -0600 From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) Subject: RE: Correction!!!--Wyeast Lager strains and higher fermentation t From: "Charles L. Ehlers" <clehlers at flinthills.com> > "Because I use a refrigerator w/ freezer, and still use the freezer, I >have to rely on the refrigerator's thermostat to control the temp. No >matter how HIGH (not low) I set the temp control for the freezer, the temp >doesn't GO ABOVE (not drop below) 45 degrees F. It usually hangs around 42 >degrees F." > I'm forced to lager below the optimum temperatures, and can't follow the >schedule Noonan recommends, but the yeast still ferments well. If your refrigerator is like many, then some of the very cold air in the freezer is blown into the main frige section. Feel around the back wall and look for a slot or air vent. If you find it, block it where it enters the frige section partially and this should render the temperature warmer. Give it a try. Ron Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 14:55:26 -0500 From: ejb11 at psu.edu (Edward J. Basgall) Subject: Homegrown hops in HBD 2560 Don Van Valkenburg steinfiller at juno.com wrote: >However since making that post I have heard from several who had >successfully used homegrown hops. Along with these successes I would >like them to report on how they processed their hops. Hi Don & HBD Collective: FWIW, I grow and use some of my homegrown Cascade hops here in Central PA. I picked them as they were turning papery and dried them in a 5 tiered food dehydrator with a circulating fan for 2-3 days (~$15US at Big Lots). After drying I packed 1 oz lots of the whole cones into Dazey Seal a Meal bags, compressed them down by sandwiching between two boards prior to heat sealing, and store them in my freezer. So far, I have used them for dryhopping an Amer. Pale Ale with good results, no off flavors or grassy aromas. Smells like hops. I can only guess that they are around 5 %AA. I have a short beer and hop section at my web site with some photos if anyone is interested. The URL is: http://www.personal.psu.edu/ejb11/Homebrew.htm cheers ed basgall SCUM State College Underground Maltsters State College,PA Return to table of contents
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