HOMEBREW Digest #2571 Mon 01 December 1997

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Argon flush ("David R. Burley")
  Re: bubblegum from yeast (Sean Mick)
  Newbie Warning: I have some questions (carlsberg, microwave ("Francois Landry")
  TSP and Aluminum OK? (Paul Kensler)
  hop-py pumpkin, bottling barleywines ("Raymond Estrella")
  Bubblegum (Adrian Griffin)
  re: (unmalted adjuncts,) mead (and gratitude) (Dick Dunn)
  Re:brewery setup ("John Lifer, jr")
  plaid and yeast identification (Mark Tumarkin)
  Histamine reactions from beer (Ninkasi)
  bubblegum esters (Mark Tumarkin)
  Mexican Beer (rlasser)
  Kegging and Sankey (Wheeler)
  thanks (Torque)
  Unitank design ("Frank E. Kalcic")
  What went wrong? ("Lee, Ken")
  malted barley gelatinisation temps (Andy Walsh)
  IRC request ("Michel J. Brown")
  reusing yeast from carboy (Mark Tumarkin)
  Agar and yeast ranching (Saul Laufer)
  Proper Irish Moss use (kathy)
  Brewer customs (kathy)
  On leaving the Hops Behind ("Michael Gerholdt")
  Finnicky ferment (nathan_l_kanous_ii)
  Yeast from bottle conditioned beer (nathan_l_kanous_ii)
  cleaning aluminum, yeast recovery ("David R. Burley")

===================================================================== A Public Service Announcement (experimental feature): Check out the "Le Premier Spectacle De Houblon du Monde" - The PALE ALES home brew competition. Entry deadline is Dec. 4th, 1997 Visit their website at www.angelfire.com/biz/paleales for more info. NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESS: hbd.org Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hbd.org (Articles are published in the order they are received.) If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to homebrew-request@hbd.org. **SUBSCRIBE AND UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS MUST BE SENT FROM THE E-MAIL **ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!! IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, the autoresponder and the SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE commands will fail! For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to brewery at realbeer.com Homebrew Digest Information on the Web: http://hbd.org Requests for back issues will be ignored. Back issues are available via: Anonymous ftp from... hbd.org /pub/hbd ftp.stanford.edu /pub/clubs/homebrew/beer E-mail... ftpmail at gatekeeper.dec.com (send a one-line e-mail message with the word help for instructions.) AFS users can find it under... /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 15:22:12 -0500 From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Argon flush Brewsters: Layne Rossi saw a bottle of argon gas advertised as being = useful for flushing wine bottles and wonders if it is useful for flushing carboys and cornies to prevent oxidation of beer. I doubt it is very useful even for wine bottles and may be more "high tech" hype for rich wine drinkers. In such a small bottle as a wine bottle, the gas will go in under turbulent conditions and mix to equilibrium. = Since you learned in Freshman Chemistry that at equilibrium, each gas occupies the whole volume of the container, you will get a mixture of gases which will not separate out no matter = how heavy one is relative to the other. Under these turbulent flow conditions it may take many volumes of gas to get the bottle or Cornie or carboy flushed to a small amount of oxygen. Nitrogen or CO2 = would be just as good under these turbulent flow conditions. = See the HBD archives for more discussion on this. = Safety concerns and comments are there, like filling up a valley or mine= or large tank by *laminar* flow conditions and smothering occupants, etc= =2E Flushing a cornie by passing gas (oops) into it will have a similar problem and will take large quantities of CO2 to flush it properl= y. 5 volumes blown into the keg (100 liters) will reduce the oxygen content to about 1% oxygen and 10 volumes (200 liters) will reduce the oxygen content of the gas to 0.05%. At 44 g/22.4 liters at STP five volumes of CO2 will be 196 grams or a roughly a half of a pound of CO2. 10 volumes will be about one pound. This represents a substantial percentage of a 5 pound cylinder and an unnecessary waste. = To answer your suggestion positively, here's how I flush my cornies: Fill them clear to the top with cool ( even hot is OK) boiled water and = push the water out with CO2 applied to the "in" valve and the water will come out through the "out" valve with a beer delivery hose and valve normally used to fill your glass. Now the gas space has pure CO2 in it with no possibility of oxygen. Note this takes only 20 liters of CO2 and is much better. Fill the cornie with beer with = the hose outlet all the way to the bottom and the lid partially covering the top opening or a piece of plastic wrap to avoid mixing air into the head space. Place the top on, snap it, open the release valve and flush= this small head space briefly with CO2. Close the valve and pressurize the cornie to seal it even if you are doing a natural carbonation/lagering as I often do. Without pressure it will not seal. I always fill carboys with still-fermenting beer so I don't have this problem, but I suppose the same thing could be done with carboys, if great care is taken not to pressurize the carboy above atmospheric. The convex side of the carboy ( the outside) is strong to applied pressur= e and the concave side ( the inside) is weak to applied pressure. Pressurizing the carboy above atmospheric may cause it to explode. I recommend that you can siphon water out of the water filled carboy and supply the CO2 at the top at just about atmospheric pressure (0 on the PSIG tank gauge). I imagine a rubber stopper with two holes in it. One for the siphon to remove the water and the other to supply the CO2. I also imagine having a rubber stopper will provide some measure of safety against pressuring the carboy, = if it is not jammed in too tightly. Keep on brewin' Dave Burley Kinnelon, NJ 07405 103164.3202 at compuserve.com Dave_Burley at compuserve.com = Voice e-mail OK = Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 12:44:14 -0800 (PST) From: homebrew at dcn.davis.ca.us (Sean Mick) Subject: Re: bubblegum from yeast Al K wrote: >I've used perhaps 50 strains of Saccharomyces over the years and I don't >recall a bubblegum aroma from any of them. However, if you smell Orval, >you will notice that "bubblegum" is a very strong component of its aroma. >I was lucky enough to culture the yeast from Orval that produces that >characteristic aroma. There are four things that lead me to believe that >this "bubblegum" yeast is Brettanomyces: Al, have you (or anyone else out there) used Wyeast #1214 and noticed a bubblegum aroma? This has been my experience. Perhaps this yeast is from Orval and contains Brett?? Or my nose is smelling something else. Any thoughts? Sean Mick Mick's Homebrew Supplies http://www.dcn.davis.ca.us/~homebrew Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 15:35:59 PST From: "Francois Landry" <flandry at hotmail.com> Subject: Newbie Warning: I have some questions (carlsberg, microwave Hello to all! My name is Francois Landry. I live in Quebec City, in Canada. I have brewed 3 great batches to date and intend to brew a lot more during the coming months. Here are my questions: 1) Can anyone locate a partial mash or all-extract recipe for a beer similar to Carlsberg. (Anyone can look in their "Brewing beers like those you buy"? Please...) 2) Would it seem stupid to try boiling my wort in my microwave? :-) I know it sounds freaky for most of you but I would only try small 1-2 gallons batches, maybe not even fully boiling the wort. It's just that brewing in college dorm room is not like brewing at home... and I don't really want "no-boil" kits. Thank you for your .02$ Francois Landry flandry at hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 18:06:02 -0600 From: Paul Kensler <pkensler at ix.netcom.com> Subject: TSP and Aluminum OK? HBD, Earlier today, I posted a message in response to someone's query on how to clean his aluminum kettle. I recommended a brief (30-60 min) soak in TSP (Tri Sodium Phosphate), followed by a sponge scrubbing and a good rinse. However, later today I was visiting a local hardware store and happened to look at a box of TSP. The label reads: Do not use on aluminum. Are there any chemists or metallurgists out there that can explain why not? I have been using TSP to clean my kettle for over a year now, and have not noticed any pitting or other visible signs of wear. However, I do not apply the TSP directly to the kettle; I dilute it to about 1 TB/gallon of water (Please, no responses on the Aluminum/Alzheimers debate!). Thanks in advance! Paul Kensler TSP user in Plano, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 97 03:20:19 UT From: "Raymond Estrella" <ray-estrella at classic.msn.com> Subject: hop-py pumpkin, bottling barleywines Hello to all, Mark tells of over-hopping woes, >I just made a pumpkin ale and a sweet stout last weekend. >I miscalculated the amount of perl hops to put into the pumpkin ale. >It turned out more IPA-ish. I can smell and taste the pumpkin and spices, >but the hops are kind of overpowering. Is there a way I can mellow it out? You could do what all the big brewers do to maintain a consistant product, blend batches. If you have the time, and The desire you can make another batch of pumpkin ale, using 1/3 or so of the hops as the first batch, and blend them together in the keg, or bottling bucket. Scott Rohlf asks, >You may remember about a month ago, I asked about Rogue yeast for a >barleywine. Well, I made the beer and found out some things in the >process. I ended up with a dismal 1.084 post boil OG. <snip> >I had a few questions regarding this thing. The fermentation seems to have >ended around 1.026. Is this a reasonable final gravity? I would like some >advise on how to bottle this stuff. I am leaning toward force carbonation. >I would like to know if this would be detrimental to the beer. Will it have an >effect on how it ages? Thanks for all your help. You do not say what your O.G. ended up at after adding the extract, but if it was around the 1.100 that you were shooting for, than 1.026 sounds pretty good for a F.G. (76% apparent attenuation, 11% alc. by vol.) As far as bottling goes, I force carbonate and CPF bottle all of my strong beers, (with the exception of Triples.) I let them condition in the keg for 2-3 months before I bottle, then condition a few more months in the bottle. Conditioning time depends on the size (O.G.) of the brew. This has worked well for me but as always, YAMMV. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 20:55:15 +0000 From: Adrian Griffin <agriffin at softcom.net> Subject: Bubblegum About 3 years ago, I made a Belgian pale using William's Abbey, and it had a delicate bubblegum note as it warmed up in the glass. In October this year, I made a similar ale using Wyeast 1214, fermenting at about 65F. After 4 1/2 weeks in the keg, this one has a slight rubbery/dime store candy/bubblegum off-aroma. My feeling is that the bubblegum/cheap candy odor results from fermenting these yeasts (which may both be Chimay) too warm and pehaps with too little oxygen. Return to table of contents
Date: 27 Nov 97 01:24:56 MST (Thu) From: rcd at raven.talisman.com (Dick Dunn) Subject: re: (unmalted adjuncts,) mead (and gratitude) Chasman <cwhudak at gemini.adnc.com> wrote, _inter_alia_, some rather detailed thoughts about carbonation levels for meads. Then, > You might also post this question to the Mead Lovers Digest. There are alot > of experienced meaders there that could provide better insight than myself. That's fair. Do consider that a lot of mead-makers don't carbonate at all... they see mead more like a wine (traditionally still), so if their normal carbonation level is zero, they might not have a lot of insights beyond the one that in the unusual situation where they carbonate a mead (or more likely, a melomel) it comes back to the old 4 oz wt dextrose for 5 gal. > ... Try email > to: rcdraven at talisman.com That's Dick Dunn's email (the digest janitor and > a general walking FAQ about mead) and he can help you get subscribed. Heck, > Dick probably has great insight on this question, maybe he can help you out > himself. Let's correct his address to rcd at talisman.com. The raven part is a machine name within the domain, not necessary. But that might not help you much, since he's a curmudgeon and he pretends to be very busy; he's as likely as not to bit-bucket your mail. Better to ask the digest, which is a great bunch of people who keep it going in spite of Dunn's fumbling administration. It's almost a thousand people, and they manage enough material for a couple of digests a week (assuming Dunn doesn't fat-finger it and lose submitted material). If you want to subscribe to the Mead-Lover's Digest, for heaven's sake don't send a request to Dunn. Send it to mead-request@ talisman.com, and be sure to include your real name. He handles the whole thing in an utterly antediluvian style, so if you misspell "subscribe" it will slide right past, but if you send an html request he'll pop an aorta. And be patient! He's got this thing about teaching people that mead requires patience, which is just his way of excusing admin-laziness. For my own part, I haven't worried much about carbonation levels on mead. I just tend to split between "sparkling" and "still". If I want a still mead, I want it right down at zero: no fizz, spritz, petillance, nothing in any language. If I want carbonated, I want it to be substantial but not enough to bust bottles...in other words, about medium beer-level fizz. In a thinner beverage like a mead, this means you don't get a head but you get serious carbonation on the tongue. A melomel can take substantial carbonation, and can also be made with more substantial (darker) honey. A sparkling raspberry melomel is wondrous. Straight meads (no added fruits or herbs) are more challenging in the same sense that light beers are less tolerant of faults. In this arena, I don't know of any useful rules. What works for me is to wait until the mead is fermented out, ready to decide how to finish it, and then taste carefully to decide whether it should be bottled still as-is, primed to carbonate, or stabilized and sweetened. If you take this approach, you'll still make some mistakes. However, the mistakes will decrease as you gain experience, and in any case you'll learn faster than you would with any dogmatic rules on carbonation level. - --- Dick Dunn rcd, domain talisman.com Boulder County, Colorado USA ...Reality is neat! It works even if you don't believe in it! Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 07:44:37 -0600 From: "John Lifer, jr" <jliferjr at misnet.com> Subject: Re:brewery setup I'm sometimes dense, but I'm not sure I understand your problem. You will be brewing on the patio, which has a water supply. Do you need a way to get rid of the excess water? If not, then what is the problem with lugging your finished brew into the utility room? I would not suggest making a piped route for your brew unless it could be straight down into utility. Down a hall is not too good for the spousal approval rating. It will lower your approval rating just about as much as brewing in the kitchen! Just when your rating is about to go up by moving out of her domain:) Be careful about hammers and drills at anytime unless it is at the spousal request! and for spousal benefit:) John in Mississippi -Home of the Goat Pen Brewery And it does smell Goooood! > John Myers Wrote: I have a protected and > semi-private patio with water supply, and this seems nearly ideal to set > up a propane fired system. The real issue is moving a large amount of > liquid in a safe and sanitary way from the patio, down the carpeted > hall, down a flight of steps into the utility room. My thought > was to run a dedicated pipe from patio to utility via the patio water > supply. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 09:44:16 -0500 From: Mark Tumarkin <tumarkin at mindspring.com> Subject: plaid and yeast identification AlK writes concerning yeast identification: >It does indeed take a lot of experience to identify various yeast strains >using a microscope. One method that is used is to inject some of yeast "A" >into something like a rabbit and have the rabbit's immune system create >antibodies for the yeast. You can then take the these antibodies and use >them to identify other unknown yeast strains. If there is a reaction, you >know that you have yeast "A" again. I don't recommend doing this with your >pets, especially because you need a different rabbit for each unique strain.. >There is a less-complicated method that I highly recommend, although it takes >a microscope, a lot of patience and hours of looking at various strains >under roughly 800x. You can identify various yeast strains by the colour >of their marching bands' uniforms. Well, that would explain it - the neighbor kids wouldn't let me borrow their rabbit, so I borrowed my father-in-law's microscope (he's one of the pointy headed science types) and looked at some Traquair House Ale. The little yeasties were easy to identify - they were marching along with wee tiny bagpipes and wearing the colors of the Stuart tartan. Does this cast some doubt on Pat Babcock's theory of avoiding plaid while brewing - or does that apply only to brewers, not to the yeast themselves? To be on the safe side, I don't wear plaid while brewing - in the Orange and Blue Gator colors it would definately shock those yeast into submission. Mark Tumarkin The Brewery in the Jungle Gainesville, FL Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 10:01:10 -0500 (EST) From: Ninkasi at aol.com Subject: Histamine reactions from beer Greetings, All! I've been lurking for a few months, and really enjoy reading everyone's contributions--I've learned a lot! Anyway, I have a question. A friend of mine sometimes gets a strong histamine reaction when she drinks some beers, including some (but not all) of my homebrews. I've been trying to keep track of which ones do and don't so I can figure out what it is, but then I thought, maybe someone already knows the answer! So--what in a beer might cause a histamine reaction? How could I avoid it, in the interest of friendly homebrew-sharing? ****** Oh, on another note, I tried to justify my brewing by cost, and my husband was sceptical. but as soon as he tasted the first batch, he was asking me when I wanted to brew again, and now he wants to learn how--I guess he doesn't mind doing yucky female things like brewing with me as long as he gets a good beer at the end! Thanks, everyone! Ann St. Louis Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 10:26:37 -0500 From: Mark Tumarkin <tumarkin at mindspring.com> Subject: bubblegum esters I recently brewed my first hefeweizen. It turned out well - tasty, light, refreshing. However, it didn't have much in the way of the clove-banana flavors that I wanted. I had used the Wyeast Bavarian Wheat. So in hopes of getting more of these flavors, I brewed the same recipe but used the Wyeast Wheinstephen Wheat. When I took a hydrometer reading earlier in the ferment it seemed to be developing these flavors well, a nice spicy taste. However, at bottling the overwhelming flavor was bubblegum. In doing a search of the HBD archives, several people mentioned that this flavor did recede over time. My question is - how much time? I know that hefeweizens are supposed to be at their best when fresh, I just wonder what sort of time frame to expect for this flavor to (hopefully) recede. I suspect the cause was a too warm fermentation, does this seem likely? Mark Tumarkin The Brewery in the Jungle Gainesville, FL Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 13:05:17 +0000 From: rlasser at pop.erols.com Subject: Mexican Beer Greetings one and all, Does anyone have a recipe, advice or experience brewing any Mexican style beers? I haven't a clue as to what malt or hops are used. I'd love to try and make something along the lines of Negro Modelo. Thanks in advance, Bob Lasser Philadelphia "Outside of a dog, a book is Man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." - Groucho Marx rlasser at erols.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 13:09:21 -0500 From: Wheeler <fwheeler at mciunix.mciu.k12.pa.us> Subject: Kegging and Sankey I want to thank everyone who contributes to the HBD for all the answers as well as the questions. God I love this sport! I need some help with a question about kegging. The Hoptech catalog has a Sankey conversion kit in it. Has anyone used this kit? Any suggestions about using a Sankey keg? How do you clean one of those kegs to get the Miller/Bud stuff out so that it won't ruin the flavor of my brew? TIA, Red Wheeler Blue Bell, PA A quote from my favorite T-shirt, "Beauty is in the eye of the Beer holder." Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 14:44:26 -0800 From: Torque <wieleba at pce.net> Subject: thanks Thanks to everyone who e-mailed me about my kegging problem, I recieved a lot of good info, and should have the problem fixed on a week or two, Thanks again Dan in the Burbs o'Buffalo - -- ************************************************* Because Life is Too Important to Drink Shitty Beer http://www.pce.net/wieleba/beerlink.htm ************************************************* Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 13:52:34 -0600 (CST) From: "Frank E. Kalcic" <fkalcic at flash.net> Subject: Unitank design Fellow Brewers- This winter I will be undertaking the construction of a stainless =BD Bbl conical fermenter. I have found some information on the WWW regarding design ( mostly photos and brochures from commercial mfgrs etc.). but still have a number of questions that need answering before I arrive at my final design. 1. How necessary is it to install tri clamp style sanitary fittings at the bottom of the cone. Would standard pipe thread connections and a ball valve be too hard to clean without disassembly and therefore a likely infection source? 2. I would like to install a sample port. Would the upper portion of the cone or the lower section of the straight walls be the best location? (primarily with sanitation and cleaning in mind) What type of fittings should be used? 3. For the top fittings I plan on installing a cornelius type gas (in) port and a pressure relief / pressure gauge port. For these fittings I am planning on using standard pipe thread as the krausen should not reach the lid and therefore should not be a place to harbor bacteria. Is this thinking correct? =20 4. Would it be practical or worthwhile to attempt to install an tangential inlet and use the sample port as an outlet to create a whirlpool to settle cold break and any hot break that may have slipped by the hop bed at the base of my boiler? My main question here is would the conical bottom defeat the whirlpool concept? Any thoughts on the above are appreciated - especially if based on personal experience. Frank Kalcic, Sunnyvale CA <`)))>>< <`)))>>< <`)))>>< <`)))>>< <`)))>>< <`)))>>< <`)))>>< <`)))>>< Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 14:20:24 -0700 From: "Lee, Ken" <KLee at resdata.com> Subject: What went wrong? I have had two out of three of my last three batches turn out, well, incredibly horrible. What's worse is that I am still drinking the stuff and am not sure where I went wrong. The commonality for the last three batches has been starting to brew all-grain, but I don't thing this is the problem. The wort actually smells incredible and tastes really good (for wort that is). I put the liquid in the carboy when it is still too hot (hopefully a wort chiller will be under the tree at Christmas), and let it sit and settle for the night. I pitch the yeast the next morning. In the last batch, I waited much too long. After sitting in the carboy for two days, I noticed that there was a bit of foam on the top. E-Gads, I said, and quickly dumped two packages of dry yeast into the carboy. The yeast started churning the wort in less that 30 minutes. I knew something went wrong during bottling. I always taste the brew from the hydrometer reading flask. This gives me a good indictation of what to expect. It has a fairly astringent taste, yuck! The first all grain batch also had an extremey active fermentation. There was also a lot of cloudy thick spongy like stuff in the carboy. Any ideas? I have always loved the different beers I have made, but what is this wierd taste in the beer? It is kind of astringent and difficult to explain, but this is the second time this has happened. Is it that there is too much chlorine left in the water. I bought a filter for the second batch which turned out fine. I just am at a loss for what to do. Kenneth Lee klee at resdata.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 12:09:20 -0800 From: Andy Walsh <awalsh at crl.com.au> Subject: malted barley gelatinisation temps A few thoughts on barley gelatinisation... There are at least 3 different ways of measuring barley gelatinisation temperatures (GT): - congo red staining (measures starch granual swelling by uptake of dye) - measurement of mash viscosity using an amylograph - detecting when the "polarisation cross" disappears from large starch granules under a polarising microscope. All 3 will give different values for gelatinisation temperatures. In addition, one must state the proportion of granules that are affected. For example, a given sample of barley may give a GT of 52C (50% of large starch granules lose polarisation cross) to 61C (90% of large starch granules stain with Congo red dye). Barley starch exists in 2 forms: large granules (~25um diameter, ~89% of starch by weight) small granules (~5um diameter, ~11% of starch by weight). A given barley sample provided the following GTs (1): starch method temperature (C) at which granules are: 5% 50% 90% affected ****** ****** ************************************** large polarisation 40 52 57 congo red 47 59 61 small congo red 51 71 92 These values are for barley starch. Note the gelatinisation temperature spans a very wide range of 40C - 92C! The most important conclusions from the above are that about 90% of barley starch will gelatinise by 60C in a mash. A rest around 70C and higher will help gelatinise the small starch granules. At normal mash temps there will *always* be some residual ungelatinised small starch granules present. ie. All mashes contain some unconverted starch. This helps explain the increased extract commonly seen with rests at 70C (50% of small starch granules gelatinise around 70C) By far the most practical method of measuring GT (ie. non-laboratory) is the use of an amylograph (2). This instrument measures the viscosity of a normal step mash. As the starch gelatinises a sharp increase in viscosity occurs, followed by a subsequent decrease due to starch degradation via amylase activity. The temperature at which the sudden increase in viscosity occurs is defined as the gelatinisation temperature. A recent study (2) shows that GT is affected mainly by barley variety and crop year. GTs varied between 52C and 59C as measured by amylograph with a number of European malts (the majority being at the low end of this ie. < 56C). Even for a given barley variety, GT can vary by about 4C for different crops. What does not affect GT as measured by amylograph: - germination variables (eg. degree of modification, unless extremely undermodified) - barley total nitrogen - barley storage time The malster cannot realistically control GT. It is a parameter inherent to a particular barley sample. Maximum beta amylase activity is commonly said to occur around 60-65C. Although this may be true in mash conditions (taking into account the rate of starch gelatinisation) it is not true under laboratory conditions when using pregelatinised starch. Optimum temperatures under such conditions are actually much lower (around 50C) (3). Taking all the above into account shows that a step infusion mash from 40C up to 70C will show starch degradation occurring even at 40C. The range 50C-60C will show substantial activity, although rests around 70C will help break down the small starch granules present in all malt, and will hence improve extract. The amount of time spent in the critical 50-60C band will determine the amount of unconverted starch remaining by the time 60C is reached (malt diastatic power is obviously relevant here too). Hopefully this helps explain George Fix's results posted a month or two ago, showing that just about all of the starch had been converted in his step mash (40-60-70) by the time 60C was reached. Andy Walsh (Sydney, Australia). 1. G.N. Bathgate et al. "A reassessment of the chemical structure of barley and wheat starch granules". Die Starke 24. Jahrg 1972 no 10. p336 2. W.B. Oliver et al. "Factors affecting gelatinisation characteristics in terms of commercial malting practice". Ferment. V10 #5. Oct 1997. p317. 3. W.A. Hardwick. "Handbook of Brewing". 1995. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 1980 22:21:20 -0800 From: "Michel J. Brown" <homemade at spiritone.com> Subject: IRC request How about a live IRC channel to discuss beer, brewing, and tasting? Dr. Michel J. Brown, D.C. {Portland, OR} homemade at spiritone.com http://www.spiritone.com/~homemade/index.html "Big Man don't drink no stinking light beer!" "Big Man drink beer what got BIG TASTE!" Big Man Brewing (R) 1996 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 08:51:17 -0500 From: Mark Tumarkin <tumarkin at mindspring.com> Subject: reusing yeast from carboy SocialKing asks: >does anyone have any suggestions on collecting the yeast from a carboy(used >as a primary fermenter)? I would like to save/culture the yeast from the >carboy but i'm affraid that it won't pour out easily and i can't find a >utensil long and thin enough to reach down in there to collect ittt. any >suggestionns would be greatly appreciated! You might try leaving a small amount of beer in the carboy when you are racking, you can then swirl this around to get the yeast in suspension. You can then simply siphon out what you need. Or if you don't want to 'waste' any of your beer, you could pour in some water that you have boiled and cooled instead of the beer. An alternative that works very well (but for fermenting, rather than culturing) is to put another batch of wort directly onto the yeastcake after you rack off the first batch. This has the advantage of giving you a huge starter. You will really minimize your lag time. It just takes a little more planning/timing. Also, you want your second batch of beer to be a same or similar type - or at least a style that will do well with the same yeast. This technique is especially good if the second batch is a higher gravity, 'big' beer, it gives you both the huge starter and also prepares the yeast more for the high gravity than by doing a standard smaller starter. Mark Tumarkin The Brewery in the Jungle Gainesville, FL Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 09:41:41 -0500 From: Saul Laufer <laufers at vaniercollege.qc.ca> Subject: Agar and yeast ranching With the recent and ongoing thread on yeast and yeast ranching I thought I'd ask if anybody knew whether a Nutrient Agar (23 grams per liter) could be used as a slant material. The breakdown of the 23 grams is: Pancreatic Digest of Gelatin-5 grams; Beef Extract-3 grams; Agar-15 grams. I was in touch recently with David Draper about this and he suggested a test on a small quantity of wort but thought it probably would be okay as a growth medium. (An excellent idea but because there seemed to be some very knowledgable people commenting on propagating yeast I thought I would ask). BTW any would be ranchers would do well to download his short article on Culturing Yeast that is available at his website. I have followed his straighforward instructions and have always been successful. No autoclaving, and while he has recently been using agar the article initially was for gelatin as a growth medium. The reason I ask about Nutrient Agar is that I found out that I can have, gratis, a neverending supply. Saul Laufer Montreal, Canada Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 09:46:30 -0500 From: kathy <kbooth at scnc.waverly.k12.mi.us> Subject: Proper Irish Moss use I've read that you should hydrate your Irish Moss before adding, and a couple of questions come to mind. Is the day before necessary or is 15' in hot water enuf? After hydration there is a jellied mass. Can this be dumped in the boiling wort intact or does it need to be stirred into solution with hot fluids and then added? cheers, jim booth, lansing, mi Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 10:47:22 -0500 From: kathy <kbooth at scnc.waverly.k12.mi.us> Subject: Brewer customs I hate to risk restarting the LABCO discussion so please don't, but is it one of the customs of brewing, that recipe publication is the perogative of the originating brewer? I'm not talking about the LAW, but what is the industry custom? I believe it was stated on the HBD without challenge that the originating brewer had "rights" by custom. Are there other "customs" of the brewers guild that us novices should know? cheers, jim booth, lansing,mi kbooth at waverly.k12.mi.us Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 11:45:32 -0500 From: "Michael Gerholdt" <gerholdt at ait.fredonia.edu> Subject: On leaving the Hops Behind Aaron Spurlock made an inquiry about racking off of the hop pellet sludge and break material, and wrote in HBD 2565: >I boiled the wort with the pellet hops, and cooled the wort over about 30-40 minutes to 68F in an ice bath. Once that was done, I stirred the wort in a circle to get all the "gunk" into the center of the pot Aaron, your method here could be altered a bit. Do a *gentle* whirlpool stirring at the beginning of your cold bath. There's no need for it to be vigorous, and there's no need for it to be fast enough that it stirs up all the stuff at the bottom back into the wort. Just make sure that the wort is moving in a circular fashion. Then let it sit, and don't disturb it until ready to rack off. This will accomplish three things: 1) the motion of the wort will provide quicker cooling in the early stages, plus more even cooling throughout the wort; 2) the deposit of matter in a cone near the center of the pot will be achieved; 3) even after the circular motion of the wort has ceased, for the last 20 minutes or so of the bath, solids will drop out. There will be some differences in temps in the wort from top to bottom and center to edge. Don't worry about this or try to get it all even. Leave the wort undisturbed. Use a probe thermometer to measure different locations. When the top is at about 105 F or so, you should be ready to think about racking, since it will be colder elsewhere. Of course, YMMV depending on the vessel you are using and how cold ice gets in your neighborhood, etc. If you do this, when your ice bath is complete your wort will also be fairly clear and not much in the way of solids near the side of the vessel. Skip the muslin bag or any other filter, and don't do any more stirring! Be as unobtrusive as you can. Use a racking cane with a standoff tip, and rack from the side of the vessel. Stick the bottom of the cane halfway down, rack away, and then make sure you stay ahead of the surface of the wort as it gets closer to the bottom. You may need, at the very last, to tip the vessel toward the cane to get all the liquid you want; and you may even suck some of the solids in. That's when it's time to stop racking. Getting a little of the hops into the primary never bothered me. I figured I paid for them, might as well get a little more out of them. In response to Aaron, Mark Nelson wrote in HBD 2567: >I've never been very successful with pellet hops and siphoning them out. To make a short story long, I resort to funneling everything into the primary, letting the ferment go with all that trub for the first 3 or so days, then going to secondary. I figure this gets the beer off of the trub before it can cause too many problems. Have you never had a problem with this "fermentus interruptus?" I'd not recommend this because by disturbing the yeast during this time, you may prematurely bring fermentation to an end or slow it considerably. Are your final gravities as low as you expect? If not, this _may_ be a factor. Try adapting the procedure I described above to your equipment and system. Once everything is in primary, don't disturb the yeast until you are sure primary fermentation is complete. This time can vary, and there may be times when three days is sufficient. But leaving virtually any primary undisturbed for a full week will have no ill effects AFAIK. I virtually never use any filtering devices or clarifying agents of any sort other than time and gravity, and have been quite satisfied. An interesting side note: I have been boiling 5 gallons on stovetop with two burners. The stove has a SS back to it with a SS shelf above - a little commercial stove. Because of this, the back part of the pot boils more vigorously than the front, and the convection produced in the pot does me the favor of depositing everything in conical fashion in the center of the pot. I discovered this when I experimented with just doing an ice bath with no whirlpooling. It takes me about 20 minutes longer to get to racking pitching temp, but the since I don't have to disturb the wort at all, it clears very nicely. And most of the crud is already in as good a cone as I ever produced by whirlpooling. Newtonian physics is our friend . . . Michael Gerholdt in western New York state Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 21:41:11 -0400 From: nathan_l_kanous_ii at ferris.edu Subject: Finnicky ferment How do you spell finnicky? Anyhow, I've cultured yeast from a bottle of commercial beer. I made a starter, but I think I stepped up way to quick. >From a slant I went to about 80 ml of sterile wort. After that had fermented for a few days, I stepped it up to 1 quart (roughly). I now have a starter that tastes and smells fine. It isn't fermenting well, though. I have a 2 liter flask. It shows very little activity. If I swirl the flask it will blow the stopper / airlock out. It doesn't bubble. If I try to pitch this starter, will my beer do the same? What might I be able to do? Start over and step more slowly? TIA Nathan in Frankenmuth, MI Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 21:37:02 -0400 From: nathan_l_kanous_ii at ferris.edu Subject: Yeast from bottle conditioned beer I checked out the web site of "yeast from bottle conditioned beer" and didn't find my answer. I'm drinking a bottle of Blanche de Bruxelles Manneken Pis Belgian Wit beer. It is produced by Lefebvre Brewing. Anybody know whether the yeast is the primary strain? TIA Nathan in Frankenmuth. MI Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 12:27:37 -0500 From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: cleaning aluminum, yeast recovery Brewsters: Paul Kensler and Bob are discussing an effective way to safely clean aluminum brewpots. Paul suggests TSP ( tri-sodium phosphate). TSP is alkaline and a good dispersant for inorganic particles, and properly diluted may not be strongly basic enough to dissolve the protective oxide layer on the aluminum or to dissolve the aluminum. In high enough concentrations or warm it may present problems - I don't know, but am suspicious. Aluminum is a very reactive metal but is useful because it forms a = tough, protective oxide layer which prevents further reaction. When cleaning aluminum you should never use strongly basic cleaners like oven cleaners, lye or strong bleach as they will react with aluminum to dissolve this layer and the metal and produce sodium aluminate and hydrogen gas. Allowing an aluminum kettle to remain in contact with strong base and to sit in a closed area could possibly even present an explosion danger and at best destroy the surface and more of the kettle. Strongly acidic cleaners like muriatic acid (hydrochloric acid) will have a similar effect since aluminum is in that class of compounds = known as amphoteric and can react with both bases and acids. My aluminum mash kettle is very bright where the mash contacts it, but does exhibit that recalcitrant brownish layer above that area. = I always assumed the acids in the warm mash were sufficiently acidic to dissolve this layer. Perhaps a warm solution of acetic acid (distilled white vinegar) will remove the brownish layer if you find it disgusting. It doesn't bother me as I suspect it is just colori= ng components of the malt adsorbed on the aluminum oxide layer protecting the kettle. Those of us whose birthdates are before the sixties may remember those horrible, indestructible purple, pink, green and other colored anodized aluminum drinking vessels. This coloring was accomplished by staining the oxide layer with various dyes to produce the effect. - ---------------------------------------------------- I usually collect yeast from the secondary as it is much cleaner. = However, I have on occasion used it from the primary. To collect it, = You can add cold boiled water to the yeast to get a thick pourable slurry= and pour it out or better siphon it out to prevent possible contamination= from the neck of the carboy. Allow it to sit overnight in the refrigerator or for a day or two until all the yeast has resettled and pour off the *clear* liquid. Repeat this water addition and settling procedure at least = two more times until you are satisfied that the yeast is clean and has little organic material to support bacterial growth, then store it in a capped beer bottle in the refrigerator under a water layer. After I use= yeast several (3 to 5) times or it appears from tasting of the starter beer that the yeast is infected, I give it a bath in 1% tartaric acid (home brew store) containing 50ppm of sulfite derived from = sodium or potassium metabisulfite (homebrew store). = Some commercial craft brewers wash their yeast each time in 1% tartaric acid and some pitch this directly into the next batch. After removing the stored yeast from the refrigerator, pour off the water and give it 12 hours or longer in a starter to rejuvenate. = - ---------------------------------------------------- Keep on brewin' Dave Burley Kinnelon, NJ 07405 103164.3202 at compuserve.com Dave_Burley at compuserve.com = Voice e-mail OK = Return to table of contents
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