HOMEBREW Digest #2606 Sat 10 January 1998

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  RE: Keeping Warm (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Mixmasher (Jack Schmidling)
  Oven Mashing (Mark Riley)
  plastic buckets (AlannnnT)
  Re:Dubbel,Tripple (Rosalba e Massimo Faraggi)
  freezing Hops (Lizardhead)
  aerobic starters ("Hubert Hanghofer")
  Dry Ice  !!!!!!??? ("George A. Forsyth")
  Re: Keeping Warm (Ed Choromanski)
  Villainy and crass commercialism (Samuel Mize)
  Re: High Altitude Brewing Record ("Brian Rezac")
  Yeast Questions ("David Johnson")
  Blade Shearing / HSA (Kyle Druey)
  reverse osmosis. effectiveness? (Jon Bovard)
  Carbonation Question (LONF)
  Re: Corma and Historical Brewing Digest (Dan Cole)
  refractometer ("Norman L. Brewer")
  Late Addition ("Keith & JoAnn Zimmerman")
  Food Grade Plastics (Richard Byrnes)
  Infusion versus step mashing (Randy Lee)
  Food Grade HDPE (Tom Clark)
  Re: Lactic vs Phos acid (Joe Rolfe)
  Re: High Altitude Brewing Record (Spencer W Thomas)
  pooped yeast... (Lou Heavner)
  Mixmasher results (MacRae Kevin J)
  pH: when to measure/ chill haze/ boiling kettles (Adam Rich)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:05:33 -0600 From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) Subject: RE: Keeping Warm From: tonyw at Mass-USR.COM (Tony Willoughby) >1) What's the best source for heat? A light bulb seems the obvious solution, >but I'm concerned about the effect of light on my brew. .... >....what alternatives are there? Before I was fortunate to get two freezers this is how I did it: I placed the fermenter into a picnic cooler large enough to hold it, filled up with water (not so much that the fermenter floats!), and to cool it, placed 2 liter ice bottles as needed. To heat when the weather in LA changes (every second day), I used the heat from a small aquarium pump. The pump uses several watts (power to run it from the AC line). It is a submersible pump around $25.00 from fish store. The pump moves the water to even out the temps, and the small amount of heat from the pump is enough to keep the temperature up. >2) Thermostatic control. Has anyone come up with a solution for maintaining >an ale fermenting temperature? A Honeywell home-furnace type thermostat >would >be ideal, but I don't know how one would switch a 120v line with the 6 volt >thermostat. (I'm no electrician, but I think I could follow simple >directions. :^) I used a wall heating/cooling thermostat meant for central units. These are made to work with 24 volts control voltage, so I installed a small 24 vac transformer in a box with a 24 vac relay and used the thermostat to control heat and cooling. I had to manually switch from heat to cool depending on what was needed. The thermostat must be the electronic type with a thermistor sensing element. Most newer thermostats are now this type. I removed the sensor and added 4 foot of wire and placed it into 2 foot of vinyl tubing, folded the tubing in the middle to make a waterproof probe. I got tired of juggling the ice bottles, so riged up a smaller cooler for the ice water, and used the pump and thermostat to circulate the ice water. Worked pretty well, and with my bedroom window cracked open, I could hear the pump cycling in the backyard brewhouse. Actually helps me go off to sleep - sort of like hearing rain cures insomnia. Ron Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 10:18:45 -0800 From: Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net> Subject: Mixmasher From: Charlie Scandrett <merino at squirrel.com.au> Subject: Jack has invented an ANAGRAM(R)!! You got it. I looked at an old ringer wash machine, made few a minor changes, put it all in caps, added (R) and the MALTMILL(R) was born. BTW, the (R) has nothing to do with invention. It is a trademark registration. If someone wishes to sell these things, they have to call it something else or at least use lower case letters (I didn't invent them either). Did the same thing with a Kitchen Aid and false bottom I won't bore you with the details but there is also an EASYTESTER(R) for telescope nuts. "It wasn't overlooked, I have seem over a hundred in commercial and homebreweries.... I believe I was referring to the homebrew community. "For example, Jack turns the heat off at the target temperature and continues to mechanically stir an uninsulated metal vessel. When he turns it on again about 30 minutes later (half time at the footy?) the temperature has dropped considerably.(I know it doesn't happen to you Jack, but elsewhere, the laws of thermodynamics apply) This is a problem for homebrewers because we usually can't build direct fired vessels that are well insulated. On the other hand, as we are only making relatively small batches, the real cost of the heat loss using an un-insulated is not worth considering. My simplified explanation of how it can be used is not necessarily the way I acutally use it anymore than the instructions shipped with an EM are the way I brew beer. In actual practice, I do not necessarily shut off the heat. I know the system will enough by now to be able to set the flame at a level that just compensates for heat loss. " You could get the same result by bending the blades more like a ship's propeller and running at half the speed. That $30, 3" one I mentioned was precisely that. Ever price a 12" ship's propeller? The fan blade is a usable alternative that is practically free and off the shelf. "Mash Mixing needs insulation and automatic control of the heat source to approach the accuracy of RIMS in the homebrew environment..... But again I ask, can you taste that .01 degree accuracy? "What torque is necessary? Well, a washing machine runs at least twice as fast(4 times power load) with twice the volume (two times power load)on a 1/4 hp motor. Using a 1/16 hp would be plenty. Glad you asked.... I found the ID of the motor I used so I could look up the specs in the Granger catalog. I will add it to the web page when I get to it. As I said before, if I did it over I would get a larger one and it need not be reversable. Granger # 2Z814 RPM: 30 Torque: 10 in/lb HP: 1/100 110vac at .3a Price: $47 plus capacitor. "PS I agree with Jacks "greedy lawyers" comment. Ever tried getting a pressure vessel certified? It is basically an unfused bomb.... In this country anything with a line cord is basically an electric chair looking for a victim. - -- Visit our WEB pages: Beer Stuff.........http://ays.net/jsp Astronomy.......http://user.mc.net/arf ASTROPHOTO OF THE WEEK..... New Every Monday Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:45:16 -0800 From: Mark Riley <mriley at netcom.com> Subject: Oven Mashing All this talk about RIMS and MIXMASHING/MASHMIXING/MISHMASHING prompts me to describe what I do and that is OVENMASHING(R). ;-) I mash in a SS pot. Once I've reached my target temperature (either through infusion or kettle heating) I just place the whole pot into the oven. The thermostat in my oven allows me to set it to very low temperatures (I suspect not all ovens are capable of this, though). Since the ambient temperature in the oven is nominally the same as the mash, insulation isn't an issue. I do, however, check in on it every 15 minutes and give it a stir since I feel some stirring is necessary to make more starch and/or protiens available to the enzymes (can anyone comment on this?) Of course I didn't "invent" this technique, I'm just mentioning it here since there's been talk about "simple" and "low cost" mashing systems. I think it qualifies for both. Mark Riley The Beer Recipator - http://realbeer.com/brewery/recipator P.S. (USA only) Don't you actually have to *sell* something across state lines in order to trademark it? Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 16:28:54 EST From: AlannnnT <AlannnnT at aol.com> Subject: plastic buckets White food grade plastic buckets are available for free or almost free many places. [Homebrew bribes may have to be paid]. Dunkin' Donuts and other bakeries and donut shops use millions, literally. They throw them out, or give them away when used once. [around here they give them to commercial fisherman for free or almost free] The potato[e] salad and cole slaw at your grocery store or deli comes in the same. [add the letter e to potato if you have political aspirations.] Food flavors and extracts come in these buckets. Look in the yellow pages for commercial producers and users of extracts. School cafeterias use them alot. Peanut butter, mayonaisse, fruit concentrates, pickles, salads, etc., all come this way. It is best to leave them out in the sun awhile or soak them in mild bleach [let's not start that thread again], bleach works fine. The fruit flavors used at dunkin donuts are very tenacious, clean the buckets well! In my buisness we sell hundreds of these recycled buckets, and we don't pay more than the cost of picking them up and cleaning them out. Best Brewing Alan Talman Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 23:02:26 -0800 From: Rosalba e Massimo Faraggi <rosamax at split.it> Subject: Re:Dubbel,Tripple >I am looking for some enlightenment for the terms single, double, >triple,etc.. ... >I have heard 2 explanations on this >1) the terms relate to strength X, XX, XXX... but this does not explain the >fact that double is dark and triple is very pale but stronger >2) the terms indicate the number of fermentations included in the process.. I think 1) is right. Probably a few breweries called their beers in this way, but it is the Westmalle Trappist brewery that produced (and is producing) the two most famous and outstanding examples of beer with these names: a dark, malty but dry double and the strong pale triple. Many other breweries then started to imitate these beers (expecially the triple), so Westmalle set the prototype of these styles. "Triple fermentation" is a term that is sometime applied to some belgian beers (if I remember Orval, maybe Westmalle itself?) but I think it just means a normal primary fermentation, a further maturation - perhaps with another yeast addition - and then the bottle conditioning. Correct me if I am wrong. Massimo Faraggi Genova ITALY - don't know the miles from Westmalle, but surely closer to it than Jeff Renner! http://www.split.it/users/rosamax/ my beer page! Currently 10 doubles and 23 triples in the database of tasted beers. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 98 15:30:07 -0700 From: Lizardhead <memerson at fone.net> Subject: freezing Hops Greg is wondering about freezing hops. > I was wondering >if I could do more to save the aromatics. What's the lowest temperature >that they'll take? Cold storage is of course the best way to retain freshness and prevent oxidation of alpha acids. Commercial Hop merchants (Hop Union, Steiner, etc.) store their hops in bales at 26 - 31 degrees. Mostly on the lower end. Check out the temp on your freezer, it's probably pretty close to this range. Lower temperatures may make whole hop flowers (water content approx 8%) shatter more easily, but the lower water content of pellets make them far less suseptable to any freezing damage. Mark Youngquist Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 00:48:13 +0200 From: "Hubert Hanghofer" <hhanghof at netbeer.co.at> Subject: aerobic starters In HBD#2603 Charles Rich posted a nice article on easier sterile wort oxygenation for starters. I'll take the opportunity to share some of my experiences. I wasn't able to read the December issues of the HBD yet, so I apologize if this has been addressed already in the thread on "starters and pitching rate" (...and for being behind schedule...). Aeration / oxygenation is with no doubt a critical step in many brewing systems. Unlike beer, wort with all its unspent nutrients and the high pH is not a very selective medium - a wide variety of microorganisms can get a foothold and if this happens already in the starter... The safest way for me to keep starters sterile and - in the same way - maximize yeast performance, is to leave the aeration / oxygenation step but use conventional *aerobic culturing* instead - that is: maintainig a small amount of oxygen in the starter culture, usually done in an erlenmeyer flask that's sealed with a ball of cotton wool and shaken continuously on an expensive Lab-machine. The thread on starters gave me a great idea in doing so at home: magnetic stirring! I prepare 500mL (1 pint) of P6-8 (SG 1.020-1.030) starter wort in a 1000mL erlenmeyer, add a magnetic stirrer (4cm =3D 1.55" teflon coated) cover it with an inverted glass-cup, boil for 15 minutes and cool. I use a small camping burner for boiling - lab grade glassware (Duran, Schott) won't burst. Keeping the glass in place on top all the time - everything is hermetic so far. ...But now the invaders get their chance for 5 seconds or so - need I worry? -I remove the glass beaker, add the yeast, and seal with the cotton ball. I've done aerobic culturing before but I only made 4 starters with magnetic stirring so far. I applied 3 inoculation methods however and all gave the same results: 1) blown Wyeast package W2278, W3333 2) Yeast from the surface of a slant (local wheat variety), suspended using a few mL of sterile water (filtered <0.2um, using a Sartorius Minisart syringe filter). 3) 3 inoculation loops full of plated yeast (local lager strain - from the bottle of a delicious unfiltered "Stiegl Paracelsus"). I always stirr at 250-350 rpm, the vortex didn't trap in air bubbles. The stirred starter cultures are kept at 20C (68F) and never show any foam. Within one day the starters get turbid. When I stop stirring, they flocculate and show some CO2 , but I get the maximum of yeast on the second day - yeast flakes become visible during stirring and when I stop it, I get +50mL of sediment. The lager starters were droped to 15C on this 2nd day. The aroma of aerobic cultures is somehow strange, I'd describe it as sour (no infection, just other metabolics, I keep an eye on my partner with my microscope). -So 2nd day is brew day and I step up to 800-1000mL (1 quart) with P12 (SG 1.048) wort made from first runnings (diluted, boiled and chilled - using another erlenmeyer). This is just 3-4 hours before pitching but it's the final push for the yeast. The vortex collapses (need to order that 2000mL Erlenmeyer soon) and the yeast begins to foam. I pitched 50L so the pitching rate with this final starter volume was 1:50 in every case. The lag time (first signs of foam) of the ales (pitched and fermented at 20-22C) was <10hrs, the lagers were pitched at 16C and put in a 12C basement ...sorry, fall asleep during watching for the lag time but must have been <16hrs. I should mention that the whole process from striking the plate with the Paracelsus yeast until pitching the batch was exactly 7 days ...7 days of healthy aerobic conditions for the yeast! I used open fermentation for the wheat, an air locked HDPE cask for the lagers, bottled green after one week, aged warm (18-20C) for another 5-7 days to allow the yeast to clean up the fermentation by products, then crash cooled to 0C for another week. BTW, when harvesting the yeast and cleaning the fermenter, don't forget to remove that magnetic stirrer, that has slipped out of the erlenmeyer and dropped into the wort when you pitched the starter ;) 1 lager and 1 wheat has already been evaluated and found to be very clean. But we were particularly impressed by the microscopic exploration and evaluation of the bottle sediment. It was very clean, even after treatment with 5%KOH to remove protein, I hardly could find my enemy. When abusing anaerobic (air-locked) starters by not stepping up and underpitching at a rate of 1:50 I usually got lag times >16hrs and saw some invaders among my beloved yeasties. - Some rods of lactic bacteria with open fermentation while the strictly anaerobic coccus bacteria mainly count in closed fermented beers. Their count was far below any level that would affect flavor or aroma, but they *are* there ...staring at me through the microscope, telling me: "hey brewboy, next time we beat you and you better drink this one soon..." Yeast loves aerobic conditions, the process of anaerobic fermentation is stress for them but yeasts are perfect machines: if well prepared for their big job, nothing can stop them anymore. ***** Provide a healthy yeast population that's vital and ready for defence: _keep your starter culture aerobic until at least 50% attenuation has been reached_! ***** ...If you can't purchase pre-packed cotton Sterilizing cotton wool: 1) The crude method: -seen and practised in the lab of a Bavarian wheat brewery. Ignit it and seal the Erlenmeyer flask with the burning cotton! Take care of your fingers and your brewery. 2) The secure method: I pack my portions in SelfSeal ViewPacks by Lawson Mardon (U.K.) Ltd. Those sealed packs can be sterilized with steam (autoclave) or Ethylenoxide and usually are used to pack medical tools for sterilization and keeping them sterile during storage. Source for cheap magnetic stirrers: Read the article on building one by John Schnupp in HBD#2570 CHEERS & sehr zum Wohle! Hubert in Salzburg, Austria http://www.netbeer.co.at/beer/ BTW, I re-pitched all my magnetic stirrers, anyone a good and cheap resource? Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 17:52:52 -0600 From: "George A. Forsyth" <gforse at nevia.net> Subject: Dry Ice !!!!!!??? Okay, after lurking off and on for several years, my first post. I am a novice brewer for some time. I do primarily "kit beers", ales with single stage fermentation and simple equipment which has satisfied my tastes for some time. Eventually, I may branch out, but for now, that is where I am. My question concerns a practice which a friend of mine swears by. He lets the fermentation of whatever he is brewing (none of which I've actually sampled) go until completed, (no SG readings) and charges his brew by adding a small piece of dry ice (!) to each bottle immediately before capping. Has anyone heard of such a thing? I think it sounds dangerous and irresponsible. Also he would like to find a filter medium which would filter dead and live yeast out of his beer. Does such a medium exist? I would think anything that fine would take impossibly long to filter because of the small pore size. Comments?? Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 13:03:48 +0000 From: Ed Choromanski <choroman at voicenet.com> Subject: Re: Keeping Warm Tony: I do not have a basement or a location where I can put a fermenter and have constent temperature (let alone the right temp). I have recently solved this problem for the cool brewing season. I went to Walmart and purchased a trash can big enough to hold my 6.5 gal primary. I fill this up with water halfway up the carboy. Then I lower into the water a fish tank heater, a 50 watt heater should be fine (which was previously set to the desired temp in a bucket of water). Depending on the ambient temp, this may be all that you need, I wrap the trash can with insulation I had laying around. Have done this with 2 batches so far and works great. Happy Brewing, Ed Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 06:30:31 -0500 (EST) From: tonyw at Mass-USR.COM (Tony Willoughby) Subject: Keeping Warm I've got two problems that prevent me from fully enjoying brewing... Maintaining a consistent temperature of my primaries and secondaries... 1) What's the best source for heat? 2) Thermostatic control. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 17:56:10 -0600 (CST) From: Samuel Mize <smize at prime.imagin.net> Subject: Villainy and crass commercialism Greetings to all. I keep hearing these wild accusations about Jack Schmidling. So I reviewed his 1997. For an analysis, email me. Best, Sam Mize - -- Samuel Mize -- smize at imagin.net -- Team Ada Fight Spam - see http://www.cauce.org/ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:20:27 -0700 From: "Brian Rezac" <brian at aob.org> Subject: Re: High Altitude Brewing Record In Reference to: > > On August 30, 1997, 8 members of the Tribe Homebrew Club of Longmont, > > Colorado brewed a batch of beer on Colorado's highest peak, Mt Elbert > > (elev. 14,433 ft.) in an endeavor they termed OPERATION: Hypoxia. Scott Kaczorowski wrote: > I apologize for the complete lack of content, but: :-) Are there > pictures? What a worthy endeavor! We do have photos! They're on the web at the Tribe's homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/4003/ At the homepage scroll down and click on "OPERATION: Hypoxia". Once there be sure to view the other photos by clicking on "MORE" at the bottom of the page. > A question about Mt. Elbert: What's the delta el and distance? For Mt. > Whitney (14,495ft), it's something like 6,100ft of elevation from the > trailhead to the top with 14 (11?) miles of trail. It takes all but the > strongest backpackers two days to get all the way up. OTOH, the water > could be pumped at Trail Camp, at about 11,500ft (?). Hmm...Anybody want > to coordinate something like this with me? If my memory serves me, the trailhead's elevation was 10,050 ft. and the peak of Mt. Elbert is 14,433 ft. So the difference is about 4,400 ft. It was a distance of about 4.5 miles. I was among the last of the commandos to get to the top and it took me 6 hours. (I was a water bearer...I have two bad knees...I had a rock in my shoe... I can post more excuses later as I think of them.) We were up and down all in one day, but we started at dawn and finished after dark. > Also: Can it be an extract batch? I think all-grain would have a higher > niftyness factor, but obviously extra equipment and water. I say: AG > Imperial Stout. Lessee...we're gonna need a half dozen Whisperlites, <snip> > ...and complete lack of regard for what this whole thing might actually entail. We brewed a dry malt extract based barleywine. Once your on the trail, the "higher niftyness factor" diminishes considerably. I'm sure that once you committ to attempt Mt. Whitney, the Tribe members would be happy to share their aquired equipment knowledge. (We did a little trick with the burner.) > Honestly, any CA backpacking homebrewers want to take a run at this in > the late Summer? ...<snip>... success is not assured, but worth a shot, no? > > Scott Kaczorowski > Long Beach, CA > kacz at nfs.aisf.com Sincerely, Good Luck! Keep me updated on your progress and let me know if there's anyway the AHA can help you. - Brian Brian Rezac Administrator American Homebrewers Association (303) 447-0816 x 121 (voice) 736 Pearl Street (303) 447-2825 (fax) Boulder, CO 80302 brian at aob.org (e-mail) U.S.A. http://beertown.org (web) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 20:48:23 -0600 From: "David Johnson" <dmjalj at inwave.com> Subject: Yeast Questions Brewers, I obtained a quart of yeast slurry from a local lager brewery. I was given a quart of slurry the brewer said that it had 85% yeast and that was 90% viable as he had checked it that morning. He also made a comment about the maximum pitching rate and said when he does a maximum fermentation he uses 32 gm. of dry yeast in 200 ml. wort. He said that is maximum fermentation and any more yeast would be too much. He suggested that I stay below that and probably about half. Well I calculate that for a 5 (US) gal the max (as he figures) would be about 3 kg or 6.6 lbs. My quart of yeast slurry weighed about 1 kg or 2.2 lbs. There does not seem to be much settling and almost all of that seems to be yeast. So I am ready for this weekends CAP. Do I need to do anything special to get this ready to put on slant or can I just get a loopful and spread it on? Dave in Monroe, WI Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 22:13:47 -0800 From: Kyle Druey <druey at ibm.net> Subject: Blade Shearing / HSA -Blade Shearing In Charlie Scandrett's informative post from yesterday he brings up some design challenges associated with mash mixing and possibly RIMS: >The heat transfer problem is the formation of boundary layers and the >overheating of them. The speed necessary for turbulent flow to prevent >these boundary layers is greater than the optimum for low oxidation and >shear degradation. Here is a reference on shear degradation (Fix, "An Analysis of Brewing Techniques", p 25): "Of particular relevance to mashing is the need to avoid shearing forces created by excess stirring, as they have negative impact on enzymatic activity." If the mixing is slowed enough to avoid a vortex and shearing, then perhaps now the flow is laminar producing boundary layers and uneven heating (the thermodynamicists out there please correct me if I am wrong). Here is a reference which relates to temperature gradients in the mash (Fix, same, p. 26): "In some mashing systems, precise temperature control is problematic, which creates a situation where two or more temperature regimes may coexist in the mash at a given rest. In such circumstances, yields, RDFs, and other data can vary in erratic and unpredictable ways." This may relate to mash mixing, but does it relate to RIMS? Does the liquid part of the mash that is recirculated create the same shearing problems as with mixing? Charlie also indicated that some professionals believed that RIMS was problematic to the stability of the finished beer. I am not sure what that means, but I would like to know and compare this information with my RIMS beers. I am not doubting him, I just have never heard this :>). If this shearing is problematic with RIMS, perhaps the solution is to minimize flow during temp rests, and only run at high flow during temp boosts. ************************************************************************* -HSA Jack S on HSA during mashing: >Like so many other buzzwords, HSA makes great raw material for >articles and books but I am skeptical as to how it applies to the >relatively slow movement and temperatures we deal with during mash. I was able to find one reference on HSA: "We also can control the amount of oxygen uptake and the amount of hot-side abuse that takes place during mashing. The evidence documenting the negative effects of hot-side aeration is extensive." (Fix, same, p 25) This can lead to the following problems: *Off Flavors* >Oxidation (HSA)is caused by any formation of a vortex or any folding >turbulence that includes air. The test for this is simply to observe >the motion. Shear forces form whenever an agitator blade moves faster >than the fluid can flow past. These forces can squash and degrade large >complex molecules, causing flavour problems. I believe much of the >"sewer/ onion"" aroma of Australian industrial beers is caused by the >willy nilly use of centrifuges in the relentless search of cheaper, >faster beer. (This was from Charlie Scandrett's post, I know what I have read supports his statements, but I would like to see some references.) *Limited Protein Degradation* "It was once believed that the traditional protein rest was of limited value, and data were presented to support this conclusion. This was in direct conflict with other data that showed there was significant proteolytic activity during rests at 113-140 F. Hot-side aeration was the key in resolving this conflict. In a gentle low oxygen mashing system, protein degradation does take place, but in a less favorable environment, this may not be the case." (Fix, same, p. 25) Perhaps the enzyme and mashing experts can offer explanations why this would be a problem. I am sure this info on protein rests will spark some debate. At the very least, it is important to design your RIMS or blade mixing system to be a "gentle low oxygen mashing system". Fix offers the following references on HSA: Narziss, Brauwelt, 1993, #3 Huige, Beer and Wine Production, 1992 Fix, Zymurgy 15:5, 1992 It would be nice if someone who has these references could post some info on HSA from them. This would be good info for later referencing in the HBD archives. As Jack S pointed out, RIMS is subjected to HSA just as is mix mashing. With RIMS, the key is to ensure no air is entrained on the suction side of the pump, and to design the wort return manifold so that the exit velocity is slow enough to avoid wort foaming. It can be done very easily, look at the many web pages that have pictures of the proper return manifold design. *********************************************************************** Kyle Druey Bakersfield, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1987 04:09:53 +1100 From: Jon Bovard <j.bovard at student.qut.edu.au> Subject: reverse osmosis. effectiveness? My water weighs in at about 260-360 ppm dissoved solids. HARD HARD HARD. My new reverse osmosis filter brings it down below 50ppm. Would you consider this effective. Has/does anyone uses these, will it dramatically alter the taste of my mashed beers. Afterall water constitutes 90% of beer? cheers JB in stagnant brisbane Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 02:19:44 EST From: LONF <LONF at aol.com> Subject: Carbonation Question In Eric Warner's book, "German Wheat Beer," he discusses carbonating those beers by priming with "speise"--unfermented wort. In calculating the amount of speise to use, the book makes a number of references to the percentage (by weight) of carbon dioxide that is desired in the beer. Mr. Warner advises that a normal weissbier will have carbon dioxide of .7% by weight. Most other texts talk about carbonation in terms of volumes of carbon dioxide (e.g., weissbier usually has between 3 and 3.5 volumes of carbon dioxide). My question is, does anybody know the correlation between percentage by weight of carbon dioxide and volumes of that gas? What is the formula for conversion from one measurement to the other? Private e-mail is fine. Thanks in advance. Nick Franke Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 05:33:23 -0500 From: Dan Cole <dcole at roanoke.infi.net> Subject: Re: Corma and Historical Brewing Digest HBD'ers I appreciate everyone's help with my questions about Korma. The most definitive response that I got (thanks Grant W. Knechtel) was that corma is actually a quick, dry mead (described by Pliny the Elder no less). Since it wasn't given the time to age, it was probably loaded with higher alcohols and phenols from spontaneous, high temperature fermentation, which definately can be a recipe for headaches. Also, after my post, I have been deluged (if 4 qualifies as a deluge) by requests for information on how to subscribe to the historical brewing digest. I have pasted the subscription information and the response you get from the majordomo below. One word, the volume on this list is very low, typically one message every 3-4 days. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ To Subscribe: Send e-mail message with "subscribe hist-brewing-digest" to majordomo at rt.com. - --I've pasted in the major domo reply information below-- Welcome to the hist-brewing-digest mailing list! If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to "Majordomo" with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe hist-brewing-digest Here's the general information for the list you've subscribed to, in case you don't already have it: Welcome to the Historical Brewing mailing list. This mailing list is intended to be used for discussions of any form of brewing which is not "modern". Although the guy who runs the list (me) is primarily interested in Europe between 500 and 1600 A.D., I hope that other times and places are also discussed. Commercial ads and spam are not welcome. If you're not sure if something is appropriate, ask me and I'll let you know. This list is archived -- all your contributions are saved verbatim and are available via ftp and the world wide web. The web page and ftp site for medieval/renaissance brewing are at: http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/brewing.html ftp://www.pbm.com/pub/sca/brewing I am also accumulating an annotated bibliography of books and other materials relevant to historical brewing. If you know of anything relevant, please consider typing up the particulars and sending them to me. Finally, this list is also available in an un-digested form, which means that you receive each message separately. To subscribe to that list, subscribe to the "hist-brewing" mailing list. Greg Lindahl (known in the SCA as Gregory Blount) lindahl at pbm.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 06:25:23 -0500 From: "Norman L. Brewer" <nlbrewe at gti.net> Subject: refractometer Greetings, I got a hand-held refractometer for Christmas. It measures 0-32 degrees = Brix, which I think corresponds to weight percent sucrose in water. I = found a formula on the web for converting this reading to specific = gravity (gravity =3D 0.9988 + Brix * .00425. Does anyone have more = information about predicting real wort gravity from Brix? =20 Regards, Norm Brewer Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 03:42:37 -0600 From: "Keith & JoAnn Zimmerman" <keithzim at computron.net> Subject: Late Addition Had a fellow home brewer tell me that he sometimes adds a couple of pounds of dry malt extract to his wort at the end of the boil. He claims this adds body to the beer. I know that some people prime with malt but have never heard of this before. Some of the brews I've entered in competitions have come back with comments stating my beer needs a more malty taste. Does anyone out there have any experience with this and what exactly it does for your Brew? Keith Zimmeman - Lake Jackson, Texas - KEITHZIM at computron.net Return to table of contents
Date: 08 Jan 1998 08:01:01 -0500 From: Richard Byrnes <rbyrnes2 at ford.com> Subject: Food Grade Plastics Pat Babcock Writes... >While we're discussing food grade colors, I have a BLACK HDPE bucket that >originally contained Durkee taco seasoning. Color has no bearing. Sheesh Pat, and you thought my beers had a "house" flavor, well this certainly explains your last Graf Vienna! (heh heh heh, that's a joke son, a knee slapper!) Rich Byrnes about 20 miles east, give or take, from Spencer Thomas and Jeff Renner Fermental Order of Renaissance Draughtsmen Regards,_Rich Byrnes Jr Pre-Production Systems Analyst \\\|/// phone #(313)390-9369, fax #390-4520_______o000_(.) (.)_000o rbyrnes2 at ford.com (_) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 07:51:58 -0600 From: Randy Lee <rjlee at imation.com> Subject: Infusion versus step mashing Now here's a discussion that I'd like to see a *lot* more about. I recall a discussion about a brewpub? out west somewhere (my memory is good, just short) that started out with infusion, went to step and went back to single infusion due to problems with haze and the like. I assume that this has to do with particular grains rather than the theoretical limits of the techniques. What I'd love to see from the collective is a list of malts that can cope with single infusion and ones that require step infusion. Or better yet an explaination from the better educated (beer theory wise) of us which indicators point to which technique can/should be used. Perhaps Jethrow can pull himself out of his "studies" long enough to ask the question at Seibels. I do notice that he hasn't had much time to comment very much as intended ;-) Anyway, this subject is one that is near and dear to my heart, but I haven't had the depth of training to answer the question yet. I'd be happy to compile the list and present it back on this forum if I can some input from the collective.... Randy Lee Viking Brewing Company Dallas, WI. rjlee at imation.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 09:46:14 -0500 From: Tom Clark <rtclark at eurekanet.com> Subject: Food Grade HDPE Many deli's and bakeries get their icings and many other products in 5 gallon buckets. These of course are food grade HDPE. Our local Kroger store usually has a few available. We also have a large donut place nearby where HDPE buckets are used. Check at such places near your home. They may charge a token amount for them. (.50 - $1.00) but, you can be more sure of the quality. Tom Clark Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 09:48:55 -0500 (EST) From: Joe Rolfe <onbc at shore.net> Subject: Re: Lactic vs Phos acid >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 20:07:08 -0600 >From: "Raymond C. Steinhart" <rnr at popmail.mcs.net> >Subject: Lactic versus phosporic acid > >What would be better for pH adjustment of sparge water? >Lactic or Phosphoric Acid? >Where can I get Phosphoric Acid? >I am running in the mid 9's after boiling my water and beleive I am in >the 75 to 150 ppm of total hardness. while doing some test brews with reasonably soft water and ph in the mid 7 range i tried both. i could not detect much if any difference. i used to add it to the mash tun (enuf to get a ph of 5.5) and then again to the kettle if required to get 5.4ish pre boil ph) . niether volume was large (~20ml undiluted to a mash of about 100gal volume and same for a kettle vol of 160gal). i never did get a chance to send the beers out for full testing, but a taste pannel we set up could not find any differences flavour wise. clarity onthe other hand appeared to be better with lactic. not sure is this has much to do with the "rumor" that phos causes a decrease in calcium - as the final testing was never done. my mentor and others in the biz leaned tword lactic just for the fact is is more compatible with grain in the mash. after that i did use lactic more for process and phos for acid washing tanks. small qty of either was difficult to find (i was looking for say 1 gal of each) i found some places that would sell large drums, but a min qty for a reasonable price was 5gal. some homwbrew stores might have small qty (litre or so). i think both were around a $10/gal but i dont have the invoices here.... good luck and experiment your process and water is way different than mine. joe rolfe Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 10:01:24 -0500 From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu> Subject: Re: High Altitude Brewing Record And maybe some CA homebrewers can go for the "low altitude" brewing record in Death Valley, eh? Hmm. I wonder if it's possible to brew on a submarine.... :-) =S Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 08:58:04 -0600 From: lheavner at tcmail.frco.com (Lou Heavner) Subject: pooped yeast... From Ron LaBorde: >>>>If your bock was OG way up there, say, 1.070 or so, probably you would need a fresh yeast. I have read that Dopplebocks, etc., wear out a yeast. I really do not understand this, I have really eaten a lot at partys and I wasn't worn out.!!!! Since you had a relatively normal OG, I would go ahead and reuse the yeast.<<<< Well Ron, Imagine that the party lasted a week to 10 days, you were locked in a room with many many other partiers, and all you had to eat was chili and bean dip, same as everybody else! Now further imagine that there was an airlock on the window, so some fumes could leave, but no fresh air could enter. Tell me how anxious you'd be to do it all over again!! ;) Lou - born again coon-ass brewing in Austin, TX (formerly unincorporated Travis county) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:17:04 -0500 From: MacRae Kevin J <kmacrae at UF2269P01.PeachtreeCityGA.NCR.COM> Subject: Mixmasher results I've attempted two batches with a modified Mixmasher system. In my first trial, not wanting to fool with dangerous AC current, I used the motor from a DC powered pencil sharpener. It was a bit underpowered. I thought 'more power is good' so I used the V8 out of an old truck parked on the lawn. Also upgraded the plastic fan blade to use the stainless (plastic would scratch and allow bacteria to grow) feathering prop off a neighbors 40 foot Catalina. I must have had it going in reverse because the mash un-mixed, fully separating. The grain reformed into whole kernals and went back into the husks. That will teach me to walk away and watch a football game. In batch #2, I recrushed the malt, I've got to motorize that thing! 26 lbs took me almost 30 minutes, with some power I could probably get that down to 30 seconds. Well, I fired up the MonsterMixer(TM) and all looked good for a while. Good stir, nice mixing. Then the most amazing thing happened. The downward force of the boat prop started pulling the engine into the mash. Obviously the railroad ties I mounted the engine on couldn't hold up to the power of the mighty Ford. The whole contraption collapsed inward on itself creating a black hole on my porch. It sucked all lite for miles around. That's right lite- Bud, Miller, Coors... Lite. All Lite beer has disappeared from the shelves. Neighbors who never appreciated my homebrew are now knocking on my door begging for some. For reference both were 18 gallon batches with about 26 lbs of grain in a 10 gallon Gott. Well I'm out a cooler, truck engine, half sack of Pilsner malt and neighbors are rapidly depleting my hb reserves. Not bad for the a trial run. Kevin MacRae Kevin.MacRae at PeachtreeCityGA.NCR.COM Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 09:48:25 -0600 From: Adam Rich <rich.adam at mayo.edu> Subject: pH: when to measure/ chill haze/ boiling kettles Hello Everyone: I have a simple question that I have wondered about for some time. When do I measure th the pH of my mash, and sparge water? I know that the mash pH should be between 5.1 and 5.7, and that I take a small sample of the wort, let it cool to room temperature, then measure the pH. I usually take the sample a few minutes after starting the mash. How about sparge water? Should I take it before heating, after heating, then cooling my small sample, or at 170 F? Certainly a higher temperature will affect the pH reading, so measuring the pH of hot water is out. I have been merely adjusting the pH before heating. Is this the common practice? Finally, I am becoming more critical of my methodology because my single infusion (typically 157 F) english-style ales consistently have chill haze. I suspect it might result from several problems: 1) sparging with nearly boiling water (maybe it is starch? I do batch-sparging and I do it fast so that the top of the grain bed gets hot but the bottom never does, hence the 'overheated' water), or 2) high pH while mashing/ sparging (maybe I have 'large' proteins thus contributing to the chill haze). Finally, what is the bets place to buy a 5-7 gallon brew kettle? How much should I expect to pay? I have pretty much ruled out stainless since it costs too much. How about enamel or aluminum? I currently have a 4 gallon stainless and am mighty tired of boil overs! thanks, Adam Rich Adam Rich, PhD Home: Department of Physiology 855 First St. NW Guggenheim 8 Rochester, MN 55901 Mayo Clinic 200 First St SW Rochester, MN 55905 Return to table of contents
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