HOMEBREW Digest #2612 Sat 17 January 1998

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Help with a water analysis (Eddie Kent)
  Can mash efficiency be over 90%? ("J.W. Schnaidt")
  corny serilizing ("Thomas, Andrew R")
  Pasteurising cornie kegs (Randy Ricchi)
  RE: Newbie Questions, Vol 2 (Mark Weaver)
  December 97 Brewing Techniques (Alan McKay)
  infusion vs. step mashing (Troy Hager)
  Pasteurizing a cornie ("Pat Babcock")
  RECIPES NEEDED (Mark Weaver)
   (Mark Pfortmiller)
  Yeast Behavior ("David Johnson")
  Water Chemistry & 3/4 ton full floating axle (William Graham)
  RE yeast question (Clifton Moore)
  Re: MIXMASHER vs RIMS (Scott Murman)
  re:overcarbed cornie (haafbrau1)
  HSA during mashing/lautering ("Dave Draper")
  Beer and Spam and MCAB (Dean_Goulding)
  RIMS temperature gradient (Dion Hollenbeck)
  Weyermann,runoff,Temp differential, ("David R. Burley")
  Re: Over-carbonated Cornie (Margie and Dave Ludwig)
  dough in (Al Korzonas)
  roasted malt help (michael rose)
  RE: Trademarks, HSA (LaBorde, Ronald)
  re: mix sham  -- ANAGRAM(R) ("Rich, Charles")
  Infusion Mash in GOTT 10 Gallon ("Lee, Ken")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 15:54:28 -0600 From: Eddie Kent <ebk1 at earthlink.net> Subject: Help with a water analysis I recently got a water analysis from my local water company (Houston, TX M.U.D.#163) and they gave me the following: arsenic .0025 mg/l sodium 35 mg/l barium .2110 mg/l sulfate 9 mg/l iron .0259 mg/l total hardness / CACO3 147 mg/l zinc .0082 mg/l PH 6.6 calcium 52 mg/l dil. conduct (unhos/cm) 474 chloride 44 mg/l tot. Alka. as CACO3 156 mg/l fluoride 0.2 mg/l bicarbonate 190 mg/l magnesium 4 mg/l carbonate 0 mg/l nitrate(as N) 0.16 mg/l dissolved solids 240 mg/l p. alkalinity / CACO3 0 mg/l I need some help as to water treatment when brewing a pale ale ( I brew mainly IPA's and PA's). Currently I use 1 T gypsum and 1/4 t salt per 5 gallons of tap water after boiling and letting sit overnight. Any help would be appreciated by posting or private e-mail. Also, I currently have a batch of honey ale ( not enough time for an all grain, I was lazy- its an extract batch with 10 lbs of Light LME, 2lbs of unfiltered honey, 1/2 lb. 60 degree crystal , and 2 lbs Carapils, 1oz fuggles 15 min., 1oz hallertau 30 min. 1 oz. hallertau 45 min, 1 hr boil) in the secondary. The OG was 1.068 and at transfer after 7 days the SG was 1.030. I aerated the wort with 2 one minute blasts of O2 with an oxygenator before pitching the yeast (wyeast 1056 ale) in the primary and the ferment has been at 68 to 70 degrees. There seems to be no activity in the secondary and there is still a strong honey flavor- should I repitch some more yeast or just wait a week or two in the secondary? Again any help would be appreciated by post or private e-mail. - -- Eddie Kent ebk1 at earthlink.com Listening to someone who brews their own beer is like listening to a religious fanatic talk about the day he saw the light. -Ross Murray, Montreal Gazette- Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 16:33:38 -0600 From: "J.W. Schnaidt" <tuba at gwtc.net> Subject: Can mash efficiency be over 90%? This past Sunday, I completed my very first all grain batch. Everything went very well. I was suprised at the simplicity of it all. After reading about it, thinking, studying and buying the proper equipment, it all seemed to be much simpler than I had imagined. The question I have concerns mash efficiency. I'm not concerned with the lack thereof, but rather, what seems to be too much. First a bit of background on the equipment and procedure. I used a Rubbermaid 5 gallon cooler for a hot liquor tank. I also used a Rubbermaid cooler with a Phils phalse bottom and a Phils sparger installed in the lid of the cooler. Here is the grain bill: 10 pounds Belgian 2 row pale .5 pound English crystal .25 pound US Special Roast .125 pound DWC Biscuit .125 pound chocolate malt I mashed in the 11 lbs of grain with 170 deg water (2 deg high to compensate for heat loss to the mash tun) and nailed my mash temperature of 156 deg right on the money. It held rock solid at 156 deg for the entire mash. Mash pH was 5.2. After 45 minutes, I checked for conversion using iodine and found that it was indeed complete. During the mash, I acidified 5 gal. of water to pH 5.2 with lactic acid. I then heated it to 170 deg and transferred it to the hot liquor tank. I had trouble with some grain under the phalse bottom. The phalse bottom had floated up and some grain got trapped under it when I first mashed in. I took a few minutes to get the grain flushed out before I could begin the recirculation in earnest. Upon completion of the mash, I recirculated about a gallon of sweet wort. It cleared somewhat, but I'm not sure how clear it should actually get. It wasn't as clear as later, during the sparge. I proceeded to runoff into the kettle and with about an inch of sweet wort left on top of the grain bed, I proceeded to sparge. The sparge took about 1 hour. I sparged until I had 7 gallons of wort in the kettle. I did a 90 minute boil, adding 1 oz of Target hops 15 minutes into the boil and 1 oz of East Kent Goldings 80 minutes into the boil. I also added 1 tsp of rehydrated Irish Moss 15 minutes before the end of the boil. I force cooled to 60 degrees and my calibrated kettle showed 5.5 gal of wort. I measured the specific gravity with a triple scale hydrometer and a certified saccharometer. The hydrometer showed 1.065 and the saccharometer showed 16 deg Brix (adjusted for 68 deg calibration temp). These numbers fairly well agree with each other. This seems like a lot of extract to me, considering I was shooting for 75% efficiency with a OG of about 1.052 or so. My calculations run this way: 10 lbs Belgian pale X 35 pt*lbs/gal = 350 GU .5 lbs English crystal X 24 pt*lbs/gal = 12 GU .25 lbs US Special roast X 24 pt*lbs/gal = 6 GU .125 lbs DWC Biscuit X 37 pt*lbs/gal = 4.6 GU .125 lbs chocolate X 25 pt*lbs/gal = 3.1 GU Total = 375.7 or 376 GU. I understand this may not be exact, depending on the maximum extraction rates used. This varies somewhat, depending on the source of the numbers for maximum extraction. At any rate, 376 GU is about the maximum extract that could be achieved. 376 GU / 5.5 gal = 68, or a maximum gravity of around 1.068. As I mentioned above, I measured 1.065, using two different instruments. Therefore, 1.065/1.068 = >95% efficiency. This would vary somewhat again, depending on the numbers used above and the accuracy of measuring the final volume. It certainly seems that my efficiency is well over 90%, no matter how you figure it. There's the crux of this post. Is this possible? I've always read and understood that most brewhouse efficiency figures range 75% to 85%. There must be a flaw in my calculations somewhere, either in the way I understand gravity units and the calculation of specific gravity using GU's or in the numbers I'm using for maximum extraction rates. I'm reasonably certain my measurements of volume and specific gravity of the bitter wort are correct. That leaves my calculations subject to question. I oxygenated the wort with 60 seconds of pure oxygen and pitched .4 gal of Wyeast 1084 Irish Ale, stepped up 3 times. I had active fermentation within 12 hours and it's currently chugging away. Can anyone help? I'm not concerned with the good extraction I got; I'm just trying to understand the numbers and the process a little better. Private email is OK. I'd sure like to understand what's happening. Sorry for the long post. Thanks. Jim Schnaidt tuba at gwtc.net Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 17:00:29 -0600 From: "Thomas, Andrew R" <thomaar at texaco.com> Subject: corny serilizing ************************************************ Richard Byrnes says: A thought comes to mind, has anyone ever pasteurized a cornie keg before? It would seem simple enough to drop it in a half barrel, fill the half barrel with water, take the cornie out, bring th water up to pasteurizing temps (155?) and drop the cornie back in for a half hour or so. ************** Andy's reply: I have seen the rubber bottom come off of a corny before when a friend tried putting boiling water inside one to sterilize. The keg was not immersed in water the way he tried it. Dont know what the temperature limitations are for the glue holding those on, but they are not indestructible. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 17:24:03 -0500 From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at ccisd.k12.mi.us> Subject: Pasteurising cornie kegs Rich Byrnes asked about pasteurising cornie kegs. I had a cornie that kept infecting the beer I put into it. I had run beer line cleaner through it and then sanitized all parts with an iodophor solution to no avail. I finally boiled five gallons of water and ran it out into the cornie. I put all the cornie parts (disassembled), including the picnic faucet, into the cornie before filling. I then let everything sit, covered, until cool. When I was ready to use the keg, I treated it with iodophor again, and so far, knock on wood, no infection. It's been about 5 or 6 weeks since I filled the keg. Randy Ricchi Fed. Witness Protection Program Relocatee Hancock, Michigan .....Doh! Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 18:41:25 -0500 From: Mark Weaver <HeadBrewer at eci.com> Subject: RE: Newbie Questions, Vol 2 Rich, >1. I used a cash Christmas gift to make a wort cooler, and the thing >works great, 212 to 75F in 16 minutes vice a few hours. Doesn't the >copper react with the wort though? I know that copper easily gives >off ions and readily reacts with so many other compounds and >substances, how does it react here? Yes copper does react with Wort, however, according to the FDA, it isn't harmful. What little does go into the beer isn't enough to harm you. However, if the copper is oxidized, it is highly recommended that you wash it with some vinegar first. This will remove the oxidation (green/grey stuff). The copper will become somewhat shinny, but not gleaming. I use an immersion chiller, a very long tube of copper that is bent into the shape of a coil, it is placed in the hot wort 15 minutes before EOB (End Of Boil). I clean it once a month to prevent oxidation. According to some brewers, copper is supposed to be beneficial to the yeast in some way or another, however, I take that with a grain of salt... >2. I switched early to the 5 litre kegging system vice bottles, and >absolutely love it. The one problem I had was having enough to fill >4 kegs and a couple bottles. When I bought my 8 gal pot to do full >boils, I started making bigger batches (5 1/2 - 6 gal instead of 5 >gal) and voila! the problem was solved. At the same time, upon >recommendation of another homebrewer whom I don't remember, started >straining my wort as I transfered it to the primary, removing most of >the hop residue. I cracked the first keg using these two changes the >other night and was very disappointed. I had brewed 'sea bass ale' >from a recipe I have used frequently with nary a problem, but this >batch turned out kinda, well, watery. Not as much body as it should >have. Opinions? Maybe you forgot to add something? maybe you were a pound short on extract?? I had this problem too when I was using extract oh so long ago. Have you increased the amount of extract and hops you use to reflect the fact that you are adding extra water? That may be the problem... (er, please don't take that last bit the wrong way....) I have some extra 5 liter kegs that are sitting around. They are all clean, if you pay shipping you can have them for free.. (I also have the fancy version of the tap, but that I can't give away for free ;-) >3. One of the other lists I'm on is in a raging debate about fluid to >use in air locks. One side says always use something like vodka and >the other side says water. Opinions? Vodka. Suckback (when the wort cools further in your fermenter and sucks the fluid out of the airlock and into the fermenter) is not a good thing if you are using water, or even worse, water with iodine added! Use Vodka or grain alcohol. The cheap stuff works well, No Stoli Cristal needed! ;-) What other list are you on? >4. My brews typically ferment vigorously enough during the first few >days to bubble up right through the airlock and make a mess. One >brewer suggested I stop using the airlock at first and use a blowoff >tube to another container. Sorta makes sense. Sounds like a good idea. Although, to prevent this problem, I purchased some 7.5 gallon glass carboys. They have enough headspace so as not to have that problem. Carboys are easier to clean, but also easier to break. The 7.5 gallon ones are hard to come by too. >He additionally said >that when rapid fermentation has ceased and I'm no longer getting >effluent from the blow off tube, I have reached "high krausen" and >should immediately rack of to a secondary for better flavor. Ah yes. Well, a lot of your hop resins/oils/compounds and some flavour profiles are taken up into the Krausen. When the Krausen falls back down into the beer, it takes those flavours and hop compounds etc. back into the beer with it... If you do follow his directions, you will have to alter your hopping profile so that you get the same amount of IBUs in your beer... Personally I wouldn't bother. There isn't much in the way of an advantage to racking off during high Krausen. >Up to now, I wait until the airlock stops bubbling, usually a week -ten >days, then rack to secondary for about another week, prime and keg, >age for at least a month and enjoy. I'm so confuzzled! Sounds like a good process to me! Do you rack to a glass carboy or to another plastic fermenter? (if you haven't guessed, I dont like plastic ferms. To easy to scratch them and get an infection) I have a brewing website if you would like to check it out, with recipes and some tips on brewing, calculating IBUs... We are also looking for more recipes <hint hint> Here's the address: http://markweaver.com2tom.com/home.html Hope that helps a little! Sante! Mark - -- Mark Weaver - Brewer on the Loose HeadBrewer at eci.com 75'02 / 72tii "No, I don't brew heads....." Resume http://markweaver.com2tom.com Web Site: http://markweaver.com2tom.com/home.html Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 18:35:27 -0500 (EST) From: Alan McKay <amckay at magma.ca> Subject: December 97 Brewing Techniques Dear BT Editor, I just now received my Dec 1997 BT, and I have to say that I'm very displeased to see that it is no longer shipped in an envelope. Given the choice between this, and paying an extra 50 cents per issue, I'll gladly pay the 50 cents. Afterall, this isn't Time magazine that gets thrown out in 2 weeks (or less). As it is, my issue arrived completely dog-eared in one corner. The last 30 pages are so are bent right down about 3 inches, and are completely ratty. Homebrewers hold on to these things for years to come. Of course, I'm sure I won't be the only one you'll hear from on this. cheers, -Alan McKay Ottawa, ON K2C 2C7 cc: homebrew at hbd.org - -- "Brewers make wort. Yeast Makes Beer." - Dave Miller's Homebrewing Guide http://www.magma.ca/~amckay/ http://www.magma.ca/~bodnsatz/brew/tips/ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 17:14:40 -0700 From: Troy Hager <thager at bsd.k12.ca.us> Subject: infusion vs. step mashing Hello brewers! Olin J. Schultz asked about mashing the same recipe using infusion vs. step methods and I would like to relay my experiences. I have used the single infusion method quite a few times in the past couple years and have produced some tasty beers with it, but through reading the HBD and the latest Fix book, I decided to use some steps for a couple batches of my IPA. I mash in a 7 gal Gott so have to use infusions for all rests. I (foolishly) decided to try the 40-60-70C program for the first brew and figured the temps. and water to grain ratios per Palmer's formulas in his article in BT about cooler mash/lauter tuns. I started with a thick mash at about .75 quart water to 1 lb grain with a 1/2 hr. at 40C. Then moved up to 60C with boiling water. It was hard to get the temp. up but finally got close (about 59) and left for another 30 mins. For the final rest we couldn't get it up to 70C and were well over what I had figured volume-wise with the formulas, so stopped at about 68C or so at over 2:1 ratio. So I found that raising the temp at the higher end is very difficult and really a pain in the butt with this system. After the boil I was at an OG of 1.055. This batch I split the batch into two fermentors and used Brewtec Amer. Ale II and Cal. Brewpub yeasts I started from slants. Both fermentations started fairly quickly and both dropped like a rock to 1.010! I had been shooting for about 1.015 or so for less alcohol and more body so was a bit disappointed. The beers both tasted good although a little alcoholic and thin for my preference. My second batch used the same recipe. I decided that the three-rest program was not for my system so decided to go to two rests at 60 & 70C. I also wanted to try to get the FG up so cut down the 60C rest to 15 minutes and the 70C for one hour. This beer came out a bit heavier with an OG of 1.064. This time I used one yeast -Brewtec Amer. Ale II harvested from previous batch. Fermentation started within a few hours and again dropped like a rock to 1.011 in only two days!!! Again alcoholic and thin! Conclusions: The rests were very hard and stressful to do with infusions. It seems that when the temp. gets up around 60-70C it takes a lot of boiling water to raise it to the next step and the result is a soupy mash and impercise temp. control. It also seems like even a short rest at 60C produces so many fermentable sugars that the FG drops way too low. Am I the only one having this problem? I know that most of you using RIMS or the MASHMIXER don't have temp control problems, but what about using rests in the 60C range that gets beta-amylase enzymes creating too many fermentables and the beer dropping too low??? So, needless to say, it is back to the old reliable single-infusion method for me; less work, better beer... what more do I need to say? Any comments would be appreciated. I can see why there has been some talk lately in the HBD about predicting FG numbers. So far, I haven't come up with the answers. Troy A. Hager Franklin Elementary School 2385 Trousdale Drive. Burlingame, CA 94010 259-3850 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 20:54:48 -0500 From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at oeonline.com> Subject: Pasteurizing a cornie Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... Rich Byrnes asks about pasteurizing the BEER WITHIN a cornie keg... Rich: sounds reasonable to me. Don't know how to assure the beer has reached and maintained pasteurization temperatures though. I'd imagine that trials could be performed with kegs of water to determine at roughly what point the kegged beverage reaches the desired temperature (noting that starting temp will have a affect on the time required). I feel an experiment coming on... See ya! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at oeonline.com Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org AOL FDN Beer & Brewing Maven BrewBeerd at aol.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 21:56:09 -0500 From: Mark Weaver <HeadBrewer at eci.com> Subject: RECIPES NEEDED Hello all, I am in the process of developing a new website for homebrew recipes. If any of you would care to contribute any of your wonderful recipes we will gladly post them (free of charge!) and give the credit to you (we'll even make a link to your e-mail if you so desire). Now, I don't intend to ever be the same size as those wonderful people at The Cat's Meow, but I am looking to provide a site with a decent amount of recipes, besides, I have the server space! If you would like to contribute, please send the recipe via e-mail to: HeadBrewer at eci.com Or visit the site at: http://markweaver.com2tom.com/home.html Cheers! MDW. - -- Mark Weaver - Brewer on the Loose HeadBrewer at eci.com 75'02 / 72tii "No, I don't brew heads....." Web Site: http://markweaver.com2tom.com/home.html Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 20:56:02 -0500 From: Mark Pfortmiller <MPFORTMILLER at PRINTPACK.COM> Subject: I brewed an extract wheat beer last week. I had a nice kruesen in 8 hours time, i check it for 3 straight days and everything seemed alright. Well the foam came up and out of my air lock on either the 4 or 5 day and of coarse i didn't check it those days. When i racked it it tasted fine but I'm worried about an infection. I've been brewing for 2 years and this is the first time this has happen to me. I use a 6 1/2 ga carboy for the primary and cornie kegs for the secondary. I've made this same beer before with no problem. gggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr i hate to feed the sewer rats my beer. Any chance it will turn out OK??? Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 21:51:16 -0600 From: "David Johnson" <dmjalj at inwave.com> Subject: Yeast Behavior Brewers, I just wanted to submit a few observations I had on yeast behavior. The first is an observation on BrewTek'sScottish ale yeast. First of all after using it on only two batches, I am not an expert on it. It does have a wonderful flavor profile. I have made a strong scotch ale (OG 1.090) and an export (OG 1.056) and was impressed by how similar they tasted in spite of having a very different malt profile. Another thing I noticed was that it was low attenuating on both recipes. I also noticed that it takes forever to bottle-condition even with the lower gravity beer. I also recently made an alt bier with BrewTek Kolsch yeast. After a few days in the bottle I saw an oily film on the top of all the bottles. Concerned that I might have an infection I opened a bottle and tasted it. It was fine. Good Even. I also noticed the beer was not carbonated and there was no yeast sediment. So I shook up one of the bottles to disperse the film which vanished and did not return. A few days later, I noticed that the film had dissappeared in all the other bottles. There is now a layer of yeast on the bottom. The beer is fine so far. My guess is, this was yeast activity during conditioning. My question is: is this behavior related to this strain of yeast or am I not very observant since I haven't noticed this with any other yeasts (including other ales). Dave (No matter where I go or how far I travel from Jeff Renner, there I am.) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 21:55:24 -0700 From: William Graham <bill.graham at bigfoot.com> Subject: Water Chemistry & 3/4 ton full floating axle Help!!! This newbie all-grain type is getting wrapped around the axle about water chemistry. My first all-grain batch I completely ignored chemistry and pH. The second batch, I decided to try to measure pH with my super-whamodyne , temperature-corrected digital pH meter (pHep 3). The first sparge samples had a pH of, gasp, 4.70!!! Ack! I didn't measure any more. BTW, I tested the meter on solutions of 4.0 and 7.0 and it passed with flying colors. Today I decided to measure the pH of the tap water here in beautiful Golden, CO. pH of 8.4. I then boiled it, cooled it, and the pH is now 8.9!!! Ack! I though the pH was supposed to go DOWN cuz the carbonates precipitate out! Here's the salient features of the water chemistry from the local water department: Cl-free 1.35 Cl-Total 1.45 pAlkalinity 1.0 pH 8.98 tAlkalinity 60.0 tHardness 132.0 Sulfate 27.5 all units in mg/L I'm sure this means that the water is pretty soft, however, when reading Miller's "Handbook of Home Brewing" and Noonan's "New Brewing Lager Beer", I just get confused (some engineer, huh?) about temporary hardness, permanent alkalinity, hardness by CaCO3, etc. Could someone please give my some kind of overall, big picture analysis of my water and maybe how I should treat it for both light and dark beers? Kneeling humbly in front of the collective, Bill - 4 blocks from the Coors megabrewery Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 23:50:03 -0800 From: Clifton Moore <cmoore at gi.alaska.edu> Subject: RE yeast question David wrote: I obtained a quart of yeast slurry from a local lager brewery. I was given a quart of slurry the brewer said that it had 85% yeast and that was 90% viable as he had checked it that morning. He also made a comment about the maximum pitching rate and said when he does a maximum fermentation he uses 32 gm. of dry yeast in 200 ml. wort. Dave: It looks to me like you may have missed something by a few orders of magnitude. If you intend to pitch a full quart of slurry into a five gallon batch I would hold off till you get some authoritative reply from your post, or clarification from the source. I just finished calculating the yeast population I captured from a lager primary. I washed it several times and lost cells at every step, but I still came away with only 100 ml. of slurry. How is it that you will be pitching several times the yeast that my batch yielded? Anybody care to offer up any numbers on this pitching rate question? Clif Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 00:54:20 -0800 From: Scott Murman <smurman at best.com> Subject: Re: MIXMASHER vs RIMS On Fri, 9 Jan 98 16:55:16 CST John Wilkinson wrote: > Scott Murman challenged Jack Schmidling's assertion that an insulated cooler > mash tun limited the complexity of a step mash program saying that adding > heated water would handle that problem. > In my experience mashing with a10 gallon insulated cooler mash tun, the number > of steps is definitely limited. It gets difficult to raise the mash temp even > with boiling water without running out of room. I like the cooler mash tun > but I don't do more than two steps. Even with one step I cannot always > bring the mash temp to 170 for mash out. I don't find that much of an > impediment, however, but limited number of steps might be a problem with less > modified malts. I can only say that it is possible. It's not only possible, but with a typical batch I've never even come close to overflowing my 10 gal. Gott cooler. From reading the HBD, I do find that most people use what I would consider a very thin mash. I shoot for 1 qt/lb during my sacc. rests. I've read others using up to 3.0 qt/lb, which I can't really undertand. 1 lb. of grain will approximately occupy 1 qt. of volume. So 10 lb. of grain will be 10 qts, or 2-1/2 gallons. Add in 2-1/2 gal. of water, and you still will have 5 gal. of volume left over. Even a 1.5 qt/lb mash ratio would leave 3.75 gal. of empty volume. If you are having trouble step mashing with this much extra space, I think you must be mashing in at far too thin of a mash ratio. SM Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 08:44:11 -0500 From: haafbrau1 at juno.com Subject: re:overcarbed cornie If you have a spare cornie, keg to keg sounds like the least messy& least wasteful way to go. Paul Haaf haafbrau1 at juno.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 08:48:45 -6 From: "Dave Draper" <ddraper at utdallas.edu> Subject: HSA during mashing/lautering Dear Friends, In #2609, Brian Dixon wrote about hot-side aeration: > I have heard of at least one other case where HSA problems were traced > to non-delicate handling of hot mash, e.g. 'plopping' it into a lauter > tun. But others have had no problems. Could be that the people who > did, were also pushing the limits on the hot aeration (or aeration at > an improper time) in other ways too. I'm one of those who had definite signs of oxidation when the mash was dumped into a lauter tun. In my case, I was absolutely stringent about gently handling the wort while still hot, so I'm confident there were no other opportunities for HSA to occur. After beginning to take much greater care in transferring the mash to the lauter tun, things improved noticeably; and switching to a system in which mashing and lautering were done in a single vessel eliminated the oxidative symptoms entirely. Any oxidation problems I still have are unnoticeable so far because their gestation period is longer than the time it takes me to drink the batch. Just a datapoint. Cheers, Dave in Dallas - --- ***************************************************************************** Dave Draper, Dept Geosciences, U. Texas at Dallas, Richardson TX 75083 ddraper at utdallas.edu (commercial email unwelcome) WWW: hbd.org/~ddraper Beer page: http://hbd.org/~ddraper/beer.html That's all very well in practice; but will it work in *theory*? ---Ken Willing Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:28:14 -0500 From: Dean_Goulding at tufts-health.com Subject: Beer and Spam and MCAB >>"Fight Spam - see http://www.cauce.org/ >I find the best way to fight spam is to EAT it. Those who are interested in beer and Spam might want to point their browsers to the home of the Mighty Boston Wort Processors and note the past 4 years of "Beer and Spam" tastings! http://www.wort.org/events.html This page also contains pertinent information for the 1998 Boston Homebrew Competition where winners in 18 subcategories will qualify to enter in the MCAB national championship round. Return to table of contents
Date: 14 Jan 1998 07:33:57 -0800 From: Dion Hollenbeck <hollen at vigra.com> Subject: RIMS temperature gradient The following message is a courtesy copy of an article that has been posted to rec.crafts.brewing as well. The following was passed on to me by Kyle Druey, but I have not personally read what he has attributed to Jack S. However, no matter who said it, it is worth commenting on: Kyle> Dion, didn't you do some measurements on the temp gradient in a RIMS Kyle> mash? Jack S seems to think there is: Jack> Frankly, I do not see how pumping liquid through a fixed grain Jack> bed can even come close to the near zero temperature gradient of Jack> a continuous mix. There has got to be a measureable difference Jack> between the liquid at the bottom and that coming out of the Jack> heater. If not, there would be no need for a heater. When my Jack> mixer is running I can NOT measure any difference between the Jack> wort near the top and that on the bottom. Kyle> Do you have any data you could post? Well, I never did any "formal" or "controlled" temperature measurements of this. However, I actually did measure it one day as I had my BruProbe out to measure the lag time between the heater chamber output reaching setpoint and the the mash reaching settpoint. Jack is completely correct that there is a temp gradient between the return manifold and the wort coming out of the bottom of the mash tun, but only during boosts. Once the setpoint is reached by the heater, the temp in the mash tun gradually rises until after about 10 minutes, it stabilizes at the setpoint as well. I probed all over and up and down and there was only about a .5F difference and this was most notable right near the walls of the mash tun. dion - -- Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164 Email: hollen at vigra.com http://www.vigra.com/~hollen Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs San Diego, California Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:50:56 -0500 From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Weyermann,runoff,Temp differential, Brewsters: John Wilkinson asks if Weyermann Pilsner malt needs a protein rest. I would say yes, even though Braam Greyling of South Africa purchased a lar= ge quantity and was told this malt was capable of being used in an infusion mash, as I recall from a private communication. From the German perspective, I interpret this to mean a decoction is not necessary. I would however not use the it in a single step infusion unless the grain w= as very soft, like a Pale Ale, when you bite it. - ------------------------------------------------- John Wilkinson and Jeff Renner concur on runoff rates, believing that 5 gal/hr is too slow for their 10 gallon systems. Suppose you were at Bud,= you'd take a long time at 5 gal/hr! Since many systems are 5 gallons , I= suspect that is the source of confusion. I think the operative number he= re is take an hour to sparge regardless of the size of the HB mash. The bi= g guys do take a few hours sometimes. - ------------------------------------------------- Kyle Drury correctly asserts that there must be a temperature differentia= l from top to bottom if he has to use a heater in his RIMS system, but can'= t measure the difference. Why not approximate it with a power calculation? = The amount of power into the heater is the amount lost at equilibrium. I= f you assume the specific heat of water is 1 and the specific heat of malt = is 0.4 and other losses ( pump, tubing, etc.) are small, you can calculate t= he temperature differential, given your grain bill and mash water content. - ------------------------------------------------- = Keep on brewin' Dave Burley Kinnelon, NJ 07405 103164.3202 at compuserve.com Dave_Burley at compuserve.com = Voice e-mail OK = Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:15:23 -0500 From: Margie and Dave Ludwig <dludwig at eagle1.eaglenet.com> Subject: Re: Over-carbonated Cornie >Over the Christmas holidays in preparation for a party, I accidentally >over-carbonated a naturally carbonated Cornie of lager > ( doing several other beers in a row, after a 5u filtration, >I hit it with 50psi and shook it. OOOPS) I should have >measured it first with my keg pressure gauge, but didn't. At a >keg pressure of 22 psig, can you say foam? You could walk >on this stuff. Can you say Marx Brothers if you try to release the >pressure from the "IN" side, since it foams up and out the >connection? > >Any ideas on how to deal with this? Dave, You didn't mention it but I assume you don't have a pressure relief valve in the lid. I force carbonate my kegs at ~28 psi in the fridge for 3 days or so then bleed off the pressure with the pressure relief valve to about 3 psi for dispensing. I would let the keg sit awhile (no doubt it's been sitting awhile by the time this gets posted), then bleed off pressure from the IN fitting by depressing the poppet. Because the IN tube is usually an inch or so long, if your beer level is high, you'll probably get something out of the fitting. You could tilt the keg to get more distance between the beer and the IN tube. That might be the way to go. Hope this helps. Dave Ludwig Southern MD Brew Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:22:17 -0600 (CST) From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> Subject: dough in Both Jack and Dion have recently posted on their methods for doughing in (the initial mixing of the brewing liquor (water) and grist (crushed grains)). They both do it by circulating the liquor (two different ways) and then slowly adding the grist. Dion even compares the way his system works with the way big commercial brewers dough in. Although I've never seen one in operation, my understanding is that in the US, the larger brewers use a system where the malt is dropped into the mash tun and the stream of malt is run through a spray of water. On the other hand, most of the commercial brewers in the UK use what's called a Steel's Masher. This is a cylindrical device that is (for brewers the size of say, Samuel Smith's) about 24" in diameter and contains a series of mixing paddles/blades and an auger-like device. The input-end of this device connects to the grist case (which holds the grist and connects to the bottom of the mill) and to a water supply. The output end swings over the doors of the mash/laeuter tun. The paddles/blades/auger are motorized. It's operation is quite obvious... malt and water go in, are mixed by the paddles and are pushed via the auger into the tun. The key in both these systems is to prevent clumps of malt from forming in which there are dry pockets of malt (this is called "balling"). [Our friends from Oz should have some fun with that, eh?]. I've read in several cookbooks that when you mix liquid and dry ingredients, you should add the liquid to the dry and first work the dry ingredients into a paste (working out all the lumps) and then add the balance of the liquid ingredients. I know from personal experience, it's a lot easier to get the lumps out of pudding (US, not UK meaning) mix when you're not chasing a little floating clump around the saucepan, trying to pin it against the wall. So, what does this all mean to the homebrewer? Well, the gadgeteer who has not chosen to go the RIMS route will immediately start building a Steel's Masher (see Malting and Brewing Science, The Biotechnology of Malting and Brewing, A Textbook of Brewing and Practical Brewing for pictures... I know at least two have diagrams). For the non-gadgeteers, if you are making a rather stiff (thick) mash (say, 1.5 quarts per pound or less), then it probably really doesn't make a difference whether you add liquid to dry or vice versa. On the other hand, if you are making a rather thin mash, I suggest holding back a third or so of the water and and adding it in only after the mash is well mixed. I think this will reduce the likelyhood of balled starch. Oh... there are photos of the *outsides* of a few Steel's Mashers on my website. Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com My new website (still under construction, but up-and-running): http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:21:10 -0800 From: michael rose <mrose at ucr.campus.mci.net> Subject: roasted malt help I've been trying to brew a robust porter but I can't get the flavor profile I want. Does anybody have any tricks to get the roasted flavor form roasted malt without the off flavors(astringency?) Should I mash it or should I steep it? I was thinking of steeping at low temp(120f) for a short time period (10 min). Would this method accomplish anything? On this same topic; I have several books on all the aspects of brewing but I have not been able to find a book on the different types and uses of malts. Does anybody have any suggustions? Any robust porter advice will be appreciated. - -- Michael Rose Riverside, CA mrose at ucr.campus.mci.net Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:24:50 -0600 From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) Subject: RE: Trademarks, HSA >Contrary to popular opinion an >aquarium aerator does not oxygenate the aquarium by absorbtion >from all those cute little bubbles. Their surface area is >insignificant compared to the top of the water. What the bubbles >or pump do/does is to keep the surface water moving so there is >always new surface for oxygen to be absorbed from the air. This may explain why the results have been satisfactory with my stoneless areation stone. I just stick the racking cane with the little plastic end piece into the wort and areate. The foam head is about 2 inches thick, and I let 'er go for about four hours steady. Ron Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:36:22 -0800 From: "Rich, Charles" <CRich at saros.com> Subject: re: mix sham -- ANAGRAM(R) Some other anagrams of MIXMASHER mixes harm he rams mix re: mix sham Actually pretty darned busy, Cheers, Charles Rich (Seattle, USA) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 13:10:40 -0700 From: "Lee, Ken" <KLee at resdata.com> Subject: Infusion Mash in GOTT 10 Gallon I would like to get some feedback on how those of you that use a single temperature infusion mash actually perform the operation. I get okay results, but am ready to try and improve my process. I have a 10 gallon GOTT cooler with a phils phalse bottom and a plastic ball lock to control the out flow. I boil in a converted 15.5 gallon key on a camp chef propane stove, the big 100,000+ btu model. I also use a wort chiller and get my wort to pitching temp in about 20 minutes. For the mashing process I generally combine my grains. An example would be 7 lbs of pale two row (whatever is cheapest at the homebrew store), and one pound of either Crystal or another lite colored malt. With the eight pounds of grain I will add 1.3 * 8 quarts of water at 170 F. I have PH strips from Precision labs, but never got instructions on how to use them do I don't. I just add one tablespoon of lactic acid to the mash water as it is heating up. I combine the water and grains and stir them up in the cooler. I generally get a temp between 150 and 154. Seems pretty close to me anyways. I let the cooler sit in the garage for about three hours... I then open the balllock and let the cloudy stuff flow into the container I boiled the water in (A four gallon SS pot). I never seem to be able to tell when it clears enough. I just let it flow until I don't see any more chunks of grain coming through. I then ladle this back into the cooler and start draining into my keg/boiler. When it drains completely, I turn off the flow, get about 8 gallons of water to 170 degrees, then pour it into the cooler. I don't have a sparge arm so I have been using this process. I never pour in boiling water in an attempt at mashout. For some reason I thought you get to many of the phenols (sp?) when you do. I don't add any chemicals to this water. I then drain into the pot until no grains come through, pour this back in, and drain until my keg fills up to the 6 1/2 gallon mark. I then stop sparging and boil the kegs contents for an hour or so, adding hops at diferent intervals in the boil. I also add about two teaspoons of Irish moss when I fire up the burner for the boil. I have never seen a step by step process for infusion mashing in a cooler that explains precisely what chemicals to add and why. Am I doing this right, and what can I do to make this process better and how do you use PH strips. I enjoy the process and the end result, but think I can get a 'Better Beer' with a few pointers. Thanks, Ken Lee klee at resdata.com Return to table of contents
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