HOMEBREW Digest #2618 Sat 24 January 1998

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  calculating mash volume (Andrew Stavrolakis)
  Recipe (something we haven't seen for a while) (Mark T A Nesdoly)
  Altbier all-grain (Al Korzonas)
  Dunkelweizen/HB Munich Malt/Wheat Decocting ("Eric Schoville")
  Basic Brew Water Ammendments (Chris Cooper)
  Toronto and area beer & events? (Dan Morley)
  Hoegaarden Wit (was: Oh, no! Not the Blue Moon thread again.) (Matthew Arnold)
  Whole versus pellets - utilization (Al Korzonas)
  Covering the boil ("John Robinson")
  Typos/Chillers/Bad Brewpubs (EFOUCH)
  chest type freezer for storing finished beer ("J.W. Schnaidt")
  ruined beer? (John Wilkinson)
  optimal grain bed depth and runoff rate (Al Korzonas)
  Re: Oven Mashing/Lower Extraction? (Mark Riley)
  cleaning copper manifold ("Bryan L. Gros")
  oxygenating starters (Andy Walsh)
  About the bulk raspberries: more info (Vicky)
  3 rad/s?  /  Carbonating Bavarian Weissbier (Kyle Druey)
  War of the Worts 98 Results (folsom)
  Counter flow wort chiller, pumping, RIMS questions (AllDey)
  Powdery mildew ("P. Edwards")

Be sure to enter the... The Best of Brooklyn Homebrew Competition Brooklyn Brewery, Brooklyn, NY Entries due by 1/31/98, competition 2/7/98 Contact Bob Weyersberg at triage at wfmu.org for more info. NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESS: hbd.org Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org (Articles are published in the order they are received.) If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org. **SUBSCRIBE AND UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS MUST BE SENT FROM THE E-MAIL **ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!! IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, the autoresponder and the SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE commands will fail! For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to brewery at realbeer.com Homebrew Digest Information on the Web: http://hbd.org Requests for back issues will be ignored. Back issues are available via: Anonymous ftp from... ftp://hbd.org/pub/hbd/digests ftp://ftp.stanford.edu/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer AFS users can find it under... /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:44:33 -0500 From: Andrew Stavrolakis <andrew_stavrolakis at harvard.edu> Subject: calculating mash volume Scott Murman writes: >1 lb. of grain will approximately occupy 1 qt. of volume. So 10 lb. of >grain will be 10 qts, or 2-1/2 gallons. Add in 2-1/2 gal. of water, >and you still will have 5 gal. of volume left over. Even a 1.5 qt/lb >mash ratio would leave 3.75 gal. of empty volume. I always used the figure that 1 lb grain =.08 qts of volume, for example 10 lbs of grain mashed in at 1.5 qts/lb would occupy a total volume 15.8 qts, or approx 4 gallons. This figure has never led me wrong, even when I mashed 5.5 lbs of grain in a 6 quart cooler, where there was, shall we say, a slim margin of error. Cheers, Andrew. ************************************************************ Andrew J. Stavrolakis Controller LASPAU: Academic and Professional Programs for the Americas 25 Mount Auburn Street Cambridge, MA 02138 phone:617-495-0543 fax: 617-495-8990 email:Andrew_Stavrolakis at harvard.edu http://www.laspau.harvard.edu Return to table of contents
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by mail.usask.ca From: Mark T A Nesdoly <mtn290 at mail.usask.ca> Subject: Recipe (something we haven't seen for a while) Hello, Last October I brewed something that I called a "Dunkelweizenbock"--basically a very strong, dark wheat beer. The basic recipe had been formulated using Ray Daniels' _Designing Great Beers_, and I got a little creative with a couple of the ingredients. I should also say that there is no commercial examples within about 400 miles of where I live; I guess I was "shooting from the hip" on this one. Anyway, the beer turned out great; both the wife and I loved it. The keg only lasted about 5 or 6 weeks. During the holidays, we were visiting the in-laws in Edmonton, and I managed to find a great beer store with dozens of imports. One of them was Schneider's Aventinus Wheat Doppelbock. A few days after we got back, we had a taste of Aventinus. I don't mean to toot my own horn, but it tasted _exactly_ like Aventinus. Even the wife said it tasted like "the one you did before". Mine was perhaps a little darker in colour, but otherwise they were the same. Here's the recipe: Dunkelweizenbock: All-grain, triple decoction mash (this was my 2nd-ever decoction), 19 litre yield (about 5 US gal) 2.40 kg Maris Otter 2-row pale malt 400 g DWC Caravienne Malt 20L 325 g DWC Chocolate Malt 163 g DWC Caramunich Malt 475 g (pre-cooked weight) home-made Caramel Wheat Malt (see end how to make) 475 g (pre-cooked weight) home-made Roasted Wheat Malt (see end how to make) 3.15 kg DWC Wheat Malt Mash/lauter tun: 48 qt Coleman Cooler fitted with a slotted copper manifold Mash Start: 22 litres tap water added to mash; hit acid rest at 98F, held for 20 min before next step; 3 ml 21% Phosphoric acid also added to mash at this point 1st decoction: 11 litres (thickest part of mash) pulled, brought to 158F, rested for 20 min, then heated to a boil and boiled for 10 min *remember to stir the decoction like mad!!! This was added back to the mash (I was shooting for 135F protein rest), and I hit 145F, so I added 2 litres of cold tap water and hit 135F, held for 20 min before next step 2nd decoction: 12 litres (thickest part of mash) pulled, brought to 158F, rested for 15 min, then heated to a boil and boiled for 5 min *again, stir like mad!!! This was added back to the mash, and I hit 154F; I also added 1 oz (two hop plugs) of Hal. Hersbrucker (aa = 3.2%) to the mash itself; it's a little trick I came up with when brewing wheat beers to help prevent a stuck runoff (there are _no_ rice hulls available anywhere around here, so they're out of the question); this temperature was maintained for 20 min before last step 3rd decoction: 6 litres (thinnest part of the mash) were drained from the mash/lauter tun before it stuck like glue; 7 litres tap water were added to this last decoction, and it was brought to a boil for 5 min; no need to stir this last decoction, since there are no grains in it This was added back to the mash, and I hit 167F (mashout); held 10 min before sparge began; it was sparged with 10 litres of 170F water, with 2 ml of 21% Phosphoric acid added to it; 25 litres of runoff were collected in 50 min The runoff was First Wort Hopped with 1.5 oz of Hal. Hersbrucker hop plugs (aa = 3.2%) [about 17 IBU] The wort was boiled for 90 min; 15 min before the end of the boil, 1/4 tsp of Irish Moss and 1 tsp yeast nutrient were added Wort was chilled with an immersion chiller and the trub and hops were separated using my "syphon tube" arrangement [see HBD #2514 for description] Wyeast 3068 (Weihenstephan Wheat) 750 ml starter was pitched at 67F OG 1.068 FG 1.015 Sun Oct. 5/97 - Day #1; ferment temperature maintained at 62F - 68F Tues Oct. 14/97 - Temperature bumped to 70F - 72F Sun Oct. 19/97 - Kegged Mon Oct. 20/97 - Force Carbonated (at 40F) at 12 psi (2.47 Vol of CO2) How I made the Caramel Wheat Malt: I stewed the wheat malt at 155F for 90 min (I didn't crush the malt beforehand, either), then I spread it on a cookie sheet and put it in the oven which had been set at 300F; I stirred it often until it was dry, but not burned How I made the Roasted Wheat Malt: I just spread the wheat malt on a cookie sheet, then baked it at 230F for 45 min, then 300F for another 45 min Let me know if you have any questions. - -- Mark, brewing in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:41:37 -0600 (CST) From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> Subject: Altbier all-grain Sorry for the personal response, but the direct email to Matt bounced. Matt had asked me about using Victory in place of Biscuit in an Altbier. Matt-- Briess Victory and DWC Biscuit are similar, but I recommend DWC Aromatic or Weyermann Melanoidinmalt for Altbiers, not Biscuit or Victory. Aromatic and Melanoidinmalt are high-kilned (super Munich!) whereas Biscuit and Victory are toasted pale malts. Big difference. If I did a decoction, I would not even add the Aromatic... I would make the grist 100% dark Munich. Since I usually do infusion mashes, I add either Aromatic or Melanoidinmalt for that extra maltiness. Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com My new website (still under construction, but up-and-running): http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ Return to table of contents
Date: 20 Jan 98 10:54:21 -0800 From: "Eric Schoville" <ESCHOVIL at us.oracle.com> Subject: Dunkelweizen/HB Munich Malt/Wheat Decocting Collective: I tried unsuccessfully to brew a Dunkelweizen on Sunday. I was extremely disappointed in the color. The grain bill was as follows: 50% Great Western Malted Wheat 50% Hugh Baird Munich Malt I did not include any chocolate malt, because previous posts to the hbd have said that it is not appropriate for this style. I was hoping that double decocting and a long boil would produce a dark color, but alas, it ended up pretty light. Can someone give me a definitive recipe for this style? Having used the Hugh Baird Munich Malt in the past (on an alt and a dunkelbock), I have continually been disappointed at the color of this malt. Any comments? Next time I think I am going to buy a bag of Weyermans Dark Munich, not some English imitation. Also, I noticed a tremendous amount of break material during the boil. I thought that decoction mashing is supposed to _lower_ the amount of break material. I boiled the decoction for a good twenty-five minutes. Was this perhaps due to the wheat malt? As always, all comments appreciated... Eric Schoville in Flower Mound, TX with 45 gallons of beer fermenting. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:08:37 -0500 From: Chris Cooper <ccooper at a2607cc.msr.hp.com> Subject: Basic Brew Water Ammendments Greetings all! Over the past several months (indeed years) an often visited subject has been that of amemding the brew water. As my own brewing experience has progressed over the past three years I would like to take a look at my brewing water and amendment practices. I don't want to re-start a thread based on in depth analysis but would instead like to come up with a list of general "rules of thumb" for extract and all-grain homebrewers for when to use the adjunct chemicals sold by most homebrew shops (ie. Burton Salts, Chalk, Gypsum, etc.). I would like to see the discussion kept to a level where the only testing equipment needed would be pH papers. If you have guide lines that you use for when-to-add, how-much-to-add, and why-you-add for common adjuncts please reply to this thread. If you would like reply to this via private E-mail I will include your suggestions in a summary post. If there is enough response I may be able to create a "Basic Brew Water Ammendment FAQ". Chris Cooper , Commerce Michigan --> Pine Haven Brewery <-- Chris_Cooper at hp.com --> aka. Deb's Kitchen <-- (about 20 miles ENE of Jeff Renner) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:32:08 -0700 From: Dan Morley <morleyd at cadvision.com> Subject: Toronto and area beer & events? Hiya all, I will be in Toronto (specifically Mississauga) from Jan 26 to Feb 6. I have checked out the list of brewpubs and micro's on the net, but I was wondering if anyone had any personal recommendations? Also, is anyone aware of any beer events happening on the Jan 31/Feb 1 weekend? Private e-mail is fine. Thanks Dan Morley President of the Marquis de Suds Homebrewers Calgary, Alberta, Canada Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:33:56 GMT From: mra at skyfry.com (Matthew Arnold) Subject: Hoegaarden Wit (was: Oh, no! Not the Blue Moon thread again.) >Another point...wits are supposed to be drunk fresh. They do not age or >travel well. 3-4 weeks is about all. After that the spices and esters >decrease. I think that if you were to taste side by side fresh draught >versions, the difference would be more than evident. My inlaws brought a couple of bottles of Hoegaarden Wit (I give specific instructions ;) ) with them the last time they came to visit. It tasted like a very dry German wheat beer. The predominate flavor was cloves also with the usual Belgian dryness. Should cloviness dominate that much? I liked the Wit that a local brewpub made a while back, but I have no idea how "authentic" it was. Is it possible to get Hoegaarden fresh in the US? For some reason or another, the local distributor (in Northern Wisconsin, Green Bay area--no, I'm not a Packers' fan) isn't carrying Celis anymore. Pity. Hopefully the situation will change, although I do have friends in Austin . . . Matt P.S. I brewed my first all-grain batch a week ago Sunday. If the hydrometer sampling I took at racking time is any indication, I've got a winner on my hands! It is an Ordinary Bitter, FWIW. Only problem, I set the sparge rate too low and it took 2.5 hours to sparge. Blech. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:57:00 -0600 (CST) From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> Subject: Whole versus pellets - utilization Charley writes: >So, an ounce of pellets is not equal to an ounce of cones due to moisture >content? I always thought we got higher utilization due to the busted up >lupulin glands on pellet hops. Can we get confirmation from a hop processor >on this? I'm no hop processor, but the %moisture is immaterial... the % alpha acid rating on the package accounts for this. They measure the %AA of the finished pellets, regardless of the %AA of the original whole hops. Now, if packaging is not oxygen-barrier (or if air has not been purged from the packages) whole hops will lose %AA faster than pellets, but with modern packaging, this shouldn't be a factor (although I'm sure there are still some store owners that continue to use plain old sandwich bags). Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com My new website (still under construction, but up-and-running): http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:39:31 +0000 From: "John Robinson" <robinson at novalistech.com> Subject: Covering the boil Hi all, I've got a question. What is the general consensus on a partially covered boil? I know that the compounds that form DMS come together as that in the boil and get driven off by the steam. My question is, if the boiler is partially covered and condensation forms on the lid (it always does) does that condensate contain high levels of DMS? High enough to cross the flavour threshold? I suspose I could always taste it. :) I probably will next time. Is anyone aware of any chemical analysis which indicates if there is DMS in the condensate and if so how much? - --- John Robinson "When I am working on a problem I never think about beauty. Software Developer I only think about how to solve the problem. But when I NovaLIS Technologies have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know robinson at novalis.ca it is wrong." - Buckminster Fuller (1895-1983) Return to table of contents
Date: 20 Jan 1998 12:59:04 -0500 From: EFOUCH at steelcase.com Subject: Typos/Chillers/Bad Brewpubs HBD- From: "David L. Thomson" <dlt at ici.net> Subject: Re: Newbe step mashing Hi, I am thinking of doning a hefe Weissen all grain batch next. David- I realize you misspelled "donning", but you'd better bring a raincoat. Regarding planispiral chillers, I "built" one last year and love it! First, I tried to use a tubing bender to make nice concentric spirals and wire them flat, but soon gave up on the approach. I couldn't get it to not kink. Finally, I just took a new 25 foot section of 3/8 tubing, which comes wound in a box (about 12 inches in diameter) and worked it into as tight a spiral in the center as possible (about 3 inches), and ended up with the ID of my pot. So, the water goes into the first spiral around the sides of the pot, down to the smallest spiral in the center, then spirals back out to the edge, out and into the sink. It cools 5 gallons from 200F to 90F in about 20 minutes with no stirring. WFM (Works For Me). About bad brewpubs: Some of my friends and I visited the Harper Brewing Company in East Lansing last Friday night. The first thing that struck me was that the mash and lauter tuns were in the front window. The fermenters were pretty much on the other side of the pub- at least 20 yards away. It made an interesting visual impact. The four of us got four different beers: An American Wheat, a Cream Ale, a porter, and a stout. When I tasted my American Wheat, my first reaction was to tell my homebrewing buddy to *not* get it. Upon tasting all the brews, they varied in flavor very little. The colors were appropriate for style, and the stout did have some roastiness to it, but the predominant flavor in all three beers was that of OXIDATION! They all had heavy wet cardboard flavors to them. Very little hop character, no malty flavors, and my "wheat" beer was totally bland. My suspicion (not knowing how brewpubs operate) is that they transfer from the mash tun to the fermenters hot, and chill in the fermenters. They are probably getting oxidation in the transfer lines given that they transfer so far, probably hot, and probably don't flush the transfer lines with CO2. Seems that would be a good source for the oxidation problems. If I could have found the brewmaster that night, I would have straightened him out, that's for sure! Anyone else been there? Mr. Booth? Anybody reading this affiliated? Need some recipe consultant work/brewery redesign? Eric Fouch- Things would different if *I* was in charge! Bent Dick YoctoBrewery Kentwood, MI efouch at steel Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:48:02 -0600 From: "J.W. Schnaidt" <tuba at gwtc.net> Subject: chest type freezer for storing finished beer I just recently acquired a chest type freezer that I am going to use for fermenting and lagering beer and possibly storing beer. A question occurred to me that I haven't ever seen addressed. I would like to store my finished and bottled beer in this freezer along with the beer that is fermenting or lagering. Let's say I have a beer finished and bottled and stored in this freezer and I have the temperature set at 50 degrees. Now let's say I introduce a carboy of newly brewed lager that I'm going to ferment at 50 degrees. Fine. Three weeks later, I'm going to gradually lower the temperature of this lagering beer to 34 degrees and leave it there for 4 weeks. I then bottle this beer. Now, I want to ferment an ale. I warm the temperature up to 64 degrees to ferment the ale. All the while, I've got bottled beer stored in this same freezer. You perhaps see what I'm getting at. The temperature of this freezer is going to be changing, sometimes by as much as 30 degrees or better. This will in turn, obviously, raise and lower the temperature of the finished, bottled beer that is also stored there. Will this affect the beer that is already bottled and carbonated? In other words, does it adversely affect the beer to raise and lower the temperature through a range of say 20-30 degrees like this any number of times? Note that the beer won't get over 65 degrees or so or less than 32 degrees. I was wondering what affect raising and lowering the temperature would have on beer that was already bottled, carbonated and just waiting to be consumed. Jim Schnaidt tuba at gwtc.net Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 98 12:48:01 CST From: jwilkins at wss.dsccc.com (John Wilkinson) Subject: ruined beer? Mark Pfortmiller wrote: >I brewed an extract wheat beer last week. I had a nice kruesen in 8 >hours time, i check it for 3 straight days and everything seemed alright. >Well the foam came up and out of my air lock on either the 4 or 5 day and >of coarse i didn't check it those days. When i racked it it tasted fine but >I'm worried about an infection. I've been brewing for 2 years and this is >the first time this has happen to me. I use a 6 1/2 ga carboy for the >primary and cornie kegs for the secondary. I've made this same beer >before with no problem. gggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr i hate to feed the sewer >rats my beer. Any chance it will turn out OK??? I have this happen several times without a problem. I recently made a beer where everything went wrong. After the boil I could not get the wort to flow out of the spigot in the kettle. I finally cleaned and sanitized my immersion chiller and chilled the hot wort. This took a couple of hours. I then siphoned to my fermenter but the siphon clogged with 3-4 gallons left in the kettle (of 10 gal.). It was getting late so I sanitized a quart jar with iodophor and dipped the wort along with hops and break into a carboy that I think was sanitized a few weeks earlier. I had no yeast for this part so I left it with an airlock until I could get back with some yeast. That was two weeks later. Nothing was growing on the wort so I siphoned it to the dregs in a secondary from which I had just filled a keg. Apparently the secondary didn't have much yeast in it because two weeks later the SG was still 1.030. I then siphoned to the dregs in my primary after transferring that beer to kegs. Two weeks later the SG was 1.013 and the beer tasted fine. It is in a glass carboy now (I did not have a keg available) and looks good and tasted good. If this beer turns out I will call it my Cerveza Milagro (Miracle Beer). So I wouldn't worry about foaming through the airlock. I have done worse. John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkins at wss.dsccc.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:31:36 -0600 (CST) From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> Subject: optimal grain bed depth and runoff rate George writes: >But here's the rub... we believe that our lauter and sparge times will >increase significantly if we add 50% to the grain quantity or possibly >even 75% if we do a very HEAVY recipe. We worry that there may even be >the distinct liklihood that we'll get a stuck sparge with so much grain. >It might reach a depth of 18 to 20" in a particularly heavy mash. This >depth is higher than the screen is in diameter!! > >Does anyone on the HBD have any experience with this problem? What is a >good guideline for ratio of grain depth to tun diameter? We've noticed that >some commercial tuns have depts of 2 to 3 feet with diameters up to 8 feet >or more! If this is optimal, then we might be flirting disaster? and Dave writes: >John Wilkinson and Jeff Renner concur on runoff rates, believing that 5 >gal/hr is too slow for their 10 gallon systems. Suppose you were at Bud,= >you'd take a long time at 5 gal/hr! Since many systems are 5 gallons , I= >suspect that is the source of confusion. I think the operative number he= >re >is take an hour to sparge regardless of the size of the HB mash. The bi= >g >guys do take a few hours sometimes. These two issues are related. I've just searched all my local files and can't seem to find the formula for calculating the recommended runoff rate (but it is a function of the cross-sectional *area* of the grain bed). I believe that either Darryl Richman or maybe Jim Busch posted about this four or five years ago. If you would repost, or if someone has the formulas, please send them to me and I'll repost (rather than have 40 people repost them to the HBD!). Anyway, I'm best at explaining stuff without resorting to math, so I'll do my best here and I'm sure it will all come together for you when the formulas actually get posted. I've read in several places that the ideal grain bed depth is 18". This is supposed to be true for both commercial-sized and homebrew-sized mashes. In my files, I found that Jared had posted that Siebel's pilot brewing system's mashtun is set up for an 18" bed depth -- it was (still is? Rob? George?) 20" high and 10" by 5" wide. Theory aside, I also found in my notes that I got 32 points/lb/gal from a 6" grain bed depth. In a followup post (to Jared's) by Rob Lauriston, he notes that by running rakes, the industrial brewers could get away with a lot more than an 18" grain bed depth. Certainly, the mash/laeuter tuns in the UK that I saw (see my website for some photos) were far deeper than what would be needed for an 18" (or even 36" (about a meter)) grain bed depth. (Incidentally, Coors uses a mash filter in stead of a laeuter tun... I'd be curious to find out their yield!) In The Biotechnology of Malting and Brewing, Hough says that due to entrained air, infusion mashes are more bouyant than decoction mashes. He says it's why decoction mashes require rakes to be run during runoff. Perhaps that's why infusion mashes can support much deeper grain bed depths? I'm just speculating in this paragraph... comments? Anyway, back to George's question... it's not the ratio of area to bed depth that is the problem. Think of it this way: your 5-gallon batch is as if you took a 10" diameter section out of a commercial brewer's mash (as if cut out with a cookie cutter). Depth is the of primary importance. As for Dave's runoff rate... again, this should be constant for a given laeutering design and grain bed depth. Making 100 barrels or 1/6 of a barrel shouldn't make that big of a difference in runoff rate per square foot of grain bed cross-sectional area. Consider this: would it matter if you were making 100 bbl of beer and taking the runnings from one laeuter tun with a 24" grain bed depth or taking the runnings from 600 small lauter tuns, each with a 24" grain bed depth? Wouldn't the runnings from each of the 600 small laeuter tuns be 600 times slower than that from the one huge laeuter tun? The total "optimal" time to take the runnings would be constant, no? That said, I quickly mentioned laeuter tun design above... I feel that this is important because for designs in which the runnings are taken from a relatively small area (like the one I have designed... see my website) when compared to one in which the entire bottom of the tun is perforated and collects runnings, a slightly slower runoff is beneficial. Since there are larger areas of "stagnant" runnings (i.e. in the corners of the tun), you need more time for the sugars to diffuse into the sparge water. I'd like to point out that I was the first to point this out in a series of posts (HBD #853, #855, #999, #1003 and #1252). Then, later, in the 1995 Great Grains Special Issue of Zymurgy, I authored an article based upon an "experiment" that Steve Hamburg and I did, which showed that for a runoff rate of 7 gallons per hour, the various lauter tun designs are very, very similar in extract efficiency. So, what does this all mean? Well, it means that if you have a grain bed cross-sectional area of between 1.5 and 3 square feet and take runnings at a rate of 7 gallons per hour, I believe you can use virtually any laeuter tun design from an EasyMasher(tm) to a Zapap to a slotted pipe to a perforated bottom. Furthermore, I believe that some designs will allow for faster runoff rates with little loss in extract efficiency, but with the 7gal/hour rate, you are safe with any design. Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com My new website (still under construction, but up-and-running): http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:50:59 -0800 From: Mark Riley <mriley at netcom.com> Subject: Re: Oven Mashing/Lower Extraction? In HBD #2614, Lorne P. Franklin writes: >I've done three extended oven batches with success, but have encountered a >lower extraction rate than I normally have. Has anyone else noticed this? I haven't noticed this, but I do take the mash out of the oven every 15 minutes or so and stir it. I get about 85% efficiency most of the time. I always mash out by heating the kettle on the stove - so that helps the efficiency. Mark Riley The Beer Recipator - http://realbeer.com/brewery/recipator Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:21:16 -0800 From: "Bryan L. Gros" <gros at bigfoot.com> Subject: cleaning copper manifold I've got a circular copper manifold in the bottom of my boiling kettle (1/2 barrel keg). I've got slits cut in the manifold every inch or so on the bottom, and the thing rests nearly on the bottom of the kettle. It's been working great for several years, but the last six months or so, I've been having trouble getting the wort to drain. Espeically when I've got a lot of hops, it seems the manifold gets plugged up. Looking in the slits, it seems like there's a fair amount of hop/beer crud in the tubing. Is there anyway I can clean this out? Acid? Base? Any suggestions? Thanks. - Bryan Bryan Gros gros at bigfoot.com Oakland, CA Visit the Draught Board club website: http://www.dnai.com/~thor/dboard/index.htm Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 11:37:01 -0800 From: Andy Walsh <awalsh at crl.com.au> Subject: oxygenating starters The technique of aerating cropped yeast in water just prior to pitching into unaerated wort has been patented in the UK. I haven't seen the patent (I shall try and get hold of it), but have read of the method in several texts. I think the holders may be from Bass. (don't quote me!). Oxygenating a starter a short time before pitching improves yeast physiology or vitality. Yeast *vitality* (health of viable cells) is often ignored when discussing pitching rate, as opposed to *viability* (proportion of living cells). Vitality is a difficult one to measure (especially for homebrewers), but yeast high in vitality is generally high in membrane sterols and/or intracellular glycogen (but especially the former). Vital yeast can be pitched at a lower rate than non-vital yeast. The initial energy required by yeast to generate sterols and unsaturated fatty acids from oxygen is said not to derive from wort sugars but from glycogen stored by the yeast acquired from a previous fermentation. Typical levels are (data from various sources): glycogen (%) sterols (%) A)aerobically propagated 30 0.8 (at peak) B)fresh anaerobic (normal) 30 0.1 (at end) C)aged (B) 3 days at 15C 5 0.1 You can see that it doesn't take long for yeast to lose glycogen reserves. Storage at colder temperature drastically decreases the degradation rate. Aerobically propagated yeast can lead to flavour differences when pitched directly into wort. Large breweries often save and blend the first batch produced in this way. Homebrewers do not generally have this option. In any case, type B yeast is what we generally have close to the end of a fermentation. Aerating such yeast for about 2 hours prior to pitching will reduce the glycogen to about 5% and increase sterols to about 1%. Such yeast is in optimum form for immediate fermentation. The technique as described by Quain and Boulton (UK patent 2,197,341 1988) is to crop yeast from the fermenter, suspend in water and aerate until maximal oxygen uptake is reached (about 2 hrs), then pitch immediately into unaerated wort. They claim that during fermentation there will be a better consistency in yeast growth, a better attenuation profile and a better volatile spectrum. This is not the same thing at all as pitching aerobically propagated yeast. One of the main aims is to reduce the effect of oxygen requirement variations for different strains. It is well known that different strains require different amounts of O2, as does a single strain of varying vitality. By measuring the point of maximal oxygen uptake in the above method, a given yeast sample is basically using up the amount of oxygen it requires for optimum vitality: no more oxygen is required after this peak is reached. Lag times will also obviously be reduced, and fermentations should be more consistent by standardising yeast vitality. The technique as applied to homebrewing could be (based on ref 2): - obtain about 1% by volume of yeast slurry from primary fermenter eg. collect 200ml *thick* slurry from 20l batch. Assuming dry weight of yeast/slurry is about 60%, gives a pitching rate of 6g/l, or ~10 million cells/ml. (Alternatively collect about 1/4 of slurry present.) - dilute with water by 10:1 (eg. 2l in example) (They specifically mention water rather than wort) - keep aerated for 2 hours (by shaking often, whilst open to atmosphere (cotton wool plug), or with aquarium pump) - not with pure O2! - pitch into unaerated wort. (You'd also have to reduce wort volume by 10% to compensate. ) I haven't tried this, so don't know how well it works. It is claimed to be superior for commercial use, and looks easy for homebrewers too (no more O2 cylinders and guesswork, shaking carboys etc.), so I plan on giving it a shot at some stage. A DO meter would ideally be required to test this, but 2 hours was a general kind of time. Someone with a DO meter care to try this too? Looney Andy from Sydney. PS. If there is any interest I can follow up on this once I obtain the exact patent. refs. (1) C. Boulton et al "Yeast physiological condition and fermentation performance" Proc. Cong. Eur. Brew. Conv. 23:385-392, 1991 (2) G. Callaerts et al "Relationship between trehalose and sterol accumulation during oxygenation of cropped yeast" 1993 J. Am. Brew. Chem. v51 pp75-77. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:47:40 -0500 From: Vicky <rcci at mindspring.com> Subject: About the bulk raspberries: more info OK folx! Many of you hit me up about the raspberries, and boy, what enthusiasm! Anyway, here's the scoop: The raspberries come only in 42 lb mylar bags with spouts. The bags are in boxes, but shipping them would be risky at best. I proposed to the brewery which has the stuff that they put the bags in milk crates, then box *that*. I'm waiting for a reply, and will update the group when I find out. It'll up the shipping cost a bit, but it should protect the berries from the UPS monster. Meanwhile, I'm also finding out exactly how much of this stuff they've got, since I got so many requests. I'll have an update before the end of the week, and let everyone know. Finally: How about a collection of raspberry recipies? Since this stuff is going to be all over, what do you have? I'll get my new ones together and start the ball rolling, shall I? Wassail! vicky rowe ---paging through my archaic hand written brew log for the raspberry recipes.. meadster at large - -- - --------------------------- The Home page: www.mindspring.com/~rcci/vicky The Biz page: www.rcci.com/ (my company, that is) The Scottish Country Dance Page: www.mindspring.com/~rcci/scd ===================================================== The thing to do with a silly remark is to fail to hear it. --Zebadiah J. Carter Where I come from, anyone who says "Excuse me" is a human being. --Joe The return address has been despammed. Remove spammersdie from my address to reply. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:00:27 -0800 From: Kyle Druey <druey at ibm.net> Subject: 3 rad/s? / Carbonating Bavarian Weissbier Brew Dudes: John Wilkinson: >to exceed 188 rpm to reach 3 meters/second tip speed. That sounds >pretty fast and I don't think I exceeded that. Like John and Kenny Eddy, I estimated the maximum safe rpm at about 180 rpm which seemed high to me also. Seems that listing the angular velocity would be more appropriate, and perhaps the Siebel number of 3 m/s is really 3 rad/s? 3 m/s on a ferris wheel would be alot different than 3 m/s on an ice cream mixer. Maybe the Siebel brothers Jethro and George could check this again. If the number is 3 rad/s then that translates to about 29 rpm, which is in line with Jack S' 30 rpm estimate. But at 30 rpm, it was reported that a vortex was created, so a slower speed is still needed. Interestingly enough, in Eric Warner's book "German Wheat Beer", the maximum safe mixing speed is listed as 40 rpm (p. 77)... Charlie Scandrett: >But if there remains a static or laminar layer on the heated surface, >it overheats, causing enzyme, head protein damage and possible >scorching. The point of RIMS and mashmixing is to keep all heated >surfaces turbulent AND to promote mechanically assisted convection. This was exactly my point, much better stated by Charlie. For a typical RIMS temperature boost the flow is about 2 gpm through the 1.5" copper pipe. Using the viscosity of water this equates to a Reynolds number of about 3750, which is borderline turbulent flow. Obviously wort has a higher viscosity than water, and I will let the HBD engineers figure out how it decreases the Reynolds #. But practically speaking, the flow through the RIMS heating chamber during temperature boosts is probably at the very least transitional, meaning there is probably not a problem with heat distribution. Now the real question becomes how does one determine if you have turbulent flow when mixing? And again, how slow does the mixing rpm have to be to avoid HSA/enzymatic degradation/blade shear of the grist, and still achieve adequate temperature distribution? ********************************************************************** Bavarian Weissbier Carbonation It is almost wheat beer weather here in sunny California and I am craving a weissbier. Any tips on how to adquately carbonate Bavarian Weissbier in a corny keg? I guess the carbonation guideline is something like 3 to 5 volumes. Do I need to crank up the pressure and use a 10' or 15' of 3/16" diameter beer line to keep adequate carbonation in the keg? Any suggestions would be appreciated. Kyle Druey Bakersfield, CA "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -Ben Franklin Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 20:21:55 -0500 From: PBSys at softhome.net Subject: 7th. N.Y. CITY SPRING REG. HOMEBREW 7th. Ann. NEW YORK CITY SPRING REG. HOMEBREW COMPETITION=A9=20 Sunday, March 22, 1998 - 10:00 a.m. SNUG HARBOR CULTURAL CENTER Rm G-201 Visitor's Center 1000 Richmond Ter. Staten Island, New York 10301 The seventh annual New York City Spring Regional Competition will take place on Sunday, March 22nd., at Staten Island's historic Snug Harbor Cultural Center. The competition is both BJCP and AHA sanctioned and sponsored by the Homebrewers of Staten Island. All judging will take place at Snug Harbor. Judging will begin promptly at 10:00 am. The first round judging will be a closed session. Best of show judging will take place, after a lunch break, at 3:00 p.m. and will be open to the public. Sal Pennachio, award winning brewer of New York Harbor Ale will be on BOS panel. First Prize is a Stainless steel brew kettle with bottom drain and thermometer from PBS $295.00 value). Over $1,000.00 in other prizes will be given away Last years competition brought 228 entries. This year we are expecting a minimum of 275. As we are in the middle of brewing season most brewers should have a number of entries. Snug Harbor Cultural Center is located 1 mile west of the Staten Island Ferry Terminal. If you need directions please contact Ken Johnsen at (718)-987-7202 or leave a message at (718)-667-4459 Complete information; prizes, categories, rules and deadlines can be found at URL hhtp://www.wp.com/hosi/companno.html The following locations will accept entries between 3/1/98 and 3/18/98 The Brew Brothers at KEDCO, Farmingdale L.I., NY 11735-1168 Hop, Skip & A Brew' Ridgewood N.Y. 11385 New York Homebrew, Carle Place NY 11514 Arbor Wine & Beermaking Supplies, East Islip, NY 11730 Hop & Vine, Morristown, N.J., 07960 U-Brew, Milburn, N.J., 07041 The Barnegat Bay Brewing Co., Toms River, N.J., 08755 Brew Crafters Inc., Turnersville, NJ 08012 Brunswick Brewing Supply, Highland Park, NJ 08904 Keg & Barrel, Forked River, NJ 08731 The Home Brewery, Bogota, N. 07603 The Princeton Homebrew Depot, Princeton N.J., 08542 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:46:16 -0600 (CST) From: folsom at ix.netcom.com Subject: War of the Worts 98 Results I figured I'd better et this post out, but my wife was answering phone requests for the results of the competition before I was even home from it. I'd like to make some thank-yous, also. First to the 36 judges who came and helped make this event run so smoothly. Second, our prize coordinator, who didn't even blink when I told him I needed prizes for 22 categories! I believe strongly in keeping categories at a reasonable size, to allow fair comparisons of beers, and give the best feedback to brewers. That's a great theory, but it puts a lot of pressure on those soliciting prizes! Third, the members of the Keystone Hops who pitched in to help, finding work that needed to be done and doing it, without waiting for requests. Fourth to Barry DeLapp for his software (and support of it). I can't imagine running a contest without this package. Next, to our host, EdMcGowan, of Buckinham Mountain Brewery. He treats us well, and provides an excellent site. Please stop by, drink his beers, and thank him in person. Finally, to the 140+ brewers who submitted 360 entries!! We just keep growing, a tribute to all who help, and to all who participate. Two sites have agreed to post the winner's lists. They are: http://burp.org/competitions/wotw98.htm http://www.the-gourmet-brewer.com/competitions/WofW98.htm If someone truly needs individual scores, they can email me, but we anticipate having score sheets out no later than next monday. Thanks again to all who helped, and all who participated! Cheers, Al Folsom Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:31:44 EST From: AllDey <AllDey at aol.com> Subject: Counter flow wort chiller, pumping, RIMS questions As I ponder improvements to my p-RIMS, I've assempled a few questions: 1) Getting primed: I want to can the old immersion chiller and build a counter flow. I need to use my Teel 180F-rated pump so will need to pass the hot wort through the chiller first (and some recommend this approach anyway). What's a good way to start the siphon through the chiller and to the pump? My pump is mounted low on a rack straight beneath the mash/lauter tun. - I turn it off and on a few times with hot water in the system to burp the air out of the lines prior to dough in (I could put a relief valve in the tee-high point- coming out of the keg but would rather keep my thermometer there :{). This works ok but I don't expect similar results with a long coil somewhere upstream. And I sure don't want HSA. 2) Speaking of mounting your pump - I've seen web pages showing pumps mounted every which way. Granted, some of these may be self-priming but others I know are not. Shouldn't the pump be mounted with the intake the highest point to avoid cavitation? 3) I'm fishing for handy solutions for drawing samples from the spargate for pH and gravity testing. Any thoughts RE a sample port design?...winning entries get a sincere thank you and a standing invite to sample beer next time you're in Cheyenne. 4) I can't sleep knowing there may be critters watching me from my watch glass. The wort level indicator on my kettle has small hose (1/4") which means it doesn't work that great and seems a safe harbor for nasties because its hard to clean. For these and other reasons, I'm gonna drill a new hole (the old one rose from the exit pipe at the 5.0 gal mark) and make a new level indicator. I'd like to use glass as I subscribe to that reckless school of the plastic polymer dis-enchanted: the question - how to create something that can be easily disassembled and cleaned? Responders resulting in a chuckle, a new level indicator, or a germ of an idea may get a beer named in their honor. Flames can't hurt me. I'm outta here before the RIMS police arrive.... ps. I'll post a summary to the digest. Paul, Cheyenne WY - Home of the 4th Annual 8 Seconds of Froth - coming June 20th. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 06:46:27 -0500 From: "P. Edwards" <pedwards at iquest.net> Subject: Powdery mildew Jethro wrote: >Hops. >Also, we learned that my prediction of hop shortages and price increases >secondary to the powdery mildew infestation in the US are unfounded. I have some additional info on this: The organism that causes powdery mildew in hops came into the US on some imported rhizomes (from Germany, I think) and quickly spread. One of our club members happens to be an entymologist (did I spell that right??) for DowElanco. He was involved in getting an emergency certification from the US Dept of Ag for a DowElanco pesticide that is effective against the particular critter that causes powdery mildew in hops. Seems this pesticide has been used abroad and in other applications domestically, but was never certified for use on hops grown in the US, as hops are a "minor crop" to our gov't & don't garner a lot of attention from the regulatory folks. Bottom line was that the certification was granted, pesticide was applied and the hop crop was saved. But now the US growers have a new problem that will continue to need attention. Oh, and by the time the hops are harvested and dried, the pesticide has dissapated, not to worry. - --Paul E. Indianapolis, IN Return to table of contents
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