---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Apology and Harper's offer (TheTHP)
  Propane Cylinders (Tom_Williams)
  Propane, butane & methane (Tom Clark)
  Silicone Lube & Kool Kegs (RooJahMon)
  Chlorination (AJ)
  Re: Keeping Cornelius Kegs Cool at Parties? (Michael Rasmussen)
  Re: Keeping kegs cool  at  parties ("Robert J. Waddell")
  One-inch rigid foam insulation (nlerner)
  Cool Kegs (KennyEddy)
  Balanced beer and hop utilization (Brian S Kuhl)
  Hop-Go-Round (Jeff Renner)
  beer exchange (Kevin TenBrink)
  Re: keeping Corny kegs cool (Sean Mick)
  Re:Ringwood ale yeast ("shawnbrew")
  Specialty Grains ("Gregg Soh")
  Re: What happend to the Wahl-Henius Handy Book (Fredrik Staahl)
  First time doubts (David McCarthy)
  Window A/C for cold box (Forrest Duddles)
  DME starters, ("David R. Burley")
  Small Trub particles, ("David R. Burley")
  keg lube, foam insulation, underletting RIMS ("C.D. Pritchard")
  Chlorine In Brew Water ("C.D. Pritchard")
  Infusion, Scorching (Jack Schmidling)
  celis ("Kevin F. Schramer")
  Float Switches/Out of Fluid Sensors (aquinn)
  Packaged dry yeast ("Dr. Dwight A Erickson")




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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 13:59:49 EST
From: TheTHP at aol.com
Subject: Apology and Harper's offer

First of all I'd like to publically apoligize for so hippocritically critizing
Eric Fouch for his post on bad brewpubs. Secondly, to show there are no hard
feelings... Eric, How about I buy you a beer at Harpers? I'm going to be in
the area on Tuesday night (2/3/98) and I propose that we and anybody else out
there in HBD land meet there and have a brew or two. Jim Booth and other
members of the Capital City Brew Crew have offered to contact the Head Brewer
so we can get a tour of the facitlities.  What do you Say?

Phil Wilcox
Poison Frog Home Brewery
ps. please excuse the typos, its hard to type witha foot in your mouth ;<)

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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 08:40:15 -0500
From: Tom_Williams at cabot-corp.com
Subject: Propane Cylinders


Darrell Garton posts about propane cylinders (much interesting material
snipped):

>So, here's what you do...
>Don't go out and buy new cylinders!!  All you have to do is get your
>existing cylinder inspected before April, and you're good till 2002!!
I'm still a little confused.  I have 3 cylinders: one for my grill, one for
my cajun cooker, and one spare.  Whenever I empty a cylinder (always during
use), I swap it for the spare, and then a day or so later take the empty
spare for more gas.

First question:  I thought I was burning LP gas, not propane.  Are the
rules different?

Second question: I remember a long time ago getting an empty cylinder
acutally refilled at the hardware store (remember when we used to have
hardware stores?).  Now, I either go to the gas station or Home Depot,
where they exchange the empty cylinder for a full one.  I always select one
which has been recently repainted because my wife doesn't like the "ugly"
ones.  I assume that any periodic inspection is done by the store, but I
have never checked.  Should I stop swapping cylinders and find a place to
refill them?  Should I be more careful about selecting the full cylinder?


Tom Williams
Dunwoody, Georgia
2.3 miles from Home Depot store #1, and eagerly awaiting the arrival of
Lowes.



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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 08:57:57 -0500
From: Tom Clark <rtclark at eurekanet.com>
Subject: Propane, butane & methane

In HBD #2622, RHG did a great job of posting informative data concerning 
Propane, Butane and Methane (natural gas).  

My personal experience has been with a "Cajun Cooker" type propane 
burner being used to french fry a whole turkey.  I found that where 
natural gas is usually used at about 6 - 8 ounces pressure, these big 
jet engine type propane burners operate at about 15 PSIG.  This, of 
course would have an effect on the difference in orifice size.

For safety's sake, don't take any propane or butane tank indoors.  Where 
natural gas is lighter than air and will more readilly dissipate, 
propane and butane are heavier than air and will settle into the lowest 
part of any area. 

Tom Clark


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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 07:14:20 -0700
From: RooJahMon <RooJahMon at Brew-Meister.com>
Subject: Silicone Lube & Kool Kegs

Dear John,
	(sorry, couldn't help myself) I started using silicone spray about 6
months ago and love it. It imparts no taste to the beer, and the
fittings are much easier to use. I got mine from a local homebrew shop,
he had to order it, but he bought 3 and sold them all right away. The
stuff is "Food Grade" and I think is intended for lubing/protecting meat
cutting equipment. If you can't find it, you might try a resturaunt
supply place. The can was seven or eight bucks, but it's big so I don't
think I'll need a new one for years.


KRooney,
	Trash cans man, trash cans! Really, the old college stand by, the $10
Rubbermaid 35(?) gallon job, will fit 3 - 5gal kegs and 20lb of ice no
problem. Just be careful of the CO2 bottle, drunk buddies are hard on
them. I usually strap mine to the side of the can (duct tape or
tie-downs) and hide that part of the can in  the corner. What they cant
see they probably won't break.

 

Unless Otherwise Specified:
	RHG

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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 11:47:36 -0400
From: ajdel at mindspring.com (AJ)
Subject: Chlorination

This post is in response to a fairly recent thread on the general subject
of chlorination. One of the questions that was raised (though I can't
remember if it was here or in the related private correspondence) was
whether water plants use chlorine gas or hypochlorite solution to treat
their water. Yesterday I visited the J. J. Corbalis water treatment plant
belonging to the Fairfax County (VA) Water Authority, saw how chlorine is
introduced there and thought the group might be interested.

The chlorine in purchased in cylinders which contain 1 ton of liquid
chlorine. These cylinders are equipped with standpipes very like those in
CO2 syphon bottles which allow liquid to be drawn (although there is a
separate pipe which allows the gas phase to be taken if that is what is
desired). The cylinders are quite large physically and are placed on their
sides (long axis horizontal) on a scale whose reading is monitored in the
control room so that a new cylinder can be selected when the one on line is
depleted.

Liquid chlorine is piped, through a "V-notch" valve, to a heated
evaporation chamber operated at less than atmospheric pressure. The vacuum
is produced by the process water flowing through a venturi located some
distance from the evaporator location. Gas flows from the evaporation
chamber to the venturi and is there "sucked" into the water stream. The
V-notch valve opening is controlled by a gas flow meter line to the venturi
(and presumably by pressure monitors which would shut off the flow if the
chamber pressure rose).

The primary consideration in the design is safety. As the plumbing which
conveys the gas to the injector is operated at negative pressure gas will
not be released if a pipe develops a leak. The chlorine is purchased and
stored in "small" cylinders in order to limit the amount of chlorine which
would be released in the event of a rupture. The room in which the on-line
cylinders are kept is equipped with an elaborate ventillation system
(louvres and fans) which  operate automatically whenever the room is
entered. The room contains a huge tank full of lye solution. If a chlorine
monitor is tripped, powerfull fans draw the air from vents near the floor
(chlorine is heavier than air) through this tank making bleach (see my
earlier post on this subject) and release nearly clean air to the outside.

As Ken Schwarz mentioned in #2624 most modern plants send water to the
consumer chlorinated with chloramine rather than free chlorine and this
plant is no exception. The chlorine injection takes place as the water is
entering the clearwells which provide temporary storage of finished water
amounting to somewhat less than an eigth of the plant's average daily
production. As the water leaves the clearwells to enter the distribution
system ammonia gas is injected which reacts with the clorine to form
chloramine. Clearwell chlorine concentration is typically 3 - 4 ppm. In the
distributed water all but about 0.1 ppm is converted to chloramine.

 As Ken mentioned, boiling is much less effective at removing chloramine
than it is at removing free chlorine, but the plant's chief operator said
that chloramine will evaporate if water is left to stand long enough. I'm
skeptical about that statement but it shoud be easy enough to verify by
test.

As for the rest of the process: it's pretty straight forward. The water
comes from the Potomac river. Potassium permanganate is added at the intake
to keep algae from growing in the 4 miles of pipe to the plant and reduce
TOC. At the plant, aluminum polychloride is added to induce floc formation
and the pH is adjusted with lye, lime or sulfuric acid as necessary to
produce good floculation and turn out water which is not too aggressive.
Polish filtration is through activated carbon and fine sand.

Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore.



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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 08:23:31 -0800
From: Michael Rasmussen <mikeraz at patch.com>
Subject: Re: Keeping Cornelius Kegs Cool at Parties?

I've set my kegs in a standard rectangular cooler and wrapped bubble
wrap around the top.  This kept 2 corny kegs drinkably cool in high 80
temps last summer.

- --
Michael Rasmussen - mikeraz at patch.com     
 Better a brewer than a banker be.
 Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity

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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 09:41:32 -0700
From: "Robert J. Waddell" <rjw at dimensional.com>
Subject: Re: Keeping kegs cool  at  parties


KROONEY at genre.com asks:
> I'd like to serve several beers in Cornelius kegs at an outdoor party.  I
> was thinking about building a rectangular wooden box to hold 3 or 4 kegs,
> ice & CO2 tank.  Has anyone done this who is willing to share his/her
> ideas?  Does anyone have an alternative for keeping them cool outside the
> refrigerator?

Go to http://www.4rapid1.com and order the catalogue from Rapids
Wholesale Equip. Co.  On page B33 you will find what some folks call
"Jockey Boxes".  A Jockey Box is a picnic cooler with coiled SS tubing
inside, a flange on the back to connect your keg, and a tap handle on 
the front.  The idea is to fill the cooler with ice, which chills the beer
on the way to the tap.  I bought the single product Box and love it, but
you can get them with up to 3 products.

By the way, Rapids is a wholesale outfit.  So make up a name for your
brewery when you order your catalogue so they think they are dealing
with a business.

RJW
                      I *L*O*V*E* my [Pico] system.  'Cept for that
                      gonging noise it makes when my wife throws it
                      off the bed at night.
                      Women...
                                         --Pat Babcock

          *** It's never too late to have a happy childhood!  ***
********************************************************************
RJW at dimensional.com      / Opinions expressed are usually my own but
Robert J. Waddell       / perhaps shared.     ICQ #7136012
Owner & Brewmaster: Barchenspeider Brew-Haus   Longmont, Colorado
********************************************************************
                    (4,592 feet higher than Jeff Renner)

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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 12:06:07 -0500
From: nlerner at mcp.edu (nlerner)
Subject: One-inch rigid foam insulation

Boston-area brewers:  I have a fairly large supply of blue one-inch
rigid foam insulation that I'd gladly give away to anyone willing to
come and get 'em.  They came to me as packing material in some cabinets
we had shipped to us, and there's probably enough to make at least two
lagering or insulated cabinets for 5-gallon glass carboys.  If
interested, contact me at nlerner at mcp.edu.

	Neal Lerner
	Brookline, MA

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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 11:56:22 EST
From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Subject: Cool Kegs

KROONEY asks:

  I'd like to serve several beers in Cornelius kegs at an outdoor party.  I
  was thinking about building a rectangular wooden box to hold 3 or 4 kegs,
  ice & CO2 tank.  Has anyone done this who is willing to share his/her
  ideas?  Does anyone have an alternative for keeping them cool outside the
  refrigerator?

First, might I ask that we all include at least a first name, nickname, or
something other than an email address.  It lends a greater sense of community,
even without Rennerian Coordinates.

Onto the question.  Your idea is workable; might I suggest that you put wheels
and a long handle on it, paint it red, and add the words "Radio Flyer" to the
side?  ;-)  For a simpler if less pretty solution, I (and many others) have
used fermenter buckets successfully.  Hardware-store 5-gallon buckets are fine
too; they're not as deep but as long as the bottom of the keg stays cool, the
drawn beer will too.  Place the prechilled keg in the bucket, add ice, and
wrap with a blanket or towel for a little insulation.

In the next post KROONEY identifies himself as "Kevin" (thanks, Kev, but my
above suggestion still holds for the rest of yens) and asks:

  I have seen a few documents in cyberspace explaining how to build a CP
  bottle filler using a picnic tap, copper tube and rubber stopper.  For
  someone who bottles infrequently, is this a reasonable alternative to the
  $50 or so for the real thing, or should I just drop the bucks?

CAUTION:  Blatant self-serving promotion follows...The CP bottler on my web
page (or the Spring 1997 issue of Zymurgy) is what I have used for well over a
year, and I feel it works *much* better than the commercial unit I paid way
too much for.  It's almost as simple as the stopper-and-tubing design but adds
true counterpressure capability.  I've never gotten more than 1/4" of foam on
the surface during bottling and usually I get just a film of bubbles.  It
fully disassembles for cleaning and storage and depending on what pieces-parts
you have laying around will cost anywhere from nothing to maybe $20 to build.

*****
Ken Schwartz
El Paso, TX
KennyEddy at aol.com
http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy

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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 98 09:51:00 PST
From: Brian S Kuhl <Brian_S_Kuhl at ccm.fm.intel.com>
Subject: Balanced beer and hop utilization

Jeff York, you wrote in part...
>>Humbly submitted for assistance,
>>I brewed a 10-gallon batch of all-grain barley wine last Saturday, but I
>>have some concerns about the hopping rate.  

The following table from an article titled "Matching Hops with Beer Styles" 
by Quentin B. Smith in the 1990 "Zymurgy" Hops and Beer Special Issue may 
help. Other factors are just as important as OG, such as FG, sulfate 
content of the water, and the style of beer, but this will get you started:

Balanced Beer Hop Chart

        Wort OG             IBU
        -------             ---
        1.010                4
        1.020                8
        1.030               12
        1.040               16
        1.050               24
        1.060               32
        1.070               40
        1.080               48
        1.090               56
        1.100               64


>>Did I get more utilization over a 10 gallon batch than I would have with a 5?

I would say not. Hop utilization is based upon mostly boil time, not the volume 
of wort. Another factor influencing hop utilization is specific gravity. Does 
your calculator take specific gravity into account? 
See this web page of some excellent information on hops and utilization...
http://204.152.97.15/hops/

Brian Kuhl

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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 13:46:46 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Hop-Go-Round

Mark Weaver <HeadBrewer at eci.com> wrote:

>Nothing beats a good set of notes, including
>all your hop IBU calculations (grams x % alpha acid x 1000 x extraction
>rate then devided by total liters of wort). I find it easy to do the hop
>calculations on paper, and staple it to my recipe profile.

While these calculations are indeed trivial, I recently bought a circular
slide rule kind of a calculator called "Dr. Bob Technical's Incredible
Hop-Go-Round," by Alephenalia Publications of Seattle, that makes them even
simpler.  It is a stiff plastic 8" diameter disk with two smaller disks,
all held together with a brass rivet.  The scales (from outer to inner) are
batch size (1-100 gallons), hops (oz. or gm.), hops utilization rate, hop
alpha acid, and two IBU readout windows, one for using ounces and one for
grams.  You just line up the appropriate scales and read out the answer.
You can use it to determine IBUs based on amount of hops used, or
backwards, by entering IBUs and figure how much hops to use.  On the back
is a hops utilization rate estimator chart (same as one in the Zymurgy hops
issue wall poster by Randy Mosher) which is about right for my setup, some
typical hop AA, a beer bitterness guidline by style and directions for use.

The difference here is kind of like the difference between an analog clock
or speedometer and a digital one.  You can move the dials and see how the
bitterness or hops change.  I like this visualization.

I think I paid about $8.00 at the local HB shop.  They make a recipe
calculator as well, but I haven't bought it.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 



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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 13:35:34 -0700
From: Kevin TenBrink <tenbrink at jps.net>
Subject: beer exchange

Hello:
First, I would like to voice my support for the suggestion Jeff Renner
made in #2621 when he mentioned that contest results and other
trivalities need not be published in their entirety to the digest.  I
agree that this is indeed a waste of bandwidth and would think a
hyperlink to a web page where the information is available would be in
the better interest of the digest.
Ok, with that said.....I have had this idea kicking around in my head
for a few weeks now and wanted to know if any of you would like to
participate.  I think it would be cool if we could organize some kind of
"beer swap" where readers of this digest could exchange beer via UPS,
RPS or some other NON-USPS type delivery service.  If there is indeed
enough interest, I would be happy to assume the organizational role.
What do you all think of this idea?  Does anyone want to participate?

Kevin TenBrink
Salt Lake City
http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/8222



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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 14:46:17 -0800 (PST)
From: homebrew at dcn.davis.ca.us (Sean Mick)
Subject: Re: keeping Corny kegs cool

Kevin Rooney asked about keeping his corny keg cool while serving at an
outdoor party. Before I had a dedicated refrigerator, I simply used a
"retired" 6 gallon bucket. Set the corny keg inside, fill with chipped ice,
top with water for better cooling, and seal with a lid. Cut a hole in the
lid large enough to slip it right over the keg, thereby locking in the ice,
and keeping the keg stationary. Works like a charm, used it for parties and
a wedding so far.

Sean Mick
Mick's Homebrew Supplies
http://www.dcn.davis.ca.us/~homebrew



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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 18:43:08 -0600
From: "shawnbrew" <sabrewer at fgi.net>
Subject: Re:Ringwood ale yeast

  I recently used Yeast Labs "English Ale" yeast on an ESB I made last =
sunday. 6 days later it's still
sitting on top in a very gnarley looking skin.Below the beer level there =
is this large nasty looking colonies
that are producing bubbles every so often.I imagine this is the =
yeast,but have never used this one before.
Anyone out there tried this one?I'm not really worried,I've used top =
croppers before,but this one looks wierd.
Ever seen Wyeast Amer.2?Scared me the first time I saw it! Any feedback =
on this would be helpful.
   Private e-mail ok          Shawn Andrews



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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 23:03:11 PST
From: "Gregg Soh" <greggos at hotmail.com>
Subject: Specialty Grains

I have always wondered how it differed if specialty grains were merely 
steeped alone(for an extract brew) and if they were mashed together with 
diastatic malt(in a partial mash or an all-grain). Specialty grains have 
virtually no enzymes, so do they differ in any way when in a mash in an 
all-grain setting?

Greg

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 14:52:07 +0100
From: Fredrik.Stahl at math.umu.se (Fredrik Staahl)
Subject: Re: What happend to the Wahl-Henius Handy Book

The full title is "American Handybook of the Brewing, Malting and Auxiliary
Trades". I don't know what happened but I've heard that it's pretty hard to
find. As a last resort look at <http://hubris.engin.umich.edu:8080/Wahl/>
which has 500 (!) scanned pages this book. It's a pretty amazing collection
of information ranging from basic arithmetics and physics to practical
brewing.

/Fredrik Stahl, Umea, Sweden



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Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 14:03:22 +0000
From: David McCarthy <david.mccarthy at virgin.net>
Subject: First time doubts

I'm sure I'm not alone in my doubts about my first ever batch, but could 
do with a little guidance. 

I have adopted the most simple of brews for my first attempt. I used a 
Hopped Malt Extract, and made up the wort by adding the specified amount 
of water. I think that I added the yeast too early, and  the higher 
temperature killed it  (a mistake I'll learn from), because a day and a 
half later, I checked on my brew, and sure enough there was no foam. I 
added some more yeast (2 packets of dried), and a day later, it started 
fermenting. The start OG was 1040, and after an additional 7 days, the 
OG was 1010, and the foaming had slowed right down. I siphoned into a 
conditioning cask, adding some priming sugar. After 10 days at 18-20F, I 
moved the plastic cask down to my kitchen (at around 15F). The next day, 
I decided to try a wee sample, and there was hardly any pressure, and I 
had to add a burst of CO2 just to get a sample out. 

The beer was very hazy, and smelt and tasted of pure yeast. I only had a 
mouthful, but it didn't sit well in my stomach. I know that 12 days 
conditioning is probably not sufficient, but should the beer taste so 
yeasty ? When I siphoned it off, it didn't taste quite this strong. 

Can anybody advise me ?


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Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 09:05:14 -0500
From: Forrest Duddles <fridge at Imbecile.kzoo.edu>
Subject: Window A/C for cold box

Greetings folks,

  John Varady asked about cooling a cold room with a window a/c unit.
George De Piro reports getting good results at near-freezing temperatures
by using a window unit with a remote temperature controller. Jeff Lawrence
gave some good suggestions for insulating panels suitable for cold room
construction. He also suggests that a window a/c unit will  provide a
maximum 20 degF temperature drop from ambient, which seems to contradict
the success George reports.

 I'm sure Jeff knows what is going on here, but I'd like to add to what has
been posted in order to clarify things a bit (hopefully) for others out there.

 A window a/c unit is a compact, high temperature, refrigeration system. It
has been carefully designed to cool and dehumidify the air in a room. The
moisture (condensate) from the air is collected in the bottom of the unit
and drained outside the conditioned space (usually through a small hose).
 
 It is very important for the evaporator coil temperature remain slightly
above freezing or ice will form on the coil surface and block air flow.
Typical design temperatures might be 35 degF evaporator temperature at a
maximum outdoor temperature of 100 degF, and 70 degF in the conditioned
space. The component sizes and refrigerant type have been chosen to
optimize performance under these design conditions.  

 This does not mean that a window a/c cannot operate at temperatures above
or below those for which it was designed.

 Window a/c units are available with many different capacities, some large
enough to cool an entire modest sized home.  What the engineers can't
predict is the size or heat load of the room in which the a/c unit will be
placed. If a unit with a small capacity is placed in a room with a large
heat load, it will never cool to the desired setpoint. Conversely, if a
unit with a large capacity is placed in a room with a small heat load, it
will be capable of over-cooling the space and may short-cycle and not
properly dehumidify the air. The temperature controller is usually limited
to a minimum setpoint of 50 degF to prevent evaporator icing under these
conditions.

Most window a/c units have a *much* larger capacity than a domestic
refrigerator or freezer. Capacity is why freezer guts aren't a good option
for John's cold room (approximatly 320 cu.ft.- assuming an 8' ceiling).
However, they might work well for George's cold box though (30 cu.ft).

 The success George reports is likely due to using a relatively large unit
in a small space. He may have trouble with icing during periods of high
humidity unless the unit cycles off long enough to defrost. 

  John's cold room is much larger than George's, but the temperature
demands are bettter suited for a window a/c unit and should be easy to
achieve. 



 
 
Hope this helps!
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
Forrest Duddles - FridgeGuy in Kalamazoo
fridge at Imbecile.kzoo.edu

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Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 10:10:52 -0500
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: DME starters,

Brewsters:

Troy Hager says:

> know that most of you (from what I have read and heard)
 use DME for your
>starters because of the ease of measurement, etc., but
 am wondering if
>anyone out  there has a source for some at a reasonable
 price. My HB shop
>sells it for $3.50/ lb. and sells the liquid extract for half
 that price.
>Does everyone cough up that amount for the DME or
 am I missing something
>here...

Well, you may be missing that you are not buying water
 when you buy dried malt extract ( DME) and so are getting
 more malt solids in a pound. Although it varies, assume
 the extract liquid is about 70% malt sugars and go from
 there.  You will find in some cases the DME is marginally
 more expensive, but you don't use much in a starter and
 measuring by the spoonful is convenient. Many extracts
 now a days have other sugars added, so unless the
 extract you buy says 100% malt, it probably isn't.  This
 can lead to a nitrogen/amino acid poor starter. This is
 not what you want in a starter.   OTOH, I have used malt
 syrup extract based starer for years, just to avoid the DME
 bricks which form when DME is not kept tightly sealed in
 a moisture proof container, so either method works fine.
 After you open the liquid malt extract, I keep it in a =

refrigerator and tightly sealed in a plastic container.
- ----------------------------------------------
Jeandwe says:

>I have just started mashing two batches ago . Everything
 is working out ok
>except  my finished beer is not clear . What would cause
 this ?

Try using just pale *ale* malts without adjuncts in your
 first few attempts. Move to flaked adjuncts and then to
 step infusions.  Chances are you chose malts which
 need a lower temperature hold to clean up any gums, etc.
 You also may not be holding long enough before
 mashout  and are getting a starchy beer.
- -----------------------------------------------
On the subject of mashout and enzymes.  I agree with
 AlK in that if you hold long enough and at a high enough
 temperature during the mashing, then knocking out that =

last bit of alpha amylase will not greatly affect the sugar =

content or types a lot.  However, remember that just =

because the iodine test does not show starch does not =

mean that the alpha amylase is not still actively forming =

shorter and shorter chain dextrins from the low-molecular =

weight starches. If beta is still around then the sugars are =

being formed also, changing the dextrin/sugar ratio. No =

mashout means this process can continue all through the =

sparge.  If you were to mash at 140F , for an extreme =

example, and then sparge without raising the temperature =

to mashout this would mean the enzymes would continue =

to be active even into the boiler, perhaps. Mashout is an =

insurance policy which stabilizes the sugar/dextrin ratio =

and only cost 15 minutes - not very expensive. Besides =

it improves your sparge rate and efficiency.    =

- ------------------------------------------------
George De Piro says:

"Ethyl hexanoate, an ester, is perceived as licorice by
 some people.  =

     Some people perceive it as apples, I happen to
 perceive it as =

     licorice.  At 0.5 ppm it is quite strong (to me)."

Thanks George, I can theoretically see how this could be =

formed easily in system such as beer.  Any idea of the =

mechanism and is the sensation of apples vs licorice =

concentration dependent? The question is - why does =

this appear from time to time (in my experience only in =

British ales) and what causes it? Is it yeast health related?
- -------------------------------------------------
Keep on brewin'


Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Dave_Burley at compuserve.com  =

Voice e-mail OK =


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Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 10:10:48 -0500
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Small Trub particles,

Brewsters:

Jim Wallace says:

>"as of
>late I have had several problem batches and they have all had 2 things i=
n
>common: they were made w/ Marris Otter Malt and have had a small amt of
>dark malts (choc,black,roast)..... I have made many dark beers before an=
d
>not had this problem. =


>My specific problem is that I get a very good hot break but the particle=
s
>are so small:
=2E.. and then says later on after describing pH and other factors.

>I have also increased my use of Irish Mosss from 1-tsp to 1-Tbsp per 5Ga=
l
>as per G/L Fix new book. could this have an effect?"

Yep, that is probably the problem giving you smaller particles.  Typicall=
y
the dosage for Irish moss is on the order a tsp per 5 gallon. I wonder if=

this was a typographical error in Fix's book? Try making a dark beer with=

Maris Otter Pale Ale malt in a single temperature infusion scenario ( you=

didn't say in your description) and see if you get the results you want.

The amount of protein produced as the hot break is dependent on the malt
and mashing conditions as AlK pointed out recently.

>I have just started using the Marris Otter. It seems to work fine with
Pale
> but when I add the dark grains I have a problem. I have been told that
>this malt has been heavily modified by the maltster.

I presume this is a pale *ale* type of malt.  Unfortunately the use of th=
e
descriptor "pale" can mean both highly modified ale type malts and less
modified pilsner style malts in the US and around the world as malts get
shipped from every country to every other country.  In Germany a pale mal=
t
will likely be a Pilsner malt type whereas in Britain it might be a pale
ale type, needing a different mashing schedule. I always try to avoid usi=
ng
the word "pale" by itself for this reason. Try AlK's suggestion of mashin=
g
both ways and judging from the cold break volume whether or not this is a=

pale ale malt.  I'll bet it is. =



Keep on brewin'


Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Dave_Burley at compuserve.com  =

Voice e-mail OK =


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Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 09:25:51
From: "C.D. Pritchard" <cdp at chattanooga.net>
Subject: keg lube, foam insulation, underletting RIMS 

John Robinson wondered about what sort of lubricant to use for ball-lock
keg fittings and mentioned a silicone spray he'd seen used.

I use Keg Lube (tm) from Williams Brewing (1-800-759-6025 + no
connection...). $3.90 for 1 oz.- a lifetime supply.  It's about the
consistency of vasoline so it's easier to apply only where it's needed than
a spray would be.  The only thing that needs lubing on a ball-lock fitting
is the o-ring itself and just a bare trace of lube is all that's needed.
The lube is fairly tenatious and will withstand several connect/disconect
cycles.  The stuff definitely extends the life of the disconnect o-rings by
reducing abrasion and (more importantly IMHO) reduces the probability of
leaks.  I initially suspected the lube might affect the heading properties
of homebrews but, I've not been able to detect any damage.
- --------------------------------------------

John V. mentioned using Styrofoam to insulate a coal room he's turning into
a cooler.  Foam is a very good choice except when you look at it's behavior
in fires.  When used as exposed interior room finish, plastic foams (not
just Stryofoam) are very bad actors under fire conditions- they burn with
astounding rapidity and emit large amounts of very toxic smoke.  To breifly
sum up the requirements of the model building codes: for use as wall and
ceiling insulation, foams either have to be separated from the building
interior with a barrier having a 1/2 hour fire-rating (usually 5/8" "type
X" gypsum wall board) or the foam must be a part of factory fabricated,
sheet metal encapsulated and fire-tested (i.e. $$$) panels such as those
used commerically for walk-in type coolers.  Depending on the fire test
results, sprinkler protection is sometimes required.  
    As always, local codes and your assessment of the risk may vary.  

    PS: Smaller projects which use foam (like the slick fermenter chamber
Ken Schwartz pioneered) cause little worry- heck, I've something similar to
Ken's in my garage.  It's room-size applications of foam that cause me a
bit of concern. 
- --------------------------------------------

  Just some thoughts on a RIMS with "reversed" flow through the bed: 
First, it's a very attractive idea since a floating grain bed has an
intuitive appeal to it and may provide a higher recirculation flow, but (ya
knew that was coming <g>) one will need to be very careful in designing the
pump suction piping and the manifold or screen atop the grain bed (is it
called a "false top"?).  If the flow is enough to cause the bed to truly
float, some sort of "false top" will be needed to keep grain out of the
recirc. plumbing.
   All of the available RIMS suitable pumps I'm aware of require "flooded
suction".  Basically, this means the pumps do not suck well- they require
positive pressure on their suction side- their flow degrades drastically if
too little pressure is available.  In an convientional tun with downward
flow, the pump is located beneath the tun where advantage can be taken of
the static pressure of the fluid in the tun.  With the pump's suction
located atop of the grain bed, there'll be precious little static pressure.
 One simple way to increase the static head available at the pump is to
lower the elevation of the pump- like Dave Burley suggested with his siphon
idea.  Also, a siphon type arrangement is probably the only feasible way to
accomodate varing grain bills.  The potiential fly-in-the-ointment is how
one starts the siphon- any trapped air in the siphon will reduce the flow
and will increase HSA.  Although it's a very inelegant, I'd opt for a air
vent valve atop the siphon which one opens and sucks on to remove the
trapped air.  How to avoid a mouthful of fluid at mash-in temp. is left as
an exercise for the reader...
    Assumming the siphon works, the problem may then be the pressure loss
in the manifold or screening at the top of the grain bed.  If the flow
through the bed is sufficient to cause the bed to float as suggested in the
orginal post, fine malt particles will tend to readily rise and be
entrained in the recirculation.  One would then either need to 1) use a
manifold or screen atop the bed which has very fine openings or 2) use
coarser openings and live with fines in the recirculation path. Using 1)
above will increase the pressure drop.  Since there's very little static
head atop the grain bed, not much pressure loss can be tolerated, hence the
flow may plunge.  I'm not sure what the effects of 2) might be.  A typical
RIMS does entrain fine particles as evidenced by their deposition on the
top of the grain bed during the recirculation; however, the grain bed acts
as filter and prevents their repeated recirculation.  I don't think one
could depend on this with a floating grain bed.

   Bottom lines (IMHO):  It may be both doable and worthwhile but: mount
the pump low, use 3/4" pump suction piping (to reduce the friction loss at
little added expense), make the upper reaches of the suction piping *air*
tight, get all the air out of the siphon before starting the pump, and be
prepared to experiment with various manifolds or screens atop the grain bed
and (perhaps) flows.  FWIW, before I go hacking on my RIMS, I'm gonna wait
for some brave HBer/gadgeteer with more spare time than I have to build
one.  If anyone builds an underletting RIMS, I'd sure like to hear how it
works!



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Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 09:55:46
From: "C.D. Pritchard" <cdp at chattanooga.net>
Subject: Chlorine In Brew Water

Mike Key had a question on his faucet mounted filter and Ken Schwartz
posted about his "HomeDepot-class" (I like that!) undersink cartridge
charcoal filter. 
Here's another data point:
I use a "bargin basement class" filter- an in-line filter intended for
supplying a icemaker.  About $6 as I recall, rated for 150 gals. and 0.75
gpm.  The later is overly optimistic IMHO so I use it at maybe 1/4 gpm max.
 1/4" Cu tubing was fitted on both ends, then 3/6" ID vinyl tubing followed
by attaching a hose fitting to the inlet end piece of tubing to mate with a
garden hose.

The resulting water has no chlorine taste or odor.  Still, Ken's solution
of using RO water and pitching minerals is still the best idea if you've a
convenient and inexpensive source of RO water.  Alas, I don't :-(



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Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 09:10:21 -0800
From: Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net>
Subject: Infusion, Scorching

From: GuyG4 <GuyG4 at aol.com>
Subject: Lauter geometry and sparge rate-summary and opinion

" I disagree with Al, who states we need to "run off at a 
relatively slow rate to give the sugars a chance to diffuse 
from the areas of stagnant wort into the runnings." I agree we 
need to go slow, I don't agree diffusion is significant.  I think 
flushing is the operative physical process....

Well, for what it's worth, I side with Al.  If for no other reason
than because the EASYMASHER works and it could not, if flushing
was the key.

If flushing was the answer, a lauter tun a mile high and the
diameter of the grist would be the ideal.

The reason an EM works is BECAUSE of diffusion.  Ponder a tube about
the size of your finger collecting ALL of the sugar from all of the 
nooks and crannies of a mash tun.... six inches to the right/left, 
even below it.  Upon completion of a sparge, you will find no more
sugar under it than above it.  Why?  Because of diffusion.

It's real easy to prove.  Just measure the gravity of the last quart
drawn off.  Add another quart of hot water, stir it all up and draw
another quart and you will find the gravity exactly the same as the
first (last) quart.  This of course, proves that no sugar was left
behind (under, over or around the EM).

I rest my case.

"and the chemical process is probably equilibrium of solutes, much more 
important than molecular diffusion.

Not quite sure what that means but I suspect I would disagree.

"From: Danny Breidenbach <dbreidenbach at nctm.org>
"Subject: Infusion mashing outside

"I've got an EasyMasher.  I've got an afterburner-style propane stove.
I've got a spot right outside my walk-out basement door.  Now the way I
understand EasyMashing -- I can use the burner to boost mash temp if it
should happen to fall.....

Not sure what an "afterburner-style propane stove" is but if you are
referring to the type used by folks to boil wort with, you are
asking for big trouble.  I have never seen one with anything like
the heat control you need to mash with.  You need a burner that
can whisper not roar.  Typically, a stove top burner set as low
as it will stay lit is about the amount of heat you need.

Scorching is the big trouble in this case.  Even with continual
mixing,  the amount of heat that is below the scorching threshold
is very low.  There is nothing quite like a scorched batch of beer
and absolutely no way to fix it.

js

- -- 
Visit our WEB pages: 
                        Beer Stuff.........  http://ays.net/jsp
                        Astronomy.......  http://user.mc.net/arf
             ASTROPHOTO OF THE WEEK..... New Every Monday


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Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 10:51:00 -0800
From: "Kevin F. Schramer" <humulus at megsinet.net>
Subject: celis

Now that we have been informed that Celis sucks ...let's 
do something useful and figure out how to brew something better....
afterall that's why i personally read homebrew digest.....to learn
about homebrewing.....i've tried brewing white several times, and
it has come out fairly well....but not great.....anybody have a highly
recommended white recipe?
here's what i brewed....i called it "Blanco de Belga"
4 lb 2-row pils
4 lb wheat malt
1/2 lb oat
1 oz kent golding (5%) 60 min
1/2 oz saaz (4.2%) 10 min.
3/4 oz bitter orange peel 20 min
1 oz ground coriander seed 5 min
og 1.046....was about 4.5% alcohol
what did i do wrong?
thanks....and now that Celis is down let's kick it....
kevinFschramer
humulus at megsinet.net

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Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 10:51:26 +0000
From: aquinn at postoffice.worldnet.att.net
Subject: Float Switches/Out of Fluid Sensors

I've noted some talk among the 2-level, 3 level, and RIMS types out 
there about automatic water level sensors built around a float valve.
My last issue of the Masterflex Tubing and Pump catalog from Cole 
Parmer lists a float switch (part number 07188-46/48).  It's chemical 
resistant, high or low level detect, 1/2 npt threaded, and comes in 
either a Ryton or Polysulfone model.  The price 26 - 28 dollars.  
There's also an out of fluid sensor, but its about $190.00.  
Additionally, the catalog also has tygon, pharmed, norprene food, 
Tygon silicon, and Peroxide/Platinum cured silicone tubing in 3 foot 
lengths instead of the normal 25 to 100 foot minimums.  The prices 
are astronomical though.

No affiliation with Cole Parmer, not a commerical post, do not 
operate motorized equipment after reading, shown to cause 
reproductive damage in laboratory rats, blah, blah, blah . . . 

Tony Quinn                   
aquinn at worldnet.att.net

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Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 10:36:13 -0700
From: "Dr. Dwight A Erickson" <colvillechiro at plix.com>
Subject: Packaged dry yeast

Greetings !
I frequently use dry packaged yeasts. The instructions always say to
pour the yeast
onto water (104ish degrees F) then stir after a few minutes, but in
any case
NOT to "go over"  15 minutes before pitching.

Does anyone know the reason for this ?  Wouldn't it be better to start
the yeast in a wort and let it "get going" for a few hours or even
days prior to pitching. Liquid yeasts
require this, so why wouldn't the dry ones be better if "pre-started"
too ?

Thanks to all who may have an answer or two for me !

Dr. Dwight Erickson
(the brewin chiropractor)
In (where the hell is) Colville  WA


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---