---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  RIMS electric element and rice hulls (Duarte George M NUWCDIVNPT)
  pack man (Lewis Good)
  Even Mash Temp ("Dana H. Edgell")
  pizza pan use (Mike Spinelli)
  NY City Spring Regional Comp. Results (kbjohns)
  Sierra Nevada/Ringwood Yeast ("Shawn Andrews")
  Bob's RIMS Qs (Kyle Druey)
  The Jethro Gump Report ("Rob Moline")
  Breiss Malt (Charles Hudak)
  Rice and Amylase Enzyme (Golgothus)
  Braggot Aging and Dry Hopping (Golgothus)
  mudbugs (MADwand)
  Freezer Thermostat/Timer Question (Jon Bovard)
  HBD (oberlbk)
  Malting ("J.Kish")
  Carbohydrates in beer (MacRae Kevin J)
  Re: Rolling Rock (second try) (Tim Holland)
  Offensive behavior (Bill Giffin)
  malt  specs, apology (Jim Liddil)
  RE: Silicone Tubing / Misc Qs / No Hands Electric HLT (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Joke ("David R. Burley")
  Scratched glass?? (Dan Morley)
  Help....hop tea haze!!?? (Dan Morley)
  Reconditioning Stainless Kegs (John Palmer)
  RIMS pumps (John Wilkinson)
  MixMasher observations (Alex Santic)
  More politics: Do you want to get arrested after 2 beers? (George_De_Piro)
  Beeston Marris Otter Pale Ale (Tim Martin)
  Munich Dark (Al Korzonas)




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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 15:50:30 -0500
From: Duarte George M NUWCDIVNPT <DuarteGM at code83.npt.nuwc.navy.mil>
Subject: RIMS electric element and rice hulls

Hello fellow Brewers,

I'm seeking some advise on a couple of topics
First on the choice of an Electric Rims Element.
I currently do mostly single infusions with a cooler and slotted 
copper manifold.  But I'm looking to add an electric element so
in those cases where my infusion hits a bit low, I can recirculate
and heat until my saccrification temp is reached.  
	I currently have a couple of 3000 watt 240 volt elements 
which look like they are copper and about 40 inches in total length.  
Can I use these for heating the wort?  
I have quite a bit of copper in the system already and expect the 
temperature of the element will not be much higher than the wort temp.  
Will it leach out additional copper or are these elements O.K.?
	Secondly, I'm also looking for a source for rice hulls.  I'd
like to use these for brewing an all wheat beer as well as a corn 
and quinoa beer.  I've checked all my local HB suppliers and health
food stores with no luck so far.  Any help will be appreciated.

thanks in advance

George Duarte      duarte at code83.npt.nuwc.navy.mil



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Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 16:00:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Lewis Good <winenbru at icanect.net>
Subject: pack man 

I have a culture from rogue shakesphere stout what is it? and more
important where is it from? is this the pack man yeast? I will be using it
soon! and will see if it compares to any other yeast in my collection.


- ---------------------------------------------
Lewis Good
Wine & brew By you INC.
Serving South Florida Since 1969
5760 bird road
Miami FL. 33155
ph# (305)666-5757
Fax#(305)667-4266
Email winenbru at icanect,net
web site http://www.icanect.net/winenbru/
- ---------------------------------------------




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Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 13:19:52 -0800
From: "Dana H. Edgell" <edgell at quantum-net.com>
Subject: Even Mash Temp


HBD Collective,

I've been thinking lately (always dangerous) about evening out my mash
temperature (without manual stirring). I currently can't afford a pump for
a RIMS (other brewing stuff at the front of the queue). I submit 2 ideas
for your comments.

1) Old ice cream motor/MixMasher thing. I have one of these motors but I am
not sure about the stirring blade design that would be best. An article in
BT made a big deal about a toroidal convection pattern with a complicated
blade design. couldn't you get this by a small fan pushing the mash down in
the middle. It would have to come up along the sides = toroidal pattern.

2) copper pipes. Has anyone ever tried simply inserting some thin copper
pipes into the middle of the mash? I would think the high heat conduction
of the copper would spread the heat around the mash. The only downside of
this I can see is the possibility of increased channeling along the pipes.
This could be solved by a) not sticking the pipes all the way down (kinda
ruins the point) b) removing the pipes at mashout or c) coming up with a
fancy horizontal pipe matrix.

I would appreciate any comments on the above, especially the second idea.
It is very attractive because of its simplicity.

Thanks,
Dana Edgell

- ------------------------------------------------------------------
Dana Edgell                   edgell at quantum-net.com
3101 Cowley Way #176          http://www.quantum-net.com/edge_ale
San Diego, CA 92117           (619) 276-7644




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Date: Tue, 24 Mar 98 16:58:05 est
From: paa3983 at dscp.dla.mil (Mike Spinelli)
Subject: pizza pan use

HBDers,
Ira in #2668 asked how to use the inverted pizza pan as a hop filter.
Basically, I've been using one of those aluminum 12" jobs that has
perf. holes all thru it.  6 bucks at K-mart.

My boil and sparge tanks are about 24" in diam.
I have a threaded coupling welded a couple inches from the bottom 
of the tank.  Inside the tank I have a comprssion type fitting inside
the coupling.  A 1/2" OD SS "J" tube (J because that's the way it's shaped) fits
into the compression fitting and goes to the center of
the tank.  The bend in the tube is pointed downward where it fits
into a drilled out !/2" hole in the center of the pizze pan.  

The pan works because my tank is flat on the bottom and so is the
pan when it's inverted.  I believe it would only work with leaf. hops.

If you can find a pizza pan that fits into a sanke keg, I'd bet it would 
work there too.  As long as you have a snug fit around the edges of the
pan, it should work.  

BTW, I checked K-mart for SS pans as one poster suggested, but 
didn't see any.

Mike



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Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 22:05:27 -0500
From: kbjohns at peakaccess.net
Subject: NY City Spring Regional Comp. Results

New York City Spring Regional Homebrew Competition Results
Sunday, March 22, 1998

Statistics

Total entries were 326
34 judges participated (1 Master, 5 National, 13 certified, 11
recognized 4 apprentice)
HOSI members had 128 entries (GOBSI 77 of them)
7 other clubs had members participate
Entries came from 10 states including CA TX FL MI and neighboring
states.
$1,800.00 in prizes were given in 18 categories
The competition was filmed for airing on Japanese National TV

The following business' were generous enough to support our efforts.
Please express your gratitude by purchasing their products or by
visiting their establishments.

HOMEBREW SUPPLIERS

Precision Brewing Systems, Staten Island NY 718-667-4459
U-Brew Co. Millburn NJ 973-376-0973
Hop & Vine Morristown, NJ 800-414-2739
Crosby & Baker Ltd. Westport Ma
Schmidling Productions,
Brewing Techniques Magazine,
Northwestern Extract Co.
BeerCrafters, Turnersville,
Wyeast Laboratories, Mt. Hood OR.
American Homebrewers Asscot
Uncle Zack's Beer Bread Mixes
Breiss Malting Co.

PUBS & RESTAURANTS
Maggie's Restaurant New York City
DBA's, New York City
Manchester Restaurant, New York City
Times Square Brewing, New York City
Chelsea Brewing Co, New York City
Park Slope Brewing, Brooklyn

BEER BREWERS & DISTRIBUTORS
Willowbrook Distributors, Staten Island, NY
Old World Brewing Co.
Malt Advocate
Craft Brewers, Brooklyn, NY
Brewery Ommegang, Cooperstown, NY: Tee Shirt

Best of Show, Ken Johnsen, N. German Pils
1st Runner Up, Tom Murray Cream Ale
2nd Runner Up, Jim Wagner, Smoked Scotch Ale

A complete list of entrants (entry #) and winners can be found at URL
http://www.wp.com/hosi/

Thanks to eveeryone who helped make this a very successfull competition.


Ken Johnsen


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Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 22:27:10 -0600
From: "Shawn Andrews" <sabrewer at fgi.net>
Subject: Sierra Nevada/Ringwood Yeast

   Hello all. Does anyone have a good Sierra Nevada Pale Clone? I've gotten
very close,
but can't say I've nailed it with the Perle/Cascade combo. Anyone know what
kind of malt
they use? I don't think it's American, but I could be wrong. Anyone know
for sure?
   On to the Ringwood thread. I've been using "Yeast Labs" English Ale. I
was told by
several people from this digest that this is the Ringwood strain. I believe
G. Fix said
this in A.O.B.T.
   The first time I used this yeast it formed a nasty looking head, and
formed large gnarley
looking colonies. The next time I used a different vial, but with the same
expir. date.
I brewed ESB both times. The second vial didn't flocculate very much and
reminded
me more of Wyeast 1056 Amer. Ale. The yeast on the bottom was remarkably
free
of trub, so it was used, from the primary, on a batch of W.Coast Amber.
This batch
went nuts on flocculation and top-cropping, exactly like the first vial.
The 2nd batch
carbonated very well and the yeast was tightly packed on the bottom of the
bottle.
The 1st and 3rd batches' yeast became easily disturbed about halfway
through a
12 oz. bottle. The result: VERY chunky beer.
   I was also warned of major diacetyl with this strain. I didn't
experience that at all.
Instead I have a cornucopia of fruity esters! This reminds me more of the
Whitbread
yeast than anything. I don't care for the strain "Yeast Labs" English Ale.
The main
reason I don't use Whitbread is the fruitiness overwhelms everything else.
Can someone
clarify and reiterate "YL" Eng. ale is Ringwood or Whitbread?
   Private e-mail fine      TIA, Shawn Andrews



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Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 21:15:29 -0800
From: Kyle Druey <druey at ibm.net>
Subject: Bob's RIMS Qs

HBDers, Here is another perspective on Dion's answers to Bob's RIMS
questions:

>       False bottom                    $30

If you make 5 gallon batches or smaller, you can use my EzRIMSer style
false bottom.  This is an improved version of the trademarked tubular
false bottom used in kettle mashing.  It is just a 6" length of 1/2"
soft copper tubing that is slotted and covered with a stainless mesh
sheath on the outside.  You can make this thing for about $5.  It may
work for volumes larger than 5 gallons, but I have not tried this.

>I would not use an epoxied copper heater chamber for very long, first
>because I would not trust it to not leak, and second, I don't trust
>epoxy in contact with my wort.

The epoxy I use is specifically made for copper pipe that is used in
water service.  It is nontoxic and rated for 100 psi at 200 F, probably
strong enough for mashing :).  It is so easy to use that I can't believe
I ever attempted soldering.  So far so good after 5 batches now.

>This setup also makes the assumption that you have no automatic
>temperature control, but use a switch and manually turn the heater on
>and off.  A PID temp controller and solid state relay can be added for
>under $200.

Or you can use a $20 dimmer switch which is what I would call
pseudo-automated, is this now pRIMS?  The mash can be left untouched
after adjusting the dimmer dial when the correct set temp is reached. 
The dimmer gets little press, but it is an excellent way to control the
heat output to your RIMS.
 
>Buying an $8 water heater element from the home improvement store is not
>a good substitute for spending $30 on a low density Incaloy element, it
>will scorch and leach heavy metals into your wort.

Lots of folks are using the low watt density elements that are copper
plated with tin, you know, the ones you can buy for $10 at Home Depot. 
The tin will leach into your wort, but this will not negatively impact
your beer and is non toxic in the small quatities we are dealing with. 
I know that the Gadget Guru (Ken S) uses these types of elements and 
reports no scorching problems, or haze problems from the tin.

I would visit C.D.'s home page for getting some original ideas on how to
build RIMS and other beer gadgets.  Not trying to undermine Dion but
just looking for solutions a little differently.  Dion was my pedagogue
when I built my original RIMS, he definetily is the RIMS Doctor.

Kyle Druey
Bakersfield, CA

Still waiting for Al K to post the URL for his list of corrections on
contraversial homebrewing techniques here on the HBD...


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Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 22:33:57 -0600
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at ames.net>
Subject: The Jethro Gump Report

                The Jethro Gump Report

Malt Analysis via The Web...
    I have been aware for some time, of the need for accurate and up to date
malt analysis being accessible to buyers of the same...and in previous
lives, had lobbied maltsters to set up web pages that would include the same
info that commercial brewers had access to.....
    Recent input from the HBD of downright damnable hurdles to this....(Lord
knows that it hurts to read of the prob's that the blokes in OZ have
had)........    I am now rewarded in that long overdue pursuit, as I have
been informed that within weeks, Schreier Maltings will have such a page up
and running, making it easier for both commercial and homebrewing buyers of
that malt to acquire the info they need....
    Expect to be able to access both Schreier and DWC offerings...and one
would hope, in short order, other maltsters to follow their lead......
Predicted here first, in the Jethro Gump Report......

    The fact is, that as a head brewer in the past (granted for small
brewpubs, that really didn't buy much....maybe only 50K lbs per year) in the
past, buying from multiple suppliers, I always had to 'request' an
analysis....and was often supplied with a "Typical" analysis....one that may
not accurately reflect the malt I had here in my hands.....I felt that it
was a PITA to have to call and request this info...and then wait for it to
arrive....
    Let's indeed hope that this leads to all maltsters following Schreier's
lead,,,and that homebrew shops will then provide buyers with the lot numbers
they need .....(this will probably be the biggest challenge....)

Jethro Gump

Rob Moline
Court Avenue Brewing Company,
Des Moines, Iowa.
brewer at ames.net

"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!"




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Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 23:38:29 -0800
From: Charles Hudak <cwhudak at gemini.adnc.com>
Subject: Breiss Malt



Rick writes:

>Is any one using Breiss 2 row brewers malt for Pale Ale?
>If so how do you like it?

We use Breiss exclusively in the pub--I wouldn't make that choice but it's
not mine to make. Their products are good for the most part but I have the
following qualms:

1) They use six row barley for all of their specialty malts: munich,
vienna, chocolate, black and all grades of crystal. Though they have
recently started offering two-row versions of some of these, it is not the
norm and not all malts are available in two-row.

2) They use a very high protein barley for their two-row malt. It averages
about 13+%, several points higher than the optimum specified by DeClerck of
9-11%. This contributes to haze problems and a large quantity of break
material.

That said, with the exception of a fair amount of chaff (twiggs, sticks and
such) in some of the last couple of lots that I've gotten, the malts are
OK, though not of exceptional character.

For a base 2-row malt for a pale ale or most other ales, it is an
acceptable product. They are also now making a "Pale Ale Malt" which is
more highly kilned and offers some more toasty flavors than their regular
2-row. I've tried it and I like it a little better.

C--

Charles Hudak in San Diego, California (Living large in Ocean Beach!!)
cwhudak at adnc.com
ICQ# 4253902
"If God had intended for us to drink beer, he would have given us stomachs."
- --David Daye




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Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 04:34:47 EST
From: Golgothus <Golgothus at aol.com>
Subject: Rice and Amylase Enzyme

Hello All,
		Quick Question concerning the rice thread.  I am interested in trying to
brew a sake and was wondering if anyone knows if adding Amylase Enzyme instead
of malt grains would produce the desired "magical transformation" to a
fermentable substance?  I know that true sake is brewed using "koji" but this
seemingly mythical substance is harder to find than a sober Irishman (BTW, I
am Irish by descent  8 )  ).  Would this work as an "all grain" style mash if
I added 1 to 2 tsp. before I began the mash process?  Help a newbie out ... or
point me to a place that I can find the info if you are able.  I have the
enzyme but need to know how to use it to its fullest potential.  Also, any
ideas on what type of yeast to use would be helpful if anyone has any ideas.
Many thanx.

		

Michael Whitt
Brewster and general know-it-all
Bragi's Brewery
Mobile, Al

Golgothus at aol.com
"He who lives by the skull, will die by the skull." 



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Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 04:34:59 EST
From: Golgothus <Golgothus at aol.com>
Subject: Braggot Aging and Dry Hopping

Hello All,
		I am new to the HBD and this is my first post.  I have been brewing beer and
mead for the last few years and have had some small success.  I have a general
question regarding my latest brew, an all extract Braggot.  The recipe is as
follows:

3 lb 5 oz Munton's Old Ale Kit
			Color EBC 27-33
			Bitterness EBU 45-55

3.3 lb Munton's Extra Light Malt Extract
			Color EBC Max. 7
			Bitterness EBU 0 (Unhopped)

6 lbs. Raw-Wild Pure Honey
			Deep Amber Color

1 packet Munton's Ale Yeast (included in Old Ale Kit)

		OG:  ~ 1078
		FG:   ~ 1016
Approximate alcohol is 8.5%. 
		My question is concerning the bottle conditioning of this Braggot.  How long
should this brew be aged before it is fully carbonated and mellowed enough to
enjoy?  I usually age my beers 14 days before drinking, but the Old Ale and
Braggot styles are new to me.  The kit suggests 4 weeks, and I am inclined to
agree, as this is a bitter beer that could use some aging, but if anyone with
experience in either of these styles has any info (general to the style or
specific to the aging question) it would be greatly appreciated.  
		I would also like information on dry hopping.  What flavors does this impart
to a beer and how does this effect bitterness of boiled hops?  Again, all
information is appreciated, as I am looking to improve my brewing in general
and control of "hoppiness" is one of the places that I am lacking experience.
		A final request to all Brewmeisters out there...  I am interested in all
forms of brewing, and any recipes for unusual beers/brews would be
appreciated.  I know of a few such as chicha and kvass, but all experimental
brews and alcoholic drinks fascinates me (though I am NOT brave enough to try
the "Cock Ale" recipe).  I would like to experiment with any forms of brewing
and styles that are out there, so pull out grandpa Jed's old beer recipes and
send them on to me ... thanx in advance for your help.  I plan to move up to
all grain soon, so all recipes are welcome. 

Michael Whitt
Brewster and general know-it-all
Bragi's Brewery
Mobile, Al  

Golgotus at aol.com
He who lives by the Skull will die by the Skull.


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Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 11:56:36 GMT
From: MADwand at earthling.net (MADwand)
Subject: mudbugs

some yankee recently said he had crawfish at one time and didn't like
them because of the muddy taste and he thought perhaps the pristine
waters of the lower Mississippi made them cleaner.  That is not at all
correct.  THEY LIVE IN THE MUD.

if you're gonna eat crawfish, you must clean them in a large washtub
by soaking/rinsing in clean water several times.  Some people even add
salt to the water to get them to purge themselves into the water.  I
have tasted muddy crawfish here in S. La. but it was because they
weren't rinsed properly.

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Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 20:19:35 +1000 (EST)
From: Jon Bovard <j.bovard at student.qut.edu.au>
Subject: Freezer Thermostat/Timer Question

This Q. goes out to all of those with adapted freezers. 

I recently bough a 211litre chest freezer second hand for 100 bucks. It is
of some unknown brand 
and is probably made in a country that doesnt exist any more. 

Naturally it freezes beer at the moment instead of cooling it. This makes
it hard to drink.... 

I therefore am in the process of changing this by either 
a) replacing the freezer thermostat with a fridge thermostat or 
b) putting the on/off power on a timer. 

Refridgeration mechanics I have spoken to all tell me that putting a
freezer on a thermostat from a 
fridge is "bad for" or "overloads" the compressor. Is this true? 

Does anyone know if putting it on an on/off timer with pre-set on and off
settings will be bad too? 

Any feedback much appreciated. 
Jon Bovard 
Brisbane Australia. 



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Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 06:50:41 -0500
From: oberlbk at NU.COM
Subject: HBD


In HBD #2670, somebody (unsigned) wrote:

"Does anyone use One Step cleaner/sanitizer or Oxine and can post back
results of effectiveness?"


I began using One Step sanitizer about 2 years ago.  The first
time that I used it was the first time I had a batch that went bad.
I switched back to bleach and everything was ok.  Once again I fell
for the One Step sanitizer and found that I had 3 batches in a row
go bad.  I called a different homebrew store and found that they
had discontinued selling it because of customer complaints from
bad batches.

I have since switch to FiveStar's Star San.  This stuff is great.
Two minute contact time and no rinse.  They are also very good
at answering any questions that you may have.  They have a web site,
which I do no know the address for, and it is pretty helpful.

Since I am rambling, I have a question for people using iodine as
a sanitizer.  I have read multiple times that you should rinse iodine
using boiling water.  Boiling water itself will sanitize equipment, so
what is the point of involving the iodine.

Brent Oberlin
oberlkb at nu.com




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Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 05:00:28 -0800
From: "J.Kish" <jjkish at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Malting

George De Piro,
  I saw your posting about Home Malting of barley. 
 I thought about that a year ago; asked around, did some fancy
telephoning.                I located an outfit called "Oregon Barley 
Association" and these are the big boys, You have to order many
tons of barley before they will talk to you.
 Then, I tried contacting growers. Nobody grows beverage barley
in this state, only feed barley.   So, I got a bag to try it out.
  On a scale of 1 through 10, feed barley is 2.   Low quality, it must
lack something , maybe starch, etc.   Not worth all the trouble you
have to go through to get finished malt.
I sure hope you can locate some great raw malting barley, like
Moravian, and let us know if you succeed.   Good Luck.
    Joe Kish          jjkish at worldnet.att.net


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Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 08:21:24 -0500
From: MacRae Kevin J <kmacrae at UF2269P01.PeachtreeCityGA.NCR.COM>
Subject: Carbohydrates in beer

Does anyone have an idea of the carbs in beer?  
I'm not too interested in the calories, just the carbs.  

I guess the style would matter.  
I mostly drink German Pils and English Milds and Browns 
with an occasional porter and stout.  
All grain recipes, if that would matter.

Does anyone have the breakdown, by gallons, on how to classify 
the mega all the way down to pico & lower brew houses?

Thanks for any help.
Replies to:   Kevin.MacRae at PeachtreeCityGA.NCR.COM

Kevin MacRae
Owner, operator, CEO/CIO/CFO, head brewer, and janitor of Fluffhead brewery
formerly "the porch"
and before that it was known as "all that brewing  at %$!& all over my
kitchen!"


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Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 08:03:41 -0700
From: Tim Holland <tim at mbmgsun.mtech.edu>
Subject: Re: Rolling Rock (second try)

>From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
>Subject: Re: Rolling Rock (second try)
>

>
>Your "gluttonous mess"  resulted from
>the incorrect use of rice.  It and corn need to be first mashed with some
>of the malt (about 3:1 adjunct:malt), then boiled for some time (30-75
>minutes), then added to the main mash.  

I used to do this, but found that if I used rice at 30% of the grain bill or
less, I could just add it to the grist at the beginning.  This assumes that
the rice is thoroughly gelatinized by boiling.  I use this "soup" to reach
my strike temperature and stir it thoroughly.

Do you add crystal malt to your grist?  I found that it helps with the malt
nose, but not so much with body.  I don't like the flavors it imparts to
pilsners.  Then again, all of the "store bought" American beer I've tried
has very little body or flavor. :-)

==========================
Tim Holland
Tim at mbmgsun.mtech.edu
Butte, Montana
==========================



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Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 10:21:08 -0500
From: Bill Giffin <billg at ctel.net>
Subject: Offensive behavior

Gentlemen,

Included in the list of winners in the 1998 Boston Homebrew Competition was
the following:
	"3) Thomas J O'Connor III MD and Satan, Rockport ME (MALT), Export 80"

Tom O'Connor didn't include the "and Satan" on his forms and was greatly
hurt by the offensive behavior of the Boston Wort Processors and the Boston
Homebrew Competition.

Tom, who has won the New England Homebrewer of the Year for the past three
years, was the only one of the winners to be singled out with an offensive
addition to their name as a winner.

Tom has had a number of the members of the Wort Processors in his home as
his guests  when they have come to Maine to judge.  Tom's only offense as I
see it is that the Boston Wort Processors couldn't beat him for Homebrewer
of the Year.  Tom has contributed by judging at as many  competitions as
his busy schedule allows.

I feel that the Boston Homebrew Competition and the Boston Wort Processors
should publicly apologize to Tom O'Connor as well as in writing.  I also
feel that the condemnation of the B.J.C.P. the AHA and the homebrewing
community should fall upon the Boston Wort Processors.

Bill Giffin
Past-President 
Maine Ale and Lager Tasters (M.A..LT)
Richmond, Maine




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Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 08:44:09 +0000
From: Jim Liddil <jliddil at azcc.arizona.edu>
Subject: malt  specs, apology

I misspoke when I said the spec sheet was largley blank for the st pats
czech malt.  The spec sheet I orignally got did not have much of the bottom
half information the one on their web site has.  My mistake.  I still
wonder what the DP is though.  Also I have had nothing but good results in
limited testing of this malt.  And as always St Pat's service is prompt and
courteous.

WRT to sour guiness I suggest folks look at the table in the middle of
Stout by Lewis and look at the lactic acid levels.  I don't have th book
here, but recall the level is pretty high for a couple of beers.

As far as brett in guiness, all I can say is that a number of seminal
papers on bretttanomyces have been published by the folks at St James.  I
have a number of historically interesting papers on this subject and the
effects of aging in wood.  

Jim


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Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 10:06:46 -0600
From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: RE: Silicone Tubing / Misc Qs / No Hands Electric HLT

>The water level inside the 6.5 gallon bucket is easily seen from
>the outside, thus obviating the need for a sight gauge.  The no hands
>electric HLT is a piece of equipment that is easy to make, fairly
>inexpensive, and highly recommended.  Extract, partial grain, or hot
>water infusion all grainers could use this piece of equipment.  This
>would be a good "rookie" project to complete before making your RIMS so
>as to minimize those RIMS lessons learned.  

Better yet,  if you can get a hold of a 15 gallon blue plastic drum (the
kind liquid malt extract comes in),  it is factory marked on the outside
for gallons and nicely subdivided with markings.

Ron

Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu



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Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 11:06:13 -0500
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Joke

Connie,

>  USA, Palo Alto, CA (AP) -- "Yesterday scientists revealed that beer
>  contains small traces of female hormones.  To prove their theory,
>  the scientists fed 100 men 12 pints of beer and observed that 100% of
>  them gained weight, talked excessively without making sense, became
>  emotional, and couldn't drive.  No further testing is planned."

Just a note from the Home Brewers Digest - last bastion of Masculinity 
that
the liberals have trouble shutting off.  {8^)

Dave

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Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 09:08:59 -0700
From: Dan Morley <morleyd at cadvision.com>
Subject: Scratched glass??

Last fall I decided that I would switch from plastic to glass primaries.  I
am using 6 gal. Carboys as my primary fermentors with a blow off system.
This is working fine except that I have found that it is much more difficult
to clean a carboy than a plastic pale. Usually I fill the carboy with a weak
bleach solution and let this sit until all the crude comes off the glass.
The last batch I did had way more crude than usual and the regular soak was
not working. I decided to use my bottle brush to loosen the rest of it. The
only bottle brush that I have has a short handle and I could not reach all
the crude. SO....I thought no problem...and I attached the bottle brush to
my long plastic spoon using wire. WELL....after I had cleaned all the crude
from inside the carboy, I noticed that there was small but visible scratches
all around the inside of the carboy......ARGG....the scratches seem to have
come from the ends of the wire that I used to attach the bottle brush. I
never imagined that glass would scratch so easily.

I would assume that this carboy is unsafe to use although I would like to
hear some opinions from some of you.  Also, what methods of cleaning do
people use for cleaning major crude from glass primary fermentors?? Since
this happened, I have purchased a long handled bottle brush to prevent this
from happening again.

Thanks

Dan Morley
Calgary, AB. Canada



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Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 09:10:21 -0700
From: Dan Morley <morleyd at cadvision.com>
Subject: Help....hop tea haze!!??

arrggg....I put a haze in my beer!!!

I just recently bottled an APA and I wanted to add some more hop aroma.  I
made up my usual water & corn sugar solution for  priming and I boiled this
for 15 minutes. I then let this cool to about 160 deg. and added 1/2 ounce
of fresh cascade leaf hops. I let this steep for 20 minutes, strained it
through a sanitized strainer into my bottle bucket and bottled as usual. 

This beer was very clear before bottling but after doing this there is a
slight haze in it now (at room temp).  This beer has been bottled 10 days
now and there is no sign of the haze dropping!! Has anyone ever used this
method and has this ever happend to you!! The beer does have a very nice hop
aroma but I find the haze anoying.


Thanks

Dan Morley
Calgary, AB. Canada



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Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 09:03:54 -0800
From: John Palmer <jjpalmer at gte.net>
Subject: Reconditioning Stainless Kegs

Steven Jones asks how to remove some rust from a weld in a Sankey keg
and "season" for re-service.

Easy.  Thoroughly scour the rust away using an oxalic acid based
cleanser such as Kleen King, Revereware or Bar Keepers Friend using a
green scrubby (ie. Scotchbrite). Do NOT use steel wool, it will only
cause more rust.  Once you have the rust cleaned away, rinse the area
thoroughly with fresh water and dry it with a paper towel or something.
Then let it sit for a week or two.  It will repassivate itself and you
will be good to go.
John

jjpalmer at gte.net



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Date: Wed, 25 Mar 98 11:03:16 CST
From: jwilkins at wss.dsccc.com (John Wilkinson)
Subject: RIMS pumps

Surplus Center has a Little Giant magnetic drive pump with bronze pump body
and Ryton impellers rated at 3 GPM and max liquid temp. of 212F.  Their price
is US$99.95.  This sounds like an appropriate pump for a RIMS application and
about the price I have heard mentioned for such a pump.  Is this a good one
at this price or is there something better available elsewhere?

Thanks,

John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkins at wss.dsccc.com


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Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 12:24:35 -0500
From: Alex Santic <alex at brainlink.com>
Subject: MixMasher observations

As an urban entrepreneur and apartment-dweller, I've found kettle mashing 
to be an ideal all-grain technique. With two closets already sacrificed to 
equipment and ingredients, and two fermentation fridges in my entrance 
area, kettle mashing cuts down on equipment space and maximizes the 
usefulness of my facilities.

Jack Schmidling's MixMasher seemed to be an ideal enhancement to my system, 
although limited time and facilities made it unfeasible to build it myself. 
Hence my gratitude to Ken Schwartz, whose love of brewing and gadgets 
induced him to build this device for me at a price that was very obviously 
not much above his costs. Ken's attention to detail resulted in a mixer 
that is well-made and virtually identical in spec to the posted MixMasher 
design.

Combined with the same 10 gal Polarware kettle that Jack uses, I tested the 
mixer under conditions which I thought would be very similar to his. My 
initial conclusion is that the mixer probably works perfectly in the con  
text of Jack's brewing system, in which he mashes 15 lbs. of grain using 
one slow and continuous temperature boost from mash-in to mash-out. 
However, brewers who do not wish to adopt exactly the same technique might 
need to make a more adjustable mixer, or one customized to perform 
according to their needs and expectations.

MIXING EFFICIENCY
My initial batch used 9.5 lbs of grain and 3.5 gals water. This fills a 10 
gal Polarware kettle considerably less than half full. With no formal 
knowledge of fluid dynamics, my guess is that a larger mash would have 
mixed more efficiently. With the fan blades not immersed deeply enough 
under the surface of the mash, I observed the mash welling up around the 
sides to some extent, combined with a less-than-ideal swirling motion which 
concentrated heat at the top and center. Continuing to use the mixer would 
have me leaning towards no-sparge brewing to increase the volume of the 
mash, and hopefully the mixing efficiency.

BREWING TECHNIQUE
I would have had no problem using the mixer with British pale ale malt, 
since in such cases I use a single temperature mash and would have needed 
the mixer simply for temperature adjustments and mash-out. However, my 
initial attempt involved malt with which I intended to use a brief protein 
rest by mashing-in at 122 F and starting to raise the temperature 
immediately. Unfortunately, I was only able to achieve a rate of .45 
degrees/minute temperature increase without fear of damaging the mash. This 
resulted in a much longer time in the active proteinase range than I 
intended, not to mention some uncertainty over the fermentability of the 
wort I created.

CONCLUSIONS
With better mixing efficiency, I might have been able to raise the 
temperature faster, but I don't know how much faster. While Jack's long, 
slow temperature boost apparently works for him, I am hestitant to adopt 
this rather unconventional technique, as I perceive it to negate the 
control and predictability I felt I had before. With manual mixing, I was 
able to devise a stirring technique that would allow me to boost 
temperatures much more quickly without scorching or whipping up a froth.

Further experiments will test the mixer with a larger mash volume and it 
will be interesting to see what this does for the mixing efficiency. Will 
report back with any interesting results.

- --
A l e x   S a n t i c     Silicon Alley Brewery     New York City



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Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 13:23:25 -0800
From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com
Subject: More politics: Do you want to get arrested after 2 beers?

     Hi all,
     
     I'm forwarding this letter I got from the institute for brewing 
     studies.
     Sorry about it's length.  It is more relevant than the crayfish 
     thread.
     
     Have fun!
     
     George De Piro  (Nyack, NY)
     ********************************************
     Institute for Brewing Studies BREWERS ALERT
     
     CALL YOUR REPRESENTATIVES!
     
     STOP NEW LAUTENBERG
     NATIONAL .08 PERCENT BAC MANDATE
     
     We expect an amendment to be offered March 30-April 1 in the House to 
     force states to adopt a .08 percent BAC standard or lose a portion of 
     their federal highway funds.  The Lautenberg .08 amendment will occur 
     during debate on the federal highway bill.
     
     The Lautenberg amendment will criminalize a 120-pound woman who 
     consumes two glasses of wine within a two-hour period.  It will do 
     nothing to address the problem of the hard-core, high-BAC drunk 
     Driver.
     
     We need you to call or fax your Senators to ask them to oppose the 
     Lautenberg amendment.
     
     Please call or e-mail Scott Voss at (303) 447-0816 [scottv at aob.org] to 
     let us know what response you receive.
     
     Talking Points Against Lautenberg Amendment
     
     The amendment will criminalize a 120-pound woman who consumes two 
     glasses of wine over two hours.  According to the National Highway 
     Traffic Safety Administration software, a 120-pound woman who consumes 
     two standard restaurant servings of wine over two hours would register 
     .08 percent BAC.  Is this the person who should be locked up to 
     further the fight against drunk driving?
     
     The federal stick is the wrong approach.  The days are gone when 
     congress can dictate a "Made in Washington" solution and punish states 
     that do not comply.
     
     No reputable study shows that .08 laws save lives.  The Hingson (1995) 
     study, which is usually cited by proponents as proof of the 
     effectiveness of .08 laws, falls apart when different comparison states 
     are used.
     
     A national .08 standard misses the target.  The hard-core, high-BAC 
     drunk driver ought to be the target of additional efforts.  The vast 
     majority of drunk driving fatalities are caused by drivers with BACs 
     far over the current .10 percent limit in place in 35 states.  The 
     average BAC among fatally injured drinking drivers is .18 percent, 
     almost twice the legal limit in 35 states.
     ***********************
     Back to George:
     
     I edited out a lot of info; contact Scott Voss at the above 
     number/address for more info.
     
     If you ignore this now, you'll pay for it later.  MADD and the other 
     neo-prohibitionists won't stop at 0.08.  Zero tolerance is their goal!


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Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 14:22:24 -0500
From: Tim Martin <TimMartin at southwest.cc.nc.us>
Subject: Beeston Marris Otter Pale Ale

Hey Neighbors,

It finally soaked in on my small acrospire of a brain from the recent
discussion of Marris Otter that it is a species and various malting
companies handle this malt. This prompted me to look in my mail order
catalog to find out more about the Marris Otter that I have used and
discovered the malting company is Beeston.

The description reads "Beeston is a small malting company that continues
its traditional floor malting practice that they believe produces a superior
malted barley and specialty malts from England. Color is 2.1 degrees
lovibond, diastatic power is 149 degrees lintner and total protein is
9.18%. Extract is 81%."

Are many of you familiar with Beeston? Is Beeston a completely
separate  company from M & F malting. I would be interested in any
comments since I will be placing an order soon.

Thanks,
Tim Martin
Cullowhee, NC


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Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 13:38:32 -0600 (CST)
From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com>
Subject: Munich Dark

Kyle writes:
>Anyone have a kilning schedule for making Munich Dark at home?

Before you get excited, remember that you *must* begin with wet, green,
*unkilned* malt to make Munich malt.  Again, see my article on it
in the Library on The Brewery website.

Al.


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