HOMEBREW Digest #2675 Tue 31 March 1998

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Acid malt / DMS and diacetyl ("George De Piro")
  offensive behavior ("Michael E. Dingas")
  Yeast with Enzyme ("Richard Lehrl")
  Kolsch article in BT (Mike Allred)
  Re: anybody know this company (michael rose)
  Wine and Brew By You, INC. (Al Korzonas)
  "Fruit Extract Haze" or Awakening Yeast? ("Charles L. Ehlers")
  refracto (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at akzonobel.com>
  Heating-RIMS (Fredrik Hjalmarson)
  Still more .08 (Steve Jackson)
  Water Analysis in my new home - Calling all Water Experts ("Reed,Randy")
  Open Ferment (John Varady)
  .08 vs .10 (Wayne_Kozun)
  Rodenbach Grand Cru (Malty Dog)
  info on caustic cleaners ("MICHAEL L. TEED")
  Re: Baker's Yeast (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Legislating morality... (brian_dixon)
  Bottling is Hell (or at least Purgatory) (Bill Goodman)
  Re: Reverse RIMS. (Dion Hollenbeck)
  That 'scummy' Idophor... (brian_dixon)
  Re: Grand Cru (Jim Larsen)
  Sulfur problem from Munton's malts? (Paul Shick)
  Me and My lame stout. ("SchoenBacher, Anton")
  club yeast libraries (Daniel S McConnell)
  Chill haze and protein rests (yet again) (George_De_Piro)
  "acid malt" (David Kerr)
  0.08 BAC (James Tomlinson)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 29 Mar 98 09:41:58 PST From: "George De Piro" <gdepiro at NOSPAMfcc.net> Subject: Acid malt / DMS and diacetyl Hi all, Nathan asks about using (what I think) is Weissheimer acid malt (sauer malz) to add comlexity to his beer. Sour malt is used in Germany to lower the pH of the mash in highly carbonate water. It is simply malt that has been biologically acidified. It can most certainly change the character of your beer in a noticable way; BE CAREFUL! I have evaluated (in competition setting) an Oktoberfest beer that had a distinctly sour note. I found it to be a bit much (even thought the beer might have been infected). Afterwards, I spoke with the brewer and found out that he was experimenting with sour malt. When tasting his beer in a less formal setting, I thought it was very nice. When concentrating on it, though, it was too sour. Experiment with small amounts at first (I have never used it and can't remember how much my friend used), and go from there. Heck, it would make the most sense to use it to help achieve the proper mash pH when brewing pale beers in carbonate water. - ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jim asks about the high DMS (dimethyl sulfide) level in his recent Koelsch. He talks about doing a warm rest at the end of fermentation to reduce it. Jim is confusing DMS with diacetyl. DMS is produced during the boil, not during fermentation. While some of it might get scrubbed out during fermentation by the CO2, it won't get consumed by the yeast. DMS is formed by SMM, which is found in high quantities in Pilsner malt. The high kilning temperature of other malts tends to form DMS and drive it off, so that there is less chance of ending up with it in the final product. Excessive DMS in your beer is usually a result of too gentle and/or too short a boil. Keeping the lid on the kettle will also increase DMS. When using pale ale malt, you may be able to get away with a bit more than when using Pilsner malt. An inadequate boil with Pilsner malt (or inadequate ventilation during the boil) will lead to high DMS levels. I don't think you can fix it at this stage, sorry. Try to Have Fun! George De Piro (Nyack, NY) Remove NOSPAM from address to reply Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 09:52:08 -0500 From: "Michael E. Dingas" <dingasm at worldnet.att.net> Subject: offensive behavior How the rest of us find such behavior is not the issue. However, there is nothing to be gained in expanding the sphere of embarassment simply to express our distaste for a particular offense. The original post which felt an apology was in order was my first insight into any 'wrong-doing.' In all honesty, I never should have become aware of it in the first place, especially from one who was not the 'wronged' party. Point: Limit your outrage to the scope in which the offense took place. Mike (Middle GA, USA) Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 19:12:10 +0200 From: "Richard Lehrl" <r.lehrl at xpoint.at> Subject: Yeast with Enzyme Hello, I bought some SB14 dried Lager Yeast which comes in a twin pack. There are two bags one the yeast, the second "Pilsner Enzyme" with the instructions: "Add with yeast". I wonder which kind of enzymes this might be and what they are good for? Richard r.lehrl at xpoint.at Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 11:16:44 -0700 From: Mike Allred <mballred at xmission.com> Subject: Kolsch article in BT I wouldn't have opened by big mouth, but then I read this in ref to the Kolsch article in jan/feb BT: >>The excellent BT issue came too late for me to use a blend of RO water as per my >>lagers. Now, I am not one of the experts like so many others here, but this article was lacking in my opinion. I wanted to learn about real Kolsch beer and how it is produced. What we got was an article on how to make an ale with pilsner malt, german or american hops, single step infusion mashing, and the recomended yeast was 1056 or 1098. Color does not define a beer style. Next month Forrest will be doing an article on how an Imperial stout can be duplicated in a Mr. Beer with bakers yeast and beet sugar. OTOH, the article on decoction by Spencer Thomas was EXCELLENT as was the RIMMS/Decoction brew off by Louis and Andy Thomas. This is why I read BT. Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 12:00:57 -0800 From: michael rose <mrose at ucr.campus.mci.net> Subject: Re: anybody know this company Lars Bjornstad wrote, > know low density elements are the ones to use, but on > PlumbingSupply/warehouse/world.com (does anyone know this company??) I Three weeks ago I bought six 1/2" SS couplings for my 3-tier system. I recieved them about six days latter. The package had been torn open in shipment and some of the fittings had been lost. I e-mailed back (they don't have any phone contact with customers, only e-mail)with my complaint and in about 4 days I recieved the lost parts. I am happy with their service and will use them in the future. Michael Rose Riverside, CA mrose at ucr.campus.mci.net Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 18:34:16 -0600 (CST) From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> Subject: Wine and Brew By You, INC. In private email, I have learned that Wine and Brew By You, INC. is under new (thankfully!) manangement. The "Serving South Florida Since 1969" is what led me to believe that the same people were at the helm. Sorry about that. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 20:26:16 -0600 From: "Charles L. Ehlers" <clehlers at flinthills.com> Subject: "Fruit Extract Haze" or Awakening Yeast? Just bottled a lagered wheat and encountered something I haven't seen before. However, did two things I've never done before. Would appreciate any wisdom from the collective. Lagered an extract wheat. Cleared beautifully. To prime, used a technique I learned from Rob Moline in his Little Apple Brew Crew (not to be confused w/ LAB Company) days and have seen recently discussed here. Added priming sugar solution straight to the secondary and bottled from the secondary. Hadn't done this before (even though heard about it from Rob over a year ago!). Anyway, secondary was cold, about 40F when I added the warm priming solution. Let it sit about 30 minutes. Filled 24 bottles. After filling but before capping, added 2.5 oz. raspberry extract to the remaining 2.5 ~ 3 gallons in the (primed) secondary. Capped the first 24 bottles, then bottled the remainder from the carboy. The first 24 bottles were very clear. The remaining bottles (after adding the raspberry extract to the carboy) were slightly hazy. First noticed the haze not in the bottles, but in the carboy. The beer had been very clear. But after I capped the first batch of bottles, I noticed a cloudiness/haze developing from the bottom of the carboy. I first noticed it about 10 minutes after adding the raspberry extract. It could have been developing all along as I hadn't been paying much attention to the beer in the carboy and it was more chance than anything else that caused me to notice it when I did. Is this haze something that developed as a result of adding the raspberry extract? Or, was it yeast rousing from the bottom of the carboy in response to the introduction of the priming sugar? Appreciate any/all suggestions/comments. Cheers! Charles Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 08:04:19 +0200 From: "Aikema, J.N. (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at akzonobel.com> Subject: refracto Hello brewers, I have a refractometer and use it for measuring during sparging and the final wort. Would it also be possible to use it during and after fermentation? I'm a subscriber of HBD for a few month now. I'm getting acquainted with abbreviations as KISS, TIA, IMO, IMHO. I don't know yet what <SNIP> means. IMHO Briess Malting is the correct name. Why are so many people writing Breiss (HBD # 2653, 2665, 2666, 2670, 2671 (thanking the Company for sponsoring!). I don't have access to Internet (only E-mail). Greetings from Holland, TIA, Hans Aikema Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 16:09:42 +0800 From: Fredrik Hjalmarson <fredrik at atri.curtin.edu.au> Subject: Heating-RIMS Hi all, I'm planning to build a RIMS and have some questions about the heating method. Most RIMS I've seen on the web use the boil vessel to heat the dough-in water and/or a separate heater (gas or electric) to heat the sparge water in the HLT. Now, If I use a RIMS with a heater chamber with a 2500W low watt density element. Shouldn't it be possible to heat all dough-in water and sparge water with that element? My idea is to fill up the amount of spage water needed in the HLT and the amount of dough-in water in the mash-tun. Then 1) Recirculate the sparge water up to sparge temperature 2) Recirculate the dough-in water up to dough-in temperature 3) Add grain and start mashing. Is there any problems to use full power (2500W) when heating the water? Suppose I don't need to worry about scorching of the water... Then during sparging, if the sparge water goes through the heater chamber on the way to the mash tun, it should be possible to heat the water on the fly. If the waterflow from the HLT to the mashtun during sparging is around 0.1gal/min (0.38l/min), how much is it possible to raise the temperature with the 2500W element? This means that you don't need to heat the water in the HLT up to sparge temperature as said in 2) above. I know many of you out there uses a 4500W/240W element in a 120V system wich gives 1125W. How much can you raise the temp of the water (or wort) flowing through the chamber? You may ask, Why don't you heat the sparge water in the boil vessel while you heat the dough-in water in the mash tun? That's because if I have a 10A limit that gives me 2400W in a 240V system. So, I can't use both heaters at the same time...By the way, is 2400W (wort boiler) enough to boil a 6.5 gal (24.6l) batch? Thanks in advance, Fredrik Hjalmarson Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 05:38:04 -0800 (PST) From: Steve Jackson <stevejackson at rocketmail.com> Subject: Still more .08 Sorry to keep dredging this up, but there a couple points that haven't been mentioned that I think are relevant. As much as I dislike the idea of imposing a .08 BAC standard on every state, I have my doubts as to how much it will affect most social drinkers. In most states, you cannot be stopped unless you are showing some signs of impairment. This means you have to be weaving, speeding, crossing the center line, etc. In other words, you have to be doing something wrong in order to get pulled over. If you can drive at .08 without any impairment, then you almost certainly don't have anything to worry about. (It varies from state to state, but random checks have frequently been ruled unconstitutional.) Secondly, in most states, you *can* be arrested for drunk driving with blood alcohol levels *below* .10 already. Here in Indiana, you can be arrested if you're at .05 and showing signs of impairment. The charge is somewhat different than if you blow .10 or above, but the net result is roughly the same (big fines, ridiculously high insurance premiums, etc.). Of course, the second point proves how silly this .08 move is. You can already be arrested, charged and convicted if you're driving while impaired, regardless of whether you're at .08, .10 or .50 (back when I was a reporter and did the cop beat, I actually someone arrested for DWI at .50 -- a level that would leave most of us comatose if not dead). My point is not that we shouldn't be concerned about this effort to lower the legal BAC -- whether it's at the federal level or if one's individual state is trying to do so. I agree that this is part of a neo-prohibitionist effort to make it illegal to ever set foot out of the house/pub/whatever if one's had a drop to drink. However, I don't think this is cause for panic at this point. If this move is successful (which it almost certainly will be), I really don't see it affecting many of us one way or another. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 08:46:26 -0500 From: "Reed,Randy" <rreed at foxboro.com> Subject: Water Analysis in my new home - Calling all Water Experts A few weeks ago I posted my water analysis from my new home. It is a 20 year old house and well in Rehoboth, MA, where I am moving. The first analysis was the result of water that had gone through a softener. I had the test run again, this time bypassing the softener. Can you recommend how I can brew with this water? If I did not want to purchase bottled water for each of my batches, what should I do to treat my water? Or, is it too high in Iron to use? The first number represents the softened water and the second un-softened water, direct from the well. All are Mg/L PARAMETER WITH softener WITHOUT softener (direct from well) Sodium 105.0 10.9 Potassium .35 1.0 Copper ND .02 Iron .08 3.29 ** Manganese ND 1.22 ** Magnesium .03 5.7 Calcium .25 33.9 PH 6.50 6.5 Conductivity 596 343.0 TDS 357.6 205.8 Sediment Negative Positive * Alkalinity 55 42.5 Chloride 130 ND Hardness .77 108.1 Nitrate .30 ND Sulfate 13.2 14.7 So, we can see that the softener really raises the levels of sodium and chloride and reduces the levels of iron. If I used the softened water, it might make a salty tasting beer. Can any of you water chemists and/or filtration experts recommend how you would treat this water for brewing if you did not want to buy bottled water? Thanks in advance. Randy Reed Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 09:26:46 -0800 From: John Varady <rust1d at usa.net> Subject: Open Ferment YYZCLAYTON at aol.com (Rush Reference?) Asks: >1. What type of container do you use (SS, plastic, glass, other) and how big? Do you have any type of drain valve? I use a sanke keg with the top chopped and a drain on the bottom. It also serves as my hot liquor tank. >2. Is there any special care needed for the fermenter? Cleaning, sanitizing etc.? I don't do any special cleaning. After use, I scrub it with a green scotch brite pad to remove krausen residue. It then gets rinsed and filled with sparge water for the current brew being mashed. After the sparge water has been heated and drained I consider it pretty clean and sanitized. For good measure, I put it on the burner and turn on the heat for a couple of minutes to get it really hot. I then dump in a cup of water and put the lid on it and let it steam away and then drain the remaining water out of the valve at the bottom. I consider this clean and ready to ferment in. >3. The Kraeusen head is supposed to provide a protective layer but does anyone cover the fermenter? If so, with what, when, and for how long? I use a lid to cover the opening in the top and then place a close fitting trash bag over the entire keg to keep interested critters out. If the bag doesn't fit close enough, I will secure it with a rubber band. The trash bag will inflate like a hot air balloon as the ferment gets kicking. >4. Where do you ferment? I guess I mean how clean of an area does one need to be successful? With my method of covering with a trash bag, the area doesn't have to be too clean. I open ferment in my basement, which is by no means sanitary. >5. Do you skim the dirty head? If so, when and how often? I will skim the dirty head on either the 3rd or 4th day into the ferment and discard. I use a kitchen fryer spatula to skim the head. I put this over the burner on my kitchen stove to sanitize and use it while it is still hot. It will sizzle when first dunked into the brew but it makes me feel good to know nothing is growing on it. >6. Do you crop the yeast? If so when and how often? How do you store the yeast? After skimming and discarding the dirty krausen, I will replace the trash bag on the keg. When it has once again inflated, I put a coin on top of the bag. When the ferment begins to die off, it will no longer be outgassing enough to hold the weight of the coin, and the trash bag will begin to collapse. This indicates to me that it is time to skim the yeast again and rack to closed fermenters to clear and condition. The skimmed yeast gets put into a quart jar using a sanitized funnel and saved until needed again. >7. Are there any yeast strains that seem to be better suited to open fermentation? Which ones? I have used 1084, 1056, 1007 and my current house yeast an unnumbered ESB strain (from Wyeast not avail to homebrewers yet, I get it from the Red Bell Brewery in Phila). These all seem to be great top croppers. >8. Do you rack the beer to a secondary? If so, when? See Q-6. I have taken some pictures of an open ferment and when time permits, I will scan them and put up a page detailing my methods. The picture of the sanke keg with an inflated trash bag on top looks cool. Hope this helps someone... John John Varady http://www.netaxs.com/~vectorsys/varady Boneyard Brewing The HomeBrew Recipe Calculating Program Glenside, PA rust1d at usa.net Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 09:48:04 -0500 From: Wayne_Kozun at otpp.com Subject: .08 vs .10 Will everybody just shut up about the new drunk driving law and get back to talking about brewing. This is not the "Pissed Off About Proposed American Legislation Digest" it is the "Homebrewing Digest". Many of the participants here are from the UK, Australia, Canada and elsewhere and we just don't give a damn. And to John Wilkinson who dissed Canadians saying: I could have gone on about how the people Canada are sheep willing to accept an oppressive government, but this is a brewing forum, not a political one. So I won't. We Canadians are willing to accept reasonable laws that increase public safety. That is why it is rare to hear about Canadian children shooting each other. That is also why the United Nations consistently picks Canada as the best place to live in the world. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 10:15:18 EST From: Malty Dog <MaltyDog at aol.com> Subject: Rodenbach Grand Cru <In HBD 2672 Ted Manahan writes: <Rodenbach Grand Cru. For those of you who haven't tried this classic,> <it's surprisingly sour and aromatic. It can be startling if the drinker> <isn't ready for it.> In HBD 2674, Michael Witt (Golgothus) replies: <Hey Ted, < As far as I can see, Grand Cru is a specialty Belgian White ... though your <comment on entering it in the Belgian Strong Dark makes me wonder if my <information is correct. I have it listed as color: 2-4 SRM's. I don't really <know much about this style of beer, but that's the info I have on hand at this <time. If I am wrong, I hope someone will take the time to correct me. Here's the correction. The Belgian term "Grand Cru" is a little misleading. It's kind of the Belgian equivalent of "Super Premium." It isn't really a style name at all; it basically means the best or strongest product of the brewery. I'm sure Michael was thinking of Celis Grand Cru or Hoegarden Grand Cru, which are, indeed strong White ales. However, as some others may post to this list quick enough, Rodenbach Grand Cru is an entirely different style, the Flanders Red, which is usually combined with Oud Bruin in competition style guidelines. The BJCP style number/letter is 18-A; the AHA style number/letter is 2-A. I hope this helps. Bill Coleman MaltyDog at aol.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 08:46:54 -0600 From: "MICHAEL L. TEED" <MS08653 at msbg.med.ge.com> Subject: info on caustic cleaners .int homebrew at hbd.org Greetings to all, A month or so back I had asked for help in using lye for occasional cleaning of my rims system, but unfortunately recieved no replies. I searched the archives and found no answers to my questions, and havent found any reference type materials on using caustics. Is there something out there I can read up on? I know the obvious, use gloves and goggles, keep something handy to neutralize any mistakes, but any help on what ph to adjust for or concentrations to use, usage times and such would be appreciated. Private mail is fine. TIA. Mike Teed, ms08653 at msbg.med.ge.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 10:57:44 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: Baker's Yeast Charles Hudak cwhudak at adnc.com writes: >Hmmm, I don't think that bakers yeast can use the carbs in flour. In every >loaf of bread that I've ever made the recipe calls for sugar (usually 1 >Tbsp) which is the food for the yeast. It's just because someone thought you ought to put the sugar in, and the error is repeated by most recipe writers. It isn't necessary if there is some diastase in the flour. I make many tons of bread per year without a bit of sugar, and the dough cool ferments quite happily for 18 hours, and then rises in loaves (proofs). If it ferments too long, however, it won't proof well, due to a diminution of gas production (available carbohydrates have ben depleted) and degradation of the gas-trapping gluten (protein) by proteolytic yeast enzymes. As I posted the other day, historically, flour had some diastase from wheat that had sprouted in the field and/or from poor storage. This level would be greatly variable. Modern baking flours have the diastase adjusted to a standard amount by the addition of malted barley flour, nominally 0.1%. This diastase acts on starch granules that have been damaged by the milling process. That is why "*available* carbohydrates can be consumed. Since approximately 80%+ of wheat flour is carbohydrates, there is lots more there, it's just unavailable as it is bound up in starch granules. Jeff Owner, baker, R & D, pan scrubber, saleman, delivery boy and this week, tax preparer (ugh!) "Best French Bread in Town" Ann Arbor, MI Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 98 08:04:00 -0800 From: brian_dixon at om.cv.hp.com Subject: Re: Legislating morality... >Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your legislator... > >In perusing Friday, 20 Mar 1998 Detroit News, buried in a small >column >article in Sec 5A, I believe, I got my dander up: > >Well, they're at it again. Rep. Juanita Millender-McDonald >(California) >has sponsored a bill to heavily penalize UPS (or any other carrier) >should >alcohol delivered by them end up in the hands of a juvenile. In >affect, >she says there is already a law precluding the consumption of alcohol >by >minors. This law is just to "...make sure..." (Full text of the >article at >http://detnews.com/1998/nation/9803/20/03200146.htm). For those who are concerned, I looked up Jauniat Millender-McDonald's email address so YOU can send her email concerning your opposition. These things work best if you state your opposition in the first sentence, and keep your justification short and sweet, e.g. a 2 or 3 item bulleted list that's easy to read. Anyway, here's the email address: millender.mcdonald at mail.house.gov Have fun, Brian Dixon Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 16:12:49 +0000 From: Bill Goodman <goodman at APWK01G1.nws.noaa.gov> Subject: Bottling is Hell (or at least Purgatory) I'm convinced that bottling homebrew is one way to atone for sins committed in this life! While transferring my steam beer from the secondary to a bottling bucket Saturday night, the siphon became stuck due to dissolved CO2 coming out of solution and creating a big air bubble (I assume)...lost a good quart of beer in the process. If that weren't bad enough, while trying to fix the situation, the hand pump from my BrewPump siphon starter gadget fell into the beer in the bottling bucket! Hope that didn't contaminate the batch, and yes, I'll get a cover for the bucket, but only time will tell. Also, since I cold-conditioned the beer for 10 days at 40F, I wonder if the beer still has enough suspended yeast to make for good carbonation? (After 1 day, I noticed practically none of the usual sediment at the bottom of the bottles, making me wonder about that even more.) As far as the flavor...excellent! Like hoppy liquid bread, with excellent Cascade hop aroma too. Will be the best batch I've brewed so far in 3 attempts, if it survives all the above troubles. BTW, is fresh Anchor Steam really this hoppy? - -- Bill Goodman Olney, MD Return to table of contents
Date: 30 Mar 1998 08:15:41 -0800 From: Dion Hollenbeck <hollen at vigra.com> Subject: Re: Reverse RIMS. >> S Wesley writes: SW> From time to time I read the postings about RIMS systems and SW> wonder if anyone has ever tried running a RIMS system backwards. SW> I believe one of the potential hazards of this type of system is SW> excessive compaction of the grain bed. Flow rate, and the rate of SW> temperature change as well as overall system size may be limited SW> because of this. Some sort of intake mainifold could be placed at SW> the surface of the mash, and fluid could be returned to the mash SW> tun drain. A more powerful pump might be needed to make the whole SW> thing work. I'd be curious to know if anyone has tried this and SW> if so, how it worked. I have not tried this, but see several problems associated with it. First, one advantage of a RIMS is that the grain bed acts as a filter bed as well. If you pump liquid up from the bottom, the filter will never be established, and you will get cloudy wort. Secondly, there will be no return manifold that you can make at the top of the grain bed that will work well. The small parts of the grist will always be in suspension. If you have a manifold that lets these through, then you may get clogs in the pump and/or hoses. If you have some sort of fine enough screen on the manifold to filter out the grain, then you will have flow problems. The reason that the grain bed works so well as a filter is that it has a huge area, for my system, this is 113 square inches, the area of the false bottom. dion - -- Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164 Email: hollen at vigra.com http://www.vigra.com/~hollen Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs San Diego, California Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 98 08:28:50 -0800 From: brian_dixon at om.cv.hp.com Subject: That 'scummy' Idophor... I notice, a harmless as far as I can tell, scum that floats out of Idophor sanitized glassware. For example, if I sanitize carboys by filling partially with water, adding the Idophor, then filling the rest of the way. Mix, top off with some Idophor sanitizing solution from a measuring cup to 'sanitize it to the rim', and let soak. After a few minutes, a bit of whitish/grayish scum floats to the top. I typically wipe it off and top off the carboy again. This 'scum' floats up a couple of times, then seems to be gone after that. When I sanitize my bottles, I fill multiple 7-gallon buckets with Idophor solution, then submerse the bottles in them (2 sixpacks per bucket). After soaking for an hour or so, I remove the bottles and let them drip-dry on a bottle tree. When I fill the bottles, I do so with a siphon out of a carboy, a brass Phil's Philler, and a large pot on the floor to catch the drips and runs from the filler while I grab another bottle. I notice that in the beer running around the bottom of the pot, that the same 'scum' is floating in it. Not a heck of a lot, but it's there all right. Time before last, I switched to chlorine for everything, and no scum was seen anywhere. Last time was back to Idophor, and the scum returned. It doesn't seem to hurt anything, as evidenced by taste tests and good carbonation results. Anyone else witness this phenomenon? I'm about to quit using Idophor (even though it works and the scum doesn't hurt), just because I don't like seeing the scum and not knowing what it is ... or at least for the bottles, rinsing them with a bottle washer prior to the drip-dry step so that the Idophor solution is rinsed out. The carboys get rinsed anyway since I don't have a good way of letting them drip dry before using them... Brian Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 10:31:18 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Larsen <jal at oasis.novia.net> Subject: Re: Grand Cru Michael Whitt <Golgothus at aol.com> writes in reply to Ted Manahan = Rodenbach Grand Cru style query:: >As far as I can see, Grand Cru is a specialty Belgian White ... though = your >comment on entering it in the Belgian Strong Dark makes me wonder if my >information is correct. I have it listed as color: 2-4 SRM's. I don't = really >know much about this style of beer, but that's the info I have on hand = at this >time. If I am wrong, I hope someone will take the time to correct me.=20 >I would be interested in the recipe, (or even some general advice if = you >wish to keep it a secret for now) as I plan to brew a Grand Cru in the = near >future (within the month I hope) and I only have one recipe, which is = the one >that is in Papazian's book. Any information on this style would be = helpful, >and appreciated (from any source). I am still a neophyte to the brew = world >and to many of the styles out there, and need all the help I can get. = TIA. And I reply: Grand Cru in not a specific style of beer. Grand Cru is usually the = brewery's most special beer, whatever style that is. Rodenbach Grand Cru = is a special, aged, unblended version of Rodenbach Red, and Flanders Red = Ale. The Red is a blend of old and young beer, tart and smooth and = delicious. Rodenbach Grand Cru is intensely tart and an acquired taste = that I have not been able to afford to acquire.=20 I'm sure someone brewery's Grand Cru is a Belgian White, but not = Rodenbach's. Jim Larsen Cerveseria al Fresco Omaha, NE jal at novia.net Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 11:36:45 -0500 (EST) From: Paul Shick <SHICK at JCVAXA.jcu.edu> Subject: Sulfur problem from Munton's malts? Hello all, I guess I've also fallen victim to the poor quality Marris Otter malt from Munton's that George DiPiro reported a while back. Since George apparently monitors his gravity before the boil, he was able to boil long enough to hit his target OG. Unfortunately, I don't check my gravity until pitching time, although this hasn't been a problem until now. I used the Munton's malt as the base for an English pale ale, expecting to get an OG of 1.055+. I was quite suprised when I found 1.046 on the hydrometer at pitching. I wasn't too worried, figuring that I'd just get a light (but a bit overly-bittered) ale that might take a while to age. I assumed that the low OG was due to letting the wort run off too quickly. I use a pump to move from the mash tun to the boil kettle, and occasionally I let the rate get too high. This has never given me this big a difference before, though. After seeing George's post, I wondered if I'd see other differences from the norm in this batch. After kegging and waiting two weeks, I find that the ale has a very noticeable sulfur odor. It's not quite the same as you get from some lager yeasts early in the fermentation, but it's close. It seems to fade a bit as you get further into the pint, but it's definitely annoying. I fermented the ale with Wyeast 1028 London, at about 65F, with a good starter. Fermentation seemed normal enough, so I doubt the yeast is the culprit. The ale also has pretty poor head retention. I'm willing to pin the blame for that on the severly overmodified malt, but I don't know of any mechanisms for overproduction of sulfurous compounds with overmodified malt. Any ideas? As always, thanks in advance for any insights. One other quick note: this overmodified malt is really easy to mill! It practically crushes itself. I haven't gotten around to motorizing my MaltMill yet, and I've found doing 10-11 gallon batches of certain European lager malts involves a pretty good workout. Too bad there isn't a way to get easy "millability" without bad beer! Paul Shick Basement brewing in Cleveland Hts OH Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 08:36:00 -0800 From: "SchoenBacher, Anton" <Anton.Schoenbacher at wwireless.com> Subject: Me and My lame stout. I recently decided to brew a rye stout, I got a recipie from the hbd archives, it was something like this... 8# 2-row 1# flaked rye .5# carapils .5# roasted barley .5# crystal .75# chocolate I did a one step infusion mash at around 150, I say around because the temperature in my mash was very uneven, some parts were 148 and some were 152. I mashed with about 3 gal. of water for 100 minutes. I sparged and everything looked and smelled good, when I went to check my gravity after the boil I started to boil ! It was 1.030 !!!! I got really pissed, especially considering the mess I just made in the kitchen for myself. This has never ever happened to me before, does anybody have some ideas as to why I got such crappy conversion ? Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 11:42:29 -0500 From: danmcc at umich.edu (Daniel S McConnell) Subject: club yeast libraries Dennis Cabell <cabell at home.msen.com> writes: >My question goes out to members of other clubs that have yeast >libraries. How to you administer the library? I don't have the time to >make a starter everytime someone calls and wants a yeast, so I wanted to >know how others did things. Since I more or less administer the club's yeast library, I have some insights here. Actually, it's not that much trouble. I always have sterile wort available and make (1L) starters for brewers when they need them, unless of course, they need them TODAY. I can't boost to 1L that fast. You can make a slant that fast, and it would be much easier, but most of our local brewers are not up to speed on slant culturing techniques. I have learned a few tricks in the process. I don't deliver. I no longer give the cultures out in the glass bottles in which the wort was sterilized-too few of them return in a timely manner-some don't make it back at all. This is not to accuse my friends, it's just that we're all forgetful now and then.....I now do the final boost to 1L in a 2L pop bottle that has been sanitized with iodophor. Works great and it costs my wife only $0.10. You have the oppourtunity to try ALL of the yeasts in your collection which can be difficult to do singlehanded. I find that it is well worth the effort. Especially when the cultures go to our local microbaker, Jeff Renner, who usually brings a loaf or two of French or Rye bread in exchange. Others feel compelled to leave beer which is ok too! DanMcC Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 12:18:15 -0800 From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com Subject: Chill haze and protein rests (yet again) Hi all, Kyle posted the beer-haze musings of a "Mystery Brewing Wizard." In his post, some questionable statements are made with no references to back them up. The most obvious one is: "MBW> Remember its (sic) the same enzyme so at higher temps its (sic) going to be less active and produce less of all types of proteins." There are actually many different enzymes that break down proteins in the mash. At higher temperatures larger proteins are broken down into haze precursors. At lower temperatures smaller peptides are degraded into their constituent amino acids. This is from knowledge gained at Siebel and other sources. The "MBW" goes on to say: "So remember its (sic) the polyphenols that are the major producers of haze." With no references to back this up, it is really hard to believe. Kunze, as well as others, states that chill haze is the product of proteins AND polyphenols that have reacted to form insoluble complexes. Polyphenols don't form haze on their own; they need to combine with proteins. Kunze talks about the importance of minimizing chill haze precursors to help avoid haze in the final beer. Removing either the protein or the polyphenol will reduce chill haze. In fact, tannin (a polyphenol) can be added to beer to haze proof it! Tannin is added to the beer to react with the haze-forming proteins. This induced haze can than be lagered or filtered out. Anheuser-Busch used to do this, but now use silica gel. Don't try this trick at home; you don't want excess tannin in your beer! "MBW" says: "So to contradict your friend Kunze degrading the HMW proteins to MMW proteins will aid in better head retention, more mouth feel, and also better hot and cold break, by the interaction of polyphenols with proteins." It is tough to contradict a major brewing figure without references. Yes, MMW proteins aid head retention and lend mouthfeel to beer. They are not more easily removed from the wort, though. Kunze's assertion that the degradation products of HMW (high molecular weight) proteins are more prone to form chill haze makes sense because they are not as easily removed from the wort as the HMW proteins. In the boil, both proteins and polyphenols are removed as hot break. Larger proteins will be more likely to be removed in this fashion than smaller ones. So while larger proteins would be good candidates for haze producers, they are more easily and effectively removed in the boil. The mid-weight proteins that are formed when a protein rest at ~130F is used are less completely removed during the boil, and may make it into the packaged beer where they can react with polyphenols to form haze. Kunze states (chart on p. 569) that low molecular weight polypeptides are actually detrimental to foam stability, while large proteins aid in foam retention to a certain degree. That is another reason not to do a protein rest. Interestingly, I was just talking to Roger Briess (the maltster) and was bright enough to ask him his opinion of haze-causing proteins and the need for p-rests. In short, he agrees with Kunze. Oxidation of the beer will speed up the haze-producing process, and help make a chill haze permanent. It is also important to note that chill haze will become permanent if given enough time. Temperature cycling and/or warm storage will speed this up, as will O2 and shaking. Back in January or February I quoted extensively from Kunze, listing some of the things he considers to be most important for inducing colloidal stability. Review that post for all the details (if you care). The Mystery Brewer also talks about some other possible causes of haze in packaged beer, including starch, dextrins, and calcium oxalate (beer stone). Starch can of course cause haze in beer. It will be a permanent haze, though, not one that forms only in cold or old beer. Dextrins causing haze is new to me; without data I am skeptical. Calcium oxalate is something that commercial brewers pay attention to, but not because of haze problems. Calcium oxalate (beer stone) is insoluble. It can form in the package just like it forms in your kettle. These crystals will provide nucleation sites for CO2 so that when the beer is opened, GUSH!!! The mega brewers are so wary of this that they actually work to maintain excess calcium in the wort throughout the brew process (80 ppm Ca++ in the packaged beer is adequate). This excess of calcium ensures that all the calcium oxalate is formed in the brewery rather than in the bottle or can. Gushers at homebrew contests are merely annoying; imagine having a commercial beer gush at your dining table! I guess that calcium oxalate could cause light scattering if it was suspended, but my guess is that it would settle out pretty quickly. I could write a LOT more about this stuff, but I have other stuff to do! Have fun! George De Piro (Nyack, NY) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 11:05:14 -0500 From: David Kerr <dkerr at semc.org> Subject: "acid malt" Just stay away from the brown acid malt, man. Dave Kerr - Needham, MA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 13:02:42 -0500 From: James Tomlinson <red_beards at compuserve.com> Subject: 0.08 BAC In HBD2673, Samuel Mize wrote about some of my usenet posts and reprinted some of it. I need to make a couple of minor corrections, I posted it to Alt.beer, not alt.politics (For any who care). Also, I reposted the information from compuserve's Bacchus forum. Pete Petrakis posted the original message to compuserve which I posted in its entirety to alt.beer, with full credit to him. - -- James Tomlinson remove the "no.spam" to reply Give a man a beer, and he wastes an hour. But teach a man how to brew, and he wastes a lifetime! Return to table of contents
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