HOMEBREW Digest #2678 Fri 03 April 1998

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Grand Cru recipe (Ted_Manahan)
  UPS, Alcohol and minors (John E Carsten)
  kegging and cleanliness (Mark Swenson)
  .08, ha! (Jerry Cunningham)
  Yeast starters (Al Korzonas)
  Pre- boil HSA? (ricjohnson)
  Bakers' yeast (Jeff Renner)
  pH Adjustment in Sparge water and mash (James Tomlinson)
  Koelsch Korrections (kathy)
  M&F MO Not All Bad ("Val J. Lipscomb")
  Re:  Herb's Support Your Local Homebrew Shop... ("JBek")
  To Further Confuse the Grand Cru Debate... (Golgothus)
  Re-circulating ("David R. Burley")
  Ashburne and Bonlander malts (results)
  Whats up with B-brite/Idophor? (Ludwig)
  Local Homebrew Stores (Vachom)
  trub question (Christopher Peterson)
  Protein rests (George_De_Piro)
  Carboy Stirrer (bob_poirier)
  FWH? (Alan Edwards)
  .08 BAC ("Buchanan, Robert")
  Moving my hops ("Andrew Avis")
  Carbos and Beer - The Final Word ("Hans E. Hansen")
  microscopes (Herbert Bresler)
  The Best in Burners (Bill Giffin)
  Questions (Jonathan Ingram)
  Eric Schoville/Keg stratification (John Wilkinson)
  Homebrew Shops ("Mark S. Johnston")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 09:03:12 -0800 From: Ted_Manahan <tedm at hpcvn2ax.cv.hp.com> Subject: Grand Cru recipe I got several helpful e-mails about my question about the style of Rodenbach Grand Cru. I also got several requests for the recipe. After doing another side-by-side, I have to confess that my beer isn't as good as the Rodenbach. I think it's a credible approximation, but it falls short in a few areas. The Rodenbach Grand Cru has a depth of flavor that I attribute to malt background. My understanding from some posted Belgium trip reports is that Rodenbach undergoes a long boil. That would contribute to the malty complexity. My beer is somewhat thinner and lighter in color. It's also a bit more acidic. If I were to make this beer again, I would boil it for three or more hours before adding the hops. I'd also do a shorter, higher temperature mash and hold it on oak for longer. The beer would probably still be missing something, but it should be closer. Anyway, this is as well as I can reconstruct the recipe I used. For 50 liters (13 gallons): 22 lbs pale malt 1 lb 20L Crystal .5 lb wheat malt .5 lb chocolate malt (?L) .5 lb 50L special roast 2 oz 300L roast barley 3 t gypsum (I have soft water) Mash at 155 F for two hours. 7 lbs light malt extract 2 oz 6.1a domestic fuggles 70 minutes 1 oz 5.6 Mt. Hood 60 minutes .5 oz 5.6a Mt. Hood 20 minutes .5 oz 6.1a domestic fuggles 10 minutes .5 oz 5.6a Mt. Hood 5 minutes OG about 1.065 Ferment for 2 weeks with Wyeast 1098. Age in oak barrel four months with Brett. Lambicus, Bruxellensis, and Dublinensis cultures. The oak had previously held a couple batches of IPA and some white wine with "malo-lactic bacteria". I don't know what "malo-lactic bacteria" is - I got it from a local vinyard. Bottled September '97 at 1.007 FG. In truth I was making a recreation of an 18th century English old ale. This would be a strong ale drunk by itself by the wealthy, or mixed with brown and dark ale to make a predecessor to today's porter. There are historical and stylistic connections between these two styles. Both beers would have aged for a long time in oak casks. Eugene Rodenbach went to England to study brewing techniques in the 1870's (Reference Jackson). I believe that the English "old ale" style was still somewhat sour at that time. I may enter it as a Flanders Oud Bruin, though it's too strong and sour for that style. On the other hand, I may enter it as specialty. Thanks for your help! Return to table of contents
Date: 01 Apr 1998 11:00:49 -0600 From: John E Carsten <John.E.Carsten at oklaosf.state.ok.us> Subject: UPS, Alcohol and minors I spend a lot of time lurking, but since the HBD has broached a subject that is "in my field" so to speak, I figured I'd come out from under my rock for a few minutes. I've worked in government, both at the congressional and state level. I have sent e-mails to the bill's author, as well as my own congressman, but here's what I see when I look objectively at the bill. The bill is H.R. 3537 by Juanita Millender-McDonald of California. It places punishments of fines and jail time for any shipping company which deliver's alcohol to a minor. The problem is obvious. Most of us at the HBD are concerned that shippers will stop carrying alcohol altogether rather than try to mess with another worthless federal restriction. The actual text of the legislation can be found at: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c105:H.R.3537: She's a first-term Democrat, probably trying to hang her name on a "sexy" issue since she's up for re-election in 7 months. "Sexy" meaning it's going to get her a lot of press coverage back in her district so that people will vote for her. The bill was introduced last Tuesday with 16 co-sponsors signing on at the time of introduction. So far it has picked up no more. The bill was immediately shuffled off the Rep. Henry Hyde's Judiciary Committee. As far as I can tell, there is no companion legislation in the Senate. Of the 16 who co-sponsored the bill, all are Democrats and two are delegates, which means if this bill ever gets to the House floor, they won't be able to vote on it anyway. As for it ever getting to the House floor for a vote, consider a few facts. There are a total of 17 Democrat names on this bill. For those of you who have not read a paper in 4 years, the Republicans are in charge on Capitol Hill. This is an election year, and this is a "feel good", "we're doing it all for our children" kind of issue. The bottom line is, even if there were a handful of Republicans who would let this thing make it out of committee, in an election year when the Republicans are trying hard to remain in the majority, there is no way they are going to let the Democrats get away with a free hit like this. Plus, the Judiciary Committee has several other bills on its plate. Long story short, this bill will likely not be heard in committee before the summer recess. After recess, all 435 Representatives and 5 delegates will be too busy trying to make sure they get sent back to DC next January. Look for this thing to die a quiet death in committee. If it's not out and on the floor by the time everybody goes home for Chirstmas, Ms. Millender-McDonald will have to run it again next time (if she's re-elected this fall). Those of us who ship beer to contests via UPS and other delivery services, will still be able to do so in the forseeable future. Sorry for the waste of space. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 13:06:05 -0400 From: Mark Swenson <swenson at aoml.noaa.gov> Subject: kegging and cleanliness I have recently acquired a Cornilius-type kegging set up. I've been pleased with the results, but I haven't hit upon an easy and reliable procedure for maintaining cleanliness. I wonder if any HBDers who have more experience than I do would care to describe the essential aspects of how to prepare the keg for the next batch of beer? Basically what I want to know is: How do you clean and sanitize the keg and fittings? I would be happy to compile a summary of the responses if it is warranted. Thanks. Mark Swenson Key Biscayne, FL Miami Area Society of Homebrewers Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 13:35:33 -0500 From: Jerry Cunningham <gcunning at census.gov> Subject: .08, ha! The legal blood alocohol limit in my house (which I never leave, due to 2 small kids and a pregnant wife) is .whatever-the-hell-I-want-it-to-be . When the 3rd child arrives, I will enact emergency legislation to have it raised. - Jerry Annapolis, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 12:36:59 -0600 (CST) From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> Subject: Yeast starters Ray writes: >Question 1) Is it wise to save some of the sediment from the primary or >the secondary. Yes. Both. ...but you will get different yeasts. If you do this repeatedly (reusing yeast over and over), you will select for more flocculent yeast if you use yeast from the primary and less flocculent yeast if you use yeast from the secondary. >Question 2) If from the primary, what about all the proteins, dead >yeast, etc. that will be mixed in with the sediment? Dead yeast is not really a problem unless you repitch the WHOLE yeast mass batch after batch. After all, one of the best yeast nutrients is dead yeast! As for proteins/break, a little bit of that would be beneficial and a lot would really only present problems for lagers where you are trying to keep higher alcohol and ester production lower (fermenting on break increases ester and higher alcohol production). >Question 3) My goal is create a starter ahead of time and put it in my >cooler to shorten the lead time. Many times I don't know if I will be >able to brew until a day or two ahead of time. Well.... ideally, you would like to add a bit of sanitised wort a day before use. You want the yeast to be high in glycogen and starving them is a sure way to get low-glycogen yeast. Low-glycogen yeast will produce more sulphur compounds, give lower attenuation and produce more of the other byproducts. >I prefer to use liquid yeast and would make a starter from these as >opposed to collecting slurry from previous batches. If I make a starter >from liquid yeast: > >Question 4) What should I store this starter with? Additional wort, >sterile water, boiled tap water, or nothing except the original contents >of the starter? I store the yeast under the original contents... every transfer risks infection. Then, a day or two before brewing, I'll feed the starter and it will be just past high-kraeusen (the optimal time is just past) at pitching time. I will often dump the spent wort before feeding. Oh... if you put the starter in the fridge with an airlock, I suggest putting some cotton in the airlock (I use s-shaped glass airlocks for starters) so that any air that gets sucked in during cooling is somewhat filtered through the cotton. >Question 5) How long can a starter be stored for? I've revived yeast from three-year-old Belgian ales... Then again, I probably only had a few thousand live yeasts in the bottle... not much of a starter, is it? No, the longer it's stored, the more dead yeast you'll have... if you feed the starter a day or two before use, it' shouldn't be a problem. Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com My new website (still under construction, but up-and-running): http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 14:06:49 -0500 From: ricjohnson at SURRY.NET Subject: Pre- boil HSA? While doing an extract/specialty grain batch last weekend I changed my procedure a little. As per Al K's (excellent) book I put 1 gal water in my brewpot and steeped the grains at 170 for 30 min. Not per the book I added my extract to this 1 gal of wort, then I added the additional water. I used a pitcher and in haste just poured it in splashing and all. Will I experience the effects of HSA by splashing the wort prior to the boil? Richard Johnson Mt. Airy, NC Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 16:17:31 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Bakers' yeast Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> asked: >I don't know if bakers' yeast is Saccharomyces Not only is it _Saccharomyces_, but _S. cerevisiae_ at that. It was derived from brewing yeasts during the last century and repeatedly modified/improved. The first commercial product was referred to as "German yeast," from its origin, about 125 years ago or so. Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 16:30:36 -0500 From: James Tomlinson <red_beards at compuserve.com> Subject: pH Adjustment in Sparge water and mash A short while ago I requested info on acid use in brewing. I was not getting a decent hot or cold break after I started using lactic acid for pH adjustments. Several people requested a copy of the answer. Several people identified the problem: Too much acid. Al K. noted that if I was reading my pH at room temp, I had to adjust it down by 0.3, when considering that reading in the mash. I was adjusting directly by that method, so I over acidified. I was using a range of 5.3-5.5. At room temp, the proper range would be 5.6-5.8. I am now adjusting my proceedures to use that level. This should cut my acid usage in by about 1/3. - -- James Tomlinson remove the "no.spam" to reply Give a man a beer, and he wastes an hour. But teach a man how to brew, and he wastes a lifetime! Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 16:41:44 -0500 From: kathy <kbooth at scnc.waverly.k12.mi.us> Subject: Koelsch Korrections Thanks for all the first class responces to my questions. I asked "if Wyeast 2565 through a particular DMS note" and two responces said "not for them". Two other responces said some DMS is characteristic of Koelsch and the European varieties have a distinctive nose from most domestic offerings. It was pointed out gently but firmly that I had confused a diacytl rest (buttery notes) practiced by pilsner brewers with a DMS rest. Thanks for being tender with the aged among you. What seems to have happened. As I brewed on a bitter cold winter night complete with snowbanks, I took advantage of the snow bank to chill my three brews. Using the same methodology on all three batches (Koelsch, abbey and lambic) only the koelsch was "korney" I had covered all three batches as they sat in the snowbank, but the koelsch was a significantly larger batch and took longer to cool. Opened the first bottle today and as long as I drink it without inhaling it is a great beer. Most non-beergeek people I have try beers, don't inhale anyway so it may be OK. cheers, jim booth, lansing, mi p.s. On the .08 question....one drink if you are dead tired produces as much impairment as being .08. Above all, don't drink and drive TIRED! Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 17:57:25 -0600 (CST) From: "Val J. Lipscomb" <valjay at NetXpress.com> Subject: M&F MO Not All Bad Greetings All, Just finished brewing an IPA using M&F Marris Otter malt. I've been putting off using it because of George DePiro and others having problems with it. My experience today was mostly positive. 11 pounds M&F and 1 pound Crystal 60 yielded an OG of 1.066 in a 5.25 gallon batch. I assume from this that,while there are some bad lots around,it's not all bad. Take heart,all ye who had bought it and dreaded trying it. Brewers Workshop says that's 81% extraction, I,for one,can't bitch about that. Smelled great in mash and kettle and the wort tasted good,too. All that said, with a single temp infusion at 156F for 75-80 minutes,I did end up with a *very* large amount of break material (2-3 inches in a 7 gallon carboy). ?????? Val Lipscomb-brewing in San Antonio Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 23:25:37 -0800 From: "JBek" <JBek at mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Herb's Support Your Local Homebrew Shop... C'mon Herb, a homebrew business is just like any other. If you don't service the customer to the maximum or provide prices that beat all others, your out of the running... Why would I ever go out of my way to shmooz my local homebrew shop for attention by bringing of brew and trying to strike up conversation with someone who obviously doesn't care when I can get all of the info and good prices right here or somewhere down the block... If the owner isn't on top of what his employees are doing that his her problem. It's not the consumer who must create a niche for the small homebrew shop, its the business owner who must make this effort to ensure his very own survival! Good luck to you (and your shop?) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 05:50:46 EST From: Golgothus <Golgothus at aol.com> Subject: To Further Confuse the Grand Cru Debate... Hello again from the newbie who started the Great Grand Cru Debate... I don't know any of this for sure but here goes. In the four books that I have: 1.) The New Complete Joy of Home Brewing, 2.) Dave Miller's Homebrewing Guide, 3.) Homebrew Favorites (a recipe collection) and 4.) Homebrewing for Dummies (Which I definitely needed :-) ), the information I can come up with at this time states that the Grand Cru "Style" of ale is a Belgian White... I have found no other reference to a Grand Cru being anything else (though the Rodenbach Grand Cru which Malty Dog (Bill Coleman) states "is an entirely different style, the Flanders Red, which is usually combined with Oud Bruin in competition style" and I don't doubt him at all, as I said I am new to the "real beer" world.) I have found several places where Grand Cru is called a style or version of Belgian White or Wit though. I realize now that the AHA has no "Grand Cru" category and that this is more than likely just a misunderstanding among brewers terms for their beer, BUT: Ex 1: On page 223 of The Complete Joy of... Papazian states "In the style of a Belgian Whit beer flavored with coriander, orange peel and the spiciness of German hops, Who's in the Garden Grand Cru is a copy of Belgium's Hoegaarden Grand Cru Ale..." I will give that he doesn't call it a style (and I suspect he knows ;-) ) but he does state that it is a Belgian White... so Steve Stroud is wrong in stating it isn't a White. I also freely admit that in Papazian's recipe is has no wheat listed (but it has honey to lighten the character of the wort). It's true I was thinking of Celis and Hoegaarden when I posted my original thoughts on Grand Cru as a sub-style of White, and everything I've found on-line suggests that they are, and on Celis's home page he does discuss picking Texas for the Hard Winter Wheat for his White, but again I am unsure if there is any wheat in the Grand Cru (perhaps someone will be good enough to e-mail them and see if it does or not) Ex 2: On page 291 of Dave Miller's book... He states, "The Belgian Wit (White) beer, made with unmalted wheat and flavored with coriander and orange peel as well as hops, has become very popular and is now being brewed in the United States by Celis Brewing Company of Austin, Texas. A stronger version, Grand Cru (Italics mine), is also available." Ex. 3: On page 91 of Homebrew Favorites, in discussing his beer "French Boarder Guarde", Dan McConnell of the Ann Arbor Brewers Guild states, "This beer is of the Grand Cru style (again italics mine) and has tremendous orange nose." And just to confuse issues farther, there is no wheat in the recipe that follows the introduction. Homebrewing for Dummies makes no mention of Grand Cru. But neither does it mention Flanders Brown/Oud Bruin (Actually it has it listed as /DUB BRUIN instead but that must be a typo) except to mention it is AHA Style 2a. (Does anyone know where I can get a good description of ALL the AHA styles as they are listed in the book? It has 28 basic plus sub-styles and I only have profiles for about half of them. TIA.) A final question on the White ... is Hoegaarden the same beer that Celis brewed in Belgium? I know he had a "falling out" with the company that helped him rebuild in the 80's after his brewery burned down in Hoegaarden ... and that is responsible for his coming to the US... I was just curious if the Hoegaarden White that is being made is based on his original recipe, as he was the man responsible for bringing the style back in the first place. Let me know if anyone has any info on that subject. TIA> I know this doesn't clear up the debate, but I don't feel so bad mistaking it as a "style" now, as some of the-better-informed-than-I have done the same. I suppose the easiest thing to do is get in touch with the brewers of "Grand Cru" and see if they are willing to tell us the basic ingredients of their respective brews (i.e., wheat or not) and go by the AHA style guide for our own brews ... what you put in is what it is, I think... Much thanks to all who helped me to understand what I could about the whole thing ... perhaps someday we will be able to get this all straightened out, till then I remain... Michael Whitt Brewster and Philosopher at Large Bragi's Brewery Mobile Al Golgothus at aol.com "He who lives by the skull, will die by the skull." (As I prove time and time again... ;-) ). Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 08:08:55 -0500 From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Re-circulating Brewsters: Ron LaBorde says: >(by the way, >can anyone explain the difference between circulating and >recirculating), It's done by the same people who pre-plan and use new innovations. - ---------------------------------------------------------- Dave Riedel after using protein rests and heat- up through the protein rests came to this conclusion: >I'm tempted to conclude (for this batch) that the low temp >rests resulted in my very clear product. This is exactly why I hold at 122F to reduce the beta glucans and VLMW proteins to produce clarity. I hold about 15 minutes at 122F heat up at 1 degree per minute and go to 135F where I hold for 30 minutes before mashing in boiling water and heating to the desired saccharification.I do this for Pilsners and occasionally for pale ale malts depending on the grist. I never have any heading problems and my beers are always clear despite low temperature protein rest nay-sayers' comments. - ------------------------------------------------------- Kyle Druey says: >I have noticed that when I first start pouring from the keg the beer is >much thicker and meatier than at the end of the keg. The last gallon or >so is much lighter and thinner than the first gallon. Seems like >gravity takes effect and pulls the heavier ends (technical term) toward >the bottom to be consumed first. Funny how gravity does that. Gravity *would* be funny if it did that. Especially in the presence of Brownian motion and other things like turbulent motion which keeps things stirred up. Entropy wouldn't like it either. Simple mixtures of gases and liquids do not separate out under the influence of gravity. I don't experience that thinning effect for beers months old, although the older the beer, the less bitter it becomes. This may be one explanation to the mouth feel change and the other may be that you have a mild infection which is raising the acidity of the beer towards the end. Check the total acidity before and during the storage and see. - ----------------------------------------------- Keep on brewin' Dave Burley Kinnelon, NJ 07405 103164.3202 at compuserve.com Dave_Burley at compuserve.com Voice e-mail OK Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 07:27:27 -0600 From: results <results at win.bright.net> Subject: Ashburne and Bonlander malts Typical Malt Analysis Ashborn Bonlander plump 85% 85% extract f.g,d.b. 80.5% 80.5% extract C/F diff. 1.8% 1.8% color 5.5L 8.5L Diastatic 60 45 Total Prot. 10.5-11.5 10.5-11.5% S/T Prot. 43% 40% Both are Harrington malts. I've samples of both of them and they taste good. At some point I'm going to try something with them to see how they measure up... Randy Lee Viking Brewing Company Dallas WI http://www.win.bright.net/~results Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 09:09:42 -0500 From: Ludwig <dludwig at us.hsanet.net> Subject: Whats up with B-brite/Idophor? Howdy, I've been spring cleaning my beer making methods and just switched to B-brite for cleaning and idophor for sanitizing. The B-brite came in a 5 lb bag (C&B) with no instructions. After searching on net, I found references to mixing in "..hot water, the hotter the better" and using 1 tablespoon per gallon. Is this right? I have a problem with using hot water in my carboys so I plan to use warm water. The package says: "Contains sodium carbonate and sodium silicate". Sodium carbonate is washing soda right? In Noonan's book, he says: "Washing soda is applied hot. It is far less effective than other cleansers mentioned". I read a reference to sodium perchloride (SP?) as being a prime ingredient in B-brite for sanitizing in the HBD archives. Not sure if this was the right compound listed but it was PerChlor... something. What happened to it? I'm not using b-brite for a sanitizer but what's up? Also, regarding idophor scum, I've seen it too. Last night, after cleaning a brand new carboy and soaking with idophor. Thin filmlike scum floated to the top. What up up with that? I'm wondering whether I should just go back to chlorox. Cheers, Dave Ludwig Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 09:20:45 -0600 From: Vachom <MVachow at newman.k12.la.us> Subject: Local Homebrew Stores I agree heartily with the sentiment expressed in this recent string that homebrewers should support their local supply shops. I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say that purchasing one's supplies from a mail-order outfit will necessarily be contributing to the homogenization of America. Snarfing McDonald's, yes; I don't think we'll ever see Homebrew Depot. I do, however, believe that I'm in my right as a consumer and member of the larger community to accept nothing short of decent service. I'm blessed with an excellent homebrew supply shop here in New Orleans--an outfit name of BrewHaHa. It's a small operation, can't afford to stock lots of gadgets, and I don't necessarily always have a choice amongst national origin of the same variety of malted grains, but, in my point of experience in brewing, that isn't a problem. My biggest problem with the place is one to which I actively contribute, namely mooning around the place, sampling whatever Mike has on tap and chewing the fat with Mike and his customers. On occasion I have to dash in to pick up something after work and end up grumbling about the fact that it took 20 minutes to pick up a packet of yeast Mike popped for me that morning. But I'm in the store two days later preventing some other poor bastard from making a quick trip for bottlecaps. In the end, I'd rather have to wait around those few times a month than have Mike actively or tacitly running me or other homebrewers out of the place and turning the prevailing ethic into a, well, McHomebrew. I would be willing to cease business with a homebrew supply shop where that was the prevailing ethic, where, in some way, the owners/employees made it clear that they don't have time to offer advice or talk about brewing. I would also draw the line with a supply shop that knowingly sold me inferior materials. I would also stop frequenting a place where any kind of homebrewing snobbery or zealotry existed amongst the employees or owners--whether it be extract/all-grain or beer styles or procedures. Part of acting locally is ensuring that the local service is of better quality than the mega-corporation. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 10:28:07 -0500 From: Christopher Peterson <peterson at ucmg65.med.uc.edu> Subject: trub question Collective: I generally leave the trub in my primary fermenter. I know Please comment what this does to the flavor of the beer. Christopher Peterson peterson at molgen.uc.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 10:28:59 -0800 From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com Subject: Protein rests Hi all Dave Reidel writes in to report that he has made a clear, poor-head wheat beer. He rested at ~113F and 122F (45C and 50C). He asks if this contradicts Kunze, because he used a protein rest and got unusually clear beer. Actually, what Dave did supports Kunze, and it supports my preaching about losing protein rests. Kunze states that it is high molecular weight (HMW) protein degradation products that lead to haze. These HMW protein degradation products are actually MMW (mid-molecular weight) proteins that not only cause haze (in conjunction with polyphenols), but give a beer a good head and body. Kunze states that modern malts are all well modified, and contain enough MMW proteins for adequate head retention and body. Doing a high temp protein rest will form an over abundance of these MMW proteins, increasing haze potential. Low temp protein rests like Dave did breakdown these MMW proteins, thus yielding very clear beer. Unfortunately, the resulting beer will also be thin and headless, EVEN WHEN USING WHEAT MALT. I learned this myself a while ago: even when making wheat beer, minimize the time the mash is at 113-131F (45-55C). Otherwise you end up with headless KrystalWeizen! Have fun! George De Piro (Nyack, NY) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 98 10:15:44 -0600 From: bob_poirier at adc.com Subject: Carboy Stirrer Way back in HBD #2570 (November '97), John Schnupp gave details about a magnetically coupled flask stirrer that he put together for $0. He uses this contraption to stir his yeast starters, effectively aerating the starter for the required period of time during yeast growth (correct?). I've recently read something somewhere (Brewery B-Board?) that says you should aerate the wort with oxygen via an aeration stone for specific lengths of time, at specific intervals, after the yeast is pitched, in order to promote healthy yeast. Instead of the aeration stone, how about adapting John's flask stirrer to work with a carboy, or, with a plastic bucket, for that matter? Any thoughts? Bob Poirier bob_poirier at adc.com - private e-mail OK. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 08:10:29 -0800 (PST) From: Alan Edwards <ale at cisco.com> Subject: FWH? I've read several posts that mention this, but must have missed something. What exactly is First Wort Hopping? What is it supposed to do for the beer? Thanks! -Alan in Fremont, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 11:49:12 -0500 From: "Buchanan, Robert" <RBuchanan at ChristianaCare.org> Subject: .08 BAC For my first posting I apologize in advance for joining the .08 BAC flame that's been posted here for the past week or so. I am in agreement with most that this is an infraction on our rights and a first step to further restrictions, however the people have spoken. On the national news Wednesday evening it was reported that the portion of the Federal Highway Bill which included the .08 BAC restriction for federal funds was dropped form the bill. Hey let's go have a homebrew !! Can we at least for now, focus on more practical brewing issues and less on political ones ? While we must constantly be aware of how the political cronies wish to further special intersts by legislating morality we should move on to more practical considerations. Bob Buchanan Give a man a beer and he wastes an hour. Teach a man to brew and he wastes a lifetime. Return to table of contents
Date: 2 Apr 1998 11:39:48 -0700 From: "Andrew Avis" <Andrew.Avis.0519423 at nt.com> Subject: Moving my hops It's spring, so I suppose a flood of hop growing questions is not far behind. I'm pleased to post the first one: I'm moving, and I'd like to take my cascade hop plant with me. Is it wise to dig up the plant before any growth is visible, or should I wait until the vine has started to grow? Regards, Andrew Avis Calgary Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 98 12:52:45 From: "Hans E. Hansen" <hansh at teleport.com> Subject: Carbos and Beer - The Final Word Thanks to all for the various e-mails on this subject. In Monday's (March 30) HBD, Peter A. Ensminger (ensmingr at npac.syr.edu) listed the following page for beer calorie and carbo info: http://www.npac.syr.edu/users/ensmingr/beer/beerdata.html I didn't find the tables of much use to me, but the technical notes at the end explained all. Given were formulas for figuring out calories from the starting and ending gravities. The amount of carbohydrates weren't given directly, but can be extracted out of the Calorie formula: Carbohydrates (grams/100 ml) = (RE-0.1) * FG ; where RE is Real Extract To get per 12 oz bottle, multiply by 3.55. The formulas are very straight forward, but can be a little tedious if you are comparing several beers. I have written a short QuickBasic program that does it all for you. If anybody is interested, I will email it. My simple e-mail program only allows 1 attachment, so specify whether you want the source (.BAS) or the executable (.EXE). Hans E. Hansen hansh at teleport.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 17:52:55 -0500 From: Herbert Bresler <bresler.7 at osu.edu> Subject: microscopes I'd like to add to AJ's <ajdel at mindspring.com> comments about Phase Contrast microscopy vs. bright field. >RE: some comments on phase contrast vs. brightfield microscopes I made >recently. Last night I did a viability check on some yeast from my last >batch and, with the post in mind, looked at the cells with brightfield >as well as phase contrast at 400X. Phase contrast may make things a >little easier to see but the vacuoles were plainly visible with >brightfield as well. Based on last night's experience I'd relegate phase >contrast to "nice to have" status but definitely not necessary. Absolutely correct! Phase is an expensive option that is not necessary. It also requires considerable knowledge and experience to properly adjust it. If not properly compensated for, even the slides you are using can interfere with it (something to consider when using hemacytometer slides for counting). You can get a satisfactory "phase effect" using a regular light (bright field) microscope by racking the light condenser way down; the poor man's phase contrast. I use it all the time for doing counts and viability determinations with trypan blue and it works great. The live cells appear bright against the "phase" darkened background. Yeast ranching in Columbus, Ohio, Herb bresler.7 at osu.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 18:00:52 -0500 From: Bill Giffin <billg at ctel.net> Subject: The Best in Burners Top of the morning to yea all, I read the article published in Zymurgy on burners with a bit of interest until the author of the article stated that the means of testing probably wasn't appropriate to come up with any conclusions other then gas consumption. Brewing beer is not the same as heating two gallons of water to boiling, then extrapolating those result to how well the burners would perform for the homebrewer. I do hope that the folks conducting the test had a good time drinking beer and watching water boil as the only thing of importance that happened that day was a few folks got together and enjoyed a couple of beers. Certainly the test of the burners was meaningless. The conclusion stated in the article on the Superb PC-100 "A more practical use for the burner would be an outdoor alternative to your kitchen stovetop for a small-scale, extract brewing setup." Is pure nonsense! I have used the Superb 35,000 Btu burner for over 7 years and brewed in excess of 200 batches of all grain beer with this burner. After I had used the Superb for 15 or so batches I got an 170,000 Btu burner and used that for a few batches then went back to the Superb as it was superb to the higher out put burner. The Superb will easily bring seven to eight gallons of wort to a wonderful rolling boil and do so without using a whole 20-pound tank of propane. The burner will also step mash or decoction mash raising the mash temperature at the appropriate 2-degrees F per minute. What more can you ask for? Is Zymurgy so desperate for articles that it will allow any bit of crap to be the cover story? Bill Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 18:32:42 -0500 From: Jonathan Ingram <jgi105 at psu.edu> Subject: Questions I posted a question about a honey ginger recipe last week, now I have some more questions about it. After feedback I switched the amount of ginger to apx. 2 ozs However, I brewed last Wed. with the following recipe: 3 lbs light DME, 2.5 lbs light clover honey, 3/4 lb crystal malt, 1.5 oz Cascade (boiling), .5 oz Cascade (finishing), 1 Pkg. Wyeast American Ale yeast. After I brewed and added to my primary it was 9 balling. I took a sample yesterday (its still fermenting) and it was down to 1 balling. This would have an 8% alcohol level already. Can this be right? Then I tasted my sample and it was very bitter. Is this the ginger I'm tasting? and will this mellow out with age? This is only my 4th batch and my first batch with liquid yeast and "real" grains. So any help is appreciated. My second question is, how would I go about harvesting the yeast off the bottom of my primary. And what should I put it in? Can I just take the slurry off the bottom and store it in a large beer bottle? And then how would I use this yeast next time I needed it? Would I have to use this yeast in the same recipe, or could I use it for any ale recipe? Thanks for any help. -Jon Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 98 17:50:27 CST From: jwilkins at wss.dsccc.com (John Wilkinson) Subject: Eric Schoville/Keg stratification Eric Schoville wrote: >The only disadvantage is that 12 gallons of beer in a SS keg is >heavy! Of course with my Arnold Schwartzeneggeresque physique >it poses no problem, but for all of you girly men out there, you >might need some help! Gosh, Eric, you must have been pumping a lot of iron since the last time I saw you! Kyle Druey wrote: >I have noticed that when I first start pouring from the keg the beer is >much thicker and meatier than at the end of the keg. The last gallon or >so is much lighter and thinner than the first gallon. I have thought I had just the opposite. My beers seem to be heavier and maybe even sweeter at the end than at the beginning. I thought maybe some of the hop bitterness had mellowed out leaving the malt flavor more prominent. I dunno. John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkns at wss.dsccc.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 20:26:10 -0500 From: "Mark S. Johnston" <msjohnst at talon.net> Subject: Homebrew Shops To those who complain of the service they receive at their local homebrew shop, I can only say: "Be grateful that you have one." My local supplier announced last Monday that they were going out of business. I got there today and the shelves were fairly cleaned out. A few others in this area have made noises that their longevity in the business is threatened as well. The bottom line seems to be that there are fewer homebrewers than a few years ago, current homebrewers are brewing less often, and those that do are finding alternate sources for their supplies. Brew-Ha-Ha, Ltd. RIP. Return to table of contents
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