HOMEBREW Digest #2685 Sat 11 April 1998
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FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of
Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
URL: http://www.oeonline.com
Contents:
yeast for BIG BREW (Al Korzonas)
Ronco hop drier (Al Korzonas)
Loose hops and Firkins ("Mark Bridges")
Gott vs. Igloo Coolers (Al Korzonas)
One Fridge or Two? (Alan McKay)
Gott vs Igloo : Igloo wins hands down (Alan McKay)
Red Hook E.S.B. (Bob)
Re: Yeast recc. for Big Brew '98 ("Brian Rezac")
Fruit beer (Reyna Eisenstark)
Brewing in a dungeon?? (Jim Suggs)
.08 and Gun Rights ("Raymond C. Steinhart")
The Jethro Gump Report ("Rob Moline")
Long ferment with Wyeast #3068 ("Michael J. Westcott")
C02 Cylinders (Riley)
Cottonwood brewery?? (MicahM1269)
FWH (Bill Giffin)
Phils new Philler/Ammonia (results)
False bottom problems... (Stephen Rockey)
Lactic Acid (Lau William WT)
Wort Aeration (bob_poirier)
infections at home, aeration of water (Jim Liddil)
Cross Brewery Infections ("Houseman, David L")
Sour mash, lambics ("David R. Burley")
Re: HBD Post on Big Brew '98 ("Brian Rezac")
Fermentap (antnee56)
CO2 gas detectors (Kenneth Sullivan)
hop disease ("Mike Allred")
re: well thermometers (Jason Henning)
Re: Bacterial Worries ("Joel Plutchak")
Extract wit (Kit Anderson)
Re: BT & Upcoming Stuff (Deb Jolda)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 13:12:42 -0500 (CDT)
From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com>
Subject: yeast for BIG BREW
Dan asks about dry yeast for the Big Brew Barleywine.
I have had very good experiences with the Danstar Nottingham and
Windsor yeasts. The Nottingham is slightly more attenuative.
The Windsor slightly more sulphury during fermentation and is
a little more "tart." If I do go with dry yeast, I'll probably
go with the Nottingham.
However, what I will probably do is brew a 5-gallon batch of
Special Bitter from liquid yeast the week before the BIG BREW.
I will bring unpitched wort back home from the event and then,
after racking the Bitter off to a keg, split the dregs between
the Barleywine wort carboys.
The Mayor of the town in which we are planing to brew is a little
worried about the legality of this event. I'm going to calm
his fears by telling him we will all pitch yeast when we go
home. Therefore, from the Mayor's perspective, we're just
making an awful lot of very weird barley soup.
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at xnet.com
My new website (still under construction, but up-and-running):
http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 13:34:56 -0500 (CDT)
From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com>
Subject: Ronco hop drier
Eric asks about using a Ronco Food Dehydrator for drying hops.
I've done this and you have to be very careful... I did not use an
extension like you fabricated, so maybe your mileage may vary.
I dried the hops overnight and that was FAR too dry. They all
shattered into piles of petals upon the slightest touch. If you
have a very accurate scale, search the HBD archives for "hop drying"
and see what the %moisture is for picked and dried hops. You can
then weigh one of the trays periodically and stop when the weight
has dropped the correct amount. I simply guessed... and guessed
wrong.
I've read where hops are slightly overdried and then allowed to
reabosorb some moisture, but I suspect that this is because commercially
they are working with much larger quantities and it would be impossible
to have the entire batch be at the perfect dryness at exactly the
same time.
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at xnet.com
My new website (still under construction, but up-and-running):
http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 12:08:41 -0700
From: "Mark Bridges" <mbridges at coastnet.com>
Subject: Loose hops and Firkins
Greetings all:
George de Piro wondered in HBD #2682 about an English brewer adding loose
hops to his firkin - and the possibility of those hops ending up in
someone's pint.
The secret is not in the firkin, but in the tap used to dispense the beer.
Firkins have two bungs - one on the side (called a shive) for filling,
hopping, etc. and a small one (called a tut) on the end. This small wooden
tut is where you drive the tap through when preparing the cask for service.
The tap has one blunt end which is struck with the mallet in order to drive
the tap through the tut. The other end is tapered to allow penetration of
the tut, and when driven far enough in will seat itself and prevent any
leakage. This tapered portion has a closed end, and along the taper are a
series of small holes - these allow the ale to flow while restraining the
hops. Since my ASCII art skills are woefully inadequate, see Terry Foster's
Pale Ale issue (pg 77) of the Classic Beer Style Series.
It is possible to get some hop flotsam in the pint - it helps a great deal
if your hops are not prone to shattering. And a little practice helps when
it comes to tapping the cask - if the ale is in high condition it can make
for a dramatic moment ! I once saw a cask tapped at a festival which shot a
stream of bitter about a dozen feet to soak the shoes of a fellow standing
"within range"!
So George (and all HBD'ers) - consider yourself invited to Victoria, BC
where every Friday we gather at Spinnakers Brewpub for some real ale - drawn
directly from the firkin sitting atop the bar. Marvellous stuff !
Cheers,
Mark Bridges
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 14:12:27 -0500 (CDT)
From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com>
Subject: Gott vs. Igloo Coolers
Actually, the Gott/Rubbermaid *IS* recommended for hot liquids whereas
the Igloo is NOT. I have seen quite a few permanently deformed cooler
interiors and know that it does indeed make a big difference. The
deformations are more than cosmetic, incidentally... when the floor
deforms the slotted tubing can rise off the bottom, leaving good wort
behind. If you are using a false bottom, it can unseat letting grain
underneath to clog your plumbing.
Al.
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 16:47:21 -0500
From: Alan McKay <amckay at magma.ca>
Subject: One Fridge or Two?
My circa 28 cubit foot fridge will hold any of :
- 4 short fat kegs
- 5 tall skinny kegs
- 2 short fat and one carboy
- 3 tall skinny and one carboy
That's good enough for me.
Only disadvantage is obviously that I have only
one temp control
cheers,
-Alan
- --
"Brewers make wort. Yeast makes beer".
-Dave Miller's Homebrewing Guide
http://www.magma.ca/~bodnsatz/brew/tips/
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 16:54:16 -0500
From: Alan McKay <amckay at magma.ca>
Subject: Gott vs Igloo : Igloo wins hands down
Just posted this to rec.crafts.brewing, and noticed a similar
thread here in the HBD :
While on the topic, a few weeks ago I was at a hardware store in
the Italian quarter where a good friend lives. There are several good
brew shops there, and even the hardware stores have more brewing
hardware than most brew shops. So my buddy (who is just beginning
in the hobby) looks way up to the ceiling on a shelf there,
points, and asks me :
"Would that be any good to you in brewing?"
I look up and my heart nearly stops. There on the top shelf, glowing
like angels from Above, were standing proudly two very large SS
coffee urns. I paused, completely in awe. Staring. The
Angels^H^H^H^H^H^HUrns were staring back from Above, mocking
me. I couldn't get a very close look because they were up so high,
but the front read "Igloo", and the sign read 50litre (12.5gallon) on
one, and 75litre on the other. I didn't have to get a closer look,
though,
since I'd seen them in use recently at a celebration at work. They're
just like a Gott, only SS inside and out. And built to last a loooonnng
time.
[sigh]
The cheap one was $175CDN. The other was just over $200.
One day, they will be mine!
cheers,
-Alan
- --
"Brewers make wort. Yeast makes beer".
-Dave Miller's Homebrewing Guide
http://www.magma.ca/~bodnsatz/brew/tips/
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 16:00:20 -0700
From: Bob <roberts735 at aol.com>
Subject: Red Hook E.S.B.
I recently had the pleasure of drinking a nice Red Hook ESB. I was also
beginning to think about my next batch of beer.
Anyone have a good recipie for a clone of Red Hook ESB? In particular
the yeast srain used here and the hop schedule?
Private replies are great...
TIA
Bob
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:58:20 -0600
From: "Brian Rezac" <brian at aob.org>
Subject: Re: Yeast recc. for Big Brew '98
Dan Cole <dcole at roanoke.infi.net> asked:
>What are your recommendations for a dry yeast for the barley wine recipes?
I'm sure that Rob Moline will respond also, but here is a little "insider
information". The yeast that Rob used for his award-winning recipe was
Nottingham dry yeast. Since that is the one that he won with, and since I
have had the privilege of tasting the result of Rob's efforts, I would
recommend using that strain/product.
One note on the Big "10/20" Barley Wine recipe, with Rob's permission we
"genericized" the recipe to ensure that homebrewers everywhere could
participate with the ingredients from their local homebrew shop. We wanted
to have Rob available on the day of the event to answer specific questions
about his recipe and give brewers the details. I'm now thinking that we
should look into having some information available ahead of time.....Stay
tuned....
Good Luck & Good Beer!
E Pluribus (Br)Unum! - {From Many, One (Brew)!} - Big Brew '98
Brian Rezac
Administrator
American Homebrewers Association
736 Pearl Street, Boulder, CO 80302
brian at aob.org http:/beertown.org
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 19:03:27 -0400
From: Reyna Eisenstark <reyna at eisenstark.com>
Subject: Fruit beer
Here in the Northeast a fortnight past, we experienced a heat wave of
sorts. Thinking my calendar was wrongand it was not March but May I
decided to brew a fruit beer. Only after brewing did I realize fresh
fruit hasn't become available (unless I wanted to pay and pay for
imported mediocre South American fruit). So I resorted to a fruit
extract. The "all-natural" ingredients are vegetable oil, natural
flavors and alpha tocopherol. Upon racking to the 2ndary, I added the
extract. Now I have an oil slick atop my beer.
Have I ruined this batch? Should I re-rack all but the top inch or so to
remove the oil? Or is this OK and normal? Also, if not, what kind of
extract should I use next year around this time when I rush Springtime
again. Needless to say, I'm planning a "real" fruit beer for sometime
later this Spring...
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 19:03:59 -0400
From: Jim Suggs <jvsuggs at mindspring.com>
Subject: Brewing in a dungeon??
Hey there everybody.
I've been an on-again/off-again lurker and infrequent poster
on the HBD since 1990. It's given me a lot to think about,
and has helped to make my beer pretty darn good.
OK, now to the question. I have since moved from a pretty
new house in Georgia to a 115 year-old house in upstate, NY.
I used to brew in my driveway, and ferment in my garage. I
made a couple of Ken Schwartz' Fermentation Chillers, which
worked impressively well.
Here's my current problem. The basement of my house has been
designated as my brewery. My basement is not your pool table
and stereo lounge - it's a full-fledged dungeon. Cobwebs,
rough stone walls, and a little bit of water leakage. It
doesn't smell particularly bad, but it does get a little musty
at times down there.
I've got a few questions. Some of them have an obvious easy
answer: I don't know - get the data yourself, you lazy bastard!
Cut me some slack - I've answered my share of similar questions.
1. Does that musty smell indicate a nasty infection source?
2. My basement is about 7 feet tall, about 5 of which are
underground. What kind of temperature variations
(hour to hour, day to day, and season to season) can
I expect. I've never lived in a house with a base-
ment.
3. Anyone ever rig up a cheap vent hood in a basement?
4. Is there a stellar homebrew supplier in the finger
lakes area? I'm in Corning NY.
5. The water here (especially compared to Georgia) sucks.
Furthermore, I can't get the water department to tell
me Ca++ concentration. Starting with distilled water,
can I just add salts to get to the right mineral profile?
I'd just take the more 'common' ions into account: Ca,
Mg, Na, Cl, CO3, SO4. Is there any important trace ion
that's gonna screw me? If so, can i just try to do a
similar thing with 'drinking' water, which i figure would
be pretty soft?
Thanks for any or all input you could provide. I think I'll go
have another beer. And I promise to stop lurking.
- ----------------------------------
Jim Suggs
Brewer, Chemist, Centerfielder.
jvsuggs at mindspring.com
http://www.mindspring.com/~jvsuggs
- ----------------------------------
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 21:00:03 -0500
From: "Raymond C. Steinhart" <rnr at popmail.mcs.net>
Subject: .08 and Gun Rights
Vacom complains about guns! Those hunters and sportsmen are fighting
the battle of various gun control efforts for the very reason we should
argue against .08. When one's rights are slowly chiseled away at we
ultimately will have no rights at all. Prohibition was a noble attempt
at protecting us from ourselves, what it did was only create more crime
and corruption; poison people with bad booze and make criminals out of
everyday citizens who enjoyed a glass of wine or bottle of beer.
You may want to consider taking up gun sports to familiarize your self
with real gun fire and not firecrackers that are generally used to ring
in the New Year.
And anyone who believes that the Electoral College represents all of the
people is a fool.
- --
My RIM System
"http://www.mcs.net/~rnr"
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:38:29 -0500
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at ames.net>
Subject: The Jethro Gump Report
The Jethro Gump Report
Nystagmus.....
I will copy a private e-mail to complete my observations on this
subject...
>>The tracking test used by the fuzz is (as far as I know) the only type of
>>task where your eye moves smoothly. You can control who appears sober
>>and who appears drunk with this test by the speed at which you ask the
>>subject to track. I'll leave the possibilities up to you.
>
> It always occurred to me, when first tested for this condition by a
>friend in the PD, at a party at his house that this might be the "precursor,"
>to more elaborate testing, meaning the right to search your car, and
person,
>in pursuit of more substantial incriminations.....
> That is, an ability to search anyone with any ETOH on their breath, by
>declaring that they failed the Nystagmus Test......which is a purely
>subjective assessment, and one certainly not oversee-able, even with in car
>video....
>From: Sully <sully at drunkenbastards.org>
>Subject: Nystagmus Testing Myths Debunked
>
>Keep at a legal subject long enough, and the shysters won't be able to
>keep their gobs shut.
As much as the popular press rides on lawyers, I am thankful for the
likes of a few I have known, including Sully, newly introduced to, and Mr.
Bonham.......and Debra Biilingsley, Assistant Attorney General for ABC,
Kansas....
When one engages in the highly regulated field of commercial brewing, or
even that of homebrewing, knowing what is out there is always useful....
Big Brew "98......
It hardly need be said that I have been honoured by the AHA, (of which I
am a member) by their use of my Barleywine Recipe for the inaugural attempt
to make the most simultaneous brew....
I know that long time participants and lurkers will understand that this
recipe has been the subject of just a wee bit of controversy in the
past.....
I had always stated that I would not reveal the recipe, even when asked
by the likes of my esteemed colleague, Fal Allen, when he asked for it,
prior to the brew winning at GABF '96....
But times have changed...the recipe was released by others who really
had no right to do so, IMHO....and then other more scurillous parties
entered the fray....much to the dismay of the HBD, and the entire electronic
community....
If not for the actions of folks like Tomme Arthur, who felt outrage at
the whole deal....and stood up for a fellow brewer, even at a time when that
fellow brewer was completely unknown to him....and who knew that I had no
access to the insult being laid out for me..........
Why, I would never have known what was going on...
If not for assistance by members of the HBD, including certain attorneys
and web folk....I would have been seriously behind the curve......
BUT, here and now, we go into BIG BREW '98....and I truly hope that all that
wish to...get involved.....this being the inaugural year, I only wish that
this years effort makes a splash, to be followed by bigger tsunami's in
subsequent years efforts.....
But here is the recipe for Big 12 Barleywine.......and soon I will lay out
all the recipes for ALL beers ever brewed by myself in a commercial
setting....I hope that they work as well for you as they have for me...
KEEP IN MIND......the inefficiencies of the system I worked on...and the
fact that I have never been a "technical brewer," just a seat of the pants
guy who made beer, and adjusted the next batch in terms of "I need 15 % more
aroma next time,"
So, for all that wish to make the brew....these are original notes for a
7 bbl batch.....
Big 12 Barleywine
Malt
-650 lbs Schreier 2 Row
-50 Lbs DWC Pale Ale
-200 lbs Schreier Caramel 30
Hops
-4 lbs Galena 11.2 %AA at 60 minutes
-5 lbs Cascade 5.5 %AA at 60/60
-5 lbs Willamette 4.7 AA at End of Boil
Mash
-For 7BBL...Strike 158 into 6.25 BBL with 8 oz CaCl2.
-Single Infusion Mash
-Sparge Temperature 174 F to collect 8 BBL.
Boil
-Nominal Boil for 90/60. In any case, dependent upon performance of
individual system, begin boil timing to achieve target gravity of 24
Plato
at End Of Boil.
-4 teaspoons BreakBright at 15/60
-8 teaspoons Yeast Nutrient (Yeastex) at 15/60
-EOB Hops in my system are there for a 20/60 Whirlpool, then a 20/60
Rest,
prior to Chilling.
- Industrial O2 bled thru airstone immediately past the chiller, as
wort
flows to fermenter.
Yeast
-1 Kilogram Lallemand Dry Nottingham Yeast reconstituted in 1.5 Gallon
filtered H2O for 10/60, then Attemperated with 1.25 gallon fresh wort
for
10/60 or until foaming starts to overflow pitching keg. Inject yeast,
with
pressurized industrial O2, into "T" at bottom of uni-tank while chilled
wort is filling unitank.
-Cease yeast injection when last 10 % of slurry is still in pitching
keg.
Add 3 oz Fermcap and resume pitching.
Ferment
-Ferment at 68 F.
-At termination of Fermentation, Drop as much yeast as possible from
bottom of unitank.
-Add 1 Kilogram Lallemand Dry EC-1118 Champagne Yeast, reconstituted,
and
attemperated. Inject with CO2.
Condition
-Prepare Gusmer's DryFine. Add 6 Teaspoons to .75 gallon Cold (<60 F)
Filtered H2O. Blend at High Speed for 2/60. Chill in Cold Room for
20/60.
Blend at High Speed for 2/60. Chill 20/60.
-Prepare Gelatine. Add 8 Teaspoons Jello Unflavored Gelatine to 1 Pint
Cold Filtered H2O. Stir and allow to set at Room Temps for 15/60. Once
set,
add Hot Liquor and stir until solid gelatine goes into a nearly clear
solution.
-Begin gravity transfer to conditioning tank. Blend DryFine one last
time
for 2/60. When sufficient wort has covered the bottom of vessel to
prevent
finings from 'sticking' to vessel, add DryFine and Gelatine. Close
vessel,
and begin pumping. This will ensure adequate blending of finings in
wort
as
tank fills.
-Condition for minimum 4 months. If you have more patience, you will be
rewarded if you allow more conditioning time. My practice has been to
condition with no top pressure, merely a sheet of foil on the CIP
opening
at
top of vessel.
Carbonate
-Prepare 6 Teaspoons DryFine as before. Begin gravity transfer to
serving
vessel. Add DryFine, close vessel, and begin pump transfer to ensure
adequate blending. Carbonate with airstone to desired level of CO2.
Allow
minimum 24/24 for settling of finings. Bleed off sediment on bottom of
vessel in beer path. Attach serving lines and serve
.
Numbers -Design Prediction
-OG 28.25 Plato
-FG 7.5 Plato
-IBU's 35
-Batch 9560, 12.30.95, GABF Winner
-OG 23.9 Plato.
-FG (Ale Yeast) 4.7 Plato.
-FG (EC-1118) 4.1 Plato.
So there you have it...except for the details on an analysis that Siebel
did for me while I was a student there,,,,,
Siebel Analysis of the Original Batch......
SG...1.01599
AE, %, 4.08
RE % 8.10
ABW % 8.92
ABV% 11.45
OE% 24.23
ADA 83.2
RDA 69.4
IBU's 34.5
Don't know what more I can tell you, except for the few "intimate"
details .....
Wish us luck on the BIG BREW Attempt...and I hope that it is as
successful as can be....and that those of you who brew this beer enjoy it as
much as I have....
Jethro Gump
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 20:51:04 -0700
From: "Michael J. Westcott" <mikew at sedona.net>
Subject: Long ferment with Wyeast #3068
Two weeks and one day ago I pitched a 1 qt. starter
of Weihenstephen-3068 into a gravity 1.056 weizen wort
and it is still actively fermenting. This after racking into a
secondary fermenter at 10 days to get the wort off settled trub
and yeast. Initial krausen was massive and this yeast just won't
quit. Gravity at racking was 1.020, I am expecting terminal gravity
to be 1.016. Within an hour after racking, a "new" krausen had formed
and still hasn't dropped. Has anyone else had this experience? What are
the possible negative consequences of this seemingly extended primary
fermentation? I can't find anything related in the HBD archives and I have
contacted Wyeast but have received no response. Ferment temperatures
have been a constant 68 F. This long ferment , if typical, is something I
was
unaware of. Any info would be appreciated.
Thanks, Mike
mikew at sedona.net
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:52:20 -0700
From: Riley <mriley at netcom.com>
Subject: C02 Cylinders
A similar thread about CO2 cylinders came up on
r.c.b. I did some unit conversions and was surprised
that 1 lb. of CO2 will only occupy about 8 cu. ft.
under standard conditions (assuming I didn't make a
mistake in the math). The contents of a 5 lb.
cylinder in a smallish room (1000 cu. ft.) would
then represent about 4% of the volume. Of course,
it's not all going to mix up right away as the
CO2 exiting the cylinder is going to be cool and
dense and pool on the floor.
A question came up, which went unanswered I think,
and that was at what concentrations and exposure
times does CO2 become hazardous?
Mark Riley
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:10:33 EDT
From: MicahM1269 <MicahM1269 at aol.com>
Subject: Cottonwood brewery??
I am looking for some info on the Cottonwood Brewery. I believe that it is in
either North or South Carolina, I can't recall. If anyone has an address,
phone, or e-mail of this place please send it to me. If Kinney Baughman is
still on the HBD contact me at micahm1269 at aol.com
TIA
micah millspaw - brewer at large
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:07:21 -0400
From: Bill Giffin <billg at ctel.net>
Subject: FWH
Top of the morning to yea all,
Al K said:
"I put *all* the hops into the kettle (Saaz pellets in a hop bag) while
running off. "
Perhaps Al's problem with the hop aroma was that the hops were contained in
a hop bag. I have used Saaz hops, 25g, as a first wort hopping, both
pellet and leaf, and the hop aroma was just wonderful with just the right
amount of hop flavor. Did not use a hop bag, never have never will.
A hop bag is not needed or recommended in my opinion. I doesn't allow the
hops to be properly ustilized in the boil.
The moral of the story. Do it correctly and you will get good results.
Bill
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:23:04 -0500
From: results <results at win.bright.net>
Subject: Phils new Philler/Ammonia
I got one of them and immediately modified it. As designed, it works on
a siphon system. Therefore, the bottle that you are filling must be
lower than the beer level in our keg. This gives pretty quiet fills, but
with the diameter of the fill tube, it is seriously slow.
We also found that, as designed, it would probably work better if there
were two CO2 sources rather than one. For some reason, the pressure in
the bottle is always higher than the keg. I suspect this is somehow due
to the pressure drop across the filling line or some such thing. Anyway
it has a tendency to back siphon a little. Not a real big deal tho.
We modified it by taking the CO2 return loop off and venting that with a
needle valve. There is a trick to getting the thing to work quickly
without extra foam: before inserting the filler into the bottle, purge
the fill tube with a quick blast of CO2 (turn the knob to the CO2
position). You might want floor drains for this operation ;-) For some
reason this allows for a black fill at pretty high rates. Without this,
there is a considerable amount of foam generated and you have to fill
very slowly to counter the problem.
Other than that the thing works pretty well. I like the single valve.
- -----
Ammonia at Coors:
When you get to *real* size with your cooling plants, you want to use
ammonia instead of freon or its' substitute. The big places use a lot of
it and it is a serious hazard there.
Wish I had some.
Randy Lee
Viking Brewing Company
Dallas, WI.
http://www.win.bright.net/~results
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Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:41:44 -0500
From: Stephen Rockey <srockey at egyptian.net>
Subject: False bottom problems...
Hello,
I recently started doing all grain brews. I use a converted Gott cooler
to mash my grains. In the bottom, I have a 9 inch false bottom. Each time
(3) I have brewed my sparge gets terribly stuck. Yesterday when I brewed I
checked carefully when I was cleaning out the cooler to try and get the
sparge going, and it appears that the false bottom is floating up when I
put the hot water in the Gott. The grain then gets under the false bottom
and plugs the hole. The directions I have say that I should add water to
the bottom of the Gott before putting any grain in. Can I put the grain in
first? I believe I read that putting the grain in first can cause stuck
sparges. The one time I got the flow to work, all was great, but other
than that I am stumped. Replies are appreciated.
Thanks,
Steve Rockey
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Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:01:16 -0400
From: Lau William WT <william.lau at phwilm.zeneca.com>
Subject: Lactic Acid
I've recently seen posts that include lactic acid as part of a recipe
(e.g. Belgium white). Where do I buy lactic acid?
Private e-mail ok.
Bill Lau
Gloucester County Homebrewers
Gloucester County, NJ
"Good Fellowship...Great Beer"
Bill
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Date: Fri, 10 Apr 98 09:57:59 -0600
From: bob_poirier at adc.com
Subject: Wort Aeration
Back in HBD #2678, I posed the following question about wort aeration:
>Instead of the aeration stone, how about adapting John's flask
>stirrer to work with a carboy, or, with a plastic bucket, for that
>matter?
I've received a few responses regarding this idea, all very helpful -
thanks to those who offered ideas/opinions/facts. 8>)
In HBD #2679, George De Piro offered this advice:
>Yes, this can be done in the fermenter, but you most definitely don't
>want to! Constant agitation of the fermenting wort will promote
>greater yeast growth and faster fermentation. A big brewer tried
>this a while back, and the results almost (or did?) put them out of
>business! That's a pretty big price to pay for saving some time in
>the fermentation cellar. It was either Schaefer of Schlitz...Rob, do
>you remember?
I now know NOT to constantly agitate the wort (after pitching the
yeast), for fear of the production of undesirable fermentation
byproducts.
So, the idea of stirring the wort as a method of aeration is a big
NO-NO!!
However, in my original post, I also stated the following:
>I've recently read something somewhere (Brewery B-Board?) that says
>you should aerate the wort with oxygen via an aeration stone for
>specific lengths of time, at specific intervals, after the yeast is
>pitched, in order to promote healthy yeast.
I've finally managed to locate the original source I was referring to.
Dave Miller writes, in the May/June '93 issue of Brewing Techniques:
>Aerate the pitched wort until foam reaches the top of the fermenter.
>Then, let the foam subside for a few hours and repeat. A few hours
>later, repeat again. The idea is to bubble air through the wort for
>at least 15 min during the first 6-8 h after cooling and pitching.
>It is hard to overestimate the importance of thorough aeration for
>yeast growth. At our brewery, I use a stainless steel version of the
>rig in Figure 1, and our worts start to ferment in 3-8 h.
OK. So it looks like it's a good idea to aerate the wort during the
first 6-8 hours after pitching the yeast. Does anyone out there use
this technique? (Besides Mr. Miller.) ;>)
Also, instead of using pure oxygen, how about using an aquarium air
pump? What kind of filter do you need to use with an air pump?
In the July/August '93 issue of BT, Roy Paris offers a refinement of
the aerator setup previously presented by Dave Miller (BT, May/June
'93). If anyone decides to take a look at these articles, can you
offer any advice or critiques?
TIA!!
Bob Poirier.
bob_poirier at adc.com - private e-mail OK.
Give a man a beer and he will waste the whole day. Teach a man to
brew, and he will waste his whole life!
(I'm not claiming to have created this, but I LIKE IT!! My wife wants
to know how long this homebrewing thing I'm into is going to last.)
>8-(
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Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:03:19 +0000
From: Jim Liddil <jliddil at azcc.arizona.edu>
Subject: infections at home, aeration of water
>From: greg_young at saunderscollege.com
>Subject: Bacterial Worries
>
>And now on to my next question: I've talked to lots of brewers--home and
>brewpub--about the brewing of lambics. The response I usually get is along
>the lines of "sure, go ahead and brew a lambic, as long as you brew it at
>someone else's house with someone else's equipment." This sounds extreme,
In my view it is. IF you follow good cleaning and sanitation procedures
then things will be OK. But it requires diligence on your part to make
sure you do a good job and use proper sanitizer concentrations and exposure
times.
Can any of the people who know water chemistry discuss the letter in the
lastest BT about aeration of water, calcium carbonate precipitation and
chlorine dioxide?
Jim Liddil Tucson, AZ
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Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:02:15 -0400
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: Cross Brewery Infections
Greg Young asks about infecting his normal brewing equipment and beers
with bacteria and yeast from sour mashs and lambics. From my experience
which includes sour mashes, lambic brewing and just about all other
styles of ales and lagers, is that with care in keeping brewing
equipment clean and sanitary, one can do all of this without cross
contamination. So far, knock on wood, I've not had infections where
they weren't desired. My only problems have been where I've used yeast
acquired from questionable sources. Thoroughly clean then sanitize
prior to and after use and you can participate in all aspects of brewing
without worry.
Dave Houseman
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Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:40:11 -0400
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Sour mash, lambics
Brewsters:
Greg Young asks if a sour mash can provide bacteria which
will be difficult to remove from your equipment. The answer
is "yes" if you don't sterilize or at least pasteurize the added
sour mash before you add it to your fermentation. Remember
the whole point of AlK insisting that we do not use the word
"sterilize" for our normal cleaning activity is that there are still
some bugs hanging around, George De Piro's comment that
normal cleaning activity ( sanitizing) will dispense with these
unwanted creatures, to the contrary.
In his book "Lambic" Guinard says on page 113:
"*A word of caution for Microbrewers*
If you cannot afford a separate fermentation and conditioning
set-up to brew lambic style beers, it is best to give up the idea.
Introducing a host of microorganisms other than your own
Saccharomyces brewing strain into the brewery is very risky
business. These "wild" organisms spread very easily into
pumps, hoses, tanks where they do not belong. This point
cannot be stressed enough, especially at times when
contamination is the main concern of microbrewers."
Although he was focussing on microbreweries where the
problem is multiplied by the variety of contact surfaces and the
potential economic damage a contaminated brewery will have,
the same basic principles apply to homebrewers.
If you are going to ferment lambics, Berliner Weisse and
other beers with microorganisms other than the Saccharomyces
you desire in most beers, it is better to have a separate set
of equipment for this fun activity.
However, all is not lost as you can prepare the acid separately
by a sour mash for Dry Stouts and Berliner Weisse and then
sterilize ( pressure cooker) or pasteurize it to just under a boil
or at least 160F for 10 minutes, covered, to reduce the
bacterial population before you add it to your beer. Alternatively
( although you give up desirable and undesirable cogener
flavors) adjust the acidity with lactic acid, at least at first, to
get an idea of how much acid you want in your beers.
Classical Lambics, of course, cannot be made in this way
since they require two years of sequential fermentation by
various yeasts and bacteria.
Should you choose to ignore the above warnings and
comments, I do believe that *strong* bleach and attention
to details will obviously clean up the simple equipment most
of us use. Depending on how careful you are and your ability to
disassemble your equipment will in a large part determine
your ability to produce unsoured beer in future batches.
My point is, why risk it? Sterilizing or pasteurizing the sour
mash or using lactic acid will prevent such contamination.
Keep on brewin'
Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Dave_Burley at compuserve.com
Voice e-mail OK
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Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:38:29 -0600
From: "Brian Rezac" <brian at aob.org>
Subject: Re: HBD Post on Big Brew '98
An HBD subscriber, in a private message to me, wrote:
>Might I suggest (for future reference) that this posting could have been
>shortened considerably by merely pointing "interested persons" to a web
>site containing all the pertinent information and materials? My
>PageDown key works as good as anyone's, I guess, but it just seemed an
>excessive use of bandwidth to me. IMHO.
This subscriber is right. Actually, that is how I did it when I posted it
previously.
If you read the posting, Big Brew '98 - Update, you'll see that I had a hard
drive crash on my computer and I lost all the information on the "interested
persons" who had already responded. This isn't an excuse, though. I guess
I was just a little panicked about losing this information with such a short
time remaining to the day of the event. My intentions were not to abuse the
privilege of participating in the HBD, but rather to ensure that everyone
who is interested in Big Brew '98 has enough time to get organized to
participate
I apologize for the excessive use of the HBD bandwidth. In the future, I
will keep this in check.
Sincerely,
Brian Rezac
Administrator
American Homebrewers Association
736 Pearl Street, Boulder, CO 80302
brian at aob.org http:/beertown.org
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Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:49:51 -0400
From: antnee56 at juno.com
Subject: Fermentap
Hi , I'v been thinking about purchasing a product called Fermentap, it
holds a fermenting carboy in a inverted postion and is supposed to
facilitate Yeast harvesting and allows you to transfer wort without a
siphon. I would appreciate anyones comments on this product.
Happy Brewing , Tony in Trenton ,N.J.
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
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Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:23:28 -0600 (MDT)
From: Kenneth Sullivan <kenneth.sullivan at Central.Sun.COM>
Subject: CO2 gas detectors
CO2 gas is both our friend and our foe. I am looking for a CO2 gas detector
which will alarm if the CO2 levels become too high. I have a closed basement
room where I will brewing, using an electric RIMS and a NG boiling burner.
This is also the same room where I will be fermenting and lagering my precious
bier. I would like to find a CO2 detector that will activate a vent when
levels get dangerous or at least alarm. THe guys at home depot thought I was
nuts asking for a CO2 detector verses a CO detector. My initial search on the
web revealed nothing. Pointers anyone??
Ken Sullivan, Kernel Support Engineer
Sun MicroSystems Customer Call Center
Broomfield, Colorado 80020
(303) 464-4633
kjsulli at central.sun.com
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Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:46:00 -0700
From: "Mike Allred" <allred at malnove.com>
Subject: hop disease
I just want to let you all know how much I appreciate all the help I
received from you all HBD people with my hop disease question. Special
thanks to Tom Herlache from Cornell who is sending me a culture to
prevent this from happening to my other plants. I guess I have what is
called crown gall. Thanks also to Jackie from Sieble.
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Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 18:36:16 GMT
From: huskers at olywa.net (Jason Henning)
Subject: re: well thermometers
Hello-
Mike Spinelli is looking to add a thermometer to his mash tun. I just
bought a thermometer and well from Trend. About the only thing you can
expect about these folks is quick responses, courteous sales staff, high
quality parts and timely delivery. In other words, I am a very satisfied
with their service and products.
I ordered a 3" dual scale thermometer with a 4" probe. I also bought a
matching threaded thermowell. The thermometer was $26, the well was $15
and shipping (from PA to WA) was $7. They have a similar 3" thermometer
without a calibration screw for $21. 5" models with and without cal
screw are $38 and $35. There are lots of options for the dials and stems
too.
I ordered mine on April 1st and was promised it would ship no later than
the 9th. I received it on the 9th!
Anyway they have a web page at http://www.trendinst.com. You can request
catalogs from their pages. Their number is 800-431-0002 and are located
in West Chester, PA. That's just west of Philly. Isn't that your area
Mike?
No affiliation blah blah blah.
Cheers,
Jason Henning <huskers olywa net>
Big Red Alchemy and Brewing
Lacey, Washington
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Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:47:57 -0500
From: "Joel Plutchak" <joel at bolt.atmos.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Re: Bacterial Worries
In HBD #2684, Greg Young wrote:
> And now on to my next question: I've talked to lots of brewers--home and
> brewpub--about the brewing of lambics. The response I usually get is along
> the lines of "sure, go ahead and brew a lambic, as long as you brew it at
> someone else's house with someone else's equipment." This sounds extreme,
> but the reason for the fear is because apparently the bacterial strains
> used aren't so easy to banish once you let them loose, resulting in many
> batches of sour beer. My question is, should the same concerns be heeded
> when performing a sour mash?
I have just anecdotal evidence. After reading Dennis Davison's
_Zymurgy_ article on Berliner Weisse about 16 months ago, I did a
sour mash light wheat beer, using my standard equipment and
fermentation location. None of my subsequent beers have soured,
even after 5 months in the bottle (which is about as long as I
manage to keep homebrew around).
I have a related question. If you wanted to enter a sour
mash wheat beer that approximates the stylistic characteristics
of a Berliner Weisse in a homebrew competition, would you enter is
as a specialty (special technique being use of a sour mash) or
as a Berliner Weiss?
- --
Joel Plutchak
Boneyard Brew-Off, June 13 1998
http://starfire.ne.uiuc.edu/buzz/contest4.html
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Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:17:04 -0700
From: Kit Anderson <kitridge at bigfoot.com>
Subject: Extract wit
I was having an off list discussion about an extract based wit.
"Impossible", says I. "Nobody make unmalted wheat extract."
Then a little voice said, "King Arthur does."
Egads! Plain old white flour. Of course!
Has anyone tried adding wheat flour to the kettle?
I'm thinking 50% extra light DME, 50% wheat extract and 1/4 cup (or
more?) of flour.
- --
Kit Anderson ICQ# 2242257
Bath, Maine <kitridge at bigfoot.com>
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Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:06:35 -0800
From: Deb Jolda <editor at brewtech.com>
Subject: Re: BT & Upcoming Stuff
At 1:49 PM -0500 4/6/98, Louis K. Bonham wrote:
> Finally, a word on the latest round of BT bashing. Regardless of the
> veracity of the complaints regarding the Kolsch article, I can tell you
> that the editors of BT do read the HBD and are committed to producing a
> high quality publication. An example: I recently passed along to BT a
> comment by Dr. Farnsworth that he had used a recent (1997) BT article in
> his brewing technology course at UTSA as an exam question ("Find the
> errors in this article"). Rather than get angry or insulted, Deb Jolda
> (BT Managing Editor) did the right thing -- she quickly got in touch
> with Dr. Farnsworth to get his thoughts on how to improve their
> editorial process. (One upshot of this is that Dr. Paul will be
> reviewing some BT articles to help catch things that might creep in the
> late in the editorial process.) Certainly, nobody is perfect, but the
> folks at BT *do* listen to your comments and take them *very*
> seriously! So rather than just complain about it, why not do
> something? If you're an expert in a particular area or field, write BT
> and volunteer to peer review upcoming articles in your area of
> expertise.
Thanks for the support, Louis. I do wish that more people would take their
comments and complaints to us directly before venting publicly. Oh well.
Can't please everyone, eh?
So what else have you heard about the Kolsch article? I only saw one note
in the HBD about it. I'd like to respond publicly to that guy, but it would
help to know what else, if anything, has been said. The author turned that
article out very quickly for us as a favor, and it passed review just fine.
Yes, there was more to be said. Yes, the focus was more on straight
pragmatism than many of our past styles articles (i.e., suggesting the use
of different malts, etc.). Optimally, I like to provide as much information
as possible so that brewers can decide for themselves which shortcuts
they're willing to take. But as Stephen (continually) admonishes me, it's
not necessary, or should I say, it's not realistic to try to make every
article into a compleat treatise on a given topic.
Later,
Deb
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