HOMEBREW Digest #2715 Sat 16 May 1998

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Disagree ("John Watts")
  Bru-Head heading compound (Mark Hillman)
  Eurosealer/ Latest BT? ("RANDY ERICKSON")
  Hoppy Deer, Outatown ("David R. Burley")
  Alternative RIMS heating? Was: RE: Confusion over delta T (Wim Hielkema)
  Copper and oxygen (Al Korzonas)
  Adding yeast to Barleywines (Al Korzonas)
  channeling (Al Korzonas)
  Pasteurization Question and Wit beer (Golgothus)
  Freezer Conversion (Chuck Cubbler)
  re: All Grain Blues ("Michel J. Brown")
  Oops - oatmeal stout update (Spencer W Thomas)
  Head Retention Problem (Robert Arguello)
  AHA Questions (by way of David Houseman <dhousema at cccbi.chester.pa.us>)
  Beer flavor kits (Jeremy Bergsman)
  Quayle (Fred Kingston)
  DMS a brewing fault? (Bill Giffin)
  Red Barrel (oberlbk)
  Question ("David Johnson")
  Where to find a good wort pump .. .. .. (Bradd Wheeler)
  Hops and Deer (Chas Peterson)
  This and that... ("Schultz, Steven W.")
  Dr Pivo, Oxidation, Dan the Q, Of Ales and Esters and U hop it. (James Tomlinson)
  Strawberry Haze (Charley Burns)
  Mark Your Calenders! (John Adams)
  Re: Flavor-Spiking Kits ("Mark Nelson")
  New AHA event... (Some Guy)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 05:59:00 -0500 From: "John Watts" <watts at top.net> Subject: Disagree EFOUCH wrote "The HBD has a few rotating threads that get beaten to death periodically: Boiling ferocity, propane vs natural gas, hops toxicity, etc.- which reminds me- the botulism thread is about due." Sorry Eric, the evils/benefits of canning wort thread is first, then the botulism. Freezing to increase/decrease alcohol gets worked in as well. ;) Tim, Speaking from the vast experience of 1 all grain batch (the Palexperiment), go for it! Try a simple infusion and you'll be amazed how easy it is. My only suggestion would be to spend the bucks for a 10 gallon mash tun. I converted my old 5 gallon kettle to a tun, and am already looking for something larger! Hoppy Brewing! John Watts watts at top.net Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 12:05:54 -0400 From: Mark Hillman <mhillman at ebtech.net> Subject: Bru-Head heading compound Hi, We tried using a little heading compound on last nights batch. The directions said to mix in hot water then add to bottling bucket. When we mixed it up it went all lumpy with little jelly floaties in it. This being the first time using this stuff we're wondering if this is normal or if we're missing something. Any tips? Mark Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 09:28:50 -0700 From: "RANDY ERICKSON" <RANDYE at mid.org> Subject: Eurosealer/ Latest BT? From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> Subject: hop suppliers >>> Note that if you buy more than a pound it will come in a non-oxygen-barrier bag, so you better buy some O2-barrier bags (and one of those Eurosealers at Walgreens!). <<< I wondered about this when I saw it on TV. Is the Eurosealer adequate for sealing barrier bags? They're pretty cheap, they're portable, and sound like just what we need! ******************************************* I'm still waiting for the March/April issue of Brewing Techniques that got delayed by problems in the computer system. Is anyone else still waiting, or have you all received yours? Randy in Modesto Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 13:38:40 -0400 From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Hoppy Deer, Outatown Brewsters: Like Doug Moyer I live in the midst of out-of-control deer who decimate all plants, shrubs and trees less than 6 feet high. These deer have virtually destroyed the woodlands of Northern New Jersey for future generations by eating all of the young trees. I have seen it happen over the last decade and a half, living as I do in the woods and mountains of New Jersey. We have many tales like his of deer ignoring the presence of humans while happily munching thousands of dollars worth of ornamentals. Sadly this is just as painful for the deer who are now starving and forced to eat shrubs which they would not touch ten or even two or three years ago. Anyway, after trying all the useless suggestions like hanging human hair, soap and sprays of bone meal, etc.I have found that the only way to permanently prevent deer attacks ( and they will ) on shrubs and hop vines is with bird netting. I built a fence from bird netting to surround the hops growing area and it has worked great. This netting is available at your garden store, is black and fine enough that it is not easy to see from a distance and it does the job winter and summer, rain or shine. - ----------------------------------- I'll be outatown for most of the next three weeks. So I am not ignoring any e-mail, and will respond when I can Keep on brewin' Dave Burley Kinnelon, NJ 07405 103164.3202 at compuserve.com Dave_Burley at compuserve.com Voice e-mail OK Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 19:50:57 +0200 From: Wim Hielkema <betonh at xs4all.nl> Subject: Alternative RIMS heating? Was: RE: Confusion over delta T rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) wrote: >If you want something really different, try this: > >Use a stainless steel coil as the heating chamber, with the mash liquid >and pump connection by non conducting plastic tubing, then power the >coil with high amperage low voltage AC current. Hey, now that's a great idea. I'm currently in the process of constructing a RIMS (well, actually it's still on the drawing board) and was wondering about what would be a good heater construction. Your idea obviously has great advantages with respect to constructing a heater chamber with a 'standard' heating element, i.e. a simple length of tubing is all you need instead of a chamber with appropriate fittings welded to it for inlet/outlet tubing and the end caps for the heater element. >You will probably need to rewind a transformer by changing the secondary >winding to a very large single or several turn conductor, then this will >connect to your stainless heating coil. I once played around with a >transformer like this, with a few turns on the secondary, could make a >coat hanger glow bright red! You will need to experiment, with a lot of >cut and try, and maybe get an electrician to assist in the design. You >can start by finding some high power battery charger, or an old welding >transformer as the source for a transformer to rewind. Why not wind the heating coil directly round the transformer and let it act as secondary winding itself? You can use a large piece of copper, either clamped or welded to minimize resistance, to short circuit beginning and end of the coil. Expect currents ranging from 100 up to 1000 Ampere or more to flow through the secondary, depending on the material used (stainless steel or copper), tube diameter, length and wall thickness. Electrical losses in the secondary windings will be minimized this way. The only problem I see with this construction is regulating the power of this system. The only way to electronically control such a system is by regulating the primary voltage. Transformers have nasty habit of drawing high transient currents upon switching on so PID controllers, which control power by switching on and off at regular intervals, are no option. The electronics will probably be fried the first time power is switched on. You'll need some sort of continuous voltage regulation at the primary side with current limiting on startup (softstart). A large triac dimmer will probably suffice (think 1 - 2.5 KW) although I'm not sure how the transformer will handle the chopped sinusoid at low input voltages (loss of efficiency, high transient voltages generated in the primary). Bye, Wim. - -- Wim Hielkema, Homebrewer & WebWizard, Amsterdam, The Netherlands betonh at xs4all.nl, http://www.xs4all.nl/~betonh/beer/beer.html "Give me beer OR give me death" - Al Bundy Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 12:51:44 -0500 (CDT) From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> Subject: Copper and oxygen Scott Perfect and I had been discussing a number of issues offline and he send me a copy of a post John Palmer submitted a few years ago regarding the removal of surface lead from brass fittings. I'll repost it here because it's pretty small and maybe a good thing to keep in mind when assembling a system. I would edit it down to just the important bits, but when talking about lead, often people get a little paranoid and I think the levelheaded tone of the post may be lost if I edit it too much. Here's the post: Posting 3: Extracted from file: 1791 Date: 24 Jul 1995 14:16:36 U From: "Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com> Subject: RE: Brass, FDA vs. AOB Dion Wrote: >OK, John, so how do you react to the blurb in BT about the FDA >"outlawing" brass in contact with food pH < 7 ? (page 12, v3n4). Is >this just another one of the FDAs, "Well, we're not sure so we'll just >disallow it" cover their ass schemes?? >I use a small number of brass fittings and have always basically >agreed with you in regard to this issue. I still am not going to >worry, but maybe the FDA has some "proof" behind their "guidelines". >What is really crazy is that this applies to "copper and copper >alloys". I can maybe understand a cause for concern of lead in brass, >but pure copper??? As a matter of fact: I had been contacted by Jim Neighbors of AOB (not Gomer) to help prepare an Alert and information sheet that was sent out to many concerned parties. I provided references from the ASM Metals Handbook explaining under what conditions Copper and Copper alloys would be dissolved by acidic solutions. The upshot is that beer does not corrode copper or copper alloys by itself. It can act as a electrolyte for galvanic corrosion, but so can tap water. The reason for the FDA Alert is that copper can cause heavy metal poisoning when dissolved into food or water and ingested in mass quantities. So will lead, cadmium, and lots of other metals. This IS a case where the FDA has taken a legitimate concern and expanded it to an illegitimate solution. They would better serve the public by explaining that low pH foods and liquid will dissolve copper under oxidizing conditions. If you were to whip beer full of air, then it would dissolve copper. (Matter of fact, if you were to oxygenate your wort in a copper vessel, you would dissolve a lot more than normal beer would.) The same holds true for other acidic foods. Beer that has not been aerated or beer that is post fermentation carbonated will not significantly corrode copper (no oxygen). By the way, for those of you who are relatively new to the HBD, brass does contain lead as an aid to machining properties. During the machining of brass, the lead becomes smeared over the machined surface, where it can be gradually dissolved by acidic solutions. We are talking about minute amounts (micrograms) smeared over small surface areas. I do not consider it a threat. Nevertheless, it can be removed by a soak for 10-15 minutes in grocery store white distilled vinegar and common hydrogen peroxide, mixed in a 2:1 volume ratio of vinegar to peroxide. The brass will turn a buttery gold color as it cleans. If the solution turns green, then you have gone a bit too long and the copper is starting to dissolve. John J. Palmer - Metallurgist for MDA-SSD M&P Okay, so I read this and something popped into my head that I hadn't though of the first time I read it. Currently, my standard kettle procedure is: 1. boil the wort 2. near the end of the boil, dunk airstone and its silcone hose into kettle, 3. insert copper immersion chiller into kettle 4. turn off heat 5. chill to pitching temperature 6. turn off the chiller water and turn on the oxygen 7. open the valve and run the wort into carboys Now, in the light of that earlier post, what's wrong with this picture? Yes... I'm oxidising my copper wort chiller! While it's unlikely that this is problem (the yeast will probably eat all the copper that gets dissolved into the wort), it would be easy for me to reduce the dissolution of copper into the wort simply by removing the immersion chiller before turning on the oxygen... It's probably absolutely safe both ways, but you may want to consider changing your procedures in this way also. Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 13:29:38 -0500 (CDT) From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> Subject: Adding yeast to Barleywines I wrote: >I would just keep adding >more of the original pitching yeast every time the fermenter starts >to slow down (within reason). This read a lot worse in HBD than it did when I wrote it. I don't recommend adding yeast over and over... what I mean is, once the fermentation of your Barleywine has slowed to, say, 1 bubble per three minutes, rack it into a secondary and try adding a *little* more of the same yeast you pitched initially. See if the fermentation restarts (more than just the increased airlock activity from the racking itself which could last 12 hours). If you don't get any more fermentation, consider if your attenuation is reasonable (you did take a hydrometer reading when you racked to the secondary, right?) for the yeast you used. If there is no activity, then don't worry... let it sit in the secondary for 6 months and then force-carbonate or bottle. It's a good idea to add a little more yeast at bottling time along with the primings. A common thing to do is to underprime Barleywines a little because they often have a little more fermentable sugar remaining after a few months in the fermenter and this remaining sugar will boost your carbonation level. I've even heard from some brewers who don't prime their Barleywines at all, relying on that residual fermentable sugar for the carbonation (it takes the better part of a year to get fermentation like this and you have to bottle a little earlier than six months... personally, I think it's a tad risky and prefer to really let it ferment out in the fermenters). If there is some activity, then let that go to completion and *think* about doing it again when it slows down, *BUT* I don't recommend racking to a tertiary... I think a secondary should be plenty and the added risk of oxidation is not worth the benefit. My last two Barleywines spent 9 months in the *primary* with no ill effects. I don't think a fourth addition of yeast would be any benfit and I would only consider a third addition if the second addition really showed a lot of activity (it probably won't). Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 13:39:15 -0500 (CDT) From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> Subject: channeling Markus writes: >cut the grain >with a long bread knife in a criss-cross pattern about 4 inches deep every >5 minutes or so, it avoids channeling, helps to avoid stuck mashes and >improves extraction a bit. I personally feel that this is debatable... depending on your system, crush, malt, runoff rate, etc., it may *decrease* channeling or it may *increase* channeling. I've never cut my grain bed and have never (in 150+ allgrain batches) had a set (stuck) mash, so it certainly isn't a required procedure. Experimenting with cutting the grain bed on *YOUR* system is the only way to tell if it will be an improvement or not and, incidentally, it may help on your decoction mashed brews nad hinder on your infusion mashed ones, or it may help only on brews with a lot of wheat or rye in them... Lots of experimentation and specifics are needed before we can make some generalised statements about the benefits of cutting the grain bed. Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 15:17:45 EDT From: Golgothus <Golgothus at aol.com> Subject: Pasteurization Question and Wit beer Hello all: Recently I brewed a Belgian Wit from extract (don't try this at home kids ... way too dark for the style) and as I ended up with more wort than planned, I decided to experiment. (I went crazy with the fermentables and had to add over a gallon of water to achieve an OG of 1.050) I reserved one gallon of wort at cooling time and allowed it to cool slowly in an open vessel, in an attempt to achieve spontaneous fermentation... A roaring success ... by morning it was bubbling merrily along and produced mounds of blow-off. After three days, I added a cup of kraeusen from the mother batch, to help slow the acidifiers. The resulting wort (at 20 days) is VERY acidic and tart... I was wondering if it might be possible to pasteurize the resulting brew and add it back to the original batch to increase the acidity of the beer. I like the tang associated with weiss and would like to see it in this p-Wit (so to speak, as it's way too dark and way too spiced ... live and learn) without infecting the whole batch with the acidic beasties. The single gallon is too acidic on it's own, but if I could stop the growth while adding it to the five gallons of non-acidified brew, then I think the flavor of the batch would be much improved. The single gallon in question is in a one gallon apple juice jug. If I suspended it in a pot with water at boiling temp removed from heat ... what temp would I need to achieve and for how long would it need to be applied to pasteurize the brew in question? I would be greatly disappointed if the acidifiers survived to ruin the whole batch. I am new to the concept of home pasteurization (except for a little work with canning jellies) and would appreciate any and all comments on this idea ... as I plan to bottle on my off day next week. TIA, Michael Whitt Brewster and Wandering Philosopher (Currently) Bragi's Brewery Mobile Alabama "He who lives by the skull, will die by the skull." Golgothus at aol.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 17:17:11 -0400 From: Chuck Cubbler <chuck at maguire.com> Subject: Freezer Conversion A guy wants to sell me a small chest freezer. Price is pretty good. Is it possible to convert for use as a refridge, for lagering or maybe just to give my wife room for food in the kitchen fridge??? It seems to me that I ould just set the thermo to the warmest (or least cold) setting. If this is too cold, I guess I could use the thermo from a fridge or other temp control. Anyone done this before?? I'm pretty handy with this kind of stuff but I fear I may be opening a can of worms and should just forget it. Thanks for any advice..... Chuck Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 13:23:29 -0700 From: "Michel J. Brown" <homemade at spiritone.com> Subject: re: All Grain Blues Eric Fouch said in HBD#2713: "Make an Oktoberfest with ale yeast." In fact, there's a splendid online description of doing this very self same thing at the Real Beer Page (BT article). Try pointing your browser to the web page below: http://www.brewingtechniques.com/library/styles/1_2style.html Sounds like heresy, but that didn't stop Kurt and Rob Widmer from doing just that! "Brew by the seat of your pants." Brewing Butt beer Eric? TTYAL, God Bless, and ILBCNU! Dr. Michel J. Brown, D.C. homemade at spiritone.com http://www.spiritone.com/~homemade/index.shtml "In the field of observation, chance favors only the prepared mind" L. Pasteur Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 17:43:07 -0400 From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu> Subject: Oops - oatmeal stout update I really remembered my oatmeal stout recipe wrong. Here's the real thing: 5.5# DWC Pale malt 0.5# M&F Roast Barley 0.25# "Black" malt (it was unlabeled, so it might have been very dark chocolate, and I'm pretty sure it wasn't roast barley.) 0.5# DWC CaraMunich malt 0.5# DWC CaraPilsner malt 18oz Quaker "quick" oats Single infusion mash at ~152F 1oz E Kent Goldings at 6.5% 60min .5oz " :15 .5oz " :0 about 5 gallons (probably a bit less) at 1.050 Pitch YCKC "Strathcona" yeast from 900ml starter at 68F, Ferment 7 days at 60F, transfer to carboy (1.030) 6 days in carboy, transfer to keg (1.018) I think it's really yummy, easily the best stout I've made. It's got a luscious roasty aroma, with a bit of fruit, and is dry and fruity in the mouth with a nicely balanced bitterness. It could be a touch sweeter, perhaps, but I'm picking nits. =Spencer Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:55:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Arguello <robertac at calweb.com> Subject: Head Retention Problem Hi all, I am hopeful that some of you may have suggestions for improving a situation that I am having trouble with. I brew a Chimay clone that I call "Chimay-be-Not". The beer makes me happy in every way except head RETENTION. While the beer has proper carbonation level, and the initial head is nice and moussey/creamy, it dissapates quickly, nor does it leave "lace" on the glass. My glassware is always scrupulously clean, and I have tried a number of fixes but have had no luck. This beer usually earns 34 to 37 points in competitions, but I generally lose 2 or more points due to poor head retention. Please take a look at the recipe and procedures below and see if you have any suggestions. I would rather not add any wheat to the grain bill, and I certainly don't want to use any "heading compounds". All of my other beers are carbonated in the same way and have generally similar mashing procedures...they all exhibit excellent head formation and retention. Here is the recipe... GRAIN BILL/Fermentables: British Pills Malt 9 lbs American Crystal 120L .5 lbs Belgium Munich 4 lbs Flaked Barley .5 lbs Belgium Candy sugar 1 lbs HOP BILL: Styrian Goldings 1.3 oz (60 min) Styrian Goldings .7 oz (30 min) Saaz 1.0 oz (10 min) YEAST: I normally use cultured Chimay yeast, but have also used Wyeast 1214 and WhiteLabs Belgium. The mash includes: protein rest at 133 F for 20 min. (NOTE: I have tried omitting the protein rest and I have tried longer protein rests) Sugar rest at 153 F for 90 min. Mash Out at 167 F for 15 min. Sparge: 165 deg F for 60 to 80 minutes. This beer, as are all my others, is brewed in my RIMS system. I treat my water for proper pH and mineral content, don't oversparge, (I stop collecting when the runnings fall below 1.015), I use Irish Moss just as I do in every other beer that I brew. I don't fine this beer at all except the kettle finings. OG 1.080 FG 1.012 1 week in primary 5 weeks in secondary Ferment at 64 deg F (NOTE: I have tried higher temps..too many banana esters) I normally keg the beer, force carbonate and then a week later bottle using a CP filler. All of my beers are likewise carbonated and often CP bottled with no head retention problems. I have also tried priming the brew, that resulted in only fair carbonation and poor head retention. Any ideas or suggestions? "All In A Day's Wort" Robert Arguello robertac at calweb.com CORNY KEGS FOR SALE! $12.00 each See them at http://www.calweb.com/~robertac/keg.htm Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 00:27:02 -0400 From: David Houseman <dhousema at cccbi.chester.pa.us> (by way of David Houseman <dhousema at cccbi.chester.pa.us>) Subject: AHA Questions I'd like to ask some questions of the HBD "membership" and get private replies rather than start a thread on this brewing forum. I am a member of the AHA Board of Advisors. The AHA does in fact ask its BoA members for their input and advice and they do listen. We will be meeting at the National Homebrew Conference in July in Portland. As a way of "representing" the homebrewing community, albeit informally, I'd like to understand in more depth the issues some of you have with the AHA as well as the positive feelings that many have towards the AHA. To do that I'd like to ask some questions and get responses from those that subscribe to HBD. In fact I'd like to get these to a broader audience of brewers but that's not practical for me. As I said, private replies, please. 1) Are you a member of the AHA? How long have you been brewing? What level of brewer (kit, extract/specialty grain, all grain) are you? 2) If you are a member, what value do you perceive from the AHA? 3) If you are not a member, why not? 4) If membership in the AHA were available separate from a subscription to Zymurgy, would that encourage you join the AHA? 5) What additional benefits from the AHA would you like to receive? Remember that there will be costs associated with most activities. 6) What could the AHA do for your club? New brewers? Experienced brewers? 7) What do you perceive as problems with the AHA as it you know it? 8) What changes in the AHA would encourage you to join if you are not already a member of the AHA? Thank you for the bandwidth. David Houseman Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 23:16:10 -0700 From: Jeremy Bergsman <jeremybb at leland.Stanford.EDU> Subject: Beer flavor kits ALAN KEITH MEEKER <ameeker at welchlink.welch.jhu.edu> writes: > Jeremy Bergsman mentions an "Off flavors spiking kit" from Seibel that > he'd used to spike into Budweiser for the purpose of practicing the > identification of such compounds as DMS and acetaldehyde in beer. This > sounds like a great idea! Does anyone out there have any info about such > kits? Are they commercially available? I did not write that. I have built such a kit myself from standard chemical supply houses. If you don't care about doing esters, you can get most of what you'd want for around $150. Esters and a few other goodies can boost you up to $400+. Note that due to the incredibly small amount that you use to doctor a beer, this much money buys you enough to doctor hundreds or thousands of bottles of beer with each flavor. I thought about offering samples for a nominal fee to cover postage, packaging, and effort. However, a license to do so where I live is over $200/year, and given that there is also some legal liability I suppose, I have decided not to do so. A few local clubs could get together, find someone with a business license, and build their own kit. I have done this in my area, and if you live in an area with a good brewpub, or good skiing, or ... and would like to fly me out .... Note that some of the good ones you can already do, like skunk and oxidation, also sweet, salty, astringent, .... Also some beers come with built-in doctorings, like Bud's acetaldehyde. See Jay Hersh's document in the Judge Digest Archives for ideas. If anyone is interested, I could type up my findings for good doses. I have seen one such kit advertised. Actually a local brewshop owner showed me a solicitation from the manufacturer for him to be a retailer. It was from the UK and it looked very suspicious to me. First, all of the substances were powders, even though the way I see it many of them cannot exist in that state. Also there were some strange things, like I think that there was both "catty" and "skunked" which I thought mean the same thing. There was a good number of flavors, but many were ones like sweet and skunk that you can do yourself. All they really offer in those is the correct dose which you can find by asking me, reading the document I refer to above, or by your own experiment. I should think an advanced homebrew shop that already has a repacking license and liability insurance (?) could make a little money here.... (Anyone need a consultant?) Drunken Bastard Sully writes: > I realized that what I was perceiving as an > aromatic "sweet" was in fact what other people were perceiving as > "cooked corn." So I recalibrated my descriptors. I should have mentioned this, thanks. I actually believe that I can taste 4VG for example, but I am less sensitive to it than typical and it tastes nothing like clove. My hypothesis is that most compounds are likely to activate more than one receptor, and likely at different doses. For example you might have a clove receptor that binds 4-VG (and eugenol) and a rubbery phenolic receptor that also binds 4-VG, but not as well. So most people only get clove since that receptor is really going by the time the phenolic receptor is binding 4-VG. I'm -/- for the clove receptor (except I can smell eugenol, so I guess I'd better change that part) so I only get 4-VG through the other receptor. Sully lacks the corn receptor, but has the same receptor that causes other people to think DMS is sweet. Sully, try this: massive amounts of DMS = rotting crabs! I actually got this level in a homebrew comp one time. I have done 2,3 butane dione (diacetyl) and 2,3 pentane dione quite a bit and the different descriptors people use is really surprising. Butter, honey, butterscotch, slickness on the tongue, .... I also believe this accounts for the different perceptions with different doses. I saw an article on this using the VDKs and honeybees, I think in Neuron (a neuroscience journal), about a year back. Sorry for the length and all the elipses. - -- Jeremy Bergsman jeremybb at leland.stanford.edu http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~jeremybb Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 07:38:56 -0400 From: Fred Kingston <Fred at KingstonCo.com> Subject: Quayle Dr. Pivo writes: as to John Wilkinson's: >Now I know who Dr. Pivo is. >Dan Quayle. >Now, THAT was funny. (BTW, I'm a bit unsure, but he's a popularly >elected American official, isn't he?) Dear Dr, Dan Quayle might be more appropriately described as " a less popularly elected American official, that rode the coat tails of another popularly elected official into office and was subsequently determined to have been a dullard, an idiot... and a pompous ass..." I wouldn't consider the comparison in _any_ form, complimentary. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 07:53:37 -0400 From: Bill Giffin <billg at ctel.net> Subject: DMS a brewing fault? Top of the morning to yea all, DMS is listed in many of our brewing books as a flaw and something to avoid. Yet if your beer has no DMS it probably is a pretty poor beer. May not even be beer. DMS CONTENT OF BEERS (ppb) British Ales 14 British lagers 16-27 Continental lagers 44-114 German lagers 32-205 (av.94) Canadian Ale 92 Canadian lager 114 United States 59-106 The flavor threshold for DMS is around 30 ppb, some folks can taste DMS at lower levels and some don't notice the flavor until a much higher level. Sully said: "I was embarassed enough to have an American Standard Lager kicked from a comp in prelims for "overwhelming" DMS, which I had apparently entirely failed to perceive." Perhaps it should be the judges who should be embarrassed. Many judges feel that DMS is a flaw no matter the style of beer. Most of the times they are wrong. It is quite possible that the Am lager you brewed was just fine, but the judges were all ale drinkers who had a low tolerance for DMS. Bill Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 08:26:49 -0400 From: oberlbk at NU.COM Subject: Red Barrel I am trying to find an extract recipe for Watney's Red Barrel. If anyone has anything that is close I would appreciate it. Private emails are fine. Somebody had posted something a few weeks ago about their initial attempts at all grain brewing yielding a very harsh, astringent flavor. I myself have had all grain equipment hanging around for 2 years and have had the very same problem - 5 batches all tasted husky and thrown out. If you found what the cause of your problem was, could you please email me and let me know how you corrected it. I tried reducing my sparge volume to no avail. I would really love to use the equipment. Until then, I keep nagging the HBDers for extract versions of their recipes. Brent Oberlin East Hampton, CT oberlbk at nu.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 07:32:50 -0500 From: "David Johnson" <dmjalj at inwave.com> Subject: Question I'll keep this short. When you brewers are talking about evaporation rates, are you allowing for expansion/contraction of the wort with temperature change? Are some of these changes in volume due to comparing hot to cool wort? Dave Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 09:07:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Bradd Wheeler <braddw at rounder.com> Subject: Where to find a good wort pump .. .. .. Attentiona all you RIMS folks out there. I'm just starting to put together a home system but I am having trouble locating an adequate pump. My intentions are to use this pump for recirculation, sparge, whirlpool, as well as knockout, the whole deal. I've been able to find several light duty electric pumps that will handle most everything except for the temperatures required. I desire a pump to handle temps up to boiling, as well as a wide range of PH for cleaning. The meat of my question? Where did you get your pumps, and do you use them as wort pumps as well as hot-liquor\recirc pumps? Thanks much, Bradd Wheeler Head Brewer Plymouth Bay Brewing Co. Plymouth Ma. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 09:28:21 -0400 From: Chas Peterson <chasp at digex.net> Subject: Hops and Deer HBDers - Recently someone wrote in concerned that deer will eat their hops. I have grown hops in my backyard, which is visited by about a dozen deer 2-3 times a day, for 4-5 years. In my experience deer will eat just about anything - -- they even ate my okra, which is spiney, wicked, itchy stuff -- if they had difficulty finding food. But despite this, the deer have never taken to my hops (or asparagus) even in drought conditions. My guess is that you'll have a harder time with beatles than deer. Chas Peterson Laytonsville, Md - ------------------------------------ Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 08:32:54 -0500 From: "George, Marshall E." <MGeorge at bridge.com> Subject: Re: AHA ANNOUNCES "HOLIDAY CHEER" BEER COMPETITION Re: AHA ANNOUNCES "HOLIDAY CHEER" BEER COMPETITION Jim, I think that you forgot to mention that all beers must be extract based with boiled specialty grains and dry RedStar yeast. Also, all competitors must sparge hot wort directly into their primaries. Marshall George Edwardsville, IL Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 09:38:32 -0400 From: "Schultz, Steven W." <swschult at CBDCOM-EMH1.APGEA.ARMY.MIL> Subject: This and that... Rob Moline: "Occasionally, some remarks are undeserved, inappropriate, and in the case of 'Nokomaree' some years ago, deliberately hostile and taunting." Me: You're so right, Rob, although I think that he actually referred to himself, shoutingly, as NOKOMAREE. But in comparison to the Alzheimer's/Aluminum thread, the "100 Years War" (Dave vs. Al K.), and the Beer-in-Space and Botulism threads... I kind of miss the guy ;^) Me, again: Stuck fermentation and an imbecile's "solution." Lately I've been even lazier than usual and made a few extract-only batches with dry (Munton's Ale) yeast. Unfortunately, they had FGs in a range of 1.016 to 1.020 (the OG was around 1.050). For my last batch, I pitched both Nottingham and Munton's Ale yeast, thinking that the Nottinham's would attenuate better, but this batch also stopped at 1.020 (guess it's time to resume making partial-mash brews). Since my approach to brewing problems is, like, very low-tech, I hit upon this "solution" which seems to have worked: I bottled the 1.020 with dry champagne yeast and NO priming solution of any kind. After a few weeks, the beer was carbonated and tasted okay-- not too sweet, not too dry. This may not be the ideal solution, especially if the yeast keeps fermenting to the point I get bottle grenades, or if the yeast starts to contribute undesirable flavor characteristics. But so far it seems to have worked. Your mileage may vary, etc., And yet again, me: As modest as my brewing skills may be, without the HBD I'd be much worse! For the cost (zero) and benefits (considerable) this is a great resource and I can't remember ever asking for help and not getting it. The list of people who have helped me is quite long, but must include Jeff Renner, Al K., Dave Draper, Jim Busch, Ken Schwartz, and several others not mentioned but nonetheless appreciated. Special note to George Fix: many thanks for sticking around, despite a certain unpleasant, recent event... Steve Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 09:52:16 -0400 From: James Tomlinson <73321.1130 at compuserve.com> Subject: Dr Pivo, Oxidation, Dan the Q, Of Ales and Esters and U hop it. I Just wanted to Thank Dr. Pivo for what _he_ perceived as wasted bandwidth. I love the posts. They make me think and remember all that freshman chemistry stuff that is finally becoming useful. My only addition is that maybe a different term needs to be used to help the masses (me included) remember that oxidation/reduction reactions do not have to involve oxygen. But I digress. In my own brewing, I have had recent problems with the Cardboard flavor. Originally, I thought it was my bottling technique, but it seemed to follow my move to kegs. I now believe that I'm just a little too rough with the beer after fermentation. I'm now purging carboys, etc. And using Polyclar for the last few beers. For the Good Doctor, Dan Quayle was the Vice President of the US from Jan 1989 to Jan 1993. He was tagged by the media as "not too bright". The "Potato(e)" incident was trumped up as showing his lack of intelligence. Of course, he was handed the spelling bee word by the School's teachers....Personally, I liked the picture of him in Time magazine where he had the business end of a RPG pointed at his shoulder. *********************************************** A note on Yeast. Being the cheap B at $! at %# I am, this past winter I did very little heating in the upstairs of my house (2 zone heating). My wife liked my first all grain brew, brewed on New Years Eve, 1997. But all of the beers since were "bland" and "flavorless". I was using Wyeast 1056. I had 10 days off during the Christmas-New Years time frame and my house stayed 68-70 F during that period. It has been pointed out to me that 1056 will exibit almost lager like characteritics when fermented below 60F. I have 4 months worth of data on that. I'm now working on a temperature controlled box (using a lightbulb and a fan) to prevent the low ester beers. Does anyone have any info on other ale yeasts that would work OK and still produce ale esters down in to 55-60 F region ? I'm trying Wyeast 1098, fermented at 66-68 F and it seems to have a nice fruity nose coming out of the airlock. I am considering using the Wyeast 1968 and the Ringwood yeast strain (Don't know the number). I have tried Wyeast 1028, and I don't like that one. Suggestions requested. *********************************************** I planted Rhizomes this year and they are beginning to come up. Someone pointed out that they should be 6 feet apart. Mine are presently 24 inches apart, so I guess I'll have to transplant them. Is there a prefered method for planting the roots ? Should I have tried to root them in water before planting ? Except for weeds, I have a brown thumb.... *********************************************** James Tomlinson Give a man a beer, and he wastes an hour. But teach a man how to brew, and he wastes a lifetime! Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 May 98 07:34 PDT From: cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charley Burns) Subject: Strawberry Haze I was ***extremely*** careful. The strawberry blonde (bock) beer was crystal clear in the secondary after 10 days at 60-65F in primary (Wyeast 1056). The fresh strawberries were prepared: 1. Frozen 2. Thawed over 24 hours 3. Placed in 6 quart stock pot 4. Covered with water (only 2 cups) 5. VERY slowly brought to 160F - continuous monitoring with my digital thermometer 6. Held at 160F for 10 minutes (covered) 7. Cooled 8. Dropped 1 at a time into the secondary on top of the beer. 9. Poured leftover juice from stockpot into the beer. Over the period of 12 days in the secondary the beer got cloudy. It's now kegged and chilled for about 3 days. Its extremely cloudy. Delicious by the way. Homebrew club members liked it very much last night at meeting, but man is it ugly. What happened? I thought if I didn't boil the berries they wouldn't cause the haze. Assuming this is pectin that has set, can it be filtered out? If it can, what size holes in the filter? Charley (in a strawberry haze daze) in N. Cal. PS - using half munich malt in the grist made it quite tasty with the strawberries. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 08:30:57 -0600 From: John Adams <j_adams at fc.hp.com> Subject: Mark Your Calenders! 4th Annual KROC World Brewers Forum. Sponsered by Colorado's Keg Ran Out Club: Tuesday, September 29th, 7-10 pm. For more information call 303-460-1776 or e-mail: j_adams at fc.hp.com. - -- John "The Brews Traveler" Adams KROC World Brewers Forum Director Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 10:55:05 -0400 From: "Mark Nelson" <menelson at mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Flavor-Spiking Kits Alan Keith Meeker asks about flavor spiking kits in HBD 2714. "Does anyone out there have any info about such kits? Are they commercially available? Pricing? Sources?" I can give you one lead. I took a Beer Evaluation course here in Atlanta led by Ray Daniels. He used a kit from a UK company. I wrote down the company name as "Flavor-Active", but am not sure if that's the right spelling. You might try contacting Ray for more information, unless someone else posts better details. Ray's at the Craft Beer Institute, 773-665-1300, which is a Chicago-area number. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 10:56:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Some Guy <pbabcock at oeonline.com> Subject: New AHA event... Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager.. George Marshall sprechens: > Re: AHA ANNOUNCES "HOLIDAY CHEER" BEER COMPETITION > Jim, I think that you forgot to mention that all beers must be extract > based with boiled specialty grains and dry RedStar yeast. Also, all > competitors must sparge hot wort directly into their primaries. Um, did y'all forget to throw a tablespoon of gypsum into that? See ya! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at oeonline.com Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/brew.html "Just a cyber-shadow of his former brewing self..." Return to table of contents
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