HOMEBREW Digest #2737 Thu 11 June 1998

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  RE:  Dave's stuck ferment ("George De Piro")
  cleaning system (Michael Rose)
  HBD contest winners ("Jim & Shelly Wagner")
  Challenger Hops ("David Johnson")
  Contests/ Conical Fermenters (Mike Spinelli)
  Free Refrigerator ("Erik Vanthilt")
  Results of the 14th Dutch Open Championship for Homebrewers (Wim Hielkema)
  RE: Competitions and Categories +( Judges and MCAB) (Lee Menegoni)
  dextrins and head retention / single decoction schedule for modern malts ("Hubert Hanghofer")
  Help - Film on my brew! ("Andrew M. Hartig")
  Using a Keg as a brew pot?? ("Eric Bonney")
  Re:3068 - a mixture of two species? (Jim Wallace)
  Culture Tubes (Kyle Druey)
  Will that foam ever go away? ("Hans E. Hansen")
  Christopher Tkach, where are you? ("Hans E. Hansen")
  Refrigerator temperature controls ("Andrew J. Londo")
  Concord, California HBDers (Mike Spinelli)
  AOB/AHA rant:  page down now if you are tired of the topic ("George De Piro")
  Spice Beers ("David Johnson")
  re: AHA Bashing ("Henckler, Andrew")
  AHA and stuff (Alan Folsom)
  re: AHA bashing (Bill Giffin)
  Re: Not so sour? (Charles Hudak)
  Whahhhhhh, Whahhhhhhhh ("Raymond Johnson")
  Critters/cellar temp (Tim Burkhart)
  Book review request (Domenick Venezia)
  RE:Response to MCAB Complaint (John Murphy)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 09 Jun 98 14:15:26 PDT From: "George De Piro" <gdepiro at fcc.net> Subject: RE: Dave's stuck ferment Hi all, Dave asks (quite recently) if he is correct in assuming that he should not oxygenate the half-fermented beer when re-pitching fresh yeast. He also asks if it is necessary to rack the beer back into a carboy to contain the Kraeusen. Dave is correct on the first point: do not add O2 to the young beer! That will oxidize the heck out of it. I don't care what they do at Sam Smiths! Their bottled product in the US is kind of indicative of what aerating the ferment can do. Do feed the starter oxygen, though, to ensure that the cells you pitch are strong and ready to finish the job that their comrades did not. In my *limited* experience with repitching to jump start a fermentation, I don't think you will get as big a Kraeusen when repitching. The ferment never seems to get going that strongly. Perhaps the lack of O2? I guess if you added a really large amount of of yeast, it would get going strongly again. Each time you rack the beer you risk oxidation and contamination, so I would just remove one of the popets and afix a blow-off tube to the stem with a hose clamp. Put the other end of the hose in water or whatever, and let 'er rip. Have fun! George De Piro (I wish the room would stop spinning here in Nyack, NY) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 11:30:37 -0700 From: Michael Rose <mrose at ucr.campus.mci.net> Subject: cleaning system I'm just about done building my 2 tier system. Unfortunatly, the wort will come in contact with SS, brass, copper, plastic(pump housing) and a small amount of steel(welders fault). I want to do a thorough cleaning before my first use. What cleaning chemicals does the collective recommend. Acid? Caustic? What strength? Thanks Michael Rose Riverside, CA mrose at ucr.campus.mci.net Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 98 13:27:14 -0500 From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix) Subject: DMS Jack Schmidling writes: >Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> says: >>" When you stop the boil, but while the wort is still hot (Fix says >>158F), SMM is still being converted to DMS, but it is *not* boiling >>off. Slow cooling *CAN* result in excessive DMS. [snip] >Can't help but wonder what happens at these magic dogmatic temps. >Obviously, it's a curve of some sort and someone had to make a >judgement at to when it gets "excessive". But leaving the number >aside, the word excessive becomes the "controlling legal authority' >er, ah.... the issue. I must respectively disagree with JS on this point. AlK is absolutely right about slow cooling being an important cause of nonmicrobial DMS. Moreover, the terms used by Al are well defined in the general brewing literature. In the widely used Milgaard system "excessive" means over two flavor units, i.e., concentrations in excess of two times the flavor threshold. In addition, DMS evolution closely follows first order kinetics, and if you work out the math associated with that you will arrive at the cited temperature range. It is true that different people have different tolerances for DMS. I grew up on traditional lager beer (continental and domestic), and until I married Laurie (who can not stand DMS) I generally felt that lagers with subthreshold levels were insipid. She had me do several things to get DMS levels down. Ironically, one of the most effective was a 15 min. open simmer at 90-95C after the boil (although this effect may depend on the type of brewing equipment used). I feel overall the beers had a cleaner finish than previous brews, although they were a tad less complex. The reduction of DMS levels in lagers seems to be an international trend. Even a cursory review of the German literature shows that almost universally they see levels above one Milgaard flavor unit as being a flaw. In recent years I have have been involved in four commercial startups (one micro and three brewpubs), and in each of these consumer acceptance of pilot brews consistently went up as DMS went down (at least with ~80% of the population in the tests). As amateur brewers we of course can do whatever we want to do including increasing DMS levels (something I do on those occasions when Laurie is not supervising the brewing session!). However, those who are primarily ale fans who make lagers only on occasions may want to consider measures for lowering DMS levels and see what results from such a change. Bamforth in his new book uses the term "cat urine" as a descriptor for DMS. I am not sure I totally agree with this term, however it does give a vivid description of how ale brewers tend to react to DMS! Cheers. George Fix P.S. Congratulations to George De Piro for picking up the BOS at the recent BURP competition. But George I am terribly confused. Why is a nice, self-respecting hop adverse person such as yourself brewing IPAs, and winning Gold Metals to boot? What is the world coming to? The next thing you know Schmidling will start donating all the profits from his equipment company to charity. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 15:05:50 -0400 From: "Jim & Shelly Wagner" <wagner at toad.net> Subject: HBD contest winners Just a quick congradulations to the HBD subscribers who placed in the 1998 Spirit of Free Beer Homebrew contest, especially to George De Prio and George Fix for taking 1st and 3rd respectively in BOS...there were 439 entries....good job guys!!! P.S. Gary Nazelrod....if you are out there, forgive me....I've just never seen a post from you. <<<<<<Stoney Creek Brewing>>>>>> **********Pasadena, Maryland******** Established-1994 ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 14:34:01 -0500 From: "David Johnson" <dmjalj at inwave.com> Subject: Challenger Hops Brewers, I have a barleywine just started and had planned on dry-hopping with Columbus hops. I have already used columbus as bittering and flavor hops in this brew came up a little short and ordered more. My supplier sent Challenger by accident. What is the experience on using this hop as dry hop? Dave Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 09 Jun 98 15:48:48 est From: paa3983 at dscp.dla.mil (Mike Spinelli) Subject: Contests/ Conical Fermenters HBDers, Thanks to all youses advice, I'll be entering my >100 IBU IPA (thanks A.J.) and a smoked ale into the 5th annual BUZZ OFF in Downingtown, PA. Should be interesting. Re: Conical fermenters, I heard from my local HB shop a while ago that they found a company in Philly that could roll a SS cone and food- grade weld it to a keg or other tank. I would think that's gotta be cheaper than the $2K for a turn-key unit. If anyone's interested, I might be able to get more info. about this company. Mike Spinelli Cherry Hill NJ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 13:16:01 -0700 From: "Erik Vanthilt" <vanthilt at inetworld.net> Subject: Free Refrigerator To any and all in the San Diego area... Just bought a house, the refrigerator that came with it was not worth keeping. It maintains perfect temp, side by side design, not the most attractive though, a couple of seals are being held together by duct tape. Free to good home. (Or maybe trade for a couple bottles of homebrew :) ) Also, the house came with one of those halogen/profile type cook tops. No Gas! Anyone out there brew on one of these? Unfortunately this is all I have until I get the brew room with the gas burners going.... TIA, Erik Vanthilt vanthilt at inetworld.net The Virtual Brewery has moved! Check out the new site and update your links... Http://www.inetworld.net/vanthilt/index.html Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 21:45:53 +0200 From: Wim Hielkema <betonh at xs4all.nl> Subject: Results of the 14th Dutch Open Championship for Homebrewers Fellow Brewers, For those of you who are interested the results of the 14th Dutch Open Championship for Homebrewers, held july 6 in Hoofddorp (near Schiphol Airport), can be found at <http://www.xs4all.nl/~betonh/tww/ONK98/ONK98_uitslag.html> All entries are in the Dutch language, so this is not for the faint of heart. :-) For your information, entries are devided up into 4 classes, namely: Class A = "Licht Smalbier", Color < 30 EBC and O.G. < 1.060 Class B = "Donker Smalbier", Color > 30 EBC and O.G. < 1.060 Class C = "Licht Dikbier", Color < 30 EBC and O.G. > 1.060 Class D = "Donker Dikbier", Color > 30 EBC and O.G. > 1.060 This is mainly done for logistical purposes, within each class the beer is judged according to the style as which it was entered. Enjoy, Wim. - -- Wim Hielkema, Homebrewer & WebWizard, Amsterdam, The Netherlands betonh at xs4all.nl, http://www.xs4all.nl/~betonh/beer/beer.html "Give me beer OR give me death" - Al Bundy Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 17:45:42 -0400 From: Lee Menegoni <Lee.Menegoni at digital.com> Subject: RE: Competitions and Categories +( Judges and MCAB) John Murphy makes a compelling argument about why he should be in MCAB. > the BHC entry form stated that: >"Winners in 18 subcategories will qualify to enter in the MCAB national championship round." > Dry stout is one the 18 subcategories. If you notice from the winner's list, the BHC qualified >the 3rd place beer in the stout category as the dry stout for MCAB. According to the BHC, >my beer didn't qualify for MCAB because they decided to qualify beers from the first round of judging. We must remember that his beer went through three rounds of judging. That involves three different bottles and three different sets of judges. Beers were judged at the Subcategory level. Some number of top scoring beers were advanced to the Category Round. Category winners were advanced to Best of Show round. The Winner of the SUBCATEGORY ROUND was the MCAB winner as the entry documents indicate. Either through the subjective nature of judging or the differences that can occur between bottles of homebrew John's beer was not found to be the best Dry Stout in the Sub Category round and hence did not advance to MCAB. Just as the entry form stated the winner of this round went to MCAB. Setting a world record in the qualifying heat at the Olympics doesn't earn you a medal. Lee Menegoni email: Lee.Menegoni at Digital.Com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 00:24:47 +0200 From: "Hubert Hanghofer" <hhanghof at netbeer.co.at> Subject: dextrins and head retention / single decoction schedule for modern malts Scott writes in HBD2730 that dextrins can contribute to head retention. Like Al, I don't think and never read that this would be the case ...but parking at 160F (71C) for the sacc. rest - as Scott suggests - will do other good things to aid in head retention. If you stay there for extended periods - say 40 mins or more - glycoproteids (protein carbohydrate complexes) will be released from the malt. These are not further degraded and thus get into the beer. ~~~~~ In HBD2730 and 2734 Scott further outlines the wide range of possible mashing schedules involving a single decoction. - Great survey but I'd like to add a note: Normal or *even thick* decoctions to the mashout range *are* possible and quite usual if using single and double decoction schedules. "Hochkurzmaischen", a modern German decoction schedule for well modified malts is a good example: mash in at 62C (no protein rest at all) 1st thick decoction to 70C 2nd normal decoction to 75C total time 2 hours. My favorite single decoction schedules are: A) Involving short protein rest: mash in at 57C/135F for 15 mins step up with infusion water to 64C/147F, hold for 20-30mins thick decoct to 75C/167F B) And the simple one without protein rest: mash in at 63C/145F, hold for 20-30mins thick decoct to 75C/167F It must be noted, that in this case usually *not* the upper limit of the mash out range (78C/172F) is strived for! 75C/167F is a safe target temp for your calculations. In any case you should be sure to stay below 78C/172F since a-Amylase is inactivated rapidly at 80C/176F. If you are not quite sure about your system yet, you can try my Excel brewplanner. http://www.netbeer.co.at/beer/bin/brewtabs.zip If you run through the calibration procedure and don't make sloppy volume/weight measurements I can assure you that you'll hit target temp within +-1C. (...Physics is an exact science!) I've posted an example of this simple approach last year in HBD2449. The reason why thick decoctions to mashout are still a no-no for (US)homebrewers is clear for me now: Your standard homebrewing literature doesn't allow it because of the danger of getting unconverted starch into the mash! That in turn - because all diastatic enzymes are inactivated immediately at mashout (an erroneous assumption!) will stay unconverted, cause starch haze, infections ...! As far as I understand it, all interpretations / derivations are based on the classic (old) triple decoction schedule (4-5 hours!), where thin/lauter decoctions to mashout were used and thus some transition/generalization -errors may have occured. a-Amylase is indeed degraded gradually at mashout, but by far not at such a high rate, that it isn't able to finish conversion of a non cereal mash! To back my story up I can refer to any German literature. Believe me - it's not just a tricky technique - it's commonly applied technology. If you decide to try single decoction, some ideas on why you should choose a (thick) decoction to mashout: * It leads to very simple -easy- decoction schedules (see above). * It's a schedule with total control over protein degradation (exactly defined and timed rests of the *whole mash* below 135F). * Because there's no need to add much infusion water, you have 2 advantages if using a cooler-mashtun: 1) Use schedules with a broader temp range (eg. mash in at 40C/104F to produce ferulic acid or degrade glucans) 2) You can keep the mash rather thick. - In other words you can put more malt in your mashtun, do a high gravity boil, adjust OG with pre boiled water and thusly: make *more beer* with your given equipment (and not to forget - hit target gravity every time). ...I'm sure I've forgotten something... CHEERS & sehr zum Wohle Hubert, brewing in Salzburg, Austria Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 16:03:03 -0700 (PDT) From: "Andrew M. Hartig" <andrew at ccs.ucsb.edu> Subject: Help - Film on my brew! HBDers: I am seeking advice for a "problem" I have recently detected with my brew. It is in the secondary and has a kind of "film" on top of it. I am a bit of a "newbie" so please bear with. Despite breaking almost all of the "rules" I have seen on the HBD, I brewed an all-grain brew as follows: 8 lb. 2-row grain 1.5 lb. honey 2 oz. Cascade hops I did this with several infusion mashes to yield 5 gallons of wort, which was then gently boiled (yes - full wort boil) for about 60 minutes. Honey was added in the last 20 minutes -- long enough for sterilization. Hops added at start of boil. Wort then allowed to sit (covered) overnight to cool, and was then poured into a sanitized plastic primary, aerated by shaking it like the dickens, then pitched with Dry Edme Ale yeast. There was no airlock activity for 56 hours(!), after which there was non-stop activity for 24. Then everything grinded to a halt. Fearing "stuck-fermentation" I took a hydrometer reading which was 1.028 (OG was 1.060). I shook the fermenter for about a week to keep yeast in solution, an airlock activity continued about every 1-2 minutes. After about 2 1/2 weeks after the first pitching, I racked to a glass secondary and took another reading = 1.026. The beer tasted good, with a bit of sweetness, but I decided not to worry about the "stuck" fermentation. Now, after sitting in the secondary for a little over a week, I have noticed a kind of thin "film" on the top of the beer. There is also some small groupings of bubbles here and there (which I believe is from the yeast). This film was not noticeable in the primary. Should this be something to worry about? Any ideas what it is? IMBR? :( I am considering siphoning out the beer between the trub and this film in hopes that what's there might be okay. I have not opened the airlock to take a whiff/taste. I would really like to know what this is first. [Hopefully not botulism ;) ] This is also the second batch I've had this happen to (and it's only my second ever batch!) I dumped the first batch because it also had a green moldy patch on the top (I believe this was due to a failed attempt at fining with gelatin). I am doubly frustrated by this second attempt because I have taken every precaution to keep things very sterile - using bleach and boiling water for sterilising everything (not to mention excluding the "gelatin treatment"). I have attempted to comb through past digests looking for similar problems, but have come up with very little. I would appreciate any help that anyone can give (aside from comments that I've broken every other HBD rule). Does anyone know what's floating on my beer??? (Personal email welcome) TIA, -A: <andrew at ccs.ucsb.edu> Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 22:14:04 -0400 From: "Eric Bonney" <ebonney at fuse.net> Subject: Using a Keg as a brew pot?? Well I was just giving a Keg from a friend after his party. I thought I read people using these things as brew pots and wanted to find out equipment I would need to get and what I would need to do to the keg to use it as such. Any information is appreciated. Thanks, -Eric Bonney ebonney at fuse.net Check out my home page at: http://home.fuse.net/ebonney/ Prejudice is a learned trait, SO WHAT are YOU teaching YOUR children?! Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 18:49:31 -0500 From: Jim Wallace <jwallace at crocker.com> Subject: Re:3068 - a mixture of two species? From: ALAN KEITH MEEKER <ameeker at welchlink.welch.jhu.edu> <<Robert Dittmar writes concerning the idea that Wyeast 3068 may actually be a mixture of two different yeasts...>> <<.....Funny you should mention this. I was just talking with a fellow at the GABF On The Road here in Baltimore and he was making the same claim - that 3068 is a mixture of an ale yeast and delbrueckii and that, therefore, one might see changes in character when re-using the yeast cake from one batch to make a new one. Specifically, he was claiming the clove-like esters come from one species while the banana-like esters come from the other. >> ......after brewing with this yeast I questioned Dan at WYeast on it this spring.... I thought my weissen had a certain sourness to it ... he said no Delbrueckii .. and I am almost certain he claims a single strain (not 100% sure though.. can't find his actual reply)... he did say that sourness can be a problem with this style due to low hopping of this style of wheat beer leaving the door open for minor infections. ___________________________________________ JIM WALLACE ... jwallace at crocker.com http://www.crocker.com/~jwallace ___________________________________________ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 10:23:04 -0700 From: Kyle Druey <druey at ibm.net> Subject: Culture Tubes Just picked up 48 16mm X 150mm borosilicate glass culuture tubes that included the threaded cap. The cost was $5.35 for a 12 pack from a company called Aquatic Ecosystems, 800 422 3939, catalog no. LTT17. I am the company's majority stock holder so please buy several cases :). I have seen this item from the usual homebrew suppliers for $16.95 per 12 and for $1.00 each. Just wanted to pass along a good deal to the collective. Kyle Druey Bakersfield, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 22:09:17 -0700 From: "Hans E. Hansen" <hansh at teleport.com> Subject: Will that foam ever go away? Hi all. This is merely the ravings of a 1st time all grain batch. My All Grain Dry Stout (it deserves Caps) just got xfered to the secondary. Brewer's Workshop calculated 1.042, I got 1.041!!! (Probably beginner's luck.) Taste is about what I hoped for. My only (slight) bitch is in the subject line. I used some flaked barley in the mash. The trouble is that I tried to get a S.G. measure, and the foam won't go away. I poured from glass to glass about 10 times or so to dissipate CO2, but 1/8" of foam persists. There is nothing I can do to get rid of it. I tried skimming and just about everything else. Very small, minor bitch. Oh well! Hans E. Hansen hansh at teleport.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 22:58:15 -0700 From: "Hans E. Hansen" <hansh at teleport.com> Subject: Christopher Tkach, where are you? Sorry for the wasted space. Christopher Tkach: your e-mail address seems incorrect. I would like a copy of your new-and-improved beer carbohydrate program. Please let me know. Hans E. Hansen hansh at teleport.com P.S. Al K. - speaks of being "put on permanent dump bucket duty". Where do I apply? (WAAAYYYY too much beer speaking here.) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 05:35:34 -0400 From: "Andrew J. Londo" <ajlondo at mtu.edu> Subject: Refrigerator temperature controls Hello all. Does anyone know where I can cheaply get a temperature controler for a refrigerator? I"m looking into getting a fridg for lagering. Thanks. Andy Londo Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 98 08:32:35 est From: paa3983 at dscp.dla.mil (Mike Spinelli) Subject: Concord, California HBDers HBDers, My brother is moving to Concord CA this month. Any HBDers out there who live there and can give my bro' advice on places to live, etc.? He's looking to rent. Thanks Mike Spinelli Cherry Hill NJ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 98 09:01:42 PDT From: "George De Piro" <gdepiro at fcc.net> Subject: AOB/AHA rant: page down now if you are tired of the topic Hi all, Ray writes about the AOB/AHA: "In other words, quit bitchin' about the little things, and be thankful for what you have and what's been done for you. Christ!!! Give 'em an inch, and they'll take a mile every time." I was going to stay out of this whole AHA/NHC North East debacle, but Rays comments have put me over the edge. I am one of the poor slobs who wasted money entering the NHC this year, so I think Im allowed a brief rant. The AHA screwed up in a huge way. They have shown that they can no longer run their own contest. I do not blame Brian Rezac or any individual at the AHA. The problems there go back further than the folks that are there now (with the notable exception of globe trotter Charlie P.) Ray implies that because the AOB/AHA have done such a service for the craft brewing/home brewing industries, we should be thankful and stop whining. The problem with such logic is that they still collect membership fees, but they dont seem to be doing anything for us! No individual or organization can rest on its laurels if they want to stay alive. As of now, there are still over 220 entries from the northeast that have not been evaluated. The AHA has said NOTHING about this situation; I only know this stuff because me and my companions are likely to be pressed into service evaluating them with great haste at the last minute, and have been talking with the non-AHA employee is is trying to organize it all. Im sure the feedback to the entrants will be of the highest caliber... The recent GABF Roadshow was less than a stellar success, which illustrates that the AOB can also no longer perform one of its most basic functions. It really is sad that the AOB/AHA is in a flat spin, plummeting toward the earth at fantastic speed. They DID important work, and the task will never be done. The craft brewing industry needs a voice. It is quite a shame that the AOB/AHA can no longer serve its most basic functions. Perhaps if the emperor would stay at home long enough to notice whats going on, something could change. George de Piro (Nyack, NY) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 08:10:29 -0500 From: "David Johnson" <dmjalj at inwave.com> Subject: Spice Beers Brewers, Having brewed a few spied beers, I was interested in "probably the best spiced beer I have ever evaluated." as observed by George De Piro. My comment would be that we could request that the recipe should be shared with all of us especially with that kind of praise having been heaped on it. Although I may never brew a curry beer, I am interested in how Brian might have used his spices. In fact, I am interested in learning how to used spices better and read posts on this subject closely here and on the Mead Lovers Digest. I must thank the collective for the guidance that enabled me to have a spiced Belgian Strong Ale advance at the much maligned NHC. (By the way, Spencer, only 6 pods of freshly ground cardamom seeds). Dave Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 09:29:00 -0400 From: "Henckler, Andrew" <ahenckler at findsvp.com> Subject: re: AHA Bashing Greetings to all, especially: Raymond Johnson I know that the AHA has, in its existence, done many things for the hobby. However, that organization's activities and performance over the last few years have been largely shameless with respect to member service and advancing the hobby. The major reason I have become strongly anti-AHA is that the organization has outlived its usefulness, as far as I can tell, and all attempts to get it on the straight and narrow path have failed. If Brian Rezac (who, by all accounts, is a good guy) or anyone else succeeds in reviving this albatross on the hobby into something useful, I'd be happy to support the AHA again. However, I am extremely sceptical. I intend to support the BJCP, MCAB and local clubs rather than the AHA. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 08:58:58 -0500 (CDT) From: folsom at ix.netcom.com (Alan Folsom) Subject: AHA and stuff Jethro writes: > In his role of Administrator of the AHA, he has never had the >authority to act on his vision of the best interest's of the >membership....he has only apparently had the good fortune to be in the >hot seat when the dung heap had to fall on someone..... > > Finally, I would hope that he be allowed to state his own >position on the current situation....as I have previously posted, he >is on vacation....and rather than even sending a voice mail to his AHA >phone (which he does monitor)...I would rather not disturb what I hope >to be a relaxing time for he and his family... > > Gotta tell you, Jethro's quite sick with this whole affair...I > know what's hat...and what's not...and Brian does not deserve this... > >Jethro Gump Bravo! While I have been no great fan of the AHA in the past, I believe it is clear that it has improved in the last year or two, and that can only be attributed to Brian and others like him who have tried to be what we have asked for -- homebrewers actually interested in the hobby. Can anyone deny the AHA is much more responsive than it was back in 1995? Yes, there is much that needs to be better, and much that I still don't like or approve of, but it's getting better. While there are certainly problems (I know, it cost me $70 to send beers to the New England Regional), we can either continually grumble and gripe, or work to support those who are trying to make improvements in the organization. As Jethro says, Brian is one of the good guys. While I have read a lot of stuff from people complaining about him, I have seen no counter accusations from him, and I am sure there is plenty of blame to go around. That alone says something about the character of the folks involved in the discussion. Al Folsom Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 10:13:05 -0400 From: Bill Giffin <billg at ctel.net> Subject: re: AHA bashing Top of the morning to yea all, Rob Moline talking about Brian Rezac said: >>In his role of Administrator of the AHA, he has never had the authority to act on his vision of the best interest's of the membership....he has only apparently had the good fortune to be in the hot seat when the dung heap had to fall on someone.....<< Here Rob has hit upon the real problem with the AHA. Brian made a mistake apparently, yet did he? We have to remember who has the ultimate power in the AOB/AHA. Remember the AHA is only a part of the AOB. Charlie Papazian is the only one to have the power. Is Charlie the puppet master who controls everything in the AHA while remaining in the dark? Was it Charlie pulling the strings that had Karen Barela break the AHA ties with the BJCP? How many more things that would have improved the AHA for the membership has Charlie killed in the dark behind the folks who have to pass on the pronouncements to the membership? Raymond Johnson in his post "AHA bashing" said: >>With that said, I dare say that few, if any of us would be discussing anything related to beer without this organization. If you have a problem with the AHA, then write to those responsible for bad decisions, and policies. Words like; "Down with the AHA", are irrational, and just plain rediculous.<< I am so tired of the politically correct people labeling honest and constructive criticism as bashing. Considering that homebrewing has been going on for 5-6,000 years I don't think that the AHA has nor will have much impact on brewing in the long term. Whatever place Zymurgy had in the homebrewing community has been taken away and occupied by Brewing Techniques and other homebrewing magazines. I don't think that we have to worry about the "Down with the AHA" bit, as the AHA seems intent on self-destruction. Membership is on the decline. A couple of years ago Karen Barela bragged about having 25,000 members. The AHA is now at 20,000. Wonder if those 5,000 quit brewing or perhaps they just got Brewing Techniques. Membership in the AHA is over priced and over rated at $33 per year. For $25 per year as a member of Good Sam I receive 12 magazines a year as well as discounts of 10% on campsites in many locations and discounts on insurance and publications. I get two yachting magazines each with 12 issues per year for far less then $33 per year and they are far better written with more pages. The major benefit as I see it of joining the AHA is the opportunity to pay too much for anything that you receive from them. Bill Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 07:24:20 -0700 From: Charles Hudak <cwhudak at adnc.com> Subject: Re: Not so sour? Joel wrote: >You write: >>I'd be happy to provide anyone great instructions...tried and true, for >>souring a mash... > > If it's not too large, post the instructions to the HBD. >I did a sour mash once for a pseudo-BerlinerWeiss style beer, >and I'd like to compare my seat-of-the-pants method to yours. After responding to several people privately, I will go ahead and reiterate what I sent to them (after some minor modifications ) to you folks on the digest: Ok, here's what I do. YMMV. It is not an exact science and ingredients are a big factor (some grain has a larger population of lactobacillus). It is actually better to undershoot on sourness than overshoot. You can't always bring it back from the brink with CaC03. Mash in as normal but withhold ~5-10% of your malt load (try to use all 2-row); should be 0.5-1p. After your normal mash rest, add ice to bring temp down to 115-120F. Stir in the remaining grain. Cover with aluminum foil; the foil should sit in contact with the mash. This helps to keep air out...lactic acid bacteria are anaerobic. Let sit for 12-18 hrs. The longer it sits, the more sour it will be. Fifteen hours had worked for me in the past. After it has suitably soured, add an infusion of boiling water to bring the mash up to 150-160F. It helps if you start with a fairly thick mash so this infusion doesn't thin things out too much. You'll have to do a calculation to determine how much water to add, depending on the quantity of your mash (how much water and grain) and the heat capacity of your mash tun. I have a calculator that I wrote in excel that is very helpful for this. Once you've gotten your mash back up to sacchrafication temp, let sit 30-60 minutes and then begin sparging as normal (remember, you added back some starch that we want to get converted). Collect your wort and proceed as usual. This whole mess will usually smell pretty awful; very musty and rank, like my gym locker in high school. Trust me, it will turn out fine. Most of the musty character will be driven off during the boil, the rest during fermentation. I've never tried doing this with a small quantity to add back into the main batch. It is much harder to sour fermented beer and who wants to make a one gallon batch to add to the main batch? It is risky though. As I stated in my post, a 250 gallon batch I made that I let sit a couple of hours longer than normal (the previous batch hadn't been as sour as I wanted) was too sour to drink. If you like Gueze, imagine the sourest you've had and multiply by 10. On the other hand, a batch of dry stout that I made with this method got rave reviews at a St Paddys Day party last year and my friend Pete A'Hearn, the brewmaster at a local micro, used this method to make a great Marion Berry P-Lambic that he served at the Southern California Homebrewers Festival. If it does turn out too sour, you can always blend it with an unsoured batch to make it drinkable. Hope this helps. Good luck with the experimentation. If you have any more questions, don't hestitate to ask. Seeya Charles Charles Hudak cwhudak at adnc.com Living large on the left coast....... Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 11:28:30 -0400 From: "Raymond Johnson" <JOHNSONR2 at state.mi.us> Subject: Whahhhhhh, Whahhhhhhhh Whah, whah. Ok, let me see if I've got this straight. My comments have put George De Piro "over the edge"? I think George was itchin' to get into the mix anyway, or perhaps George's wounds are still a too fresh. Either way, I think I've brought out the beast in him, and probably done him a favor. It's good to vent George--isn't it? Sinse we've named names... My beef is with those who sling reckless comments calling for heads to roll, and "down with the AHA". George states that the AOB/AHA is no longer providing the basic services to its membership, yet still collecting dues. Ever read Zymurgy? Ever go to www.beertown.org? I'll wager a big, fat YES on both accounts. Guess what else cry babies. My favorite mail-order homebrew supply shop, St. Patricks of Texas, gives ALL AHA mebers 5% off ALL purchases. I could pay for my dues three-fold every year with this bonus alone--if my wife would let me! And, they aren't the only supply shop to offer such discounts. These are just three examples of services that the AHA/AOB has done for you lately. Please understand, I know full well how frustrating it is to enter beers in a poorly run competition; I simpathize with you there. I also know that those in charge did not set out to ruin my life and felt worse about the farse than anyone. This doesn't mean that the next one will be run poorly. When I see people bithchin' about the quality of the prizes awarde for the AHC, for crying out loud, I just laugh, then I shake my head, then I get pissed, then I get defensive. I mean, come on. How childish can one be? I guess if all you care about is how your beer does in a competition, then maybe the AHA/AOB has failed YOU--this time. Nobody said life was fare. My mebership dues go a lot further than just sposoring the great National Homebrew pissing Contests(punn intended). And, I will continue to support the AOB/AHA. As far as I know, nobody is forced to pay dues to the AHA. Nuff said! Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 13:21:34 -0500 From: Tim Burkhart <tburkhart at dridesign.com> Subject: Critters/cellar temp First a light hearted comment on the open fermentation thread. Last evening I trundled into the basement, er, beer cellar to see if my wheat had dropped bright yet. Upon close examination, I noticed something floating in the air lock (trumpet type). Lo and behold, it was a quite dead wolf spider. That little bugger had crawled his way up the carboy into the air lock and drowned to get to my homebrew. I had to really shake the air lock to dislodge his bloated corpse. Into the sink, not the beer, of course. I guess If I try an open fermentation technique in my basement, I'll have to create a formidable barrier to keep the buggers out :^) *** Second, Is 68/f too warm for extended (more than two months) cellaring bottle conditioned ales at 1050 gravity? I bottled a 1056g porter a month ago and am concerned about storing it (and other ales) at this temp until I get room in the fridge or fall comes around. My basement has been constant at this temp for the spring months, and I hope it will remain the same into the summer. Thanks in advance. Tim Burkhart, Kansas City Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 11:51:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Domenick Venezia <demonick at zgi.com> Subject: Book review request In the 14 May issue of the journal Nature, page 129, is a review of a new book by Charles Bamforth, deputy director of the UK Brewing Research International, formerly, the Brewing Industry Research Foundation at Nutfield in Surrey, titled, "Beer: Tap into the Art and Science of Brewing". The reviewer is John Postgate emeritus professor of Mircobiology at the U. of Sussex, and the review is quite positive. >From the review it appears that the book has an industrial slant, and I was wondering whether any homebrewer(s) had seen and read this book and would be willing to review it here. Thanks in advance, Domenick Venezia demonick at zgi dot com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 15:20:54 -0500 From: John Murphy <jbm at ll.mit.edu> Subject: RE:Response to MCAB Complaint Louis Bonham (lkbonham at phoenix.net) writes: >John Murphy takes umbrage with the MCAB selection process used at the >Boston Wort Processors competition last February. This is, of course, not >news to either me or Ken Jucks (honcho of the BHC), as we have both >exchanged voluminous I can sincerely assure you that my post was not intended as a complaint of any sort. I did note that I had inquired (complain, if that's how Louis sees fit to describe it) with the BHC and MCAB. I assumed from my description that one could gather that I had already exchanged views with both and that a decision had been made to do nothing. The purpose of the post was to pose the simple question: if a dry stout is judged to be the best overall stout in a competition, is it not also the best (and winning) dry stout at that competition? In this case, my contention is that if your answer to the question is no, then you're stating the following: that one dry stout can be deemed a better stout than another dry stout, yet, at the same time, considered inferior when compared as a dry stout. This, to me, sounds ridiculous. Louis has stated he does not agree with this argument. He turns to the discrepancies in competition judging as reasoning for such a view. IMO, this only leaves the whole judging process (and competition) suspect. >The BHC decided, in advance of the competition, to use the "QS only >preliminary round" method. Let me assure everyone that this *was* decided >in advance -- Ken Jucks and I discussed it well before the competition. My argument here is that the BHC, according to their entry form, decided to select "Winners in 18 subcategories" to qualify beers for MCAB. This was done well in advance of any decision to use the "QS only preliminary round" method. No special method was described to entrants for qualifying beers other than winning the subcategory. Qualifying beers that are not "winners" is wrong. >decision of the QE's. It is 100% up to the QE's how they certify MCAB >qualifiers. If MCAB truly wants to be a "champions championship," then they need to guarantee that the best beers are qualified. >(4) As I have repeatedly asked Mr. Murphy, what does he want? Does he want >an apology from the MCAB? From the BHC? Or does he really want the MCAB >to bend the strict rules and make an exception so that he can enter? I've >told Mr. As I have told Louis, I would like the BHC to do the right thing and honor their entry form, which is qualify the winning dry stout of the '98BHC. When they refuse to do so I felt it was important to make Louis aware of my opinion and the disservice done to MCAB if this was allowed. I regret that he sees this as complaining and a request for some special exception. In addition, I made it perfectly clear to Louis that if he and Ken decide to do nothing, then so be it. But that doesn't mean I will agree with that decision and not voice my opinion. I might add that some of these "strict" rules were not posted at the MCAB website until AFTER I had contacted Louis. >Murphy that if he's asking for the last thing, he need only ask and I'll >put it in front of the steering committee for a vote, although I >personally >would strongly argue to the Steering Committee that we should >not be >granting any "exception invitations". (By way of response, he's not asked >me to put it to a vote.) Again, the only thing I ever asked was to qualify the winning dry stout of '98BHC. I refuse to tell the BHC or MCAB how to fix their problems, but I will suggest that they do fix them. I have been contacted by at least one MCAB Steering Committee member who feels this is "beaurocractic nonsense" and that "next year is too late to correct this year's mistakes." I couldn't agree more. Cheers - -- John Murphy jbm at ll.mit.edu Return to table of contents
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