HOMEBREW Digest #2740 Mon 15 June 1998

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
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  AHA (lee gross)
  Indian Chai beer (michael w bardallis)
  Dextrins and Head Retention ("Scott Nichols")
  Re: MCAB rule interpretation (Spencer W Thomas)
  The Jethro Gump Report ("Rob Moline")
  Poppet Valves (Russ Kruska)
  Re: Blueberry vs. Raspberry? (Alan Folsom)
  Briess Data Point ("Rosenzweig,Steve")
  MCAB at BHC (717) 787-4973" <BENDER.RODNEY at a1.pader.gov>
  Grabbing the good rate (fridge)
  Polyclar use specifics (James Tomlinson)
  Easy Chiller (Jeff Renner)
  Hops Bines (EFOUCH)
  Re: Blueberry vs. Raspberry (bthumm)
  Re: How to assess recipe quality? (bthumm)
  When to spice a Wit (Bob.Sutton)
  Re: Recognition for uncommon kindness (OCaball299)
  1) Cellar temp again (Tim Burkhart)
  RE: cooling isn't cool? (John Wilkinson)
  Re:  Sluggish ferment w/ Chimay yeast (from Dean Fikar)/Lambics (from Jason Gorman) ("Gregory A. Lorton")
  Cleaning your nightmare (John Palmer)
  Yeast Refinement ("Jeffrey M. Kenton")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 17:07:13 -0400 From: lee gross <egross at emory.edu> Subject: AHA I think that Raymond Johnson guy has now pissed me off enough for me to join the fray. He seems rather expert at making the baby crying noises of his last post's subject line. Maybe he should ask his wife to change his diaper and then he wouldn't be so cranky. He seemed more offended that his words brought George DePiro into the discussion,than actually addressing George's points. I agrre with George, I think it's legitimate to criticize an organization or the paid personnel of that organization if they fail to do the job they are paid to do, especially for repeated offenses. The AHA charges alot and alot of us think we are not getting our money's worth.If AHA people are your friends, that's great, but remember your bias. As for my bias,I am not completely anti-AHA, but I'm getting there. I am still waiting for a ribbon or certificate for my second place finish in the last Mead Magic Club Only competition, I've asked a million ways,the response is none or extremely slow, and always it's blamed on previous AHA employees and they'll get it to me asap, yet it's been greater than a year. My club may have paid the fee but I want my certificate. This will be news to most of you, but the AHA run NHC this year was hell for those of us working the SOUTHEAST competition as well. It took us 4 days of near continuous judging to finish the 547 or so beers.We had a hard time drawing judges and stewards, unlike last year when we had an overflow crowd. True, many of the addresses supplied by the AHA, through the BJCP I guess, were incorrect, and the mailings were sent out late, but everyone who gets Zymurgy or entered last year got a flyer, so yall know when the competition is, no need for engraved perfumed invitations.(All judges please update your addresses with the BJCP). Our club is not overflowing with money, and the AHA is rather slow paying back the club or those who personally wrote checks. Among the petty problems:there were not enough cups sent just like last year,unexpectedly we had to print up all the forms, style sheets, etc ourselves this year and I heard some whining because there were no tshirts this year for the workers, just a free entry to next years NHC. Just alot of work for only a few. It was sort of a thankless job, but our club, the Covert Hops Society managed to pull it off and we are proud of ourselves. Regardless, all those involved in the organization and running of the Southeast NHC this year REFUSE to do it next year. Find another club to host, we are burnt out. So, what does this have to do with the AHA? Well, our club also provided alot of the stewards for the World Beer Cup prior to the microbrewers conference in Atlanta in April. Technically, this competition was not run by the AHA, but some offshoot of the AOB. I suspect that the offshoot is just to provide a fancy job description for someone and to deflect blame. Let's just say the AHA employees and associates had a large presence, and were effectively the managers if the volunteers had questions. Stewards worked 8 to 5 Friday and Saturday, and were invited to the party for the judges at the competitions end. Rather unceremoniously, stewards were uninvited just as the competition ended. Supposedly to save money b/c there wouldn't be enough food ( there was lots of food left ).Now Brian Rezac tried to get us reinvited and some of us who were most angered were told to go anyway, but really a bunch of us decided to go regardless because that was our reward for taking time from work and family as published in our stewarding handouts, plus it's our town and our friends at the microbrewery hosting the party.Now Brian is a nice guy, and he even bought me a beer at the brewpub a few of us went to prior to the party but I can't be bought that easily, it takes at least 2 beers :) Some of those flown in from Colorado actually wanted the locals to drive them to the party and then leave.I think some club members were abit soured by that experience, the wounds were too fresh for another AOB/ AHA event the next month. Lately in general it's been difficult to recruit people to judge and steward, and we have been getting a greater number of no shows. People want something for the work they do, they don't want to be used for labor and then discarded. Whether it makes it to their profit sheet or not, the AHA takes alot of money for these contests and receives alot of free labor. The locals are overworked and generally feel underpaid.Intuitively I know there's money being made using local labor and alot of BJCP judges. True, I'll get judging points FROM THE BJCP, and I've received an engraved bottle opener that doubles as a weapon and a gift certificate for my organizational labor in the past, but most people working these events don't get squat from the AHA/AOB. The trend aspect of homebrewing is in decline, (hopefully cigars will also) and let's be honest, Zymurgy sucks lately.Most of the articles are not very well done or informative, maybe it's there just for ad revenue like some of the fashion mags.I hear besides declining membership the AHA is actually decreasing employee number, Charlie only wants Brian and the lady who disinvited us to run the whole thing, but that's just rumor. I think they need more employees because they appear overworked for the events and other stuff they do all year.I am not too happy with Charlie I'd be the first to admit. During the WBC he or some other judge who also just happens to make AHA/AOB employees become quickly obsequious and deferrential didn't like that I joked a tiny bit with one of the judges at my table (Charlie's at that same table but I'm not serving his group) while the rather relaxed judging was going on, and while I had nothing to do and so a long chain of people were whispered to and eventually I was given alittle talking to, although no-one spoke to the judge I laughed with, cause he was still making me laugh the rest of the session. What I didn't like is that I was treated like a child and not a grown woman, and wasn't told nicely but directly, and most of all, I got the same feeling as when I was told to kiss the Bishop's ring at my conformation: repulsion. Everybody kisses Charlie's ring like they have to or like they are supposed to because they see other people doing it, not because they enjoy it. Sounds like a corporate culture in serious need of a decontamination,maybe not a purging. Let's be honest again, Charlie runs the show, poorly, and even if Jesus and His Pals worked there they couldn't with all their great personalitiies and nice guyness overcome the malaise of the membership unless some VISIBLE and POSITIVE changes are made. As members we have a right to voice our disappointments. As members we could individually not renew by putting the renewal notices in the circular file, but our voice appears to be louder on this forum, and we want an organization to further homebrewing, run competitions and send us a magazine with more than reader culled recipes. We want the AHA to do it's stated job better,and we are paying them to do that job.Is resistence futile, is Charlie like Castro, will we have to wait for him to expire for real change? I don't know, but past achievements can't be used to cover your ass forever. Lee (sorry for the long post, it makes up for a long period of lurking) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 22:57:19 -0400 From: dbgrowler at juno.com (michael w bardallis) Subject: Indian Chai beer *Dave Johnson asks about my friend Rezac's spiced beer recipe* The recipe is published in "A Year of Beer" (Brewers Publications). Mike Bardallis Allen Park, MI Deutsch Pils, Scottish Export, and Bob's Steam (guest beer) currently on tap. Large selection in bottles. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 21:44:01 -0600 From: "Scott Nichols" <snichols at digitech.com> Subject: Dextrins and Head Retention >In HBD 2734 Al Korzonas says: >Scott writes that dextrins can contribute to head retention. I'm a tad skeptical. >Where did you read this Scott? I know they can contribute somewhat to >the body and mouthfeel of the beer, but head retention? Hubert Hanghoefer agrees with Al in HBD 2737. I believe Scott is right when he states that dextrins can contribute to head retention. Meilgaard writes in Chapter 6 of The Practical Brewer, "It is said that the alpha glucans are important for foam, body, and CO2 retention", he later continues, "Beer foam appears to be caused mainly by neutral "proteins" above 12,000 MW associated with carbohydrates and with hops bitter substances." Recall alpha glucans are also called dextrins. I would also believe the nice head you see sitting on top of a Belgian Ale is supplied by the addition of sugar as an adjunct. Regards, Scott Nichols Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 01:13:11 -0400 From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu> Subject: Re: MCAB rule interpretation >>>>> "Samuel" == Samuel Mize <smize at prime.imagin.net> writes: Samuel> The other method that Mr. Bonham described seems more Samuel> intuitive: "the highest placing QS beer in the larger Samuel> ribbon category is certified as the MCAB qualifying beer." Samuel> One obvious problem is that most competitions don't rank Samuel> more than the top three or four in a category. What if Samuel> none of these is in the MCAB sub-category? This one is actually easy. The judges are instructed that, in the event that no (dry stout) makes the top 3, they should select the best (dry stout), as well. If there is a second round, each flight in the first round should forward at least one (dry stout) to the second round. There, that wasn't so hard, was it? =Spencer Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 00:35:58 -0500 From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at ames.net> Subject: The Jethro Gump Report The Jethro Gump Report AHA/Rezac/Comp's... FOR THE RECORD....My only intent was to state my opinion that I didn't believe that the whole affair could lie at the feet of any one individual....and when that individual was not only well known to me, but also away from the fray for a fortnight....I felt the urge to step up to the podium.... I have never had any intention of publicly slamming any individual or organization, though those of you who have received my private e-mails will realize that while I do have opinions on some matters, I have tried to be fair and prudent on the public domains. (And fully expect my private communications to remain that way. God knows I have deleted more than I have sent.) BUT, being aware of dissention from within the HB community towards the AHA, and honestly, not being able to disagree that there are some issues that could have, and SHOULD have been handled differently... I still gotta say.. I started with NCJOHB, and had that come full circle when Charlie Papazian hung the Gold for Barleywine at GABF '96 around my neck. I am as proud today, as I was then, for all that the AOB/AHA/IBS organization has done for me, even when they DIDN'T know me.... (You may, or may not, be surprised to hear that there is also a degree of dissention within the ranks of the IBS, the pro-brewers org.) I have not come to bury, nor praise Caesar. Just telling it as I have seen it. And as I have seen it....Brian deserves my support...maybe yours too... No, I don't have the full story on the competition judging...though I hope that over the next few days, I might still learn more, and maybe be enough of a jerk to annoy some folks to get back together... I am certain that the whole story resembles a 360 degree circle, and while some individuals may have any number of degrees of completion of the circle as personal knowledge, and while many of those degrees may overlap, NO ONE at this point has all 360. I am also certain that if only just a few apologies were made, from 'both' sides of the fence, we could move on. It is obvious that many folks have come away from this affair with less than the joy that we expect from the 'hopeful' outcome of brewers getting together with other brewers....and while there remains work to be done, I fully expect that there are those that at this point wish to step up and get what needs to be done....done. Those hopeful brewers, as I have been on at least one occasion, when entering a contest, deserve the best that we, the HOMEBREW COMMUNITY, can give them. Please, let's get their desires accomodated, if not our own. When THAT is done, we can get back to our regularly scheduled programme.. And Now For Something Completely Different!!! "FAREWELL, AUNTY JACK, WE KNOW YOU'LL BE BACK...." Sorry....must have been the Pride of Ringwood aroma! New AHA Director Appointed.... Paul Gatzo, proprietor of the Boulder, Colorado, homebrew shop, "What's Brewing," has been appointed to the position of AHA Director, effective in about 6 weeks, Jethro's southeastern correspondent reports..... You read it here first.......on the Jethro Gump Report! Jethro welcomes Paul aboard, and wishes him the best in his new position. I can guarantee one thing, he has a damn fine staff. The Practical Brewer.... I have been in contact with Mary at MBAA on this, and she sends her apologies... But, as the next edition is due by the end of the year, and the last sale of the Practical Brewer at the recent convention sold for 20 bucks, and as Mary sez...it can only get less expensive as time goes on... Anyhoo, I'm waiting to hear from Connie Hanner, senior administrator for the MBAA, on where to get the current edition.... When I know, so shall you... Starkbier/Porter.. Court Avenue Brewing Company's Head Brewer, Steve Zimmerman, has recently made not only a pretty fine brew, but has also allowed me to share it with you.... This is for a 8.5 BBL batch...scale it as you see fit.... Malt.. 350 lbs Schreier 2 row 75 lbs Schreier Caramel 60 50 lbs DWC Caramel Pils 25 lbs DWC Chocolate 25 lbs DWC Special B 6 lbs DWC Black Malt Mash.. at 67 C for 60/60 Hops.. 27 US Oz Chinook (12.7 alpha) 90/60 20 US Oz Kent Goldings (6.7 alpha) 15/60 20 US Oz Kent Goldings (6.7 alpha) Beginning of Whirlpool Yeast.. Wyeast 1742 Swedish Ale at 23 C..(Give me an 'E', ESTER!) A fine beer, to my taste. But what the hell do I know? Scott Abene.. What's the deal with your server?? Can't get a word in edgewise... Jethro Gump "The More I Know About Brewers, The More I Realize We Need To Work Together!" Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 08:32:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Russ Kruska <R.KRUSKA at CGNET.COM> Subject: Poppet Valves One big question: I have pin lock kegs of all types and they are getting a bit old. I use keg lube etc. on all rubber parts including poppet valves. Nonetheless, the poppets are starting to wear out. I understand there are 3 different types of poppet valves. Surely there must be someone who sells all 3 types and would have pictures of the 3 types on a web page ??? Some retailers say 'send your old poppets' with your order, but i can't afford to do that (I live in Kenya). Thanks. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 06:49:39 -0500 (CDT) From: folsom at ix.netcom.com (Alan Folsom) Subject: Re: Blueberry vs. Raspberry? Tom Alearts writes: >So are there people who homemade both kinds of beer? I have not >tasted a blueberry beer yet, and I would like to know if one or >the other is obviously significantly better than the other. I would definately choose the raspberry. Blueberry gives a very subtle flavor which fades overtime to an indistinct fruitiness. At least, it has when I've made them. Raspberry has a much more pronounced flavor which lasts well. Having said that, I recently tasted a blueberry beer at a competition which had a very nice flavor. I'd like to know how they did it! cheers, Al F. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 05:02:15 PDT From: "Rosenzweig,Steve" <Steve_Rosenzweig at wb.xerox.com> Subject: Briess Data Point In HBD 2738, Frederick L. Pauly says he had a problem with Briess 2 row: Here is another data point: >From October 97 to May 98 I used 3 - 50# bags of Briess 2 row - all purchased at different times and from different lots to no ill effect - actually they were some of the best beers I have made to date. In fact, on a Porter and a Vienna, I was finally able to place in a contest in which I had no luck the last few years . . . I would suggest examining your procedures as well, just in case there was a change there along with the malt that allowed you to brew batches more to your liking. Steve Brewing in Ontario NY Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 08:05:35 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rodney Bender (717) 787-4973" <BENDER.RODNEY at a1.pader.gov> Subject: MCAB at BHC This is in response to Mr. Murphy's "question" concerning the best beer from the BHC which is moving on to the MCAB. I am the brewer of that dry stout that qualified. You state in your post that the best dry stout from that competition should move on. The way I see it, the 13 dry stout entries were judged by a panel, after reviewing the scores of these beers the best dry stout was selected as the winner of the QSqualifier round. I'm not sure how close the scores may have been, but with this panel this is the way it turned out. When all the stout entries were judged for the competition, a different panel of judges evidently scored the beers differently. (Look at your score sheets and see the difference in scores and comments) I'm sure your beer is a great beer,I also feel that my beer is a great beer. Which is the best dry stout of the Competition? Who can say for sure, judging is subjective. That day it happened to go in my favor, another it may have gone in yours. I can see your concern about the clarity of the rules, I really didn't know how they were handling it either. I can just assume that they are a reputable organization and that they run their event in a professional manner. I also wanted to add that I am from Elizabethtown, PA and am in no way affiliated with the BHC. Also to respond to one of Louis Bonham's suggested ways of handling this situation, how can you consider decertifying my current dry stout qualifier? Did it not win in its QS round, as the BHC chose to qualify the MCAB qualifier? By doing something like this, you would just be opening another can of worms! Best of luck John at other qualifying events. Thanks! Rod Bender The Brewmasters, E-town, PA Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 08:26:50 -0400 From: fridge at Imbecile.kzoo.edu Subject: Grabbing the good rate Greetings folks, Gary Nazelrod asks if shutting a fridge off for 8 hours per day would harm it. The short answer is: Not likely, but there are a few things to consider (There's always a catch). If the fridge is a manual defrost model or a chest freezer, the compressor, maybe a light and possibly a door heater are the only major electrical components in the system. There will be a slightly greater load on the compressor when pulling the cabinet temperature down from a higher than normal value but this shouldn't cause any problems. Frost-free models routinely cycle the compressor off and energize heating elements to melt accumulated ice from the evaporator coil. This happens every 8 hours or so. The compressor is restarted at the end of the defrost period which pulls the higher than normal cabinet temperature back down to setpoint. So what Gary wants to do is done routinely on most modern fridges. There should be no compressor problems. There may be other considerations, however. If using a frost-free fridge, consider the fact that these units are more complex than the manual defrost models and often have anti- sweat heaters around the door frame. If the fridge is located in a humid area, the cabinet may sweat around the door gaskets when the power is cut. Another consideration for a frost-free fridge is the defrost timer. You may find that after having the power cut during the day, that the defrost timer puts the fridge through a defrost cycle shortly after restarting it, which will elevate the cabinet temperature even higher. This shouldn't harm the fridge, but may not be great if you're trying to hold a fermentation temperature. In any case, keeping as large a thermal mass in the cabinet as is possible will help even out any temperature fluctuations throughout the day. On another subject, Ron Warner posted a public "thank you" that I'd like to publicly acknowledge. Kind words help make my day. Thanks, Ron. FridgeGuy is my way of giving something back to the HBD community in exchange for the wealth of brewing knowledge I have gained from this forum. Thanks to all of you. Hope this helps! Forrest Duddles - FridgeGuy in Kalamazoo fridge at Imbecile.kzoo.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 08:32:02 -0400 From: James Tomlinson <red_beards at compuserve.com> Subject: Polyclar use specifics I've tried finding information about the most effective way to use Polyclar. There seems to be very little in the way of description of use except the debate between mixing it with water first or using it directly dry. Knowing that it is acting as a simulated protien to complex with the tannins, and knowing that chill haze forms when the beer is cold, what is the best proceedure for use ? Add it to the beer warm , then chill. Chill first then add ? With water or without ? Part 2, I normally dry hop my pale ales pretty excessively (1.5 oz/5 gallon). Also knowing that hops add some tannins. Will this be adding a lot to my chill haze potential ? I am trying polyclar after dry hopping, but again, see above. With the dry hopping, do I just need to add more Polyclar ? I'm using about 2 tbsp per 5 gallons at present. - -- James Tomlinson Give a man a beer, and he wastes an hour. But teach a man how to brew, and he wastes a lifetime! Moody Waters Brewery Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 09:36:59 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Easy Chiller 00bkpickeril at bsuvc.bsu.edu (Brian Pickerill) wrote: >PS. I guess we'll never see an "Easy Chiller." Best thing I've read on HBD in days! Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: 12 Jun 1998 09:41:16 -0400 From: EFOUCH at steelcase.com Subject: Hops Bines HBD- A question or two 'bout hops bines.... My hops are all a good 18' in the air, and developing nicely. However, one of the bines right near the ground (Northern Brewer) has split open- a split about 8 inches long. The rest of the bine looks fine. AMHR? Also- The mounds are all at the base of my deck. They have to go 5' in the air before they get full sun. I noticed that the leaves below the "sun line" have a kind of white crispy edges, and are papery brittle. The crumble if you squeeze 'em. Above the sun line, they look fine and are not brittle. Anybody know what could be causing this? Lack of sun? Mineral deficiency? The soil was clay, to which I added quite a bit of peat and compost. I have not checked to soil pH. Thanks for any help. Eric Fouch Bent Dick HopsFarm Kentwood, MI (Hockeytown West) GO WINGS!!! Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 98 08:36:20 CST From: bthumm at entergy.com Subject: Re: Blueberry vs. Raspberry >>> So are there people who homemade both kinds of beer? I have not tasted a blueberry beer yet, and I would like to know of one or the other is obviously significantly better than the other. <<< I have made both. I personally prefer raspberry wheat and blueberry ale (i.e., non-wheat...). Not that I prefer either to a non-fruit beer, but my girlfriend loves fruit beers, and having made several raspberry and blueberry beers for her, again, raspberry in wheat and blueberry in non-wheat beers. However...to address your cost issue.... ...you need more blueberries. My experience is that the blueberry flavour is weaker than the raspberry. I use 1 pound of raspberries per gallon (i.e., your 6.6 pounds would make a good 6 gallon batch of raspberry wheat.) I use at least 1.5 pounds per gallon of blueberries. I often boil up 6.5 gallons for a batch, and I use roughly 10 pounds of blueberries. So your cost issue is really a wash. Raspberries cost more, but you should use more blueberries. But this is all one man's opinion. I could be wrong. Brian Thumm Pier 147 Home Brewery Baton Rouge, LA Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 98 08:45:09 CST From: bthumm at entergy.com Subject: Re: How to assess recipe quality? >>> You can find 5 clone recipes for a certain commercial beer. But the contents of the recipes often differ widely! And of course, the comments of each recipe usually state that "it is the best beer I have ever tasted". So one of those recipes must be a lot closer to the real thing, but is it possible to predict this? <<< My comments? Try to find a clone recipe from the manufacturer. Following an interview with the folks from Sierra Nevada, a magazine (it escapes me now...might have been Brew Your Own) published a recipe for SNPA. Having talked to the SNPA folks, the recipe claims to have used the same malt, same hops, and correct amounts. And it was startlingly close. (I'm no professional brewer, and my technique is a little lacking, but I bet there are several people in this digest who could have used the recipe and made it come out even closer.) The best Pete's Wicked Ale clone was sent to me by Pete's themselves. Whether or not it was the true recipe, I don't know, but again it was the best clone recipe I have found for Pete's...The Longshot brews (do they still make those?) had the recipe on the bottom of the six-pack carton. My belabored point...the best clone recipes come from the brewer. All else is probably trial and error. But this is all one man's opinion. I could be wrong. Brian Thumm Pier 147 Home Brewery Baton Rouge, LA Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 10:02:44 -0400 From: Bob.Sutton at fluordaniel.com Subject: When to spice a Wit Louis Bonham <lkbonham at phoenix.net> wrote: >Sorry, John, but I'll have to ask you for at least the fourth time. <snip> Gee guys, enough banter already - let's take this off-line, resolve your differences, and then come back and share your consensus. *** In other news Jack S. tells us about the "World's Greatest Beer"... Coming from an astronomer I'm surprised at Jack's modesty. Come on Jack - you really meant to say the Galaxy's Best Beer didn't you. *** When is Dave returning form vacation. I did a word search of the archives for "Clinitest" and found no recent posts. *** I thought I'd try an overnight post-boil cool, but temps here in Sawth Caroline, haven't dropped below 78... Guess it will be a few weeks before I can add the yeast... *** I embarking on a Wit - nothing earth-shaking mind you, but I wanted to know when is the most appropriate time to add coriander and bitter orange. Is it better suited to the secondary, or the last few minutes of the boil. TIA. All for now... Bob Fruit Fly Brewhaus Yesterdays' Technology Today! Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 10:19:44 EDT From: OCaball299 at aol.com Subject: Re: Recognition for uncommon kindness >Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 21:40:09 -0400 >From: Ron Warner <rwarner at annap.infi.net> >Subject: Recognition for uncommon kindness > >I won't take much b'width here but I feel compelled to declare to the >group the appreciation I have for the assistance I have received from >the FridgeGuy from Michigan. Mr. Duddles has spent very valuable time >giving me instruction/direction in great detail and clarity regarding a >refrigeration conversion project. He is a true educator and deserves >recognition for his willingness to share his expertise with the group so >gently and clearly. > > I second that. Fridge Guy has provided me with valuable info/guidance. THAT'S what this is all about... HELPING each other. ... now back to the bashing... :( Omar Caballero - Aurora, IL "Live long and prosper" - Mr. Spock ... and have another Homebrew! Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 10:45:14 -0500 From: Tim Burkhart <tburkhart at dridesign.com> Subject: 1) Cellar temp again Due to the lack of any response from my first post, I would like to humbly post my question again about cellar temperature. I have a 1056 bottled porter that has matured a month, and I would like to lay down at least a case for 3 months or more to see how it changes over time. My cellar has remained at a constant 68f this spring, and hopefully into the summer. I don't have enough fridge space so I'm stuck with the cellar. Is 68f too warm for an extended conditioning of this beer? Will this temp merely give it a shorter lifespan or will it have no effect at all? Thanks. Tim Burkhart, Kansas City Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 98 10:42:05 CDT From: jwilkins at wss.dsccc.com (John Wilkinson) Subject: RE: cooling isn't cool? I think I will do as Dr. Pivo suggests and split a batch into chilled with a cf chiller and cooled slowly overnight for comparison. I have wondered about a lot of the procedures I have accepted blindly since I started brewing. Some of it seems to make sense but that doesn't necessarily make it valid. If a process is simple I usually go ahead and do it rather than risk a batch of beer. I have on several occasions forgotten steps or just screwed up and have done what is usually considered unspeakable things to my beer with no apparent bad results. Skunking by sunlight is one thing I am sceptical of. I have had many a beer in clear glasses out in the bright afternoon Texas sun and have never noticed any skunking. I usually brew outside and I have run off from the kettle through clear tubing in the bright summer sun and aerated by pouring between buckets in the same bright sun without affect noticeable by me. It has been suggested that my sense of skunking is deficient and perhaps that is true. It also may be true that the danger is not quite what it is reputed to be. Also, that pouring of beer to aerate it is supposed to be a dangerous practice due to airborne nasties. I have never had an infection from it. I realize that I may have just been lucky and that if I repeatedly violate the rules I may get stung but some would have you to believe that some of my practices (beer in sunlight, for instance) are sure death to good beer. I have not found that to be so. So, I will join Dr. Pivo in his experiment. some may argue that our sense of DMS is deficient if we don't detect any but if we try our experiments with a few other tasters that should reduce that possibility. Of course, there is the possibility that Jack S. will be proved wrong and "conventional wisdom" proved right. That is fine, too. Iconoclasts of the world unite! You have nothing to loose but your momilies. John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkins at wss.dsccc.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 98 08:44:00 -0800 From: Jack Phillips <jphillip at FUTUREX.COM> Subject:BIG BREW update from site ??? Hello fellow beerlings - Got a call on Saturday night from Beth Zangary that the BW was ready to keg/bottle, so I should show up around 11:00am at the brewery to participate in this fun event. Arrived promptly at eleven to find Beth, Pat Kennealy and Brian Schwind already there. After a brief discussion with Terry Bonham the owner/master brewer at Jack Russell Brewing about current C02 levels, krausening, clearing the takeout tube and pulling the yeast we were ready to start. We decided to fill kegs first then bottle( we had quite a few club members who wanted it bottled) The original batch was 7.5 barrels into the fermenter. This was reduced somewhat by those who wished to take the wort home and pitch their own yeast. Things went well and we finished filling all the keg's by 12:30 - 1:00. Everybody thought this was great and expected the bottling to go as quickly. As the line loss in the bottling line could be as high as half a barrel we decided to hand bottle. One counter pressure filler, one bottle capper and 45 cases of clean and sanitized bottles = approximately 7 hours of work. As we decided to hand bottle we also decided to pull the beer from the yeast port rather than the takeout to keep the loss to a minimum. As Terry didn't have the sight tube attached, and because we were pulling beer from below the takeout, we had a protracted discussion as to how much brew was left based on Terry's original volume figures less the 55 gallons which was transferred to corny keg's. This discussion usually went something like this "how much more of this stuff is there"? uttered by various individuals, followed by Brian Schwind saying something to the effect "we should be getting close" . We were close at 5:00, 5:30, 6:30, 7:15 and when we finished it was 8:45pm, with another 45 minutes or so cleaning up. Of course we all vowed to do it again....with some slight modifications. The freshly fermented beer tasted great and should be ready around the Xmas holidays (how convenient can it get). I would like to say thanks to Terry for allowing a large group of us home brewers to use the brewery for this project. Terry provided tips, techniques, was always present to answer any questions, and allowed a 15 bbl fermenter to be taken out of production for over a month. Enjoy Brewing on the timberline - Jack P. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 09:22:24 -0700 From: "Gregory A. Lorton" <glorton at cts.com> Subject: Re: Sluggish ferment w/ Chimay yeast (from Dean Fikar)/Lambics (from Jason Gorman) In HBD 2738, Dean Fikar talks about making a Trippel with Chimay yeast (red cap), but the fermentation seems to have stalled at 1.027 after 16 days, having started at 1.078. Should he add some of his Wyeast 3068 Weihenstephan Wheat starter. My suggestion would be to get a Wyeast 1214 Belgian Abbey smack pack instead. I seem to recall having heard that this yeast originally came from Chimay. My wife Liz and I have made a number of tripels that have done well in competitions using the 1214 yeast, and it hardly ever lets me down. We usually start with an OG of 1.080 to 1.090, and we end up with final gravities around 1.015 to 1.017. Last summer, Liz made her own tripel for the Queen of Beer competition that started at 1.088 and finished at 1.013. Her primary fermentation was unbelievable, 1.088 to 1.016 in three days. It blew two quarts out of a 3-gallon fermenter. We invariably get higher apparent attenuations than the 72% to 76% that Wyeast lists for the 1214. One other thing we do is to make sure we've got a warm fermentation (at least 70F, preferably 75F). When the primary fermenter is really cranking, the isoamyl acetate banana aroma fills the garage. The higher the temperature, the more esters we get, and the faster it goes. I would imagine that the 3068 would give a pronounced banana aroma and flavor, but the phenol contribution from 3068 might be different than one would expect from a tripel. But that combination might make for an interesting, complex beer. Finally, when we made our first tripel five years ago, we used the 1214 yeast (just the smacked pack - no starter) but had no apparent activity for 38 hours. We then added a pack of Whitbread dry ale yeast directly to the primary, and had full activity at 48 hours. But then the beer that came out was full of the estery-phenolic character of a tripel. The 1214 critters must have been quietly multiplying and growing. When we dumped in the ale yeast we pushed it over the edge. That one did well in contest also. Bottom line: try the Wyeast 1214, but any of your suggestions will probably work. Most of the Belgian character is probably already there in going from 1.078 to 1.027. __________ Jason Gorman asked about how to make hops stale for a lambic... I remember reading in Brewing Techniques last year that Jim Liddil just puts his hops out in the sun for a week or two for his lambics. But then he's in Tucson (but it's a DRY heat). Maybe three weeks in a more temperate climate. I'm trying that myself now for a framboise. Greg Lorton Brewing in San Diego (really Carlsbad), and trying to hide from Charles Hudak Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 09:41:52 -0700 From: John Palmer <jjpalmer at gte.net> Subject: Cleaning your nightmare Hi Dave, It depends on what type of flux you used. Did you use a petroleum jelly based paste, or a clear liquid type? The jelly pastes need to be dissolved off with a solvent. Unless you have access to acetone or other industrial solvents, your best bet is high octane gasoline. Then you need to get rid of that! Fortunately, hot water and detergent should take care of that with lots of rinsing. The liquid fluxes can be washed off with detergents and water. For final cleaning, I recommend white distilled vinegar. John Palmer Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 11:59:20 -0500 From: "Jeffrey M. Kenton" <jkenton at iastate.edu> Subject: Yeast Refinement Howdy. I have just a few more questions about yeast and yeast management. Thanks go out to all those who have emailed their wisdom. Here are my questions: 1. When preparing a yeast starter solution, I have often seen it written that the (insert your favorite synonym for bodies) of dead yeast make excellent yeast nutrient. I make my starters in 1 liter increments. How much (slurry from my carboy/yeast from extract can packs) should I add to the starter to meet the yeast nutrition needs? 2. I have also read that yeast should be "started" or stepped up in wort solution that matches approximately the gravity/bitterness of the wort in the fermentor. I have also read that a weak glucose solution with yeast nutrient is just as effective. I want to avoid having to make a wheat-containing starter wort for a hefeweizen starter, or to hugely hop a starter for an IPA. I aerate with an aquarium stone, and when I use wort, the foam is a real PITA. What is a good general compromise? 3. Should yeast also be propogated at the same temperatures as fermentation, or can I put the starter vessel in a warm dark corner of my house? 4. How can an amateur without access to methylene blue decide/determine the viability of the yeast on a slant/in the bottom of a bottle of homebrew? 5. Are there brewers out there who actually would be willing to "trade" slants? I am looking to build a yeast library when I get my ranching skills up to snuff, and there is no reason why others can't benefit/help. 6. What is the best way to restock beer bullets? I just got a line on an autoclave (electric) that might use up quite a few of them. I really want to keep my wife AND the autoclave, if it works out. Thanks for the time/space. I love the HBD Jeff Jeffrey M. Kenton jkenton at iastate.edu Ames, Iowa brewer at iastate.edu Return to table of contents
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