HOMEBREW Digest #2768 Wed 15 July 1998

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Irish Moss (Dwayne Robert McKeel)
  RE:Temp Controllers ("Marc Battreall")
  RE: Grain Mill post/Newbie Questions ("Marc Battreall")
  "Baby Leave" (Some Guy)
  Rusty Gauges (Hutch)
  language, grainlist (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at akzonobel.com>
  more crystal/'spearments/others ("Steve Alexander")
  Slaked Lime (AJ)
  Sanitizing with Alcohols (James Tomlinson)
  Bleach, Iodine, or other? ("Jim Hinze")
  Fridge operating cost (fridge)
  re: using spoiled beer (Lou Heavner)
  Recipie percentages and specialty malts (David Rinker)
  Coffee and Oatmeal in a stout... (Badger Roullett)
  History of the Stout.. (Badger Roullett)
  Red Ale; lactic beer; namelessness (Samuel Mize)
  More fridge, sanitation ("Graham, Bill")
  Re: New AHA Nameless...yadda yadda (Alan Edwards)
  What to do; where to go in Portland, Ore (John Biggins)
  How much crystal in your PA ? ("Steve Alexander")
  Re:Re: "Jethro Gump Report" (The Holders)
  a simple way to deoxygenate water (Dirk Server)
  How to dilute homebrew.... ("Gregg Soh")
  Starters (AJ)
  RE: Hop Combinations ("Marc Battreall")
  Hop "burr" stage (John Murphy)
  ponkins (dbgrowler)
  Gump; true measure; small servings (Samuel Mize)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 17:59:24 -0400 From: Dwayne Robert McKeel <drmckeel at twave.net> Subject: Irish Moss Greetings fellow beer nuts, In HBD2765 Steve Alexander comments on the effectiveness of irish moss (IM). I contend that the proper way to gauge the effectiveness of IM is by the amount of hot break left in your kettle. Not that I disagree with Steve's decision to stop using IM, it is a personal decision based on his on brewing techniques, results and desires. No one is qualified to pass judgement on that but Steve. However, for myself, I find that using IM helps to leave enough proteinaceous matter in the kettle to make the effort and cost worth while. Obviously, how effective the IM is will depend on several factors including; grist bill, hop charge, boil lenght, vigor of boil, mashing technique, whirl pooling, method and rate of cooling and other factors. As for clarity of the finished product, I find that removing the fermenting wort off from the cold break is just as important as the amount of hot break left in the kettle. Without knowing Steve personally, from his results I would expect that he is quite diligent about this. I also find that this method produces a cleaner tasting beer. I suspect it also may help remove potential nutrient for spoiling organisms. Any comments on this last point? It is beyond the scope of my education and experiences. Overall I would say that any method that safely and easily removes these high molecular weight proteins from the wort/beer is worth the effort. On another note, does anyone have any experience on minimizing mold contaminations? I too have a basement brewery and am concerned with mold and other non-yeast fungi. We talk so much about bacteria that little discussion is made of these other wort spoilers. I am quite familiar with bacteria and how to deal with them, but I am unsure of fungi, other than the usual sanitation techniques. Wassail Dwayne (I never met a beer I didn't want to brew) McKeel Musty Olde Cellar Homebrewery PS: please note I said "brew", not drink. While I may find it challenging to brew some beers, I don't necessarily like drinking them! Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 21:30:05 -0400 From: "Marc Battreall" <batman at terranova.net> Subject: RE:Temp Controllers Victor asks about after market temperature controllers in HDB2765: Victor, I also wanted to have an extra refrigerator for lagering and fermenting mostly because I live in South Florida where the temps are, well, you know. I picked up an old (quote old) refrig free from a friend. It has the old style freezer compartment up top with the drip tray below it and the main compartment all encompassed behind one door. I can fit 2 carboys or 4 Corny kegs or a combination. Anyway, after trying to use the factory thermostat to control the temp using Setting 1-2-3-4-5 and so forth I finally decided to get an after market thermostat. I waffled back and forth one which one to get, inquired to this forum like you are doing and I finally decided on one and haven't regretted it for a second. I splurged for what I consider to be a top of the line model with +/- 2 degree compensation (4 degree total differential). I don't think that my compressor runs much more now than it did before provided that I don't constantly open the door, which was hard to do at first (remember the old adage, does the light turn off when you close the door?). But then again because this refrig was free, I probably don't share the same concern for it as I would for a unit that I paid for. The thermostat I bought is called a Ferm Temp and I got it from Brewer's Resource.(not affiliated). It's a bit pricey at $110 but as far as I am concerned it was worth it (so far). I have had it about 18 months and not a complaint. It is a solid state unit and has a 6 foot cord which looks to be the same as a modular phone cord where it plugs into the unit and a small temp probe on the other end about the size of the end of your pinky finger. It fits through the door seal just about anywhere without compromising the seal that much at all. No drilling or special adapters are needed and I had mine up and running in about 10 minutes. In fact, I am lagering a Bohemian Pilsner in there as of this writing that is stabilized at 52 degrees according to the cheap $2 Fermometer glued on the side of the carboy which coincides with exactly what the Ferm Temp says it is. Oh well, I am happy anyway. If you have one of their catalogs you can read up about it on page 27 if you haven't done so already, if not I am sure its on their web page. There are alot of other units out there for ALOT less money that would do the job fine I am sure, but I thought you might enjoy the testimony. Good Luck and happy ferments to you! Marc ======================= Captain Marc Battreall Backcountry Brewhouse Islamorada, Florida batman at terranova.net captainbrew at hotmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 22:52:47 -0400 From: "Marc Battreall" <batman at terranova.net> Subject: RE: Grain Mill post/Newbie Questions Hello to all, and Mark and Ian, Sorry I didn't attach this quick post to my last one but it slipped my mind. I just wanted to comment on the post that Mark Fletcher made in HBD2765 about the grain mill he fashioned out of a pizza dough roller. (I believe he said it was his first post). I gotta tell ya, and I think most of you will agree. Is this guy a story writer or what?? If not maybe an English professor? Well, if he's not either one of those I would encourage him to become a beer journalist or something along those lines!! That was one of the most well written posts I have seen in a while. I hope that it was a true story, but if not, what the heck, I enjoyed it anyway!! This guy can really spin a yarn and I look forward to seeing his next one. Now that's what I call a "digest"!!! PS. Mark, stand by for Sam's Forthcoming Welcome Message!! Ian asks about a homebrewing equipment kit in the same digest; Ian, if that was not a misprint and you are going to buy all that stuff for $10-$15, then I say go for it. Even if the homebrewing hobby doesn't hook you, you're only out a few dollars. If it does bite you, (and I'm betting it does!) then no matter how far you advance or how complex your equipment array becomes, you will most likely always have that original equipment and find a use for it, brewing or otherwise. I still have most of the stuff I got with my first "kit" from years ago and use it everytime I brew. My first "primary fermentor" is scratched beyond safe use, but it stills does a fine job of transporting 4 dozen shrimp from the bait store to the live well in my boat!! Know what I mean Vern?? Good Luck and welcome to the club! PS. Ian, you too can standby for Sam's Forthcoming Welcome Message!! Cheers Marc ======================= Captain Marc Battreall Backcountry Brewhouse Islamorada, Florida batman at terranova.net captainbrew at hotmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 23:31:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Some Guy <pbabcock at oeonline.com> Subject: "Baby Leave" Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... Due to the arrival of my fourth (announcement *should* be in this Digest - long queue!), I am taking two weeks as vacation (Starting Monday, 7/13) from work and the Digest in order to help this little stranger and my family acclimate to each other - as well as catch up on a couple of years' worth of undone projects (maybe even brew up some beer...). In the meantime, please do not start a "Did you see that SPAM? Rotten janitors..." thread should something unpalatable slip by. If anyone does start such a thread, I ask that the reasonable subscribers please cajole them in private e-mail. Thanks! (And don't be too shocked should I still manage to peek in from time to time: I have the most understanding wife in the entire cosmos. Believe me. It's true.) See ya! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at oeonline.com Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/brew.html "Just a cyber-shadow of his former brewing self..." Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 00:37:06 -0400 From: Hutch <kahlua at intrepid.net> Subject: Rusty Gauges A few HBD back someone asked about putting a CO2 bottle and regulator in the fridge and asked if this would hurt anything? One thing that I learned that you might want to watch for is condensation forming on the regulator. You can end up with condensation in the gauge, or If your regulator has metal gauges or exposed metal parts these can rust/corrode. This may or may not affect the operation/accuracy depending on how bad it gets. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 09:30:04 +0200 From: "Aikema, J.N. (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at akzonobel.com> Subject: language, grainlist Brewers, I'm looking for the right translation of beer in Portuguese, Finish, Swedish and Danish. Can anybody extend the following list ? Barley, wheat, oats, rye, maize, sorghum, rice, millet, buckwheat, spelt, quinoa, wild rice, Is there a website for this kind of information? TIA, Greetings from Holland, Hans Aikema Greetings from Holland, Hans Aikema Greetings from Holland, Hans Aikema Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 07:21:44 -0400 From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: more crystal/'spearments/others John Wilkinson notes that some (certainly I) missed Mort' O'Sullivan's great post. re crystal. Thanks John - and esp Mort - but I feel that Morts post raises as many questions as it answers. In capsule form it says: malt is 25% amylose and 75% amylopectin (this checks out) stewing of crystal malt favors amylopectin-lysis [- hmm why ? all enzymes are just as short of water. - Isn't BA smaller to start with ?]] only a small % of the sugars undergo Maillard reactions and become unfermentable by this mechanism during kilning, the relatively unchanged amylose molecule recrystallize [or perhaps crystallize is better - since it's the first fime - No Mort?] and by an inexplicable mechanism become unfermentable - that is - insucceptable to amylase enzymes. regardless of malt type - high temp kilnoing => lower fermentability. First - I'm not refuting Mort's asserts - it makes good sense - but just what the *&*frab^%# is going on. Why ? do 'crystallized' amylopecins becone unfermentable. Won't they gelatinize/solubilize in the mash ??!!!?? And why is amylopectin-lysis preferrred in the stewing. Is this true in a thick mash too ? Inquiring minds want to know. OK the pectins are all frobby shaped, but come on - the w:g ratio is nearly:1:1 and at that ratio, a mash is fairly viable. No ? - -- Experiments - - -- Some few may remember that I malted my own (6-row, cattle feed, 10kg) barley a few months ago, created some crystal (in a crockpot) with ~10% of it, and using flaked maize and NewUlm yeast made a CAP with it. How is it ? Poor to mediocre. The flavor profile is very nice - except that there is a background harshness that borders on bitterness and a sort of 'horsey-ness' to the flavor profile. The color is great, the clarity is very good, the head is magnificent, the general flavor profile is great except for the stern phenolic background flavor that intrudes. Someone a few weeks ago suggested that it's "too bad" that we can't get decent malting barley seed. I must agree - but still I think that this s a worthy experiment. I've learned a great deal about the process of malting. The mash converted in ~ 15 minutes!! yeah - some enzymes. And during the drying, kilning and crystal making processes I was brought much closer to the maltsters art. Is it waste of time ? Difficult ? No way - it is the very stuff of learning/discovery/life. . I enjoyed each new discovery (and mistake). I'd strongly advise anyone with curiosity, a couple 5G pails, $6/50lb feed barley, and a drying screen to replicate the experiment. The time and effort required, tho' spead over several weeks, were less than a typical brewdays work. Like HBD - wouldn't have missed it for the world. BTW1 - it make s nice 'cream-ale' when mixed with a mild - the phenolics fade fast with dilution BTW2 - PVPP at an early stage may reduce this malts phenolic problems -I'll try is next time. BTW3 - fresh crystal is an amazing product. There is no doubt that I will be making some beers with (2-row) homemade crystal in the neer future. The flavor of my homemade crystal is a real 'Wow' factror. - -- Gardening on the HBD - - what !!! OK - well I had some leftover barley(6-row), wheat & oats this spring, so I decided to plant a sq.ft. of each in my garden. The barley is a little better than knee high, the oats - almost waist high, and the wheat in between. The barley does prominently display it's 6-row namesake. The whisker's from the tips of the barley kernels are almost 6 inches (150mm) long and form a well aligned stalk end. The wheat looks remarkably similar - except that the plants are a notch taller and the whiskers are very short. The oats are quite different - the plant is much taller, the kernels aren't all bunched in a cluster, but instead hang down from wire-thin side-stalks spaced 1-2 cm apart around the plant head. The oat kernels hanging there are somewhat reminiscent of lily-of-the-valley, only 20 inches(.6M) taller and still green - turning white at the tip.. The barley and wheat are already starting to turn dry and straw-like. Interesting fact - the barley & wheat seem to form fairly stiff kernel structures inside their husks (and outer covering shell for wheat) early. The oats, even at this late stage, have soft kernels that exude a milky starchy tasting liquid when crushed. OK - who wants to tackle barley biochemistry in the same way we've approached yeast biochemistry ? Lemme throw this out for a start. I did a calculation based on the solar constant, the yield of corn(maize) per acre in the US, and the typical oil, carbo, protein content of corn. It turns out that 0.53% of all the sunlight energy that falls on (the upper atmosphere above) a cornfield it turned into utilizeable energy in the corn kernel. Since only 80% or so of the energy reaches the earths surface, and photosynthesis (T3) is only about 35% efficient in theory, and also corn-leaves don't have 100% coverage of the field throughout the growing season. It would appear that perhaps 5-10% of the accessible energy is turned into seed, How does barley compare ? Dunno - but I'd like to find out. Anyone have yield numbers for barley ? - -- Welcome back to David Burley - who's three week hiatus was far too long, and congrat's on the son's graduation. - -- "Thomas Kramer"'s BREW DAY FROM HELL >[...]. After a few more seconds >I looked down at my feet and my toes were a bloody mess. I told my wife to >drop me off at the emergency room, and go borrow a wet vac, at start >cleaning up the mess. An hour latter I had one toe with stitched up and >tree other with bandages. Was that your typing toe ? Sorry. Carboys are inherently dangerous. Get a handle ASAP. Use a box to hold the carboy - cardboard, plasic anything (wet ones are slippery) and repeat the mantra - 'I will use two hands to move a non-empty-carboy. Also - thank probabilty you didn't have a 30cm*1cm hunk of glass severe an artery. Shoes (not sandals) and jeans are a plus too. - -- My friend Jeff Renner writes ... >You can answer this yourself by doing a thought experiment (that's how >Einstein figured out relativity; we're not as smart as Einstein, but this >isn't theoretical physics, either). Hmmm - the other side of the coin is that we ARE as smart as Einstein if only he had to deal with beer and brewing . ;^) Steve Alexander Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 08:30:25 -0400 From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com> Subject: Slaked Lime James Tomlinson asked about sources of slaked lime. While the hardware store stuff will probably do just fine I feel a little more comfortable using "pickling lime" from the canning department of the super market. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 09:42:46 -0400 From: James Tomlinson <red_beards at compuserve.com> Subject: Sanitizing with Alcohols JGORMAN at steelcase.com asked about using Isopropyl alcohol for sanitizing equipment. Fix's latest book has contact times for various sanitizers including Isopropyl Alcohol. The problem with the alcohols is their contact time is much longer than bleach or Iodophors. His recomendation was using it to keep stuff sanitary and using ethyl alcohol in a spray bottle for spot sanitiation. I've used alcohol to clean the the ourside of carboys which were fermented in my basement (A Truely horrible place for unprotected beer, but a wonderful place to ferment, presently a nice even 68 F). - -- James Tomlinson Give a man a beer, and he wastes an hour. But teach a man how to brew, and he wastes a lifetime! Muddy Waters Brewery Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 10:05:44 -0400 From: "Jim Hinze" <jhinze at vbs-net.com> Subject: Bleach, Iodine, or other? Hi Everyone. I've been lurking for a while and this is my first post, please be gentle <G>. I've been brewing on and off for about 3 years and have always used bleach for sanitation and never really had a problem or infection (knock on wood), but a recent trip to my homebrew supply store and some recent articles have got me wondering... Is bleach really the best alternative, should I be using iodine or some other substance? Does it make a big difference? I tried to do a search back to 1997 and didn't find much...If this has been discussed already, accept my apologizes. Thanks in advance... Jim Hinze Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 10:28:16 -0400 From: fridge at Imbecile.kzoo.edu Subject: Fridge operating cost Greetings folks, In HBD 2766, "Alldey" Paul gives some further data about his fridge that seems to run too much, and asks for help to determine the monthly operating cost. The 2-3 minutes on and 2-3 minutes off he reports is close to a 50% duty cycle, which is about normal for a newer, fully loaded fridge. This info differs from the first post where the fridge ran for 20 minutes plus and the temperature didn't drop under similar operating conditions. What changed? To calculate a rough estimate of the operating cost we will need the amp draw of the complete fridge, the approximate run time per month, and the local electrical rate per KWH. An example would be a fridge that draws 3.5 amps, runs a 50% duty cycle, and an electrical rate of .09/KWH. First, let's calculate the load in KW: 3.5 amps x 120 volts=420 watts = .42 KW Then calculate the run time: 720 hours x .50 = 360 hours Then calculate the total KWH: 360 hours x .42 = 151.2 KWH Last, multiply by the rate: 151.2 x .09 = $13.61 A note about the veg oil... If your temperature controller has an adjustable differential, you can set it for 5 degrees or so, and do away with the oil. The oil or water is just a messier means to accomplish the same thing. Hope this helps! Forrest Duddles - FridgeGuy in Kalamazoo fridge at Imbecile.kzoo.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 10:37:53 -0500 From: lheavner at tcmail.frco.com (Lou Heavner) Subject: re: using spoiled beer Paul in Cheyenne asks what to do with 4.5 gal of infected beer. You might try boiling some shrimp in it and see if it is any good? I'd hate to ruin the shrimp, too, though. You could boil up some brats or hot dogs, maybe a more traditional solution. How about beer batter onion rings? You ought to ask Scott Murman, the unofficial HBD beer chef for ideas. Of course they say with wine, if you wouldn't drink it as is, you shouldn't cook with it either. Good luck! Cheers! Lou Heavner - Austin, TX 100 DegF in the shade... Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:04:37 -0500 From: David Rinker <drinker at mci2000.com> Subject: Recipie percentages and specialty malts All the talk about crystal malts and exactly "what" they contribute to a brew, combined with the discussion on exactly how to best adapt any particular recipe for a given brewing system, leads me to ask the following question: How does one handle the scaling up or down of specialty malts? First of all, I like many others here adapt specific recipes to my own needs by simply adjusting the grain bill up or down by weight. I find that easier than going by extract amounts (as per Daniels), especially since most all malts fall into the 33-36 pts/lb/gal range anyway, and both methods will then lead to very similar results. (Obviously, additions like syrups, sugar or honey don't get scaled in the same manner under either of these methods). However, both approaches to grain-scaling still seem to present a problem with respect to those specialty malts whose primary contributions to a mash are not ones principally of extract, but rather of color and flavor. Now, for most recipes shuffling within the 75%-85% m.e. range is really not a problem since the total amount of specialty grains varies little, but when I wanted to start experimenting with a technique like "no sparge" mashing (where efficiency can drop to around 50%) I ran into a problem. Specifically, the specialty malts (roasted and caramelized malts) appear to contribute an amount of flavor and color *disproportionate* to their extract contribution--i.e. you can't scale them in a linear fashion. For example the first no sparge brew I attempted was scaled up from a mild recipe which used 4oz of Chocolate malt at "normal" (73%) efficiency. However when I converted it to a no sparge recipe at 60% (should have been lower) the amount of chocolate malt was pushing half-a-pound. I didn't think twice about this at the time I was brewing, but the beer came out with what I thought to be too much chocolate character and was much too dark. Since this problem would also seem to become a factor when increasing the volume of a given recipe, others out there must have developed some tricks to deal with it. To help shed some light, I checked some of the AHA Style books to see by what factors each author multiplied his 5gal batches to get them up to 1 bbl batches. Darryl Richman seems to observe a near linear relationship with all malts, multiplying them by a factor of 6.2. Terry Foster OTOH routinely multiplies his pale malts by 5.4 and his specialty malts by 6.4 in both of his books. Noonan multiplies his pale malt quantities by 6.2 and his specialty malt quantities by 6.4. Miller generally says in the 6-6.4 range for all malts and Rajotte uses 5.5 for his base malts and 6.4 for his specialty malts. Rather than clarifying things for me, this information makes it seem like I should add a disproportionately *greater* amount of specialty malts as either my efficiency drops or as my volume increases... Can anyone help me out here? How much does extract efficiency reflect "flavor/color-extraction" efficiency? What rules of thumb do you use when doubling a recipe? Thanks David Rinker Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 10:59:16 -0700 From: Badger Roullett <branderr at microsoft.com> Subject: Coffee and Oatmeal in a stout... i am working on formulating a recipie for a Coffee and Oatmeal stout.. Coffee for taste, and Oatmeal for body, and smoothness.. any suggestions for -> Hops? bittering and aroma? -> Grains? (i am thinking Choc malt, and Black Patent 1/2 lb ea per 5 gallon) and maybe some Dark Crystal.. ->How, When, and What Type of coffee to add.. Beans, Ground, espresso grind, espresso? when boil, fermentor, etc.. ->Oatmeal, how do i work with this? never done it. -> Other Adjucts that have worked for people.. (brown sugar? Spices? - maybe some cinnamon to go with the breakfast theme? ;) would be be really appreciated. I have been brewing for 3 years, been on and off the HBD, and use Extract with Speciality grains mostly. I work in 10 gallon batches, keg to Cornies with Force carbonation. ********************************************* Brander Roullett aka Badger Brewing Page: http://www.nwlink.com/~badger/badgbeer.html Badgers Brewing Bookstore: http://www.nwlink.com/~badger/brewbook.html In the SCA: Lord Frederic Badger of Amberhaven, Innkeeper of the Cat and Cup Inn Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 11:01:52 -0700 From: Badger Roullett <branderr at microsoft.com> Subject: History of the Stout.. Does anyone know if the Stout, as an entity would have appeared before the End of the 17th century? ie: when did a stout start being called a stout, and when did roasting malt for darker colors and tastes appear in history? Sort of an odd question to some of you mainstream Homebrewers, but i am Medievial recreationist, and a homebrewer.. doing some research into the history of the stout. any good book suggestions? ********************************************* Brander Roullett aka Badger Brewing Page: http://www.nwlink.com/~badger/badgbeer.html Badgers Brewing Bookstore: http://www.nwlink.com/~badger/brewbook.html In the SCA: Lord Frederic Badger of Amberhaven, Innkeeper of the Cat and Cup Inn Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 14:27:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Samuel Mize <smize at mail.imagin.net> Subject: Red Ale; lactic beer; namelessness John "The Brews Traveler" Adams writes, in a beer review: > A very nice and pleasant Red (we all know there is no such style) Ale. Not to bang on John, this is a general comment. I've never understood the strong objection some people have to the term "Red Ale." I brewed one last Halloween. I mean, it was red, and it was an ale. I certainly wouldn't make it a competition category, since it's just a color variation on Pale Ale. The flavor is unaffected. But isn't color something we're supposed to observe and appreciate? Wouldn't you notice a pale amber stout? If we want to insist that breweries use style designations correctly -- and I do -- then we must let them use other terms for brand differentation and marketing, especially for products that are somewhat out of style. "Red Ale" seems like "Milk Stout" or "Fizzy Bland Lager" (OK, they don't use that last one, but some of them should). - - - - - - - - - - > From: AllDey at aol.com > Subject: More fridge, sanitation > As I sit here, the fridge is running about 2-3 minutes > off and 2-3 minutes on. > ...I also fairly recently switched to veg. oil in the cup > in which the ext. temp controller probe resides. Seems like a red herring, but > Sam Mize in personal communication suggests this may have an influence. I was trying -- poorly, I guess -- to ask if your problem was extra-long cycle times. At 2-3 minutes I'd say my guess was totally off base. I'd stick with oil or water -- don't put herring into the glass. And don't call it "red" herring, it's just herring with a little red color in it. > p.s. what to do with 4.5 gal. of lactic infected cal. common? I'm not about to > make 100 g of Guiness Stout or traditional porter to mix. Ain't never dumped, > won't start now. Suggestions? You could pasteurize it (to stabilize the souring) and cook with it. You might develop some recipes that are so good you'll lactic-infect another batch. (Well, it COULD happen!) It might also be interesting to make malt vinegar with some of it. How-to has been posted, I don't recall if it was HBD or rec.crafts.brewing. (Even if it's really bad, at least you won't be dumping BEER -- just vinegar. :-) - - - - - - - - - - Several people assured Pat that Paul Gatza, shockingly, does have a name. >Who the hell is Paul Gatza? How is it that the >AHA always manages to find these faceless, nameless people (Kind of an oxymoronic question, wasn't it, Pat? :-) I'd suggest generally that folks who dislike the AHA aim their negative comments carefully at the AHA, and not at an individual who hasn't had time to prove himself to be a villain, a hero or a random guy like us. Best, Sam Mize - -- Samuel Mize -- smize at imagin.net (home email) -- Team Ada Fight Spam: see http://www.cauce.org/ \\\ Smert Spamonam Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 15:33:17 -0600 From: "Graham, Bill" <bgraham at geographix.com> Subject: More fridge, sanitation >From: AllDey at aol.com >I asked about my fridge running constantly >Forrest Duddles - FridgeGuy Responded >> Keep in mind when shopping for a used fridge that one more than >>10 years old will probably cost enough more in energy cost to pay >>monthly payments on a new fridge. FWIW, I picked up an ancient fridge about this time last year, and so far have used it to store (a keg and cases of) beer, and other "normal" food items. Just plain ol' normal refrigerator use. I have checked my past electricity bills, and, on average, I'm paying a whopping $1.50 extra per month. I don't know how low new payments would be on a new fridge, but I can't imagine them being much less than $1.50. Of course, this thing is sitting in the garage where the highest temp it sees is 75. IOW, YMMV. OTOH, it might be a good way to convince the SO to get you some new equipment ;) Bill Within smelling distance of the largest brewery in the world - YUM! Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 15:10:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Edwards <ale at cisco.com> Subject: Re: New AHA Nameless...yadda yadda I don't see what the uproar is about. If you don't like what they are doing, then don't support them! I stopped buying their rag...I mean "paying my dues to the non-profit organization" when the crap-to-info ratio got too high (history of the bottle opener?!?). In my opinion, every issue of Brewing Techniques is better than the best Zymurgy (no affiliation). Charlies books? Yeah, right. (I bought TCJOHB because it came with my first kit. I read it once--exactly once.) Now, I don't care. I don't need them. Let them atrophy. -Alan in Fremont, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 19:00:51 -0400 From: John Biggins <jbbiggin at mail.med.cornell.edu> Subject: What to do; where to go in Portland, Ore Okay -- I'm heading for Portland, Ore next week for the first time. Aside from the Oregon Brewer's Assoc, is there a good web-site to index all the breweries & brewpubs? Thanx in advance -John Biggins Cornell University Grad School of Medical Sciences Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 21:06:12 -0400 From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: How much crystal in your PA ? Charles Rich asks about %age of malts and adjuncts in brewing. This reminds me of an interesting issue. M&BS states that 'crystal and colored malts' comprise about 1% of great brittain's malt production !!! Seems like too little crystal in the grist to me. Why ? Sam Mize responds to Kyle ... >> From: Kyle Druey <druey at ibm.net> >> Subject: Yeast Starter >> We are admonished to make large starters, up to 1 gallon at times, then >> pitch this into the wort. Maybe your starter's are different, but my >> starters taste like [bleep] >I generally let a starter settle and pour off the liquid. This may cause >me to pitch at less-than-optimum glyco-whatsit levels but it seems to be a >good compromise: lots of yeast, very little yucky starter fluid. This is a general conundrum. You want fat, recently aerated yeast in your starter, but you don't want to add a lot of simple extract starter - which may be a oxidized if you aerate the starter during growth. If you wait for the yeast to settle out - then your yeast may be too 'skinny'. Centrifugation, filtration and cold shock might be useful separation techniques - but it sounds like a lot of effort. Anyone have a better starter method ? Steve Alexander Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 22:21:52 -0700 From: The Holders <zymie at sprynet.com> Subject: Re:Re: "Jethro Gump Report" Who or what is Jack Schmidling and why does someone name Jack Schmidling post it? You Get 'em Jethro! Wayne Holder AKA Zymie Long Beach CA "too hot for plaid right now thanks" Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 09:05:16 +0000 From: Dirk Server <mminsw at ozemail.com.au> Subject: a simple way to deoxygenate water George De Piro mentions 2 ways to deoxgenate water. Here's another way... Put water in soda keg. Pressurise with CO2 from your gas bottle at a good pressure and shake to dissolve. Once saturated, release all pressure. Hey presto! Once the CO2 bubbles out you have water with much less oxygen than you started with. This may need repeating to reduce oxygen to acceptable levels. Why doesn't one of the pointy heads try it out with their dissolved oxygen meter and report back with results? Dirk. PS. For you doubters - it DOES work. It relies on the dissolved oxygen from the water going into the CO2 bubbles due to a lack of oxygen in the CO2 bubble. Simple gas stripping. It is not used commercially solely due to the comparative high cost of CO2. It would also work with beer if it didn't foam everywhere! Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 05:07:35 PDT From: "Gregg Soh" <greggos at hotmail.com> Subject: How to dilute homebrew.... Many thanks to Calvin Perilloux, Sam Mize, Greg Lorton, Gary, George Litchfield, Robert Buchanan, Bayard Wenzel and Al Korzonas for the advice regarding diluting my "Eis Ale". For those who may have at one time experienced this problem or who may have yet to experience it, the advice was (it was unanimous) to boil some water and let it cool with as little headspace as possible, someone suggested using a CF chiller also. No one has had any problems with this arrangement except Robert who had detected a cardboard taste after 3 weeks at 45F. Well, as for me, so far so good, it has worked acceptably for now. Thanks. Gregg Soh ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 08:43:54 -0400 From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com> Subject: Starters Allen Senear (welcome!) commented that a starter culture he tasted wasn't too wretched. In order to insure that future starters do gag you, oxygentate the starter as frequently as practical after "pitching" the yeast. This keeps the yeast in growth phase, maximizes their multiplications and insures that they have strong cell membranes so that they will be able to reproduce better daughters in the wort when they, in turn, are pitched. I believe it to be the metabolites of yeast growth phase, as opposed to fermentation phase, that makes a well made starter taste so bad thus, IMO, if it don't taste bad, it ain't right. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Michael Rose commented on a multiplicity of posts re CO2 leaving beer. I've missed those but the "answer" may be the very simple fact that gas leaves a solution until the partial pressure of the gas in the solution is the same as that of the gas (air) over it. The partial pressure of CO2 in the air is .03 - .05% (and yet this has a profound effect upon ground water chemistry, forces the pH of distilled water to the mid 5's etc.) which means that CO2 will escape soda, or beer, or well water or whatever until the partial pressure in the liquid is the same. In water this amounts to a CO2 content of 0.7 mg/L - not much at all. Thus nearly all the gas forced into beer will eventually escape though it may take some time. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 08:54:08 -0400 From: "Marc Battreall" <batman at terranova.net> Subject: RE: Hop Combinations Peter wants to know about hop combinations with his home grown hops. He writes: My hop garden this year is producing the following: Nugget, Bullion, Liberty, Fuggles and Saaz. Anyone and everyone, please share with me any combinations of these five strains that might work well together. If you know of some combination, please share the hop schedule with me. Peter, In my opinion (please remember this is MY opinion) none of the hops that you have go together well, except maybe the Fuggles and Bullion in an Irish Stout. Please keep in mind that I brew mostly according to beer style guidelines, but more so closer to traditional regional style guidelines. Examples being Saaz hops in a Czech Pilsner, East Kent Goldings in a English Ale, etc. That doesn't mean that you have to, but that's the way that I do it because I try to emulate beers as close as I can and I am a hopeless traditionalist. I personally feel that your hops are all from a wide variety of what would be considered traditional for any one particular style of beer. Don't take this wrong. The good news is that because of your available variety, you have hops for quite a wide array of styles. Here are some ideas for you: Use the Nugget in American Pale Ales or Brown Ales for bittering or flavor. Use the Bullion in an Irish Stout for bittering and the Fuggles for flavoring and finishing. They are reportedly what Guinness uses (the Bullion anyway, can't confirm the Fuggles). Use the Liberty in just about any Lager, American, German etc. The were bred as a fine substitute for Hallertau Mittlefruh and are great for flavoring. Use the Fuggles in just about English style for bittering, flavor or aroma (dry hopping). Use the Saaz in any Pilsner whether its American, Czech, or German. Or heck, use ANY of them in ANY BEER for ANYTHING! The bottom line is that you are the Brewer and you can be as creative as you want. The are no hard fast rules as far as hop usage is concerned. I have personally bittered, flavored, and dry hopped with just about any hop you can name and I was pleased with the results most of the time. And if I wasn't, I made note of it and didn't do it anymore. I go on binges like overhopping Pale Ales, dry hopping with traditional bittering hops, not dry hopping, making single hop variety beers (this was a fun one) and all kinds of experiments. My only other advice to you is always use the freshest hops, which you can obviously do, and take good notes so you can repeat your results should they be favorable. Good Luck and Happy Hopping! Marc ======================== Captain Marc D.Battreall Islamorada, Florida batman at terranova.net captainbrew at hotmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 09:27:04 -0500 From: John Murphy <jbm at ll.mit.edu> Subject: Hop "burr" stage I've noticed that the flowers on my Chinook hop plant have been in the "burr" stage (when they start and have that spiny appearance) for over a month now. This is the same plant that gave a decent yield last year and has reached over twenty feet already. I don't recall the flowers taking this long to develop. My Centennial flowers are growing like crazy, with lots of ripe flowers and still growing new flowers which have leapfrogged the Chinooks in terms of development. Even the Goldings that I planted this year are starting flowers which are getting bigger than the Chinooks. They're all planted next to each other and get the same amount of water. The Chinook might get a little more shade at the end of the day where it's trained horizontally at the end but I can't imagine this would make a difference. Any other hop growers seen flowers take this long to develop? Cheers John Murphy jbm at ll.mit.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 09:25:17 -0400 From: dbgrowler at juno.com Subject: ponkins Hey Scott, I'm still glowing green over here after reading about your overseas beerhunting expedition. I wrote the post about the pumpkin extract, and it was indeed about pumpkins, not "pie filling". I use a cooker-type adjunct mash: skinned, cubed, pumpkin boiled till nearly liquid, added to the main mash to boost it to saccharification temp. I go easy on the spices, because it's easy to overwhelm the pumpkin character. I guess I downplayed the flavor contributions a bit too much, thinking of (and factoring in) the trouble one must go to to get it. Actually, it's quite nice, and worth doing once a year (short memory helps, too.) Over the six batches I've made, I'd say 10 pt./lb./gal. is absolutely the most optimistic yield prediction. I've used the same grist and mash format, with anywhere from 2#-5# cubed pumpkin, and the effect differing amounts of pumpkin have on the OG ain't enough for a 'type B' brewer like myself to worry about. Mike Bardallis residing in Allen Park, MI, excepting 21-26 July, when I'll be in PORTLAND! WooHoo! _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 08:30:14 -0500 (CDT) From: Samuel Mize <smize at mail.imagin.net> Subject: Gump; true measure; small servings Jack Schmidling asks: > Who or what is Jethro Gump and why does someone name Rob Moline > post it? Jethro Gump was a famous Illinois highwayman who used to rob Moline. No? - - - - - - - - - - Scott Murman comments: > One thing I really hope will catch on here in the States, is every > glass over there has a line to mark the volume you are buying, ... > Here in America, people are paying > a premium for "pints" that are actually only 13 oz. (steal a pint > glass from your local pub and try it for yourself). I don't know how > we can get this practice started, but I wouldn't be adverse to even > seeing a law enacted. This might be a good project for homebrew clubs -- not stealing glasses, that is, but taking a measuring vessel into places where the menu/servers are calling them "pints" and finding out what their pour volume actually is. (Discreetly enough to not get bounced or otherwise violently handled.) You could publish your findings in your newsletter. Don't recommend against places or call them names, you don't need a lawsuit. It seems by common sense that a statement like "server called the serving size pint, measured size was 12 oz" should be safe enough, but check with an actual lawyer in your area first. My point, as near as I can tell, is that a CAMRA-type grass-roots campaign is the most likely to succeed, and it seems like a good idea to me. This could be sold to the better places as a PR benefit: give such places a "true measure" seal they can display and a free mention in your newsletter, as long as they (1) state the measure they sell and (2) sell that measure. If anyone's interested in doing this, email me and let's see if we can get something started. > I would also like to see the smaller 25dl > (about 8 oz.) size catch on here. It's nice to have a small beer with > lunch, or in the afternoon, or whenever really, without getting too > hammered. I doubt it would be popular with the macho, American > power-drinking crowd though. I agree, it would be nice. However, it would have a hard time in neo-prohibitionist America. We seem to be largely polarized into people who won't touch Demon Rum, and people who drink to get drunk. Responsible, social drinking is much less common, so people who drink at all usually want a big serving. Best, Sam Mize - -- Samuel Mize -- smize at imagin.net (home email) -- Team Ada Fight Spam: see http://www.cauce.org/ \\\ Smert Spamonam Return to table of contents
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