HOMEBREW Digest #2817 Sat 05 September 1998

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Malt Minerals (Fred Scheer-Malt Montana)
  Grant's Scotch Ale help (Rick Wood)
  Name that grapefruit! ("Brian Dixon")
  Re:Oatmeal stout ("Brian Dixon")
  Apologies ("Erik Vanthilt")
  Centrifuges (Jeremy Bergsman)
  starters (Jeremy Bergsman)
  8lit centrifudge ("David Hill")
  centrifuges and big starters (Christopher W Kafer)
  more yeast & esters/other ("Steve Alexander")
  Moisture in grains ("Gregg A. Howard")
  Should yeast starters be decanted? (Randy Shreve)
  Broken chest freezer (warning: techno talk) (fridge)
  Chattanooga brews? (mwmccaw)
  Re: Chest freezer broken ("Welsch, John")
  Campden tablets (Nathan Kanous)
  post of the year? (David Kerr)
  Old brewing methods/American megas and high-gravity brewing (George_De_Piro)
  Pore size for filters or Poly-Clar ("H. Dowda")
  Duesseldorfer Sticke (Fred Waltman)
  Homebrewing Tip #74 (Marc.Arseneau)
  Monterey and Carmel Brewpubs (Scott Crable)
  grain container & fermenter for 10 gal batches too (Peter.Perez)
  measuring malt (Boeing)" <BayerMA at navair.navy.mil>
  Alt, Pils, Centrifuge (Mark E. Lubben)
  Hop Plants (Jeffrey Rose)
  A beer by any other name ... ("Larry Maxwell")
  Rauchbier ("Riedel, Dave")
  Ireks Malts ("Rob Jones")
  Bad taste in Pat's mouth... ("Rob Jones")

Let a good beer be the exclamation point at the end of your day as every sentence deserves proper punctuation... NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESS: hbd.org Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org (Articles are published in the order they are received.) If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org. **SUBSCRIBE AND UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS MUST BE SENT FROM THE E-MAIL **ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!! IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, the autoresponder and the SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE commands will fail! For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to brewery at hbd.org Homebrew Digest Information on the Web: http://hbd.org Requests for back issues will be ignored. Back issues are available via: Anonymous ftp from... ftp://hbd.org/pub/hbd/digests ftp://ftp.stanford.edu/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer AFS users can find it under... /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 23:23:44 -0400 From: Fred Scheer-Malt Montana <maltmt at marsweb.com> Subject: Malt Minerals (Inserted in queue by Janitor Date: Friday, September 04, 1998 2:09 PM) Subject: Malt Minerals Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 23:23:44 -0400 RESPONSE to AJ's posting Regarding to AJ's posting (which was a very good one, by the way), I would like to ad the following: The HUSK, and in particularly the outer layer, is rich in silica (SiO2). Otherwise, Minerals are particularly concentrated in the empryo and the aleurone layer. During the steeping process, some minerals are leached into the steep water. What that means is that the more intense the steeping process is, the more or less minerals will be in the finished malt. The requirements for minerals resembles that of each living cell, and the supply of potassium, iron, calcium, magnesium, manganese, copper, and zink is necessary. These metal ions are needed for the activity of enzymes. If one likes more reading on the subject, please look at page73 -81 0f Charlie Papazians THE HOMEBREWERS COMPANION. (By the way, he is not paying me for that advertisment...........) Fred Scheer, President & Maltster MALT MONTANA, Inc maltmt at marsweb.com "PORTER'S PRAISE DEMANDS MY SONG, PORTER BLACK AND PORTER STRONG" ANON. CIRCA 1800 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 14:48:01 +1000 From: Rick Wood <thewoods at netpci.com> Subject: Grant's Scotch Ale help Hello All, I have a friend who really likes Grant's Scotch Ale and we would like to make a version that has most of it's characteristics. Bert Grants web page gives much information regarding the brew, and I think have no serious problems with the grain bill, with one exception. Also, I am wondering about the hopping schedule as the web page specifies Cascades, making this a Scottish-American brew. I am trying to approach Bert's interpretation rather than the authentic style. An added complication is that I have never tasted the brew. My questions: 1. is peat smoked malt appropriate in Grants Scotch Ale? 2. does anyone have a feeling for hopping schedule, more for flavor and aroma as bitterness is specified. Is dry hopping appropriate? 3. I am planning to use Wyeast Scottish (1728) if this is appropriate? Thanks to all, Rick Wood, Brewing on Guam Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 22:24:28 -0700 From: "Brian Dixon" <mutex at proaxis.com> Subject: Name that grapefruit! Had a pint the other day that I'd say was less than acceptable (while working on my 100 pint around the world, "get a free T-shirt and your name on a plaque" effort at the local pub "Suds-n-Suds" in Corvallis, Oregon ... do your laundry AND get your beer ... 100 styles to pick from!) Anyway, this one was named after a NW fish and was from a popular brewery in Northern California. I figured it had to be good! The beer would have been quite good actually ... what you could taste of it beyond the grapefruit! The friend that was with me said he could smell it in the aroma, and definitely taste it quite clearly in the beer. I couldn't smell it, but boy could I taste it! It tasted like someone had put grapefruit extract into the beer ... yuk! I suffered through about 75% of the pint before giving up (normally, I can drink about anything). I didn't bother complaining to the bartender. Probably should've mentioned it, but after a couple of pints, I get lazier. Anyone know, chemically speaking or from a brewing/fermentation/conditioning/etc. perspective what the grapefruit flavor was? I found only one reference to a "grapefruit or citrusy flavor" in my many brewing books, and it mentioned it coming from the hops, if certain varieties were used. This went way beyond that! Pour yourself a nice 1/4 glass of grapefruit juice, then fill the glass with some Sierra Nevada Pale Ale (not the brewery with the problem), and drink it ... THAT's what I'm talking about! Any experts know what I'm talking about here? OR if you happen to be able to guess which beer and brewery I'm talking about, is it really possible they did this on purpose? Seems counterproductive to me... Thx, Brian Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 22:44:08 -0700 From: "Brian Dixon" <mutex at proaxis.com> Subject: Re:Oatmeal stout >> >>I am contemplating making an oatmeal stout in the next few weeks. >> >>As aveteran single step infusion masher I and wondering if it is >> >> a*mandatory* that I include a protein rest. >> >> In a word, no. >> [snip] >A recent BT (Oct 97, I think) article on adjuncts said that a rest was >needed to avoid stuck sparges. My only experience with oatmeal stout >was a partial mash, which was a bear to sparge (but great to drink!), >but that may have been due to incomplete conversion. > > Any comments from the veteran "oatheads" amoung us? I disagree with whatever BT article that said you needed a protein rest. Maybe if you use cold-rolled oats, but not with flaked oats or any of the Quaker oats (Quick or otherwise). I've always gotten very good conversion with oats, have used up to 25% oats (!!!) in the grain bill, and have never had a haze problem (chill or otherwise). One thing I do recommend though, is to use either rice hulls or oat hulls during the sparge. You can toss in clean (more on that below) rice hulls any time, or if using oat hulls, toss the clean (see below) oat hulls into the mash just prior to sparging. I forget the how many pounds of hulls per X pounds of grain to use, but this is a noncritical thing. Just buy a pound or two (it'll be a big bag) at the local brewshop and take it home. Use an amount that seems to look about right and it'll be close enough. Since I know there's not a heck of a lot of info on using hulls out there (only brief mentions), I'll bore y'all with what I know. Skip to the next post now if you want to avoid this! Notes on rice hulls: - At least in the Pacific NW, these are harder to find. - These are the best. Low in tannins and oils, and generally not necessary to clean. - If you choose to clean them, put them in a large-mesh grain bag and 'fluff' the bag around in a sink of cool water, squeeze dry, change out the cool water for new water, then repeat. When the water stays clean, you are done. Contrary to what some books may say, it is NOT necessary to dry the hulls before you use them in your mash. - See note on floaty hulls below. Notes on oat hulls: - At least in the Pacific NW, these are far easier to find (and cheap) - These are not the best! But work just fine anyway if you take some minor precautions. The problem is that oat hulls tend to be fairly high in oils and tannins, and tend to be fairly dirty. - Defeat the extraction of tannins and oils by limiting exposure of the hulls to your mash to the sparge. Mash like always, then mix in the cleaned oat hulls right before you sparge. Then sparge like always (see not on floaty hulls). - Thoroughly clean oat hulls by placing them in a large-mesh grain bag, and then 'fluff' them around in a sink full of cool water. Squeeze them out, change water in the sink, repeat the cleaning until the water stays pretty clean (it'll never get perfect). Contrary to what some books will say, it is NOT necessary to dry the hulls before you use them. Note that it may take between 5 and 10 rinsing/cleanings to clean the hulls. Either allow enough time for it, or do it the night before brew day, or do it far in advance and let them dry on a cookie or pizza sheet and save them. Since they don't go in the mash, I clean mine DURING the mash (during the long sacc rest). Note on floaty hulls: - Hulls float in the sparge! In the 0" to 2" of sparge water above the grain bed, the hulls will float! You will not be able to see the top of the grain, and that makes it hard to determine how much water remains on top of the grain. Use a dowel, spoon handle or whatever for a dipstick to see how much water is on top of the grain. Don't worry about disturbing the grain bed. Accidentally poking a hole or two into the top won't hurt a thing. Have fun! Brian Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 22:48:59 -0700 From: "Erik Vanthilt" <vanthilt at inetworld.net> Subject: Apologies I responded to the hop question in #2815, and at the end I put a BTW about the soda pumps I had previously asked about. Well, I apologize, I was out of town sampling California's fine beers and wines, and did not catch my e-mail. When I did, I was expecting a "re:" on soda pumps, which I did not find. I have the tendency to scan the headlines for interesting info, instead of reading the whole digest. Maybe it's just been too long since I brewed ;) Thanks, Erik Vanthilt The Virtual Brewery Http://www.inetworld.net/vanthilt/index.html Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 23:15:42 -0700 From: Jeremy Bergsman <jeremybb at leland.Stanford.EDU> Subject: Centrifuges I always marvel at the household washing machine. With a little tweaking it seems like it could beat out your average RIMS, and at only a few hundred $ for an 18 gallon system.... I would imagine that with the proper insert (rigid foam?) and the water turned off, the spin cycle of a washing machine would spin out yeast just fine. I believe you can obtain nice wide-mouthed Nalgene HDPE screw-top containers at camping stores, which is what a real science lab would use (and they're autoclavable). Also I read a nice article a few years back, in Scientific American I believe, for an eppendorf-style centrifuge made from an old blender and a PVC pipe cap. Not enough for a starter, but maybe one of the budding scientists here could use one.... - -- Jeremy Bergsman jeremybb at leland.stanford.edu http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~jeremybb Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 23:21:36 -0700 From: Jeremy Bergsman <jeremybb at leland.Stanford.EDU> Subject: starters OK, I think I actually have a starter-related question that hasn't been asked or answered. What about trub in the starter? I usually obtain my starters from wort I can't get out of the kettle cleanly. I either wait for the stuff to settle more or refilter this stuff, adjust to 1.040, add a pinch of yeast nutrient and autoclave. Even though one round of hot and cold break removal has occured, the autoclaving produces a prodigious amount of precipitate. This stuff settles fast, so unless you remove it before use you will be carrying it along with your yeast. Should it be removed or is the volume small enough that the lipids it contains and their benefit to the yeast outweigh their potential flavor problems (yum, oxidized lipids being added to my beer....)? - -- Jeremy Bergsman jeremybb at leland.stanford.edu http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~jeremybb Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 16:40:20 +1000 From: "David Hill" <davidh at melbpc.org.au> Subject: 8lit centrifudge "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Asks re large volume centrifuge. Top opening washing machine/spin-drier works well. first cut a ring of styrofoam or similar material that will sit in the bottom of the bowl get 4 identical 2lit fruit juice containers, or PET bottles. at 90 degree intervals cut a hole in the styro foam to take the base of the fruit juice bottles cut another ring of styrofoam with 4 smaller holes that will fit over the necks of the bottles. Fill the bottles with equal volume of fluid to spin down, place large ring in bottom of machine bowl, then the bottles with the other ring securing the necks so that they will not flop about. turn machine on to spin cycle and instant centrifuge. When I tried this I found it much easier to balance the machine with a couple of wet towels evenly spread around the bottom of the bowl first. Can increase efficiency by canting the bottles at an angle with the necks toward the centre. It may not be lab quality but it works. cheers David Hill. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 01:58:15 -0500 From: Christopher W Kafer <ckafer at iastate.edu> Subject: centrifuges and big starters Forget about handling the volume, do you know how much rotors alone cost?! Better be some darn valuable wort! 8-) However, one could envision relatively easy modifications to an old washing machine and a couple of 2L Coke bottles... >Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 04:31:45 -0400 >From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> >Subject: Yest/yeast/yeast&yeast <huge snip> >As for the centrifuge - most conventional lab models won't conveniently handle >anything like the 4-8L starter volumes under discussion. If any of the highly >ingenious guys who used to write about novel brewing hardware are still >around - consider this a challenge. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 03:31:42 -0400 From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: more yeast & esters/other Oh yeah - I forgot one other cause of esters in practical brewing - When a commercial starter culture is created under high O2/growth conditions, the first batch produced is mixed with other beer because reportedly of high ester production ! - -- Good recent notes on microwave ovens recently. An important note however is that altho heating of water is the primary means of heating food, that the e-field will also jostle other polar molecules - some phenols among them, and this has been used in research of phenolic reactions. Also microwaves ovens do significantly denature proteins (which is reportedly why breads become chewy in the microwave) - so attempts to heat mashes in the microwave may be ill-fated (enzyme killer). - -- George DePiro writes an excellent note about ancient brewing yeast & practice - but ... > Why do you think lagers took the > world by storm when the first pure yeast strains were isolated and > used in breweries? Van Leewenhoek, with the first microscope spotted yeast in 1680. Pasteur ID'ed yeast in breweries and learned a lot about their biology circa 1866. It was Emil Christian Hansen at Carlsberg who developed the first pure culture techniques in 1881-1883. The "Lager revolution" in the US seems to have begun ~1850, three decades before Hansen's pure culture methods were developed and even prior to Pasteur's work !! I'm no historian - but for some reason people at that time were drawn to lagers as opposed to ales or other drink. Based on the on other historical changes I've read about regarding alcoholic beverages I suspect that there was a financial reason involved. I am often dumbstruck at the impact that taxation, transportation and urbanization vs agrarian needs (for examples) have had on the course of modern alcoholic beverage development. The huge immigration of German speakers to the US to places like Milwaukee, Cincinnati and St.Louis - all were lager brewing hubs - is no small part of the story. The mirrors German migration to Mexico and other parts of the Americas and lager development there. From 1850 to 1920 no less than 25% of immigrants to the US were German speaking. The US prior to that period had many German speaking immigrants and citizens, but of course this predated widespread lager production. Also in non-coastal US there was a strong whiskey tradition among English speakers and this was subjected to increasing taxation from the 1780's thru the modern era - perhaps another part of the story. Perhaps the US Civil war permitted lagers to extend their reach as soldiers experienced beer from other parts of the US. All speculation on my part of course. What were ales like in the mid 1800s in the US ? Anyone know ? Jeff ? Perhaps the change was due to improved yeast handling techniques - tho' certainly not pure culture techniques. Perhaps flavor or transportability or clarity/color in the more available clear glass mugs that were the deciding issues. Perhaps the advances in industrialization and transportation or even refrigeration that made large scale commercial lager brewing possible. I'd love to hear about it. Steve Alexander Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 04:31:44 -0400 From: "Gregg A. Howard" <ghow at compuserve.com> Subject: Moisture in grains In #2815 Chris Frey wrote: <<Also, what are people doing who store a lot of different grains?>> We don't have much humidity in Denver so I can't speak to the moisture content problem, but 3 years ago 200+ lbs of malt and rice stored in my basement in their shipping bags became completely infested with Psocoptera, teeny-tiny little guys that were happily galloping in and out of the bags through the stitching holes. I found a donut shop that bought all their icing ready-made (most made it in-house) and was able to collect enough 3.5 and 4.25 gal. buckets (no 5 gal; icing is much denser than water) with lids in a few weeks to store all my grain. 50 lb of 2-row is just over ten gallons. I removed the labels with "Goof-Off" adhesive solvent and soaked the buckets in a 1 cup/5 gal solution of dish-washer powder in a clean trash can for a couple of days and they cleaned up nicely with no residual chocolate smell. I removed the bails (they're thinly plated and corrode easily) before soaking. I removed the gaskets from the lids and ran both through the dishwasher. I sacrificed one ugly bucket with a 2" hole saw and got 40 or so plastic disks that I cut from edge to center to make reusable tags that snap on the bails so I know which bucket is what. Collecting and cleaning the buckets was a hassle, but they make for very tidy and convenient storage; 100+ lb in each stack and unused buckets nest in little space. Kinda like jumbo TupperWare. I'm using malt that I bought right more than a year ago and it still smells wonderfully clean and sweet when I open a bucket. And, no, I never ran a protein rest on the infested grain. But then again, I've never been able to duplicate the magnificently rocky head on that last batch of CAP I brewed from it... Hmm... Gregg A. Howard - Denver - Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 07:09:49 -0400 From: Randy Shreve <rashreve at interpath.com> Subject: Should yeast starters be decanted? Somebody else asked this question a couple days ago, and if a response was sent publicly and I missed it, I apologize for the wasted bandwidth. What is the general consensus of the yeast gurus? Does decanting a starter make a significant difference in a homebrew batch....and what about all that good yeast still in suspension? Thanks! Randy in North Carolina Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 08:34:02 -0400 From: fridge at Imbecile.kzoo.edu Subject: Broken chest freezer (warning: techno talk) Greetings folks, In HBD# 2816, Ken Sullivan asked for help with troubleshooting his chest freezer that won't start after being left outside for awhile. Please understand that the following procedure assumes familiarity with electrical circuits could cause personal injury or property damage if electrical safety precautions aren't properly followed. Please get help from a qualified service technician if you don't understand the procedures I outline below, or are uncomfortable working on line- voltage circuitry. I would suggest removing the Airstat from the freezer first, and try setting the original temperature controller to a lower setting. If this doesn't work, unplug the freezer, find the controller, disconnect one of the controller connections and verify that the contacts close. I'll assume you have access to a multimeter, since you mention having a background in electronics. Simply set the meter to a low resistance range and check for continuity between the controller terminals. If the controller tests ok, reconnect it and turn your attention to the compressor. There will be a small relay and thermal element mounted either inside the compressor terminal cover, or in a nearby box. The relay may be one of several types, but is usually pushed onto two of the compressor terminals (S) and (R). Remove thie relay and shake it. You should hear the contacts rattle. If not, the relay is probably bad. If it rattles, check for continuity across the common (2) and normally closed (R) terminals with the relay held upright, and across the common (2) and normally open (S) terminals with the relay inverted. The thermal element is usually in the form of a round plastic device with two terminals. Inside is a small bimetal disk that deforms to open the circuit when hot. Check for continuity across the two terminals. If there is a capacitor in the compressor circuit, it may be used for either starting or running the compressor. These capacitors can retain dangerous voltages for long periods after the freezer is unplugged. Always short the terminals together with a screwdriver, or other metal tool with an insulated handle before handling the capacitor. Remove one lead from the capacitor, and one end of the bleeder resistor (if there is one). Set your multimeter on a low resistance range and read the resistance across the terminals. The meter should read neither a short, nor open circuit, and the resistance value should change as the capacitor begins to charge from the meter's battery. If the capacitor doesn't behave in the above manner, take it to a motor repair shop and have them test it. If all the above checks ok then the last thing to check is the compressor. The compressor terminals are usually labeled C (common), R (run), and S (start). With a multimeter set to a low resistance range, check resistance between the C and S terminals, C and R terminals, R and S terminals and from each terminal to the compressor case. You should read infinite resistance from any terminal to the compressor case. The resistance value between the C and S terminals should be lower than the value between the C and R terminals. The value between the R and S terminals should be higher still. This procedure should pinpoint most electrical problems in a common refrigeration system. However, there are many different combinations of components used in the various makes and models, and I chose a very common configuration in the above procedure. Please email me if your system differs significantly from this example . Hope this helps! Forrest Duddles - FridgeGuy in Kalamazoo fridge at Imbecile.kzoo.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 08:03:26 -0500 (CDT) From: mwmccaw at ix.netcom.com Subject: Chattanooga brews? I'll be spending a week in Chattanooga, TN soon. Does anyone know of any good/great brewpubs within striking distance? TIA, Mike Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 98 01:31:00 PDT From: "Welsch, John" <A069067 at MDCPO102.HB.MDC.COM> Subject: Re: Chest freezer broken Ken Sullivan writes: >I suspect the starter cap. I bypassed the fridge >thermistor, no joy. >Anybody out there have a few troubleshooting tips? >I have a background in electronics but no experience >with fridges. I had an old fridge that had been sitting and just wouldn't run. The fix was simple, I got a "Hot Shot" from the local Johnstone Supply. This thing replaces the start capacitor and overload on any compressor, just plugs to the existing flag terminals and away you go. Should be able to find one at any refrigeration parts supply house. Cost about $15. John Welsch Strand Brewers Redondo Beach, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 09:43:15 -0500 From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu> Subject: Campden tablets AJ, In your post about reducing chloramines with the use of Campden tablets, you said: >the water. Some of this will be oxidized to sulfate by the >chlorine/chloramine and that which is not oxidized by chlorine or >otherwise will be driven off in the boil. If all is oxidized to sulfate Driven off in the boil? Pre brewing boil, or after you've mashed? I would welcome the use of this, if I don't have to boil my water first. It's just extra time and resources to pre-boil my water. What is the effect of having sulfer dioxide in my mash? Any? Just a thought. nathan Nathan L. Kanous II, Pharm.D., BCPS Clinical Assistant Professor School of Pharmacy University of Wisconsin - Madison Office Phone (608) 263-1779 Pager (608) 265-7000 #2246 (digital) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:48:50 -0400 From: David Kerr <dkerr at semc.org> Subject: post of the year? My vote is for AJ's Chloramine Neutralization post of 9/4. I'm brewing Monday (thanks to AlK for posting a *real* Altbier grain bill - no more Crystal-laced Alt for this beer geek!) after an early AM round of golf unencumbered by the charcoal filtration process. But what's the best way for me to determine when fermentaion has completed? ;) Dave Kerr Needham, MA "Be good and you will be lonely" - Mark Twain Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 11:14:50 -0700 From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com Subject: Old brewing methods/American megas and high-gravity brewing Hi all, Paul writes, with regards to my comments about ancient brewing techniques: "While the science of what George is saying may be true, I would like to point out that the reality of modern home brewing is quite different. I have done quite a few decoction mashes and have added enormous amounts of boiled grains back to the main mash...I have never experienced *phenolic, sour, etc.* flavors in any of my decocted brews." Back to me: Perhaps I wasn't abundantly clear: the phenolic and sour notes are from the use of impure yeast cultures, not the mashing technique. The mashing technique is likely to provide a wort that is rich in dextrins and starches that brewer's yeast cannot ferment. These will support the growth of wild microbes, but it is these wild bugs that cause the phenolic, sour, etc. flavors, not the mashing technique itself. Paul then continues: "Just try to keep the additions of boiling water to a minimum and be sure to let your mash rest until any released starch is converted (which may take a while longer because some of the enzymes may have been denatured)." Back to me: The best way to prevent localized heating when adding very hot liquids to the main mash is to add the liquid slowly and stir constantly. If you are using boiling water infusions to raise the mash to a specific temperature you don't really have a choice about how much to add. A specific volume of boiling water must be added to effect the temperature increase, so you can't "keep it to a minimum." Paul then writes: "Unless you are adding massive amounts of boiling water (like doughing in 10 pounds of grain with 3 gallons of boiling water) and then letting the hot mash cool to your selected conversion temperature, there is nothing to worry about. " Back to me: That *is* the procedure Badger outlined! You add boiling water to the grain in specific proportions that land the mash near saccharification at the end of mash in. Localized heating is likely to be quite high in the procedure Badger outlined: it is very difficult to stir dry grain as water is added to it (Jim Busch wrote about trying this once). The dry grain does not have the heat capacity of the watery main mash that a modern decoction brewer is dealing with. Adding boiling water to the dry malt will cause a rapid temperature increase in the grain and denature enzymes. If one is trying to duplicate ancient beer, I would encourage them to follow a procedure like the one Badger outlined. It is important that you know what kind of results you can expect, which was the point of my post. I hope that cleared up any confusion my original post may have caused. ------------------------------------ Steve Alexander has written a couple of very informative posts as of late. I do have one minor criticism, though: In a recent post he wrote, in response to Jim L. wrt the Gee and Ramirez paper: "16P (1.065SG) is light lager ? I haven't tried light lager in a while - maybe I'm missing something ! Perhaps you are referring to high gravity brewing - which I do not believe is widely practiced in this country." Actually, Miller, Coors and A-B all practice high-gravity brewing. It makes it even cheaper (um, I mean more profitable) for them to make their beer. I've always wondered what their beers taste like before dilution. Could be interesting. Couldn't be less interesting... Have fun! George De Piro (Nyack, NY) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 12:18:47 -0400 From: "H. Dowda" <hdowda at scsn.net> Subject: Pore size for filters or Poly-Clar Would some one with actual experience comment of a pose size for yeast removal from finished beer. Need to clarify some quickly. Comments on the correct (successful) use of Poly-Clar would be appreciated. No, I do not usually filter or even fine any of my beers...special case Thanks a tun... Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:29:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Fred Waltman <waltman at netcom.com> Subject: Duesseldorfer Sticke All this talk of altbiers has whetted my thirst. I called zum Uerige and their sticke is supposed to be released Tues, Oct 20th (of course, with my bad German that may be the day they are painting the bathroom or somesuch). Usually the sticke is gone that day. So if anybody else is of a mind to do some onsite research, drop me a line and we'll see if we can link up (there are actually four of us from our brewclub going). Fred Waltman Marina del Rey, CA (LA Area) fred at brewsupply.com *or* waltman at netcom.com http://www.brewsupply.com "You can make better beer than you can buy." Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 10:38:58 -0400 From: Marc.Arseneau at fluordaniel.com Subject: Homebrewing Tip #74 Step #1: Light the Match Step #2: THEN turn the gas on. DO NOT perform these simple steps in reverse order. (the hair will grow back, right?) Marc "Learning the hard way" Arseneau Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 12:49:28 -0400 From: Scott Crable <crablesc at email.uc.edu> Subject: Monterey and Carmel Brewpubs Ladies and Gentlemen, I'm planning a trip to the Bay area next week. While I have found numerous listing from Pubcrawler.com for San Francisco, there isn't much listed for the Carmel and Monterey area which I will also be visiting. Any suggestions? If you have a favorite in S.F. that I must visit (besides Anchor, I'm there dude.), please let me know. Thanks. Scott Crable Cincinnati Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 13:45:43 -0400 From: Peter.Perez at smed.com Subject: grain container & fermenter for 10 gal batches too My local homebrew show uses these large, 14 gal, buckets to keep their 50 LB grain bags in with scoops to serve. These large buckets have sturdy metal handles attached to them. The lid is fitted with a large rubber O-Ring, sits on top of the bucket, then you use this round metal bracket to put around the outside edge of the lid and it clamps shut and locks in place. These seal extremely tight. I use them to keep grains in and they don't pick up an ounce of moisture (in my basement). These can also be used as fementers. At 14 gallons, that's plenty of headspace for a 10 gal batch. I think I paid about $30 a piece for them. I have a digital thermometer on my beer fridge that has a probe inside the fridge and a digital readout that Velcro on the outside of the fridge. I have the probe in the fridge and hanging from the top, middle inside the fridge so it is almost in the dead center of the refrigerator compartment. I too have a thermometer laying on the bottom inside the fridge that would occasionally give me a lower reading than the digital. I suspected too that the floor might be colder or contain the cooling element? Or like heat rises, does cold air fall? Anyone who knows about fridges let me know what the deal is, please? And could recommend a location for the probe to the digital thermometer that would most accurately reflect the temp of beer in carboys inside the fridge? Thanks, Pete Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 14:00:13 -0400 From: "Bayer, Mark A (Boeing)" <BayerMA at navair.navy.mil> Subject: measuring malt collective homebrew conscience: aj delange wrote: >stored malt picks up moisture at an amazing rate.<snip> a change of 2.6% in 4 days! does anyone know how much the weight of malt can vary (typically) for a given volume? i assume it's possible to have 0% moisture but this probably doesn't happen in the real world. if the range of typical values for moisture were known, this could tell approximately how much uncertainty is involved in predicting the sg of a beer when measuring the malt on a gravity scale. i measure my malt with a plastic beer mug (helen, ga oktoberfest, '94), at least for the base malts in recipes, so unless the volume also varies with moisture pickup, this method is independent of moisture content. brew hard, mark bayer Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 15:27:11 -0400 From: mel at genrad.com (Mark E. Lubben) Subject: Alt, Pils, Centrifuge In a recent #2815 HBD post AlK said lots about Alt beer recipes without cursing. I will start by saying I don't mean to start a war, and I have also not had an Alt beer from Duesseldorf. I wish to learn! I agree with Al's comment about munich malt versus pale+crystal malt based on the (non-Alt) German imports like Spaten that I have had in the US and during business trips to Switzerland. 50% pils + 50% munich malt extract from St Pat's might be a better extract base. My question is about Al's suggestion to use > Wyeast #1338 European Ale (NOT the over-attenuative and poorly-flocculating > Wyeast #1007 German Ale the author suggests) I was rereading the Alt section of Ray Daniels' beer design book. There is data from a long series analyzing 500 beers in the big German brewing journal. The typical apparent attenuation for the commercial Alts (including Zum Uerige) was about 80%. Looking at the Wyeast web page, 1338 comes in at 67-71%AA which is the same as the 1968 London ESB listing! Wyeast 1007 German Ale is listed at 73-77%AA which sounds closer to the commercial attenuation. Ray recommended avoiding the low attenuation "European" yeast like Horst in Zymurgy. Hmmmm? Would Wyeast 2565 Kolsch be a good Alt choice? This yeast description came closest to the various style descriptions I have seen for Alt. I gather the "ancestry" is somewhat reasonable. Unfortunately the flocculation is listed as low too, but a chill to 32F after lagering should knock most of it down, right? --- Has anyone had good luck with a couple ounces Aromatic and 6 ounces Munich to emulate part of the taste of decoctions for a Bohemian Pilsner? I can do decoctions, but I am trying to cut down my spousal beer bullet consumption rate. --- It is odd that someone mentioned a homebrew centrifuge for yeast starters. Scientific American put their blender based centrifuge article on the web but it was tinier than a doctor's office model. The recent starter discussion had just caused me to contemplate using a stout cord and 2 liter plastic bottle like a bolo in the back yard. The neighbors already know I'm crazy... Prost, Mark Return to table of contents
Date: 04 Sep 98 16:48:06 -0400 From: Jeffrey Rose <jeffrey_rose at eri.eisai.com> Subject: Hop Plants I'm growing hops for the first time. The Fuggles/Willamette rhizomes I planted last year came up early in the spring and have been growing well all summer. I have them trellissed on a 5 foot high lattice frame. I can only see about 3-4 cones on this massive tangle of vines. Did I do something wrong or should this be expected in the second year of growth? Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks! Jeff Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 15:08:07 -0700 From: "Larry Maxwell" <Larry at bmhm.com> Subject: A beer by any other name ... > Glancing through the latest issue of Southwest Brewing News I > noticed an article on brewing in the bayou. In it I suddenly see that > Bob Carbone placed 2nd in the first round of the AHA Nationals with a > "Shreveporter." Now I find myself just a little tad miffed. I have been > brewing a Honey Porter "Shreveporter" for over 7 years which Bob has > tasted, seen my label, and knew this was what I call my porter. As an intellectual property lawyer and homebrewer, I'd just like to say ... children, children, children, can't we all get along? It's just a hobby. But for those of you for whom brewing is more than a hobby, I'd like to add that I still haven't recovered from learning of Spring Street Brewing's apparent claim to WIT as a trademark. Larry Maxwell San Diego, CA larry at bmhm.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 17:48:57 -0700 From: "Riedel, Dave" <RiedelD at PAC.DFO-MPO.GC.CA> Subject: Rauchbier I had a quick look in the archives, but didn't find a lot of detail on Rauchbier formulation. I understand that it should be generally in the Vienna style but assertively smokey from beechwood smoked malt. Can anyone suggest some grist percentages? For example, using the Weyerman Rauchmalt.. do you simply use this for the base malt? cheers, Dave Riedel Victoria, BC, Canada Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 09:22:21 -0400 From: "Rob Jones" <robjones at pathcom.com> Subject: Ireks Malts Hi All, Does anybody know where to find specifics, ie. malt analysis, on the Ireks line of malts. Although Vinotheque tells me that Ireks is a large maltster/grower, a brewing buddy and I find it strange that there is no info easily obtainable, such as on the WWW. Rob Jones, Toronto Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 09:40:55 -0400 From: "Rob Jones" <robjones at pathcom.com> Subject: Bad taste in Pat's mouth... Shame that Pat Badcock wasted that $10CDN ($2US :-( ) on Keiths Pale Ale. Next time try one of the Niagara Brewing Company's line up. Gritstone, or perhaps their stellar Maple Wheat. Rob Jones, Toronto Return to table of contents
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