HOMEBREW Digest #2824 Tue 15 September 1998

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  RE: Altbier (George Smith)
  Sparge water temp. (Keith Busby)
  Why do mash enzymes work and chemistry of head retention ("Jenny and Peter Stockham")
  Alts, new use for extract, TSP, C+H (Jeremy Bergsman)
  Crystal malt in Oktoberfest ("George De Piro")
  things to do in denver when your drunk (JPullum127)
  Rauchbier (Dan Listermann)
  High Mash Temp, Low Attenuation ("Greg Lorton")
  Secondary Barley WIne ("David R. Burley")
  Re: Flaked Rice (Jeff Renner)
  Cloudy Beer (keith  christiann)
  favorite base malts - results (Sharon/Dan Ritter)
  All grain Brewing, first timer. ( Bob Fesmire ) (DGofus)
  lagering in caves (kathy)
  Yeast flavor contributions (EFOUCH)
  Re: Moisture content of hops / Polyclar / large Wyeast packs (Spencer W Thomas)
  Morgans Specialty Malt Kickers Comparison With Specialty Grains ("Michael O. Hanson")
  Orange light doesn't skunk? (Dan Cole)
  Hefe Weizen ("Mike Piersimoni")
  Re: Iodophor (Jim Graham)
  bottle capper circa 1926 (AlannnnT)
  Guiness Trick (Badger Roullett)
  Re: Dry Hops ("Tkach, Christopher")
  Green Hop Beer ("Tomusiak, Mark")
  Priming Sugar Rates (Mark Riley)
  TSP is a crime in NY (AlannnnT)
  mead/raleigh beer ("Richard Allison")
  General/Clinitest ("Steve Alexander")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 16:07:24 -0600 From: George Smith <gpsmith at atmel.com> Subject: RE: Altbier Al Korzonas said: "You may wonder why I'm so passionate about Altbier... I'll tell you that I wondered that about Roger Deschner when he used to rant and rave about homebrewed Altbiers and the AHA guidelines being "completely wrong." But then I visited Duesseldorf and tasted the beer and realised why Roger was so passionaate about Altbier. Of the homebrewers that I know that have visited there, it's rare that it doesn't become one of their favourite styles." For those of us who have not been to Duesseldorf and brew to the AHA guideline, could someone post their method and ingredients for brewing a true Duesseldorf Altbier? I for one would appreciate it since I have brewed several Altbiers and enjoyed them. Thanks! George Smith Woodland Park, CO Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 21:25:33 -0500 From: Keith Busby <kbusby at ou.edu> Subject: Sparge water temp. During my last brew session, I noticed that the temperature of the mash during sparging dropped gradually to somewhere around 150F, this despite it having been raised to 168 for mashout (I raise temperature slowly and stir frequently to get as accurate a reading as possible) and despite sparge water being heated to about 170. I can't say I have noticed this before, but it may have happened. I use a three-tier system with probe thermometers in 10 gal. stainless pots and propane tanks under each pot. I usually turn the burner off after mashout temperature is reached, although I left the burner under the sparge tank on low this time. The extract I got from quite a heavy grain bill was rather low, so I am guessing this was due to sugars not being able to flow adequately (I believe I sparged slowly enough). So: if the temperature of the mash at the level of the probe (about 3 inches from the bottom of the pot) falls when using 170F sparge water (it passes through hole sin a copper sparging ring and falls 4-5 inches onto the grain bed) should I raise the temperature of the sparge water to, say, 180F (as recommended by Mosher in _The Homebrewer's Companion_) or leave the burner on low under the mash tun or both? The literature seems to suggest that too high a sparge temperature extracts too many tannins. And would the temperature at the bottom of the mash be too high if I left the burner on? Any advice appreciated. Private e-mail is fine. Keith Busby Keith Busby George Lynn Cross Research Professor Center for Medieval and Renaissance Studies University of Oklahoma 780 Van Vleet Oval, Room 202 Norman, OK 73019 Tel: (405) 325-5088. Fax: (405) 325-0103 Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 15:21:49 +0930 From: "Jenny and Peter Stockham" <jennyandpete1 at bettanet.net.au> Subject: Why do mash enzymes work and chemistry of head retention Hello all Can anyone explain to me the chemistry behind good head retention or give me a relevant reference or link? Most of my brews are partial mash (1kg per 22 litres) and I have noticed a considerable improvement compared to full extract brews, in that 'Coke head' is much less pronounced and the head often consists of much finer bubbles. Why? Does the evaporation process used to produce an extract remove components which are important to the head? How much better is the head on full mash beers? How much does the quality of the head depend on the extract, and what components of the extract are important? ( eg proportions of sugars, ions, protein etc.....) Another chemistry question the diastase enzymes work best at around 60 to 65 degrees or there abouts. What do you think the evolutionary pressure was for the development of enzymes to work at this temperature? These enzymes would be fairly well inactive at temperatures the barley would experience in the field (if not, could we mash at 25 degrees C?) Are these enzymes present in wild barley? I understood that most proteins denature at high temps, and only specially adapted thermophilic organisms had enzymes that could cope. Please help. I enjoy your wise dialogue in HBD and I look forward to your replies Thanks Pete Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 23:38:34 -0700 From: Jeremy Bergsman <jeremybb at leland.Stanford.EDU> Subject: Alts, new use for extract, TSP, C+H Scott Murman <smurman at best.com> asks me if I've tried the Widmer Hefeweizen/Zum Uerige yeast. I have it on a plate now and I will brew as soon as it is ready, I hope Tuesday. Following Al's advice I will use virtually all Munich with a little chocolate. I will neglect his advice and will use some FWH because I like the results so much, styles be damned! Does anyone have any experience wrt ferment temp for this yeast for an alt? This beer will be available at the NCHF if it turns out OK, for those who are interested. In addition to the problems mentioned in the recent Zymurgy alt article, what do people think of these: 1) suggestion to do a protein rest 2) suggestion to steep starchy malts (and to take them to a high temp rather than hold at 150F) 3) apparent error in estimated IBUs 4) ommision of suggestion of all munich or munich/pils extracts like that from William's Brewing? 5) suggestion to use domestic tettnanger (fuggles) 6) idea that the alt should have 40 IBUs 7) statement that proteins and dextrins increase head by increasing viscosity ****************************************************** Scott, our own beer chef, reminds me that I have an idea to share. I enjoy the occaisional malted milkshake. I used to use Carnation malted milk for the malt flavor, but have started using the dry malt extract I keep around for starters. Yum! Much better and a fair bit cheaper too. I use about 2T/8oz, but that's a guess because I don't measure it. ****************************************************** I posted this a while back when people were asking about deposits when using TSP, and I didn't get an answer: > Is it possible that the problems reported with TSP are the > precipitation of calcium phosphate? > > > "Anton Verhulst" <verhulst at zk3.dec.com> writes: > > > Since TSP has been getting a bad rap from the Environmental > Protection Agency, > [snip] > > I'm anticipating the day when TSP will be banned in the US and have > > boughtwhat I anticipate to be a lifetime supply (10 pounds). > > I have largely given up on TSP in favor of NaOH ("lye" or "caustic"). > While potentially a little more dangerous than TSP it seems to me that > the hazards are similar in nature and magnitude and it is cheaper and > easier on the envionment (as far as I know anyway). Does TSP offer > any cleaning power other than the high pH? ****************************************************** Gadget gurus should take note of the latest C+H Sales catalog. This is a supplier of used/surplus stuff of all kinds--electronics, optics, motors, pumps, etc. Their phone # is 800-325-9465. They have 2 nice pumps for someone wishing to step up a bit in power from the standard March models discussed here frequently. Both are magnetically coupled centrifugal pumps made of seemingly food grade and temp resistant materials, only problem is the voltage, one is 100V, the other 230. They say the 100 can do intermittent duty at 120. $80 and $90. No affiliation other than I am a satisfied customer (I bought my pump there). - -- Jeremy Bergsman jeremybb at leland.stanford.edu http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~jeremybb Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 98 08:17:24 PDT From: "George De Piro" <gdepiro at fcc.net> Subject: Crystal malt in Oktoberfest Hi all, Wayne asks about using crystal malt in Oktoberfestbier, with Pils malt as the base. I would advise against this, especially if Spaten's festbier is your target. It is perhaps the least caramel-like of the festbiers (and one of my favorites). Munich and Vienna malts are the key. The Fix book is out of date. Back when they wrote it there were no decent Munich malts available to us, but now there are. Weissheimer is quite a toasty Munich malt, while Weyermann is a bit less toasty (but very malty) and comes in a light and dark grade, allowing for better control over the beer's color (and a different flavor profile). Use Vienna or Munich as the base malt. You could just stop right there and have a perfectly good grain bill. If you want a bit more color you could use a dash of light crystal malt, but limit it to 3% or less of the total grain bill (my opinion). If you are not going to decoction mash you could add a dash of aromatic malt, too (that would deepen the color a bit, so omit any crystal in this case). Have fun! George de Piro (Nyack, NY) Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 09:56:57 EDT From: JPullum127 at aol.com Subject: things to do in denver when your drunk i am going to denver for the great american beer festival , any must hit places and special recommendations? i have allready heard of falling rock taproom for belgians, any others? Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 12:17:52 -0400 From: Dan Listermann <72723.1707 at compuserve.com> Subject: Rauchbier "Riedel, Dave" asked about Rauchbier: >Can anyone suggest some grist percentages? For >example, using the Weyerman Rauchmalt.. do you >simply use this for the base malt? I have followed Graham Wheeler's recipe for Schlenkerla twice. It is 98% rauchmalz and 2% chocolate made to a OG of 54 and a bitterness of 30 IBU with hallertau. This style tends to be very polerizing. Either you love it (me) or you hate it. my supply is getting low so I should think about doing another one. The mash smells of cooked ham. Dan Check out our website at listermann.com ( remember - two "n"s) Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 09:37:12 -0700 From: "Greg Lorton" <glorton at cts.com> Subject: High Mash Temp, Low Attenuation To the HBD Collective Wisdom... Last weekend I brewed a sweet stout, loosely along the lines discussed by Badger and George De Piro about three weeks ago in HBD. I included honey and brown sugar in the brew kettle (as mentioned in Badger's recipe in HBD 2803), and had a 60-minute saccharification rest that averaged 161F (~72C) (as mentioned in George's post in HBD 2802). Actually the mash temperature varied from 159 to 164F, but seemed to average around 161. The mash passed the iodine test. The OG was 1.059. After a fairly active fermentation for four days, things in the primary quieted down, and I transferred to secondary on the fifth day. The gravity reading when I transferred was 1.032, for an apparent attenuation of around 46%. Since about 1/4 of the fermentables were the honey and brown sugar added to the brew kettle, the amount of fermentables from the mash must have been quite a bit less. This is the highest saccharification temperature that I've ever used, and its the lowest apparent attenuation I've ever gotten. The beer sample tasted pretty sweet. I know it's supposed to be a sweet stout, but is this too sweet? The questions I have are: 1. Is this apparent attenuation reasonable for a 161F saccharification temp? 2. Is this as far as the fermentation is going to go? 3. Should I add some champagne yeast to try to get a bit more fermentation? The last thing I want is to bottle this beer in a few weeks and then have a series of exploding bottles in the garage a week or two after that. Any experience, anecdotes, and comments are appreciated!!! Greg Lorton Carlsbad, CA Go 'Cats! Beat Stanford! Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 13:14:42 -0400 From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Secondary Barley WIne Brewsters: Keith Busby says: "I am about to add champagne yeast to secondary to finish off a Barley Wine. Should I aerate or just swirl to get the new yeast suspended?" I definitely would not aereate. Take a small amount of the wine and after hydration of the yeast for 10-15 minutes in a cup or so of cooled, boiled water, add this mixture to a pint or so of your beer. Make sure that it will ferment what sugar is left in the beer before adding it to the remainder. If it won't start, you may need nutrients. Add this active "Starter" to the rest of your wine. Make sure the yeast you are using is a Sacc. Bayanus and not the Sacc. Cerevisiae named "Champagne" by Red Star. This latter yeast is not a Champagne yeast despite its name and may not go above 12% alcohol and is not good at restarting. Sacc. Bayanus may go as high as 18% given the right conditions. It is very useful for starting stuck fermentations. - ------------------------------------ James Spies says: "Leave bentonite for the cat litter (it's the main ingredient in "clumping" cat litter). Although effective, it has the general consistency of sewage sludge once added to your mead, and makes racking a nightmare (especially if your secondary is in a carboy)." Actually Bentonite settles very quickly and down hard if prepared as I suggested. I have never had the experience of difficulty in racking the wine off it. Bentonite's main purpose is to remove excess protein from wines low in tannin like meads. This is often the source of the cloudiness and may never clear. Although you should have used it before the fermentation, you could also try pectic enzyme - especially if you heated your honey to above 170F to sterilize it. I suggest you use pectic enzyme followed by Bentonite. - --------------------------------------------- Keep on brewin' Dave Burley Kinnelon, NJ 07405 103164.3202 at compuserve.com Dave_Burley at compuserve.com Voice e-mail OK Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 16:56:30 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: Flaked Rice skotrat at mediaone.net wrote: >I can also say that flaked rice in a proportion of more than 12% to the >rest of the grain bill starts to react like Elmers (sp?) Glue and can become >problematic. If I had me druthers I would stick to Flaked Maize for all my >Pre-Prohibition Pilseners. > >Unfortunately I like the color (or lack of color) that the Flaked Rice gives >the brew. Although from my readings Rice should give no flavor... I do >believe that some flavor is given to the beer by the rice. A couple of thoughts. First, corn should also give essentially no color. It will, of course, add more flavor than rice, perhaps not what you want. Second, while I have never used flaked rice, I think that a separate cereal mash would eliminate the glue problem, even with higher amounts of rice. Mash the rice with 1/3 as much malt (6-row for style) with enough water to keep it loose at ~153 for at least 15-20 minutes, then bring it to a boil. With flaked rice you shouldn't have to boil for too long, with raw broken rice, you'd need to boil for maybe 45 minutes. This, of course, would darken your final beer but produce some nice flavors from the melanoidins. Then add this back to the main mash which you have cleverly let sit at an appropriate temperature for an appropriate time so that the cereal mash addition brings you to the next rest temperature. Here is my most recent schedule: Time 00: Mash in cereal mash, into oven at 153F Time 15: Mash in main mash 104F Time 50: Bring cereal mash to boil Time 60: Cereal mash boiling Time 100: boiling water and bottom heat w/ recirc. to ramp main mash to 140F Time 120-125: Add cereal mash to main mash yield 147F Time 125-133: bottom heat and recirc ramp to 156F Time 155-160 Ramp to 160F (foam stand rest) Time 175 heat to 170 mashout This was a rather time-inefficient mash, but it worked great - good malty taste and corn expression from the long cereal boil. Killer foam stand. I could have shortened the cereal mash time but I was busy doing other stuff. I increased my time at 140F from 30 to 45 minutes and lowered my second saccharification rest from 158 to 156 to increase my attenuation to 75%. It had been 70%, which was a little low for style. Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 16:22:02 -0700 (PDT) From: keith christiann <kchris1 at lausd.k12.ca.us> Subject: Cloudy Beer Hello All, I have been trying to crash cool a few kegs of PA. After 3 weeks in the mid 30s, it is still cloudy. I believe it is yeast in suspension (but I have been wrong before). The yeast is the Nottingham dry, which is supposed to flock well. I racked this beer from primary (after 2 weeks) into Cornys. It sat in the frig with 15 lbs. pressure for about a week and it kept getting more and more carbonated...;-) so sampling became more frequent... It is good ya know. Now I have carbonated cloudy beer! Questions: Should I hit the beer with a dose of gelatin or wait it out? Will gelatin work on carbonated beer? Can I tell if it is a chill haze by letting a glass sit out at room temp for an hour or so? TIA for guidance Keith Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 98 18:08:32 MST From: Sharon/Dan Ritter <ritter at bitterroot.net> Subject: favorite base malts - results Here are the results of my very unscientific poll of HBD readers regsarding their preferences for ale and lager base malts: 3 - Maris Otter Pale Ale Malt (Crisp Malting) 3 - Hugh Baird (one reported problems with recent batch) 2 - Munton & Fison Pale Ale 1 - Paul's Pale Ale malt 1 - Canadian Malting Harrington 1 - Gambrinus "ESB Malt 1 - Great Western 2-row 1 - Briess Pale Ale Malt (Hugh Baird?) 3 - Durst lager 3 - DeWolf Cosyns pilsner malt 1 - Weyermann pilsener 1 - Weissheimer Pils A few people wrote saying that they had no "favorite" but reported on the malts they use regularly. I did not include them in the results. Based on this feedback, I've decided to stay with DWC pils but I will try either the Maris Otter or Gambrinus (I read other good things about this malt...and it's almost local!). Dan Ritter <ritter at bitterroot.net> Ritter's MAMMOTH Brewery - Hamilton, Montana Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 10:43:09 EDT From: DGofus at aol.com Subject: All grain Brewing, first timer. ( Bob Fesmire ) Thanks to all who replied about my desire to try all grain. I am going to make the plunge( read-investment ;^). I am concerned though on converting my extract recipes to all grain. Any help or guidance would be appreciated. Also, I will need a good source for my grain. I have been told that $ wise, it would be best to by bulk grain. English two row has been reccomended as a great base malt. I will also need a grain mill and would like some guidance on that purchase. Any help or advice would be well appreciated. Thanks to all in advance. Bob Fesmire Pottstown, PA Dgofus at aol.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 09:37:08 -0500 From: kathy <kbooth at scnc.waverly.k12.mi.us> Subject: lagering in caves The use of caves to get a stable temperature to age beer and wine is classic, but this only gets a temperature of 55F or so unless ice was used to lower the temperture. Does Jeff or anyone know if ice was used in Bohemia or Bavaria in addition to lagering in tunnels or caves? Somehow I have "ice caves" in my mind as the ancient home of lager beer. Was ice used in St Louis or Cincinnati? The importance of ice in 19th century brewing of lager beers may have been in lagering as well as in shipping via railroad cars. I visited an ice cave in Idaho once which formed ice as a natural refrigerator. Wind pressure compressed air which then escaped from a higher pressure cave area thru a constriction into a lower presssure chamber where it expanded and formed ice and chilled the chamber. Pioneers use it as a cold storage chamber and ice source. I wonder if the lagering caves of Bohemia, Bavaria and Austria had manual ice storage, or natural ice formation in the storage areas, or were just cool at 55F? just wundering??? cheers, jim booth, lansing, mi Return to table of contents
Date: 14 Sep 1998 11:50:43 -0400 From: EFOUCH at steelcase.com Subject: Yeast flavor contributions HBD- There have been some comments on yeast flavor contributions to beer in the last few HBD's, and since there is no football worth watching in Michigan (when WILL they figure out that Charlie Batch has to carry the Lions?), I thought I would share some results from a pseudo yeast experiment recently performed by me. Here's what I did- Brewed an ESB type base wort: 5# pale ale malt 2# Munich malt 11oz Crystal Malt Mashed at 154F with 10 qts. water at 170F. FWH with 1oz Northern Brewer Bittered with 1 oz Northern brewer (60min) I collected the sweet wort in my 5 gallon fermenter (dropped for aeration) for mixing, then siphoned into 5 - 1 gallon jugs (more dropping). Into each 5 gallon jug I inoculated a different Yeast strain: O.G. F.G. Apparent Attenuation 1.050 (published) Belgian Trappist (Wyeast 3787) 1.015 75-80% Belgian Strong Ale (Wyeast 1388) 1.015 73-77% Belgian Wheat (Wyeast 3942) 1.015 72-76% Widmere Hefeweizen (WLP320, per Scott Murman) 1.015 70-75% Bells Amber Ale yeast (?) 1.020* ? All the 1 gallon fermenters were put into a Son-of-a-Fermentation chiller, and fermented at 70F (to accentuate any flavor differences) for 15 days. Each was primed with 1 ounce of corn sugar and bottled on the 23rd of July. *The Bells batch was over carbonated (yes, the carbonation level was high for all of them, but the Bells was more so) which leads me to believe that it wasn't done fermenting when the others were- they should all have finished at 1.015. Flavor "analyses": I modified the Palexperiment Evaluation Sheets used in Oregon to evaluate the flavor differences of the Great Pale HBD Ale Experiment (in-other words, I whited-out all the oxidation and butt-flavor comments) for use in getting a flavor profile of each beer. The Analysts: Three "uneducated" (flavor component wise) beer buddies, the brewmaster from BOBs House of Brews, and a trained chef. One of the beer buddies excused himself after the first tasting, claiming to have soiled his palate on a couple of BOB's Broomaster Stouts. What a way to go! The brewmaster has had formal training (what's the name of that school in Wisconsin?), and my chef buddy and fellow HBD'r (how's it going, Matt?) probably has good taste buds, right? Anyway- After digesting the comments on all the sheets, I can make these general, anecdotal comments on the flavor contributions due to the different yeast strains: Belgian Trappist (Wyeast 3787) This yeast produced the spiciest beer- tart, earthy and spicy. Belgian Strong Ale (Wyeast 1388) The major discernable flavor component was citrusy, with a sweeter finish. Belgian Wheat (Wyeast 3942) This was the second spiciest beer- definite clove notes, along with some grassy flavors. Widmere Hefeweizen (WLP320) Not surprisingly, this was the maltyest (maltiest?) beer, with a sweet malty aroma and flavor. Bells Amber Ale yeast (?) The hops were most accentuated in this beer. More hops aroma and bitterness. Perhaps the rumors that this yeast is actually 1056 are true? Caveats- This was not a true taste panel- every body had had a few before we started tasting (after all, it was Mug Club night). Also, there was no "standard", like an example using Wyeast 1056. Even so, the differences in flavor were very easy to pick out. The five beers could easily have been thought to be from completely different batches. Speaking of batches, have I mentioned that Charlie Batch's the best QB Detroit has? Questions? Comments? Flames? (I'm pretty thick skinned- fire away!) Eric (You Ignorant Slut!) Fouch Bent Dick YoctoBrewery Kentwood MI "Happiness is an injured Scott Mitchell."- Me "TAKE YOUR LIFE YOU LOSER!!!!!! OOOHHH- OOOOOOHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!" - Sam Kinison Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 12:21:25 -0400 From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu> Subject: Re: Moisture content of hops / Polyclar / large Wyeast packs >>>>> "George" == George De Piro <George_De_Piro at berlex.com> writes: George> Overdosing with PVPP can George> undesirably alter beer flavor because too much phenol will George> be removed (Steve A. should like that I included that). An anecdote: Some years ago, a friend & I brewed a 10 gallon batch of Vienna together. We fermented using the same yeast and under similar conditions. He fined with PolyClar and I didn't. His beer was crystal clear (mine was "only" clear). My beer tasted maltier. Whatever.... :-) =Spencer Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 16:06:48 -0700 From: "Michael O. Hanson" <mhanson at winternet.com> Subject: Morgans Specialty Malt Kickers Comparison With Specialty Grains Hello Fellow Homebrewers: Has anybody used Morgan's specialty malt kickers? If so, how do they compare with using specialty grains? Thanks in advance, Mike Hanson Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 06:17:30 -0400 From: Dan Cole <dcole at roanoke.infi.net> Subject: Orange light doesn't skunk? I was just reading the Aug-Sept'98 edition of AleStreetNews (www.alestreetnews.com) and there is an article about Unibroue (the Canadian micro that specializes in Belgian styles). They are rolling out a new brew (a Pilsener, yes I know that it isn't a Belgian style) in a **clear** bottle. Knowing that clear bottles give no protection to the beer, they use orange lights in their brewery, because their "technical research came up with orange lights to retard the skunking process." Has anyone heard of this before? Dan Cole Roanoke, VA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 08:27:06 -0400 From: "Mike Piersimoni" <msp at dplus.net> Subject: Hefe Weizen Hey everyone Need some info on Hefe Weizen Made a batch the other day and it is now in the primary. My question is, the recipes I've seen all call for a secondary ferment. The fellow in the Home-brew shop I frequent tells me the secondary ferment is not necessary for this style. It's basically a Bavarian dry extract brew. Very low hops. And if the secondary is not needed, how long should it stay in the primary before I bottle (he also said the Germans do not keg Weizen only bottle) My guess is about 4 weeks. What's your opinion. Mike Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 19:06:59 -0500 From: Jim Graham <jim at n5ial.gnt.com> Subject: Re: Iodophor Yes, I'm a bit behind on the HBD.... :-) On Thu, Sep 03, 1998 at 12:18:44AM -0400, Paul Niebergall <pnieb at burnsmcd.com> wrote: > The information comes from the oldest (and one of the most respected) > home brew shops in the our area. In a newsletter that was recently > issued, it was stated that Iodopher doesn't work in an alkali soution > (specifically above a pH of 8.5). :-) I'm the poor sucker who ended up discovering this for them...the hard way. Oh, btw, as it turns out, one of the things that they found out when I mentioned this problem to them was that, with that type of iodophor, if the pH isn't in the right range, not only is it not a sanitizer, it actually ends up being a *BREEDING GROUND* for bacteria. Here's what happened...and what I've learned. The water here on Okaloosa Island (Ft. Walton, in NW Florida) is normally at or just above 8.5. Those are the official stats, btw, provided by the local water/sewer department. I'd been getting my Iodophor from a local brewmaster, and had never had any problems---just lots of good beer. I bought my own from the above homebrew shop, and as soon as I switched to it, started having lots of problems with infected batches. I noticed something about (homebrew) Iodophor and pH in the St. Pat's catalog, and started to understand what was going on.... What was the difference? Phosphoric acid. The local brewmasters (all of them are homebrewers and active members of our homebrew club, btw) had never heard of Iodophor that was anything other than iodine and phosphoric acid. As it turns out, the Iodophor sold in a lot of (all?) homebrew shops is just iodine. The Iodophor with phosphoric acid doesn't care what your water's pH is---it just loves to kill the little nasties that want to ruin your beer. The other stuff is finicky about pH, and in our area, is quite useless w/o adding some kind of acid. End result: I recently bought a gallon of Iodophor from the same brewmaster I was getting it from (for free...but that wasn't going to go on forever) before. And as one might expect, once I switched back to it, and after I did a complete shakedown on the brewery (all new yeast, clean all kegs and carboys with caustic, followed by a good nuking with boiling water, etc.), nothing but good beer again.... Later, --jim - -- 73 DE N5IAL (/4) MiSTie #49997 < Running Linux 2.0.21 > jim at n5ial.gnt.net || j.graham at ieee.org ICBM / Hurricane: 30.39735N 86.60439W === Do not look into waveguide with remaining eye === Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 18:19:02 EDT From: AlannnnT at aol.com Subject: bottle capper circa 1926 I recently came across a sturdy all metal bench capper. It is still functional. Some of the old ones have wooden bases- this one all steel. I sandblasted it clean and clear laquered it to keep it from rusting. The following words are cast into the sides. Maybe someone out there has a similar one? MFG. By F.P.Rexhouse. MFG. Co Poughkeepsie. N.Y. "Junior Bottle Capper" 1926 Patent APPLIED FOR. (the quotation marks are in the casting) One of the customers in my hardware store gave it to me, because he knows I brew beer. Best Brewing, Alan Talman E Northport NY Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 11:00:01 -0700 From: Badger Roullett <branderr at microsoft.com> Subject: Guiness Trick > From: Rich Byrnes <rbyrnes2 at ford.com> > Subject: Nitrogen Dispensing... > preessure and get a BEAUTIFUL creamy head and the trademark "dancing > bubbles of Guiness" I use a Corney keg with a Bar tap placed directly on the keg *(Phils Phacet Adaptor, Phil, learn to spell.. :)* and i dispense at 10 PSI, and get that Cool Guiness Trick no problem. love to watch it, and so does my girlfreind. we have a glass, watch it settle out, and then drink.. what more could you ask for!! No nitrogen, no Stout faucet, nothing. go figure. ********************************************* Brander Roullett aka Badger Brewing Page: http://www.nwlink.com/~badger/badgbeer.html Badgers Brewing Bookstore: http://www.nwlink.com/~badger/brewbook.html In the SCA: Lord Frederic Badger of Amberhaven, Innkeeper of the Cat and Cup Inn Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 14:17:58 -0400 From: "Tkach, Christopher" <tkach at cabletron.com> Subject: Re: Dry Hops Back in my days as a geotech engineer, we always expressed moisture content in terms of dry weight....its the only true known as the wet weight can vary depending upon a variety of environmental factors. To find the moisture content we would take an initial mass (Mi), usually around 50 grams, of a quantity of soil, dry it in the oven at 120-130 C for a few hours, take another mass (M2), put it back in the oven for another hr or so, and take a final mass (Mf). If the 2nd, and 3rd mass were the same, the sample was said to be at its dry weight, if not put it back in the oven and repeat. Mi - Mf Moisture Content = ------- * 100 Mf Now, nothing really new there, but here's something that might be of interest. When drying samples with high amounts of organic matter (such as hops are!), you couldn't use high temps due to carbonization of the organics (ie burning the hops), so what you did was dry the sample at 80 C for an extended period of time, usually 1-2 days, checking the mass as in the steps above. There is an ANSI standard for all this, but I can't remember the # anymore, something about killing off the weak brain cells? I'm sure someone else out there knows it, if your really interested in some boring reading...heck there probably is one for determining the moisture content of hops. Hope this helps, - Chris Dover, NH Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 15:32:58 -0700 From: "Tomusiak, Mark" <tomusiak at amgen.com> Subject: Green Hop Beer Greetings all...I just found an interesting article for those who might be considering making beer with green hops. It is on Michael Jackson's beer page, and apparently there is British brewery that makes a special beer each year with freshly picked green hops. The article can be found at: http://www.beerhunter.com/documents/19133-000114.html Cheers, Mark Tomusiak, Boulder, Colorado. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 15:15:14 -0700 From: Mark Riley <mriley at netcom.com> Subject: Priming Sugar Rates This question was asked about 2 years ago but I can't find any replies in the archives (it was posted just before the HBD went kaput for a couple weeks so that may explain it). Basicly, I've read three articles that all suggest different priming rates when using glucose (corn sugar) and sucrose (cane or table sugar) to carbonate beer in the bottle. The rates below are those suggested by the various authors to generate 1 volume of CO2 (I've taken the liberty of expressing all figures in grams/liter): Mark Hibberd (http://hbd.org/brewery/library/YPrimerMH.html) gives 4.6 g/L for glucose and 4 g/L for sucrose. Dave Draper (http://brew.oeonline.com/~ddraper/priming.html) gives 3.7 g/L glucose and 3.5 g/L sucrose. Finally, Michael Hall (Zymurgy, Vol. 18 No. 2 Summer 1995) gives 4 g/L glucose with no explicit value given for sucrose. Hall's article is the only one to explain how he derived his priming rate. Using the simple chemical formula for ethanol production from a monosaccharide (glucose): C6H12O6 -> 2(C2H5OH) + 2(CO2) He shows that 88g of CO2 is produced for every 180g of glucose. Since there is 1.96g of CO2 in 1 liter at STP, the 180g of glucose produces 44.9 liters of CO2 or 4.01g glucose produces one liter of CO2 at STP. Doing a similar calculation for sucrose, I get 3.82 g/L. Obviously, fermentation is more complicated than the above equation implies and I'm wondering if that may explain the discrepancy in the various priming rates. George Fix (in PoBS) mentions Balling's relationship indicating 2.0665kg extract produces 1kg alcohol and 0.995kg CO2. However, "extract" actually consists of maltose, glucose, sucrose, dextrins and other sugars, so I'm not sure that Balling's relationship can be applied here. For the sake of argument, Balling's figures indicate that 48.1% of the weight of extract goes to CO2 production which is darn close to the 48.9% indicated by formula for the fermentation of glucose above (88g/180g). Needless to say I'm a bit confused since these priming rate articles are referenced extensively on the net and they just don't agree. Draper mentions that a fuller writeup of his and Hibberd's articles appears in the July/August 1996 issue of Brewing Techniques. Unfortunately (for me) I don't have access to it at the moment - perhaps someone could relate some of the details of it (like what priming rates did Draper and Hibberd finally agree on???) Any of you in possession of one of those expensive brewing tomes ;-) care to pipe in on this subject so we can put this issue to rest? Thanks for any and all feedback, Mark Riley The Beer Recipator - http://hbd.org/recipator Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 19:14:12 EDT From: AlannnnT at aol.com Subject: TSP is a crime in NY TSP is not "legal" to distribute in New York. (It looks too much like crack or something) Some stores may have old stock they can legally sell, but they cannot replenish their inventory. In New York it is legal to bring homebrew to your church. It is legal to bring homebrew to your Mom. But-- it is not legal to bring it to your local homebrew shop. Best Brewing, Alan Talman from New York, the regulation capital of the western world. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 20:10:52 -0700 From: "Richard Allison" <geobrewer at worldnet.att.net> Subject: mead/raleigh beer thanks for the info everyone on clarifying the mead. unfortunately i cannot use patience since it is for my wedding in april. if it's not ready there'll be plenty of homebrew. jonathan in #2823 wrote: >>so you are in apex? do you find raleigh, nc and the surrounding area to be totally lacking in good brewpubs/breweries? greenshield's beer to me is average to mediocre. Carolina Brewery in Holly Springs is okay. their keg beer is pretty good but they don't have much variety. their bottled beer isn't worth buying imho. i understand chapel hill has a good brewpub but haven't been there.<< rick says take a tour on saturday of carolina brewing company in holly springs. they are super nice and you get all the free beer you want. their cask-conditioned at TS Elliot's is very good. TS elliots is probly the best place to get beer in raleigh (42nd street is also good i hear). top of the hill brewpub is chapel hill is good, if pricey. to get good local microbrew variety in north carolina head to the mountains. boone and asheville both have good breweries and bars. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 20:37:46 -0400 From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: General/Clinitest Well the sudden and simultaneous reappearance of David Burley and Al Korzonas on HBD does have me wondering about conspiracy theories and multiple personalities. Perhaps this will be covered in the next X-files movie ;^) Good to see them both posting again. And some very good discussions of alt too Al, Jim. AJ kindly posts some additional test showing remarkably drops in zinc levels in finished beer. Since yeast are known to be a good source of zinc it might be educational to understand how zinc levels vary from wort to beer. Still I suspect from the data provided that the lit is correct and that zinc in wort (break removed) is quite low and that addition of roughly 0.5ppm zinc to wort is a generally good thing re yeast growth. AlK points out correctly that fusel alcohol production by yeast drops at both very low and very high amino acid levels. Of the two distinct mechanisms involved in fusel oil production though, the synthetic mechanism, active at low amino acid levels is almost certainly the dominant factor in excessively fusely beer. The yeast strain is of course important (51 to 88ppm range over a selection of yeasts in one study), and certain genetically selected yeast variants with requirements for leucine and valine also do not substantially produce the corresponding fusel oil (the synthetic mechanism is absent). A couple references point out that although ale yeasts are noted for producing more fusels (and fusels may be an important flavor component of ales in moderation) that at the same temps (10C) ale and lager yeast produced comparable amounts of fusels. Anaerobic conditions cause higher fusel levels (not surprising). Continuous agitation (like those plate stirrers!) create higher fusel levels too ! I did/do stop short of suggesting added amino acids to prevent fusel production, but OTOH a couple hundred ppm of the aminos described (leucine, isoleucine, valine) should generally inhibit the synthetic mechanism. Also note that underpitching cause additional amino acid production so drives the fusel levels higher. VDKs - the idea recent implied that VDKs and acetaldehyde are only reassimilated by lager strains is apparently incorrect. VDK production is inherently related to amino acid utilization too. Diacetyl formation can be 'strongly suppressed' by L-valine additions. A similar relationship appears to stand between 2.3-pentanedione and isoleucine. - -- Washing machine as centrifuge - I've estimated my 'Whirlpool's spin dry cycle at about 36g's. The literature suggests figures from 3,000g's to 10,000g's for 10-15 minutes for yeast separation. I seriously doubt that a washing machines spin cycle will do the job and still seek an improved method. - -- David R. Burley writes ... >Unfortunately, these results may or may >not be meaningful as a means of evaluating Clinitest or my >observation that, in my experience of several decades, a reading >of <1/4% glucose indicates the fermentation is finished. ... >Commercial beers may not always be fermented to dryness, There was no suggestion that Clinitest results were in doubt, except for my note that the eyedropper is not an accurate means of creating a measured dilution of beer. I was not evaluating Clinitest, but rather it's utility in determining the end of fermentation >Steve's results are very interesting, but they do not indicate a fault >in Clinitest, rather, perhaps in Steve's interpretation of his results >based on his implied ( but unstated) assumption that all >commercial beers are fermented dry. Even Freud allowed that sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. The interpretation is yours David. Note also that homebrew may not always be fermented dry either. Your point that residual fermentables remain in filtered commercial beer is well taken, but this fails to explain the correlation of higher Clinitest readings with stronger and more dextrinous commercial beers or my strong ale. Obviously more data would be needed for me to support this correlation fully too. In my initial post I analyzed the reducing NONfermentable sugar content of a rather fermentable wort - numbers from and EBC paper produced at Tuborg. There the conclusion was that the non-fermentable sugar content alone is sufficient to cause finished beer clinitest readings above 1/4%. The other table referenced (M&BS 2nd ed, tbl 22.5) shows several non-primed commercial beers with posited residual levels of NONfermentables above the 1/4% as glucose levels too. Whether commercial brewers do in fact remove all fermentable sugars does not impact the conclusion of the original post, tho' it does impact the interpretation of the tests of commercial products in the second post. >Just remember that it is extremely unlikely that Clinitest with its >history of nearly a century in Chemistry is wrong. No one has implied that Clinitest or the Fehling or Benedict test is inaccurate, tho' you bring this up 3 times in your post David. What is in question is Clinitest result interpretation as regards the completion of fermentation. Steve Alexander Return to table of contents
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