HOMEBREW Digest #2860 Tue 27 October 1998

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Perhaps going all grain? (The Greenman)
  Freezer temperature controller (fridge)
  Malt drying (Dan Listermann)
  salvaging yeast (Vachom)
  SS Pots ("Stuart Baunoch")
  cleaning cornie dip tubes (Jeff Renner)
  Henry Weinhard's Amber (Hans_Geittmann)
  Brewing all-grain vs. extract (Tim Anderson)
  source for "prime tabs" ("Tim Martin")
  Distilled Water Yeast Storage (Nathan Kanous)
  RIMS - Pump clogging potential/Manifold (randy.pressley)
  Rust in chest freezer (Robert Arguello)
  ph papers suck (Boeing)" <BayerMA at navair.navy.mil>
  Source for 10-gal corny kegs? (John Wilkinson)
  Vectored flow (Al Korzonas)
  Music City Brew-Off/Pub Crawl Method (Al Korzonas)
  Music City Brew-Off... cont. (Al Korzonas)
  Receptacle tester post (fridge)
  amber ale ("Bryan L. Gros")
  sanitizing the HERMS setup (Peter.Perez)
  all-grain vs. extract (Al Korzonas)
  FWH, another opinion (Al Korzonas)
  Toasty Alts, Dunkels... (Al Korzonas)
  Hopped vs unhopped braggot (PAUL W HAAF JR)
  Classic American Pilsner (Jeff Renner)
  CO2 quick disconnects (Peter.Perez)
  Canning Wort for Starters ("Andrew T. Lynch")
  Re: Home brew Digest #2858 (October 24, 1998) (curt j tuhy)
  Time on  my side (Jack Phillips)
  re:brown malt (ThomasM923)
  Kolsch yeast (Randy Ricchi)
  Re:Dunkel (ThomasM923)
  hbd # 2859, 10/26/98 ("Fred M. Scheer")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 01:36:04 -0700 From: The Greenman <greenman at sdc.org> Subject: Perhaps going all grain? Hey folks, especially you All-grainers, I haven't been brewing long, but the idea of All-graining is really tapping at my brain. All of the recent posts by very happy All-grainers has gotten me thinking about going all grain. I have the distinct advantage of having a kitchen entirely devoted to brewing. I eat with my fiance, and we do all the cooking at her place so my kitchen is crammed with brewing supplies (i.e. pots, bottles, fermenters, bottles, specialty grains, extracts, culturing equipment etc) My fridge is entirely devoted to lagering However, I do have a problem. I live in an appartment with an electric stove. I make good beer with it (since I made a buffer to go between the pot and the element) However, it has two main settings-off and burn the dial is useless. So, how should I go about getting into all-grain? Are there any indoor type burners I can buy/make? I can't brew outside so outdoor burners are out of the question. Are there any other All-grainers out there who have my problem? I'm a college student, so moving to a house is out of the question, and I want to get closer to following the German purity law, so there has to be a way. Any advice or suggestions would be great. Greenman Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 07:38:27 -0500 From: fridge at kalamazoo.net Subject: Freezer temperature controller Greetings folks, In HBD#2859, Mark Vernon asked for temperature controller recommendations for his new chest freezer. I prefer the Ranco ETC111000 digital controller. I posted a lengthy description to the HBD in June of 1997 that covers the specs in detail. Briefly, the controller is similar to the Johnson A19 in price, size and shape, but has an LCD readout of the sensed temperature. All setpoint, mode and differential settings are easily done via a touchpad on the display. Settings are easily done without the inaccuracy or trial and error common the the Johnson. The Ranco controller will need to be wired into a short extension cord for brewing use but it is easy to do by following the directions that come with the controller. Several Ranco controllers are available through WW Grainger and many refrigeration and appliance parts outlets. There is even a model that outputs a 0-10v signal that could be incorporated into a RIMS control system. Prices at WW Grainger range from just under $50 to about $70 for the various models. You can see the a picture of the controller at http://www.grainger.com The Grainger part# is 3ZP77. Hope this helps! Forrest Duddles - FridgeGuy in Kalamazoo fridge at kalamazoo.net Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 09:20:29 -0500 From: Dan Listermann <72723.1707 at compuserve.com> Subject: Malt drying <Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 10:16:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Jon Sandlin <sandlinj at ucs.orst.edu> Subject: Drying malt? I am looking forward to doing some home malting. I have found some good information in the archives on doing so. I do have one question though, how does one dry the grains after malting them? Some posts made references to using their oven? How does on use their oven to dry the grains? What type of container do I put them in? Does there need to be air flow? I would greatly appreciate any help.> I air dry my malt and maybe kiln it later in a gas oven. To air dry I place a screen box on two box fans and form cardboard around the sides. The box fans suck air down through the malt. It takes about two days to dry. I have also arranged a milk house space heater to blow air under the screen box for a warmer drying. I now have some buckwheat to dry today. For some reason its gremination rate was widely variable. Dan Listermann dan at listermann.com Jon Sandlin sandlinj at ucs.orst.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 08:24:55 -0600 From: Vachom <MVachow at newman.k12.la.us> Subject: salvaging yeast In #2858 Nick asks for advice on how to salvage an XL Wyeast "pitchable" packet he popped but couldn't use when his brewing plans went awry. Nick, stick the packet in the fridge, BUT don't just leave it there until you reschedule your brew session. Even though Wyeast claims that their big packets are pitchable as is, you'll still do much better to make a starter from it. An actively fermenting 1000ml starter made from a regular size Wyeast packet will contain more yeast cells than the XL packet. Why not really pump up your yeast cell count (and shorten lag times) by pitching an actively fermenting starter made from your XL packet. If you're going to brew this Saturday, for instance, take the packet out of the fridge on Thursday before you head for work to give the yeast cells a chance to wake up, then make the starter that evening. By Saturday morning, your starter should be going top speed. Happy brewing, Mike New Orleans, LA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 10:40:58 -0500 From: "Stuart Baunoch" <sbaunoch at homeruns.com> Subject: SS Pots Thanks for all the feedback on SS pots. I will start saving the money to buy one that have the valve and thermomentor (spelling???) on it. Thanks. For now I will have to use the one I got from Ames. Another question in this regard. Where does the slight metal taste come from afterwards??? >From the kettle or another area...???? Stuart Baunoch sbaunoch at homeruns.com Inventory Control Specialist Hannafords Homeruns Sturbridge, Massachusettes Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 10:22:47 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: cleaning cornie dip tubes George DePiro wrote: > You don't mention cleaning out the inside of your dip tube or > valves. I use a .22 caliber rifle cleaner to clean the insides of my > dip tubes. You would be amazed at the amount of junk inside of them. I've found that while the .22 cal. brush works OK, a much more thorough way is to use the .22 bullet itself. Just line up the dip tube *exactly* with the barrel of a .22 rifle (I suppose a pistol would work), clamp in place and fire off a round. Be sure of what's down range (i.e., no 240v GFIs, large glass carboys, CO2 tank necks or fruit flies). At 1200 fps, that little slug will scour out all residual beer sludge! Of course, there may be a bit of deposited lead, but it'll be sterile! I considered waiting util next April to post this, but it wouldn't have been timely then, and, what the hell, HBD is a little slow now. Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 09:00:09 -0700 From: Hans_Geittmann at notes.seagate.com Subject: Henry Weinhard's Amber Someone asked about duplicating Weinhardt's amber ale... Ever see the Simpson's episode where Homer and Barney go on the Duff Brewery tour and one pipe comes down from the ceiling and splits into 3 tanks- "Duff", "Duff Dry", and "Duff Dark" (or something like that)? My point is that Henry's is a lot like that- several different "styles" in different colored bottles that all taste pretty much the same. Henry's was introduced to the SF Bay Area while I was in college there- you could get a 12 pack of bottles of Green (Ale), Blue (Dark), or Red (Red Ale) for $3.50 (yes, we referred to the beer by bottle color, not beer style). The price slowly went up, but one summer during grad school they had a coupon promotion where you could get a 12 pack at Safeway for $5.50, mail the rebate coupon in and get $4 back. Anyway, recipe for 5 gallons of Weinhard's <insert style here>: 4.75 gallons of Budmillcoors .25 gallons of Boston Brewing Company's <insert style here> As far as "Amber" goes as a style- it seems like brewpubs brew this as their beer for the masses- broad appeal, nothing too adventurous flavor-wise, that kind of thing. I'd say it's usually somewhere between a pale and brown ale in color, not too hoppy, not too malty- pretty middle of the road flavor, but it varies from brewer to brewer. - -- Hans Geittmann Seagate Technology Hans_Geittmann at notes.seagate.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 08:36:49 -0800 (PST) From: Tim Anderson <timator at yahoo.com> Subject: Brewing all-grain vs. extract Perspective of an unapologetic extract brewer: I've been making extract beers at the rate of about one 5 gallon batch a month for nine years. If I had fewer demands on my time, I would definitely give all-grain a whirl. But my life doesn't seem to work that way, and I doubt I'll even give it a try before retirement. To others who have limited brewing time available, but want to increase the fun and variety, as well as make better beer, there are many variables to play with. First, brewing from a kit is a great way to do a first batch. It's easy to make an OK beer this way and get past the first-timer fear. After that, forget the kit. There is plenty of entertainment to be had juggling hopping schedules, different methods of chilling, a wide variety of adjunct grains, dry hopping, conditioning in bottles vs kegs, blowoff or not, fining, aeration, when and how to do yeast starters, matching yeast, hops, grains, ferment temp. It goes on and on. Lately, my favorite toy is a one gallon new-oak barrel. You can start with the same "bucket o' light" and make a bazillion different beers. And make every batch a new experience. All-grain someday for sure. But for now, I can have a lot of fun and brew decent beer in about three hours. Including mopping the kitchen floor. tim == Please ignore the advertisement below. Thank you. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 11:35:26 -0500 From: "Tim Martin" <TimMartin at southwest.cc.nc.us> Subject: source for "prime tabs" Hey Neighbors, Will someone please direct me to a mail order source for "prime tabs". These were mentioned four or five months ago but nobody mentioned where to get them. They sound perfect for my occasional split keg/bottle situation. Thanks, Tim Martin Cullowhee, NC Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 11:29:37 -0600 From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu> Subject: Distilled Water Yeast Storage Dave Whitman says: >The effect is rather dramatic. For Wyeast 1968, the number of dead cells >was 8 times higher in the pure water sample than in 2% buffer! T-tests >indicate that the increase in viability in the buffer relative to r/o water >is statistically significant for both yeast strains. My question: Dave, where do I easily find Potassium di-hydrogen orthophosphate (KH2PO4)? nathan Nathan in Madison, WI Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 12:49:02 -0500 From: randy.pressley at SLKP.COM Subject: RIMS - Pump clogging potential/Manifold I'm getting ready modify my existing system to support RIMS. My concern is wear and tear on the pump when small amounts of grains go thru it. I was thinking about putting in a Y strainer or a trap between the pump inlet and mash tun. Am I worrying for nothing? Also concerning the copper manifold. Seems like the H shaped manifold using 1/2" copper pipe and tees is the most popular design. My question here is instead of soldering the copper together could I just use flare fittings. This could save me some money on soldering equipment. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 09:57:01 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Arguello <robertac at calweb.com> Subject: Rust in chest freezer After only a couple years of service as a fermenting cooler, my relatively new chest freezer is rusting. The rust is eating at the interior walls and floor of the unit, especially at seam areas. There is a LOT of moisture present in the freezer at all times so I suppose that I shouldn't be too surprised at this development. Can someone suggest a treatment? I suspect that it will involve some sanding of the rusted areas then a coat of some sort of paint? Suggestions as to what I should use to cover the interior surfaces would be greatly appreciated. - -------------------------------------- Robert Arguello <robertac at calweb.com> Corny Kegs for sale - www.calweb.com/~robertac/keg.htm Promash Brewing Software - www.calweb.com/~robertac/promash Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 12:10:17 -0500 From: "Bayer, Mark A (Boeing)" <BayerMA at navair.navy.mil> Subject: ph papers suck collective homebrew conscience: jeremy b wrote: > We have this type of pH paper in my lab and they suck! I forget> the brand, but they DO NOT agree with our pH meter. Several years> back I ordered one of every brand of pH paper in one of our> supply catalogs (Fisher or VWR I believe) that covered the brewing> range. I found pHydrion brand to be the best in terms of accuracy. what would be helpful is if you have the calibration data, jeremy. then we would all know how much and in which direction our ph papers suck. brew hard, mark bayer Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 98 12:14:18 CST From: jwilkins at wss.dsccc.com (John Wilkinson) Subject: Source for 10-gal corny kegs? Tidmarsh Major asked about a source for 10 gallon Cornelius type kegs. I got my 10 gallon Cornelius type keg from Amber Waves Brewing Supplies in Decatur, Georgia. Their address was 2808 LaVista Road, Decatur, GA 30033 and the telephone was (404) 315-1100. I don't know if they are still around or if they have more of the kegs, but you could try their number. I got mine almost three years ago (12/1/95) John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkins at wss.dsccc.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 13:36:44 -0600 (CST) From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> Subject: Vectored flow John writes: >Then you need to consider how much area you need to cover. A manifold >pipe can adequately lauter an area of 2-3 inches to either side, which >means that you can space your manifold pipes 4-6 inches apart to achieve >good coverage of the lauter tun bottom. ...and later: >If you use a manifold or Easymasher (tm) type setup, deeper is better >because as you approach the drain, the flow becomes vectored toward the >drain resulting in more flow thru the grain around the drain, and >less(slower) flow at areas away from the drain I'm eagerly awaiting your experimental data although if you have references (not including your own article ;^) that corroborate these assertions, could you poste them now, so we can dig them up? I don't disagree with either, actually, but I've always questioned whether these differences (which look big in theory) are actually big enough to cause a noticeable difference in yield. I did a very preliminary test using various lauter tun designs (see my article in the Great Grains Special Issue of Zymurgy)... just to see if there were *radical* differences in yield... and found that the differences appear to be relatively small. I'm looking forward to seeing the report. Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 14:07:45 -0600 (CST) From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> Subject: Music City Brew-Off/Pub Crawl Method Just a quick note (unintentional pun) to let y'all know about my experience at this last weekend's Music City Brew-Off in Nashville, TN. The competition was extremely well-run. Judging was at Bosco's Brewpub (home of one of the world's few Steinbiers) which was virtually donated to the club for the duration of the competition. The pre-competition pot-luck dinner on Friday, post-competition pub crawl on Saturday night (which included a visit to Blackstone's where Dave Miller is head brewer) and brunch Sunday morning were also outstanding. Both beer and judging were of the highest quality. I urge everyone to try to enter and attend next year if you can. By the way: the design of the pub crawl was very good. Since the pubs were slightly spread out, a van ran multiple trips from pub-to-pub throughout the night. How it worked was, from 5 to 7pm it ran from pub A to B. From 7 to 9pm, it ran from B to C,D and E. From 9 to 11 it ran from C,D and E back to A. This way, a particular pub was not swamped with 50 crawlers... they came in smaller waves. A map helped get crawlers from C to D to E on foot. Perhaps this might come to be known as the "Music City Method?" Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 14:28:59 -0600 (CST) From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> Subject: Music City Brew-Off... cont. I got to thinkin' `bout my post and figured I should mention how friendly all the folks were in Nashville... not only the local HBers, but also those who made the trip from Memphis and Knoxville, as well as Alabama and Georgia. I believe there may have been a few HBers from Kentucky too. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 15:45:43 -0500 From: fridge at kalamazoo.net Subject: Receptacle tester post Greetings folks, After reading my receptacle tester post this morning I thought I sounded like I was picking on Jeremy. That wasn't my intent, and I'm sorry if it sounded that way. I used Jeremy's name to identify the source of information I was referring to in my post. Hope this helps! Forrest Duddles - FridgeGuy in Kalamazoo fridge at kalamazoo.net Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 13:03:35 -0800 From: "Bryan L. Gros" <gros at bigfoot.com> Subject: amber ale kieth writes: > I've been sharing a few HBs with a guy at work and the HB bug has >bitten him ;-). He came to me with a request to help him brew a Henry >Weinhardt Amber Ale. This is a good thing... but, ah, I don't know >anything about the beer. I have never had it. I'll try and hunt it down this >weekend though. Is an Amber Ale a true style that I just have never heard >of? ;-P well, the AHA says it is a style, and there was a good article in Brewing Techniques (Vol 3 No. 6) which argues for recognition of American Amber Ale as a style. Other people would argue that AAA is simply a subset of American Pale Ale. Good commercial examples include Red Tail ale and Red Nectar. Anyway, a good amber is generally a deep amber/copper ale which is balanced with malt and hops. So get your favorite pale ale recipe, use half the hops, and double the crystal malt. Use maybe a pound of crystal malt (dark, like 80 L) to get some sweetness in five gallons. Use maybe 25IBUs of hops. >BTW: There is a new brewer amongst us. Her name is Nicole Diane >Christian. Congratulations Bryan Gros gros at bigfoot.com Oakland, CA Check out the Draught Board website: http://www.dnai.com/~thor/dboard/index.htm Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 11:58:05 -0500 From: Peter.Perez at smed.com Subject: sanitizing the HERMS setup I have a question for the HERMS users. How do you sanitize the inside of your copper coil heat exchanger before you start pumping wort thru it? Thanks, Pete Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 15:12:31 -0600 (CST) From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> Subject: all-grain vs. extract Alan asks for opinions on all-grain vs. extract. I agree 100% that the difference between the time to do partial-mash and all-grain is minimal. If you are already doing partial-mash, time shouldn't be an excuse to not try all-grain. I would like to respectfully disagree regarding the quality of the finished beer. I believe the *main* reason that all-grain batches are often superior to all-grain is stale extract. Old malt will make much better beer than old malt extract. Another reason may be that generally-speaking, all-grain brewers are simply more experienced than extract brewers. I'll bet that if an experienced all-grainer brewed, say, an American Amber Ale from fresh extract, the result would probably be as good as a similar brew from all-grain. Now, I'm not saying that there's no reason to do all-grain... 90% of the brewing I do now is all-grain, but primarily because all-grain: 1. allows me to make wort from 100% Munich malt, 2. allows me to use oats, raw barley, unmalted wheat, rye, rye malt, etc., 3. is almost required for making styles like Wit, Koelsch, German Pils, Duesseldorfer Altbier, Munchner Dunkel, Roggen, etc., 4. is more challenging when making a 1.100 OG Barleywine or Imperial Stout, and 5. is fun. Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 15:55:20 -0600 (CST) From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> Subject: FWH, another opinion Jeremy writes: >I started first wort hopping many of my beers about a year ago, and I am >very pleased with the results. First Wort hopping (FWH) is just as it >sounds; you add your bittering hops directly to the first runnings of the >wort. The acidity of the wort facilitates extraction of the alpha acids in >the hop. Have you read this somewhere or are you speculating? I believe this shouldn't be correct. As the acidity of the wort goes up, the utilisation goes down and the acidity of the "first wort" is actually lower than that of the wort later in the boil. If it's true that acidity has something to do with the utilisation, then I'd be interested to read about it... however, I think we all need to be careful to not make any rash assumptions and introduce new incorrect concepts into our collective brewing knowledge base. > The increased extraction of the alpha acids is compensated by the >fact that some of the bitterness will be lost in the hot break. The current >theory is that you do not need to increase the amount of hops when FW >hopping. The article sited by Dr. Fix was in Brauwelt International. It said that the aroma hops (those set aside for the late addition) were added into the kettle during the taking of the runnings. The increased bitterness of these hops would be due to the fact that they were now boiled 60 (or more) minutes rather than the 5 (or less) minutes they were boiled in the original recipe. It is true, however, that you would not get as much bitterness from FWH as you would from a similar 60 minute (normal) addition. *This* is where the *speculation* that the reason for this is that some of the bitterness is lost in the hot break (I originated this as the possible reason for the difference in bitterness). Typically, in commercial operations, the bittering hops are not added until 10 minutes into the boil (except for a small amount sometimes added to minimise the risk of boilover), until after the hot break has formed. My own experiment clearly showed a lower utilisation for hops added before the hot break, relative to those added after the break. As for increasing or decreasing the hops, in the experiment Dr. Fix sited, they did not compensate for the fact that they would get more bitterness from moving the aroma addition to FWH. I do not understand why you would even suggest that the hops might be increased. Nobody, to my knowledge, has suggested they should be. >Great, so why FWH? I have found that I get a cleaner, sharper bitterness >when I FWH my German Ales, and Lagers. The bitterness is not "Muddled". An >interesting side effect of FWH is that there is also an increased >perception of hops in both the flavor and the aroma. I had been led to >believe that most the flavor and aroma compounds are volatile, and will >dissipate during a long boil; but apparently this is not always the case. >FWH is great for Pilsners, Octoberfests, Kolsch and Alts, but I have yet to >try it in an English or American style beer. From what I have read, FWH >should only be done with noble type hops (i.e. Spalt, Saaz) On the contrary, in my experiment (which, admittedly was done with a very large amount of FWH) I found a muddled bitterness obscured by excessive hop flavour. I certainly would not have called the bitterness "cleaner" or "sharper." I found that there was virtually no hop aroma contributed and that the FWH added primarily bitterness and hop flavour. I would STRONGLY discourage brewers from using FWH or any hopping later than T-60 minutes in Altbiers because neither hop flavour nor aroma are typically found in the non-Sticke version of this style. My experiment, was done with Czech Saaz, incidentally. Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 16:26:06 -0600 (CST) From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> Subject: Toasty Alts, Dunkels... Dave writes: >That said, there is ongoing discussions whether the state of continental >munich malts is as it once was (George Fix and Scott Bickham have both >commmented on this) and the possibility that home production may be an >excellent source for the depth of taosty flavor that is found in the >best alts, dunkles, fests, and bocks. Be creative. But don't expect to >make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Someone wrote me regarding this offline and I'd like to comment on it. I believe that while there might be some toasty character from Munich malts, the primary character that Munich malts have is from melanoidins. I can appreciate the difficulty in expressing the character imparted by melanoidins, so I don't fault Dave for choosing the word "toasty" although since at least one other person was stunned by this statement, I thought I might try to help sort it out. The best way, in my opinion, to learn how melanoidins contribute to beer is to compare a beer like Spaten Oktoberfest with a beer like Beck's Dark. If you can't get Spaten, try Ayinger Oktober Fest-Maerzen or Paulaner Oktoberfest. If you get to visit Germany, compare beers like Spaten Dunkel or Augustiner Dunkel to Beck's Dark. These are made with even more melanoidins. You may have some trouble finding Beck's Dark, however... no kidding. I wouldn't choose the word "toasty" to characterise this difference, although some might... I don't know... I'm just trying to help clarify a possible point of confusion. Really, the best way is to compare these beers. You can then call it whatever you think it should be called. I, personally, call it "melanoidin aroma" or "melanoidin flavour." Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 16:23:51 -0500 From: haafbrau1 at juno.com (PAUL W HAAF JR) Subject: Hopped vs unhopped braggot I never received a resonse to my braggot question, so I'm reposting. What's a hopped braggot taste like? Does it tast more like a strong ale? I know an unhopped braggot is a little sweet with no bitterness at all. Mine second batch of braggot is fermenting now. It's unhopped, and I used a 1.4 lb Alexander's dark malt kicker, 3.3 lb Munton's Wheat malt extract, and roughly 5.5 lbs (60 fl oz) of unprocessed wildflower honey. My guess is I can always dry hop if I want to. Any comments? Brew long and prosper, Paul Haaf haafbrau1atjunodotcom ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 18:04:07 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Classic American Pilsner Last week (I've been on vacation), William Frazier <billfrazier at worldnet.att.net> wrote; >I really believe >these American beers produced 30 to 40 yrs ago were pretty good >brews with a lot more flavor than todays versions. > >I'm looking for an all-grain recipe that might come close to the >Pabst brew of the past. In particular the grain bill, hop varities >and amounts (please indicate IBU calculation method or give HBUs) >and mash temperatures. Lots of brewers agree with you, Bill. I've chosen to lump together both pre- and post-prohibition pilsners under the name Classic American Pilsner (CAP), and that name has caught on pretty well. It has been accepted as a style for competitions by AHA and BJCP, as well as MCAB, and entries have done very well. I took a Best of Show last year at the Michigan State Fair. See below for more details. and Peter.Perez at smed.com wrote: I am also looking to locate some CAP and Pre-pro lager recipes. Does anyone know of a good source of quality recipes on the web? Or anywhere else for that matter? See my article in Brewing Techniques: "Reviving the Classic American Pilsner - A Shamefully Neglected Style" by Jeff Renner http://brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue3.5/renner.html and two previous ones that inspired me: "The Bushwick Pilsners: A Look at Hoppier Days " by Ben Jankowski http://brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue2.1/jankowski.html "Explorations in Pre-Prohibition American Lagers" by George J. Fix http://brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue2.3/fix.html. Zymurgy did a cover story maybe 1-1/2 years ago. While the beer I made and described in the article was great, I've made some refinements for my standard brew. Instead of flaked maize (which is easier and still works fine), I use coarse corn meal and do a cereal mash (mash the corn with 30% malt for 15 minutes at 153F, then boil 20-40 minutes and add to main mash that has been resting no more than 20 minutes at 122 - this should bring it to 140F, rest here 20-30 minutes, then raise to 158, rest 20-30 minutes, then mash off). With the cerreal mash, I leave out the Munich malt, feeling the melanoidin production of the cereal boil increases the maltiness. I also use first wort hopping (see recent posts for details) and aim for mid to upper 30's IBU rather than the 25 IBU original. I think that yeast selection is not critical. This is a great style and I encourage both of you and other brewers to try it. I continue to get email at least once a month from people who've tried it and love it. Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 15:56:57 -0500 From: Peter.Perez at smed.com Subject: CO2 quick disconnects Where is a good place to get some quick disconnects for my CO2 setup? I want to use these so that I can switch between my CPBF, keg-o-rator faucet, picnic tap, carbonator cap, etc. Has anyone installed a dial thermometer on their Gott mash tun? Where did ya get the therm from and how did you install it? Thanks, Pete Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 15:14:53 -0800 From: "Andrew T. Lynch" <drew at surefirev.com> Subject: Canning Wort for Starters Is there any reason not to can wort for use in yeast starters? It is a small but annoying chore to boil up DME with hops, and then chill it for starters. I step my starters twice, so I do this two times per batch. As I was setting up my recipe for the weekends brew (an ESB), I realized that it would be much easier to increase the recipe by a half gallon or so, take the excess as I fill the fermenters, and boiling bath can it in quart jars. Then, to make a starter, sanitize the jar of wort and the starter flask, pop in the yeast and the wort. No boiling, no chilling, less work. - -- Andrew T. Lynch, Chief Zymurgist, SureFire Verification (408)374-4100 x301 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 23:14:51 -0600 From: hophead2 at juno.com (curt j tuhy) Subject: Re: Home brew Digest #2858 (October 24, 1998) The Wyeast in its foil package is ok for storage for at least 6 months after it has been activated, all you need to do is keep it in a cool place and about 2-4 days before you are ready to brew you can make a starter slurry for use in that brew. (I always keep my wyeast for many brews by keeping it in a STERILIZED zip lock bag in the refrigerator and i have kept it for a full year and it worked fine when used for a starter) ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 98 16:05:00 -0800 From: Jack Phillips <jphillip at FUTUREX.COM> Subject: Time on my side Musings on the benefits of having an extra hour in a day. Decided that Sunday would be a great day to brew, so set off to Charley's to harvest some Scottish Ale yeast, then on to the Wine Smith to pick up a few supplies such as malt and hops. Sunday morning arrived with temperatures in the high forties and a few clouds in an otherwise blue sky. As I hadn't set the clock back when I went to bed I felt that the time could be used to my advantage to actually complete a fall/winter beer before darkness falls. Started the Mash water, ground the grain and brewed a pot of coffee (needed to keep those eyes open on a Sunday morning. At 8:30 AM everything was going fine grain was in the mashtun, mash-water was approaching the strike water temperature. As I was using my newly purchased mashtun I was not aware of some of the finer details associated with it. Added sufficient water to cover the false bottom (2.5 gallons), added approximately half the grain to the mashtun, mixed with the existing water then added another measure of water followed by the second half of the grist. I knew that the mash appeared to have an over abundance of water, but I had calculated and re-calculated the water figures and new I had the right amount. At this point I should probably mention that I was attempting to brew Charley's Two Tub Russian. Still not a problem 37.5 # of grain, 47 quarts of water(used approximately 40% of the total capacity of the mashtun), mash for two hours at 155(F. 10:40 AM now the fun begins opened the spigot and waited for the fresh wort to run forth..(nothing) added sparge water to the underside of the false bottom, nothing, added more water to the mash, nothing (turning into a long day) stirred the mash to the bottom of the tun hoping to unplug the false bottom, still nothing. Finally got my old mashtun out, installed the old Phils phalse bottom and transferred the grain via large pitcher to the old mashtun. Filled the old tun up to the top with the mashed grains and hot wort. Extracted the wort and sparged to clear the grains. Well maybe a little to much sparging as I ended up with approximately 13.8 gallons of wort into the boiler and half of the grain was still in the mashtun. Refired the HLT and brought the water back up to sparge water temperature. Added 3 more gallons of water to the mash and let steep for an additional 15 minutes to raise the mash temperature. Removed about half of the grain bed in the old mashtun, and dumped the rest of the mash from the new tun into the old tun for lautering. Didn't really sparge this portion, I just extracted what liquid remained, which was nearly 4.5 gallons of wort. Now what to do ? I use a Half barrel keg to boil and at 13.5 gallons you couldn't get any more in to it without a major boil over. Fortunately being the proud owner of two Sanke kegs I just fired up the second boiler, adding the last 4.5 gallons of wort to the second boiler and pulling a portion from the first boiler to even out the boil. With approximately 9.0 gallons in each boiler and looking for a final of 8 gallons total (it really was turning into a long day). Grabbed the vacuum sealed packages of hops (was wanting to use Centennial) and found that one of the packets did indeed contain Centennial at 8.8 AAUs however the other packet contained Yakima Kent Goldings 5.46 AAU. Well Charley's recipe called for a whole bunch of high AAU Centennial, I started frantically searching for more in the frig. No Centennial, but almost a full ounce of Northern Brewer at 9.9 AAU, in the boil it went along with the remains of two ounces of Cascade. Somewhere between 3 and 4 hours later I had approximately 9.0 gallons in a single boiler (now around 4:30 PM..daylight time). Added 2 ounces of EKG at knockout and cooled and let stand for 30 minutes waiting for the break and trub to drop. Racked to the primaries and finished by 6:20 PM (its getting dark out here). Got 8.5 gallons at 1.095, was shooting for 1.102, and probably would have got it if I had taken another hour to reduce the wort to 8 gallons. Aerated the new wort and pitched the yeast from Charley. Had the beginnings of a fermentation within an hour of pitching, and this morning there was a happy bunch of yeast producing a steady stream of CO2 from the fermentation lock and a nice thick krausen on the surface of the wort. I have call this beer "Old Mashtun Imperial Stout". While cleaning up the new mashtun it was noted that the false bottom was not plugged with grain nor was there a large quantity of grain under the false bottom. Upon close inspection I noticed that the widget which is used to recover a large portion of the wort from under the false bottom, could under the weight of the grain contact the bottom of the mashtun in such a manner as to prevent any flow of wort. This has since been modified and hopefully the problem will no longer occur. As it turned out I did finish before it got dark and then I set my clock back to standard time which lead me to feel a whole lot better about the day. Cheers Jack Phillips A few miles east of Charley where we brew on the timberline Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 21:25:22 EST From: ThomasM923 at aol.com Subject: re:brown malt "I recently saw some "brown malt" in a local hb supply, and decided to try it out. I did NOT, unfortunately, ask for the specific name of the malt, but purchased 4lb." Was this English brown malt? I used this malt in a porter once and was very pleased with the results. It gives a nice dry malty flavor and should be used to add complexity to the overall flavor profile. I would not recommend using it as a base malt, it doesn't have any enzymes and I read somewere that at high levels it can create a harsh flavor. I think the recommended rate is between 5-15%. My recipe for porter used ~7% and I will probably try 10% the next time. "The next day I added this 4 lb of brown malt to 4lb of Mairs Otter Pale malt, along with 1 lb flaked barley, and about 1/3 cup of Black Patent. Protein rest (a la Miller), conversion for 2 hours, etc...." Don' t use a protein rest with British malts. They are highly modified grains (proteins are already broken down) and a protein rest will most likely leave you with weak head retention due to the further degradation of the medium length protein molecules (you want these to remain). - ---Thomas Murray Maplewood, NJ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 21:26:20 -0500 From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at ccisd.k12.mi.us> Subject: Kolsch yeast I've used Kolsch yeast once before (Wyeast), in a kolsch, of all things! :^) It was very smooth, very clean, if I recall correctly (it was a couple, three years ago). I was wondering if anyone has used it to brew lager-style beers such as pilsner, Octoberfest, Bock, etc., and if so, did you feel the yeast made a good pseudo-lager? I have a "Classic American Dort" in primary right now, using YCKC kolsch yeast. Used 19-20% flaked maize, similar amount of Briess Munich, and the balance German pils. Syrian Goldings for bittering with Hallertau Mittelfruh for flavor and (hopefully) aroma. Since my basement doesn't get very cold in the winter It's a bit of work to achieve good lager fermenting temps, and I've always wished I could find a yeast that could do a real good job of producing the lager flavor at slightly warmer temps (right now, the basement floor is approx. 60 F, and it won't get much cooler throughout the winter, because it's almost completely underground - no exposed walls like on some homes. Anyway, I suppose I'll find out soon enough without bothering you folks, but I am curious if anyone has had experience with the maltier types (Bock, Octoberfest). I will post my findings on my Classic American Dort. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 22:26:58 EST From: ThomasM923 at aol.com Subject: Re:Dunkel "Can anyone point me towards information on a grain bill for this beer. I was thinking 50% Pils malt, 48% Munich malt, and 2% chocolate. Am I close? That's % extract, of course :-)" According to an excellent article in a 1996 BrewingTechniques (vol. 4, issue 4.1), that's about right. Some German brewers use up to 99% Munich malt, although they may be using a malt that is specially made for them. I didn't have very good results with a Dunkel I made with a 63% Munich. It seemed a little dull and one dimensional. Next time I will stick with ~30% Munich to let some of the Pils malt come through. There is a good recipe for dunkel in Papazion's The Home Brewers Companon. It's the Jack Be Nimble... one. He only uses ~21% Munich malt. This was one of the first beer I brewed and it tasted really good. Even the hop rate was right on target (somewhat surprising for Charlie P.) Good luck! - ---Thomas Murray Maplewood, NJ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 20:44:31 -0700 From: "Fred M. Scheer" <maltster at marsweb.com> Subject: hbd # 2859, 10/26/98 Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 08:12:09 -0900 From: Fred and Sue Nolke <fnolke at alaska.net> WROTE: Malt Freshness 2. More and more of us are buying bags of malt these days as they have become available at reasonable prices. Personally, I am frustrated at not knowing how fresh the bag is that I am buying. Could be years old, and then I am going to keep it another two or three months. Sure would be useful if Briess, Bioriginal, etc. would see it as a competitive quality issue to put the date bagged on it. Sue and Fred, I know how frustrating it is if you have no way of checking the age of the (Costly) malt on bags. What I have done was that the maltster was required to give me the harvesting year of the malt, the day of packing, etc, via the lot # reported on the bags. I see that in the future the maltsters will do the same what Craft Brewers do on their beer labels; born on date......, bottling date.....; or best used by date.......... The packaging date is more important when purchasing already milled malt; infections can be in the malt bag; breakdown of starch already occured; flavor absorbion from surounding areas; etc. Call your supplier and I hope they more than happy to help you. From: "Ed D'Anna" <edannaNOSPAM at webt.com> WROTE: Subject: All-grain brew with Munich malt (it was Weisenheimer) ...............but I recall that David told me that the malt was Weisenheimer. Ed, thank you very much for the posting about the PROBLEM malt. That's what I said in my recent posting ; I OBSERVED MORE PROBLEMS WITH IMPORT MALT THAN WITH US MALT. Fred M. Scheer MALT MONTANA maltster at marsweb.com Return to table of contents
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