HOMEBREW Digest #2869 Fri 06 November 1998

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Re: Woodruff (Alan Edwards)
  flaked barley/ or flaked wheat (head retention): question (LEAVITDG)
  Dutch Homebrwing (Brad Railsback)
  flaked barly ("Theo.Elzinga")
  to RIMS or not too ("Thomas Kramer")
  Cider Priming (Rod Schaffter)
  NL HB (Keith Busby)
  Deutscheland (James.Tiefenthal)
  RE: Canning Wort ("John Lifer, jr")
  Re: Dekoninck (Jim Grady)
  Scale for brewing (Jim Grady)
  CAP and flaked maize (Nathan Kanous)
  Sugar is as sugar does (Eric.Fouch)
  Brewery Setup (MARK.KIRKBY)
  1338 ferment time (Andrew Stavrolakis)
  Re:  Brewtek Yeasts ("Tomusiak, Mark")
  Belgian corrections (Jeremy Bergsman)
  pressure and temperature (Boeing)" <BayerMA at navair.navy.mil>
  Brew Day In Squamish, B.C. (DaskeF)
  Re: Oregon Brew Crew ("Brian Rezac")
  Re: Yeast Update (Brett Gober)
  Malt question ("George De Piro")
  Electric Stove ("DARMARHAD")
  Harvesting yeast from bottled beers / Infected Belgian beers ("George De Piro")
  Carbonating Stone Use ("Marc Battreall")
  Winey Characteristics in Kolsch ("Mark Prior")
  Yeast Cleaning & BrewTek Slants (Ken Houtz)
  Competition Announcement ("Bryan L. Gros")
  RE: Pumps and Plumbing ("Houseman, David L")
  More malting questions (Ian Lyons)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 21:32:21 -0800 (PST) From: Alan Edwards <ale at cisco.com> Subject: Re: Woodruff Eric Fouch asked: > I recently had a very nice white wine from St. Julians (here in > Michigan) that was spiced with woodruff (sp?). Slightly sweet, still > and spicy...which got me to thinking.....has anybody heard of using > woodruff in beer or mead? Yes! I had a wonderful woodruff ale about 5 years ago brewed by San Andreas Brewing Co. (I think). It was awesome. It was a medium bodied ale, on the light side in color (similar to Anchor Steam) and had a wonderful nose and flavor from the woodruff. It was on the malty side--I don't remember any hops (but it was a while ago). Woodruff is very interesting in flavor, very hard to describe. When I first tasted it it struck me as *similar* to cinnamon. I have some in my hand right now, and the smell reminds me of sweet tobacco--not the stinky oder that comes from burning the stuff, but the sweet smell wafting from a pipe-tobacco shop. It's prety subtle. Funny that didn't occur to me at all when I tasted that ale many years ago--I distinctly remember muted cinnamon-like flavors (much more mellow than real cinnamon). I bought some because someday I will try to brew that woodruff ale that I remember. But I have NO idea how much to put in, or when. I'd guess that putting it at the end of the boil would work, but how much? Does anybody have experience with brewing with woodruff? Thanks! -Alan in Fremont, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 06:12:50 -0500 (EST) From: LEAVITDG at SPLAVA.CC.PLATTSBURGH.EDU Subject: flaked barley/ or flaked wheat (head retention): question I am trying differnet things for head retention, and am stumped as to the difference between flaked barley (suggested to me by a very good local brewpub head brewer) and wheat (flaked, torrified?) for head re tention and head quality. If anyone has thoughts on this I would really appreciate it. <so little time.....and so much to brew!> ..Darrell Leavitt Plattsburgh, New York. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 03:27:40 -0800 (PST) From: Brad Railsback <rails2bier at yahoo.com> Subject: Dutch Homebrwing I am sorry if I insulted any Nederlanders. There are several homebrew clubs in the Netherlands. From what I saw they are just as adaptable as US homebrewers in taking everyday equipment and adapting it to brewing. I never did brew while I was there as you could buy almost any Trappist beer for under $1.50 per bottle. The one thing I would brew there would be stouts or porters as you have your choice of Guiness or if you go to a specialty store you could find some good UK examples. The problem was that because of the strength of the British pound and high taxes they where over $3.00 per .5 liters or British pint. The Andechs Dopple Bock was 4 feet away and about $1.50(about 3 times the German price), even I could figure out what to do in this case. If ever you are in Amsterdam do not miss the Bier Koning, they even have bud, miller and coors(don't ask me why, ask Vlo the owner). There is also a nice shop in Den Haag called Wijn and Bier Boutique at Leyweg 803-805. Take tram 8 or 9 to the Leyweg stop and turn left while walking the same way the tram was going. They have a nice selection of German beers and always have some kind of special where you can get 5 for 10 Giulders(slightly more than $1 a bottle). Good beer hunting, Brad _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 12:44:02 -0800 From: "Theo.Elzinga" <Theo.Elzinga at icu.nl> Subject: flaked barly Brad Railsback wrote > I forget what translates to gerstevlokken. A good translation is flaked barley. Begian recipes often ask for unmalted barley or wheat and flaked barley is a good solution for unmalted. Indeed is 10 liters the standard for Dutch recipes Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 08:06:03 -0500 From: "Thomas Kramer" <tkramer at monad.net> Subject: to RIMS or not too I have been doing all grain for about two years now using gott/igloo coolers and a single keg/brew pot, I just started doing 10 gal patches, I find it's time to upgrade my system. I have always thought of building some kind of a 3 tier system, but now with all the talk about RIMS, I am more confused then ever. My main problem with my current system is that my keg does not have a false bottom it only has a ball vale off the side witch always gets clogged with hop's and I have a hard time transferring my cooled wort to my fermentor, I usually end up poring the wort from the keg into a cooler fitted with a false bottom, and use it s a hop back. But with 10 gal patches it very hard to pour the keg into a cooler. I guess my question is what did you gain by using RIMS, if it's just efficiency, it seems to me it would just as easy to use more grain. Having never had the opportunity to see a RIMS system in use, I not shore if I should buy a prefab false bottom for my one keg, or buy a prebuilt system or what. I am not very mechanically inclined, although I do have a welder who will do work for me. If there is any one who lives in southwestern NH or, Southern VT who has a RIMS or 3 tier system I could see I would be a great help. Tom Keene, NH Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 08:15:21 -0500 From: Rod Schaffter <schaffte at delanet.com> Subject: Cider Priming Bill Jankowski writes: > As usual, I'm flying by night, and hadn't thought about all points of > my brew prior to throwing it in the fermenter. I've got 3 gallons of > cider fermenting with champagne yeast, and am planning on bottling all > of it. If I prime it with more fresh cider, how much should I use to > get adequate but not excessive carbonation? I primed my last batch of 4 gal., fermented with EDME yeast, with 48 oz. of store-bought apple juice (Check to make sure there are no preservatives added). This resulted on carbonation comparable to an ale after six months. Probably champagne yeast will be a little quicker! Cheers! Rod Schaffter Former Texan Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 07:35:46 -0600 From: Keith Busby <kbusby at ou.edu> Subject: NL HB Sjef is probably correct about the reason for the underdevelopment of homebrewing in The Netherlands, although the variety of (especially Belgian) beer he refers to has not always been available there. The specialized cafes (e.g., Jan Primus in Utrecht) were something of a rarity until quite recently; now every city has one or more and liquor stores sell more variety. This is only party true of the UK, however, where homebrewing also still lags behind the US. On a recent stay in the UK (and I can say this brazenly because I am a [bad] Brit), I was disappointed by the quality of beer in the pubs, even those which claimed to have "real ale", and the variety in the supermarkets and liquor stores was not good. My guess is that the Brits are just not (by and large) aware of the variety of Belgian beers and think British beer is best. Now I'll just wait for my compatriots to accuse me of being disloyal to the crown. Keith Busby Keith Busby George Lynn Cross Research Professor Center for Medieval and Renaissance Studies University of Oklahoma 780 Van Vleet Oval, Room 202 Norman, OK 73019 Tel: (405) 325-5088. Fax: (405) 325-0103 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 08:54:34 -0500 From: James.Tiefenthal at rossnutrition.com Subject: Deutscheland Reviewing the info on the earlier thread about Alt has made me really thirsty, so to quench this thirst I have decided to go to the original source and visit Dusseldorf and Koln (It helps that my employer is sending me). Can anyone in the collective add any don't miss stops/ pubs / brewpubs other than what is outlined by Jackson for these two areas? Also, any tips on bringing quantities of bier back to the states. Thanks for your help, private E-mail is ok. Jim Tiefenthal SODZ Hombrew Club Member Cowlumbus, OH Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 08:13:34 -0600 From: "John Lifer, jr" <jliferjr at misnet.com> Subject: RE: Canning Wort RE: canning wort ("C and K") The pressure that you saw in the canning jar of wort was caused by an infection of some kind. Maybe yeast, maybe bacteria. If you place hot liquid in a jar and seal the lid, then the pressure will reduce and suck the lid DOWN! if you have a lid that is bulging, then throw it OUT! John In Mississippi - -- Cornelius Ball Lock Kegs for Sale See Web page for details. http://www2.misnet.com/~jliferjr/Kegs/Default.htm Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 09:25:59 -0500 From: Jim Grady <jim_grady at hp.com> Subject: Re: Dekoninck I made a DeKoninck clone last January and it came out fairly well. It was based on a recipe in "Brew Classic European Beers at Home" by Graham Wheeler & Roger Protz; it is published by CAMRA. I highly recommend the book if you want recipes for duplicating different commercial European beers. I also like their book "Brew Your Own Real Ale at Home" for recipes for British ales. Without further ado, here is the recipe for 5.5 gal: Ingredients: 6 lb 13 oz Pils Malt (75% of grist) 2 lb 8 oz Vienna Malt (24% of grist) 1 oz Chocolate Malt (1% of grist) 1.8 oz Saaz Hops ( at 4.0% alpha acid content); 60 min boil time 1 Tbs Irish Moss rehydrated; added last 15 min of boil Wyeast 1388 - Belgian Strong Ale in 2 qt starter O.G. 1.048 F.G. 1.008 Mashing: Use a mash thickness of 1 qt/#. Rest for 30 min at 120 deg. F then bring to 153 deg. F and rest for 60 min. Notes: 1. This recipe assumes an extract efficiency of 29 pt/#/gal. I generally get between 28 & 32 pt/#/gal and usually plan on the conservative side. 2. The recipe called for a step mash - I think just because the grist calls for Pils malt. I have been noticing that for my beers, there is a strong correlation between doing a step mash to get a protein rest in and poor head retention. This batch was no exception. Next time, I think I will do a single infusion mash. BTW, the Pils malt I used was Ireks. 3. I did not do a mash out step which would have given better yields. - -- Jim Grady jim_grady at hp.com Hewlett-Packard Medical Products Group Andover, MA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 09:35:58 -0500 From: Jim Grady <jim_grady at hp.com> Subject: Scale for brewing I recently bought a scale for our kitchen & brewery that I am very pleased with. For a long time I have had a hard time getting a scale that had very fine resolution for weighing hops (without spending LOTS of $$$$). This scale is made by Soehnle and is called the 8035 gala. I got it for $29.95 at the "Home Goods" store in Londonderry, NH. It is a digital scale and will measure up to 5 kg. It as a 2 g. resolution below 2 kg. and 5 g. resolution above. The bowl will hold about 1 kg. of grain. It can sum successive measurements and it can display in lb/oz if you are metric impaired. Their technical data did not contain any accuracy information, only precision. Anyway, it is serving us well in brewing and baking. - -- Jim Grady jim_grady at hp.com Hewlett-Packard Medical Products Group Andover, MA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 08:59:16 -0600 From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu> Subject: CAP and flaked maize Tom Bergman asks about the use of flaked maize in a CAP. Yes, just add it to the mash...that's the beauty of flaked adjuncts...pregelatinized. Jeff Renner will no doubt tell you of the merits of doing a cereal mash with corn grits (I'm sure it is better) but the flaked variety worked well for me. Do you need the 135deg rest? I skipped it in mine and with a long enough lagering time, mine came out quite clear...not crystal clear, but quite clear...YMMV. nathan Nathan in Madison, WI Return to table of contents
Date: 5 Nov 1998 10:01:05 -0500 From: Eric.Fouch at steelcase.com Subject: Sugar is as sugar does HBD- Bill Wible says: > Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 20:25:15 -0400 From: bwible at wanda.vf.pond.com (Bill Wible) Subject: Re:nummy Belgian beers / candi sugar In response to this: Belgian Candi sugars are definitely different from ordinary table/cane sugar, the biggest difference being that Belgian candi sugar is made from beets, while regular table sugar is made from cane. Big difference. > Bill- Do you mean to say there is a big difference between sugar beets and sugar cane, or a big difference between the refined sucrose that is obtained from the beets or sugar? I'll agree thet a tall skinny plant that sticks up out of the ground is different from a short squat plant that grows into the ground, but once the juices have been extracted, recrystallized and refined, sucrose is sucrose. Eric Fouch Bent Dick YoctoBrewery Kentwood, MI Return to table of contents
Date: 5 Nov 1998 07:28:40 -0800 From: MARK.KIRKBY at airborne.com Subject: Brewery Setup Long time listener, first time caller. I started all-grain brewing about 5 months ago. I have been brewing a total of a year now. So as a relative newbie, I hope I am not re-inventing the wheel here. I have been mashing in a Rubbermaid rectangular cooler(48 qt). The rest of the process is, heat the water on the propane cooker, carry hot water to cooler and mash with grains, heat more water, .... Not very efficient on the process or my back. What I intend to do is build a 3 tier in my garage against the wall. However, some questions come to mind: 1. I can only do 5 gal. batches. It seems I can use half height pony kegs(7.5) gal for a HLT and a boiler, and then use the cooler on the middle shelf to mash in. Am I cutting to close on volume/capacity? 2. Most 3 tier system "stair step" their way down to the bottom level. To conserve space, is there any reason why the bottom and top levels(the ones with the kegs on them) can't be under each other. This would leave the width of only 2 tiers yet accomplish the goal. By using 7.5 gal ponies, I figure the height requirements should be much less thus cutting out any stability issue. 3. Has anybody ever mounted an electric heating element in a SS keg? I would like to do this at least for the HLT, possibly the boiler too. Tricks, tips? I would like to use bulkhead fitting and no welding if possible on all fittings. I see where Rick Calley uses these alot with some success. 4. Who the at #$% is Jeff Renner anyway? Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 10:37:51 -0500 From: Andrew Stavrolakis <andrew_stavrolakis at harvard.edu> Subject: 1338 ferment time marc asks about fermentation times for Wyeast 1338 European Ale. Not being able to lager beer, I've used this yeast alot to make ersatz octoberfests, bocks, doppelbocks, as well as alts. I would usually plan on it taking at least 2 weeks to ferment out a wort with an original gravity in the 1.055 to 1.065 range at about 60-65F. Well worth the wait, though. It makes a great malty beer. It's one of my favorite yeasts. - --Andrew. andrew_stavrolakis at harvard.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 08:03:30 -0800 From: "Tomusiak, Mark" <tomusiak at amgen.com> Subject: Re: Brewtek Yeasts Andy asks about good strains from Brewtek. Brewtek has a wide selection of very interesting yeasts, and I am always surprised that I don't see more people using them. I have tried a number of their strains over the past few years, and had good luck with all of them. My "pick of the litter" has to be the Brewtek Saison strain. I brew a lot of Belgian beers, and this yeast has never disappointed me and is unlike anything you can obtain from Wyeast or White Labs. Fermentation with this strain proceeds in a manner I can only refer to as "crazed". It's a very active top fermentor, and just when you think it's finished it has a habit of trying to crawl out of the fermentor again. I have used it with good results in making Belgian pale ales, Biere de Gardes and Saisons, and it seems to tolerate a wide temperature range (no bubble gum esters, either...). Other strains that I have tried and liked are the "Old German Ale" strain (Zum Uerige I suspect, good for alts) and the "British Microbrewery Ale" strain (nice for British milds). Brew on, Mark Tomusiak Boulder, Colorado Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 08:38:43 -0800 From: Jeremy Bergsman <jeremybb at leland.Stanford.EDU> Subject: Belgian corrections > From: bwible at wanda.vf.pond.com (Bill Wible) > In response to this: > Belgian Candi sugars are definitely different from ordinary table/cane sugar, > the biggest difference being that Belgian candi sugar is made from beets, > while regular table sugar is made from cane. Big difference. [snip] > I found you can buy rock candy at some of the candy outlets, and rock candy > is very similar to clear candi sugar. It works well in a trippel, anyway. Well, Belgian candi sugar is sucrose, as is the table sugar sold in the US, whether it is made from cane or beet. One could buy rock candy, but it's just expensive table sugar. Now, if you are making a dubbel and want a darker candi sugar, you have the choice of caramelizing some table sugar yourself, or buying some. As posted a few days ago, doing it yourself and getting the degree of caramelization just right is tricky, so buying the real thing might be the best way to go. > And most Belgian > beers, lambics in particular, also have bacteria intentionally introduced > at some point. Rather than re-culture from the bottle, you're better off > buying yeast. Wyeast has several different Belgian yeasts, and there are > others like White Labs. Well, some of you knew I'd respond to this. *Most* Belgian beers do NOT have bacteria in them. Lambics, as Bill indicates, do (although technically they cannot be introduced intentionally), as do the oud bruins/old browns/flanders browns (Leifmann's/Goudenband, Rodenbach, Ichtegems...). Some other Belgian beers may have "wild" yeast, e.g. Orval will produce mostly Brett if you culture from the bottle. And yet some other beers will be bottled with a non fermentation strain. So, in general, Bill's advice makes sense, especially given how many commercial Belgian strains are available--don't bother bottle culturing. However, Chimay has the fermentation yeast in the bottle, so to the original poster: go for it. Many people have done it successfully, I guess you got an abused bottle. - -- Jeremy Bergsman jeremybb at stanford.edu http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~jeremybb Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 12:12:41 -0500 From: "Bayer, Mark A (Boeing)" <BayerMA at navair.navy.mil> Subject: pressure and temperature collective homebrew conscience: chris wrote: >I have never had a botulism problem. Once, I did notice a substantial >pressure buildup while uncapping a bottle of wort for starter. At the >time, I just attributed it to capping the wort while still hot. i believe this is backward. if you cap a bottle with hot contents, the air in the bottle is warmer than later, when the bottle and its contents have cooled. ideal gas eqn of state is: PV = nRT in this scenario, (to a close engineering approximation), for both states of the gas, the volume doesn't change (if anything, it increases slightly due to contraction of the fluid), n and R also do not change, so the only variables are pressure and temperature, and they should move together, i.e. as temperature goes up, pressure should likewise go up. if the pressure in the bottle went up as the temperature went down, something other than the inanimate phenomena of thermodynamics must be at play. i suspect the answer might lie in the fascinating world of biology. maybe it was really lower pressure inside the bottle and there was some sort of vacuum effect when the cap was removed, like when you open home-canned food (????) were fruit flies involved in some way? btw, one further piece of info regarding the otter creek pale ale that had the colloidal particulate: it was bottled on 8/31/98, which makes it about 2 months old when i got it. at least they put the bottling date on the label. brew hard, mark bayer Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 09:13:08 -0800 From: DaskeF at bcrail.com Subject: Brew Day In Squamish, B.C. Fellow makers of good wort; This is my first post to the HBD. I have recently had the pleasure of participating in the brewing of a pale ale at the Howe Sound Brew Pub, here in Squamish, B.C. - a new experience for me. I thought there might be some interest , in this collective, in this story. The brewer is Nigel Roberts, a fine, enterprising, young man, who has a good understanding of the processes employed at this custom made brewery. He has the ability to describe each step of the procedure and its purpose while the work is being carried out - an ability which I do not posses. (when my hands start working, my mind shuts off; quite dangerous at times). Now for my story... It was a 10 hour day, 'n not much of that was spent sitting around I'll add. At 8:00 I showed up at the Howe Sound Brew Pub Brew House, rubber boots and change of cloths in hand, ready to brew more beer than I've probably drunk in the last 10 years. Approximately 2000 pints, or 1300 hectoliters. The brewer arrived and we set about the task of making wort. A quick tour and some naive questions later and I was on the top floor of the brew house dumping 7, 25 Kilogram bags of Pale Malt and some specialty grain into the grain hopper. The boiler was fired up and the brew kettle was being filled with water. Once the desired temperature was reached it would be sprayed into the cascading grist (sp?) as it fell into the mash tun. We stood there and stirred up the mash for some time, then let it rest. The brew kettle, mash tun, and fermentation vats are all 'jacketed' so that steam can be used to keep a constant temperature. After about 1.5 hours the temperature of the mash was raised about 10 C. (I think from 55 C to 65 C, but am not sure). That would make this a 2 step infusion mash (incorrectly referred to as a decoction (sp?) mash on their brew sheet). The leftover kettle water was pumped into fermentation tank #1 for holding - to be used in the sparge. Following some waiting we began to recirculate the wort - until it ran clear. Then the pump was diverted into the brew kettle and the sparge began. One thing that surprised me was that the sparge arm tended to concentrate the sparge into the centre of the mash. This had the negative effect of making a hole in the centre of the mash and we had to keep stirring mash to compensate. Considering all the work that went into building this wonderful equipment (all custom built in Summerland B.C.) it is weird that this was overlooked. When the kettle was 'full' (actually, it is a 2000 hectoliter kettle but the beer holding tank only hold about 1250 hectoliters so we raised the level to about 1400 HL to allow for evaporation) the temperature was raised to boiling and the hops were added. While the wort was 'cooking' I got the dubious pleasure of cleaning the mash tun. The grist (sp?) was shoveled into plastic pails, to be picked up later by a farmer who feeds this to his animals (still contains about 20% protein). The brewer lifted the false bottom and cleaned under there. Some time later we prepared to move the wort into the fermentation tank. More diverting of pump input and output - fresh cold water would be pumped through the counterflow chiller and then diverted back into the mash tun - the water is quite warm and can be used of cleaning. The wort would be diverted through the counter flow chiller and into the fermentation tank. While all this was going on I got to help prepare a barrow of beer for Halloween - spices, pumpkin, and yeast. The yeast 'lives' in old honey tubs in the cooler, covered in wort. They will use 2 or 3 liters of yeast from the last batch of similar style brew and harvest some of the 14 liters that is generated after fermentation. I took about 3 table spoons, mixed it with some wort and added it into the barrow. When the fermentation tank was full I added the rest of the yeast, mixed with some wort, to the brew - what fun! The most difficult part of the entire exercise was cleaning the brew kettle. It was still quite warm and one has to climb into this monster to scoop out the mess on the bottom - mostly spent hops, and scrub the insides and intop (word?). What a mess - I was covered in wort leavings (doesn't sound nice) and was soaked. Glad I brought that change of clothing. It was a long day, and I hurt for quite a while. For my trouble.. I am permitted to come in and get some yeast whenever I need it and... I will be allowed to crush my grain in their mill. Not bad for a days work. A memorable, and unusual experience - highly recommended. regards, Felix Daske Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:20:44 -0700 From: "Brian Rezac" <brian at aob.org> Subject: Re: Oregon Brew Crew Marc, JPullum127 at aol.com, wrote: > I am still looking for a connection with a homebrew club called the oregon > brew crew with an objective of getting some pointers to cloning their >wonderfull collaborator milk stout.any help would be really appreciated thanks >again Marc, Here is the information on the Oregon Brew Crew as it appears on the AHA's Registered Homebrew Clubs list. This listing can be found at http://beertown.org. As for the Oregon Brew Crew, they're an great group of homebrewers currently led by Bob McCracken (an excellent organizer and homebrewer in his own right.) Here's the information: Oregon Brew Crew 72714.3316 at compuserve.com (also bobm at patlbr.com) Phone: 503.235.8732 4239 NE Flanders Portland, OR 97213 PS - I have had the Collaborator Milk Stout and I agree, it is wonderful! I also think that Widmer's collaboration with the Oregon Brew Crew is probably the best example of commercial breweries working with homebrew clubs. I hope it continues to be a success. Brian Rezac Administrator American Homebrewers Association 736 Pearl Street, Boulder, CO 80302 303 447-0816, ext. 121 brian at aob.org http://beertown.org Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 09:34:48 -0600 From: Brett Gober <bgober at mail.socket.net> Subject: Re: Yeast Update >I don't believe this is true. Widmer has been very proud of using >their Alt strain and keeping it in the bottle. I've cultured from the >Widmer Hefeweizen bottle, and used it in several brews all with great >results. Things may have changed in the last few months with Widmer, >but I'm doubtful. I think Jeremy just had a culturing glitch of some >type. It happens. I'd suggest trying again, or using the WhiteLabs >American Hefeweizen strain. > > -SM- This goes back a couple of years, so they may have changed but I doubt it. According to Kurt Widmer, they DO add a different yeast to their Hefe. There may some fermentation yeast present that could be cultured, but the bulk of the yeast is a non-flocculating strain that is not a very good fermenter. I can't speak to their Alt strain or their Alt beer, as it was not bottled at the time and was only available on tap at a few places in town. If you are talking about yeast in their Alt, I wouldn't doubt that it is the fermentation strain. Brett Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 13:04 -0800 From: "George De Piro" <George_De_Piro at berlex.com> Subject: Malt question Hi all, Has anybody out there in HBD land ever used Thomas Fawcett (TF) malts? TF is (as far as I know) a family owned maltster in Castleford, England. They have pale ale malts available that are produced from Maris Otter, Halcyon, and Pipkin barleys, as well as wheat and oat malts (and a full line of high-kilned stuff). If you have used it, what kind of malt did you use and what kind of characteristics did it impart to the beer that made it unique? Has anybody used malts from Malteries Franco-Belge? Again, what did you find special (or not so special) about it? Thanks in advance, have fun! George de Piro (Nyack, NY) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 12:38:00 -0600 From: "DARMARHAD" <darmarhad at email.msn.com> Subject: Electric Stove I just started brewing two months ago, so I am really new to this hobby. My question is: I brew my wort on top of an electric stove. I think I need a heat ring or a fire ring. I would appreciate any and all input. Where can one acquire a Fire ring. Thanks, Darrell DARMARHAD at msn.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 13:39 -0800 From: "George De Piro" <George_De_Piro at berlex.com> Subject: Harvesting yeast from bottled beers / Infected Belgian beers Hi all, There has been chat about the best way to harvest yeast from bottles of commercial beer, particularly Chimay (red, I think). There are several things to keep in mind when undertaking such an endeavor. A proper understanding of what is going on will shed light on the logic of these procedures: A lot (most) of the yeast in a bottle of Chimay is dead (bless their souls). What is alive is likely to be in really poor condition. It is your job to take these helpless, weak organisms and nurse them back to health. You do not want to use "normal" gravity wort for reviving the yeast because it is stressful to the yeast to be put into a very high-sugar environment. While you may succeed in reviving some yeast with normal gravity wort, you will likely fail on many occasions. You do not want to use more than a few mL of wort to revive the yeast. Adding a large amount of wort (>5-10 mL) has the same consequences as underpitching a batch of beer: long lag times and greatly increased risk of infection (because there is an ocean of nutritious wort and little yeast activity to keep invaders at bay). The best, most consistent results will be had by either plating the yeast out on agar or pitching the bottle dregs into 5-10 mL of wort at about 7 P (1.028). Be VERY careful about sanitation at this early stage. Any small contamination will grow along with the yeast and can become a sizable population by the time you are ready to pitch your batch. I would NOT open the bottle, decant the beer, cover it with foil and put it back into the fridge!!! That is like sending an engraved invitation to unwanted bugs. I have had good results yeast harvesting by simply pouring the dregs of bottle-conditioned beer into 20 mL vials that contain 5 mL of previously prepared sterile wort (I pressure cook dozens of vials at a time, thus giving myself about 6-months worth in a single 1 hour session). These vials are also great for growing yeast from agar slants/plates. It is best to shake the vial to aerate the media and incubate it at 30C (86F). The yeast will usually show signs of life within a day. Be careful when opening the vial; there can be a substantial release of pressure. --------------------------- Bill W. states, "And most Belgian beers, lambics in particular, also have bacteria intentionally introduced at some point. Rather than re-culture from the bottle, you're better off buying yeast." This is not true. It is a sad and tenacious myth that most Belgian beer is purposely infected. This misunderstanding is illustrated at homebrew contests where there are invariably beers in the Belgian categories that seem to be accidentally infected attempts at non-Belgian styles ("American Oud Bruin," "Raspberry Wheat Disaster Framboise," and such). The majority of Belgian beers are brewed under fairly normal conditions, with control over the microbial make-up of the beer. Belgian does not equal infected or bacterial ridden. On the other hand, Bill does make an interesting point: he says that it may be better to buy the yeasts from commercial banks because of the bacteria added by the brewers. While most brewers do not intentionally add bacteria (as I said above), many small breweries have antiquated packaging equipment that may invite some unwanted contamination. This is true for small breweries everywhere, not just Belgium. It is important to keep in mind that the yeast you grow may not be pure, for completely accidental reasons. Carefully evaluate the starter or do a smaller test batch with any new "harvested" yeast before committing a large amount of effort to it. Better yet, plate the yeast on differential media to check for contamination. Have fun! George de Piro (Nyack, NY) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 13:53:34 -0500 From: "Marc Battreall" <batman at terranova.net> Subject: Carbonating Stone Use Hello All, I have one of those stainless steel carbonating stones and was wondering if anyone has come up with a easy and proven method for using this thing as an means of artificially carbonating a Corny Keg? I have used it exclusively for aerating my wort and starters and would like to give it a whirl to carbonate with. I inquired to the place I bought it from a while back and he said simply attach it to the internal down tube of the CO2 inlet inside the keg and slowly increase the gas flow to about 25-30 psi. This is of course after cooling the beer down to 42F or below. Sounds simple enough but I ran a test the other day using water and the plastic tubing that I had used to attach the stone to the CO2 tube inside blew off at around 15 psi even though it was a snug fit. Not only that, it required alot of "mucking around" to get the thing connected and I certainly wouldn't want to try that with beer for sure, sanitized gear or not. I have had good success with other methods of carbonating like simply rocking or shaking a cold keg with the gas connected and priming the keg the "old fashioned" way with dextrose and waiting for a week or so. I would like to give this carbonating stone a whirl though to see if it provides better or more rapid artificial carbonation. Thanks in advance. Marc ======================= Captain Marc Battreall Backcountry Brewhouse Islamorada, Florida batman at terranova.net captainbrew at hotmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 11:23:21 PST From: "Mark Prior" <priorm at hotmail.com> Subject: Winey Characteristics in Kolsch Has anyone had any luck brewing a Kolsch with winey characteristics? If so, what yeast did you use? What temperature did you ferment at? Thanks, Mark Prior priorm at hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 98 14:41:14 -0500 From: Ken Houtz <kenhoutz at nut-n-but.net> Subject: Yeast Cleaning & BrewTek Slants - -- [ From: Ken Houtz * EMC.Ver #3.0 ] -- Date: Thursday, 05-Nov-98 01:32 PM From: Ken Houtz \ Internet: (kenhoutz at nut-n-but.net) To: Posts to Homebrew Digest \ Internet: (post@hbd.org) Subject: Yeast Cleaning & BrewTek Slants > Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:41:03 -0500 > From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com> > Subject: yeast culturing and crystal malt vs. unfermentables > > To all that culture yeast from carboy bottoms: > > I'm using the method of culturing yeasties from primary fermentation > carboy bottoms sludge recommended by Wyeast and was having trouble > deciding when to pour off the "suspended" yeast from the sludge (hops, > tiny grain pieces, etc). does the trub appear to be courser particles > than the fine yeast? or is it better just to pitch the whole lot of > stuff from a practical standpoint. I am just trying to pitch a decent > count of yeast since I am having trouble reaching high conversion when > just pitching from the packet or a single starter. My OG tend to be > about 1.050-1.060 and it seems I never get much below 1.020 or 1.018 > which are about 10% below the supposed attenuation of London Ale 2 > yeasts from Wyeast. > > Also, I seem to remember a relation between L (crystal malt color) and > percentage unfermentable sugars. is it high L, high unferementables, or > the other way around? > > Thanks all. Private replies are ok. > > Pete Czerpak > pete.czerpak at siigroup.com Pete, I made a start at trying the Wyeast method but didn't do the whole thing and what I get as yeast seems pretty clean. Here is what I do FWIW: After racking to secondary I carefully dump the remaining wort making sure all of the crud (trub ?) stays on one side of the carboy. Then I carefully pour in about 750 cc of sterile distilled water not letting it touch the sides or inside of the neck. I swirl it to slurry up the yeast and then slowly pour it back into the 1000 cc Erlenmeyer from whence the sterile water had come. I cover it with Al foil that I have previously doused with rubbing alcohol and set it back in my fermentation chest (chest freezer w/ Ferm Temp) set at 66 F until the new batch is ready to pitch (usually within an hour. I've gone 4 generation this way without trouble. Note that this is all times two carboys as I do 10 gal. I arbitrarily dump the stuff after that and start with a fresh specimen from my mini slant in Super Starter and step that up to about 1500 to 1800 cc for the next (10 gal.) batch Hope this helps. Ken Houtz > > Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:26:07 -0600 > From: Andrew Ager <andrew-ager at nwu.edu> > Subject: Yeasts from Brewer's Resource? > > Greetings, > > Two days ago, I received a late birthday gift from my future father-in-law : > a complete yeast culturing kit from Brewer's Resource! I just need to pick > 6 strains... > > So, any advice on good strains from these guys? I don't see any lagers in > my fermentors any time soon, as I don't have adequate temp. control. > > Thanks! > > Andy Ager Beer Geek, Beer Judge > Chicago, IL Homebrewer Ordinaire > - --Chicago Beer Society -- Silver Medal Homebrew Club of the Year, 1998 - - Andy, I've been using the BrewTek method for a year now and find I like their CL- 170 best of those that I have tried. It starts very quickly in the Super Wort. 36 to 48 hours and it is definitely ready to step up. See my post to Pete above. They describe this one as an English pub draft type good for Bitters and Brown ales. I agree. I make a combination using 6 lb. of their British Pale DME + 3 lb. of their Big Red DME with 2 oz. Columbus pellets for the last 45 min of boil and then a quarter ounce in each secondary carboy at or shortly after racking. It gets some smiles. I've also tried their CL-160 and CL-150 and they are OK but I prefer the 170 Ken Houtz Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 13:38:30 -0800 From: "Bryan L. Gros" <gros at bigfoot.com> Subject: Competition Announcement I'm pleased to announce the 13th Annual National Bay Area Brew Off, on Feb. 6, 1999 in Dublin, CA. Entries will be accepted from Jan. 11-Jan. 23 at Hoptech Homebrew Supplies (www.hoptech.com) in Pleasanton. (3015 Hopyard Rd, Ste E, Pleasanton CA 94588) Prizes are awarded in each of these eight categories: Pale American Ales (includes Amer. Pale Ale, Amer. Amber Ale) Pale English Ales (Bitter, Special Bitter, ESB, and IPA) Dark Lagers (Maibock, trad. bock, doppelbock, vienna, marzen, dunkel, schwartz) Porters (brown and robust) Stouts (dry, foreign, sweet, oatmeal) Barleywine & wheatwine Christmas beers Mead Entries consist of 2 bottles and $6 per entry. Only one entry per style please. Attach a label to each bottle with your name, address, phone number, club affiliation, category, style, and any special ingredients used. For mead, specify still or sparkling and metheglin, traditional, pyment, cyser, or melomel as necessary. All are welcome to celebrate at Hooligans California AleHouse and Grill and to pick up your scoresheets (7294 San Ramon Rd., Dublin CA) Judge or steward volunteers please contact Bryan Gros (gros at bigfoot.com) via email or at 510-601-6780. Bryan Gros gros at bigfoot.com Oakland, CA Organizer, 1999 National Bay Area Brew Off http://www.dnai.com/~thor/dboard/babo99.htm Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 17:38:41 -0500 From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com> Subject: RE: Pumps and Plumbing Wayne (WayneM38 at aol.com) relates that he uses quick disconnects, norprene high temp hose and braided (I assume again high temp hose). First I'd like to ask him to post the specifics of these quick disconnects (where he got them, how much they cost, etc.). Second, I'll also offer a cheap alternative. Maybe not as good, but it works very well. I use 1/2" ID thick walled tubing I bought at the True Value hardware store. Very inexpensive. It is food grade and clear but I don't know what the temperature rating is. But as it turns out in practice I pump boiling hot liquids without any problems, either structural or flavor related. Instead of quick disconnects, I use brass garden hose to hose barb swivel fittings, also cheap. So on the outlet of my Gott mash/lauter tun, H/L tank, and the inlet to my mash/lauter tun for recirculating wort, I use standard brass garden hose to 1/2" NPT fittings. I don't have these fittings on my pump inlet or the RIMS heater outlet, but rather the tubing is clamped in place. By simply unscrewing the garden hose connector on the pump's inlet tube I can pump H/L to clean, sanitize or fill the mash/lauter tun, hot wort from the mash/tun, or even hot wort from the kettle (although I don't do that at this time). The outlet of the RIMS can be switched from the inlet to the mash/lauter tun or to waste water or back to the H/L tank for recirculating boiling water to clean/sanitize the tubing, pump housing and RIMS heater. This is all pretty cheap and works well in practice. Everything is available at local hardware stores. But the quick disconnects seems cool so I'd like to know where to get them and specifically which they are. Dave Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:23:02 +1030 (CDT) From: Ian Lyons <ilyons at science.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: More malting questions Most of you won't know that when malted grain gets to you it has had the tufty rootlets removed! Question is: why is it removed? (my guess is that they contain lots of (irrelevant) proteins and little starch). And what is the technical term for tufty rootlets. For the interest of those who have helped me along the path of maltsters righteousness, some feed grade wheat and barley has been germinated, probably too hot (20oC) to about half acrospire length in three days, and then has been drying outside. Got rained on a little, but today is sunny and dry, and a slight wind: I have hope still. Ian Return to table of contents
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