HOMEBREW Digest #287 Thu 26 October 1989

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		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  Homebrew Digest #286 (October 25, 1989)  Champagne Yeast? (Wayne Allen)
  Coffee Stout, Specific Gravity (Tom Hotchkiss)
  Blowoff Turns to Blowout (willa)
  Single vs. double fermentation (bellcore.bellcore.com!hera!afd)
  Much appreciated (Mike Kahn)
  Tragedy and Bitter/pale Ale (Patrick Stirling [Sun Consulting Services Mtn View])
  What's a pale al (florianb)
  Re: Glue for label (mmcintos)
  Oxidation, Gelatin, et al. (Dave Sheehy)
  The ``Golden Beer'' State: Part 3: Central California (David L. Kensiski )
  shook beer (JEEPSRUS)
  test of route (Robert Hilchey)
  its the water (Richard Hager)
  test of our link (Robert Hilchey)
  Syrups versus Dry Extracts (Mike Fertsch)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Oct 89 10:04:37 CDT From: wa%cadillac.cad.mcc.com at mcc.com (Wayne Allen) Subject: Homebrew Digest #286 (October 25, 1989) Champagne Yeast? watson at ames.arc.nasa.gov (John Watson) writes: >2) For yesterdays barley wine I used champagne yeast. > How will this effect the final flavor of the beer? I don't know about using champagne yeast exclusively, but I have made barley wine (similar to John's recipe) using ale yeast in the primary fermentation, and then pitching champagne yeast after some clearing. This DEFINITELY works! _ W | Wayne Allen, wa at mcc.com | I really really really really really really really like girls!!!! | Oh yeah I really really really really really really really | like girls!!! I like'm tall!! I like'm small!! I like'm | AAAAAAALLLLLLLL!!!!!! - Hank Williams, Jr. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 89 9:07:08 MDT From: Tom Hotchkiss <trh at hpestrh> Subject: Coffee Stout, Specific Gravity A. Coffee Stout To the person who made the stout with the coffee in it, I intend to fire up a batch of "Colorado Crankcase Stout" this weekend and I was wondering two things: 1) How much coffee did you use and am I correct that you added it to the ferment, not the boil? (I can't seem to find the digest where this was explained.) 2) Have you tasted the stout yet and would you alter the amount of coffee that you used? B. Miscellaneous responses to John S. Watson: 1) Your carboy tragedy- Use a two stage ferment. Put the wort in a sanitized 7 gallon plastic bucket for the first day or two (until the head falls). Then siphon it into the carboy. This prevents your disaster and gets the beer off the trub and dead yeast. If you're real worried about the hop oils and stuff not blowing off, you can use a sanitized strainer to skim the head off. 2) Low specific gravity. I think the expected SG values are at 60 degrees, but that shouldn't make much difference. The only other thing I can think of is that you're not getting a good sample, i.e. if you add water to the wort to bring the volume up to 5 gallons, are you sure that it is mixed thouroughly before you take your sample? Perhaps the sample is taken from a thinner part of the wort. I can't possibly imagine that 12 lbs extract and 2 lbs honey in 5 gallons only yielded 1.056! Tom Hotchkiss trh at hpfcla Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 89 08:27:52 PDT From: willa at hpvclwa Subject: Blowoff Turns to Blowout John: What diameter discharge tube do you use? I've seen lots of folks use a small (~0.25 inch) tube plugged into a stopper with a hole in it. I use a large plastic tube. Its outside tube diameter matches the inside diameter of the carboy opening. So, my blowout tube has an inside diameter of about 1 inch. I doubt even a barley wine could clog up such a large tube. . . .Will ...!hplabs!hpvcfs1!willa or willa at hpvcfs1.hp.com Return to table of contents
Date: 25 Oct 1989 8:35 EDT From: rutgers!bellcore.bellcore.com!hera!afd at hplabs.HP.COM Subject: Single vs. double fermentation I see a note now and then on secondary fermenters. I've brewed three batches now using a single fermentation process and quite honestly, they've all turned out alright. What advantages are gained by secondary fermentation? -A Dietz Bellcore, Morristown bellcore!hera!afd Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 89 08:48:36 PDT From: Mike Kahn <mike at stat.washington.edu> Subject: Much appreciated Thanks to Al and Martin for their simple answers to three of my simple q questions. I'm still a bit confused as to the difference between pale and bitter, but not as confused as before. The remaining confusion comes when I think that at my favorite pub, the pales are kegged and seem to have a "hoppier" taste than any of the bitters, which could, of course, simply be the way a couple of the local microbrewers make their ales. I will try to look at descriptions from the Homebrew Competitions. Thanks again. I still haven't seen any comments about the use of spices when making a seasonal ale. Any help? MK Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 89 09:03:39 PDT From: pms at Sun.COM (Patrick Stirling [Sun Consulting Services Mtn View]) Subject: Tragedy and Bitter/pale Ale I always use a plastic bin for ther primary fermentation. I don't want to run the risk of the blowoff tube clogging. I just use a loose fitting lid and stand the bin in a towel. The worst I've had is foam pouring out over the sides! I think that's a lot safer than using a carboy. Then after a couple of day when the initial activity dies down I rack into a carboy, leaving a couple of inches of gunk behind. By bottling (another couple of weeks) there usually an inch of so of sediment in the carboy. Rack back to the bin, prime and bottle, and wait (impatiently!). This way I get very little sediment in the bottle, with careful decanting I leave only about a teaspoonful of beer behind. About this Bitter - Pale Ale controversy. I disagree that they're the same! Using that argument, all beers are the same, it's just the ingredients that are different! You can get both Bitter and Pale Ales in kegs, bottles and cans in Britain (speaking as a pompous native). Pale Ale is pale, Bitter is dark(er). Pale Ale is also higher in alcohol than bitter, and has more hops. Think of the difference between Sierra Nevada Pale Ale (a favourite of mine!) or Anchor Liberty Ale, and Fuller's London Pride or John Courage. Of course, neither of these export versions are remotely like what you can get on tap in Britain! If you ever visit Britain, I'd strongly recommend a visit to a reputable tavern and a pint (or even several) of their finest - Wadworth's 6X is my personal favourite, although John Courage Director's, Fuller's London Pride (the real thing), and many others are almost equally excellent! Hand drawn from a wooden (unpressurized) keg with a vacuum pump of course! Well I've probably bored you enough by now patrick Return to table of contents
Date: 25 Oct 89 08:43:33 PDT (Wed) From: florianb at tekred.cna.tek.com Subject: What's a pale al This regards the recent discussion of pale ales vs. bitters. Somewhere in the dark recesses of my memory, I recall reading (or hearing or dreaming) that pale ale originated in a region of Ireland called "Pale," and didn't necessarily refer to ales which were lighter in body or flavor or color. Now, I can't recall where I came up with this tidbit. Has anyone else any information on this? Did I dream it up after drinking too much pale ale? Maybe my fourth grade teacher said it, right after she told me that the reason it's colder in winter is because the earth is farther away from the sun. Which is true if you live in the southern hemisphere... [Florian Bell, thinking about the ingredients for Holiday Ale as I try to work] Return to table of contents
Date: 25 Oct 89 9:06 -0700 From: mmcintos at sirius.UVic.ca Subject: Re: Glue for label In HOMEBREW Digest #286, 10/25/89: >From: felix at Warbucks.AI.SRI.COM (Francois Felix INGRAND) > >What kind of glue do you use to put label on your bottles? We use those cylindrical glue sticks. They make the labels stay on reliably and also seem to be water soluble, making cleaning the bottles easier. They are easy to use, too. Mark J. McIntosh <mmcintos at sirius.uvic.ca> _______________________________________________________________________________ University of Victoria, Faculty of Engineering Box 1700, Victoria, BC, CANADA \ "...the mystery of life isn't a problem to V8W 2Y2 (604) 721-7211 \ solve but a reality to experience." UUCP: ...!{uw-beaver,ubc-vision}!uvicctr!sirius!mmcintos \ from Dune Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 89 10:56:15 PDT From: Dave Sheehy <dbs at hprnd> Subject: Oxidation, Gelatin, et al. Full-Name: Dave Sheehy Oxidation ========= >>From: Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!mal at hplabs.HP.COM> >>Subject: Trub Management >> >> eight-year-old asked, "why don't you just use >> your lauter tun?" My jaw dropped. Since the >> wort is already cool, oxidation is not a problem. > >The reason that oxidation is not a problem is not because the >wort is cool, rather because before yeast goes into its fermentation >stage of life, it goes through a respiration stage during which it >NEEDS oxygen. Boiling drives off oxygen (and all other dissolved >gasses, for that matter) so that you need to aerate your wort before >pitching your yeast. After fermentation begins, you then need to >be careful to not introduce oxygen. > >Al. Whoa! Wait a minute here. According to Miller oxidation is a problem with hot wort. Yes, you want to oxygenate the wort before it's pitched but only after it's been cooled so that oxidation is not a problem. In fact, that's one of the reason's for using a wort chiller (as well as getting a good cold break). If the wort is allowed to cool slowly then it will subject to more oxidation according to Miller. I suspect that's an unstated reason for doing partial boils when extract brewing. Adding cool water to the boiling wort to bring it up to volume also lowers the temperature of the wort enough to limit oxidation. I unwittingly experimented with this when I did a full boil of an extract recipe that I've made many times before. I don't have a wort chiller but I did place the fermenter in a bath of cool water. Still, it took several hours to cool down. The resulting beer was ok but the flavor just wasn't as good as it has been in the past. According to Miller, it should have turned out better. The only difference between the two batches is that the partial boil was added to cool water in the fermenter. Has anybody else had this kind of experience? If you've had any experiences with oxidation how much did they affect the flavor of the beer? My experience is that it's a second order effect. The flavor is definitely affected but not in a major way (i.e. the beer was undrinkable). While we're on the subject of oxidation, I'd like to discuss Miller's contention that the typical 1 - 2" headspace in a bottle of beer has enough oxygen present to cause significant oxidation. Miller recommends using a 1/8" headspace to prevent this. I'm not sure I believe him or not. I remember some discussion a few months ago about headspace. Has anybody experimented with a smaller headspace and if so did you notice any differences one way or the other? Gelatin and extended fermentation ================================= >I have a question posed by a fellow homebrewer who doesn't have >access. He had a batch that brewed in the cellar for some time (I >can't remember how long) when he thought fermentation had slowed enough >he brought it upstairs and put some jelatin (sp?, to clear it up) in >it. After he did that it continued bubling for the next few weeks and >he's wondering if the yeast could be acting on the jelatin or if it >might be dangerous to drink the beer now. Any info? You know, I've had this happen to me just about every single time I've brewed. I've waited until there has been no activity in the primary whatsoever but sure enough, when I rack to the secondary and add gelatin I start getting fresh activity a few days later. I don't think the gelatin has anything to do with this rather the mere act of agitating the wort rekindles the yeast into activity. I've gotten into the habit of turning my fermentor around in a circle to stir up the settled yeast and this seems to produce fresh activity but I still get additional activity in the secondary. The beer has always turned out so I don't worry about it anymore, I just deal with it. Wort Foaming During Bottling ============================ The last batch of beer I bottled foamed (or fizzed if you will) while I was bottling it. It did this so much that I had trouble maintaining the sipon in my transfer tubing. If I stopped for any amount of time a big bubble would form in the tubing and I'd have to purge it. Anybody have any theories why this happened. I swear it had fermented out, it fermented normally in the primary for about a week and sat in the secondary for another week, week and a half. In the secondary, it showed little activity. Boy, but when I bottled it it foamed like mad. After several weeks of bottle conditioning it tastes fine. It forms a large head but it's very coarse and doesn't last long. Any clues as to what's happening. Wort Chilling ============= I just tried chilling a batch by immersing a 1 gallon milk jug filled with water and frozen solid into the boiler. Boy, what a difference. It really enhanced the effect of the finishing hops. By cooling down the wort immediately the aroma and flavor of the finishing hops were retained more than before. An immersion chiller is going on my wish list. Dave Sheehy dbs at hprnd.hp.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 89 14:02:19 PDT From: david%cygnus. at Sun.COM (David L. Kensiski ) Subject: The ``Golden Beer'' State: Part 3: Central California The ``Golden Beer'' State A Guide To California's Beer Hot Spots Central California Atascadero S Stagecoach Liquors 5145 El Camino Real Boulder Creek P White Cockade 18025 Highway 9 Cayucos P,R The Way Station 78 North Ocean Ceres H Barley & Wine Home Fermentation Supply 1907 Central Avenue Fresno B Butterfield 777 East Olive, 93728 (209) 264-5521 P Good Bodys 2915 North Maroa Avenue Hollister B San Andreas 737 San Benito, 95023 (408) 637-7074 Los Gatos S Pacific Wine & Spirits 410 North Santa Cruz Los Osos H U-BRU 1940 10th Street, Suite A Mammoth Lakes B Mammoth Lakes 170 Mountain Blvd, 93546 (619) 934-8134 Modesto M Stanislaus (209) 523-2262 brewpub opening late '89 Monterey B Monterey 638 Wave Street, 93940 (408) 375-3634 Morgan Hill H Let's Brew 16965 Monterey Road Paso Robles M Paso Robles (805) 239-4221 Salinas P Time Out 328 South Main Street San Luis Obispo B SLO Brewing 1119 Garden Street, 93401 (805) 544-3292 M Central Coast Brewing Company (805) 541-59883 M Obispo Brewing Company (805) 543-0487 opening late '89 P,R Spikes 570 Hiquera Street P,R Rose & Crown 1000 Hiquera S,R Sandy's Liquor Hiquera/Nipomo Street S,H Win St. Wines 1027 March Street Santa Cruz B Santa Cruz 516 Front Street, 95060 (408) 429-8838 B Seabright 519 Seabright, 95062 (408) 462-2739 Legend M Microbrewery or Brewery B Brewpub or Brewstaurant C Contract Brewery P Pub R Restaurant or Deli S Retail Sotre H Homebrew Shop Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 89 09:51 PDT From: JEEPSRUS <ROBERTN%FM1 at sc.intel.com> Subject: shook beer With the recent earthquake in San Fransisco and Santa Cruz, I was wondering if anyone knows what affect this would have on homebrew? I live in Sacramento, and we got shook just a little bit, but the bay area got hit pretty hard! What happens to the fermentation when it is violently shaken? Does it just take longer for it to settle, or will kicking up the various deposits from the bottom of the fermenter affect the beer? When the bottles are shaken, are there any affects? Pressure buildup may burst the bottles, but does anything else happen? Thanx in advance, and happy brewing :-) RobertN. robertn%fm1 at sc.intel.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 89 16:35:47 -0700 From: hilchy at sdsu.edu (Robert Hilchey) Subject: test of route this is a test Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 89 17:10:27 -0700 From: rhager at sdsu.edu (Richard Hager) Subject: its the water I believe the article in the San Diego edition of the L.A. Times quoting the brewmaster at the Old Columbia has been misinterpreted by Dave Smith. The brewmaster said that water with mineral content makes the best beer (I don't recall the exact wording). I believe he was refering to hard vs soft. He was also quoted as saying that they must process the water. Again I don't recall whether he actually used the word filter or not so I'm simply indicating that he said process. The article seemed to be very superficial no doubt written by a reporter with marginal knowledge on beer. It strikes me that the content of the brewmaster's quote might have been "processed" by the reporter. I have never been very successful brewing with San Diego water. It is very difficult controlling the ph during the mash. The single biggest improvement in my beer came when I started hauling water to town from my house in the mountains a couple of years ago. Problems are compounded because the quality and mineral content of the San Diego water are not even constant through the year. It can get marginally good when the amount coming from the Colorado river is sufficiently low. Unlike Los Angeles which gets much of its water from the Owens valley east of the Sierra we rely on everybody else's rejects. There are places where it is worse e.g. Santa Barbara. As long as I'm writing this I guess I'll get my two cents in about the Old Columbia. It is the only brewpub here in San Diego and has been open since last February. It has a resonable atmosphere but unfortunately caters to a yuppie clientele. There are numerous pre-pro photo blowups on the wall of old San Diego scenes including the crew at the old San Diego Brewery which went under when prohibition came and a marvelous shot of the old City Brewery building from the 1880's which was located at 5th and B. Unfortunately, the beer quality has been compromised. There are too many waitresses and too little malt and hops. The beer was excellant for a few weeks shortly after opening but has never been better than C+/B- after that. It seems to me that much of Southern California's craft beer tends to a sort of bland middle of the road and much of it is priced too high. Hopefully when San Diego's second brewpub is opened (within a few months) we can boast of a truly first rate brewpub. It is the Old Mission which is to be housed in the same building as the original Old Mission Brewery which was in existense from 1912-1916. The building is being restored to its original form. This required approval from the San Diego voters last November as the original cupola had been removed and a coastal height limitation prevented it from being added back. Richard Hager Dept of Mathematical Sciences San Diego State University Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 89 16:24:12 -0700 From: hilchy at sdsu.edu (Robert Hilchey) Subject: test of our link Just a test Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 89 11:43 EDT From: Mike Fertsch <gatech!adc1.mec.ray.com!FERTSCH> Subject: Syrups versus Dry Extracts Mike Kahn <mike at stat.washington.edu> has Some (hopefully) simple questions: > What is malt extract? For example, is light, unhopped malt extract simply > concentrated light, dry malt? If not, what is different? If so, is there > some approximate conversion? (Say, 3.3# of extract is approx. ???# of dry > malt.) Dry malt extract is malt syrup without the water. Pound for pound dry malt extract has more 'stuff' than the syrup. Extract numbers I've read are 36 specific gravity points per pound per gallon for syrups, and 42 points for dry extracts. If a recipe calls for 1 pound of syrup, you can substitute 0.85 pounds (0.85 = 36/42). Dry extract is easier to measure and handle, so dry is my perference for situations which call for non-integer cans of syrup. Mike Fertsch Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #287, 10/26/89 ************************************* -------
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