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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  7 oz bottles (Marc Hering)
  Yeast starter and aeration ("Fred L. Johnson")
  Ommegang yeast/ cleaning/ fruit flies/ metallic beer ("George De Piro")
  RIMS ramp time ("RZUK")
  CAP ("RZUK")
  mills etc (Jim Liddil)


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Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 03:14:51 -0500
From: Marc Hering <mhering at acd-pc.com>
Subject: 7 oz bottles

Regarding the Person seeking out 7 oz bottles, I know that this probably is
Blasphemous, but if I remember correctly Scudwiser makes 7 oz "Nips" that I
believe may be useful, the only thing that I do not remember is wheather
they were twist off or not,,hopefully not  ;)

Marc




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Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 08:17:14 -0500
From: "Fred L. Johnson" <FLJohnson at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Yeast starter and aeration

To the starter experts out there:

I would like to refine my starter culture process to improve pitching
rates with minimal hassle.  Here are my thoughts for your critique.

My goal is to have as much yeast as possible in a 3 liter wine bottle for
a 5 gallon batch.  I typically start with yeast that have been cultured
from 2 liters of uhhopped starter that has fermented out and then stored
in the refrigerator in 12-16 ounce beer bottles.   For a 5 gallon batch,
the supernatant is decanted off one of these stored bottles and the yeast
is pitched into approximately 2 liters of fresh wort in a 3 liter wine
bottle.  This has worked pretty well but I would like to push this a
little further as follows.

I  intend to aerate this 2 liter starter intermittently  for several hours
using an aquarium pump and a 0.45 micron filter to prevent contamination.
(Suggestions are welcome for how long to aerate.)  Is this starter certain
to become contaminated?  After the starter has fermented out and the yeast
have settled, I will decant the supernatant and pitch the slurry or give
the slurry a little fresh starter a few hours before pitching.

The assumption here is that extra aeration will promote additional
growth.  Comments please!  Also, should the gravity or composition of the
starter wort be adjusted to accomodate more yeast growth.  Remember the
goal is not to make drinkable beer here but to produce a bunch of happy
yeast.

Also, assuming that the above method improves yeast growth, I am certain
that I am going to have some difficulty determining if the starter is
contaminated or not.  I usually taste the starter supernatant for off
flavors before pitching.  I don't think I will be able to tell the
difference between the inevitable off flavors produced by the high yeast
growth and off flavors produced by a mild contamination, so that I will
need a way of determining if the culture is pitchable or not.  (If the
contamination is severe, I'm pretty sure I'll know it.)  Suggestions
please!
- --
Fred L. Johnson
Apex, North Carolina
USA





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Date: Fri, 25 Dec 98 08:47:32 PST
From: "George De Piro" <gdepiro at fcc.net>
Subject: Ommegang yeast/ cleaning/ fruit flies/ metallic beer

Hi all, and Merry Christmas,

Joe asks if anyone has had success culturing yeast from bottles of 
Ommegang's
Hennepin ale.  Yes, it can be done.  When the beer was first released 
back during
the summer I had no trouble getting fast growth.  I think freshness is 
the key.
The yeast in Hennepin is the same as that used in their dark ale.

At Ommegang they ferment at ~75F (24C).  If you ferment cooler the yeast
does not attenuate fully (in my experience).  If you are concerned about 
getting
stupefying levels of fusel alcohols at that high a temperature you can 
pitch a
strong, active starter into the wort at ~65F (18C) and allow the heat of 
fermentation
to bring the temperature up to the desired target. Pitching
the yeast into cooler wort will slow it down during the early phases of 
very rapid
growth, thus reducing higher alcohol production.
- -------------------------------------------
Joe also talks about stainless cleaning, wondering why anybody would 
advise
against the use of acid. He also mentions a certain cleaner making his 
hands
very slippery.

Using acid at home for cleaning your brewing equipment is dangerous and
unnecessary. It is also not good for the environment (acid should be 
neutralized
prior to disposal).  Scrubbing may make you sweat a bit but it works well
 and is
very safe.  The only brewing vessel I have that ever gets beer stone
(calcium oxalate) build-up is my kettle.  None of my glass fermenters 
have any
build-up in them.  The kettle is easily scrubbed.  PBW does a good job 
of
removing most everything without too much effort on my part.

If a cleaning agent makes your skin slippery it is because it is caustic.
  The
slippery feeling is the fat in your flesh being turned into soap.  No, 
that isn't
healthy.  The chemical reaction is called "saponification" and yes, that 
is
how soap is made (fat, usually from a vegetable source, is reacted with
caustic).

I guess you could take advantage of this reaction to save some money:
rather than buying soap, you can just rub caustic on yourself in the 
shower
and make soap "in situ."  Better living through chemistry!

Better yet, wear GLOVES and EYE PROTECTION when playing with
acids and bases!  Have a source of fresh water nearby to wash yourself
should you get the stuff on your body.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
There is once again talk about the "fruit fly beer." Evidently, it won
third place at a contest so some people are assuming the accidental
adjunct did no harm.  If I recall, the original writer said that he had 
not
seen the judge's comments yet.

There are some important things to keep in mind:

1.  The beer's placement in a category is meaningless.
Heck, I've won first place in category with scores of 30, and second
with a 42!  The judges' comments are the most important thing to look at.

2.  The judges may or may not be very competent.  You have to see
their comments to make that call.

The owner of this beer could clarify things by writing about the beer's
flavor.  Also, plating the beer out on LMDA (available from Brewing
Science Institute) would be a good check for bacterial contamination.

If one is very lucky, the unwelcome fruit fly may be uniquely fastidious
about personal hygiene and may not introduce enough unwelcome microbes
to hurt anything.  Do you feel lucky?  I wouldn't use a starter
with a fruit fly in it.  Fruit flies are a common brewery pest
and are a cause of concern for commercial brewers.  Do what you feel
is best.
- ----------------------------------------------
Aaron complains that his Christmas beer tastes metallic.  Metallic 
flavors
are usually a sign of oxidation, and are common in many commercial
beers, especially the imports.  Be careful about air pick-up at racking
and bottling time.

Ho Ho Ho!

George de Piro  (Nyack, NY)


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Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 09:59:17 -0500
From: "RZUK" <rzuk at IX.netcom.com>
Subject: RIMS ramp time


The consensus is the 122f rest with modern malts is only used in unique
recipes.

My equipment is RIMS based with a PID controller (thanks to Mike Bardallis a
fellow member of the Downriver Brewers Guild). My ramp time is 1.75
degrees/min. If I use a 100 F rest and the next rest is 140 F it will take
23 min getting there. Perhaps this is too much time in the 122 F corridor if
I want to avoid the 122 F point.  What are my options?

If I start with 1 qt/LB water in mash for the 100 F rest and add 1/2 qt/LB
200 F additional water to kick start the ramp time what is the upside and
downside of this procedure ?

bobz ------------------ 40 miles NE  Jeff Renner





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Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 09:59:44 -0500
From: "RZUK" <rzuk at IX.netcom.com>
Subject: CAP

I am planning to brew a Classic American Pilsner -ref  J. Renner. If I use 2
row brewers malt will I fall out of style. I suppose it will not be
representative of pre-prohibition but what is with modern malts.
What would be a good step mash profile for such a brew ?

bobz





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Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 15:33:55 -0500
From: Jim Liddil <jliddil at azcc.arizona.edu>
Subject: mills etc

Jack Schmidling reiterated an important thing to keep in mind about milling 
and homebrewing.  As homebrewers we are not making beer for money so getting 
that last bit of extract is not all htat important.  I think it is important 
to measure your extract efficiency at first and see how well you are doing.  
If you are in the 28 pts/lb range then I wouldn't worry about things too much.
 One can make decent beer with any mill and setup.  Only if your extract is 
low should you look at what you are doing.  But of course this is a hobby that 
many people tweek.  You don't need a JSP mill and a RIMS unit but there is a 
certain amount of fun and challenge in building stuff for me.  WRT to mills I 
think most all the mills on the market are OK.  But keep in mind that it takes 
a few years for a mill to be really market tested.  Look at what happened to 
the Glatt mill.  Also I was reminded about how abrasive grain is to aluminum. 
The original Listemann mill our club had had an aluminum deflector plate 
inside that was literally ground away by the malt passing by it.  I'll say 
that the company did replace it but I have not used the mill since and have 
not idea about current construction.  I sort of look at my JSP mill like a 
piece of Stickley furniture.


Jim Liddil    



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