HOMEBREW Digest #2920 Wed 06 January 1999

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  RE:Buying brewing Equipment (Bob Sheck)
  Re: (Rod Prather)
  Bell's Homegrown, Headspace (Al Czajkowski)
  re: Semiauto-clave? / What's that taste? (MaltHound)
  American Science and Surplus (Nathan Kanous)
  Re: yet another bottling question! (Seth Goodman)
  Gueuze pronunciation (Keith Busby)
  Yeast Starters/Nutrients/Open Ferment/Acid Flavor in Beer (Joe Rolfe)
  Pronunciation guide (Jim Liddil)
  Re: Ballentine IPA (Jeff Renner)
  Scales, Fill Levels, 1 gallon batches, All Grain BW efficiency ("Penn, John")
  Open Fermentor... Whoops! ("Eric Schoville")
  Gueze and other pronounciation ("Alan McKay")
  1st All Grain and Some Questions (Ian Forbes)
  Jay's contamination. (ALAN KEITH MEEKER)
  maple amber ("Czerpak, Pete")
  AHA Style Guidelines (Ted McIrvine)
  Sourdough ("RANDY ERICKSON")
  National Bay Area Brew Off reminder. ("Bryan L. Gros")
  Gueuze pronunciation ("John Griswold")
  Steam injection questions (Jon Sandlin)
  RE: Propane fittings (Robert Arguello)
  One more trick and a possible dumb question (Charley Burns)
  Open Fermentation ("Jim Busch")
  HopDevil - Malt Advocate Domestic Beer of the Year 1999!!! ("Jim Busch")
  Re: Westvletteren 12 Yeast (Jim Wallace)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 02:56:32 -0500 From: Bob Sheck <bsheck at skantech.net> Subject: RE:Buying brewing Equipment >A number of posts have asked for places to purchase >certain equipment cheaply.<<SNIP>> >I want them to be there when I need them. >- -- >John Adsit >jadsit at jeffco.k12.co.us John has it clear! This is a very healthy attitude. I have always supported my local Homebrew stores for this very reason. Now that I am a more experienced brewer and really don't need this local help (knowing how to find it on the net or HBD Archives) I still patronize my local store because we have to make sure they stay in business for all those other brewers starting out who need them to be there. And just as important as having a local homebrew supplier is having a local hombrew club to further the nurturing of those new brewers just starting on this journey. Check out: http://www.reflector.com/accent/index.html and be sure and "vote" (hope they don't change this page for a while!) As much as I love my Schmidling's mill, I still bought it via my [what was, at the time] local homebrew supply store, The Flying Barrel in Frederick, MD. http://www.FlyingBarrel.com/ - Yes, this is a crass commercial endorsement, because IMNSHO this is one of the better stores in the mid-atlantic region - Not that my present store here in Greenville can't become one of the better suppliers in the Southeastern region and an equal, and I'm sure it will when the proprieter knows what we want from him [only because homebrew supplies are not his main business, but he is very in-tune to the hand-full of us local brewers and willfully orders stuff we ask for] - jeez, sorry about rambling. Stewart does not have a web page AFAIK, or I would list it. The next closest store (52 miles South of me in Havelock, NC) is also a very good store, run by a homebrewer who is tune with homebrewing needs and wants- http://www.spaceports.com/~homebrew/ I try and split my business between the two, but of course sometimes nessesity wins out. Anyways, we need to let our local suppliers know what we want. If they don't listen to their customers, then they will get what they deserve. When you figure in shipping and time delays, mail-order is *NOT* an option. Let your local store manager know what you are going to be wanting. They listen if they are serious about staying in this business. Bob Sheck / Greenville, NC Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 08:52:05 -0500 From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net> Subject: Re: 310 Gallon batch size? I still don't understand how you get 310 gallons out af a Sanke keg setup. I didn't see the bumper sticker that said "My other brewing system is a Salm". > > For me, primary fermentation is much easier, because of my > 310 gallon batch size, and the results are excellent. I cannot > say that they are better than closed fermentation, because I > have not used closed fermentation in a long time. I encourage > people to try and use this method. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 09:12:00 -0800 From: Al Czajkowski <aczajkow at ford.com> Subject: Bell's Homegrown, Headspace >Subject: re: Bell's Homegrown Ale >Hello- >In HBD2918, Bradley Sevetson asks about Bell's Homegrown Ale: >+ Is it a hemp beer, as the name implies? Would it make you test >positive >+ in a drug test? > >No and no. It's homegrown hops. I believe they add fresh (not dried) >hops picked from Bell's small Michigan hopyard. Sorta like Grant's >Spring Ale. One right and one wrong.. :-) There is no hemp in the beer. I was a server for Bells at the Michigan Brewers Fest last summer. According to Bell, the homegrown is in reference to the 6-row barley that was grown in Michigan, all other ingredients were from their normal sources. The barley was grown in "the thumb area". Michigan doesn't normally produce barley that is up to brewing standards. As I recall the crop is good enough in one out of four or five years. Personnally, I like the brew, clean and crisp without the "lager nose" that I have come to dislike. >From: John Herman <johnvic at earthlink.net> >Subject: yet another bottling question! > > Can I have too little headspace, or is 1/2" the right amount? Yes, too little will result in under-carbonation. See some of the old HBD's for an in-depth discussion. Look for headspace and/or glass grenades. - -- Al Czajkowski Fernmental Order of Renaissance Draughtsmen Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:14:17 EST From: MaltHound at aol.com Subject: re: Semiauto-clave? / What's that taste? In 2919 "Spies, Jay" <Spies at dhcd.state.md.us> asks: <<First, I have been in the habit of placing all my bottles in the dishwasher (by themselves, with no detergent) and running it on heat dry to sanitize them ... ...Am I wasting my time? Should I be iodophor-ing them or what?>> Jay, I use a similar technique with a few minor differences. I run the dishwasher through a full wash cycle. Instead of using dishwasher detergent (most of which contain surfactants which might effect beer heading) I toss in a couple of tablespoons of liquid bleach. I select the "heat water" and "dry" options on my machine to try and get as high a temp as possible. I may be all wet, but my reasoning is that the moisture and diluted bleach wash followed by the hot rinse and heat during the dry create enough moist heat to kill almost everything. Of course, all of this only works on otherwise clean bottles. Bottles with gunk in the bottom need a (long?) soak in dilute bleach solution to fully clean out first. <<Second, my last 2 batches (an IPA and a blond ale) have had an, er, *off* flavor to them that I can only describe as *acidic* or *vinegary* (acetobacter??), I can't tell which... ...1. Priming sugar -- I have always just sprinkled the 3/4 cup directly into the bottling bucket along with the siphoned beer and mixed thoroughly. Could the sugar be contaminated??>> Bingo! I would guess this is where your problem lies. You should always boil (then cool) your priming sugar in a pint or so of water before use. Sugar is the stuff of bacteria's dreams. It's what they live for (and on). Some further questions that might help you narrow down your problem: Did you taste this batch at any time before bottling? If it tasted OK until after bottling then the priming sugar is probably the culprit. Does every bottle have the same "off flavor"? If not then your bottle cleaning and sanitizing may be the culprit. If they are all the same it leads us back to the priming... OTOH if you tasted any of this "off flavor" before bottling then that would discount either possibilities as the source. Hope this helps. Regards, Fred Wills Londonderry NH Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 08:16:01 -0600 From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu> Subject: American Science and Surplus Pat, I think the URL for American Science and Surplus is: http://www.sciplus.com/ nathan in madison, wi Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 09:29:53 -0500 From: Seth Goodman <sethgoodman at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: yet another bottling question! John Herman, in HBD #2919, wrote: > Recently I got Phil's Philler. It works great, but it really fills! In > fact it can fill to the rim. How much is too much? A couple of bottles > ended up havin an 1/8 inch headspace, but I quickly learned to get a 1/2 > inch headspace. Can I have too little headspace, or is 1/2" the right > amount? > I have had a Phil's Philler for about a year and a half, and have also filled some bottles virtually to the rim. Several sources, including the NCJOHB, I believe (can't find my copy right now to quote specifically), say that beer will not become properly carbonated if filled so close to the rim. However, it has been my empirical experience that such bottles carbonate just fine. They may not make the usual "Phfffft" sound when you uncap them, but they are fully carbonated. On the non-empirical side of things, though, I recall stewarding at a competition where a judge observed such an "overfilled" bottle, and commented on it as though he considered it a defect. BJCP scoresheets have no score for such a "defect" (bottle condition is just an observation), but I would be reluctant to plant ideas in anyone's mind. Thus, I try to stick to about 1/2" of headspace. HTH, Seth Goodman P.S. It seems odd to post to the HBD and not be talking about electricity! Please excuse the on-topic post! ;-) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 08:34:32 -0600 From: Keith Busby <kbusby at ou.edu> Subject: Gueuze pronunciation As a speaker of Dutch, I can assure Doug that Jackson is closer than the hbd in his approximation of how to pronounce "gueuze". And as a Brit, I can tell you that Jackson would not pronounce "r"'s in "cursor". In Dutch, the initial "g" is a slightly rasping aspirate "h" (more or less as the Scottish "ch" in "och aye"); in Flemish (Belgian), it can vary between a softer version (more akin to aspirate "h" followed by "y") to a regular "g". As for the vowel, it is a true diphthong (say "e" [phonetic schwa] followed by "u" very quickly). The "z" is halfway between "s" and "z", followed by a half schwa to extend the consonant. If I could display the IPA on e-mail (that's International Phonetic Alphabet, not . . .), I would. Sorry to be pedantic. KB Keith Busby George Lynn Cross Research Professor Center for Medieval and Renaissance Studies University of Oklahoma 780 Van Vleet Oval, Room 202 Norman, OK 73019 Tel: (405) 325-5088. Fax: (405) 325-0103 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:54:18 -0500 (EST) From: Joe Rolfe <onbc at shore.net> Subject: Yeast Starters/Nutrients/Open Ferment/Acid Flavor in Beer From: "Mike & Lynn Key" <flakeys at ibm.net> Had some questions about starters...decant or not... and yeast nutrients... For the average sized batches homebrewers typically do (and not blending/doubling up on them) you may be better off to decant - but then only if the starter is totally fermented out. If it is still fairly active (not settled out and still producing a head) pitch all of it. If you do plan on pitching a full healthy active starter take care in treating the starter like the beer, avoid heavy aeration and keep it out of the light, in later doubling stages. I tend to prefer decant, and feed the nite before brewing but timing is real tough. Yeast hulls - never used them, YEASTEX from Siebels/Crosby&Baker I swear by it. In larger fermentations (5-10bbl) the stuff easily knocked a full day or two of the fermentation, and repitching yeast appeared more viable for a longer time after primary completed. This stuff has lots of "exotic" chemicals in it. Works real good. Yeast are cannibals so I would assume the yeast hulls would serve the similar purpose of supplying key nutrients. From: "Eric Schoville" <ESCHOVIL at us.oracle.com> Open Fermentations and BIG HOMEBREW Some yeast require open fermentation to harvest properly. I dont enjoy most "real" top fermented beers...so I dont do it. But the bigger commercial places by A.Pugsley take many precautions to prevent "unwanted visitors" and the beer goes from brewhouse to bottle very quickly - like 8 days. They filter pretty tight also. The best bet is to drink it up quickly (like that would be a bad thing;) or filter. Covering does cut back the risk quite abit and the bigger guys dont do this. <snip> >because of my 310 gallon batch size, and the results are >excellent. I yeild to this guy for biggest homebrew set up...yow... that must be a cellar full open top sankey kegs...;) From: "Spies, Jay" <Spies at dhcd.state.md.us> Acidic/Vinegar taste in beer sound pretty good for acetobacter...... Repitched yeast - you would have to look at or plate it. Primings must be pastuerized - the sugar can contain wild yeast or others. Old Bottling bucket - plastic - you betcha - a plate test same as yeast. Lactic - that seems to be quite alote of acid for a small volume but your water may be pretty tough. Skip the acid unless you have a pH meter, and you probably want to clean or replace plastic items. Take care cleaning plastic so as not to scratch it. Cook the sugar before bottling. Good Luck and Great Brewing Joe Rolfe Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 08:03:50 +0000 From: Jim Liddil <jliddil at azcc.arizona.edu> Subject: Pronunciation guide Go to: http://belgianstyle.com/mmguide/ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:04:30 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: Ballentine IPA Bob Eddy <reddy at qualcomm.com> writes about Larry O'Mahoney's and my previoius posts on cloning Ballantine IPA: I have always referred to this beer as Ballentine XXX. I guess I could go to the local beer store and check, but I think that XXX is Ballantine's "regular" ale, lower gravity and less hoppy than IPA. To duplicate it, try making the clone Larry wrote up but simply use proportionately less ingredients - maybe for 1.048 and 25 IBU? Or, maybe it really is the IPA you remember, since you write: >The beer fairly shouted of hops and was my first >excursion outside the safer realms of bland, mass-produced, American style >lagers (although even they were better 30 years ago!). > >The one beer I've recently found that comes the close to the unique flavor >I personally remember, is Hop Ottin' IPA from Anderson Valley Brewing in >Boonville, CA. ... All I >could get off their web page was that they use "Generous additions of >Columbus hops during the boil, plus traditional dry hopping". ... >I don't know if XXX even used Columbus hops. Perhaps it's the dryhopping that is similar. Columbus is a new variety that wasn't available back when you remember Ballantine's. My suggestion is that you go ahead and brew according to Larry's recipe. Be sure to report back. And for other brewers, don't be afraid of corn! CAP and old American ales are world class styles when made properly. Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:14:07 -0500 From: "Penn, John" <John.Penn at jhuapl.edu> Subject: Scales, Fill Levels, 1 gallon batches, All Grain BW efficiency Regarding some Recent questions, Scales: I use a $5 scale from Lecter's that goes from 0-16oz but probably has only 0.2 oz accuracy. Wal-mart probably has one too, I'll go look for one that goes to a few pounds. Fill Levels/Carbonation: Make sure you leave some headspace. Carbonation seems to be a function of yeast variety, alcohol strength (stronger takes longer), bottle storage temperature (warmer is faster), how much yeast you managed to siphon into your bottling bucket (don't get overly anal about avoiding a little yeast siphoned into the bucket), how long you waited before bottling, ferment temp. of yeast/viability at time of bottling, fill level, etc. Recent posters asking how long to wait before carbonation is complete, should realize its a big DEPENDS ON question. Patience and experience with your own system/techniques is best. 1 gallon batches: It will take the yeast as long to ferment a 1 gallon batch as a 3-10 gallon batch. Don't rush it just because its a smaller batch. As for scaling batches to 1 gallon the only thing you really need to compensate for is hop utilization. A partial concentrated boil gets less hop utilization so you need to duplicate the boil fraction of the original extract recipe or do a full boil if the recipe is a full boil. The grain ingredients should scale. All Grain BW with 1.080 starting gravity instead of 1.1?? : Its tough to make a high gravity beer with all grain. See the recent no-sparge efficiency posts in the HBD. Your calculator probably doesn't account for efficiency well when your sparge water is so limited and the starting gravity is so high. If you are making a 3 gallon batch with 14 # of grain and shooting for such a high starting gravity you may want to recalculate your expected OG. Also, I have on occasion had misleading hydrometer readings which I wish I had taken a second measurement on. If the reading is off, I tend to take it with a grain of salt (that's an expression for those outside US that means to discount the worth of the one dubious measurement). John Penn Eldersburg, MD Return to table of contents
Date: 05 Jan 99 07:30:54 -0800 From: "Eric Schoville" <ESCHOVIL at us.oracle.com> Subject: Open Fermentor... Whoops! I wrote in HBD 2919: > For me, primary fermentation is much easier, because of my > 310 gallon batch size ^^^ Whoops! Should be 10 gallon! Eric Schoville Flower Mound, TX http://home1.gte.net/rschovil/beer/3tier.html Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:15:01 -0500 From: "Alan McKay" <Alan.McKay.amckay at nt.com> Subject: Gueze and other pronounciation Doug Moyer writes : > Michael Jackson's _Great Beers of Belgium_ states, "Gueuze is > pronounced almost like cursor..." The hbd pronunciation guide ( > http://hbd.org/pronunciation ) states, "GOY-za", yet the .wav sounds > more like, "HOY-za". No offense to the keeper of the above guide, but I'd just like to point out that it improperly pronounces most of the German words in there. For a better example of the proper German (and some Czech) pronounciation, have a look at http://www.magma.ca/~bodnsatz/brew/pronounciation/ I've had a few Efriends in Germany go over it, and they have given it their stamp of approval. The HBD folks (Pat?) are free to copy my WAV files, as long as they give me credit, and create a link to my pronounciation page. cheers, -Alan - -- Alan McKay <<...>> Norstar Desktop Computing and LAN Solutions PC Support Prime amckay at nortelnetworks.com 765-6843 (ESN 395) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:45:47 -0500 From: Ian_Forbes at AICI.COM (Ian Forbes) Subject: 1st All Grain and Some Questions Greetings and happy Brew year, Let me start by saying that I never imagined that doing an all grain batch could be so Cool! It is absolutely amazing to go from a bag of grain to a big pot of beautiful wort. It's one thing to read about it in books and magazines, but something else entirely to experience it firsthand. First there is the fresh grain. What a wonderful taste and aroma. Then there is the cracked grain. The aroma becomes full and sweet. Then come a few scribbled calculations to get the correct temp for the strike water, followed by the mash. Drain this into my pot, add hops, cool, pitch and relax. What a truly awe inspiring experience this was for me. (I know I must sound like a babbling clich, but it is all true. I swear!). I can't wait to taste the finished product. Here's the recipe (a porter) for 5 Gallons: (this was mostly taken from Brewing Techniques at http://brewingtechniques.com/library/styles/sidebars.html#recip es) 12 lb Briess two-row 1 lb Flaked Maize 12 oz Crystal 80L 6 oz Black Patent 3/4 oz Cluster 60min 3/4 Styrian Goldings 45min 1/4 Styrian Goldings 15min 1/4 tsp. Irish Moss 15min Wyeast 2035 American Lager I used 1.25 qt./lb grain for my mash. The grain was at 64 degree F and I wanted to mash at 154 degree F. I believe the strike temp was 169 degree. Mash time was supposed to be 60 minutes. Ok, here's the scoop. I was attempting the no-sparge technique that I have gleaned from the archives, so I increased my original grain bill by 33 percent (which is reflected above). I mashed all of the grain in a 5 gal. Gott cooler. ( I need to insert a side note here. I recently inquired in this very forum regarding what size cooler to obtain for mashing. I received 15 responses and very sound advice - 13 advised a 10 Gal. and 2 recommended the 5 gal The respondents who advised the 10 gallon said that if I went with the 5 gal I would quickly run out of space. To make a long story short, and to get to my point, when you ask the good people of the HBD for advice, FOLLOW IT! I just ordered my 10 gal Gott :-) from www.franks-supply.com, just a happy customer and all that.) Back to business, after the grain had been mashing for 55 minutes, I noticed that I had failed to add the flaked maize. I added it at this point and extended the mash to almost 2 hours. At this point I have three questions. 1) What effect should I expect from this extended mash? 2) Can I feel comfortable that the maize was converted? (no iodine test performed) 3) While trying to assess the temperature of the mash, I found it very difficult to get a consistent reading. I have the brewers edge dial thermometer with a 8 inch (I believe) probe. At dough-in the temp appeared to be 154, but If I moved it around I could bet anything from 152 to 156. At the end of the mash I believe that the temp and fallen to about 150 again with a 4 degree fluctuation Is there any good procedure of obtaining the temp of a mash? I then drained the cooler to my boiling pot. I got about 1 1/2 to 2 gal of runnings with a SG of about 1.095 or so. I topped this off with about 4 gal of water and boiled for 1 hour. I cooled with an immersion chiller to about 60 degree and recked to my carboy. When I had completed the transfer I noticed that I only had 4 1/2 gal or so, so I topped this off to 5 gallons. I forgot to get a SG reading (kicking myself ever since). Based on my best guesstimate, I believe the SG was around 1.050 (don't ask how I got to this number because it is way to convoluted). Next round of questions: 1) Does anyone have a good protocol or advice for no-sparging, i.e. water/grain ratio, SG calculations, etc.? 2) I tried to add more water to the mash to get some more runnings (would this be a semi-sparge?), but I guess the grain had set. I used an Easymasher and seem to recall reading that you couldn't set a mash. Any advice on how to get the runoff running again? 3) If, on my next batch, I decided to sparge, can someone give me step by step instructions on how to do it? I can't seem to find the entire procedure anywhere. Next came the pitching of the yeast, and as I mentioned above, it was Wyeast 2035 American Lager. Fermentation temp range is listed as 48 - 58 degree F. I smacked the pack and let it swell at room temp (66 degree F) for two days (manufacture date was Dec 6, 1998 and smack date was Dec 28). I pitched directly from the pack at 66 degree F (sorry, no time to do a starter) into 60 degree wort. I covered the carboy with a towel and placed it in a big pot of water in front of a fan in my ~58 degree cellar. The fermentation temp has varied between 50 and 54 degree F. Fermentation seems to be going great now, but it took two and a half days to start. More Questions: (note that this is my first time with a lager yeast) 1) Was this lag time due to pitching directly from the pack, or did I shock the yeast with a dramatic and relatively fast drop in temperature? Or both? 2) What negative consequences can I expect from the large lag time? 3) Now that fermentation is well underway, I notice a very unsightly site. The top of the krausen has a thick, slick, tarry substance on top. It looks like brown tar. Should I rack to secondary before the krausen falls? If yes, how do I know when to transfer to secondary? 4) When I smell the gas coming out of the airlock, it has a very strong sulfur smell. Will this smell go away? Has anyone else noticed this smell with this yeast? Last Question: This was supposed to be like a Yuengling Porter. Now, however I am not so sure it will be. A Closer reading of the BT article on American Porters seems to indicate a different hop schedule, so we'll see. "Ray Norbert, Yuengling's veteran brewmaster of 50 years, continues to produce porter not unlike the recipes of the 1940s. The company's Pottsville Porter is a 1.048 original gravity (12 P) bottom-fermented beer using six-row base malt with corn grits and 50L caramel and black malt. 'There is a balance between black and caramel malt,' Norbert said. 'Otherwise, too much black malt will leave a coarse, burnt flavor.' Hops include Cluster and Cascade, with IBUs ranging between 22 and 24." Here's the question, does anyone have a good recipe for a Yuengling Porter recipe? Any critiques or pointers regarding my techniques would be greatly appreciated. Thanks to all of you on and at the HBD. Ian Forbes Hamden, CT Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:06:38 -0500 (EST) From: ALAN KEITH MEEKER <ameeker at welchlink.welch.jhu.edu> Subject: Jay's contamination. Jay posted some sanitation questions: >First, I have been in the habit of placing all my bottles in the >dishwasher (by themselves, with no detergent) and running it on heat dry >to sanitize them. I would think this should be sufficient for brewing purposes, assuming of course that the bottles have been thoroughly cleaned beforehand. Remember that for brewing all we usually need is SANITATION rather than sterilization which is much more difficult to achieve, especially in the home setting. That being said however, there are likely to be key steps at which even low levels of contamination by bacteria or wild yeasts could be problematic - the yeast starter comes to mind here, especially if the contamination happens at an early step in a multi-step expansion of starter volume. My own procedure for bottles is to thoroughly rinse them then soak for a couple of weeks in bleach solution followed by a rinse with hot tap water. I'm assuming the hot water in my hot water heater is close enough to sterile for brewing purposes and so far I haven't had any trouble with this method. >Second, my last 2 batches (an IPA and a blond ale) have had an, er, *off* >flavor to them that I can only describe as *acidic* or *vinegary* >(acetobacter??), I can't tell which. >1. Priming sugar -- I have always just sprinkled the 3/4 cup directly >into the bottling bucket along with the siphoned beer and mixed >thoroughly. A possibility. The sugar will certainly not be sterile. I believe most people pre-dissolve their priming sugar or dried malt in water and boil to sanitize. This is certainly an easy and prudent thing to do. In addition, it may allow for more thorough mixing of your priming sugar with the beer. >2. Old bottling bucket -- My bottling bucket is only used for bottling, Perhaps, but I tend to doubt this, especially as you soak this in iodine for a day and you don't see visible scratches or gouges. It is however always going to be a *formal* possibility that somewhere in the bucket, or perhaps more likely the spigot, there is a place where some deposit is sequestered from complete contact with your sterilizing solution yet somehow during bottling comes in contact with your beer. >3. Repitched yeast -- these 2 batches were the 3rd and 4th repitches of >a good 1056 slurry. I repitch on all of my batches, and have never >noticed off flavors of any kind. The batches were repitched into the >same carboy as batch 2 of that yeast This is the one that raises the most red flags on my end. When you first mentioned your habit of continually repitching the same yeast for an entire brewing season I cringed but, as you weren't experiencing any problems, it seemed OK. Can't argue with success after all! Now you are having problems so I would have to say this may be a very risky procedure. It may also depend upon what sanitation steps you are taking with your carboys. You mentioned flaming the mouth of the carboy but were any steps taken to clean/sanitize the carboy following the first batch? Also, what about closures - rubber stoppers/airlocks - are these being thoroughly cleaned and sanitized? >4. Lactic acidified sparge water -- same as always (about 4-5 drops 88% >lactic per 6 or so gallons of sparge water). Absolutely NO WAY. Volume added is way too small to have the effect you seem to be experiencing. Do you have any more evidence of the proposed contamination, such as bottle neck rings or unusual cloudiness in the beer? -Alan Meeker, fellow Baltimoron. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:31:04 -0500 From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com> Subject: maple amber Hello all and happy new brewing year: I am going to be brewing a maple amber in the coming weeks to appease my SO. I checked the archives but opinions vary on when to add the syrup for maximum maple flavor and aroma. I have about 1 to 2 qts to work with for a 3 to 5 gallon batch. I'm not sure which size I'll be doing..... When is it best to make additions of syrup to retain maple flavor and smell though bottling. I have also seen that it takes longer to ferment. What says yee?? I'm thinking of bottling with 1.25 cups of syrup instead of DME, and then somehow splitting the remainder between longer boiling and very short boiling. Maybe 25% at 30 minutes left and the other 75% at 2-5 minutes left. Are longer boiling times (probably less flavor and aroma even desired) from a sugars breakdown concept? Any suggestions/opinions or words of wisdom? Also, hops recommendations? - I was thinking Fuggles to boil and Tett/Hall for finish (maybe 20-25 IBUs) Thanks and hoppy brewing, Pete pete.czerpak at siigroup.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 11:25:21 -0800 From: Ted McIrvine <McIrvine at ix.netcom.com> Subject: AHA Style Guidelines My original point that triggered this was that many beers that are respected examples of a style don't fall into the AHA guidelines. For example, there are three notches of original gravity which are prohibited in Belgium yet almost encouraged in the BJCP guidelines. (I haven't seen the recent AHA guidelines, but in BJCP guide, DUbbel, Strong Golden, Saison, and Lambic gravity ranges all fall heavily into one of the forbidden gravity zones.) And nobody seems to agree on what a Scotch ale really looks and tastes like. I've had many (such as MacEwen's) that fall in between the 80 shilling export and the strong scotch ale range. And I've had some that are golden and some that aren't malty (such as New Caledonian Golden promise). I don't know how the AHA/BJCP determined guidelines for Scotish and Belgian styles. Even if Billy Bob wasn't consulted, the descriptions are often in conflict with brewing practices in Scotland and Belgium and that is the crux of my complaint. Ted McIrvine McIrvine at Ix.Netcom.Com > Alan (Alan McKay <AMCKAY at NortelNetworks.Com> stated > "There are a lot of problems with the AHA styles, and with the > judging process in general. In many cases the people setting > those guidelines have never tasted a true example of the style of > beer they are pretending to be experts in. The only thing they've > tasted it billy bob's version of uncle chuck's rendition of the > beer he remembers his grandfather telling him about > from back in the war." > And David L. Houseman <David.Houseman at unisys.com> replied in part: > I can state that for both the AHA and the BJCP that this statement is > patently FALSE. While both the current AHA and BJCP style guidelines each > has its own problems, IMHO, the BJCP Style Guide Committee is in the process > of re-writing them and negotiating with the AHA for a common set of style > guidelines for homebrew competitions. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:21:56 -0800 From: "RANDY ERICKSON" <RANDYE at MID.ORG> Subject: Sourdough As a follow-up to Jeff Renner's post last week about the rec.food.sourdough newsgroup and FAQs: It appears that the HBD's own Brian Dixon is the author of the sourdough starter FAQ. You can see it at: ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-group/news.answers/food/sourdough/starters Good job Brian! Randy Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 10:07:22 -0800 From: "Bryan L. Gros" <gros at bigfoot.com> Subject: National Bay Area Brew Off reminder. Next week, Jan. 11, entries will be accepted in the 13th annual National Bay Area Brew Off. Final judging will be Feb 7 at Hooligans Pub in Dublin, California. Send your entries to Hoptech Homebrew Supplies (www.hoptech.com) in Pleasanton. (3015 Hopyard Rd, Ste E, Pleasanton CA 94588) before Jan. 24. Prizes and ribbons are awarded in each of these eight categories: Pale American Ales (includes Amer. Pale Ale, Amer. Amber Ale) Pale English Ales (Bitter, Special Bitter, ESB, and IPA) Dark Lagers (Maibock, trad. bock, doppelbock, vienna, marzen, dunkel, schwartz) Porters (brown and robust) Stouts (dry, foreign, sweet, oatmeal) Barleywine & wheatwine Christmas beers Mead Entries consist of 2 bottles and $6 per entry. Only one entry per style please. Attach a label to each bottle with your name, address, phone number, club affiliation, category, style, and any special ingredients used. For mead, specify still or sparkling and metheglin, traditional, pyment, cyser, or melomel as necessary. Details at http://www.dnai.com/~thor/dboard/babo99.htm All are welcome to celebrate at Hooligans California AleHouse and Grill and to pick up your scoresheets (7294 San Ramon Rd., Dublin CA) Judge or steward volunteers please contact Bryan Gros (gros at bigfoot.com) via email or at 510-601-6780. Bryan Gros mailto:gros at bigfoot.com Oakland, CA Organizer, 1999 National Bay Area Brew Off http://www.valhallabrewing.com/~thor/dboard/babo99.htm Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:20:43 -0500 From: "John Griswold" <griswold at ma.ultranet.com> Subject: Gueuze pronunciation Doug Moyer was asking for pronunciation tips - I stumbled upon this = little gem (even if I'm late, I feel like I'm contributing ;) http://belgianstyle.com/mmguide/pronounce/speak.html John Griswold griswold at ma.ultranet.com http://www.ultranet.com/~griswold Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:12:28 -0800 (PST) From: Jon Sandlin <sandlinj at ucs.orst.edu> Subject: Steam injection questions I planning to use steam injection in my mashtun. I use a rectangular cooler and I am curious if I have the steam manifold laying on the bottom of the tun if it will melt the plastic? Also, I use a CPVC manifold on the bottom of the cooler for lautering and have had no trouble with it, though I am thinking of using it for the steam manifold. Does anybody see any trouble with this? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Private email if fine. Jon Sandlin Corvallis, OR Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:59:14 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Arguello <robertac at calweb.com> Subject: RE: Propane fittings My good friend Randy in Modesto asked about a source of propane fittings: >Well, the RIMS project is going great, nearly done, and with the >1/2" MPT to 1/2" tube connector I picked up on my lunch hour, >I think I have just one design hurdle left: How to tee off my >propane gas line to two burners. Randy! How are ya? Just north of you, (in Sacramento), there is a company called... Empire Gas. They had the fitting you ask about a few years ago when I built my RIMS. It's basically a "Y" that screws into your propane tank. Other propane retailers should be able to help as well...AmeriGas and Suburban to name just a couple. You being in Modesto, (The RV capital of the freekin' world), might also have success at one of the myriad RV product companies in your area. Talk to you soon. Robert A. ******************************************************************** Robert Arguello <robertac at calweb.com> Corny kegs - Mahogany 6-pack carriers - ProMash Brewing Software http://www.calweb.com/~robertac ******************************************************************** Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 99 13:22 PST From: caburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charley Burns) Subject: One more trick and a possible dumb question Brewed up an Oatmeal stout while watching a rollercoaster of a game between 49'ers and peckers, er pAckers. The day before I had harvested a full quart of wyeast 1968 slurry from a storage keg at Jack Russel brewery, compliments of Terry Bonham (thanks Terry). Overnight it had settled to a thick mass that was only about 1 pint. Apparently a lot of gas of some kind in the yeast, as there was very little liquid on top of the yeast cake. When it came time to pitch the yeast I couldn't get it to come out of the jar and through a funnel (too thick) and ended up running some chilled wort into the jar to thin it out. My goal was to save at least half the yeast for another batch later on. Ended up pitching all of it into a single 5 gallon batch, from my very rough calculations, about 4 times more yeast than an adequate pitching rate. The wort was about 65F at pitching, the lower end of 1968's range. I had a couple bubbles out the airlock by nightfall. In the morning, my basement temp had fallen to about 58F and the fermenter was totally quiet. I guessed that it was just too cold for 1968. I grabbed my trusty hot pad and wrapped it around the carboy along with a blanket and turned it on. The stupid brewer trick part is that I set it on HIGH instead of LOW heat. I came home last night to a wonderful smell in the basement, but a steady steam of bubbles mixed with foam ooozing out of the fermenter. Holy cow was that thing HOT It must have been 90+ degrees (how's that for a forced fermentation test?). I quickly pulled the airlock off and replaced it with some loose fitting aluminum foil (pulled the plug on the hot pad too). This morning it was still about 75F and I put the airlock back in (head had dropped). Still getting a steady stream of bubbles, left it wrapped in the blanket without hot pad this time. This stout could be a very weird tasting one. Testing the higher alcohol production at high fermentation temps by mistake. Now for the potentially stupid question. I have noticed a few recipes that call for mashing at high temps (158F-160F) that also include some cara-pils malt. Is this redundant? Are we wasting our malt budget on higher priced cara-pils and then turning around and making more dextrins using the high mash temps? Charley (feeling stupid once again, and now questioning myself) in N. Cal Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:31:09 +0000 From: "Jim Busch" <jim at victorybeer.com> Subject: Open Fermentation This is one of those old topics that seems to reappear every 3 years or so on the digest. Open fermenters are great in general and essential in some styles such as a Belgian Saison I plan on brewing tomorrow. While I have a unitank now and do love it, some of my best beers were always made in an open fermenter and like I say I couldnt expect this fine Belgian yeast to preform properly in a unitank as I doubt it would finish fermenting to terminal gravity. Anyway, I wrote an article on the subject many years ago and its on the web unde the yeast culture kit co site. (BTW, the key to all good beer is pitching enough good viable yeast cells into properly handled wort. If you do that then open fermentation will work fine for you). Here is the URL: http://oeonline.oeonline.com/~pbabcock/yckco/article1.html Prost! Jim Busch Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:37:46 +0000 From: "Jim Busch" <jim at victorybeer.com> Subject: HopDevil - Malt Advocate Domestic Beer of the Year 1999!!! We're all very proud of the accolaids that our beloved HopDevil has received of late and in particular the great praise from Lew Bryson and John Hansell of The Malt Advocate. Thanks to all of the Victory fans and what a great way to start the New Year! Prost! Jim Busch PS: Salvator was import beer of year and Sierra brewer of the year. Subject: Malt Advocate Beers of the Year 1999 From: BeerFly Now that it's official, my congratulations to the following brewers for being selected as (respectively) Malt Advocate's Import Beer, Domestic Beer, and Brewer of the Year. Well done, and richly deserved. Please keep in mind that Malt Advocate picks only one award winner in these classes each year. Domestic Beer of the Year Victory HopDevil IPA We could be accused of local prejudice here. Victory Brewing is only 43 road miles from our offices. But while Victory keeps distribution close to home, the shining beacon of HopDevil has refused to stay hidden. The hopfire and maltstone of the `Devil has won it a national cult following fed by rave Internet reviews and clandestine UPS shipments. We couldn't ignore it any longer. What separates HopDevil from other whoppingly hopped ales? In a word, framework. Too many hop-it rockets don't have a base for their bitterness. HopDevil is as solidly malty as it is slashingly hopped. Add to that the impeccable cleanness of the finish and the unmistakable craft of brewers Ron Barchet and Bill Covaleski and you've got a Beer of the Year. Tasting Notes: A first sip brings a growl of appreciation, but the first serious mouthful opens the eyes in wonderful comprehension. So don't sip, take a big bite, and you'll find that the billowing bountiful hop nose is no lie; this beer follows through on every promise. The mouth fills with hop flavor borne on a bed of good German malt. As the beer passes into the gullet a bitterness pleasantly tempered and smoothed fills the mouth. This is a beer that "goes to eleven." Turn it up, rock your world. Victory HopDevil is brewed by Victory Brewing Co., 420 Acorn Lane, Downingtown, PA (610/873-0881), www.victorybeer.com . Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 11:18:58 -0500 From: Jim Wallace <jwallace at crocker.com> Subject: Re: Westvletteren 12 Yeast Peter, One of the worlds truly great beers if you havn't tried it yet I still have close to a case left (along with the wooden crate made by the monks) The yeast in the bottle is the real thing.. I have tried to culture the 12 on several occasions but with limited luck I just plated out a seeming ferment of it yesterday and waiting to see If it's trippel you want then the yeast from the Westmalle Tripple is a much easier yeast to get they sell it at many good stores here in the states and I find it very easy to culture well the character of the westmalle tripple and Westvlet 12 are VERY different. These 2 beers are very different WM is a large brewing op with extensive distribution whereas WV is very small and NO commercial distribution.. if you want to get it you must go to the source and pick it up from the monks(usually a queue early am). sometimes you may be luck enough to get it at stores such as 'Hop Duvel' in Ghent. I don't even remember it being available at Kulminator in Antwerp. >From: "Peter Zien" <PZ.JDZINC at worldnet.att.net> >I recently acquired a prized bottle of Westvletteren 12 Abt beer. It was >picked up at the Trappist Abbaye 30 days ago and was shipped immediately. >It appears to be in great shape, with a nice dusting of yeast on the bottom. >I would like to culture it and pitch into a 1.080 OG Trippel if it is the >same yeast used for primary fermentation. However, I am having trouble >locating a source that discusses this particular strain. Michael Jackson >appears to have first hand knowledge about the neighboring Westmalle Trippel >yeast, claiming that although the primary yeast is filtered out, the same >yeast is reintroduced at bottling. Does anyone know if this is true with >the Westvletteren yeast? Has Wyeast already incorporated this yeast into >their line-up, saving me the trouble? Thanks for your help! ___________________________________________ JIM WALLACE ... jwallace at crocker.com http://www.crocker.com/~jwallace ___________________________________________ Return to table of contents
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