HOMEBREW Digest #2980 Wed 17 March 1999

[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]

		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  DMS flavor in Munich Dunkel (Steven Gibbs)
  Steam Injected RIMS update ("William W. Macher")
  Firkins yeast (David Cato)
  Re: Chitosan? ("Robert J. Waddell")
  Dispensing Pressure (Kyle Druey)
  formulas for alcohol determination (ensmingr)
  100 Gallon Limit (Rod Prather)
  Re: IBU standard... (Steve Jackson)
  Local HB R.I.P. ("ajphoto")
  Westvleteren Yeast / Bulk Buy (John Varady)
  Re: backdoor dealings (Joel Plutchak)
  Homebrew & Longevity (Eddie Kent)
  CST problems ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  Cleaning Carboys ("Nix, Andrew")
  scrubbys (Bryan Gros)
  Extract CAP Recipes ("RANDY ERICKSON")
  Split Session Brewing (Ted McIrvine)
  New Orleans ("RANDY ERICKSON")
  never done a mead or a pLambic for that matter... (jim williams)
  crush (Alan Edwards)
  Re: Where to get 6oz bottles for barleywine (Rick Raver)
  Response to interesting Wheat beer questions ("George De Piro")
  Subject: 100 Gallon limit broken! dont do it (WayneM38)
  Dutch Oud Bruin (Gary H Nazelrod)
  Purging with steam... ("William W. Macher")
  Barleywine bottles (Stephen Klump)
  RE: Split session brewing (John Wilkinson)
  Split Session Brewing (PRS) - CPC" <PRS at NA2.US.ML.COM>

Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! Madison Homebrewers and Tasters Guild's 13th annual Big and Huge - 28 March 1999: Rules and forms at www.globaldialog.com/madbrewers Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org. **SUBSCRIBE AND UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS MUST BE SENT FROM THE E-MAIL ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!** IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, the autoresponder and the SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE commands will fail! Contact brewery at hbd.org for information regarding the "Cat's Meow" Back issues are available via: HTML from... http://hbd.org Anonymous ftp from... ftp://hbd.org/pub/hbd/digests ftp://ftp.stanford.edu/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer AFS users can find it under... /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer COPYRIGHT for the Digest as a collection is currently held by hbd.org (Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen). Digests in their entirity CANNOT be reprinted/reproduced without this entire header section unless EXPRESS written permission has been obtained from hbd.org. Digests CANNOT be reprinted or reproduced in any format for redistribution unless said redistribution is at absolutely NO COST to the consumer. COPYRIGHT for individual posts within each Digest is held by the author. Articles cannot be extracted from the Digest and reprinted/reproduced without the EXPRESS written permission of the author. The author and HBD must be attributed as author and source in any such reprint/reproduction. (Note: QUOTING of items originally appearing in the Digest in a subsequent Digest is exempt from the above. Home brew clubs NOT associated with organizations having a commercial interest in beer or brewing may republish articles in their newsletters and/or websites provided that the author and HBD are attributed. ASKING first is still a great courtesy...) JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:22:35 -0800 From: Steven Gibbs <gibbs at lightspeed.net> Subject: DMS flavor in Munich Dunkel Dear Collective: I recently brewed a Munich Lager with about 60% Munich malt, 35% Weyerman German Pils, and the balance in Carapils, Choc., Belg. bisq., and a touch of crystal. I used a single decoction mash with temps. at 140', 150' and mash out at 163'. Used a Wyeast Munich liq. yeast starter of approx. 2 liters and fermented at 48' for 12 days, bumped to 58' for 4 day diacetyl rest and racked to 2ndary at 38' for 2 weeks. Now with that background, here's my problem: I tasted the beer and it absolutely reeks of DMS/cooked corn/cabbage. I have never had this sort of problem with one of my lagers, and especially a dark lager. my RSH seems to point to a malt problem as this is the place where the offending compounds are derived, but with my 90 min. uncovered hard boils, use of a 30 ft. immersion chiller and computer controlled fermentation temp. I thought I had all the corners figured out. The only interesting change from other recipes is that I cultured up the yeast from three 1 1/2 year old smack packs which where pitched after they swelled. Somebody out there must have had this problem, and then maybe a long lagering will cure the problem. Happy Brewing Steve Gibbs Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:59:10 From: "William W. Macher" <macher at telerama.lm.com> Subject: Steam Injected RIMS update Hi all, Well things have progressed to the point where I have actually done a test of my steam-injected rims setup, using 8 gallons of water. As set up currently, I was able to get a little over 2 degrees F. temperature rise as measured by the thermometer on the inlet side of the steam injector. I will follow this posting sometime in the future with more details. But here are a couple initial observations... The heat chamber when using steam can be small! I got ahead of myself as I was fabricating this thing, and although I planned on making the injection chamber out of 3/4 inch copper tubing, I got wrapped up in my work and had fabricated it from half-inch copper (same size as most of the plumbing) before I remembered my original intention. The steam injection line comes in the top of a tee (through a compression fitting) and runs down inside the tee and an inch or so into the line coming up from the pump. Just after the injection point the wort takes an immediate right turn out of the tee, and this provides a high turbulence point for good mixing of the wort for even temperature (not sure if required, but it can't hurt...) Since this stuff was already soldered in place, I left it as is and the initial tests indicate that it will work fine. Heat input is independent of flow rate in the recirculation line, just as is the case with an electric heating element. However, the scorching concern is not there, because the temperature of the steam is about 227 degrees F., and this is the maximum that the wort in the recirculation line can be raised to, even if flow is stopped. During the initial test I was able to measure 30 or 40 degrees F. rise across the injection point by slowing the flow rate considerably. I get about 227 degree F. steam because there is about 5 pounds of back pressure in the line/injector path at my highest flow rate. The sound of the steam condensing in the recirculation line is a little noisy, and I wonder if a larger diameter injection chamber might deaden the noise a little. Not unbearable or anything, but certainly louder than the silence of electricity. Raising 8 gallons of water 2 degrees F. in one minute calculates out to heat input of about 2,300 watts: 8 gal. X 8.345 lb/gal X 2 deg. F. / 1 min. = 133.53 BTU/min >From my table of conversion factors, 1 BTU/min = 17.57 Watt/min 133.53 BTU/min = 133.53 x 17.57 W/min = 2,346 W/min This compares favorably with the 1,500 watts output of a 6,000 watt electric element running at one-quarter power (my understanding this is the norm for an electric rims). The wok burner that I am using under my 22-quart pressure canner is rather large in diameter and if I turn it too high, the flames come out around the bottom and I fear burning the handles off! This limits the amount of steam I am able to generate. I certainly have more capacity in the burner. I am using natural gas as my energy source. I need to do further testing. This test was done with return water entering the mash tun from a hose, at an angle and probably mixing pretty well. Using the return manifold that I have now fabricated I should be able to ensure that I have good mixing of the hot liquid and that I am not recirculating only a portion of it (I do not think I was in the initial test, but...) By the way, it is amazing how much time one can spend building something like a rims system....polishing all that copper tubing takes time:-)...as do those important moments of beer sipping and admiration of one's progress...:-) :-) Bill Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:36:43 -0600 From: David Cato <dcato at neosoft.com> Subject: Firkins yeast Thanks to the Boston Homebrew Competition, I got a some vials of yeast from the Saccharomyces Supply Company. One of the vials is labeled "Firkins AB70 English Ale". Does anyone have any info on this yeast and what I can expect from it? - -- David Cato Houston, Texas Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:58:30 -0700 From: "Robert J. Waddell" <rjw at dimensional.com> Subject: Re: Chitosan? Here is a site with info on chitosan. Looks like it could be used as a fining. Sorry, I deleted the HBD that had the name of the person wanting this info, so I'll put it here in case anyone else is interested. http://user.chollian.net/~chitin/intro.html Good Brewin' Bob I *L*O*V*E* my [Pico] system. 'Cept for that gonging noise it makes when my wife throws it off the bed at night. Women... --Pat Babcock It's never too late to have a happy childhood! **************************************************************** RJW at dimensional.com / Opinions expressed are usually my own but Robert J. Waddell / perhaps shared. ICQ #7136012 Owner & Brewmaster: Barchenspeider Brew-Haus Longmont, Colorado **************************************************************** (4,592 feet higher than Jeff Renner) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 20:15:51 -0800 From: Kyle Druey <druey at ibm.net> Subject: Dispensing Pressure I had a discussion recently with a local beer distributor regarding dispensing beer from faucets/taps. He said that he typically plumbs a beer dispensing line with 3/8" inside diameter tubing (no friction losses). For the last 5' to the faucet he uses 3/16" diameter beverage line with a dispensing pressure at 12 psi. Something interesting he mentioned, Miller and Bud are dispensed at 12 psi and need 5' of 3/16" tubing, but Coors is dispensed at 14 psi and needs 6' of 3/16" tubing. News flash from the Midwest: I just saw a preview in Fred Garvin's kraft korner for the Fred Garvin Productions Manufacturing Company Adjustable Roller Malt Mill which sports the following features: -accomodates any gap spacing -variable speed drive to suit your own cranking speed -continuous duty for those all night sessions -self lubricating assembly -easy clean up -KY dispenser option Kyle Dispensing better beer in Bakersfield, CA, West Coast branch of the Fred Garvin Institure for Yocto Zymurgical Studies Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 00:22:02 -0500 From: ensmingr at npac.syr.edu Subject: formulas for alcohol determination AJ made an interesting post in the March 8 HBD 2972 [ http://www.hbd.org/hbd/archive/2972.html#2972-12 ] on the "Accuracy of Formulas" for determining the alcohol level of beer, which I've just read because of being out'a town. However, I must mention a few points. 1. AJ attributes formula "a" (ABV = [OG-FG]/0.75) from my post@ HBD 2968 [ http://hbd.org/hbd/archive/2968.html#2968-16 ] to me. But, as mentioned in this post, the equation comes from Dave Miller (The Complete Handbook of Home Brewing, 1988, page 150). I assume Miller got it from another source, but he doesn't give a reference. 2. The Balling method AJ gives in HBD 2969 [ http://www.hbd.org/hbd/archive/2969.html#2969-5 ] appears to differ from the Balling method given by George Fix several years ago in HBD 880 [ http://www.hbd.org/hbd/archive/880.html#880-9 ]: ABW = [P(initial) - RE]/[2.0665 - 0.010665*P(initial)] 3. I compared the Balling method given by G. Fix in HBD 880; the Balling method given by AJ in HBD 2969; and Miller's method given by me in HBD 2968 by using AJ's "typical" beer which was OG 1.050 and FG 1.012. All SG-Plato conversions were according to the ACBC MOA Table 1: Balling method #1 (Fix, HBD 880) RE=0.1808*P(initial)+0.8192*P(initial)=0.1808*12.39+0.8192*3.067=4.752 ABW=[12.39-4.752]/[2.0665-0.010665*12.39]=3.949 ABV=ABW*FG/0.79=3.949*1.012/0.79=5.058% Balling method #2 (AJ, HBD 2969) ABV=4.85% Miller method (Ensminger, HBD 2968) ABV=(1.050-1.012)/0.75=0.05067=5.067% I have not seen the original papers with the (apparently contradictory) Balling equations. Nor have I seen the data used to derive these equations. Perhaps AJ or someone else with ready access to the brewing literature could reconcile these discrepancies and enlighten us. Cheerio! Peter A. Ensminger Syracuse, NY Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:47:34 -0500 From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net> Subject: 100 Gallon Limit 100 gallons is about 40 cases of beer. Here are three other suggestions for better utilization of that limit. 1. Use some of the limit to make Wine, Higher ABV, lasts longer. 2. Make a lot of Barley Wine. Again, higher alcohol, lasts longer 3. Drink all of the evidence and say you made a lot of Barley Wine. Kind of like the bag limit of catching fish. Once you eat 'em, who's gonna know. Besides, has anyone ever had a revenue agent knocking on your door with a warrant saying you made too much beer last year. It's not like wine where you could have a cellar full of wine from previous years. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 05:00:28 -0800 (PST) From: Steve Jackson <stvjackson at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: IBU standard... In HBD #2979 (March 16, 1999), D.B. Metallo (dbmetallo at wwisp.com) wrote: >>> I was wondering - which is considered the IBU "standard" gauge - Garetz, Rager, or Tinseth? Who's numbers do the AHA and/or the BJCP use? I asked a few people in the local club around here and they didn't seem to know. Thanks. <<< The short answer would be, "None of the above." Each formula is simply an attempt to *estimate* the IBUs in a given beer. Each formula makes different assumptions about such factors as hop utilization, therefore they typically come up with different predictions for the same hop bill. The only way to truly know the true IBU of any beer is to have it assayed by a laboratory. This is how the commercial breweries do it (many of them have their own equipment for doing so). One of the many interesting elements of the HBD Palexperiment that has been discussed here and is the subject of an article in the current issue of Brewing Techniques is how far off the prediction formulas are. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but the average IBU of the 30 or so Palexperiment beers was around 63 or so (give or take). The various formulas all came up short to various degrees, the closest being about a dozen points off. Interestingly, one formula you didn't mention (the one Ray Daniels uses in his book "Designing Great Beers") came the closest to the actual IBU level. The approach I've always recommended regarding IBU formulas is this: Pick one and stick with it. It doesn't matter how accurate or how inaccurate it is, as long as it allows you to consistently predict the bitterness of *your* beer. It doesn't really matter if the formula predicts an IBU of 350 (of course it does in terms of offering comparisons with other brewers' beers, but I'm making a point here), as long as you know that 350 yields a certain level of bitterness in your beer. For instance, I know that 40 IBU from the formula I use yields appropriate bitterness for a standard pale ale. I have no idea what the actual IBU level is, but I know that it tastes "right." That's all you really need an IBU formula for, so that's why I say pick one and stick with it. BTW, I believe the AHA/BJCP IBU numbers are based on the actual levels in commercial beers the various styles are intended to emulate. There are a few people lurking around here on the style committees for the organizations, so if I'm wrong, please jump in and correct me. -Steve in Indianapolis _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:10:07 -0500 From: "ajphoto" <ajphoto at columbus.rr.com> Subject: Local HB R.I.P. Goodale Homebrewing Supply in Columbus, Ohio is passing into oblivion. After almost four years of business the owner has decided to call it quits. Internet sales and the decline in new brewers has made it impossible to continue. We have noticed that once a customer becomes comfortable with partial mashes or all grain brewing they reach a point where they no longer need the help of the local shop. They log-on with credit card in hand and forget all about those who took the time and talked them through their first brew, just so they can save a few pennies per pound. It does not matter to them that it cost money to have someone there when they needed help, or is there for their convenience. We know this to be the case because when they do stop in, they openly brag to each other about the deals they got at (Local demise .com). Gone now is the place where customers used to hang out and discuss recipes, processes, and equipment. You know - Brewing! This local brewshop used to be a place that supported homebrewing, but without support in return from those it nurtured we all lose. Goodbye Goodale! Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:32:52 -0500 From: John Varady <rust1d at usa.net> Subject: Westvleteren Yeast / Bulk Buy I received a vial of Westvleteren yeast as a prize from the Saccharomyces Supply Company in MA. I have never had a beer from this abbey and therefore have no idea of the profile of the strain. I decided to give it a try and am using it to ferment 4 gallons of wit (I also pitched 3944 in the other 11 gallons). The starter was up in running in 15 hours and after pitched the 4 gallons were at krausen after 12 hours. I plan on making a tripel this weekend and pitching the dregs from the wit. Is this yeast appropriate for a tripel (or a wit)? On a side note, For my wit, I was going to pitch some soured beer into the kettle. I tried to sour some pilsner by adding a few grains of malt, but AJ's post about making acetic acid instead of lactic acid put me off. So instead, I decided to sour 2 pints of wort by adding some malt. This seemed to work ok. The aroma was definitely sour after a few days on my radiator. I dumped it into the kettle and we'll see how it fares. - -- If a group of home brewers go the back door route and bulk buy outside of the shop, the shop owner can rest assured that these brewers will be making a lot of beer in the future. This means they will need more yeast, more hops, more bottles, more caps, etc. Where will they bulk buy these items? Most likely they won't, and they'll be getting them from the local shop owner. One thing a shop owner could do, is to organize the bulk buy. Rather then being cut out of the loop, start the loop off. Make bi-monthly (or bi-annual) bulk purchases available to the customers. Require that they advance order at least 100 lbs and perhaps discount normal prices by 25-30%. This way everybody is happy. The shop owner still makes some profit and can order more then they could normally stock knowing that it is already sold. The home brewer gets his malt cheaper and doesn't feel the need to hunt down the bargain prices at other sources. Later John John Varady The HomeBrew Recipe Calculating Program Boneyard Brewing Custom Neon Beer Signs For Home Brewers Glenside, PA Get More Information At: rust1d at usa.net http://www.netaxs.com/~vectorsys/varady Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:06:20 -0600 (CST) From: Joel Plutchak <plutchak at ncsa.uiuc.edu> Subject: Re: backdoor dealings In HBD #2979, "Robert C. McDonald" <Bob.McDonald at abanet.org> wrote: >I've been an extract brewer for about 6 years, and apropos the recent >thread on homebrew shops (thanks, Pat, I couldn't have written it better >myself), I'd like to get away from the high prices, inconvenience and >pompous attitude of my (barely) local homebrew shop... We've seen a Devil's Advocate argument from the homebrew shop perspective, so let me weigh in on the side of the Angels, using Bob's passage above as a starting point. (Add emoticon if necessary.) In the past 15 years, I've lived in 5 different cities. One of those cities (Madison WI) had (has, I assume) a good homebrew shop. They got me started brewing, and I bought all my stuff from them. When I moved from there, I encountered either no local shops, or places that were at best as Bob describes above. Small selection of badly stored hops, soft grain of indeterminate age and >100% markup, extract of dubious quality, clerks who either didn't know brewing or didn't know me so were uninterested in talking to me (or even pointedly rude in one Rhode Island shop). The point is that this is a big continent, and I'd wager that most of us don't live within an hour's drive of a homebrew shop worthy of giving our business to. So what do we do? Buy from the middle of the distribution chain, or from breweries. Keep our own yeast banks. Fashion our own hardware. And support mailorder shops, which incidentally usually *are* local to somebody, just not to us (I've got my favorites if anyone wants to email me for 'em). If those outlets were to be closed to me, I would simply brew less often, and drink less beer. It's not a zero-sum game. Needless to say, I weigh in with Pat on this issue. Shops have got to cater to their (potential) customers. If they don't, they'll go the way of any other business that doesn't offer what the customer is willing to buy. - -- Joel "Backdoor Man" Plutchak <plutchak at uiuc.edu> Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:28:21 -0600 From: Eddie Kent <ebk1 at earthlink.net> Subject: Homebrew & Longevity This is something I think all homebrewers could appreciate: World's Oldest Person? IKINU, Kenya (Reuters) - A woman in Kenya's Central Province could be the oldest person in the world, according to her family, who say she is 143. If the family's claims are to be believed, Njoki Wainaina was born more than 15 years before Livingstone met Stanley. Certainly Njoki, who lives in a village north of Nairobi, looks as though she could be 143, with her wizened face and tiny, birdlike frame. She can no longer see, and can hear only with difficulty, but still manages to command center stage among her family as she sings songs and recalls scenes from her life. Njoki attributes her long life to God. ``Who else could make me live this long? It is God who has made me live,'' she told Reuters. Her longevity may have been helped by her simple diet, which includes bananas, maize, orange squash and HOME-BREWED BEER. And she seems to have got away with her weakness for taking snuff. Italian anthropologist Giovanni Perucci studies aging among Njoki's ethnic group, the Kikuyu. He has met her several times and said it was possible she was 140 or even older. But since she possesses no birth certificate, Njoki is unlikely ever to be officially recognized as older than Jeanne Calment of France, who died last year at 122. - -- Eddie Kent Houston, TX "When the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem begins to look like a nail." -Maslow Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:32:48 -0500 From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com> Subject: CST problems Elijah Daniel asks about his funky problems with his copper scrubby thing (CST). There are CSTs on the market that aren't solid copper, they are copper plated steel. These variety react the way described, the copper erodes and leaves the steel exposed for rusting. The only solid copper ones commonly available in supermarkets are clearly named "ChoreBoy", these have a long lifetime and are no more reactive than other copper in your system. (no affiliation or financial interest yadda yadda...) N.P. (Del) Lansing, centrally located light-years to the right of the leftist-pinko-hippie Hill-Billy administration. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:45:24 -0500 From: "Nix, Andrew" <anix at bechtel.com> Subject: Cleaning Carboys In the continual effort to improve my brewing process and beer quality, I again present a rather remedial question to the HBD. My concern here is CLEANING carboys, not sanitizing. To sanitize, I use a weak to mid-strength BTF Iodophor "tea" and leave it in the carboy with a rubber stopper on top till I need to use the carboy again. (If anyone sees a problem with this, let me know) I have two carboys at home that had beer left in them for many several months, and the krausen residue was stuck to the sides for this time as well. The carboy brush I have now just doesn't seem to do a good job (not enough "elbow grease" can be applied). I do use a jet bottle/carboy washer, but I still have that feeling that I haven't really gotten it very clean. How does everyone out there scrub the inside of their carboys??? What detergents to you use??? Thanks... Andrew C. Nix Frederick, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:14:45 -0800 From: Bryan Gros <bryang at xeaglex.com> Subject: scrubbys Elijah Daniel <Elijah.Daniel at digital.com> writes: >Hi, all. >I recently put a spigot on my enamel-on-steel brewpot (anyone who's >interested in details is free to email me directly). Inside the pot, I have >a Copper Scrubby Thing (CST) for washing dishes which I attached to the dip >tube with a hose clamp (stainess steel?) for a filter. I ran water through >the system a couple of times, and it worked great. >So here's my problem: I just noticed that the CST produces nasty orange >goop. It seems that when its left sitting around wet, little pieces of >copper flake off and make this very metallic smelling slime. ... Maybe those CSTs aren't 100% copper? Try a Stainless Scrubby (SSS). Should work better. What I did was get a small piece of stainless steel screen. Roll about a 12 inch by 5 inch piece up into a tube and clamp it to your spigot. Makes a great filter. I think others have termed this filter "easymasher". ******* Dan Listermann writes: >When I took up homebrewing again, it was difficult to find interesting, >inexpensive and most of all, fresh beers in the States. The micro brew >revolution has changed all this. It is now possible to find very >interesting, inexpensive and, if you are carefull where you buy it, fresh >beers. Well, I'm not sure i agree with the inexpensive part. - Bryan Bryan Gros Oakland CA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:26:41 -0800 From: "RANDY ERICKSON" <RANDYE at mid.org> Subject: Extract CAP Recipes After my post on extract/partial mash recipes for CAP last week, I came across the Zymurgy article on Pre-Prohibition lagers this week-end. Someone, Del Lansing as I recall, advocates using two 4# cans of Premiere Reserve Cream Ale (a hopped canned extract kit, presumably) along with some noble-type flavor and finishing hops mid- and end-of-boil. A good lager yeast is important, and I still advocate an American strain like 2035. I am not affiliated with Premiere Reserve, I've never used their kits, nor have I even seen one (outside of adds in a magazine I no longer subscribe to). Randy in Modesto Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:43:14 -0800 From: Ted McIrvine <McIrvine at ix.netcom.com> Subject: Split Session Brewing I have often split my brewing session into two parts as well, but I usually do this by boiling (or more accurately, simmering at a slow boil) overnight. I only do this for darker beers in which I want a Mailliard reaction (Belgian Dubbel, German Doppelbock, Scotch Ales etc.) and then top off the water the next morning to a correct volume before adding finishing hops. I think that it is possibile for an unboiled wort to pick up some lactic nasties if left overnight. Sure, you'll kill the growth potential of the bugs by boiling them, but the sourness and bugs get a chance to do their thing in the unboiled wort around 130-140 degrees and boiling won't remove this. (The effects might be similar to the sour mash technique that some brewers use for lambic, wit, and Guinness-style stout.) Ted > From: Greg Remake <gremake at gsbalum.uchicago.edu> > Subject: Split session brewing > > As I saw suggested in the HBD, I tried splitting my brewing session into > two parts this weekend, and it was a great success. Even with a late start > on Friday night, I still got to bed at a reasonable time after mashing and > sparging, then boiled the wort and filled the primary on Saturday morning .... > My only question is in regards to the appropriate temperature at which to > keep the wort overnight. Are there any problems with letting it sit on the > stove (like I did), or is there a benefit to cooling it and keeping it > chilled until the boil? - -- McIrvine at Ix.Netcom.Com College of Staten Island/CUNY http://www.csi.cuny.edu/academia/programs/mus.html http://www.csi.cuny.edu/arts/calendar.html Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:46:00 -0800 From: "RANDY ERICKSON" <RANDYE at mid.org> Subject: New Orleans Friends in Brewdom: I've been traveling on business off and on for fifteen years, and SOP has been in-and-out for a meeting, in-and-out of a factory, etc. As a rule the travel has been goal-oriented, without much of a chance to see the sights. I was thrilled therefore to find out that I get to go to New Orleans for a convention next month for a whole week! I expect to have a good deal of free time. I'll be staying downtown on St Charles Av, not far from the French Quarter. I would appreciate any thoughts or information anyone might have on don't-miss beer places. I will be limited to public transportation. Thanks, Randy in Modesto Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:58:18 -0800 From: jim williams <jim&amy at macol.net> Subject: never done a mead or a pLambic for that matter... hi, so i've never done a mead before. Thinking of doing one. i don't know much about it, and I want to do it right. I'm more than willing to take the time it takes etc.... i'm looking for idiot proof directions on making a high quality mead. i'm also interested in making a plambic in the near future, This one i've researched quite a bit. i'd love recipe's/input on mead and plambic. I'm not interested in adding fruit to either, and would like a still mead. I may be moving in 6 mos. or so. If I have a mead and or pLambic in a fermentor at this time, is it the going to hurt to move it? I know that the pellicle in a Plambic should not be disturbed. It will definately be disturbed if I have to move it to another city! TIA, jim Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:16:53 -0800 (PST) From: Alan Edwards <ale at cisco.com> Subject: crush Joe Rolfe wrote: | Once you "see" good crush - you just know if it is good enuff or not. | The more likely reason for crappy extract or batch to batch | inconsistency, (outside of normal boundaries what ever that works out | to for the beers you brew with your equipment) is old, stale or | otherwise mishandled (many hands are touching this before you in most | cases) malt. The next would be poor lautering, followed by pH/temp | control, then i'll buy into the crush. I second that!! The *perfect* crush is way down the list of things to worry about and tweak in order to get great beer or the ultimate extraction rate. IN FACT, some of us have completely forgone the search for the ultimite extraction rate in favor of better beer! So PLEASE, PLEASE stop the bickering over who's malt crushing device is the best! There IS NO perfect crush for every possible lautering system. I bought the mill that the homebrew store owner recommended, based on his return rate! Talk to your HB store owners. (Turned out to be Listerman's, if you are interested, but that is one guy, and one HB store owner's data point...your mileage may vary...caveat emptor...not valid in some states...yadda yadda yadda.) -Alan in Fremont, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 12:29:24 -0500 From: Rick Raver <jed at cyberia.com> Subject: Re: Where to get 6oz bottles for barleywine For those living in the North East, you can get returnable bottles of Rolling Rock in the 7 oz. size. They are green, so they have to be kept far away from light, but they have worked quite well for me in the past. I have used them for barleywine and belgian stong ales. I know the owner of a local beer distributor (that's right, you have to go to a distributor in PA) that sold me a few cases for the price of the deposit ($1.50 per case, I think). If anyone is having trouble finding them and is willing to drive to South-Central PA, I can pick some up. They will not be clean, in fact mine were pretty darn disgusting. Rick - -- Rick Raver, Physicist mailto:jed at cyberia.com York Cancer Center, PA http://www.cyberia.com/pages/jed/ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 12:41 -0800 From: "George De Piro" <George_De_Piro at berlex.com> Subject: Response to interesting Wheat beer questions Hi all, Dave Humes posted some interesting questions about Bavarian-style wheat beers back in HBD 2972. My life has been somewhat hectic as of late, which is why I am only now responding. I have quoted liberally from Dave's post since it appeared in the digest so many days ago. Dave asks: "Does resting briefly at 55C, as opposed to no rest in the temperature range of protein degrading enzymes, help encourage haze formation? I would think you would get the most haze from no protein rest at all." To which I say: According to Wolfgang Kunze, it is the medium-sized proteins that are most responsible for haze formation, so I figured that a rest at 55C (131F) would help to increase the beer's haze potential while not tremendously hurting its heading ability. I think that the larger proteins are more readily coagulated during the boil and thus removed from the wort. The medium-sized proteins remain to produce chill haze. This idea is not quite spelled out by Kunze, but seems like a reasonable extrapolation of his text. As I stated in my recipe, someday I will try this brew with no protein rest and see what happens. Dave then asks: "Also, if the idea with a hefe weizen is to enourage haze formation and retain significant preteinaceous matter to support the rich frothy head we expect, then it would also seem to be beneficial to limit the length of the boil. Eric Warner suggests boil times from 90 to 120 minutes due to the high level of coabulable protein in a weissbier wort. This might make sense for a crystal weizen, but maybe the boil should be shortened for a hefe weizen." I respond: Hmmm. Here is the paradox of wheat beers: You want protein for body, head, and haze, yet it is desirable to remove it for certain reasons, too. Some of the reasons for protein removal are uncertain to me; Brewers sometimes say, "Too much protein can affect the stability of the beer." In what way? I know that it can lead to colloidal stability problems, but in a Weizen this isn't an issue. In what other ways do high protein levels effect a beer's stability? One concern for many commercial Weizen brewers is that of filterability. The young Weizenbier is filtered to remove the top-fermenting yeast strain which is then replaced by a lager strain. Although the pore size of the filter is relatively large (yeast are removed by a 5 micron filter), excessive proteins would still reduce the life of the filter. That is not usually a concern for the small brewer. Another reason to promote hot break formation is that these large proteins can inhibit fermentation by physically blocking the yeast membrane from absorbing nutrients. This idea is discussed in both Kunze's book _Technology Brewing and Malting_ (p. 292) and Warner's book _Koelsch_ (p. 71). Keep in mind that the longer boil will have effects other than protein coagulation. The flavor will be altered by the long boil, the color deepened, and more DMS will be formed and driven off, reducing the chances of any DMS being carried over to the beer. Despite the large proportion of Pils malt in many Weizenbiers, DMS is never a prominent flavor component. Dave continues: "An interesting article I came across on the web talks about how the Shephed Neame brewery in the UK formulated a hefe weizen to be brewed using traditional British infusion mashing techniques. It can be found at http://www.breworld.com/the_grist/9804/gr2.html. A few interesting points to be found there are the recommended pitching rate of 0.5 million cells per ml per degree Plato and the storage temperature (prior to packaging) of 18C, which was intentionally high to discourage protein loss as chill haze. Is underpitching weisbier worts typical practice to help encourage ester formation? Is cold conditioning typically avoided to help retain the haze and body supporting proteins?" Back to me: I read his article and take issue with a number of things in it. First, the pitching rate is pretty low, but on the other hand, so is the pitching rate for my Weizenbier, so maybe that is OK. The thing that really bugged me in this article was the mention of the desirability of oxygen at bottling time. The author claims that this is necessary to support yeast growth and ensure a sound bottle fermentation. To this I boldly say, "Poppycock!" Why? 1. Yeast growth is not desirable at bottling time. 2. The yeast may not use all of the headspace air, anyway. 3. Keeping the beer warm for a week with oxygen present is really going to hurt the shelf life (see Fix's Dec. Brewing Techniques article about oxidation; 5 days 'til staleness if the aerated beer is kept warm). As far as the warm conditioning step in the bottle being employed to prevent the loss of chill haze, I say: Once the beer is bottled, any chill haze that forms and settles will simply become resuspended (and redissolved) upon shipping and warming. It ain't gonna stay settled. In fact, repeated chilling/warming will actually speed the formation of permanent haze in the beer, which would be seemingly desirable in the style. My guess is that warm conditioning is used to speed the carbonation of the beer and allow them to move the product out the door more quickly. The warm temperature may effect the flavor, too, but it will also speed staling reactions. I have tried warm conditioning my bottled Weizens (30C) and have compared the result to bottles from the same batch that were kept cooler (no higher than 65F (18.3C). The beer in the warm bottles tastes pretty similar to the cool ones (although I don't have notes with me). I never kept the warm-conditioned beers around long enough to determine their shelf life. I used warm conditioning purely to speed the carbonation process. Hopefully this post has answered some questions, and will provoke discussion about the unanswered ones. I can't believe that after all this time the mill thread is still going strong... Have fun! George de Piro (Nyack, NY) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:40:40 EST From: WayneM38 at aol.com Subject: Subject: 100 Gallon limit broken! dont do it On: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 06:46:12 EST DakBrew at aol.com laments: >>>>WayneM38 at aol.com sez.... >>>>Then there is that 100 gal limit........ >>>Tha one's easy: just get married! It doubles it!See ya! >>>Pat Babcock in SE Michigan >>Don't do it Wayne The rule is 200 GL for a 2 adult Household. I take this to >>mean Girlfriend, Roommate, or anyone as long as there are 2 adults residing in >>the house. >>No need to potentially ruin your life for 100 GL of beer per year. Pat and DakBrew: If I would ever get married 'again', custody of my RIMS will certainly be covered in the prenuptual agreement!!! Cheers! Wayne Big Fun Brewing (100 Gals. in) Milwaukee Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:39:46 -0500 From: Gary_H_Nazelrod at tst.tracor.com (Gary H Nazelrod) Subject: Dutch Oud Bruin Some years ago I had a bottle of Dutch Oud Bruin. I have never seen this style in the US. It is a low alcohol beer ~2.4%v, it is fairly sweet. I do not remember if hops are noticeable or not. It is dark. Does anyone have any insight as how to make one of these? What ingredients? How to achieve the sweetness? Now, after I make a Dutch Oud Bruin (assuming I get some answers), what category do I enter it in a contest? Gary Nazelrod Silver Spring MD (way far west of Jeff, but closer to the east) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:15:47 From: "William W. Macher" <macher at telerama.lm.com> Subject: Purging with steam... Hi everyone! Related to my steam-injected RIMS adventure (system almost brew ready) I came up with an idea that might be of some benefit to my process, as an HSA reduction measure. I would like to pass it by the collective as I have not heard of anyone doing it... Would using a gentle blanket of steam to purge air from the boiling kettle, when either filling it from the mash tun, or while the hot wort sits there waiting to be pumped through my counter flow chiller, make any sense? I got this idea after remembering my high school science teacher demonstrating atmospheric pressure, by putting some water inside one of those box-shaped gallon tin cans and heating it over a bunsen burner. After the steam started coming out of the opening, he put the cap back on and set the can aside. As it cooled and the steam condensed, atmospheric air pressure crushed the can...so steam can displace air! What I am thinking is that since I have a source of steam, I could have a constant gentle flow of steam going into the boil kettle, above the surface of the wort. If I adjust the flow correctly, this would keep air away from the wort. I realize that I would need to be careful not to do it in a fashion that could actually suck air into the kettle. Would there be any REAL benefit, or am I stretching the rubber band a bit too tight? Bill Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:13:58 -0500 From: Stephen Klump <StephenKlump at compuserve.com> Subject: Barleywine bottles On Mon, 15 Mar 1999 in HBD #2978, Thomas Murray wrote: > Does anyone know of a source for 6oz bottles. It's about time to bottle my > barleywine. As a brewer of strong old ales, imperial russian stouts and barleywines, i have wrestled with this problem. (You just hate to toss out half of a 12 oz-er...) A local homebrew shop sells (with ski mask on) 7oz bottles for ca $1 each! If you are willing to "expand" your requirements to 8oz, Coca Cola comes in "antique" (clear) bottles which you can find at most Target stores or even local grocery stores (kroger). Some might raise a flag over the clear aspect of the bottles, but I find that by not leaving my beer in a window or under bright lights, skunk potential is minimized. (Besides, how many brown glass carbouys are out there?) I hope this helps. Cheers! Stephen stephenklump at compuserve.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:27:41 -0600 From: John.Wilkinson at aud.alcatel.com (John Wilkinson) Subject: RE: Split session brewing Greg Remake asked how some of us handle split session brewing. When I do it I boil the wort for 10-15 minutes, cover it, and come back the next day. I boil it to try to kill any nasties that might work overnight to produce off flavors. I can't back up my procedure with scientific justification but it seems it seems right to me. John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:08:41 -0500 From: "Santerre, Peter (PRS) - CPC" <PRS at NA2.US.ML.COM> Subject: Split Session Brewing Greg Remake <gremake at gsbalum.uchicago.edu> tried this: "...I tried splitting my brewing session into two parts this weekend, and it was a great success. Even with a late start on Friday night, I still got to bed at a reasonable time after mashing and sparging, then boiled the wort and filled the primary on Saturday morning (after squeezing in a charity pancake breakfast)..." I was just curious about the possibility of your wort going sour in that time. I know my roommate and I are not always the most motivated people when it comes to cleaning out the mash tun - and when we wait until the next day to do it that grain is sure reeky and sour smelling. Does this happen to unboiled wort as well, or is it just the grain that turns sour? I guess this question also applies to the extended mash durations as well. If you leave your mash sitting in your tun overnight, wont it be sour by the morning? Peter Santerre San Francisco Tech Support & SERMA Specialist Return to table of contents
[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]
HTML-ized on 03/17/99, by HBD2HTML version 1.2 by K.F.L.
webmaster at hbd.org, KFL, 10/9/96