HOMEBREW Digest #3000 Fri 09 April 1999

[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]

		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Sparging theory (John S Thompson)
  re: broken thermometer (Lou.Heavner)
  Big brew (Jeremy B. Pugh)
  Thanks for info, 1tier RIMS (dolmans)
  dry stouts & oysters (jim williams)
  Brew Tour ("Pat Galvin")
  SS/Chlorine (Dave Burley)
  Dr. Pivo's diacetyl and other diones (Dave Burley)
  Rice CAP ("Chuck Mryglot")
  BT article... (pbabcock)
  Dave Humes/Ringwood Yeast ("Jim B Verlinde")
  Planting Finished!  & You Spell Harrington - I Spell Herrington (Dan Listermann)
  Short mash. (Joe Rolfe)
  BT and Murphy's (John Adsit)
  Re: Planting Time (Jonathan Peakall)
  diacetyl redux (sic) (smurman)
  Shorter Sacc. Rest (Bill Graham)
  Slow sparge/protein rest with DWC Pils (Ted McIrvine)
  Aeration with Oxygen (Joy Hansen)
  Mash time (Dave Burley)
  RE: Murphys/Heineken connection (John Wilkinson)
  A Newbie Brewer Question/ and a question of my own ("Crossno, Glyn")
  European imports (Bryan Gros)
  Sam Adams Spring Ale clone? (David A Bradley)
  planting time... ("Phil Uecker")

Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! Enter the Spirit of Free Beer! Competition 5/22/99. Details at http://burp.org/SoFB99. 2000 MCAB Qualifier! Enter the Buzz-Off! Competition 6/26/99. Details on the HBD Competition Calendar for June 1999 (http://hbd.org). 2000 MCAB qualifier! Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org. **SUBSCRIBE AND UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS MUST BE SENT FROM THE E-MAIL ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!** IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, the autoresponder and the SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE commands will fail! Contact brewery at hbd.org for information regarding the "Cat's Meow" Back issues are available via: HTML from... http://hbd.org Anonymous ftp from... ftp://hbd.org/pub/hbd/digests ftp://ftp.stanford.edu/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer AFS users can find it under... /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer COPYRIGHT for the Digest as a collection is currently held by hbd.org (Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen). Digests in their entirity CANNOT be reprinted/reproduced without this entire header section unless EXPRESS written permission has been obtained from hbd.org. Digests CANNOT be reprinted or reproduced in any format for redistribution unless said redistribution is at absolutely NO COST to the consumer. COPYRIGHT for individual posts within each Digest is held by the author. Articles cannot be extracted from the Digest and reprinted/reproduced without the EXPRESS written permission of the author. The author and HBD must be attributed as author and source in any such reprint/reproduction. (Note: QUOTING of items originally appearing in the Digest in a subsequent Digest is exempt from the above. Home brew clubs NOT associated with organizations having a commercial interest in beer or brewing may republish articles in their newsletters and/or websites provided that the author and HBD are attributed. ASKING first is still a great courtesy...) JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:58:35 -0500 (CDT) From: John S Thompson <jthomp6 at unix1.sncc.lsu.edu> Subject: Sparging theory Hello collective HBDers. I am curious to know if anyone has certain techniques that maximize (or increase) sugar extraction from a converted mash. I use an insulated Gott-type cooler, mash in around 152F, let sit for 90 minutes, acidify the mash & sparge water, etc., and generally only get 70-75% extraction. When I sparge, I circulate the first runnings SLOWLY to set the filter bed. Then I draw these off as I add the first batch of sparge water. Generally, I sparge in "increments" -- drawing off one batch and then adding anouther, drawing off that weaker batch and adding another, etc., until I've obtained the quantity I need to boil (six gallons or so that boil down to five). Would a continuous sparge (or any other tips for that matter) help my efficiency? adthanksvance John Thompson LSU Department of Economics Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:11:11 -0500 From: Lou.Heavner at frco.com Subject: re: broken thermometer Rich Moore <cinnamon at erinet.com> writes: >>>> Jeffrey S. Favrizio wrote: " ... I put on the kettle to boil and put the thermometer into the kettle to check the temp. It is one of the glass floating types. Unfortunately, when I went to remove the thermometer, I noticed that it had broken ... Has anyone else had this happen to them, because I feel really dumb!" There is at least one other dumb person out there. I've had this happen twice with floating thermometers (in my HLT). I can't answer your questions about contaminating the wort, but I was wondering if anyone has come up with something to protect the fragile bottoms of these thermometers. There must be some gadgeteer out there with a solution. <<<< How are ya'll breaking them? If it is from letting the bottom hit the kettle when the level falls, try wrapping the ubiquitous copper choreboy to the bottom as padding. You might also add a small chunk of styrofoam to the top in case the top hits the side of the kettle. Just don't cover the temperature scale so you can still read it. It should still float, but you may have to play with it a bit if the added weight causes it to sink too deep. Cheers! Lou H - Austin, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 12:06:34 -0600 From: jpugh at hjnews.com (Jeremy B. Pugh) Subject: Big brew In #2998 Brian Rezac posted Big Brew information. He wrote: "Last year, we had one Big Brew site that had three television stations covering their all-day event that included brewing, raffles, a children's coloring contest and more." I was intrigued by the concept but am sad to report that Utah homebrewers will be unable to participate, at least on a large scale. There will be no media event in Utah. Just secret homebrew clubs gathering behind closed doors and drawn shades. Utah, which for the most part is a great place to live, never really got over prohibition. Hell, sometimes I think our mucky-mucks would like to reinstate that fiasco. Liquor laws in here, while not as stiff as some locales in the bible belt, are somewhat inconvienient. Everytime an out-of-state friend visits me I have to conduct an impromptu seminar on all of the quirks of Utah's alchaolic beverage control laws. For the record, you can get a decent beer here, it is not as watered down and weak as the rumors say. Utah caps tavern and grocery store alcholol sales at 3.2% BY WEIGHT. Other states allow 6% percent by VOLUME. Two entirely different measurements. Beers or beverages that exeed that limit can be purchased in liquor stores and private clubs, which are a whole other story. We have many quality microbrews and one of the largest, Uintah, makes a hoppy red ale called Cuthroat that is my staple. They also make a smooth drinking pale lager called Whiptail that I have been moderately succeful in trying to emulate. BUt I digress. Although it is legal to purchase homebrew supplies, (you can't outlaw grain), it is illegal to put all those yummy ingredients together into an alcholic beverage with out the proper liscencing, which for the small scale homebrewers operate is prohibative. You can make a five gallon batch of green jello and serve it to friends, you can even make it with vodka but a five gallon batch of beer is unlawful. My brother actually was charged with unlawful production of alhahol after his house burned down and police found a burbling, smokey batch of brew in the ashes. The charges were eventually dropped but anyway I am wondering about other state's liquor laws, specfically homebrew laws. I would also like to encourage any Utah brewers on the list to write thier legislators. Perhaps some of the wizards on the list can provide some ammunition to justify legalizing homebrewing in Utah. I will stress that I am not talking about a huge ad campaign or anything. Most Utah homebrewers I know try not to draw a lot of attention to their hobby and realistically it is tolerated. Like a prohibition speak easy. But few letters to a legislator would at least draw some attention to the matter. During last year's legislative session in Salt Lake City the matter was brought up and although the propenent's bill was defeated there was a healthy debate on the matter (search for "homebrew" in the Salt Lake Tribune's archive at www.saltlaketribune.com). And have fun with your big brew celebrations, which are a great idea. Jeremy B. Pugh Logan, Utah Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 14:09:16 +0000 From: dolmans at mail.tss.net Subject: Thanks for info, 1tier RIMS Hello Collective I posted about a week ago with some questions regarding pumps and ideas for a one tier RIMS system. The response was overwhelming and I just wanted to say thanks to all those who were kind enough to write me here in the forum or privately. For those who are interested here are the conclusions that I have come to for a 10 gallon all grain system that must be kept compact and portable. I will actually go with a two tier system mounting my sparge tank up high to spare the expense of a second pump and the associated plumbing. Quick question how high should I mount the sparge tank above the mash/lauter tun? The mash/lauter tun and boil kettle will be on one level and I will use a pump to move the wort from one to the other. I will use a lauter grant to catch the wort as it comes out of the lauter tun and utilise a float switch to run the pump. This means a little extra work for me (in the building) but I think that it will be well worth it. After boiling I will use the pump to move the wort through a hopback and into a couterflow chiller. Now that the plans have been drawn up I will continue to scrounge materials. I have two converted kegs and will soon get a third. The pump has been ordered and I will start construction of the false bottom this weekend (the batteries for the drill are charged up). A friend has the angle iron and promises to weld it all together when I am good and ready. In order to simplify construction, cleaning and fittings all plumbing will be 1/2 inch copper (unless it is strongly recommended that I do otherwise?). Now another question what are the most suitable burners? I have one King Cooker but will need two more burners to make this happen. Any suggestions, I need two that are easy to control one for the sparge tank and one for the mash/lauter tun? Thanks again for everyone's help and the URL's there are some very inventive brewers out there. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 16:58:17 -0800 From: jim williams <jim&amy at macol.net> Subject: dry stouts & oysters Hi, I just thought I'd throw out some more info on the subject. I was in Ireland 6 mos. ago. Guinness is great, don't get me wrong, but this was the 4th trip to Ireland in 10 years, and it is getting blander and blander everytime I go. Towards the end of this trip, I was drinking Guinness from the bottle, which is still quite amazing. I agree with the poster who spoke highly of Beamish. Over the years, I have always enjoyed Beamish also. On top of it being a great beer, it's also the economy stout in Ireland. It is always a good 20-30 p. cheaper than anything else. Murphy's, well, the previous poster who quoted an irishman saying it tasted like bad Guinness, was giving it a compliment. I hate it. To each his own. I cannot end this post without mentioning the Porterhouse Brewing Co. in Dublin. I believe they've been open a couple years now. Owners are card carrying camra members, who truly know a thing about beer. If you want to taste REAL Irish Dry Stout, go to the brewpub in the Temple Bar area and order a Wrasslers 4x stout. This is the best stout I've ever had, if not one of the best beers I've ever had. I can't say enough good things about it. They have an amazing Porter, another stout made with Oysters!, and at the time had a nice cask red ale. Don't waste your time on the "Guinness tour" There is no tour. You go through rooms filled with Guinness propaganda, you get your "free" pint, (you paid to go on the tour). Of course, it ends in the gift shop. Those of you into oysters, they are truly amazing in Ireland. My wife and I had them on 5 separate occasions, with stout, and they were clean, fresh and good. Ireland is an amazing place. Can't wait to go back a 5th time! Jim Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 18:20:05 -0700 From: "Pat Galvin" <Pat_Galvin at ermwest.com> Subject: Brew Tour A message for Northern California HomeBrewers: The DOZErs (Diablo Order of Zymiracle Enthusiasts) of Concord, CA would like to invite Bay Area brewers to join us for our 3rd annual brew tour. The tour is scheduled for Saturday April 17th. We will meet at Sun Valley Mall in Concord and travel in a luxurious motor coach to two microbreweries and a brew pub. First stop is Lagunitas Brewing in Petaluma for a fine tour and tastings. Second stop will be a tour and lunch at the Marin Valley Brewing in Larkspur (Home of the Marin MountainHoppers). Final stop is the Speakeasy microbrewery in San Francisco for yet another tour and tastings. Returning to Concord by about 5 PM. If you don't get enough beer on this tour, you have no one to blame but yourself. Cost is $20 to cover the cost of the bus. Bring some change for lunch and T-shirts, glasses, etc. We're having trouble filling the 40 seats on the bus and would like to invite homebrewers and beer enthusiasts to join us. Please email me at pat_galvin at ermwest.com and I will personally send you a flyer with details. BTW, DOZE is an AHA recognized homebrew club that meets on the last Monday of every month at Beer, Beer, and More Beer in Concord, CA. New members welcome. (no affiliation blah blah blah - I'm the highly-esteemed club president) Cheers Pat Galvin (925) 946-0455 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 22:29:51 -0400 From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: SS/Chlorine Brewsters: Jeff Luck asks why bleach is a no no with stainless steel and is contemplating an enamel sink as an alternative to a SS one. Jeff, the bleach is a no-no for SS to be used under pressure ( like kegs) as the chlorine/chloride combo will etch SS if left in contact for a long time. This can lead to stress cracking and sometimes, perhaps, a chunk of schrapnel propelled by the carbon dioxide. Although it usually just results in a leak, it is hardly worth the gamble when other non-chlorine alkaline peroxy cleaning agents are available. - ------------------------------------ Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 22:29:30 -0400 From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Dr. Pivo's diacetyl and other diones Brewsters: Dr. Pivo, I suggest you read my contribution of several days ago where I listed the diacetyl and pentadione contents of all major (British?) beer types and noted the flavor contribution. It may be that these data were taken on British "lager" which perhaps never saw a lager yeast nor a diacetyl rest. I would hope that M&BS would have used data from continental beers. In any event it seems likely that all beers contain some diacetyl since it is a by product of fermentation. In M&BS p 457 1st ed. the following commments appeared: Production of Diketones and Fusel Alcohols "During the fermentation of brewers' wort by yeast, most of the pyruvic acid is decarboxylated and the acetaldehyde produced is reduced to yield ethanol. Some of the pyruvic acid is converted to acetyl CoA and used for biosynthesis of lipids and other esters, etc. A small amount of the pyruvic acid, however, is used in the production of acetoin, a-acetolactate and a-aceto hydroxybutyrate. The importance of these compounds lies in the possibility of their being oxidised to the diketones diacetyl and pentane 2.3 dione which have strong flavors and aromas. Thus diacetyl ( or butane 2,3 dione) has an overpowering smell and taste of butterscotch which in concentrations exceeding 1 mg/l (ppm) in ale and 0.5 mg/l ( ppm) in lager beers is unpleasant. (In low concentrations it is deliberately added to butter) Pentane 2,3 pentane dione has a sweet honey aroma. .........(p. 259) . Under the conditions pertaining in beer, freed of yeast, about 4% of the a-acetolactic acid is converted to diacetyl. If valine is present in excess... there is little tendency for yeast to produce a-acetolactic acid." And it goes soforth into the Ehrlich pathway for the formation of fusel alcohols. op cit P460 "Fusel alcohol production in brewery fermentations is enhanced by increasing levels of amino acids in the wort, by anaerobic conditions, by higher temperatures and by continuous agitation." Thus, I suggest Dr. Pivo do a fermentation in which the valine concentration is low, so the a-acetolactic acid concentration is increased and this will encourage the formation of diacetyl in yeast-free beer. How to do this? low N malt ( to reduce valine), no protein rests ( to reduce valine) and a substantial amount of brewer's sugar in the grist ( to dilute any valine). Sound familiar? It should, if you are a brewer of British beers. You might even consider two brews one in which you do a normal brew and the other one in which the wort is diluted and sugar is added. You could then blend the finished (yeast free) beers to the desired diacetyl level. Your puzzlement over how beer might have one vicinal dione and not another may result from your derision of and consequent failure to practice the "diacetyl rest". It may be that the diacetyl goes away faster than the higher diones during this rest and the honey character predominates over the butterscotch. Diacetyl could be more reactive or more easily consumed by the yeast during the diacetyl rest. This could explain your dilemma. Diacetyl in lagers *is* considered a fault as it can be present in large quantities in lager due to a pediococcus infection, but it and the pentane dione is normally present in low quantities ( if the above referenced table is correct) as I have indicated.Diacetyl should not be considered a fault in low concentrations. - ---------------------------------- Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 07:23:49 -0400 From: "Chuck Mryglot" <cmryglot at Progress.com> Subject: Rice CAP A while back there was some discussion about brewing CAP with rice and if I remember correctly some folks were going to go off an brew up some. Anyone have anything to report back on this.... Jeff Renner...are you out there? CHuckM Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 08:52:09 -0400 (EDT) From: pbabcock <pbabcock at mail.oeonline.com> Subject: BT article... Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... Jack sez... > First of all, I can not read the page because of the background. It's > black text on very dark background and is totally unreadable to me. > Not sure what motivates folks to post such stuff but..... To which I say, it's not. It is a woodgrain background with a table on top of it. Column one is orange with the magazine cover on it. Column two is white with the article on it. It is _YOUR_ browser that is in question, Jack me boy. You're likely out of date. Jack has just triggered a peeve of mine. And, being a HTML-responsible clod myself, I just have to come to the aid of someone using extensions to the HTML standards to make their page a richer experience. Yeah, yeah: it makes the page unreadable for some out-of-date browsers, but you advance the technology by using it and its new features. (And colored cell backgrounds in tables isn't all that recent, either.) As an HTML writer, you used to have to choose between the slick features with the new standards, or making the page accessible to the lowest common denominator. But, Netscape was a purchased package back then, too. Now, thanks to (the evil?) Microsoft, Netscape has been driven to distribute their browser fee-free as well. Hell! Even AOL now provides a TCP/IP socket so you can use your own clients (as of AOL 3.5, I believe. They're up to 4.0 now...). With all this accessibility, you can't be responsible for those unwilling or incapable in keeping their (might I note it again: free...) software up to date. For others experiencing this difficulty in a Windoze environment, you can upgrade your browser at www.netscape.com (Netscape v4.5) or www.microsoft.com/ie (Internet Explorer v5.0). Unix/Mac/Etc are unfortunately on their own. I'll add links for downloading updated browsers to the HBD homepage to make them easier to find. See ya! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at oeonline.com Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/brew.html "Just a cyber-shadow of his former brewing self..." Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:02:31 -0400 From: "Jim B Verlinde" <beans at voyager.net> Subject: Dave Humes/Ringwood Yeast I have used Wyeast 1187 xl with great success. It is a Ringwood strain that I think is new to Wyeast. It has added the maltiness to my ESB that I have been looking for. FWIW, I use an open fermentation and skim the surface as well as gently rouse the wort each day. This was suggested by the brewer at Arcadia Brewing in Kalamazoo, MI who uses Ringwood in his ESB. Jim Verlinde Grand Rapids, MI Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:16:02 -0400 From: Dan Listermann <72723.1707 at compuserve.com> Subject: Planting Finished! & You Spell Harrington - I Spell Herrington I just planted my fifth attempt at growing barley ( Harrington) a few minutes ago. Thanks for all the advice!. Hamilton County, Ohio ( Cincinnati) does not seem to have human extension agents. The "Homebrewers Garden," by Fisher & Fisher was a big help and some of the recommended web sites were as well. It is supposed to rain tonight or tomorrow. I expect by late next week I will see little green blades! I bought a soil test kit for $8.00 that checked the pH and N. I was quite surprised at the amount of hydrated lime required ( 12 lbs over 800 sq. ft.) and 10% N fertilizer ( 16 lbs) required to get the soot colored railbed dirt to spec. ( unearthed two more spikes) It turns out that the lime should have been put down months ago, but I had to do what I had to do. This fall I hope somebody reminds me to turn the bed over and check pH so things go better next year. - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---------------------------------------- Reading the digest this morning I noticed that I misspelled Harrington in my post yesterday. I never could spell. Dan Listermann dan at listermann.com 72723.1707 at compuserve.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 10:43:00 -0400 From: Joe Rolfe <rolfe at sky.sky.com> Subject: Short mash. "Mark W. Wilson" <mwilson at ichips.intel.com> mentioned: "I just can't see where the time savings are with overnight mashing, unless you have some kind of robot doing a 6 hour decoction mash for you while you sleep. Modern malt only takes 5-15 minutes to convert, all the books recommending longer sacchrification mashes are wrong." I'll bet intel could build you the robot and get the software from microsoft....Good point on the durations 'urban legend #1' - "if it aint converted after 30 minutes it probably wont get there...", this is what I have been told and seen - had seen negative Iodine tests in 10 minutes with some british malts. But you just do not want to stick your mash at 15XF for 15 min, mashout, recirc and runoff....'urban legend #2', that I subscribe to, mentioned around 3 to 3.5hrs (as a rough minimum) water contact time...When you get that robot let me know - I want one...got to be alot cheaper than a $10-$15/hr brewmonkey over the long run. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 09:52:01 -0600 From: John Adsit <jadsit at jeffco.k12.co.us> Subject: BT and Murphy's Jack Schmidling responded: > First of all, I can not read the page because of the background. It's > black text on very dark background and is totally unreadable to me. > Not sure what motivates folks to post such stuff but..... To what are you referring? My post in HBD? Not likely. It was sent, like all HBD messages, in plain text. The BT message? It has a bright white background on my browser. Please don't be too quick to call others morons. The problem could be somewhere else. - -------------- Scott Bridges asked: > >I'd just like to add a lttle more info about Murphy's. I toured the > >Heineken brewery/museum in Amsterdam last summer, and part of the tour > >showed the kind of malt they use when they make Murphy's Irish Stout. > >Yes, it may be made in Cork, but it is owned by Heineken. > > John, > Do you know this, or are you speculating? Just because Heineken brews > Murphys in Amsterdam, doesn't necessarily mean they own it. Guinness brews > Bud in Ireland. Doesn't mean they own the brand. They are licensed to brew > it. I don't have a clue, but it's interesting if true. The tour guides told us Heineken owns Amstel, Brand, and Murphy's. I did not verify that, but I figured they wouldn't lie. By the way, if you've never had Brand, it's a pretty good Dutch Pilsner. At least it's better than Heineken and Amstel, in my opinion. According to Michael Jackson, it was the beer that got the concession to supply the Allied troops as they pushed toward Germany after D-Day. - -- John Adsit Boulder, Colorado jadsit at jeffco.k12.co.us Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:04:06 -0700 From: Jonathan Peakall <jpeakall at mcn.org> Subject: Re: Planting Time Jay, Wait! Don't even think of miracle grow! As a long time organic farmer, here is what I would do: First, do get some topsoil, about 1/2 to 2/3 of your container volume. Then, get some manure ( horse or steer, you can buy it in bags at nurseries) and if obtainable, "humus builder". If no humus builder, then bagged compost or a good organic potting soil. The above is the minimum soil requirements (IMHO). If it was me, I'd get some chicken manure pellets. Mix a couple big handfuls of it in the container prior to planting. Water in well. I'd also add trace elements, especially if you dont know where the topsoil is from. Another excellent thing to do is get some vitamin b-12 supplement (one brand is called "Start") and use it according to directions. It promotes vigorous root growth. I usually soak a transplant with it 24 hours in advance of the event. As to Miracle grow, while it is impressive in the short run, it will kill your soil in the long run. MG, and all other synthetic fertilizers will build salts up in your soil, and add no organic material vital to the micro-organisms, and vital for good drainage. I would top dress with chicken manure, blood meal, or a premixed organic fertilizer (GreenAll makes an easy to use solid one). One last tip: In the spring, and up until the plants start to bud, feed them with something high in nitrogen, like chicken manure. As they start to bud, feed them with something like bone meal, which is high in phosphorus. This will promote bigger, tighter, more fragrant buds. Organic is a little more hassle. However, you get better results, and your beloved plants won't pither and die after a few years, and hops are something you want healthy for years to come. And hey, you wanna eat MacDonald's for every meal for the rest of your life? Ughh. Good hop growing, Jonathan Peakall Spies at dhcd.state.md.us ******************************************** "I don't feel we did wrong in taking this great country away from them. There were great numbers of people who needed new land, and the Indians were selfishly trying to keep it for themselves." -- John Wayne ******************************************** Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:29:35 -0700 (PDT) From: smurman at shell5.ba.best.com Subject: diacetyl redux (sic) Seems to me that folks might be confusing two sides of the same coin regarding diacetyl. On one hand there are commercial products, where diacetyl, along with many other flavor components, can merge to form a great brew. Commercial brewers are usually highly knowledgable, have sufficient resources, pitch suitable quantities of yeast, have in-line oxygenators, temperature-controlled conical fermenters, etc. etc. On the other hand we have homebrewers, who often severely under-pitch, don't pay attention to ferment temps, etc. These homebrewers can produce beer that has an overwhelming diacetyl component. It seems that some may be confusing trying to help homebrewers produce better beer (viz. reducing unreasonable diacetyl levels) with campaigning to rid all beer of diacetyl flavors. -SM- Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:42:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Graham <weg at micro-net.net> Subject: Shorter Sacc. Rest in hbd #2999, Mark Wilson said: >> Modern malt only takes 5-15 minutes to convert, all the books >> recommending longer sacchrification mashes are wrong. >> After a pro brewer enlightened me on this point, I shortened my sac. >> rest times from 1 hour to 15 minutes, with no change in extract level, >> just more body and mouthfeel in the resulting beers. I say: Hey! Is this true? Have I been wasting 75 minutes of my life for every batch of beer I've made? On the other hand, if you wait such a short time(only until complete conversion), does that mean you will get excessive body and mouthfeel? Was the 60-90 minute mash time just one of the those things that people(like me) took as gospel and mindlessly repeated? (i.e., a momily). Feeling foolish in Golden Bill "...the only way to deal with bureaucrats is with stealth and sudden violence." - Butros Butros-Ghali Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 11:41:05 -0700 From: Ted McIrvine <McIrvine at ix.netcom.com> Subject: Slow sparge/protein rest with DWC Pils I have the same exact problem: I use DWC Pils (great malt!) and a modified version of the easymasher. Every time I do a protein rest, I have a very sticky and slow run-off. I'm starting to think that the protein rest is to blame because I don't have as much difficulty when I mash in around 150-155. Does anyone in the collective wisdom have any explanations or thoughts? Cheers Ted > From: Adrian Griffin <agriffin at softcom.net> > Subject: Slow sparge/protein rest > > I did my first mash with a protein rest last Saturday and had a very > slow runoff. Sparging my batch took 4 hours, much to the disgust of my > spouse who does not like me monopolizing the kitchen for that long. > > I'd appreciate any thoughts from the collective on how to avoid this > problem. > > I have used Jack Schmidling's Easymasher without any problems at all Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 17:17:04 GMT From: happyhansen at scronline.com (<happyhansen at scronline.com>) Received: from cust22.scronline.com ([]) by scronline.com (wcSMTP [445]) with SMTP id 479719159; Thu, 08 Apr 1999 17:17:00 GMT X-Sender: joy.hansen at bbs.scronline.com (Unverified) Message-Id: <v01540b00b3321ab351c1 at []> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: homebrew at hbd.org From: happyhansen at scronline.com (Joy Hansen) Subject: Aeration with Oxygen Hi Collective, Most likely I missed the thread concerning use of welding oxygen to aerate wort. However, I purchased an oxy-acetylene outfit and have the bottle of welding oxygen at hand. The only thing I can think of that might influence my brew toxicisity is oil or the like. Certainly not something that could be easily oxydized as the bottle environment could be hazardous. As for bacteria in the system, the 2200 #s per square inch is so high above 15 or so psi that I think most life forms might be crushed? The hoses are swept clear of tooling stuff and the welding tip is heated well above boiling. So, the spoilage bacteria shouldn't be a problem; when, I attach a clean hose to the welding tip and use a diffuser in the wort for a minute for so. Seems like it should work OK when standard safety practices are followed. I'm using a Williams SS diffuser coupled to a brass wand headed by a hepta filter at 1 micron. Most likely too large for bacteria. It should keep the larger stuff out. Is a chemical trap necessary, like activated carbon, etc.? Joy"T"Brew member BURP Scottsburg, VA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 13:21:20 -0400 From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Mash time Brewsters: I agree with Mark Wilson's assessment of the doubtless advantage of overnight mashing and did when I first read about it in Dave Line's first book lo' these many years ago. It was a compromise then using the "Bruheat" electric brewer and it is today. Is it worth the compromise? I doubt it, but it does have some appeal to some people who can devote shorter time slots to brewing. It is better to brew than to not brew. Mark also says: " Modern malt only takes 5 -15 minutes to convert. All the books recommending longer saccharification mashes are wrong." He claims a professional brewer tipped him off to this and he reduced his saccharification time and got better beers quicker. Sorry, Mark, but I have met "professional brewers" who have told me lots of things that were B.S. learned at the knee of Charlie Papazian. This is one of them. In Charlie's first book he makes a similar comment and bases it (I presume) on an iodine test in which only the starch in the solution was tested. Fortunately, he corrects this in his second edition of JOHB and suggests that some of the malt solids also be tested for the presence of starch and also offers longer mash times as a result. I have used this latter method before I ever heard of CP and, although others may differ, this is the best way to do the iodine test, IMHO. No change in your extraction in going from 1 hour saccharifications to 15 minutes is a meaningless result without some quantitative numbers. You could be mill limited. Like how many pts? What OG? What grist? Clarity? What about mixed grists which include non-malted grains, etc., etc. Are you talking about single infusion mashes only? What temperature? Higher temperature mashes do go more quickly. Well doughed-in mashes will proceed more quickly as the temperature is raised as contrasted to using one strike heat and mashing out. The temperatures over which enzymes react are broad and the temperature history of the mash is extremely important. Since amylases are inhibited by the presence of sugars, the grist/liquor ratio is important, as is the OG of the wort. The calcium ion content and the pH of the wort can also be important. I do not doubt your results, but, my point is, your comment is extremely misleading unless we know the exact details of your mashing procedure. Is it worth the risk when you consider all the time this whole process consumes? Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 13:40:42 -0500 From: John.Wilkinson at aud.alcatel.com (John Wilkinson) Subject: RE: Murphys/Heineken connection Scott Bridges wrote as to Heineken owning Murphy's: >Do you know this, or are you speculating? Just because Heineken brews >Murphys in Amsterdam, doesn't necessarily mean they own it. Guinness brews >Bud in Ireland. Doesn't mean they own the brand. They are licensed to brew >it. I don't have a clue, but it's interesting if true. I have some second hand information, if that is worth anything. A good friend of my son's (actually mine too as I have known him since he was a toddler) works for a company that supplies beer to US military bases in Europe and one of their biggest suppliers is Heineken. He has made many trips to Heineken and has annual meetings with them to boot. He had told me that Heineken owned Murphy's and, indeed, their last annual meeting was at the Murphy's brewery in Ireland. He said he was amazed at what a small operation it appeared to be. That, however, was probably in comparison to Miller, his former employer. I must admit I am somewhat envious of his job, at least the travel to European breweries part. John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 13:48:38 -0500 From: "Crossno, Glyn" <Glyn.Crossno at cubic.com> Subject: A Newbie Brewer Question/ and a question of my own >> 1. The homebrew shop owner I talked to suggested using a grain bag for sparges. Mark W. Wilson answered: >I started all-grain using a grain bag in 5 gallon bucket. Cleanup is a breeze with >the grain bag. Now I'm using a square picnic cooler and 1/2" copper pipe manifold, >so i can do high gravity or 10 gallon batches. I did my steeping and later partial mashes in a grain bag. The sparge if any was done in another pot. As a step toward better beer, it was quick, cheap and worth it. But it was a stepping stone. I now use the rectangular cooler, 1/2" copper manifold. 8 gallons of barleywine or 14 gallons of lower gravity beers. >> 2. The owner (and many people on HBD) also suggested using an overnight >> mash to shorten brewing sessions. I do this and like doing it that way. Sometimes mash in on my way to work and finish up when I get home. Mark W. Wilson answered: >Modern malt only takes 5-15 minutes to convert, all the books >recommending longer sacchrification mashes are wrong. Am I missing the boat? To my discredit, with all the other things I've mucked with, and up, I have never done an iodine test. All "modern malts"? Single step? Multi? Mark W. Wilson typed: >After a pro brewer enlightened me on this point, I shortened my sac. rest >times from 1 hour to 15 minutes, with no change in extract level, just more >body and mouthfeel in the resulting beers. This sounds good. How about terminal gravity? I'll try it next brew! >The negatives of overnight >mashing are a) overconversion b) possible sourness from lactobacillus in the >grain (unlikely to be perceptable) c) stuck mashes, as you have discovered. a - FG is controllable by the strike temperature. I've hit 1.006 and 1.018 with SG of 1.055. Mouthfeel I would have to compare side by side, but I have made some chewy beer overnight. b - not perceptible c - my only stuck mash or semi-stuck were not over night! Rye once, and cereal mash once. I have done both and not stuck so not sure of the exact cause. Glyn "Hug those bines" Crossno--- "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:33:26 -0700 From: Bryan Gros <bryang at xeaglex.com> Subject: European imports The recent thread on Guinness vs. Murphys vs. Beamish is interesting. It is great now being able to try these beers side by side. I've never been a big Guinness fan, and my favorite of the three is Murphys. Both Murphys and Beamish have a bit more maltiness or sweetness which, to me, helps balance all the roast and bitterness. >From a judge perspective, it is nice to have three world class beers available, all the same style, yet all different. On a similar note, I have heard that Budweiser Budvar is now being imported into the US under the name Crystal (or Cristal) lager. Can anyone confirm this rumor? I have not found it here in the SF Bay Area, but I haven't been looking too hard yet. - Bryan Bryan Gros Oakland CA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 14:49:47 -0500 From: David A Bradley <BRADLEY_DAVID_A at Lilly.com> Subject: Sam Adams Spring Ale clone? Greetings. Since nobody else commented on this recent post... >Posting 7: Extracted from file: 2997 >Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:27:10 -0400 >From: Chuck Cubbler <chuck at maguire.com> >Subject: Sam Adams Summer Ale Clone > >A few days ago, Tom Puskar asked for recipes for a SA Summer Ale clone. No >one (I think) has responded so far, so here's my recipe, thanks to Phyllis >at Beercrafters (no affiliation, yada, yada)..... > >5 Gallon, Partial Mash > >3# Malted Wheat >1# Belgian Carapils > >Single Infusion at ~152?F, 1 hr., 1? qts per # >Sparge with 5 qts at 168?F > >3.3# Northwestern Weizen LME >1# Wheat DME >2 oz Czech Saaz 3.2% >Fresh Lemon Zest (yellow outer skin) from 2 lemons >? tsp Paradise Seeds, Crushed > >60 min boil, add hops, zest, seeds after 45 min >Wyeast Belgian Wheat (#3942) > >OG= 1.032, FG= 1.007 > >This was not quite a copy, but very tasty indeed. I'll be making more >soon. > This sounds more like a clone of Sol Sun (new name = ?) from Bell's. It does not fit the earlier descriptions exerpted below. The lemon zest and seeds of paradise should not be in a Koelsch style ale; rather the very crisp fruitiness should derive from the yeast primarily. The noble hops are OK, though I haven't calculated the IBUs. Don't over hop your Koelsch though... a very nice hop *taste* is the target, not huge hop aroma or too much bitterness. Now if I could just find some of this SA beer to try! >From: Tidmarsh Major <ctmajor at samford.edu> >Subject: Sam Adams Spring Ale > >Last December, Jim Booth asked for opinions about Sam Adams Apring Ale >as an example of Koelsch. I recently found some on a trip through >Atlanta and offer the following observations for comment: > >I wouldn't consider myself an arbiter of the style, having tasted >"echt Koelsch" only once, but I think the Sam Adams may be a bit off >the mark. It lacks the gentle maltines and slight fruitiness that I >recall, and may be slightly over-bittered. Aspen Brewing's >"Tire-Biter" ale is another American Koelsch-style ale that I think >hits much closer to the mark. and this post... >From: Ted McIrvine <McIrvine at ix.netcom.com> >Subject: Koelsch > >My favorite Koelsch is Goose Island Koelsch. I've never had an >authentic Koelsch from Cologne, but the Goose Island is a very good >match for the descriptions that I've read. It has a delicate malty >flavor with a slight trace of noble hops. > Yes, I've also enjoyed this Goose Island ale...at least what I can find before SOMEBODY (hi Paul) buys it all up. Its a terrific balance of maltiness and hop flavor, perhaps a little too much hop aroma? and this last post... >From: Peter Bertone <bertone at physics.unc.edu> >Subject: Sam Adams Spring Ale > > >A while back someone asked for opinions about whether Sam Adams Spring >Ale fit the stye of a koelsch. One of my office mates is a German who did >his Ph.D. in Cologne. I thought it would be fun to give him a bottle of >SASA to evaluate. I was very doubtful that he would find SASA to resemble >a real koelsch. He was even more doubtful, and he had a good laugh about >the notion of a koelsch-style ale being a "Spring" ale. The surprise was >that both he and his wife found that SASA does taste like koelsch. There >were no qualifications in what he said; "It tastes like koelsch". However, >he also said that SASA is darker than koelsch and the head retention and >density are also much higher. (He claims a dense, long lasting head is not >present in a real koelsch.) He told me that he was even more surprised >that SASA tasted like koelsch when he saw that it looked more like German >Pils. >This person also grew up in Duesseldorf so I plan to run a few >iterations of homebrewed altbier by him. > Dave in Indy Home of the 3-B Brewery, currently in storage between houses :-( Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 15:27:26 -0500 From: "Phil Uecker" <uecker at hpnc.com> Subject: planting time... SOP for ANYTHING should be to shy away from the Miracle Gro type of fertilizers. These are heavily laden with non-soluble salts. Especially if you are growing in containers-I don't care what size- you will eventually end up with a build up of these salts. It will then take more and more of these fertilizers to keep the plants satisfied. I suggest a more earth friendly approach. Use a combination of good soil and composted materials for the growing medium. A little rock powder or lava sand will aid in drainage as well as moisture retention. Use worm castings or some nice composted bat guano as a top dressing for the nitrogen boost. My first brew attempt in 15 years is in the secondary now (Blackstrap Porter) but my garden has been abundant for years. Member TOGA (Texas Organic Growers Association) Ale's well that ends well : I'm planning on getting six 35 gallon :rubbermaid-type trash cans, and paying someone to fill them with, er, fill dirt (I live in the city). : I'll probably add some topsoil in the upper layer of each. Each can will get its own : but what's SOP for adding (Miracle-Gro) type fertilizer in what :amounts to get the proper nutritional balance to ensure the optimal amount of hoppy goodness??? Return to table of contents
[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]
HTML-ized on 04/09/99, by HBD2HTML version 1.2 by K.F.L.
webmaster at hbd.org, KFL, 10/9/96