HOMEBREW Digest #3029 Thu 13 May 1999

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  O2 caps (BrewInfo)
  Who Is Dr. Pivo? ("Poirier, Bob")
  Ca phosphate (or whatever) (Spencer W Thomas)
  honey flavor (Lostboy676)
  SureScreen(tm) (BrewInfo)
  TA titration (John Wilkinson)
  bb99 report ("Hubert Hanghofer")
  Re: fwh formula? (Jeff Renner)
  Dave Humes Assumes ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  infamous Al K, ("Keith Menefy")
  Lighten Up!! ---You may have heard these but...... ("Peter J. Calinski")
  Regarding Champagne Bottles' Cap-ability ("Mark Nelson")
  epsom salts for hop plants? ("Sieben, Richard")
  Re: A newbie bottler question (Jeffry D Luck)
  Hop Bags - What's to Lose ? (woodsj)
  Phils Phlier (Dan Listermann)
  Re: A newbie bottler question? (Jeff Renner)
  Re:autoclave-resistant organism? (Jack Schmidling)
  Oat Malt Question (darrell.leavitt)
  Behold, the power of hops... (ALAN KEITH MEEKER)
  Decoction Profiles (mark)
  Re: attaching labels to bottles ("Thomas D. Hamann")
  RE: Sinology and Sodomy (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Keggerator; was beer tower ("Daske, Felix")
  RIMS sparge recirc, magnesium hops , Dr. Peevo, outatown (Dave Burley)
  Trub (ernest baker)
  Great Taste of the Midwest - Ticket Inquiry ("Humphrey,Patrick")
  Re: Re: honey beer (mark)
  Widget Free Guinness Head (Eric.Fouch)
  Polish Language (VQuante)
  veteran of the pivo wars ("Bayer, Mark A")
  Potassium Sorbate in beers??? ("Philip J Wilcox")

Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! 2000 MCAB Qualifiers: Spirit of Free Beer! Competition 5/22/99 (http://burp.org/SoFB99); Oregon Homebrew Festival 5/22/99 (http://www.mtsw.com/hotv/fest.html); Buzz-Off! Competition 6/26/99 (http://www.voicenet.com/~rpmattie/buzzoff) Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org. **SUBSCRIBE AND UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS MUST BE SENT FROM THE E-MAIL ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!** IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, the autoresponder and the SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE commands will fail! Contact brewery at hbd.org for information regarding the "Cat's Meow" Back issues are available via: HTML from... http://hbd.org Anonymous ftp from... ftp://hbd.org/pub/hbd/digests ftp://ftp.stanford.edu/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer AFS users can find it under... /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer COPYRIGHT for the Digest as a collection is currently held by hbd.org (Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen). Digests in their entirity CANNOT be reprinted/reproduced without this entire header section unless EXPRESS written permission has been obtained from hbd.org. Digests CANNOT be reprinted or reproduced in any format for redistribution unless said redistribution is at absolutely NO COST to the consumer. COPYRIGHT for individual posts within each Digest is held by the author. Articles cannot be extracted from the Digest and reprinted/reproduced without the EXPRESS written permission of the author. The author and HBD must be attributed as author and source in any such reprint/reproduction. (Note: QUOTING of items originally appearing in the Digest in a subsequent Digest is exempt from the above. Home brew clubs NOT associated with organizations having a commercial interest in beer or brewing may republish articles in their newsletters and/or websites provided that the author and HBD are attributed. ASKING first is still a great courtesy...) JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 15:18:47 -0500 (CDT) From: BrewInfo <brewinfo at xnet.com> Subject: O2 caps Rob writes: >I keep reading on how do you clean the special O2 caps. I'm wondering if >anyone has asked a micro or a major on how they clean theirs. I have asked >and this 1 (one) micro said that they didn't. They dump them right out of >the freshly opened box and cap them without cleaning any of them. That was >almost 2 years ago and I haven't cleaned any of my caps since. I haven't >had any problems since. I'm knocking on wood as I'm typing. I won't say what >micro it was but it is one of the largest in the Midwest area. They have >constantly had good beer. So I think that as long as you don't allow them to >get dirty you should be ok. I am sure now the purists will really object to >this but ask yourselves have you tried it? A micro that I talked to about this years ago also did not sanitise their caps. They have since gone out of business (Chicago Brewing Company) or, more accurately, their recipes and beer names and equipment were bought up by various other breweries, but their beer suffered from oxidation rather than sanitation problems. Nonetheless, there is a distinct difference between the caps we get and the caps micros get: ours are repackaged. Someone has to scoop out and count or weigh the caps and repackage them. Is that the same scoop they use for malt? Any grain dust fall into the open box of caps? Any thumbprints on the cap liners? Can you make sterile beer in the kitchen/basement/backyard? Almost impossible. Can you make beer that is only slightly infected (as we all do) but not so much as to cause off flavours/aromas and bottle it with unsanitised caps? Absolutely. Are you *more* likely to keep your infections below taste/smell threshold if you sanitise your caps? Probably. Sanitation, fresh ingredients and minimising oxygen pickup (except for in cooled wort at pitching time) are the most important factors in making great beer. You can skimp in any of these three areas and still make world-class beer. Then again, the less you skimp, the more *likely* you are to make world-class beer. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Al. Al Korzonas, Lockport, IL korz at brewinfo.com http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 15:41:13 -0500 From: "Poirier, Bob" <Bob_Poirier at adc.com> Subject: Who Is Dr. Pivo? Greetings!! Dave Burley doesn't trust what Dr. Pivo says, because the good Doc won't come clean and give us his true identity. Ahhhh, but he HAS exposed himself to us several times in the past! :^) For instance, just about a year ago, in HBD #2722, in discussing the need for airlocks, he asked us to visit his home page at http://www.magma.ca/~bodnsatz/brew/columns/jirvine/watertrap.html. If you really care and need to know, go there and find out for yourself!! Brew On & Prosit!! Bob P. East Haven, CT bob_poirier at adc.com Home of the B.I.G. (Beer Is Good!) Homebrew Club Life on Earth is expensive, but it comes with a free trip 'round the sun!! Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 17:20:03 -0400 From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu> Subject: Ca phosphate (or whatever) Ok, so now we have lots of blathering about why Calcium can't possibly be combining with Phosphate and precipitating in a mash. I'd like the skeptics to then explain what *IS* happening. Why does adding a calcium salt (carbonate or chloride) to the mash drop the pH? Why do all the brewing texts that I've ever seen claim that calcium phosphate precipitation is the mechanism? Are they all wrong? I don't really care what the pK is, and at what pH hydroxyapatites form. I care what is happening in my mash. And it is clear to me that adding gypsum or calcium cloride *drops* the pH of the mash. So don't tell me why it can't happen. Reminds me of the old "bumblebees can't fly" legend. =Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer at umich.edu) "I've got a Master's degree .... in Science!" - DBMT Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 18:11:47 EDT From: Lostboy676 at aol.com Subject: honey flavor > Someone recently asked about getting more honey flavor from their beer. I > was wondering, couldn't you just add some pasteurized honey at kegging time and > force carbonate? I'm just curious. > Dave Sorry, what I meant was, couldn't you add the honey after fermantion and pasteurize the whole thing, so the honey doesn't ferment, and then force carbonate. Dave Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 17:27:33 -0500 (CDT) From: BrewInfo <brewinfo at xnet.com> Subject: SureScreen(tm) Jeff writes: >Started my boil, added my hops (whole leaf and quite heavily as this >is to be an APA), no boil over but a good rolling boil. Used my wort chiller >for the first time and within 15 to 20 minutes I as was at 80 degrees. Again >carefully hoisted the pot to high enough point to fill the carboys. >Confidently place the fill tube from the pot into the carboy opened the >valve and a strong flow began. Problem is that lasted about 5 seconds and >then nothing. With all of the hops and I assume break material the >SureScreen was clogged. In the past I've tried a stainless steel scrubby >around the screen and this helps but it still gets clogged. I've tried >whirlpooling but maybe I don't know how to do this either. My last resort is >the old "hairy arm" technique to keep the screen from clogging. Any help or >suggestions would be greatly appreciated as I'm getting tired of naming my >brews the "Hairy Arm Pale Ale". I have a similar setup and I've been pretty baffled by this kind of behaviour also. I've got photos of my setup on my website. I brewed at least two dozen batches on this system with absolutely no problems. Suddenly, on the last two batches I've gotten serious cloggage when running the wort out of the kettle. Temporarily, I fixed the problem by getting a long (30-inch?) stainless steel spoon and scraping the screens. An hour later, I had gotten 95% of the wort out, pitched and went to bed. Note that I've never, ever had any slow runoff problems from the mash tun, which also has three similar screens. Even on these batches with clogged kettle screens, I had crystal-clear, smooth runoff from the mash tun. After the first time I had this problem, I suspected protein buildup on the screens (since I had at least two dozen batches with no problems) so I soaked the screens in hot PBW overnight. The next batch had the same problem. Another reason I think it's not buildup on the screens because I used both the mashtun and kettle as both mashtun and kettle on the last batch (i.e. both were used as mashtuns and then both were used as kettles)... the runnings from the "mashtuns" were smooth as silk, whereas both "kettles" had cloggage. My real mashtun has only been used as a kettle once or twice before, hence, I don't think it's buildup. I have not had the time to brew again since then, so I could not test my latest theory: brittle whole hops. You see, when I was about to sell my HB supply store, I bought a lot of extra hops and malt. I stored the malt in HDPE gasketted buckets and the hops in CO2-purged, 1-gallon, oxygen-barrier, heat-sealed bags. The hops have, however, been getting dryer and more brittle as they age (oxygen, but not mosture-barrier?). This is the only difference between two batches that were essentially the same (except for the clogging and the age of the hops (and malt, I guess)). Were the hops you used rather brittle, or were they very soft and springy? I really would like to figure out what is at the root of this problem not only for my own and Jeff's sake, but also for other users of screens like this in their kettles. Al. Al Korzonas, Lockport, IL korz at brewinfo.com http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 18:26:33 -0500 From: John.Wilkinson at aud.alcatel.com (John Wilkinson) Subject: TA titration I have read somewhere, possibly here, the pH number at which the tell tale color change takes place when titrating to find total acidity but can't find that number now. Does anyone know the number? It seems it would be easier when testing dark musts (like red wine) and possibly more accurate even for lighter musts like traditional mead or cider. Am I hopelessly confused or would it be a good idea, assuming I have a pH meter, which I do, to determine the balance point in a TA titration using the pH meter rather than depending on the color change? John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 02:17:43 +0200 From: "Hubert Hanghofer" <hhanghof at netbeer.co.at> Subject: bb99 report Hi all, since I've been absent lately I'd like to invite you for a visit to http://www.netbeer.co.at/beer/bb99.htm ...my Big Brew 99 report from Austria. CHEERS & sehr zum Wohle! Hubert CEO, Association of Salzburg Underground Breweries Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 13:11:15 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: fwh formula? From: jim williams <jim&amy at macol.net> asks >does a formula exist that figures ibu of first wort hopping technique? Strictly speaking, fw hops are boiled the full boil, and contribute as many IBU as they would if they were added at the beginning of the boil. However, the bitterness is of a different nature and according to the original articles quoted by George Fix in his first report to HBD, the German taste panels overwhelmingly preferred the FWH beers. Even though the FWH beers had a higher IBU than the standard beers, they were not perceived as such. See Dave Draper's FWH summary at http://hbd.org/ddraper/beer/1stwort.html. Here is a quote from it: "6. Final comments: each brewery needs to experiment with its own setup for determining what sort of first-wort hopping is best for it. But the alpha-acid quantity should *not* be reduced, even if one gets more bitterness than one would get in the usual way. The tasting panel results seem to indicate that the bitterness in the FWH beers was fine, and mild--i.e. there is little harshness that can appear in a highly bittered beer. If the hops are reduced to compensate for the extra IBUs one gets from the first-wort hops, then the whole benefit of doing it might be lost. The recommendation is to use at least 30% of the total hops as first- wort hops--basically, this means adding the aroma hops as first-wort hops rather than late kettle additions." I love FWH for my CAP and other pale lagers, and have used it in some pale ales as well. In one case I used 100% of the hops (Columbus) as FWH in an APA and loved it. I also recently tasted a Helles-type lager (brewed by a frequent HBD poster) that was 100% FWH. It didn't stand out as peculiar, just very nice. Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 15:45:05 +1000 From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at flexgate.infoflex.com.au> Subject: Dave Humes Assumes This is a rather difficult post as I am responding to someone who despite my invitation to do so refuses to let anyone else in the HBD see what he likes to write! His preference is to send very nasty private emails. The source of Dave's bitterness was my Cat Swinging post. Now Dave, why don't you take the opportunity to hop up here on the dais and have your two bobs worth. Everyone else does! Let me get you started. Bring along that piece of paper you're holding with your comments on it. "The very thought that you would remove a cat's tail for something as insignificant as your beer is unthinkable" "The fact that you decided to advertise your stupidity and inhumane treatment of an innocent animal in this forum goes only to show that you are nothing more than a heartless moron." "Lets think, if a cat could get in your brewery, then maybe also mice, rats, cockroaches, snakes, and who knows what else could get in also. For crying out loud, are you open fermenting in the carport?" Now Dave, really, sit down and loosen that tie! You are surely not going to tell me you really believed the whole thing happened? Am I that convincing? Dave it was something that came to me as an aside whilst responding to the uric acid matter. The cat in question, i.e. the neighbour's cat is at this moment curled up on my lap. Doesn't look like he's ever had a swing in his life! I'll skip the lecture you gave me on how to look after domestic animals. What other kind thoughts did you offer? " The animal was simply performing a natural function undeserving of your inhumane treatment. Some people like cats and others don't. That's OK. Just keep it to yourself. What you wrote to the HBD is not funny and this kind of talk only encourages others with similarly underdeveloped value systems to do more of the same". "The purpose of the HBD is not to serve as a forum for personal diatribes having nothing to do with making beer" Well Dave, that's fair enough comment I guess. But since when did you become the self appointed Chairman of the HBD, did I miss something somewhere? I have criticised postings myself but I did it in this forum where others could see what I had to say, and criticise if they felt it necessary, and they did! My idea was to add something a little light, sort of a coffee break between the long chains of chemical compounds that sometimes run on and on and on! If you don't like what I write that's fine. But criticise me here in front of everyone! That way if someone doesn't agree with you they might like to tell you so. Then you might have something else to think about. Now wouldn't that be a little fairer? Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 20:06:47 +1200 From: "Keith Menefy" <kmenefy at ihug.co.nz> Subject: infamous Al K, G,Day In Homebrew Digest #3024 (May 07, 1999) Matt Brooks said >I believe it started with the infamous Al K, and Dave B. talking about pH drop..... Why infamous, Matt? In my opinion, I would term there posts as informative at the very least. Cheers Keith infamous.......having a bad reputation; notorious......... Collins English Dictionary Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 11:34:21 -0400 From: "Peter J. Calinski" <PCalinski at iname.com> Subject: Lighten Up!! ---You may have heard these but...... << The Best Drunk Quotes...Ever I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day. * Frank Sinatra The problem with some people is that when they aren't drunk, they're sober. * William Butler Yeats An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools. * Ernest Hemingway Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you tokeep your mouth shut. * Ernest Hemingway You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on. * Dean Martin Drunk is feeling sophisticated when you can't say it. * Anonymous No animal ever invented anything as bad as drunkenness - or as good as drink. * G.K. Chesterton Time is never wasted when you're wasted all the time. * Catherine Zandonella Abstainer: a weak person who yields to the temptation of denying himself a pleasure. * Ambrose Bierce Reality is an illusion that occurs due to lack of alcohol. * Anonymous I never drink anything stronger than gin before breakfast. A woman drove me to drink and I didn't even have the decency to thank her. What contemptible scoundrel has stolen the cork to my lunch? * W.C. Fields Beauty lies in the hands of the beer holder. * Anonymous If God had intended us to drink beer, He would have given us stomachs. * David Daye Work is the curse of the drinking classes. * Oscar Wilde When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading. * Henny Youngman Life is a waste of time, time is a waste of life, so get wasted all of the time and have the time of your life. * Anonymous I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy. * Tom Waits 24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case. Coincidence? * Stephen Wright When we drink, we get drunk. When we get drunk, we fall asleep. When we fall asleep, we commit no sin. When we commit no sin, we go to heaven Sooooo, let's all get drunk, and go to heaven... * Brian O'Rourke You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline -it helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer. * Frank Zappa Always remember that I have taken more out of alcohol than alcohol has taken out of me. * Winston Churchill He was a wise man who invented beer. * Plato Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. * Benjamin Franklin If you ever reach total enlightenment while drinking beer, I bet it makes beer shoot out your nose. * Deep Thought, Jack Handy Without question, the greatest invention in the history of mankind is beer. Oh, I grant you that the wheel was also a fine invention, but the wheel does not go nearly as well with pizza. * Dave Barry The problem with the world is that everyone is a few drinks behind. * Humphrey Bogart Why is American beer served cold? So you can tell it from urine. * David Moulton Give me a woman who loves beer and I will conquer the world. * Kaiser Wilhelm I would kill everyone in this room for a drop of sweet beer. * Homer Simpson Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer. * Dave Barry I drink to make other people interesting. * George Jean Nathan All right, brain, I don't like you and you don't like me so let's just do this and I'll get back to killing you with beer. * Homer Simpson Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 08:49:45 -0400 From: "Mark Nelson" <menelson at mindspring.com> Subject: Regarding Champagne Bottles' Cap-ability Zemo, then Dave Burley, discussed cap-ability of American champagne bottles. What I've found is that American "methode champenoise" style wines (where they do a secondary fermentation in the bottle which is capped, before uncapping and disgorging the yeast, then corking/wiring) will take a standard beer bottle cap. Wines that are not fermented in the bottle, but in tanks before bottling, sometimes/usually don't have cap-able tops. Mark Nelson Atlanta GA Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 07:59:34 -0500 From: "Sieben, Richard" <SIER1 at Aerial1.com> Subject: epsom salts for hop plants? Paul Shick asked about using epsom salts to cure a magnesium deficiency that was causing hop leaves to yellow. I would recommend that you go to the hardware store and get a good soil test kit. I had the same problem with my Mt. Hood hops last year (interestingly none of the other 9 varieties in the same plot of ground had the problem). I don't recall the name brand of the test kit, but it had 4 test containers and different chemicals in capsule form so it is all premeasured for you. What I found was a potash deficiency and I applied a pound of it in 3 seperate instances over the growing season, between all 10 of my plants. No more yellow leaves. (BTW the Mt. Hood has been the fastest growing plant this year, it reached over 8 feet as of yesterday, Tettnangers are only a few inches behind.) Rich Sieben Brewing IS grain surgery! Return to table of contents
Date: 12 May 1999 06:12:09 -0700 From: Jeffry D Luck <Jeffry.D.Luck at aexp.com> Subject: Re: A newbie bottler question Brett asks about a good adhesive for his bottle labels. I'm sure this will receive a mixed reaction, I use milk. Yep, good 'ol 2%. I have a sponge for just this purpose, so I set it in a shallow bowl and pour a half cup of milk in. Then I take a label and set it on the sponge face up, tap it down so the back is well dunked and apply it to the beer bottle. Sometimes you have to 'encourage' the corners to lay flat, but that's it. To remove, soak the bottle for about 30 seconds and the label lifts off. I do lose about 2 labels per case because it's not a perfect adhesive, but it's no biggie for me. They usually fall off as the milk dries or they're on for good. I've done this with labels printed on a color laser and an HP inkjet. with no problem Hope this helps. ...But I am curious about the other responses you get. Jeff Luck Salt Lake City, UT (definately NOT legal) (3 states and a mountain range away from the center of the universe.) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 09:28:24 -0400 From: woodsj at us.ibm.com Subject: Hop Bags - What's to Lose ? Is there any thoughts on using hop bags in the boil ? I find straining from the kettle a real PITA. Last few brew I used hop bags and made it much easier. Is there any evidence that using hop bags loses a lot of the hop utilization ? I understand there is less hop contact with the boiling wort, but is it significant ? Should you compensate and add a little hops and continue with the bags ? I usually use hop pellets but can use either type if it makes a difference. Please, no complex intellectual university-type formulas. Just some real practical advice. Thanks in advance. Jeff Woods Camp Hill, PA Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 09:38:49 -0400 From: Dan Listermann <72723.1707 at compuserve.com> Subject: Phils Phlier Bob Sheck ( bsheck at skantech.net ) writes: <I'm rather surprised that Jack Schmidling or Dan Listerman haven't got an Easy-Keg-Krane or Phil's Keg Phlier or similar device.> How did you hear of this??? The concept was to utilize waste heat from the boil and a really, really big bag to elevate the keg. The current holdups are that, save for the Vehicle Assembly Building at the Kennedy Space Center, indoor operation is difficult and the FAA paper work. Dan Listermann dan at listermann.com 72723.1707 at compuserve.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 09:42:28 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: A newbie bottler question? "Brett A. Spivy" <baspivy at softdisk.com> asks >What adhesive and application technique do you seasoned brewer / >bottlers recommend for my labeling? Milk. Comes off easily (a fault if you're putting your bottles in an ice bucket to chill, but that makes beers too cold anyway). Cheap, always available. I put a bit on the counter and smear the back of the label across the milk, then apply it and smooth it with a damp sponge. Looks very professional. Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 07:03:55 -0700 From: Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net> Subject: Re:autoclave-resistant organism? "Is there such a thing as an autoclave-resistant organism?? You bet. It's called Clintococcus willaimensis I believe the strain known as Hillary is also. js - -- Visit our web site: http://user.mc.net/arf ASTROPHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://user.mc.net/arf/weekly.htm Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 10:00:32 -0500 (EST) From: darrell.leavitt at plattsburgh.edu Subject: Oat Malt Question A question regarding Oat Malt (for Jeff and/or others who have used this): I just picked up a bag of malted oats. How much of a 10-12 lb grain bill would one put in...2 lbs? ,..Darrell Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 10:12:21 -0400 (EDT) From: ALAN KEITH MEEKER <ameeker at welch.jhu.edu> Subject: Behold, the power of hops... I must say I'm damn impressed with the growth of my hops. Started them last year late in the spring and they did OK but this year they are going hog wild! My Liberty and Mt Hood plants are already to the tops of their 10 foot trellis. What do I do now? It's still very early in the growing season, can I string up some twine and train them back /down/ ?? Just out of curiosity I marked where the tops of the bines were, then checked them 24 hours later and they'd grown 2 1/2 inches!! What fun. -Alan Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 16:06:24 +0200 From: mark <shrike.cars at accesinternet.com> Subject: Decoction Profiles mark at awfulquiet.com (please use this e-mail address for replies) Lee, >A decoction is beneficial in a wheat beer by breaking down proteins and gums >and allowing for better lautering it reduces the chances of a stuck sparge. It also adds a "decocted" grain flavour to the beer. Something that I have never experienced with an infusion mash. >Why do you take 10 minutes to add the decotion. Dump about 2/3 of it in >the main mash and stir. let temp stabilize and add more to hit desired >temp. No need to wait 10 minutes. I have a brewhouse report from the Stroh's brewery in Winston-Salem, NC. They take 10 minutes in the transfer so as not to destroy any enzymes by dumping a lot of hot, boiling mash in all at one time. I have also read in Kunze that the addition of the decocted mash should be done slowly to avoid damaging the enzymes. So I figure between 5 and 10 minutes. This is what I have read in Kunze and Noonan. (Kunze International Edition "Technology Brewing and Malting". Page 217) >Also as soon as the main mash temp has stabilized I pull the 2nd decoction. >Save some time any starch will convert during the gentle heating. The decoction profiles that I have studied have said that you should let the mash sit for a while after adding the first decoction. Here is how Kunze describes an "abridged two mash process": "The mashing-in temperature is 62 C (143 F) and the process lasts only two hours - which gives rise to the name of the process, which can also be performed as a single mash process. The process requires well and uniformly modified malt. The mashing in-temperature of 62 C (143 F) is above the optimum temperature for protein breakdown although a good foam can be obtained. However, there is no B-glucan breakdown at all and so very well modified malt is essential for this method" (Kunze International Edition "Technology Brewing and Malting". Pages 217, 218) They don't describe it in the text, but the illustration shows: Mash in at 62 C (143 F), let rest for 30 minutes. Pull 1st decoction, raise to 71 C in 5 minutes, let decoction rest for 15 minutes. Then raise decoction in 10 minutes to boiling, let boil for 5 minutes. Add 1st decoction to mash over 5 minutes, raising mash-tun temp to 72 C, let rest for 30 minutes at 72 C. 2nd decoction: Pull mash, raise to boiling in 5 minutes, let boil 5 minutes. Return decocted grains to main mash over 5 minutes. This raises mash to around 77 C to 78 C (mash out temp)" Kunze calls for a 30 minute rest after adding the 1st decoction. So, we have different styles of decocting. But both work. You will please pardon me, but I am more of a "traditional brewer", meaning that when I brew a beer, I try and get the ingredients and the process that come from the beer's country of origin (Munich malt from Germany etc etc). I think it gives a more authentic beer, not just that I can say that it was brewed with German malt or "in the German Way", I think that in the end, the origin of the malt and the process of brewing has a lot to do with the authenticity of the flavour. But that's just my opinion. I will try your method of decocting once my brewing system arrives here in France. If it works for me I'll use it on my Lagers. Would you please send me your decoction profile? >DWC is a Belgian Malt from DeWolfe & Coysns (spelling may be incorrect) I've heard good and not so good stuff about DeWolf. That is not to say that they do not make excellent malt (I like / use there Pilsner Malt, great grain flavour!) Thanks, (and thanks in advance for the decoction profile) Prost! Mark mark at awfulquiet.com (please use this e-mail address) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 00:02:13 +0930 From: "Thomas D. Hamann" <tdhamann at senet.com.au> Subject: Re: attaching labels to bottles G'day Brett, use good old nectar of moo - "milk" - to attach your labels, just make sure you use milk and not creamer! tdh Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 09:46:19 -0500 From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) Subject: RE: Sinology and Sodomy >>>>>> From: "Dr. Pivo" <irv at wireworks.se> ....I may not be the most talented English speaker, but I do know that "we" is a "collective" or "plural" pronoun, and requires it to be more than "one" before being used..... <<<<<< Two possible quirks may be the exception: * The pregnant woman. * The man with a tapeworm :>)) Ron Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 08:27:08 -0700 From: "Daske, Felix" <DaskeF at bcrail.com> Subject: Keggerator; was beer tower About 2 weeks ago I had posted a 'cheesy' ASCII diagram of my bar, and a request information regarding the installation of a beer tower (tap). The feed lines for the tap were to run 8', from the [ok, let's call it a ... ] basement, through the floor, to the bar. I would like to thank the members of the HBD for taking the time to respond to my questions. For those that are interested, I have included some of the comments at the end of this note. Based on these responses, and some net surfing I have done, I am rethinking my original plan. Would those of you who have built a keggerator be so kind as to provide some guidance? If you know of some 'web handles' which would help just include them, instead of repeating things here. Some points that come to mind are... o What brand of towers? o Where purchased? o Design and method. kind regards, Felix Fallen Rock Home Brewery "beer from the earth" - --------------------------------- At the risk of boring the beejeebees out of all of you I will paraphrase some of the responses. Several people were kind enough to offer some suggestions - Al Korzonas of Lockport, IL began by saying that the 8' rise should not pose a problem and that I can easily compensate for excessive foam [on my pours] by varying the diameter of the supply hose. Al went on to say that I may want to consider running the supply hose through a cooling jacket, to keep the beer in the line cool. In closing, Al warned that keeping the tap clean may be a challenge. John Wilkinson of Grapevine, Texas suggested that the amount of beer in the line was negligible (~ 3 oz.) and cooling should not be a problem. In response to Al's warning concerning mold growth on the tap, Curt Abert, of Champaign, IL, suggested that keeping the tap at ambient room temperature all but eliminated his mold problem. - ------- // end // ------- Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 11:28:33 -0400 From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: RIMS sparge recirc, magnesium hops , Dr. Peevo, outatown Brewsters: Sandy asks about using the RIMS sparge water kettle as a recepticle for the sparged solution and recirculating this until sparging is finished. An important part of this "on the fly" sparging is the idea of plug flow. Fresh water at the top of the column pushes out the wort, leaving a much lower concentration of sugar in the following water. This is the most efficient method of extraction in which wort in the grains flows into essentially pure water Otherwise, you would be losing valuable sugar contained in the grains ( think of them like tiny sponges) at the same concentration or higher than the recirculated wort at the end of your recirculation sparge. - ------------------------------------ Paul Schick asks about using magnesium because he saw some yellowing on his hop bines at summer's end. Several things can cause this. If it was at the bottom, likely your bines needed some nitrogen, since hops borrow nitrogen from the bottom and carry it to new growth. Use slow acting nitrogen, however, as you may get bine growth ( vegetative) instead of cones. If it was all over, but more devastating at the bottom it may have been a verticillium wilt or fusarium wilt - just like your tomato plants. I suggest you get a soil sample and tell the county extension specialist what you want to grow. Both magnesium and boron should be checked. Boron may need replacing year to year. - ----------------------------------- "Dr. Pivo" - Penis Jokes?? is that the best you can do? Makes me wonder why you use a false name and talk about going behind the barn. - ----------------------------------- I'll be outatown for a couple of weeks or so and I will answer any e-mail and HBD comments when I return. Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 09:02:34 -0700 (PDT) From: erniebaker at webtv.net (ernest baker) Subject: Trub Afraid I need help in this area: Trub 1. When is the correct time to whirlpool the wort in the brewpot, when it is hot or cool? 2. When I rack from brewpot to primary I go through a 8-9 inch strainer, this captures a lot of hops. 3 My primary is a Wiliams Siphonless fermenter, I end up with plenty of trub and yeast sediment on the bottom so that when I turn the valve on, I get a lo of sediment into the secondary. How do I over come this? 4. I read that I could rack to a bucket, let it settle, rack it off the trub to the primary and than pitch the yeast. Is this the answer?? 5. I don't use a chiller, I use ice and can cool it down to pitching temp in 20 to 30 minutes. We're talking 3 gallons of hot wort. Any ideas out there?? Ernie Baker 29 Palms, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 11:15:31 -0500 From: "Humphrey,Patrick" <patrick.humphrey at abbott.com> Subject: Great Taste of the Midwest - Ticket Inquiry Thought I would pass this along to the digest regarding tickets for this year's Great Taste of the Midwest in Madison... On Fri, 7 May 1999 10:38:28 -0500 "Humphrey,Patrick" writes: >Hi, > >I was wondering when the tickets for this year's Great Taste of the >Midwest would go on sale. I haven't seen a posting in the Homebrew Digest >about it yet and would like to order some tickets. > >Thanks, > >Pat Humphrey >= > Subject: Re: Ticket Inquiry Thanks for the reminder--I don't read HBD much if at all anymore, and it slipped my mind with everything else going on. Let me know if http:/www.globaldialog.com/madbrewers doesn't answer all your questions about getting tickets. Now go have a beer, . Bob Paolino, Vice President Madison Homebrewers & Tasters Guild and the Great Taste of the Midwest<sm> Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 17:51:01 +0200 From: mark <shrike.cars at accesinternet.com> Subject: Re: Re: honey beer Brian, >>I don't know much about priming with honey (or beer with honey) but >>wouldn't what Dave wrote below then just ferment in the keg? Leaving >>>...couldnt you just add some paturized honey at kegging time and >>>force carbonate? I'm just curious. >>>Dave >It would work fine for most ales, as they would not ferment at cold temps-- >depends on the yeast and how cold you keep your kegs exactly how much it >would ferment. Drawing pints, you could easily tell if some pressure was >building. Cornelius kegs will hold a good deal of pressure, well beyond >what would be total foam at the tap. >--Brian Well, if that is true, wouldn't you get a sweet beer? I've done the overcarbonation in the keg thing... (someone else decided to up the pressure in my keg to get some beer out) Opened the tap to pour a pitcher... I lost my grip on the little "tap" and it proceeded to conver my ceiling and the rest of my brewing room with beer..... Not good! Prost! Mark Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 13:11:00 -0400 From: Eric.Fouch at steelcase.com Subject: Widget Free Guinness Head HBD- Alan Meeker wants to know about autoclave resistant organisms: >So, does anyone have any REFERENCES on the existence of autoclave-resistant >life forms?? Perhaps Dinococcus radiodurans is somewhat resistant, I'll have >to check my notes... Enquiring Minds Want To Know!! Believe it or not, Fred has been toying around with a few of these organisms in The Bent Dick HPL (High Pressure Laboratory). I try to tell him he needs to wear his pressure suit in there, but he complains that the suits irritates his hemorrhoids. Anyway, Fred's goal is to develop a way to deliver a rich, N2 containing Guinness-like head on his brews without the use of a widget. He started working with Methanococcus jannaschii, which, as you know, has nitrogen fixing properties. Unfortunately, this organism performs best at 94C and 200 atmospheres. Man, that's murder on the eardrums! (By the way, Alan, this organism may be capable of surviving a properly functioning autoclave, (http://www.ncgr.org/microbe/methanococcustxt.html) so watch it!) After some reconstructive surgery at the local Otorhynolaryngoligist, Fred turned his attentions to Azotobacter vinelandii, which is also a nitrogen fixer, and it works at STP. He's not sure whether to pitch this bacterium with the yeast, or with the dry hops. At least his ears have stopped bleeding. >Why is it these 'threads' always degenerate into an >irritating shouting match? Why can't we have positive >threads, like, Hey I tried Nottingham yeast and it >rocks, or Hey, if you like bitter and spicy beers you >should try Chinook hops (my rhizomes have sent up >their first shoot - it is about 4 inches tall now! >Yes!) BECAUSE DRY YEAST SUCKS, AND CHINOOK ARE TOO HARSH! >The hops are looking so good this year, I don't want to >screw it up. Thanks in advance for any information/experiences. Paul Shick Paul- I had the same trouble with my hops last year. 2 tablespoons of Epsom Salts spread around the base of each hops plant did wonders. >I'm not a Wit lover and I only make them for my sister when she visits from >Chicago.That is until I made my latest batch. What I don't like about the >Wheat beers in general is the flavor especially with the Weihenstephan >yeast. Rob- I think you are confusing Wits and Wiesses. You shouldn't use Weihnstephan in a Wit. You shouldn't use unmalted wheat in a Wiess. You shouldn't go behind a barn with Dave Burley or Dr. Pivo. Make full disclosure of any and all squirrel activities. Also, be sure to grip the cat's tail extra hard, as you may only acheive a skining effect, and not true vertebral separation. Eric Fouch Head Pressure Gauge Calibrator Bent Dick YoctoBrewery and HPL Facility Kentwood, MI Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 13:39:16 EDT From: VQuante at aol.com Subject: Polish Language Jim Kingsberg wrote: >>> Along the same lines, the Polish toast, (and I havent a clue how to spell this), "nastrovya", is extremely similar to the Russian toast, "nasdrovya" (the point being that they arent quite spelled the same, nor pronounced the same though people who are not fluent wouldnt know the difference...). And by the way, I beleive the toasts translate to "to your health." <<< As Alan McKay (don't remember exactly, but weren't it you, Alan?) already told us - in nearly all slavic languages, beer ist called pivo - but Polish language doesn't know the letter "v", so Jim is right: In Polish language it's "piwo". And the toast is spelled "na zdrowie". In Russian language - on the other hand - you're always able to start a long discussion, wether it's "na zdrowie" or "za zdrowie" - the difference is "for the health" or "to the health". Never met two Russians, who had the same opinion, which toast is more convenient... They always solve the problem in a way like "nevertheless, the faster we drink, the better, even without such toasts..." :-) Volker Volker R. Quante Brunnenbraeu Homebrewery Brewing and working in Warsaw / Poland, but definitely a German Homebrewer Post scriptum: The Russian problem reminds me, that the British people are dicussing, aren't they?, whether it's "to the ladies" or "on the ladies"... ;-) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 11:12:13 -0700 From: "Bayer, Mark A" <Mark.Bayer at JSF.Boeing.com> Subject: veteran of the pivo wars collective homebrew conscience_ anybody have experience krausening and kegging bavarian weissbier? i''m doing a weizen this weekend and i plan on krausening it. it's a good experiment to compare with past non-krausened batches. my intent in krausening is simply to try it and see what the flavor impact is. first question: does it matter what yeast i use for the krausening? i will have an opportunity to use a freshly-fermenting munich helles as the gyle. i wonder if this lager yeast would dry the beer out more than if i used a weizen yeast for the gyle. should i mash a couple degrees hotter to account for this possibility, relative to my standard recipe, or is the attenuative difference probably in the noise? also, to keep the wheat/barley malt ratio the same, i guess i should increase the wheat malt % slightly. i can krausen in the secondary and let it ferment out for a few days before kegging, or i can rack into the keg and krausen it there. obviously i would have to continue releasing pressure as the ferment continued. what are the advantages/disadvantages of each? if i do use the munich helles as the gyle, should i krausen the batch and then immediately start to ramp the temps down to start a lagering process? is diacetyl (sorry, doc - different style here) production a problem when krausening with a lager gyle at ale fermentation temps (~68 f)? am i correct in believing that the diacetyl production of the gyle depends more on the helles batches' initial fermentation temp, and by the time i pitch the gyle into the weizen, it's not going to be a major diacetyl producer, but rather a diacetyl reducer? i don't anticipate that there will be significant diacetyl in the weizen batch at the time of krausening. on this topic, i assume i pitch the gyle when it is in full-blown high krausen. (?) basically, i'm looking for advice based on experience and any pitfalls i should avoid. i'm considering writing an article for bt or zymurgy. potential topic: _the massive flavor impact of hydroxyapatite in beijing breweries_. brew hard, mark bayer stlmo Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 14:12:51 -0400 From: "Philip J Wilcox" <pjwilcox at cmsenergy.com> Subject: Potassium Sorbate in beers??? Hi all, I have used Potassium Sorbate in my mead making to prevent further fermentation before. But I have never used it in brewing. I have 2 kegs of (10 gal) of Am. Wheat for a party next weekend. I would like to split them into 3'rds and make a honey wheat, a raspberry wheat and leave one alone just in case... I would also like to bottle some of these up for competitions especially the raspberry wheat. Any suggestions? Anyone have proceedures for pasturizing a corny keg in a 1/2 bbl keg of boiling (or near boiling) water?? Phil Wilcox Poison Frog Home Brewer Warden-Prison City Brewers In Jackson, MI 32 Mi. West of Jeff Renner AABG, AHA, BJCP, HBD, MCAB, ETC., ad nausium... Return to table of contents
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