HOMEBREW Digest #3082 Wed 14 July 1999

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  On Weizens (Teutonic Brewer)
  Re: effluvia and Ice Cream Mixer motors (Jim & Paula Adwell)
  wort chilling with a dehumidifier(?!) (Jim & Paula Adwell)
  keg physics (Scott Murman)
  michiganders and yankees ("St. Patrick's")
  Berliner Weisse and raspberry? (Dick Dunn)
  Results of My Aeration at Bottling Experiment ("Dennis Johnson")
  Lallemand, CABA & The AHA (Darryl Newbury)
  Denver Brewpubs (Matt Dickson)
  mash-out help (John_E_Schnupp)
  Secret Squirrels and Charlie P is Gunna Cop It!! ("Phil and Jill Yates")
  Aeration ("David M. Campbell")
  Is there a Dr in the house? ("Alan McKay")
  Why no basement? ("Kelly")
  Praise beer! New Glarus Copper Kettle wheat ("Jim Kingsberg")
  Yeast health question (Eric Reimer)
  re:prechilling (Matthew Comstock)
  Basements (Dan Listermann)
  Narrow range pH test strips (Eric Reimer)
  2000 AHA NHC: MIY2K (Pat Babcock)
  Pumps ("Frank J. Russo")
  titles ("Paul Niebergall")
  re: warm tap water in chillers... (Steven Sanders)
  Aplication of Science and Big Boys Techniques ("Paul Niebergall")
  pLambic Brewing (Matthew Arnold)
  Surveys (Michael Rose)
  re: where has all the irony gone? pivo pivo pivo (Robin Griller)
  Basements (Greg Tucker)
  oxidation: measurable? ("Bayer, Mark A")
  from Propane to Natural Gas ("John Stegenga")
  Brewpubs in Lakewood/Denver area ("Charles T. Major")
  RE:Making the seal for fridge line (John Wilkinson)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 16:02:42 -0600 From: Teutonic Brewer <claassen at swcp.com> Subject: On Weizens Hi Dave Riedel and the HBD crowd, Some thoughts on brewing a Dunkelweizenbier from a self-professed, traditionalist, German style beer brewer and Reinheitsgebot fascist. Please take my suggestions with a few grains of salt (preferably in the form of a Bavarian style Pretzel :-) since I tend to be slightly extreme in the lengths to which I will go. I find that a decoction or two increases the bready character of my Weizens. Weizens are the only beer that I feel really benefits from a decoction, and they're the only thing I (still) decoct. Not to say that infusion or step mashing won't produce a fine product, so please no fiery arrows from the decoction vs infusion vs RIMS partisans. Try a single decoction between the 50C protein rest and the 62-64C saccharification reset, or between the saccharification rest and the 70-72C dextrinization rest. As far the malt bill, go easy on the dark roasted malts. Most of the color comes from Munich and medium to dark crystal malts. If you add any roasted malts at all, try one to two ounces chocolate malt per 5 gallons, just enough to add a _subtle_ roastiness. So many of the Dunkelweizens that I've had the (mis)pleasure to judge have tasted like a cross between a Dunkelweizen and a Porter. As far as hopping a _Dunkelweizen_ goes, I concurr with Michael William Macaeyka's advice of a single noble hop addition at the first of the boil. OTOH, I'll hop a pale Weizen with three equal additions at 60, 40 and 20 minutes to go in the boil. I use any low alpha noble stuff for the first two additions, and prefer Tettnanger for the third. Weizens also benefit from sour mash in a big way. Try a Franziskaner Hefe-Weizen and taste the crisp lactic acidity that makes it so refreshing. I've used sour mash for years in my Weizens, and those who have judged my Weizens love it although none have ever been able to name what I did! I sour mash up to 15% of the Pils malt for 24-48 hours for a pale Weizen and 8-10% for a dark Weizen. The 1993 Special issue of Zymurgy has an article from Greg Noonan on sour mash. If you'd like to know how I do it, drop me a private note. I have found 64-66F produces the most balanced Weizens using Wyeast 3068 when pitching the usual homebrew sized starter. Fermenting a little colder seems to increase the clove character (or maybe it suppresses the other esters and phenols so the clove is more dominant), but that requires pitching more yeast. Which you can do if you repitch, of course. I'll save a couple quarts of wort from the brew kettle to use instead of corn sugar for priming at bottling. I'll either pressure can (rarely) or boiling water can (usually) the wort to preserve it. It gives better character, a better head and big time lace than does corn sugar, at least in my experience for what it's worth. If you want to know how I calculate how much to prime, drop me a private note again (BTW, this issue was discussed in HBD a couple weeks ago). Prost! Paul Claassen (aka Teutonic Brewer) Albuquerque, Chile Republic of New Mexico Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 18:38:24 -0400 From: Jim & Paula Adwell <jimala at servtech.com> Subject: Re: effluvia and Ice Cream Mixer motors >What website Mike? I've found some excellent sites >through the HBD on making RIMS or mixmashers, but >something that uses an >Ice Cream motor may be more fitting for my admittedly poor >gadget-making >skills. Mike could be refering to my website: http://home.ptdprolog.net/~jimala/brewery/ as I use an ice creamer maker motor and paddle. It works very nicely in a 5 gallon plastic bucket. It required a bit of modification, as originally the paddle was stationary and the ice cream bucket turned. The mods require a small nail, some odds and ends of wood and plywood, a length of 1/2" wooden dowel, and a small SS hose clamp. I leave the details as an exercise to the reader (heh, heh). It's not hard to figure out, though. Cheers, Jim Jim & Paula Adwell jimala at ptdprolog.net jimala at servtech.com jimala at apical.com adwell at uno.cc.geneseo.edu http://www.servtech.com/public/jimala/ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 18:52:17 -0400 From: Jim & Paula Adwell <jimala at servtech.com> Subject: wort chilling with a dehumidifier(?!) I just bought a dehumidifier at a garage sale (for $10, and it works, too) with the intention of using it to cool a fermentation chamber of some sort for use in the summer in my garage so I don't have to lug carboys into the house, or worse yet, down the stairs to the basement. After removing the case and carefully separating the heating and cooling coils, it looks like something could be done along these lines rather easily, and cheaply. After reading the recent postings about the problems of cooling wort with tepid tap water, perhaps one could somehow pre-chill one's tap water with a dehumidifier. Just a thought. Anyone out there have any experience in converting a dehumidifier into a chiller/refrigerator? Cheers, Jim Jim's Brewery Pages: http://home.ptdprolog.net/~jimala/brewery/ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 16:05:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott Murman <smurman at best.com> Subject: keg physics I just started using a keg setup. Before I get out my hacksaw, is there a (good) reason why the gas tube extends so far down into the keg (about 2")? It seems to me this just wastes otherwise useful space for storing beer. -SM- Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 18:30:39 -0500 From: "St. Patrick's" <stpats at bga.com> Subject: michiganders and yankees It's funny to see how the simple remark "Michiganders and other yankees" in my earlier post can generate such conversation. Soamwhoan ben cudrin' mheah widm tan'bfust drang. --- from Dave Barry's "The Thomas hearings, unexpurgated" Yankees can email any southerner to interpret this. I should confess my own sins. I am married to a native Michigander born on 12 mile road outside the Soo (close to Dafter). Deah wheah etn lonsh yep? Lynne O'Connor St. Patrick's of Texas Brewers Supply http://www.stpats.com stpats at bga.com 512-989-9727 512-989-8982 facsimile Return to table of contents
Date: 12 Jul 99 18:18:27 MDT (Mon) From: rcd at raven.talisman.com (Dick Dunn) Subject: Berliner Weisse and raspberry? I've heard of the custom of adding a dash of raspberry juice to a Berliner Weisse. Having never been that far east, I don't quite know...Could some- one confirm or correct that it is specifically straight raspberry juice that is used, as opposed to a raspberry syrup (i.e., sweetened)? It sounded interesting, esp. since it's tediously hot here and we're overrun with raspberries. - --- Dick Dunn rcd at talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA (40 12 6 N, 105 10 42 W, or NE 1/4 of NW 1/4 of S25 T3N R70W, for Jeff) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 18:14:31 -0700 From: "Dennis Johnson" <pinetownd at volcano.net> Subject: Results of My Aeration at Bottling Experiment I've noticed a few posts lately about dogma and frivolous subjects, so here's my contribution to counter both topics. I have been brewing at home for ten years or so and have always been a little compulsive in my efforts to reduce aeration during bottling. A few months ago, I decided to stop useless worrying and to do an experiment instead. While bottling one of my "standard" pale ales using the spring-loaded plastic stick bottler, I "sacrificed" one bottle of my precious brew. Instead of bottling normally, I poured it back and forth, from one beer bottle to another, using a funnel, half a dozen times. The beer foamed excessively and made even a bigger mess than usual. I'm convinced I mixed lots of air into the beer. I bottled and marked the test bottle. I had almost two cases of "controls" bottles to compare it against. Six weeks after bottling, I did a "blind" taste test between the test bottle and one of my control bottles. I fully expected it to be undrinkable, but I couldn't tell any difference between the two. There are a number of possible explanations: 1. The "momily" we've always heard regarding the evils of aerating during bottling is a myth. 2. I have such lousy taste that I couldn't recognize an aerated beer if it hit me on the head. 3. There was something unusual about my recipe or my methods that masked the effect. (Maybe all the bottles were aerated?) My conclusion is that for me, and for my recipes and methods, even fairly aggressive aeration during bottling has no perceptible influence on my beer. In the future, I'll still try to avoid aeration, but I'm no longer going to worry about it. Of course, YMMV, but I'd enjoy hearing others' results from similar experiments. Just remember to do a "blind" tasting or otherwise you may unconsciously bias the results. Dennis Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 00:03:06 +0000 From: darryl at sagedesign.com (Darryl Newbury) Subject: Lallemand, CABA & The AHA As a officer of the Canadian Amateur Brewers Association, I think I should add my 1-1/2 cents worth -- Canadian money you know. Firstly, Lallemand has been supportive of our organization. Clayton Cone was a hit as one of our speakers at this year's Great Canadian Homebrew Conference and offered Lallemand's future assistance to our organization. Further, CABA is a volunteer run organization with a much smaller membership than the AHA, therefore any promotional gifts to us would likely be much smaller, although a scholarship to Siebels, though unlikely, would not be turned down (hint to Rob). That being said there are many great reasons for Canadians to join CABA (hint to Robin). A good newsletter, several great events & competitions in different parts of the country with a very reasonable $21 Canadian membership fee. At $38 US, close to $60 Canadian dollars, I personally find the cost of AHA membership kind of steep, especially since many of its activities don't effect me. That being said, with Detroit being just a 5 hour drive from Toronto, 3 hours when the President of CABA is driving, if the program for next year's AHA conference looks good -- I suspect there will be some interest from CABA members in Southern Ontario. So to those who are organizing the event, all the best, hope to be there sharing a few pints with you. Cheers, Darryl Newbury CABA Board of Directors & CABA Times Editor darryl at sagedesign.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 02:15:22 -0600 From: Matt Dickson <stuka at mindspring.com> Subject: Denver Brewpubs - ------------------------------ Jerry, You're in luck -- there are *plenty* of brewpubs not only in Denver, but in the surrounding areas and in the mountains close by as well. There is a high concentration of brewpubs in Lower Downtown ("LoDo"), all within walking distance of each other. If you take in a Rockies game while you are here. don't forget to stop adn have a brew at the Sandlot brewery, right on the grounds at teh ballpark -- ffrom thhere, after the game, jjust mosey across Blake street to the Breckenridge Brewery for a nice Oatmeal Stout....ffrom there, head south....don't forget to stop by the Falling Rock for a generous selection of of beers -- they have 69 on tap....it isn't a brewpub, but it's got the best selection of international draft Biers around....then you can head over to the Wynkoop Brewery, the Chop House, Jeeez, teh list goes on and on...... Also, the 5280 Roadhouse and Brewery just opened up in Littleton, fairly close to Lakewood. It's at 5798 South Rapp Street, (303) 795-9104. My eperience has been that most breweries in the area brew pretty much strictly ales as opposed to lagers....<sigh>..... Matt Jerry wrote: - ---------- Hi - I'll be in Denver (actually Lakewood) in a few weeks. Any recommendations for good brewpubs? Sorry if this is off-topic, but this is THE place to get advice from serious beer geeks! Thanks, Jerry - ------------------------------ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 00:39:03 -0700 From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com Subject: mash-out help Brewers, I just started all-grain brewing last fall and have been doing ok. Me beers have been turning out great and I even won with one of them in a local competitions. I have a question that I've never really gotten answered and have been wondering about it as I plan my next batch (strawberry watermelon, I canned the rhubarb idea for now). I do infusion mashing. When adding the water for mash-out the mash gets fairly "soupy" (at least it seems thinner than I'd like). I'm using a spreadsheet someone sent me that seems to indicate that the first runnings are drawn off before the water for mash-out is added. Is this correct? I've been having low efficiency and could see where it might increase my efficiency if I get the initial high sugar portion of the mash extracted before I boosted to mash-out. If it is correct to take the first running before going to mash-out, do I need to recirculate twice? Or do I add the mash-out water gently (sprinkler) so as not to disturb the grain-bed/filter I created during the recirculation I did to collect the first runnings? I think my beers have been turning out fine enough, I think that I should be having better efficiency than mid-60's. Any help is appreciated. John Schnupp, N3CNL Dirty Laundry Brewery Colchester, VT 95 XLH 1200 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 21:33:02 +1000 From: "Phil and Jill Yates" <yates at flexgate.infoflex.com.au> Subject: Secret Squirrels and Charlie P is Gunna Cop It!! The secret squirrel recently leaped out of the woods with his fur coat off to expose himself to us as Lester Long. Geez Lester, the last time someone did something similar we ended up with all sorts of less than desirable goings on behind a barn! Lester spoke of more useful purposes for Zymurgy magazine other than reading it, and the likely fate the messiah Charlie P. can look forward to! Lester is referring to comments made by some in the HBD. Without implicating the furless squirrel in any way (he just happened to raise the matter) I would like to ask just what is going on? I have been a member of the AHA for 12 months and am in the process of considering my renewal. Out here in the colonies we are not privy to in-house fighting and personally I do not understand the dislike displayed by some to Charlie P. From an outsiders point of view it looks a bit like this: Charlie P., an eccentric sort of chap, writes a few homebrew books, does very well out of them financially and now no one likes him. Regarding the Association, I have no clues as to what has caused so much anger. I am asking that someone may enlighten me on these matters. I must say to you all that the HBD is regarded by many potential contributors as something of a lions den, that is to say that you can expect to be shredded if you dare to get involved. Personally I don't mind a bit of a shredding, makes you sit back and look at yourself, but I am sad to think that many potential contributors don't want to get involved. So on the matter of the AHA and Charlie P., can I ask for an explanation? Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 07:57:07 -0400 From: "David M. Campbell" <David.Campbell at po-box.esu.edu> Subject: Aeration How long should I "aerate" the wort after pitching yeast? Also, what are some different methods? I usually stir in the liquid yeast and stir it well for 5-10 minutes before covering the bucket wit a lid and airlock. Am I giving the beer enough time to aerate? I worry about contamination and oxidation of the wort...but should I be giving it more time to aerate before covering it? Thanks in advance. Dave Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 08:33:03 -0400 From: "Alan McKay" <amckay at nortelnetworks.com> Subject: Is there a Dr in the house? Stephen Alexander on the one hand wants us to all read scientific journals like he does, thus giving us the impression he is an intelligent man. But on the other hand he thinks that the monaker "Dr Pivo" "apparently does mislead people". Come on, Stephen, you're not the only intelligent person on this digest. Do you think any of us really thought he was a Dr? Actually, for that matter, did anyone even bother to ask him if perhaps he was a Ph.D.? What conclusions we jump to in the name of science! cheers, -Alan - -- Alan McKay OS Support amckay at nortelnetworks.com Small Site Integration 613-765-6843 (ESN 395) Nortel Networks Internal : http://zftzb00d/alanmckay/ All opinions expressed are my own. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 07:43:07 -0500 From: "Kelly" <kgrigg at diamonddata.com> Subject: Why no basement? Well, here in New Orleans it is an easy answer....at any given part of the city you are around 18 ft below sea level. Heck, we even bury the dead here above ground so they don't come floating up after a good storm. I've grown up in the southeaster area for most of my life, and have seen very few basements, so, I'm guessing it is a regional thing. At least in the regions I've been around :-) But, it would be nice to have one. I start brewing an ale, and it churns right along at a lightning pace since my house gets easily into the upper 80's during the day. I can't afford to run the air all day when no one is there. And brewing lagers? Well, I'm going to have to wait till I can buy a freezer dedicated to brewing. My $0.02, Kelly Quoted Stuff: - --------------------------------------------------------\ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 09:09:47 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Basements Mark Tumarkin <mark_t at ix.netcom.com> wrote >That may not be necessary for some of you with >cool basements (damn Yankees!) Which brings up a somewhat non-brewing question (traffic is low, though) that has bothered me for years - why aren't basements standard in all of the country (excepting areas with rock right below the surface or high water tables)? They add very little to the cost of a house and double the square footage in the case of one story houses, or by 50% in the case of two stories. They are virtually standard around. Is it just a regional cultural thing? It would hardly seem that way given the great internal immigration this country has seen in its history. Yet they seem to be the exception in the south and the west. Any ideas? Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 08:02:59 -0500 From: "Jim Kingsberg" <jdkingsb at hewitt.com> Subject: Praise beer! New Glarus Copper Kettle wheat Brothers, sisters! I have been to the house of lager and I have seen the light. I just finished off a 6 pack of New Glarus Copper Kettle Wheat. And yea, it was good. Here comes the beer question: Does anyone have the recipe for this? This is an extremely tasty brew and seems like it would be quite easy to reproduce at home. Thanks in advance! (Im a believer in supporing your local brewery. Wisconsin is close enough.) Also, yankees, I beleive, refers to those folks north of the Mason-Dixon line (that is an extremely interesting engineering feat btw.) Yankee also refers to ALL United States citizens when outside of the US, particularly in Mexico and central america where I beleive the term originated, yanqui. Also, because of my "conversion" to the church of beer, I have sent in my $5 bucks and have become a reverend. Im still waiting on the fez tho'. Thanks and praise beer, Rev. Jim Fugowee Brewery and house of beer worship, Evanston, IL. (still working on rennerian coordinates) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 09:22:25 -0400 From: Eric Reimer <eric at etymonic.com> Subject: Yeast health question Hi all, I have a question regarding the health of a package of Yeast Labs Dortmunder Alt yeast (A07 I think). I was in my local HB supply shop looking for this yeast. Unfortunately, the only package left was one which had an expiration date of Feb 99. The shop keeper gave me the yeast for free if I wanted to try using it. The package claims that this is a sufficient quantity of yeast to ferment 19l of wort. However, I always step this quantity up at least twice before pitching. With such a long past expired date, will this yeast likely still be OK to use after stepping up? Would I be better to throw this yeast away and wait for a fresh package? All suggestions welcome. Cheers, Eric Reimer Barking Dogs Brewery London, Ontario Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 06:24:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Comstock <mccomstock at yahoo.com> Subject: re:prechilling I don't have a pump to recirculate ice water. Instead I took my bottling bucket and filled it with ice. I took the spigot and turned it around so the threads were on the outside of the bucket. I cooled the wort with the standard copper tubing immersion chiller until the water was running out cool-ish. I filled the bottling bucket part way with water from the chiller outlet. I plugged the outlet with my finger so the water stopped running out, turned off the water, and screwed the chiller inlet onto my bottling bucket. Reaching in the bucket, I turned the valve and continued to chill. I collected the water and dumped it back into the bottling bucket periodically until pitching temperature. Worked ok. Keeping a siphon was important, so the level of the bottling bucket had to be higher than the boil kettle. Matt Comstock in Cincinnati _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 09:26:55 -0400 From: Dan Listermann <72723.1707 at compuserve.com> Subject: Basements Jeff Renner ( nerenner at umich.edu) wonders about why there are much fewer basements in the south. I will refrain from taking cheap shots at the intelligence of those who would want to live down there much less invest in real estate. ( I am a now a fully recovered "damn yankee.") However this is my theory. In northern climes it is necessary to lay a foundation that will always be below the frost line. If you have to go that far, you might as well go a few feet further and get a decent basement. Yankee ingenuity. In Danville Kentucky, where I surcame to "damn yankeehood" there is another problem. The thin top soil covers solid rock. Anything below the surface needs to be blasted out. It appears that the local cemetary was piled there. Dan Listermann dan at listermann.com 72723.1707 at compuserve.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 09:34:17 -0400 From: Eric Reimer <eric at etymonic.com> Subject: Narrow range pH test strips Could some kind soul direct me to a source for the narrow range pH test strips which are discussed here occasionally? I have been unable to locate these locally. My local HB shopkeeper looks with a blank stare when I describe them. Oh where, oh where could they be? Cheers, Eric Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 23:44:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at mail.oeonline.com> Subject: 2000 AHA NHC: MIY2K Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... Darryl Newbury of the North states: > That being said, with Detroit being just a 5 hour drive from Toronto, 3 > hours if the President of CABA is driving, if next year's AHA conference > looks good -- I suspect there will be some interest in next years > conference from CABA members in Southern Ontario. So to those who are > organizing the event, all the best, hope to be there. We who are organizing the event are STRIVING to make it equally attractive - and just as easy to attend and participate - for those north of the border as it is to those living south of the border. We would welcome any suggestions you could offer for doing so as well! We would also be interested in hearing from any homebrew clubs in Windsor, Sarnia or environs of either who might be willing to work with us in coordinating Canadian entries for the competition as well. - See ya! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at oeonline.com Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/brew.html "Just a cyber-shadow of his former brewing self..." Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 09:56:03 -0400 From: "Frank J. Russo" <FJRusso at coastalnet.com> Subject: Pumps I am contemplating building a chiller and need to find a source for a submersible pump. Any recommendations? Of course web site are preferred. Frank Havelock, NC Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 08:59:31 -0500 From: "Paul Niebergall" <pnieb at burnsmcd.com> Subject: titles -S writes in HBD 3081: >People 'measure up' when they have obtained the skills their earned titles >imply and NOT when they start using a false title. Refusing to use a false >earned title is no disrespect. What you are saying is that anyone who >wants to put Ph.D or M.D. behind his name should do so ? And to point this >out is an offense to the person ? To my mind using such a title w/o >credentials is a very serious offense to all the people who have had to work >so hard for them. >Still the Dr.Pivo title was whimsical pseudonym and not intended to defraud >as I said before. But it apparently does mislead people about the actual >credentials involved, particularly when discussing a technical topic. And >there was to my mind no harm in reminding the newer readers that this is a >pseudonym. I have a question that I would like to see added to the proposed HBD survey if it becomes a reality: Are you as feeble minded as Mr. -S is to believe that the person signing his articles "Dr. Pivo" was actually a doctor? There is a guy here in K.C. called Dr. Ribs. He caters parties with a huge smoker on wheels and makes some of the best ribs around. I guess I should call the AMA and have them start some kind of legal action because when I was at a party last summer, Dr. Ribs gave me some medical advice concerning a boil on my hind quarters. He seemed like such a nice guy....... Dr. Beer aka Paul Niebergall Burns & McDonnell pnieb at burnsmcd.com "Illegitimis non carborundum" Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 09:55:33 -0500 From: Steven Sanders <ssanders at microlink.net> Subject: re: warm tap water in chillers... A thought had occured to me while reading about the problems of warm tap water in chillers... Has anyone ever used or attempted to use a vortex tube to cool down the tap water to a reasonable temperature? Id have to go back and read what little literature I have on vortex tubes, but it seems like you could power it with tap pressure. Id be interested in hearing what the engineers out there think about the idea... Regards, Steven Sanders Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 10:41:56 -0500 From: "Paul Niebergall" <pnieb at burnsmcd.com> Subject: Aplication of Science and Big Boys Techniques Maybe were are all thinking to closely about the subject of beer. I would like to take us "out of the box" (Ooh, I always wanted to use that term) and look at things from a different angle. For my example I would like to take us into an area that is closely related, but not as hotly contested or as highly emotional (at least not in this forum): baking. I dont think anyone out there can argue the brewing and baking are, if not essentially identical processes, extremely close cousins. So let me ask: If you wanted to make nice crusty, yeasty, sour-dough rolls (umm, I hungry), would you research the techniques used by Wonder Bread? How about if you wanted to make some rich, fluffy, french pastries with cream filling (eau Claire, perhaps), would you research how Twinkies are made? No you would not, because producing these products has nothing to do with quality baking at home. Oh, you can bet all the home brew in your basement that Hostess has spent millions researching the Twinkie. I bet the available information would fill volumes. However, I make bread and occasional french pastries at home and never once researched the techniques used by Hostess, Wonder Bread, Dolly Madison, or the Tasty Cakes Corporation. Why would I? I get my information from trusted cook books and T.V. shows. Gasp, did I say T.V.? - that wasteland you say, considered a quality source of information? Well you should check out Emeril Lagasse some time. I have never seen him start spouting chemical formulas concerning the Malliard reactions involved in browning a pork chop! Anyway I use the techniques that I have learned and apply them until I get it the way I want it to be. Nothing else. All the science in the world wont help my baking. Why would it help my brewing?? Oh, I guess some could say that I have a "Closed Mind" and that I should do more research and not be so quick to judge. I guess for those of you that think you need to do these things, go right ahead. I dont have to because I have this incredible knack for making good judgments concerning the applicability of the information available to me. I dont call being closed minded, I call being intelligent. I hope this little analogy opens a few eyes and minds. Paul Niebergall Burns & McDonnell pnieb at burnsmcd.com "Illegitimis non carborundum" Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 16:19:40 GMT From: marnold at ez-net.com (Matthew Arnold) Subject: pLambic Brewing At New Year's I tried a lambic for the first time, Boon Mariage Parfait Kriek to be exact. My wife hated it (I think that's an understatement) but I loved it (also an understatement). I've since tried various Boon and Lindemans products with my all-time favorite being Boon Geuze. I find most of the Lindemans products (with the notable exception of their Cuvee' Rene' Gueuze) to be too sweet, with their Kriek even having a strong cherry cough syrup taste to it (no flames, thanks, that's my personal opinion, nothing more). I'm trying to find some Cantillon products, but I don't know how widely they are imported (if at all). I've read Jim Liddil's "Liddil Lambic Lesson" and am in the process of reading Guinard's "Lambic" from cover to cover. I hope to make a batch this summer, which might be ready by time the millennium really changes on December 31, 2000. I'm looking for any insights others might be able to provide. Specifically, I'm looking for answers to these questions: 1) Liddil talks about using polycarbonate (PC) plastic bottles for fermenting. Are these the bottles normally used in water dispensers (big translucent blue bottles)? If so, this would be ideal as many plambic brewers seem to prefer fermenting in plastic and you can see all the action going on. 2) Any suggestions for pitching schedules for the Brett and P. damnosus? Has anyone used or has success with Wyeast's 3278 blend? From what I read it's a regular ale yeast, brett, and some lactic bacteria all in one. Obviously, this would be the simplest solution, but is it the best (or even a good) way to go? 3) I plan on using a 6# of pale ale malt and 3# of flaked wheat grist. I don't think I'll try turbid mashing, maybe a single-step infusion in the mid to upper 150s F and sparge with extra hot (190s F) sparge water. I realize that my chances of making Boon Geuze at home are extremely slim. But I want to take a shot at it anyway. If it comes out way off balance, I'll try to let it sit or make another batch and blend. I have no problem waiting a year or two for the finished product. Thanks! Matt - ----- Webmaster, Green Bay Rackers Homebrewers' Club http://www.rackers.org info at rackers.org Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 09:09:45 -0700 From: Michael Rose <mrose at ucr.campuscw.net> Subject: Surveys In regards to the thread on brewing surveys; I would like to see multiple, in-depth surveys. Each brewers would fill out that part of the survey that pertains to their area of expertise. Some multiple survey ideas 1) Making starters 2) Overall sanitation 3) Kegging 4) ph adjustment Etc, etc. If any of the more knowledgeable posters were to do a 2 page survey and try to cover all aspects of brewing the info covered would be to brief. Why not have them post more in depth on a single subject. The more general brewers, such as myself, could post something more like an outline of their brewing procedure. Asking Pat to do this survey is like asking Steve Alexander to cure cancer or John Palmer to build another Golden Gate Bridge. Anyway, Hurry up and get on it Pat! Mike Rose Riverside, CA mrose at ucr.campuscw.net Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 12:23:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Robin Griller <rgriller at chass.utoronto.ca> Subject: re: where has all the irony gone? pivo pivo pivo Dear Mr. Alexander, Just a quick response to your response. I'd like to preface it by saying that your sending of the post privately prior to its appearance on hbd is appreciated. The unfortunate thing about your post is that you have completely misunderstood my argument. In agreement with Dr Pivo, I believe that authority (i.e. in technical +/or scientific discussions, having a claim to possess the truth) is *not* conferred by position or title. That is, being a doctor or physicist does not mean that one's statements on medicine or physics are necessarily true. So, holding positions and having titles does *not* confer authority (thus Dr Pivo's insistence on scientific experiment; the texts and the scientists don't *possess* truth, the search for truth is generally available). Thus, with regards to science, no one 'possesses' authority in this sense. Given that, calling Dr Pivo Dr Pivo is no more and no less a conferral of authority than calling him Jeff or Mr Irvine. *You* are the one beginning from a belief that titles confer authority, not me; that's why calling Dr Pivo Dr Pivo bothers *you*. My post was simply to point out that your finding it difficult to call Dr Pivo Dr Pivo was based on your own misunderstanding of what he was saying. Get it? So, all this silliness about kings and queens is based on a misunderstanding. If we are to mention our egalitarian 'credentials', as a person who in earlier times, perhaps, would have been referred to as a 'red', or at least a pinko!, I would be less than happy if anyone were to refer to me as King anything! Well, excepting perhaps King Ludd, as everyone is or can be King Ludd! Even all at the same time! Hmmnn, Dr Pivo anybody? I (and I'm certain everybody else) would prefer to let this drop or, if necessary, continue it privately, though I certainly would understand if you were to respond publically one final time and promise to avoid public response if at all possible (an escape hatch!). Sincerely, Robin Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 07:50:20 -0700 From: Greg Tucker <gktucker at TID.ORG> Subject: Basements Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> wrote >Which brings up a somewhat non-brewing question (traffic is low, though) >that has bothered me for years - why aren't basements standard in all of >the country (excepting areas with rock right below the surface or high >water tables)? They add very little to the cost of a house and double the >square footage in the case of one story houses, or by 50% in the case of >two stories. They are virtually standard around. Is it just a regional >cultural thing? It would hardly seem that way given the great internal >immigration this country has seen in its history. Yet they seem to be the >exception in the south and the west. Any ideas? I'm in the process of building my own custom home in California. Being a homebrewer, I wanted a brew friendly home. Therefore I stubbed a propane line in the garage for my burner, put in a large basin sink, and tried like hell to incorporate a basement into the house. However, I quickly found out that the cost of a basement was prohibitively expensive. In California and other warm weather climates, the stem wall for a house only needs to go into the ground 18" because the frost line is virtually non-existent. Back east and up north I understand that a stem wall must go into the ground 42". Quite a difference! Not to let a little extra concrete and trenching discourage me, I proceeded with design. I wanted all the house mechanicals in the basement (water heater, furnace, etc). The uniform building code would not allow this. In the area I am building, I will use propane gas for all heating. Propane is heavier than air. The code says that no propane fired mechanicals can be installed below grade due to the potential of trapping gas in a pocket. Even with all the discouraging news I continued my design. Without the mechanicals I figured I could get by with a small basement just for fermenting. The county planners required a window for ingress/egress for any space larger than 10'x10'. They also wanted a french drain, electrical placed in conduit, etc. I sent the design out for bids and received prices in the neighborhood of $30,000. All this for a 10'x10' room. My solution? Shitcan the basement and buy a chest freezer, which I immediately did. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 10:50:47 -0700 From: "Bayer, Mark A" <Mark.Bayer at JSF.Boeing.com> Subject: oxidation: measurable? collective homebrew conscience_ spencer wrote: >By using "best practices" <snip> oxidation defects can be reduced to a >minimum, even in quite old beer.<snip> the other night, several of us had the >pleasure to sample a 6-year-old bottle of Orval, which had been >hand-carried from the brewery in 1993, and stored in a cellar (in >Michigan) since then. It was definitely past the "best by" date (Jan >1998, as I recall). There was a touch of oxidation (cardboard, >mostly) in the flavor, but the beer still had a lot of character and >was quite drinkable. By this time, the Brett characteristics had >grown to dominate, but hop aroma and flavor, and malt flavors were >also still in evidence. Clearly, this beer was brewed and bottled >with great care. does anybody know if orval uses transfer and bottling techniques that discourage air exposure and headspace air? if they do, this might be useful info. for those of you brewing strong styles of ale that want to condition at cellar temps. also, is it possible to measure oxidation effects quantitatively? i'm not referring to measuring headspace air; i'm talking about somehow quantifying the oxidized compounds in the finished beer. if there is, it would be interesting to examine data for bottle-conditioned beers as a function of some of the "input" variables (headspace air, yeast strain, storage temp and time). brew hard, mark bayer, i mean, dr. hfuhrrurruurrrhh stl mo Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 14:16:28 -0400 From: "John Stegenga" <bigjohns at mindspring.com> Subject: from Propane to Natural Gas Greetings all. After a year of lurking and reading the digest posts to in rec.crafts.brewing I've decided to leach in person <GRIN>. I've found many interesting and informative posts here and thought I'd probe the list for information concerning the "how to" of converting a low pressure (30-35kbtu) propane burner to natural gas. The one I'm eyeballing right now is a CampChef stove, with 2x30K burners. The campchef people say I can just switch the input gas from LP to NAT and bang (err, wrong choice of phrase!) off we go with 2x25k burners. The tech guy left me a voicemail (which subsequently got lost as our company voicemail system tanked...) that included something about drilling or replacing the orafice to boost the btu's back up. Others have said there is a chart that actually says how big to make it for (x)Kbtus... Now I know you guys do a lot of plumbing on those fancy mash systems of yours <GRIN>, but I was wondering if there are any GAS guys out there.... Also, I'm in the process of building my mashing system (after 21 batches of extract/partial mash) using a couple 48qt coleman coolers I picked up at KAYMART for $13.00 each. I plan on plumbing the mash tun with a copper manifold (already posted that on the brewery web group). Anyone know what sort of tubing to buy from home depot that will hold up to the temps? What sort of ball valve should I install on the liquor tank, etc. In general, lots of help needed here. I think I can get the manifold done, but from there I'm lost! (ok, not quite lost - I have already built my immersion chiller) Anyway, thanks to all in advance! I'm looking forward to brewing with this setup in a week or so - my 80qt AL pot is already on it's way here! John Stegenga (aka Bigjohn) (brewery name under consideration) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 17:03:49 -0500 (Central Daylight Time) From: "Charles T. Major" <ctmajor at samford.edu> Subject: Brewpubs in Lakewood/Denver area I don't have too many details, but just last night my wife told me about a mention of Wynkoop's (in Denver) by Kurt Vonnegut in his recent book _Timequake_. It seems that one of Vonnegut's ancestors was a brewer before prohibition and brewed an award-winning beer flavored with coffee. Wynkoop's has brewed a coffee-flavored beer in his honor called something along the lines of Kurt's Mile-High Ale. Seems worth checking out to me. Does anyone have further info? Regards, Tidmarsh Major Birmingham, Alabama Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 17:16:35 -0500 From: John.Wilkinson at aud.alcatel.com (John Wilkinson) Subject: RE:Making the seal for fridge line Sandy Cockerham asked about how to seal the gas pipe through the side of a serving fridge. I didn't get a chance to respond to this earlier. On one of my serving refrigerators I used a stainless nipple I got from a local shop that is no longer in business. It was the same size as the CO2 compression fitting and had a couple of lock nuts and washers to draw it up tight. I just drilled a hole very close to the nipple size and didn't worry about sealing. Unfortunately, I have no idea where to get another nipple like it. On my other fridge I used a copper 1/4 inch NPT nipple with an adapter on the outside that went from 1/4 NPT to a Cornelius gas in QD post. I think a 1/4 inch compression fitting for the gas line fit the inside so I guess it was really the same as the stainless one. I used fender washers on this nipple to spread the load on the fridge walls. Again, I used no sealant, just drilled the hole to very nearly the same size as the nipple. I doubt enough air gets through to matter. I like using the Cornelius type (actually, I think it was Firestone but still fits the QD) fitting on the outside because it makes it easier to disconnect the CO2 tank for transferring and carbonating beer. I got the gas in post and adapter from South Bay Homebrew Supply in Torrance, California, (800) 608-BREW. I am just a satisfied customer. They seem to have a lot of keg parts, by the way. John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas Return to table of contents
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