HOMEBREW Digest #3136 Tue 05 October 1999

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Cut Off In Mid Flight ("Phil and Jill Yates")
  Pap Zap Setup (Bill Steadman)
  Re: Where went the Brewery? (Greg Remake)
  hop teas, FWH, and Windsor dry yeast questions ("Czerpak, Pete")
  Zapap, drilling enamel, (Dave Burley)
  RE: help with Full Sail Amber ale recipe ("Pat Galvin")
  Hurrah! (David A Bradley)
  FW: beer song (Ian Smith)
  Brewery (pbabcock)
  mini-kegs vs. soda kegs (MVachow)
  Welcome Back, Thanks  and AHA ("Rick Wood")
  bucket with bazillion holes in it (amgrady)

* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! * The HBD now hosts eight digests related to this and a few other hobbies. * The latest are the Gadgeteers Digest (gadget at hbd.org) and the Home * Brew Shop Owners' Discussion Forum (brewshop at hbd.org). * Send an email note to majordomo at hbd.org with the word "lists" on one * line, and "help" on another (don't need the quotes) for a listing and * instructions for use. Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org. **SUBSCRIBE AND UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS MUST BE SENT FROM THE E-MAIL ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!** IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, the autoresponder and the SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE commands will fail! Contact brewery at hbd.org for information regarding the "Cat's Meow" Back issues are available via: HTML from... http://hbd.org Anonymous ftp from... ftp://hbd.org/pub/hbd/digests ftp://ftp.stanford.edu/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer AFS users can find it under... /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer COPYRIGHT for the Digest as a collection is currently held by hbd.org (Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen). Digests in their entirity CANNOT be reprinted/reproduced without this entire header section unless EXPRESS written permission has been obtained from hbd.org. Digests CANNOT be reprinted or reproduced in any format for redistribution unless said redistribution is at absolutely NO COST to the consumer. COPYRIGHT for individual posts within each Digest is held by the author. Articles cannot be extracted from the Digest and reprinted/reproduced without the EXPRESS written permission of the author. The author and HBD must be attributed as author and source in any such reprint/reproduction. (Note: QUOTING of items originally appearing in the Digest in a subsequent Digest is exempt from the above. Home brew clubs NOT associated with organizations having a commercial interest in beer or brewing may republish articles in their newsletters and/or websites provided that the author and HBD are attributed. ASKING first is still a great courtesy...) JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:11:40 +1000 From: "Phil and Jill Yates" <yates at infoflex.com.au> Subject: Cut Off In Mid Flight After my last post where I made mention of a hearty and jovial collection of home brewers who gathered for a weekly get together at Regan's "Black Hole", I was besieged by email of varied content, some of which was not encouraging. Though some folk asked for directions to the "Black Hole", others clearly took umbrage. I was not able to reply publicly to any of this as Pat called "time out" and the HBD vanished from my screen. For the first few days I assumed I was being vindictively punished for drinking too much Mudgee Mud and writing irrelevant posts. But when Steve Alexander contacted me to say the same had happened to him, I just knew it was more serious. Thanks Pat and Karl for all your efforts in getting the show back on the road. Now to finish business. Dave Lamotte was outraged that I should suggest anywhere other than Newcastle could be referred to as the "Black Hole". Dave, I was not referring to the "Black Hole" of Australia (to which I totally agree Newcastle holds the title unchallenged) but rather to the "Black Hole" of the Homebrew universe. This is not so much a place where the folks meet as it is a place where the spokes meet! The centre of it all! And as Dave admitted, no finer gathering of homebrewers is likely to be found. And Doc Pivo is still talking about Gil's Pils, though it was Bavarian, not Czech. Sorry for my failing memory. Cheers Phil Yates. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 08:53:41 -0500 From: Bill Steadman <Bsteadman at elicheesecake.com> Subject: Pap Zap Setup You wrote: Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 16:00:58 EDT From: JohnT6020 at aol.com Subject: Perforated sparge bucket Flossmoor IL 99-10-03 at 0742 CDT Fellow Brewers: I'm looking for one of those primitive sparge buckets that consisted of a five-gallon plastic pail with a zillion small holes in the bottom. They have a nickname but I cannot recall it. I need one for some experiments. If anyone has one they are willing to part with for a nominal amount of cash and the effort to ship it to me, please e-mail me. 73, JET Isn't drilling those zillion holes part of some all grain ritual? How could you insult all your fellow homebrewers by purchasing one of these devices? bwahahahah.. just kiddin' Bill Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 07:56:21 -0600 From: Greg Remake <gremake at gsbalum.uchicago.edu> Subject: Re: Where went the Brewery? Pat said: "The Brewery is part and parcel (though Karl maintains separate rights to it...) of the Digest server. When the Digest server went belly up, so did The Brewery. It's back on line now." I can access the The Brewery page, but none of the links work for me, like Recipator or HBD. What gives? Cheers, Greg Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 09:44:00 -0400 From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com> Subject: hop teas, FWH, and Windsor dry yeast questions Thanks to the Digest janitors for getting it back online. Great job guys. Afternoon folks. I am considering the use of hop teas and first wort hopping in some test batchs. Could you please explain the procedures and rough quantities for each of these hopping methods. Like do you leave FWH hops in the kettle during the boil or do you take out the hops that were in with the sparging wort and replace with new ones for the boil. Do these hops contribute to bitterness and any idea of how much. Also, how much water and hops is a good place to start for a hop tea? Should the water be boiling? And should it be left boiling once hops are added? How long? And is it best to use hop teas like dry hops only in the keg? How would you explain what these methods add to a brew. Do they add different atributes than normal dry hopping and bittering in the kettle? Yes, yes, lots of questions on hops. Now the dry yeast question. I used Lallemand dry yeast Windsor variety in an ESB style ale with OG at 1.055 or so. FG was 1.020. Anybody else experience similar performance? I used 3 packs of dry for a 4 gall. recipe. Also, the beer never dropped clear. Even in the keg. (Primary for a week, secondary for a week, and atleast 2 - 3 weeks in the keg now) .Fermentation temps was about 58 to 64F (I use a basement in an AC house) but don't normally have problems with liquid yeast atleast (this was my first batch with dry yeast in about 3 years - since i first started brewing). Any comments can be posted or send via private email. Thanks for all the help. The fall brewing season is soon to be strongly underway. Pete Czerpak Waterford, NY pete.czerpak at siigroup.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 10:15:10 -0400 From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Zapap, drilling enamel, Brewsters: JET asks for the name of those funny buckets with holes in them used for lautering and would like someone to send him one for an experiment. Rather than asking for someone to send you one why not just make it from local materials. It is a few minutes' work once you have the raw materials. C. Papazian modestly named them "Zapap" tuns in his first Joy of Homebrewing. I used something similar before I ever read JOHB, but with not so many holes or I used a plastic collander and some nylon screen wire at various times in my independent development work of all-grain mashing. His (?) idea to go to a deli ( no pickles please) and get two identical, handleless food grade buckets free of charge and poke holes in one of them and put a spigot on the other was a good one and one I used for many years. I think the original Zapap just had a hole in the side with a hose coming out. I put a spigot on mine. It is so simple it is classic. One modification I suggest is to lead the spigot out of the bottom rather than the side so you reduce the dead volume of the tun. I hang my spigot over the edge of the sink, you may wish to support it on a couple of two-by-fours or whatever. Remember you have to be able to shut this off occasionally, but that is not really a problem as the whole apparatus can be lifted to do it or raising the exit hose will stop this also. This will definitely lower dead volume to keep the sparge from "smearing" and give you a cleaner cutoff volume. If you wish, a screen wire over the spigot will prevent plugging of the spigot, if that is a problem. Sometimes this screen itself is a problem. In either event, lifting the bucket with the holes into another container allows you to clean it out. I think this has happened to me once or twice in many years, so don't worry, just get a third bucket with no holes and no spigot as a backup. This is a good idea anyway to have a sparge bucket of the correct size handy. as eventually the inner bucket will croak. I know. I have even gone so far as to fix the tears in the bottom with a hot-melt glue gun and polyethylene/polypropylene sticks when I discovered the problem as I was getting ready to lauter. As far as the hole poking goes, don't bother with a drill. Go outside ( to avoid the smoke and smell) use a hot pencil soldering iron ( being a Ham this should be no problem for you) and just poke away. This is MUCH faster than a drill and the sides are smooth ( read easily kept clean). Couter-intuitively, Large holes are OK as the filtering gets done by the bed. Smaller holes can be made with a large piece of copper wire wound around the tip.The only time I ever had a serious stuck sparge was when I tried putting a nylon screen mesh in the bottom of this tun. Don't bother, just plan on recycling a couple of quarts. Another modification is to add a hose from the spigot to the collecting vessel to prevent mixing air into the hot wort. Therefore, choose the spigot with a large internal opening so it will pass bits of grain at first , but a small enough spout that it will accept a small hose. These are available from most home brew shops 73 and 88 to the XYL, - ----------------------------------------- Sebastian asks how to drill enamel without chipping it. I can suggest putting tape over it and do a series of ever enlarging holes with sharp drills as the best possibility. Frankly, I think you will sacrifice a nice large kettle for nothing. Why not go out and buy a couple of those cheap Korean-made thin SS 4 gallon pots and drill those if you must? These 4 gallon pots boil much faster and fit on stove tops, don't chip and don't get iron in your beer and don't have connections which can harbor bad guys, depending on how you use this. Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Anderson, SC my new QTH KC2LZ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 08:01:33 -0700 From: "Pat Galvin" <Pat_Galvin at ermwest.com> Subject: RE: help with Full Sail Amber ale recipe In Digest No. 3135, Patrick Finerty asks about bitterness levels in his planned Full Sail Amber Ale Clone. Refer to Full Sail's web page at http://www.fullsailbrewing.com/fsbcbrews2.htm. Full Sail AmberAle is described as having 42 IBUs. The O.G. is 1.058 and the beer is 6% alcohol by volume. I made a Full Sail VSP clone a few months ago and emailed the BrewMaster with questions. He responded promptly and was very helpful. Good Luck. Pat Galvin Folsom, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 10:20:37 -0500 From: David A Bradley <BRADLEY_DAVID_A at Lilly.com> Subject: Hurrah! Welcome back HBD (thanks Pat, Karl, contributors!). Have you brewed any style of _beer_ with elderberries? I found nothing in the archives on this (except wines). I have an elderberry/ginger brown ale in mind and recipe. Speaking of archives, those new to HBD should check the archive search engines (see server info in header) to find answers to many things. Its invaluable and offers a wealth of good information. Use it in good health! Dave in Indy Home of the moved/renamed Naptown Brewing Company, Ltd. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 10:09:18 -0600 From: Ian Smith <isrs at cmed.com> Subject: FW: beer song Glad the HBD is back!!! > -(-(--_ > / ( ( \ DO-RE-MI BEER, by Homer J. Simpson. > | __ __) DOUGH... the stuff...that buys me beer... > | / \/ \ RAY..... the guy that > /\/\ (o )o ) sells me beer... > /c \__/ --. ME...... the guy... > ( ) who drinks the beer, > \_ _-------' FAR..... the distance to my beer. > | / \ SO...... I think I'll have a beer. > | | '\_______) LA...... La, la la la la beer > | \_____) TEA..... no thanks, > |_____ | I'm drinking beer... > |______/\/\ That will bring us back to... > / \ (Looks into an empty glass) > D'OH! Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 12:18:42 -0400 (EWT) From: pbabcock <pbabcock at mail.oeonline.com> Subject: Brewery Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... On Mon, 4 Oct 1999 Greg wrote: > I can access the The Brewery page, but none of the links work for me, like > Recipator or HBD. What gives? Well, as with anything the magnitude of which the Digest server just went through, there's bound to be things that get "broken". Unfortunately, the Brewery appears to have been one of the casualties. The HBD *M*A*S*H* has the site in triage at the moment, and expects a successful surgical operation and quick recovery.... (And we're working on the counters, too...) - See ya! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at oeonline.com Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/brew.html "Just a cyber-shadow of his former brewing self..." Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 12:46:25 -0500 From: MVachow at newman.k12.la.us Subject: mini-kegs vs. soda kegs > -----Original Message----- > From: Vachom > Sent: Thursday, September 30, 1999 8:40 AM > To: 'post@hbd.org' > Subject: mini-kegs vs. soda kegs > > Keith inquires about the relative costs of min-kegs and soda kegs. > Although getting set up with mini-kegs may be cheaper, the long run costs > quickly make soda kegs cheaper. My understanding is that it takes one CO2 > cartridge to carbonate and dispense a 5L mini-keg. St. Pat's sells a box > of 10 cartridges for $13.50. That's about two bucks more than what I pay > to have my 40 lb. CO2 canister filled at the local industrial gas supply > place. I carbonate and dispense about 80-100 gallons of beer before I > have to go down to the gas supply place again. The equivalent CO2 cost in > cartridges to carbonate and dispense 100 gallons of beer would be $102.60 > if you bought them from St. Pat's. Likewise, it's my understanding that a > mini-keg has a finite lifetime, usually about 10 fillings. If you had 5 > mini-kegs, you would have had to replace them at least once during our > comparative period. Mini-kegs go for $6.50 at St. Pat's; that's another > $32.50 for one replacement. Soda kegs, if they're looked after properly, > have indefinite lifetimes. Thus, after the start-up costs, a soda keg > brewer can carbonate and dispense his 100 gallons of beer for a ten spot, > a mini-kegger will be $130 bucks in the hole. After the comparative > period, the two brewers are even on cost, and the mini-kegger will slip > behind $120 on each subsequent 100 gallons of beer. > > Mike > New Orleans, LA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:39:34 +1000 From: "Rick Wood" <thewoods at netpci.com> Subject: Welcome Back, Thanks and AHA Hello All, I just had to comment regarding the latest difficulties: 1. It was a very difficult 3 weeks without the HBD. Welcome back and thanks to the Janitors for all the hard work required to get the HBD back. Thanks to all. 2. Thanks to Ken Schramm for his reasoned approach to the AHA. He is the type of person that has the answer to fix the AHA if it is fixable. Frankly, I think it is fixable, and without too much work. 3. Also, thanks to Jim Liddil for reiterating his approach. His approach, especially when seen next to Ken's, makes the differences seem so stark. I personally have no doubt which approach is most likely to succeed. An example of the Jim Liddil approach can be found in his statement: >Previously Jim Parker was working on getting student rates for the ASBC >for AHA members. >The yeast culturing workshops are also a big hit and go along way towards >putting Wyeast out of business. In his crusade against AHA he just couldn't miss an "opportunity" to comment on his crusade against Wyeast. Certainly a difficult one for me to understand as I think the loss of Wyeast would be worse than the loss of Brewing Techniques. Perhaps if I were as great as Jim Liddil I would also crusade against something I no longer need. However, I like to think I would be a little more reasoned than that. In any case to everyone out there: We almost all agreed that Brewing Techniques was the best magazine for our purposes. I, for one, received my Zymurgy, my New Brewer and (off subject) my Brew Your Own at their appointed times. I also got to read my AHA forum and my IBS forum during the absence of HBD. I did not receive my BT. So I thank the AHA and AOB for the work they have done and continue to do. I hope that they improve, and with people like Ken Schramm and others, I have no doubt that they will. Perhaps when I personally attain perfection I will start expecting it of others? Regards Rick Wood "Brewing on Guam and saying YES to AHA, AOB, Wyeast and now Ken Schramm!" Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 21:52:39 -0400 From: amgrady at together.net Subject: bucket with bazillion holes in it JET (JohnT6020 at aol.com) wrote in looking for someone to part with one of those "primitive sparge buckets with a zillion holes in the bottom". He couldn't recall the nickname. "Primitive?!?" Please.* John, this essential piece of apparatus is called a "zapap" lauter tun, and it is all I have ever used (for lautering) to make dozens of 5 gal all-grain batches of homebrew. My cost was <$5 at CT Farm and Country, plus a half hour of my time drilling those bazillion holes you mention. I doubt anyone could ship one to you cheaper - I would just make one! This allows me the opportunity to mention how inexpensively one can go all-grain; make yourself one of these lauter tuns (you just use your bottling bucket for the 'outer hull'), get a 2nd 4 gallon pot ($20) for doing a full boil (you already have <one>, right?), and save a few 2 litre pop bottles for aid in chilling in your bathtub (sanitize and fill pop bottles with water, freeze, rotate into boiling pots while chilling, I use 4 total, 20 min to chill to 70F). Mash in one of your 4 gal. pots (keep warm in a low oven, or do step mashing, whatever), lauter in your zapap, boil in your two pots, chill in your tub with pop bottles, and you are an all-grain expert! Incremental cost addition to your current equipment: ~$25. Additional time per batch: about 2-2.5 hrs. Improvement to your beer: immeasurable! (Well, OK, maybe measureable...but definitely an improvement!) (*John, I am just messing with you here...nothing wrong with your question! BTW, there was a good Zymurgy article 'road testing' several lautering setups in the 1995 special issue (Great Grains, vol 18 #4)...written by hbd's Al Korzonas...if that is what your experiment involves.) Matt Grady Burlington, Vermont Return to table of contents
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