HOMEBREW Digest #3157 Sat 30 October 1999

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
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  Subject: Book..... ("Jack Schmidling")
  Yeast Generations ??? (Biergiek)
  The Jethro Gump Report ("Rob Moline")
  Lambic Yeast and Sanitation (Mike Harkness)
  Never the same yeast twice... (MICHAEL WILLIAM MACEYKA)
  "Lambic Lovers' Digest" (pbabcock)
  Want more Hop Flavor (woodsj)
  Anyone going to SANS in SF in December? (Alan McKay)
  Re: Boiling in Erlenmeyers ("Sieja, Edward M")
  Oxygen woes (Wade Hutchison)
  Zymurgy woes ("Donald D. Lake")
  I though yeast just went dormant.... ("Kelly")
  Re: RIMS question (Rob Dewhirst)
  O2 can spontaneously combust ? ("Michael Maag")
  Fullers ESB and other Fullers Ramblings ("Arnish, John J.")
  Munton's Wheat LME (Paul Haaf)
  Re: Oxygen spontaneous combustion (Alex Hazlett)
  boiling in a flask (jliddil)
  O2 and spontaneous combustion. ("Peter J. Calinski")
  bubbles, tiny and otherwise (jim english)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:04:19 -0500 From: "Jack Schmidling" <arf at mc.net> Subject: Subject: Book..... > hal <hwarrick at springnet1.com> >Subject: Book: Principles of Brewing Science 2 >Come to think of it, this is about the time George Fix should pop into the HBD with a post... his posts seem to be favorably timed with the release dates of his new publications. I wonder if he learned these marketing strategies from Schmidling? Actually, he failed the course. He is still working and I retired at age 40. js PHOTO OF THE WEEK http://user.mc.net/arf/weekly.htm HOME http://user.mc.net/arf Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 00:43:42 EDT From: Biergiek at aol.com Subject: Yeast Generations ??? Could someone other than Fred Garvin please elaborate on how yeast multiply during the growth stage of fermentation? (no diagrams please, and use words less than 3 syllables if possible) I am interested in understanding how one can limit yeast growth to 3X-5X for lagers and double that for ales, and why this is important. Thanks. Kyle Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 00:29:17 -0500 From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at isunet.net> Subject: The Jethro Gump Report The Jethro Gump Report AHA..By the Book Jim Liddil points out what he feels are shortcomings of the AHA.....as he has done for years....by now, I can tell you that as a member of the AHA BoA, I would like to hire Jim ....every organization needs to have someone to tell them when they are causing problems, and in Jim, I know the AHA would have someone to keep us away from the reefs, as it were. In any other circumstance than the one which is problematic at the moment, I would say that Jim and others would have a legitimate beef...... But, in this instance, I believe that that certain parties have paid a "Pre-Publication" price for a book....this implies that the book is not yet published... by the AOB or any other party....And as a result of accepting this Pre-Pub deal, there is a price saving, on both cost and shipping. But, in this instance, the book isn't published yet. More time is required......Does this negate the fact of cost savings in the deal? No..the buyer still will get the deal they sought. A book, available at a savings over the standard price, will arrive.....albeit at a later date. And what has this to do with AHA? Brewers Publications prints the books. My advice is, if anyone is so ticked off that they won't enjoy a discount on a book, with no shipping charges...before anyone else gets the book at full price with all charges....please, lets refund their money. GABF Jim also complains that the GABF may not happen next year, as Currigan Hall may not be available. The way I understand it, the City Of Denver has planned to bulldoze Currigan to make way for other projects. Apparently, it is up to a vote of the City Council to decide the fate of the hall. It seems certain that this venue will not last long, however, the actual date remains up in the air. Some seem to think it will occur in June/July 2000, and others seem to think it will be in November 2000. If it is in J/J, then Jim, you have seen your last GABF in Currigan. If it is in November...then you have one to go. But, does that mean that GABF is dead? No wuckers, mate! I can assure you that GABF will live on, long after Currigan is dead. Dry Hopping with Pellets It always worked for me, with brilliant clarity, even with as much as 15 pounds of pellets in a 7 bbl batch. New Members at GABF Congrats to Paul and the rest of the AOB staff for signing up over a hundred new members to the AHA at GABF! And welcome to the new members! Cheers! Jethro Gump Rob Moline brewer at isunet.net jethro at isunet.net AHA BoA/AHA IBS MBAA Siebel Alumni Association Lallemand BrewRat "The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About Beer!" Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 06:33:55 -0400 From: Mike Harkness <mharknes at umd.umich.edu> Subject: Lambic Yeast and Sanitation Hello in HBD Land, I'm considering making a Lambic in the next month or so (my first attempt) and in researching the process, etc. I found a comment (I don't remember where) that suggested Lambic yeast and bacteria are so strong that sanitizing equipment after their use is nearly impossible. The author suggested that any equipment used should forever be dedicated to Lambic production as the risk of infecting other beers using the equipment would be very high. Any suggestions or experiences with this issue would be helpful. I don't have a problem dedicating a minimal amount of equipment but would prefer not to if I don't need to. Thanks, Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 07:14:10 -0400 (EDT) From: MICHAEL WILLIAM MACEYKA <mmaceyka at welch.jhu.edu> Subject: Never the same yeast twice... Howdy, Patrick in Arizona asks about my endorsement of streaking yeast cultures to single colonies as a method of ensuring or making a pure culture. I would even suggest doing this with a culture you already believe is "pure." Mutations happen, and with yeast, one of the most common is the loss of the mitochondrial genome. When this happens, the yeast are called "petite" because the colonies are smaller on agar plates than non-mutants. Cells from petite colonies examined under the microscope are also smaller than wild type. Petites are reputed to make crappy beer high in diacetyl (perhaps good for Fuller's?), but I haven't done the experiment. Mike Maceyka Baltimore, MD Four Square Brewing, coffee brewing, that is... Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:01:35 -0400 (EWT) From: pbabcock <pbabcock at mail.oeonline.com> Subject: "Lambic Lovers' Digest" Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... I recall a few years back when the "Lambic Lovers' Digest" was looking for a new home. anyone know where it got off to? Does it still exist? All the recent posting on Lambic just brought it back to mind. I personally haven't seen an issue for at least two years. - See ya! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at oeonline.com Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/brew.html "Just a cyber-shadow of his former brewing self..." Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:36:56 -0400 From: woodsj at us.ibm.com Subject: Want more Hop Flavor As a confirmed hophead I'm always looking for recipes and ways to add more hop flavor to my brews. Been reading a lot recently about hop teas and how they are made. Dry hopping doesn't do it for me. Even this issue of Zymurgy (yes I'm an AHA member, no affiliation blah blah blah) has a piece on a hop tea as part of the Fuller's ESB article and clone recipe. It seems from my experience that many recipes with heavy hop schedules add more bitterness and not flavor. I did a brief search of HBD archives and found many posts on hop teas but not how to make and add. How are hop teas made ? I've read about steeping hops at certain temperatures for 2-4 hours and short boil methods. Do you add the tea at end of boil or after primary while racking into secondary ferment ? It seems there would be sanitation precautions with adding after primary. What are the most effective methods ? Any advice from the collective would be greatly appreciated. Jeff Woods Camp Hill, PA Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:47:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Alan McKay <amckay at magma.ca> Subject: Anyone going to SANS in SF in December? Howdy Brewers, Anyone going to the SANS security conference in SF Dec 11-16? I just made my travel arrangements today and wouldn't mind getting together with some other brewers out there. http://www.sans.org/sf99/sf99.htm cheers, -Alan - -- "Brewers make wort. Yeast Makes Beer." - Dave Miller's Homebrewing Guide http://www.bodensatz.com/ What's a Bodensatz? http://www.bodensatz.com/bodensatz.html Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 07:50:00 -0500 From: "Sieja, Edward M" <EMSieja at ingr.com> Subject: Re: Boiling in Erlenmeyers I have been boiling starters in a 2L erlenmeyer for some time. At first I tried to monitor it closely as the boil was starting and still had a few volcanos. I have found that swirling (essentially a vigorous stirring) the wort prior to putting it on the burner will aerate it and prevent any boil-overs. I still monitor the process and simply turn the heat to med-low once the boil has started. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:51:18 -0400 From: Wade Hutchison <whutchis at bucknell.edu> Subject: Oxygen woes Looking over an Oxygen safety Tech Bulletin I got from the Swagelok Valve company, it appears that spontaneous combustion is not really the problem. Materials in a pure O2 environment have a greatly decreased ignition energy i.e. the amount of energy needed to start them burning - but not zero, which would be the case with spontaneous combustion. The problem is the gas dynamics of O2 flowing from a high pressure source. Gas travelling through a pipe at high velocities (approaching the speed of sound, if the supply pressure is high enough) will undergo adiabatic (insulated) compression if it strikes an obstruction or constriction in the line. During this compression, the temperature of the gas will rise dramatically. In the case of O2, this temperature rise may be sufficient to initiate combustion of the surrounding materials (including the materials the piping is made of!). The biggest hazard appears to be valves downstream of the regulator, where packing materials and lubricants can ignite with very little temperature rise. This nearly spontaneous combustion appears to be associated with flow of _high pressure_ O2. If you have an oxygen rated regulator, and keep the pressures low, you would minimize your risk for this particular hazard of O2. Hope this helps, -----wade hutchison At 12:10 AM 10/29/1999 , you wrote: >Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 09:13:47 -0400 >From: "Dan Kiplinger" <knurdami at iname.com> >Subject: how O2 can spontaniously combust oil or grease >Nigel, can you elaborate on how O2 can spontaneously combust oil or grease? >I have never heard of this phenomenon. > >Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:07:14 +0100 >From: "Nigel Porter" <nigel at sparger.freeserve.co.uk> >Subject: Explosive O2 > ><snip> >The main thing to remember is not to use grease or oil on any of the >regulators or pipework you use with O2. O2 can cause sponstanious >combustion in contact with these. Apart from usual safety measures >to be considered when using presure vessels, O2 is pretty much >harmless. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:45:57 -0400 From: "Donald D. Lake" <dake at gdi.net> Subject: Zymurgy woes I received my Nov/Dec 99 Zymurgy the other day ----- and it was simply underwelming. It's now down to 64 pages which is half the size of issues of years past. While this mag has always had a tilt to the fluff side (which at my level in the hobby was never a problem to me), there were absolutely no articles that anyone would classify as even slightly advanced or technical in regard to homebrewing. If you are behind in your reading of travelogues and history, you might find it of interest. There were nice stories on visiting Moravia & Germany, along with the history of Fuller's ESB, Belgians and Imperial Stouts. The one strong area was the recipes and coverage of the AHA Nationals. I, for one, have never been caught up in the ongoing criticism of Charlie Papazian, the AHA and Zymurgy. But Charlie's stuff is beginning to wear on me. His writing style is as fresh as a two-year-old bottle of my hefeweizen. Looking back, that infamous "Bottle opener" issue is looking better and better. Don Lake dlake at amuni.com Lake Water Brewery (wholly-owned subsidiary of Canal Water Beverages, Inc.) - ----"It takes a big man to cry.........but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man." - Jack Handy Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:34:00 -0500 From: "Kelly" <kgrigg at diamonddata.com> Subject: I though yeast just went dormant.... Hi All! I just tried to brew my first batch of mead using a champagne yeast. I have had it in the fermenter for about 5 months....just racked it off...primed it with some corn sugar...and bottled it. I was careful to keep the residual yeast in the fermenter from getting contaminated after racking off the mead.....I had another batch of mead ready and cooled to put back into the fermenter to reused the yeast. It has been 3 days...and I see no indication of carbon dioxide production from fermentation... I'm wondering if all the yeast is dead? I'm concerned that my bottled mead won't ferment....I thought yeast pretty much just went dormant and there should be a good deal of viable cells left after this period of time. Any ideas out there? If I re-bottle....can I add some new yeast to it...and if so, how much yeast? This was a 5 gallon batch. I've had pretty good luck with my beers so far....and this is my 1st foray into mead (which tasted quite good....I added 4 cans white grape juice concentrate and 1 can lemonade concentrate)....and could use some advice... TIA!! Kelly New Orleans A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any other invention, With the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:28:09 -0500 From: Rob Dewhirst <robd at biocomplexity.nhm.ukans.edu> Subject: Re: RIMS question At 12:17 AM 10/29/99 -0400, HBD wrote: >Subject: RIMS question > >I have a question that I hope the RIMSer's out there can answer. If I add >cold water to the grain in the mash tun and then heat it to mash temperature >in (say) 20 minutes will this cause and problems? At present I manually add >the strike water to the grain and it very rapidly stabilizes at the required >150-158 F mash temperature. It would help to know what your source of heat is for your RIMS. An electric element on for a full 20 mins might scorch. Though I've never seen this myself. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:11:43 -0400 From: "Michael Maag" <maagm at rica.net> Subject: O2 can spontaneously combust ? Dan asks: >Nigel, can you elaborate on how O2 can spontaneously combust oil or grease? >I have never heard of this phenomenon. Because Nigel wrote: >The main thing to remember is not to use grease or oil on any of the >regulators or pipework you use with O2. O2 can cause sponstanious >combustion in contact with these. Apart from usual safety measures >to be considered when using presure vessels, O2 is pretty much >harmless. Oxygen,combined with grease or oil will combust, but not spontaneously. As I posted earlier, oxygen lowers the ignition temperature of substances which will burn, so they will catch fire more easily. Once ignited, things burn more quickly, the higher the oxygen concentration. If you use grease or oil on the connection between the oxygen tank and the regulator, you can get oil in the regulator. Also, if you frequently attach the regulator to the oxygen tank without "cracking the valve" (opening the valve slightly to blow out dust), you will get dust in the regulator. If there is dust, oil, or grease in the oxygen regulator and if you turn on the oxygen regulator very quickly, it is possible to generate enough heat in the regulator to ignite the grease/dust. This is due to the "adiabatic heat of compression". The oxygen is at 2000 lbs pressure or more in a full cylinder. Quickly turning the valve on causes the oxygen to flow into the regulator and almost instantly re-pressurize as the oxygen fills the regulator. This recompression produces heat. Since the ignition temperature is lowered by the oxygen, it does not take much heat to ignite the dust, oil, whatever in the regulator. The ignition of the oil or dust will blow the gauges off the regulator, at least. The recommended proceedure for connecting an O2 tank to a regulator is: Make sure the regulator and tank valve connections are free of foreign materials, especially oily or greasy substances. Turn the tank outlet away from personnel. Stand to the side, not in front, not in back. Before connecting the regulator to the tank valve, momentarily open and close the tank valve to blow out any dust. Connect the regulator to the tank valve. Tighten connection nut securely with an appropriate wrench. Open the low pressure valve on the regulator. SLOWLY open the tank valve. Brew Safely, Mike Maag, Occupational Safety Inspector. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:48:21 -0500 From: "Arnish, John J." <jarnish at anl.gov> Subject: Fullers ESB and other Fullers Ramblings Alan Meeker writes: "How about just throwing in a bag of Kraft caramels into the boil?? ;)" That is essentially what is done with Fullers ESB. Sort of. I recently toured Fullers while on a trip to England. The tour guide, although not a brewer, has worked for the company for quite some time and has been given tours for years. On our tour the guide mentioned how Fullers adds carmelized sugar, forgot what kind, with the consistancy of mollases into the boil. They throw about a bucket (~5 gal) into the boil (forgot what size of boil). Infact the bucket was just sitting there off to the side after being emptied for us to "taste".The guide said Fullers did this because the caramel adds a nice red color to the beer giving the customers "warming welcome" when they sit down and drink their pint. Something he said could not be readily achieved using just malt. A few other tidbits, Fullers does not dry hop London Pride, and uses only 1 oz (2 plugs) of hops per firkin for their ESB. The guide also said that Fullers adds ISINGLASS to the boil, not old yeast. The isinglass was sitting next to the bucket of caramel. The old yeast is sold to make maramite and goes bad in a hurry. They have huge amounts of yeast to get rid of. Dumpter loads, why? Because they filter ALL of their beer. Including the cask conditioned ales. After filtering out the old yeast, they add fresh yeast for conditioning After the tour we were given samples of the product line, London Pride, Chiswick Bitter, Summer Ale, ESB. On a side note, the guide said the ladies would like the ESB because it was a little sweeter than their other beers My only regret on the tour was not taking better notes, I was so in awe that I didn't think about it. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:19:46 -0400 From: Paul Haaf <haafbrau1 at juno.com> Subject: Munton's Wheat LME Lately I've been purchasing Munton's Wheat LME in the 3 gal (33 lb) 'buckets'. The last batch that I bought was NOT wheat malt. I made two batches from it, both using 1/2 gal (5 1/2 lbs). It was either light or amber LME. When I complained about this to the homebrew store, they said that they are aware of the problem, but Munton's refuses to acknowledge the error. They (the HB shop) had bought six of these buckets, and Munton's won't take them back. So now I have a rather large amount of LME that is not what I paid for, and doesn't go with my intended recipes. Any suggestions on how to solve this problem? Anybody know how to contact Munton's? I like their product, when I get what I pay for, but that is not the case right now. As you can imagine, this is holding up my future brewing. TIA for any helpful suggestions. Private e-mail OK. Paul "Too many freaks, not enough circuses" ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 07:51:49 -1000 From: Alex Hazlett <arexu at aloha.net> Subject: Re: Oxygen spontaneous combustion Having just discussed this in a scuba course, I'm happy to have something I can address to this august body. Oxygen (and common everyday air) in contact with petroleum products and some other greases WILL ignite spontaneously at high pressures. Think diesel engines--no spark plugs, just compression. In scuba it's important because the already compressed air is constricted in passing through your regulator, at the point it might encounter lubricated washers (for that matter, the washers themselves can burn in oxygen). For this reason, if scuba gear is used with air mixes greater than 40% oxygen, you have to have your gear "oxygen clean" anywhere it comes in contact with the gas at high pressure. If you are using pure oxygen at pressure to oxygenate your beer, you may have the same problem. So be careful with lubrication around your oxygen setup. Most likely, if you have a commercial setup, like the oxygenator system I saw in my local brewshop, it's been considered by the manufacturer (as a liability issue), but an oxygen fire is nothing you want to see. Alex Hazlett Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:45:05 -0700 (MST) From: jliddil at VMS.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: boiling in a flask I use an anitfoam agent. I believe Hoptech sells the stuff. And I know Rob Moline mentioned it for use in Barley wines. But it works great for boiling also. I can boil my 3.5 liters in a 4 liter acid bottle with no worry of boil over. Vegetable oil might work also. Jim Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 22:25:22 -0400 From: "Peter J. Calinski" <PCalinski at iname.com> Subject: O2 and spontaneous combustion. In HBD #3156, "Dan Kiplinger" <knurdami at iname.com> wrote: __________________________________________________________________________ "Subject: how O2 can spontaniously combust oil or grease Nigel, can you elaborate on how O2 can spontaneously combust oil or grease? I have never heard of this phenomenon." ____________________________________________________________________________ I just have to but in here. A while back I watched the discussion of oil in welding O2 in silence. There can't be any oil in compressed O2. Just think of a diesel engine. Oil (diesel fuel) + O2 (air) + pressure = Bang Pete Calinski East Amherst NY Near Buffalo NY Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 23:30:27 -0400 From: jim english <jimebob at mindspring.com> Subject: bubbles, tiny and otherwise Allright all you science guys out there: Why do some bubbles in a glass of Heineken (forgive me, a weak moment) stream upward, from what I assume to be a nucleation site, on the side of the glass, in a steady, rapid sequence of small, very evenly spaced bubbles, while other sites seem to produce fewer, larger, much quicker rising bubbles? No Science In School To Speak Of, But A Six-Year Subscrition To Discover Magazine Jim. JRE 'hotlanta ga p.s. Do big bubbles rise faster, period? Return to table of contents
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