---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Clogged brewpot drain (Kurt Kiewel)
  Dry hopping,  Sanitizing (Kurt Kiewel)
  Corney Kegs and gas ("Darren Robey")
  carboy cleaning ("James R M  Gilson")
  answer to my deleading question ("Ratkiewich, Peter")
  Winemaking ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  RE:Aquarium Heaters (Bob Hall)
  Re: Aquarium heaters for lagering (Israel Christie)
  malta starters? His/Her Pale Ale ("Penn, John")
  RE: Carboy blow-off!! ("Scott Moore")
  iodophor / losing beer in the blow-off / yeast growth... ("Alan Meeker")
  Hey! (Eric.Fouch)
  shoes ships, sealing wax ("Stephen Alexander")
  re-pitching, blow off, wheat stuff (RCAYOT)
  Prickly Pears/Honeys ("St. Patrick's")
  Malt Modification ("St. Patrick's")
  Re: Aquarium heaters for lagering (BOB STARK)
  Re: aquarium heater (Jeff Hall)
  RE: Aquarium heaters for lagering ("Nigel Porter")
  Aquarium heater ("Dan Kiplinger")
  How to De-lead Brass ("John Palmer")


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Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 15:41:36 -0600
From: Kurt Kiewel <kiewel at mail.chem.tamu.edu>
Subject: Clogged brewpot drain

Brewers,  I can't solve the mystery of clogged brewpot.  I brew in a
converted sankey with a valve installed near the bottom to which a
stainless scrubber is fitted.   After cooling with an immersion chiller,
whirlpooling and waiting for 20min for everything to settle I get about 1/3
cup of wort out of the spout before it clogs.

I have been using pelletized hops.  Is this a mistake?  I don't want to
resort to racking the wort out because I spent all that time installing the
valve.  What to do?

Thanks Kurt



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 15:41:48 -0600
From: Kurt Kiewel <kiewel at mail.chem.tamu.edu>
Subject: Dry hopping,  Sanitizing

Brewers,  recently there have been a lot of suggestions and concerns about
dry hopping.  I dry hop in the secondary using pellets with no problems so
far.  I find that adding the hops at the last week or so gives them enough
time to settle to the bottom.  To catch any runaway hops at bottleing/
kegging time I fix a small muslin bag to the end of the racking tubing with
copper wire.  The muslin bag hangs loose off the end of the tube.  To
sterilize the tube and bag I autoclave them.  I have found that all of the
tubing sold in your average brew store is autoclavable.  I haven't done the
experiment but I assume that you could pressure cook the tubing because
pressure cooking is really the same thing as autoclaving.  One could
pressure cook tubing well in advance if you first put it into one of those
high temperature oven cooking bags sold at most grocery stores.  Or you
could just boil them.  I wouldn't want to soak the bag in sanitizing
solution because it probably wouldn't be very effective.

Enjoy, Kurt



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 16:40:49 +1000
From: "Darren Robey" <drobey at awb.com.au>
Subject: Corney Kegs and gas



Conan Barnes Wrote:

on an unrelated note...  for our first anniversary my wife went all out and
bought me a corny draft system(i'm still in shock about this one).  what's
the general concensus on keeping the co2 cylinder in the fridge vs. running
a gas line from the tank outside to the keg inside?

Thanks!

OK Conan you can stop the boasting now!!!

Anyhow, I have done both, I havent plumbed in a ling through the edge, but
just ran it through the seal when needed.

I personally leave mine outside because I can fit another keg in. As far as
serving goes its fine. I just put my pressure up and when the beer comes
out slowly I put the quick fit back on and biuld the pressure up a bit.
When the keg is full and there is little head space the pressure drops
quickly so for the first few glasses it needs a lot of re gassing, but
after that the head space is big and the pressure drop takes quite a few
pours. As far as a drop in carbonation from having the pressure change,
never noticed it. A few people seem to be very anal about serving pressure
but I've never worried to much. As long as its not to fast that you get a
beer milkshake and not to slow that you die of thrist waiting for your beer
then your right.

So for me I leave it outside then I can have 3 kegs and hence 3 varieties
of beer on at once!

For the guys who have taps on the fridge door they may prefer to plumb a
line in to save opeing the door to regass the kegs.

Just my 2 cents worth and I hope I don't get to much flamming for being to
slack with my serving pressure.

Darren

PS the headspace thing works when going out as well. I never take a gas
cylinder to a club meeting unles the keg is near full.






Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 06:27:57 -0500
From: "James R M Gilson" <JIMKATZOO at email.msn.com>
Subject: carboy cleaning

I was having trouble cleaning the trub out of my carboys, even when I would
start rinsing immediately after transfer into the bottling bucket. Some of
the crud would always remain and I would put a small scrubby pad in with
some water and have to hoist and gyrate to swirl the water in the neck to
get the crud out. At the homebrew shop they suggested using ammonia. It
worked great. Until one sunny afternoon with a fairly  strong solution of
ammonia and water in a full carboy decided to grow a fine growth of green
guk. How nice, I made a science experiment. Now I can not get the green yuck
out of the carboy even after using full strength ammonia and C brite. Any
idea's and solutions? (snicker) get it? solutions? Thanks, Jim




Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 07:27:30 -0500 
From: "Ratkiewich, Peter" <PRATKIEWICH at ci.westport.ct.us>
Subject: answer to my deleading question

Thanks to the respondents to my de-leading question.  Dan Jeska was kind
enough to do some research for me and came up with a very informative
article that explains the proper procedure for deleading brass amongst other
things. For any one who's interested the text was clipped from the article
at http://realbeer.com/jjpalmer/Welding.txt
<http://realbeer.com/jjpalmer/Welding.txt> .   The part that answers my
question is posted below.  The bottom line is I soaked the parts for way too
long.  Instead of 24 hours they only need a 15 minute dunk.

 ............................................................................
 .................................
Well, never let it be said that the Space Program never yields technology
applicable to the home. Some chemists working on the International Space
Station Alpha program were consulted for an etchant that could safely remove
the lead from the surface of brass parts. The chemists determined that a
1-to-1 volume ratio of Glacial Acetic Acid (98% by vol.) to Hydrogen
Peroxide (30% by vol.) would accomplish this without pitting the brass. This
procedure was performed in the lab using the standard laboratory
concentrations of these chemicals. The process consisted of a 30 second
dunk, swirl and rinse at room temperature, and was successful in removing
the lead, as determined by a Lead Home Test Kit (swabs). In addition, the
procedure had the added benefit of turning the brass into Pure Gold. (Okay,
the color of, anyway.) Because 98% Acetic Acid and 30% Hydrogen Peroxide are
not available to the average brewer, the experiment was repeated using the
concentrations available in the supermarket. These are 5% Acetic Acid (White
Distilled Vinegar) and 3% Hydrogen Peroxide. Due to the difference in
concentration, the relative concentration ratio is changed. For the
household variety concentrations, a 2-to-1 volume ratio of Acetic Acid to
H2O2 is needed.  The process was expected to take longer with the more
dilute solution, so the brass part was immersed for 10 minutes. The results
showed the same gold color and the Lead Test swab indicated the lead had
been removed. The buttery yellow gold color can be used as an indicator that
the process has completed.  Home Lead Test kits should be available at most
hardware stores.

This procedure for removing surface lead from brass can easily be conducted
at home. A 10-15 minute dunk, swirl, and rinse in a 2/1 volume ratio of 5%
Acetic Acid and 3% Hydrogen Peroxide has been shown to be effective. By the
way, the solution can be irritating to the skin so either wear gloves or use
tongs.


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 08:28:09 -0500
From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com>
Subject: Winemaking

In #3162 Jack Schmidling states,"It is unlikely that this sort of wine 
can
ever be much better than jug wine and
will always be more expensive to make. "  You ought to try the current
selection of concentrates. The results far surpass "jug wines" and 
numerous
customers of mine have quit going to the liquor stores for $18 and $20
bottles of wine. If you were purchase a _complete_starter wine kit from 
me
you would be getting 25 bottles of wine for slightly over $3 /bottle; MD
20/20 is $6/bottle these days. It must have been years since Jack has 
tried
making wine so his results arre fairly dated; what he is stating is no 
more
correct than saying, "All dried beer yeasts are bread yeasts." decades 
ago

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 09:29:31 +0000
From: Bob Hall <nap_aca_bh at nwoca.org>
Subject: RE:Aquarium Heaters

Pertaining to Dan Kiplinger's question about aquarium heaters, I have
used an aquarium heater to raise the temperature for ale fermentation in

a cold basement. My carboy, however, was placed in a larger tub and the
heater was used to warm the water jacket around the carboy. I'd be a
little leery of placing the heater directly in the wort.

Bob
- --
Bob Hall, Technology Director
Napoleon Area Schools
Napoleon, OH 43545



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 09:13:07 -0500
From: Israel Christie <ichristie at vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Aquarium heaters for lagering

Dan,
I also worked in a pet store while I was in High School, and then moved
to working in a Brew Pub to pay for college.  The Brewmaster there is
the guy who got me into homebrewing.  We had the best conversations over
his latest helles, stout, brown, etc... He had an engineering background
and studied brewing in Germany; this guy was a well of information.  I
once asked what he thought about using tank heaters to produce a nice
constant fermentation temp.  He actually suggested putting the carboy
(I'm a 5 gallon guy) in a tub of water covering only a third or a
quarter of the vessel, and then putting your heater in the tub (rather
than in the fermenter).  This would gently warm the bottom and produce a
convection effect maintaining a constant temp and a little circulation. 
This should be pretty helpful during fermentation, but I don't know
about layering.  Anyone?  If I remember correctly that's what the pros
do with those huge conical fermenters.

It sounds like you may not have the luxury of moving around you
fermenter so easily.  You might try using a high quality submersible
heater.  This would allow you to put the heater in the bottom of the
fermenter.  I can't recall what kind of wattage you might need, but I
would definitely go with one of the high quality marine heaters; it
shouldn't be very expensive.

As far as the beer being exposed to the element, that should never
happen.  If it does, the glass (I think they are all still made of
glass) tube surrounding the element and circuitry is broken, and the
thing should short.

Let us know what you decide to do.

 -Israel

> Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 03:20:05 -0500
> From: "Dan Kiplinger" <knurdami at iname.com>
> Subject: Aquarium heaters for lagering
> 
> Does anyone know if a submersible aquarium heater will work to warm lagers
> to the appropriate temperature during fermentation?  I have mulled over this
> thought for years and never followed up on it or tried it.  I decided
> tonight that I was finally going to give it a go unless I was talked out of
> it.
> 
> My plan is to get a submersible heater with the wattage recommended for 2
> times the volume that I intend on fermenting (I will be fermenting 20 gal).
> If I remember correctly from my days as an aquarium sales dude in
> highschool, it was 25 to 50 watts per 5 gallons.  This would mean that I
> would be looking to get a heater with a wattage between 200 and 400.  400
> watts seems a bit extreme and I don' t know if that size of a heater would
> be in my $ range.  With some sort of insulation on my stainless fermenter,
> this seems to be such a simple solution that I start to get worried.
> 
> It seems to me that the amount of electricity that I will use will be no
> more than if I went through the trouble and bucks to build and insulated box
> to fit over my fermenter and heat the inside of that with a heating pad or
> such.
> 
> The things that immediately worry me are: off flavors due to the beer
> directly exposed to the element, not having enough circulation to have the
> heat disperse well enough thus having different temps throughout the
> fermenter, and the possibility of other flavor concerns due to the plastic
> used in these heater housings.
> 


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 09:24:29 -0500 
From: "Penn, John" <John.Penn at jhuapl.edu>
Subject: malta starters? His/Her Pale Ale

Malta Starters:    I am a bit disappointed in my first attempt to use Malta
Goya as a starter.  First, the bottles are screw off and I had heard that
they were standard caps.  Bummer!  Second, I didn't measure the SG but based
on the very sweet taste of the malta and the number of calories in the 7 oz
bottle I assumed the gravity was a bit more than a standard 1.020 starter.
So I took my bottle of Duvel dregs and poured a small amount of malta and a
little pre-boiled water to dilute the high SG, aerated and waited.  Last
year I tried to revive the yeast from a bottle of Chimay and a bottle of
Duvel.  The Duvel started and I made several nice Belgian style beers from
it.  The Chimay must have been old.  Granted I don't know how old this
current bottle of Duvel is but there doesn't seem to be any activity in the
starter.  I am still hoping to possibly revive some yeast from a couple of
those bottles of Belgian beer I made last winter but am very doubtful that
any yeast would survive that long.  It appears that others have used malta
for starters, what do you all do? 
   Are there any scotch ales that have bottled yeast that I can revive from
the bottle?  I've used Wyeast 1728 ("McEwans Export") and had the impression
that McEwan beers are filtered.  Are there any other Scottish Ales that have
live primary fermentation yeast in them?

Pale Ale:    Made a his/her pale ale... Something like
5 gallons (3 gallons his/ her pale ale)  His 1.075 ~51 IBUs, Hers 1.050 ~34
IBUs
Concentrated 2.5 gallon boil
8# M&F light extract
0.75# crystal malt (steeped 60L?)
2.5# clover honey
17 HBUs bittering hops if honey added at finish, else use 19 HBUs
finish hops (don't have my notes handy)
Nottingham dry yeast
  Standard extract procedures but at bottling time.  Make and ferment a 5
gallon batch of strong pale ale but get 3 gallons of strong pale ale plus 3
gallons of "normal" pale ale by diluting the last 2 gallons to 3 gallons.
FG of strong batch was about 1.015 which yields about 1.010 for the diluted
normal pale ale.  Added priming sugar and bottled 3 gallons of "His" strong
pale ale.  Boiled 1oz sugar in 1 gallon of water and siphoned that into the
remaining 2 gallons of strong pale ale to make 3 gallons of "Her" pale ale
about 2/3 the strength and bitterness resulting in a nice balance of hops
for both batches.  I was a bit worried about oxidizing by siphoning the
sugar/water solution into the bottling bucket but that seemed to go OK.  The
"Her" batch carbonated and mellowed much quicker than the "His" batch which
was somewhat interesting to me.  The yeast had been tired out in a beer of
almost 8% alcohol but they revived quicker to carbonate the 5+% alcohol pale
ale in a normal amount of time.  The stronger batch took longer to carbonate
as expected.  I am pleased with both versions!  

Scotch Ales:     Found the discussions of caramel taste vs. diacetyl and
crystal malt flavors interesting regarding scotch ales and english ales.
For my tastes I found the a long boil worked well on my last Scotch ale and
was glad to hear that Bill Frazier tried it and liked that taste too.  Hope
to make another scotch ale like that and I hope it comes out almost as well.
I posted that recipe a year or two ago and I think I will try to duplicate
it.



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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 09:35:27 -0500
From: "Scott Moore" <smoore at koyousa.com>
Subject: RE: Carboy blow-off!!

At the advice of my local homebrew store (www.grapeandgranary.com) I have
been using Crosby & Baker Anti-foam for well over a year now.  I use it when
preparing my starters to keep the flask from boiling over and in my primary
at 1 drop per gallon before aeration.  I have never had more than 2 inches
of foam even with vigorous fermentation.  For those of you worried about
head retention, it seems that I have better head retention since I started
using it. Go figure...

As for the blow-off, you could probably boil it and put it back in but I
don't know if risking a whole batch is worth it to save a gallon.  I you
ever had to endure the horror of a ruined batch you'd understand. :-)

Scott Moore,
<7 years and still no name> Brewery
Medina, Ohio


>Maybe I'm greedy but I usually put 6 gallons of wort and yeast into a 6.7
>gallon carboy. Last night the fermentation was so violent that I lost at
>least a gallon in foamy blow-off! Has anybody out there solved this problem
>(apart from using a bigger carboy or less wort to begin with)? Should I
boil
>the blow-off to sanitize it and return it to the carboy or am I asking for
>an infection? Maybe I could pressure cook the stuff or am I being too much
>of a tight wad and just throw it out?
>
>Cheers!
>
>Ian Smith


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 10:32:53 -0500
From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: iodophor / losing beer in the blow-off / yeast growth...

Demonick  wrote in part...

> Though it was not mentioned, the Band-aid, perhaps iodinish aroma that
> some brews exhibit are NOT due to iodophor, but due to the use of
> chlorinated water or bleach.  Chlorinated water can produce
> chlorophenols in your beer.  These are medicinal smelling/tasting
> compounds that are often detectable at parts per BILLION
> concentrations.

Coincidentally, I was just reading one of the back issues of BT   I scored
before that stately ship went down and it features a couple of articles on
sanitizers. In Dana Johnson's article on Chlorine Dioxide (BT  Vol. 5, No 2,
p76 - ) He claims that Iodophor can cause "medicinal or phenolic (like
Band-Aids) or sometimes metallic or 'tinny'...  He claims that it is
occasionally noticeable in finished beer.

FWIW.

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ---
Ian Smith  writes about carboy blow-off losses...

>Has anybody out there solved this problem
> (apart from using a bigger carboy or less wort to begin with)? Should I
boil
> the blow-off to sanitize it and return it to the carboy or am I asking for
> an infection? Maybe I could pressure cook the stuff or am I being too much
> of a tight wad and just throw it out?

This happened to me enough times that I finally decided to do something
about it. What was really pissing me off was when I had a big-time top
cropper yeast it was clear that a LOT of the initial blow-off was the yeast
that I'd so painstakingly grown up in the starter stage! There it was
sitting in my blow-off jug not doing anybody a bit of good. This, plus the
fact that I'd often lose a good volume of beer made me decide I should
collect and recycle this blow-off. The way I now do this is to run my
blow-off tube from the primary fermentor to the (still sanitary)  1 gallon
jug that my starter came out of. Since most of my volume/yeast losses occur
during the very early stages of the ferment (I pitch BIG  active starters) I
typically only have to recycle the blow-off once or twice during the first
24 hours of fermentation.

So far, I've had no problems with this method; no contaminations and no
off-flavors due to the brief oxygen exposure the blow off experiences (this
is happening early in the fermentation so I didn't expect this would be a
problem).

I'd be a little leary of boiling or pressure cooking the stuff before
returning it to the carboy, if your situation is anything like mine theer is
a lot of yeast in the blow-off and killing them by heating /may/ lead to
some off flavors in the finished beer but, more importantly, It is nice to
return these deserters to the fray so they can get back to work!

I suppose if you wanted to sterilizing the blow-off by heating could provide
you with some nice wort for starters (built-in yeast nutrient!)

Let us know what you end up doing...

- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Burley  writes concerning yeast growth...

> Errr, The idea behind being able to limit the
> number of growth cycles depends on the
> practical observation that in normal, "typical"
> fermentations, the yeast population levels off.
> It does this in response to the various limiting
> factors commented on by Alan.

> By controlling the pitching rate, one can
> control the number of expansions the
> population has to go through to reach this
> typical maximum population.

> Doing this is important to get a consistent
> flavor, since many of the co-geners are
> produced during the growth phase of the yeast.

As you said, I don't think we are disagreeing about what limits or controls
yeast growth, rather we seem to be slightly at odds over what the end result
of yeast population expansion will be.

I think the main problem I have with your explanation is that you are
simplifying too much. Yeast growth in wort is obviously an incredibly
complex process with many many variables, a few of which we have been
discussing in this post.

Personally, I am also a bit skeptical of the claim that the bulk of the
yeasts' flavor contributions are due to metabolic byproducts produced during
yeast cell division. I have read many papers in the scientific literature
and have yet to be thoroughly convinced that this is true. That's not to say
it isn't, I am certainly  keeping an open mind on this, it's just that I
haven't seen any firm evidence for this.

Also, I have seen decent evidence indicating that the bulk of wort
conversion is accomplished by actively dividing yeast. If this is true then
it may make no difference how much you limit your yeasts' division if the
wort conversion is mostly taking place during the "growth phase" anyway.

If all this is true then it seems the only way to avoid your problem would
be to have the fermentation take place in the presence of a large
non-dividing starter. Unfortunately this would ferment out very slowly
(unless you use a helluva lot of yeast mass) and it isn't at lall clear how
you would keep the yeast from dividing, apart from using some sort of drug.

Of course, in many styles the byproducts of yeast metabolism are quite
welcome!!

 -Alan Meeker

- -----------------------------------------------------------------





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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 10:33:00 -0500
From: Eric.Fouch at steelcase.com
Subject: Hey!

Hyper intelligent and defensive Jack says:

>I quit making beer because it was generally lousy.
>
>I attribute my renaisance to the internet but probably owe more indirectly, to
>that guy with the beard that everyone loves to hate.

Well, thanks, but it's a goatee, and I thought everybody loved me!

Eric Fouch
Bent Dick Yoctobrewery
Kentwood, MI

"Everything that can be invented, has been invented."

 - CHARLES DUELL, 1899-  Head of the Office of Patents



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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 11:08:20 -0500
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: shoes ships, sealing wax

Sorry if I am replicating info already expressed, but I'm about 15 HBDs
behind at the moment.

HOP TEA:
In making a hop tea pH is critically important to the resulting flavor.
High pH teas (above say 6.0) result in the extraction of higher proportions
of beta-acids and other less desirable components.  Unless you acidify the
'tea' water you should expect some very coarse flavors. This matches my
experience.

MASH THICKNESS:
>The true test would be to do two single infusion mashes (1) with the same
>water to grist ratio PU uses (I believe about 4 qts/pound) and (2)
"Standard"
>1 qt/#, both conducted at 145, and see what one ends up with.

It's already been done, and reported on repeatedly in the HBD archives.
Search for Harris and Hall for the tabular data.  Basically a thinner 1 hour
mash at 150F results in a small  increase in the dextrin levels and decrease
in the fermentabilty.  Not enough to matter much (69.7% fermentability for a
thin mash vs 71.2%).  As you suggest the mash temps make a much bigger
difference and are the preferred means of wort fermentability control.

HOPPING LAGERS:
>I have seen comments that a continental pilsner
>should not have a *dry hop* aroma.  Which,
>judging by the examples we get here, is true.  (Of
>course I'm sure there are hausbraueries in
>Germany that dry hop their lagers...)

Your speculation seems unfounded.  Dry hopping gives a very different aroma
than late boil hop additions.  Perhaps it is related to the boil-off of
certain flavor volatiles - not sure.  I have tried dry hopping an
underhopped Pilsner in the past and the aroma is IMO absolutely WRONG.  I
would never dry hop a lager that I intended to taste anything like the
classics.

>    9A. Oktoberfest/Maerzen Aroma:
>    ... No fruitiness, diacetyl, or hop aroma.
>
>With which I disagree.  I find a nice
>spicy hop character to be very
>attractive in an Oktoberfest.


I would suggest you try some of the classics - Paulaner is readily available
in most places - an excellent example.  I had several examples of Hel-style
fest beers in Germany over the past month too and in all of these any hop
character was very subdued.  If you enjoy adding a fair bit of hops aroma to
this style - more power to you (I personally find the dark O'fests to be
pretty heavy and sweet for my palate and would probably enjoy the extra hops
too) - but let's not insist that these are classic Octoberfests anymore.
Perhaps over hopped Hoptoverfests.

JACK S's SECRET FOR EARLY RETIREMENT.:
>Vast amounts hyper-intellegence.
                         ^                  x
                         of                'intell*I*gence'

The ungrammatical statement is false but Jack demonstrates the underlying
truth here regularly.

Some of the most intelligent and interesting people I know, and some of the
most interesting contributors to HBD too, are more likely to have spent
their 30th year in grad school or in an occupation  which appealed to their
intellectual curiosity rather than their bank account.  High intelligence is
not a requirement, nor sufficient for attaining wealth.

Entreprenurial success is more dependent on focus, persistance,
self-promotion, and a heathy(or excessive) ego with perhaps a pinch of
creativity rather than intelligence.  For corporate business success I have
repeatedly seen that a 6'1"+ stature, a full head of hair, a deep voice will
outmatch an extra 30 IQ points.  In the corporate world the ability to echo
the prevailing sentiments (party line) like a parrot  is far more useful
than any level of creativity.  The political universe deals more in power
than wealth, and has requirements similar to the corporate world, however
better Thespian skills are required (e.g. W.J.Clinton/R.Regan).

Don't take this wrong Jack.  I believe you are a bright and interesting and
very creative guy, and appreciate your contributions and commercial
products, but I see little evidence of that Newton/Gauss/Voltaire/DaVinci
genius level of intelligence is the genesis of your success.

If you wish to retire at 35 I suggest you follow Jack's example and ignore
the self-evaluation since all humans are incredibly bad at self-analysis.
It's an innate feature of the less hairy primate.


 -S (much closer to the Rennerian origin)



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Date: 05 Nov 1999 10:16:10 -0500
From: RCAYOT at solutia.com
Subject: re-pitching, blow off, wheat stuff

     Darrell Leavitt asks about his Munich Lager:
     "it took VERY long (6 days) to get going...and it is going very 
     slowly.  I know that I should have stepped it up prior to pitching, 
     but was impulsive,,,and didn't plan ahead well.  I am now going to 
     slowly drop the temp to the high end of its temp range...."
     
     Darrel: The key is not the amount of foam or bubbling but is the 
     specific gravity dropping?  If it is dropping at an even pace, 
     calculate how long it will take to get to 25-35% of OG if that is 
     three or four weeks, then, in my experience thats probably going to be 
     good beer!  On the other hand, I am not clear about you "dropping the 
     temperature to the high end of the range"  If that means that you are 
     not yet at a low (55-60F) temperature, then you may well be having 
     trouble.  Pitching more yeast has never been a problem for me, I have 
     done it numerous times, and it usually helps, I never had re-pitching 
     be the source of a problem.
     
     On another note:
     From: Ian Smith <isrs at cmed.com>
     Subject: Carboy blow-off!!
     
     Ian, its probably too late to return the blow off to the beer unless 
     you saved it in the refrigerator, and even then after a couple of 
     days, I wouldn't.  However, when I use the blow off system, I try to 
     have the blow off go into as small a volume of water I can get away 
     with in at least a 1/2 to 1 gallon jug.  I then allow the foam to 
     subside, add a little water if necessary, place the liquid in the 
     refrigerator adn replace the fermentation lock on the fermenter.  the 
     next day, if the beer is an ale, there will probably be a whole lot of 
     really nice healthy yeast on the bottom of the blown off liquid!  I 
     then add the top liquid part back to the fermenter, and wash ther 
     yeast into a small mason jar, and save it up to a week or two under a 
     little water, or beter yet, under some beer with the cap of the mason 
     jar slightly loose.  The key is to not have the yeast be fermenting in 
     the persence of oxygen and not having any food.  Anyway, you can use 
     that yeast on your next batch of beer, or use it when you bottle or 
     keg to naturally kreusen (spelling?) your beer.  To do thet, I take 
     some saved wort (you all do save a little wort from a batch now and 
     then and can it in mason jars don't you?) and pitch a little of this 
     yeast in it about 8-12 hours before bottling/kegging.  Add this to 
     your beer when priming, and then bottle/keg.  You will be surprised at 
     how fast the beer will carbonate under these conditions!  I have had 
     well carbonated very fresh drinkable beer in bottles in less than 48h 
     using this technique!
     
     I have, however stopped using this technique in favor of open 
     fermentation for ales, and force carbonating instead of priming.  So, 
     if you want, just add the stuff back to the primary when fermentation 
     subsides if that is a 24-48 hours or less, AND that you did sanitize 
     the blow off container and junk didn't fall into it!
     
     My comments on the weizzenbock recipies etc, would be that I would 
     recommend replacing at least half (preferably all) of the munich in 
     the recipie below with DARK WHEAT:
     
     4.75 lb. dark Munich malt
     7.5 lb. wheat malt
     0.25 oz. Perle hop plug 9.5% AA (120 minutes)
     0.125 oz. Perle hop plug 9.5% AA (60 minutes)
     0.125 oz. Perle hop plug 9.5% AA (10 minutes)
     Wyeast 3068 Weihenstephan ale yeast
     1.5 qt. gyle to prime
     
     OG = 1.070
     FG = 1.012
     Boil time 120 minutes
     Primary fermentation 1 week (plastic) 68 deg. F
      Secondary fermentation 3 weeks (glass) 68 deg. F -- I had the 
     primary/secondary times mixed up in Zymurgy
     
     Double decoction mash
     
     I would also keep the decoction mash.  Uipping the hops just a tad 
     might also bring the beer into beter balance, this is going to be a 
     big malty beer, a little more hops will help not hurt the boverall 
     balance.  congrats to Keith MacNeal on his award winning beer!
     
     Roger Ayotte


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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 10:25:59 -0500
From: "St. Patrick's" <stpats at bga.com>
Subject: Prickly Pears/Honeys

St Pats now offers Prickly Pear Puree for those that can't get their hands
on the fruit.  This is both the juice and the fruit after removing the
skins.  I'd like to hear from those with experience about suggested amounts
in mead etc.

We've added Dakota clover, Texas cotton, and California orange blossom
honeys.  Also I hope to receive a small amount of TUPELO honey from
Florida.  This is the rarest honey in America with a great reputation but
may disappear within the next few years due to loss of habitat.  I have
carried mesquite and huajillo for years.  Huajillo (guajillo) is a native
Texas honey which was known worldwide a century ago but it's production is
very small now due to cattle ranching.

Perhaps more importantly, we will now offer some honey specs on our web
page.  These will include water content and color (red lovibond scale).
We'll also specify the region each honey is from and comment on each year's
particular quality.  For example, this year's Texas cotton honey is not as
good (due to the drought) as last but huajillo is the best in at least 5
years.  California orange blossom is excellent this year.

Lynne O'Connor
St. Patrick's of Texas Brewers Supply
www.stpats.com

St. Patrick's of Texas		http://www.stpats.com
Brewers Supply		stpats at bga.com  (e-mail)
1828 Fleischer Drive		512-989-9727
Austin, Texas 78728		512-989-8982   facsimile

*********** We have Budweiser Budvar merchandise! **********************






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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 10:26:13 -0500
From: "St. Patrick's" <stpats at bga.com>
Subject: Malt Modification

Jim Liddil correctly noted that Kolbach in and of itself is insufficient
when discussing malt modification.  However, paraphrasing Narziss (and also
in my catalog for several years now) one of the two defining
characteristics  of "modern" malt is homogeneity, both between barleycorns
and within barleycorns with regards all aspects of modification.  Hence, if
you are using "modern malt" then Kolbach alone is a good indicator of
modification just as Hartong or viscosity or acrospire length would be as
well.

I heartily agree with Jim that one should look at several of these numbers
to insure that there is nothing askew, in other words Kolbach of 43 and
Hartong of 35 would lead one to wonder what the hell happened in the
malthouse.  However, it is not well appreciated that all of the numbers can
look fine and you can still have a problem.  There was an article in JASBC
a few years back about glucan problems resulting from temperature and
moisture inadequacies during malting---and in most cases other specs looked
fine.  So that would lead one to request glucan content which can be done
now and in fact is requested by major brewers.  However, it is little
appreciated that the margin of error is more than 25% for this test so it
isn't worth all that much.  More specifically, a value of 150 is the same
within experimental error as a value of 250.

The problem of inordinately high glucans arose several years ago.  I became
aware of the problem by two independent observations.  First, an extract
was made from this malt which was extremely viscous.  I inquired about the
water content only to find it was normal, about 20%.  The same week I heard
from a brewpub that had a terrible time lautering a beer made with this
malt.  It was a month or so later that I heard independently about the
problem malt.  For the record, the problem malt and extract were not from
Briess.

Speaking of Briess, it was I who renamed Ashburne malt 'ESB'.  This was
long before Briess added the words 'Mild Ale'.  It was also I who first
added the word 'Munich' to Bonlander.  In both cases, I felt the malts
would not be understood unless properly named, a position Briess later
arrived at.

Lynne O'Connor
St. Patrick's of Texas Brewers Supply
www.stpats.com
St. Patrick's of Texas		http://www.stpats.com
Brewers Supply		stpats at bga.com  (e-mail)
1828 Fleischer Drive		512-989-9727
Austin, Texas 78728		512-989-8982   facsimile

*********** We have Budweiser Budvar merchandise! **********************






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Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 09:37:21 -0700 (MST)
From: stealth at aztec.asu.edu (BOB STARK)
Subject: Re: Aquarium heaters for lagering


>------------------------------

 I haen't tried this but back in my old photo developing days I found that
placing three or four smaller aquarium heaters around a water bath kept the
chemicals at the proper temp with less temperature differencial then using
one. (Did not require any stirring or mixing)

Just .02 to think about

 Bob Stark


>
>Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 03:20:05 -0500
>From: "Dan Kiplinger" <knurdami at iname.com>
>Subject: Aquarium heaters for lagering
>
>Does anyone know if a submersible aquarium heater will work to warm lagers
>to the appropriate temperature during fermentation?  I have mulled over this
>thought for years and never followed up on it or tried it.  I decided
>tonight that I was finally going to give it a go unless I was talked out of
>it.
 
:: much deleted for breviety::



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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 08:50:11 -0800
From: Jeff Hall <hallj at targen.com>
Subject: Re: aquarium heater

Dan Kiplinger asked about using an aquarium heater to warm his brew.
I've been thinking about doing something like this to keep ales going
during the cold season.  Here's what I'm considering:
Instead of submersing the heater in the beer, try placing your carboy
into another container such as a trash can.  Fill water around the carboy,
and put the submersible heater in the water.  These things can get a bit
warm (although modern submersibles are much better than the old days),
so I'd use a heavy plastic or metal container.  To save energy, wrap the
can in a blanket or such.  Use a good thermometer to set the thermostat
of the heater, and from what I remember of my fish store days, the
temp should stay pretty consistant.  Depending on the temp you want
to maintain, you may not need a 50 gallon heater for a 50 gallon can
since the temperature for fish is usually around 70.  You might want
to experiment with a carboy full of water before commiting any beer
to it.  I'd be interested in knowing how it works out.

Jeff Hall, Seattle

>
>Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 03:20:05 -0500
>From: "Dan Kiplinger" <knurdami at iname.com>
>Subject: Aquarium heaters for lagering
>
>Does anyone know if a submersible aquarium heater will work to warm lagers
>to the appropriate temperature during fermentation?  I have mulled over this
>thought for years and never followed up on it or tried it.  I decided
>tonight that I was finally going to give it a go unless I was talked out of
>it.
>



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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 16:50:21 -0000
From: "Nigel Porter" <nigel at sparger.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Aquarium heaters for lagering

Dan Kiplinger asks about aquarium heaters for fermenting:

I use a 50W aquarium heater in my ten gallon open fermter. This 
keeps temperature at ale fermenting temp (I usually set mine to about 
19.5 deg C) fine during the winter. I have never noticed any 
problems with off flavours that I can pin down to the heater. It 
usually sits somewher around the bottom of the fermentor. Taking 
temperature readings at the surface, it is always around the temp that 
I have set. This type of heating dead easy to set up, and regulates 
temperature fine.

Nigel Porter


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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 11:59:00 -0500
From: "Dan Kiplinger" <knurdami at iname.com>
Subject: Aquarium heater

I guess I failed to point out two facts that people are being confused by.

1. The fetmenter will be out in the garage for the winter and the ambient
air temp will bounce around but be well below 40F.

2. My fermenter is a surplus stainless steel tank (50 gal) that is on legs
and a water bath is next to impossible for me.

Dan


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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 09:00:57 -0800
From: "John Palmer" <jjpalmer at gte.net>
Subject: How to De-lead Brass

I missed Pete's post yesterday, but caught John S's response today.

Deleading of brass by soaking in a 2:1 solution of hydrogen peroxide and
vinegar should only last 15 MINUTES. Not 1 hour, not 24 hours. The solution
SHOULD NOT turn blue. If it turns blue, then the hydrogen peroxide has been
used up and the copper is dissolving, exposing more lead that will not be
dissolved.

You need to buff the parts with a scrubby to get the tarnish off, and soak
them again in FRESH solution. And if you did it wrong and used the tarnished
parts you have not poisoned yourself. You have exposed yourself to a very
small amount of lead. Less than when we used to use leaded gasoline in our
cars every day.

When deleading is complete, the parts should be buttery yellow, and the
solution should still be mostly colorless. Faint blue is okay.

John Palmer
Palmer House Brewery and Smithy
www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer  (where most of my articles are archived)



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