---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  too high mash temp (TKBFRED)
  Jack and The WordMixer Strikes Again... Apologies ("Jack Schmidling")
  Melanoidin Malt (TKBFRED)
  Re: Brewer's Worst Thermometers (Ted McIrvine)
  efficiency & stuff ("Stephen Alexander")
  Re: flour in witbier (KMacneal)
  protein rest? ("Darrell Leavitt")
  Re: Bier de Garde (Jim Wallace)
  Lager brewing (Nathan Kanous)
  water analysis ("Charles Beaver")
  neucleation and boiling (Brian Pickerill)
   ("Branam, Mike")
  Hoppers (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Microwaves (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Holy honkin' hoppers, Matban! (Some Guy)
  Full Sail Amber Clone (SClaus4688)
  UV sterilization ("Eric J. Sperber")
  Practical Brewer (Marc Sedam)
  Re: Efficiency standards (VQuante)
  Tip for Improving Efficiency (Kirk.Fleming)
  Process Flow Diagram ("Francois Zinserling")
  Alcohol to Sanitize? ("Loren Crow")
  Microwave Legends ("Jack Schmidling")
  re: Yankee Confusion (Lou.Heavner)
  Food Value Calculations (mellis)
  re:a/c and beer (Jim Liddil)


* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!

* Entry deadline for the Mayfare Homebrew Competition is 3/15/00 
* See http://www.maltosefalcons.com/ for more information

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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 00:43:09 EST
From: TKBFRED at aol.com
Subject: too high mash temp


>stencil wrote:
>What will be the effect of too-high a mash temperature on
>fermentability, flavor, and other qualities?

If your mash temperature is too high, you kill the enzymes, which have a 
certain temperature spectrum to do their job of converting sugars, for 
example.
Fermentability ===> you will have a lot of residual sugars left,
which will change the whole ====> flavor profile, sometimes to sweet beers 
are the result,
and it makes it easier for bacteria to attack your finished beer.

Fred M. Scheer


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Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 23:45:09 -0600
From: "Jack Schmidling" <arf at mc.net>
Subject: Jack and The WordMixer Strikes Again... Apologies

From: Midwest Brewer <mgeorge at bridge.com>

>I do have one honest question for you Jack:  Are we using obsolete
equipment because...WE DIDN'T FATTEN YOUR DAMN WALLET???

You are using obsolete equipment because you don't know any better and nothing
fattens my wallet because I donate every penny I ever earn to my favorite
charities.


From: "Francois Zinserling" <francois at designtech.co.za>

>Have you ever had that feeling of ... "now I've really screwed up" ? Hardly
had I posted my 2 cents worth on the Microwave Bombs, when replies started
coming in from the REAL professionals......

Precisely why I occasionally post seemingly off topic topics.  I know I can
count on this group to answer just about any question that I can't.  These folks
are a fantastic resource and I have no qualms about milking them.  I just wish
some of them would get interested in cheese making, we are still in the stone
age there with the blind leading the blind.

js


HOME: Beer, Cheese, Astronomy, Videos  http://user.mc.net/arf




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Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 00:51:46 EST
From: TKBFRED at aol.com
Subject: Melanoidin Malt

>scott wrote:
>Subject: how much melanoidin malt is too much?

We made some test brews (15 gal while I was brewing in Frankenmuth,MI,
and from my experience, I would recommend to go to 2.5 Lbs. of Melanoidin 
Malt.
But, I did not used it in a doppel bock, our Bock Beer was brewed with
* 80% 2-row Pilsener Malt (Briess)
*  5 % wheat Malt (Briess)
* 10% Dark malt (400*L) (Briess)
*   5 % Munich Malt (Briess)
By the way, the people at Briess do not pay me for mentioning their name!

Fred M. Scheer


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Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 01:57:31 -0800
From: Ted McIrvine <McIrvine at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Brewer's Worst Thermometers

I have had nothing but terrible experiences with Brewer's Best
thermometers.  After a while, I get terrible readings in which something
that is visibly boiling registers around 150 degrees on the
thermometer.  Unfortunately the only alternatives that I've found are
quite expensive.  (I now appreciate some of the reasons behind process
in decoction mashing as well as in Scotch ale mashing regimes, both
pre-dating thermometers.)  What does the collective wisdom use that is
1) accurate and 2) in the $20-$50 range?

Cheers
Ted
Rennerian Coordinate: Almost as far due East as possible (3 miles)
without being in the Atlantic Ocean

> > Andrew Nix said:
> > "OK, one more....those floating thermometers (Brewer's Best I think), anyone
> > else have a problem with the rubber handle coming off
> >
> > To which Ronald La Borde said:
> > "I tossed mine, it seemed like the quintessential mark of a beginning
> > homebrewer.   :^)"
> >
> > Paul Kensler <Paul.Kensler at cyberstar.com> added:
> > Yes, my Bewers Best thermometer's little
> > rubber cap comes off in the mash....
> > Regarding the usefulness of these thermometers, I used to think along the
> > same lines as Ron (I figured it can't be good, it came with my first kit and
> > isn't NEARLY as cool as my dial thermometers!).  Then I bought a lab-grade
> > mercury thermometer for calibration - I discovered that my dial thermometers
> > were 5-10 degrees off and my Brewers Best was within 1 degree of the lab
> > thermometer!  Each time I check calibration I have to adjust the dial
> > thermometers again, and the BB is always within 1 degree.
> >
> > and this is in no way an endorsement of the Brewers Best line of
> > thermometers (flame suit on!).

- -- 
Dr. Ted McIrvine     McIrvine at Ix.Netcom.Com
College of Staten Island/CUNY

"Music is the hidden arithmetical exercise of a mind unconscious that is
calculating."  
Gottfried Leibniz, quoted in Lorenz Mizler's Musikalische Bibliothek


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Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 04:51:08 -0500
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: efficiency & stuff

Herr Volker suggests Plato per kg per Liter.  The British journal JIB uses
'liter degree per kg' where a degree is the same 0.001 SG difference that we
HBers call a point.  Not sure what the German lit uses for units.

From: J Daoust asks
>OK, I understand the correlation between higher mash temp giving a
>"sweeter" brew, but does that also give less efficiency? If so, is there
>a scale we can use to forecast the efficiency? Like  158 degrees =70%;
>156=75%; 154=80%  ???  Thanks, Jerry Daoust

"Sweeter" is probably a poor description of the impact.  More dextrinous is
more supported.  The yeast consume the sweet tasting sugars regardless of
fermentability.   Dextrinous fluids are more filling and arguably add to
body and certainly viscosity.  Pure commercial food dextrin does not does
not taste sweet, nor does it taste starchy.

For normal brewing water:grist ratios (1 to 1.5 qt/lb [or 2 to 3: L/kg for
Phil&Jill) the extraction efficiency rises with temperature tho' from 65C to
80C the figures fall within a 10% range.  In thinner (more watery) mashes
the difference becomes negligible.  In this experiment at 1.25qt/lb the wort
varied from about 9P to 9.5P as mash temps increased from 70C to 80C - but I
wouldn't be planning heavily around these figures.  Many other factors make
as much difference.

Fermentability (real attenuability not apparent) dropped in the samples (at
1.25qt/lb) from about 69% at 70C, to just over 50% at 75C, and under 30% at
80C.
- --

Phil says ...
>Jack, if you crazy loonies can't even learn to drive on the proper side of
>the road, what hope do you have coming to terms with the metric system?

Phil doesn't recognize the obvious relationship between shifter on the right
and good lager brewing that will keep his country in the ale age for
generations to come.

>Fact is, back in the 70's the USA missed a great opportunity to run with a
>far better measuring system

Oh yeah - that old French system based on a bad estimate of one quarter of
the earth's circumference (a meter was to be 10^-7 of the distance from pole
to equator), or 1/100 of the temp between the freezing and boiling point of
a rather common molecular substance at a rather arbitrary pressure.   For
mass a volume (based on the oddly defined and ill-measured meter) of  the
common molecule used for temps were employed ....   Of course the definition
of the standards has shifted, but the basis and size of the units has not.
Even the French didn't revolt against the Babylonian based units of time.
Where's your metric day Phil ?

It's trivially easy to derive a (actually 4) complete and consistent system
of measure based on universal constants -  the unit charge, the speed of
light, Planks constant and  (which one am I forgetting?).  Why change twice
?

The advantages of metric are that one can calculate *only* units w/o
multiplication if you use base 10.  The last time I looked calculators were
cheaper than bottled water, and once GMO catches on you can say goodbye to
having 10 fingers or toes to count on - and there goes the base10 system.

Anyway that is my defense of the indefensible Phil, what do you think ?  ;^)

 -S









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Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 07:20:04 EST
From: KMacneal at aol.com
Subject: Re: flour in witbier

In a message dated 2/2/2000 12:14:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
David.Houseman at unisys.com writes:

<<  Keith says he uses whole wheat flour from the grocery store in his wit.  I
 like the idea enough to try it but, what's the equivalent in pounds of wheat
 berries/seeds?  Or rather what's the points per pound of whole wheat flour?
 Anything special in trying to mash this with pils malt?  No guey mess trying
 to sparge?  
 
 Dave Houseman  >>

Dave,

I made the assumption that 1 lb. of whole wheat flour = 1 lb. of whole wheat 
grain.  I follow Rajotte's suggestion and use a sifter to add the flour to 
the mash.  No guey sparges yet.

Keith MacNeal
Worcester, MA



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Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 07:51:51 -0400
From: "Darrell Leavitt"<Darrell_Leavitt at esc.edu>
Subject: protein rest?


Whilst flipping through Papazian's HOME BREWERS GOLD, and looking for some
pilsner recipes I noticed on p. 246-248 a gold cup winner, Redwood Coast
Alpine Gold Pilsner. The recipe calls for 8lb 2 row, 1/4 lb american wheat
malt, 1/2 lb american munich, 1/4 lb cara-pils.  They recommend a step
infusion, the first step being at 133 F, for 30 minutes.  Is this just due
to the wheat malt (and supposed higher protein),....or may there be another
reason?
 ..Darrell




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Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 08:58:55 -0500
From: Jim Wallace <jwallace at crocker.com>
Subject: Re: Bier de Garde

>From: Graham Sanders 

>I want to brew a Biere de Garde but am having problems with some aspects of
>this style.

>Its more to do with technique and that troublesome flavour question.
 ..... the troublesome flavor is the earthy tone of these beers

>is to let the wort simmer for a couple of hours after the main boil (with
>the lid on) to encourage caramalization and that nice red colour. Is there
>any truth in that?
 ...... this can give you the deep red tones of kettle carmelization without
the dark grain flavors. I have also pulled off the first runnings and
boiled them in a small pan and added back for this effect

>But the big question that I'm sure has been asked many times - How do you
>get that earthy, cellar type flavour?
 ...... I have had the same prob getting the earthy tone. I feel it comes
not so much from the fermentation organisms but from the corked bottles and
where they are stored. many people seem to think that the cool dampness of
this region just like the lambic region further north encourage the molds
and yeast that provide these musty flavors. I have tried corking but not
gotten the same results. I now have a new cold cellar that maintains earth
temp and will try again. I do not notice this mustiness in the belgin beers
but the brewers there say that high humidity is to be avoided and their
refermentations  can get close to 80F. I will be asking about moisture
levels and referm temps when I visit in france. 

>I would like to know what is the latest thinking and opinions are in this
>area.
 .... I am leaving in a few weeks to visit several belgian brewer friends
and plan to spend some time visiting brewers over the border in france .
This is one of the questions at the top of my list.

__________JIM WALLACE ____________
             jwallace at crocker.com
      http://www.crocker.com/~jwallace  



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Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 08:41:46 -0600
From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu>
Subject: Lager brewing

Hi All,
Regarding the use of the WYeast 2565 Koelsch yeast, Paul Lyon states / types:

"You may want to chill the wort right after pitching the yeast and ferment 
at the lower range of the yeasts tolerant temps for the first few days to 
avoid the fruity tones.  Then warm to upper range before the beer is 
finished to get rid of any diacetyl, then cold chill for aging.  This may 
clean up some of the fruity esters..."

This is actually how I've brewed lagers.  One problem that homebrewers 
commonly encounter is difficulty pitching enough yeast to ferment a 
lager.  I use a process similar to what Paul mentions.  I pitch the yeast 
on the cold end of the "recommended" temp range and once I start to see 
fermentation, I let the temp slowly rise.  Ultimately, they end up 
finishing in the mid to upper 50's.  I say that because I set my thermostat 
to around 53 deg F and I know that the fermenting wort is warmer than that.

Now, this is not the last word on lager brewing (I'm no expert...nor a 
certified judge) but it works pretty well for me and who can argue with a 
guy that works at NASA (that'd be Paul)?

That's my $0.02.  Anybody else care to chime in to help those who have not 
yet ventured to lager brewing cause "it's too hard"?  Now back to our 
regularly scheduled discussion of microwave thermodynamics.
nathan in madison, wi


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Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:52:57 -0600
From: "Charles Beaver" <cbeav at netnitco.net>
Subject: water analysis

I am trying to use the analysis of the bottled water I use for brewing to
adjust the water for various brewing styles. I am using Promash to compute
the adjustments that are needed. My problem is that in the analysis I find
no lisitng of "carbonate". In Promash the pH seems to vary as a funtion of
this value. The pH of my bottled water is 6.9. I suspect that the carbonate
value is expressed by the "hardness (calcium)" measurment but I don't know
how to use it in Promash. The hardness of the botted water is 95 mg/L. Can
anyone shed any light on this?




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Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 09:55:02 -0500
From: Brian Pickerill <bpickerill at mac.com>
Subject: neucleation and boiling

>Regarding superheated water in the microwave; this is an all too real
>phenomenon and is analogous to making a supersaturated solution with say
>salt or sugar. In both cases the solutions are metastable and can react to
>the smallest perturbation such as simply jostling the container. In the lab
>we are VERY aware of this phenomenon since microwaves have in many cases
>supplanted the old Bunsen burner as a handy way to bring solutions to a
>boil. I had to personally escort a summer student down to the ER after he
>suffered burns from a container of superheated agar solution which he
>swirled while looking down the opening of the Erlenmeyer flask!

Yes, in fact, if you have tried to use a microwave for making starters, you've
probably noticed that it's nearly impossible to boil in them without going
from nothing to boiling over in no time.  A boiling stone (a couple of
pieces of sanitized aquarium gravel maybe) in the erlenmyer (qt jar,
whatever) will help when boiling starters in the microwave --you will have
enough time to stop the microwave before a boilover occurs if you watch it
very closely.  I need boiling stones in the 1 lt erlenmyer I have, even
when boiling on the electric range, or I will get a boilover every time.
It all erupts at once without the stones.

- --Brian Pickerill, Muncie IN




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Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 10:04:36 -0500 
From: "Branam, Mike" <Mike.Branam at BellSouth.COM>
Subject: 

I am building a 3 tier brewing system out of SS beer kegs. I have cut out
the tops I have SS ball valves and couplings. My questions is how far up the
sides do I place the couplings for the ball valve and the thermometer.

Thanks


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Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 09:53:59 -0600 
From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: Hoppers

>From: "Jack Schmidling" <arf at mc.net>
>Subject: arts and crafts and beer

>From: jliddil at VMS.ARIZONA.EDU

>>I'm considering replacing the base on my Maltmil(tm) with a piece of
>quarter-sawn oak and suing oak cabinet plywood for the hopper etc.  anyone
>done such a thing?

>As a matter of fact it is a $400 option on the MM but it also includes a
>sterling silver crank.

With my maltmill motorized, it's great fun to pour the grains from a 5 gal
bucket into the purring mill.  I like to watch the grains and look for any
foreign matter (rocks, crap, who-knows-what) as the hopper is loaded.  To
crush 10 or 20 pounds for a brewing session takes maybe 3 minutes.

Now why would anyone feel the need for a larger hopper?  Is 3 minutes of fun
just more than you can stand??  The time you would take to build the  hopper
could be used to crush hundreds of pounds of grain.  I just don't get it.

Ron

Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu
http://members.xoom.com/rlabor/



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Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 10:05:19 -0600 
From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: Microwaves

From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com>

>On MW ovens: DO NOT pop the door open with the latch during a cook cycle. 
>This can let MWs escape before they finish reflecting around the cavity.
>This
>is especially noticable if you have a small mass in the cavity (such as a
>teacup)
>as compared to a turkey. 
> This has been measured and is not conjecture. If you want to open it hit
>"pause"
> then open the door.

Oh no, I have been doing this for years with my coffee. It could be true
though, now that I think about it.  One way to find out for sure would be to
place a small fluorescent lamp inside with the coffee, then carefully watch
as the door latch is pushed.  If the lamp immediately goes out, then this
theory is BS.

Ron

Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu
http://members.xoom.com/rlabor/



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Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 12:06:52 -0500 (EST)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Holy honkin' hoppers, Matban!

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) says of Hoppers...
 
> Now why would anyone feel the need for a larger hopper?  Is 3 minutes of fun
> just more than you can stand??  The time you would take to build the  hopper
> could be used to crush hundreds of pounds of grain.  I just don't get it.

Part of it is the ability to load 'er up, and let 'er rip. Another part is
what may have driven Jack to develop the MM in the first place: it's FUN
to create things with your own intellect. Another is that a motorized mill
with some big 'ol funnel-like hopper thingy on top really looks cool, and
amazes all your friends. My Humongous Hopper [tm] with Super Shutter [tm]
is not a necessity of the brew, but it looks really impressive, has a
slide I can play with and I Made It Myself [tm]. That, and the Mill
Motorization Insert stand [tm], compleat with Bucket Hanging Shuttered
Chute [tm], tells me that I'm the Bestest Brewer In The Neighborhood [tm]
(That I'm the ONLY brewer in my neighborhood notwithstanding. And many
other brewers chased me 'round and 'round it until they turned into pools
of melted butter. Diacetyl anyone?) Hell, I can sell tickets to watch it
run!

 -
See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.com
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock
           "Brew my own beer? I usetacould."



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Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 12:40:48 EST
From: SClaus4688 at aol.com
Subject: Full Sail Amber Clone

Darren Gaylor posted useful information in HBD 3238 on cloning Full Sail 
Amber.  I'm writing to follow up on my own experience in trying to replicate 
this very drinkable example of a Pacific Northwest style amber.

First, I've read several places and heard from folks in the industry that 
Full Sail's house ale yeast is 1084 (Wyeast Irish).  Full Sail Amber is 
fruity with slight diacetyl.  Using 1084 in a clone attempt would bring out 
these flavors and certainly make a more interesting beer than the bland 1056.

Darren used the following grain bill:

>17.50 lbs Great Western 2 row.  (Any pale/pilsner malt should do)
 >2.00 lbs Crystal 60l
 >0.50 lbs Chocolate

In my random uncontrolled experiments, the closest I've come to Full Sail 
Amber was in a beer that had about 40 percent Munich Malt.  I also cut the 
Crystal malt and chocolate malt to half of what Darren used.  I have my 
version on tap now, and it is a scary dead ringer for the Full Sail Amber.

By the way, I highly recommend just about any of the Full Sail products.  In 
the midst of all the microbrew hooplah and buy outs in this region, Full Sail 
just keeps focused on making tasty stable consistent beers.  The brewery is 
also worth a visit, as there's usually something unusual on tap.  At a visit 
a couple weeks ago, I had a beer the assistant brewery manager had named 
Ass-Pony Ale (the bar tap was made from the rear half of a bright pink and 
purple plastic toy horse).  It was light golden, about 9 percent alcohol, 90 
IBUs and rendered me incapable of driving.

Steve Claussen in PDX


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Date: 	Wed, 2 Feb 2000 12:45:59 -0500
From: "Eric J. Sperber" <sperbeej at email.uc.edu>
Subject: UV sterilization

I have just started my first batch of brew this past weekend and one of
the first things I noticed about the process is that it scares the crap
out of you to even breathe, for fear of contamination.  I am praying
that my first brew is actually drinkable.  I am also interested in fish
tanks, and in-line UV sterilization filters are often used in saltwater
tanks.  I am thinking of this for beer prior to adding the yeast.  Would
this royally skunk the beer.  Do the elements that are skunked by UV
exist before fermentation, before boiling the sugars?  Are they from the
hops or the barley?  Any theories or experience with this sort of thing?
Eric 
Cincinnati


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Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 13:33:28 -0500
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: Practical Brewer

Just so you know, the MBAA removed the Practical Brewer
download.  Maybe there is too much of a good thing.

 -Marc



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Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 14:08:07 EST
From: VQuante at aol.com
Subject: Re: Efficiency standards

In einer eMail vom 01.02.00 06:06:31 (MEZ) Mitteleuropaeische Zeit schreibt 
"George de Piro" <gdepiro at mindspring.com>:

>  For this, I find that the metric system works best
>  (because it is so easy).

Well spoken, George !!!

(And it - the metric system - doesn't cause problems on NASA space 
missions...)

Volker

Volker R. Quante
Brunnenbraeu Homebrewery

Brewing and working in Warsaw / Poland, but definitely a German Homebrewer


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Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 13:13:41 -0600 
From: Kirk.Fleming at born.com
Subject: Tip for Improving Efficiency

I have, like many others, been unable to get extraction efficiencies above
about 65%...until recently when I discovered an incrediby useful technique.

Generally during a 90 minute boil there comes an increasingly lack of
attention to the boil on the part of the brew crew.  During one of these
moments when attentions are directed elsewhere, I add a 24oz sack of
Turbinado sugar to the boil (I only brew pale ales, generally).  Depending
on batch size, of course, this can markedly improve yield.  

NOTE: This technique only works if the additional ingredient isn't witnessed
nor recorded.

For only pennies per gallon, the advanced brewer can boast rather
extraordinary yields and clearly demonstrate his or her enviable, and
uncanny, brewing prowess.

Kirk Fleming
FRSL, FRSE, MSRP.


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Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 21:34:12 +0200
From: "Francois Zinserling" <francois at designtech.co.za>
Subject: Process Flow Diagram

I recently saw an excellent process flow diagram on the wall of a
micro-brewery, depicting each stage of the brewing process quite well. (Yes,
even at my age I still prefer to read the pictures .. heh heh) It was by
ALPHA LAVAL, and I had hoped to find it on their website, but there was no
copy of this unfortunately.

Can anyone recommend a website that shows the complete process flow diagram
of a brewery? Or a book perhaps ?

Francois



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Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 14:14:18 -0600
From: "Loren Crow" <lorencrow at earthling.net>
Subject: Alcohol to Sanitize?

NatureMy practice has always been to use alcohol -- usually cheap vodka --
to sanitize small items on the fly, like a thermometer for measuring the
temp of yeast rehydration water or the end of a racking cane that
accidentally touched something.  I've never had a problem with this method,
and never (knock on wood!) had an infection that resulted from this
practice.  However, a friend of mine -- she teaches in a university nursing
program and works in a biology lab -- told me the other day that alcohol is
almost useless as a sanitizing agent unless contact is maintained for about
30 minutes.  A quick dip in alcohol simply does not kill bacteria or germs,
according to her.  She was talking about using alcohol as a prep for
subdermal injections, but the implication seemed to be that it would also be
true for my brewing applications.

Does anyone know with certainty whether or not this is the case?

Thanks!
Loren Crow
lorencrow at earthling.net




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Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 15:18:36 -0600
From: "Jack Schmidling" <arf at mc.net>
Subject: Microwave Legends

Guess I don't need to apologize for bringing up the micorwave bomb but after
reading all the responses, I have a few comments of my own.

1.  Science supports the legend as a possibility.

2.  Case histories for actual injuries are sparse indeed.

3.  The manuals on our several microwave ovens have no warnings about the
problem.

4.  I have never heard of a law suit over the issue.

Considering that a ladder manufacturer lost a lawsuit because there was no
warning about putting the feet of his ladder in a frozen cow pie, and McDonalds
paid millions for a hot cup of coffee, my intuition says the issue is more urban
legend that a real problem.

In our litigating society, it is hard to believe that this danger would only be
known because of some caring person on the internet who chooses to remain
annonymous.

It's nice to be aware of the potential problem but I guess I will still sanitize
my cheesemaking glass ware without filling it with marbles.

js

PHOTO OF THE WEEK  http://user.mc.net/arf/weekly.htm
HOME: Beer, Cheese, Astronomy, Videos  http://user.mc.net/arf




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Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 17:17:52 -0600
From: Lou.Heavner at frco.com
Subject: re: Yankee Confusion

     I know Phil from down under was just yanking Jack's chain and the
     whole subject is a bit off topic,  but a great new book on high tech
     monopolies and anti-trust is out and it devotes a couple of pages to
     the metric question and even mentions driving on the wrong side.
     Check out Winners, Losers, & Microsoft by Liebowitz and Margolis,
     specifically pages 129-130.  As usual, no affiliation or compensation
     yada yada...

     To keep this somewhat related to beer, I received a can (kit?) of
     hopped malt extract for Christmas which is supposed to be some kind of
     Alaskan smoked amber beer.  Typical instructions included... don't
     boil or you'll lose the hop flavor and aroma, add sugar to get the
     correct gravity, etc... and a small packet of dried yeast which may
     have been abused who knows how.  I just made a wee heavy which came
     out fabulously in spite of under pitching.  It was based on some
     guidelines Al K and/or others had offered long ago in this forum for a
     Tartain House which I've never personally tried.  I saved the yeast
     and have had it in the fridge under water for about 2 weeks.  I intend
     to make a small extract batch using no sugar and the yeast saved from
     the wee heavy.  I will probably try to get the yeast going again in
     advance with a starter just to ensure viability.  I am going to boil
     and chill my water and sanitize the #$%^ out of the can, can
     opener,and spatula and try a no boil batch.  We'll see how it turns
     out.  If it turns out, ya'll will have some 'splainin to do.  If not,
     I can blame it on so many things that I should not do!  ;)

     Regards,

     Lou Heavner - Austin, Tx  (a Yank to some, but definitely not a damn
     yankee!)


     Phil or Jill or whoever writes:

     >Jack, if you crazy loonies can't even learn to drive on the proper
     >side of
     >the road, what hope do you have coming to terms with the metric
     >system?

     >Volker might also drive on the wrong side of the road, but if he can
     >talk
     >kilos per litre, well I don't mind having to occasionally swerve
     >around him.

     >Fact is, back in the 70's the USA missed a great opportunity to run
     >with a
     >far better measuring system, and now you all have to live with that
     >decision. I suggest you all lower the red, white and blue from your
     >back
     >yards and hoist up the union jack. It's their system you are still
     >clinging
     >on to. But even they got wise and dumped it.



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Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 10:31:27 +1100
From: mellis at gribbles.com.au
Subject: Food Value Calculations 

Hi all,

Just wondering if any of you kind souls know how I can calculate 
the finished food value in calories/kilojoules from the OG/FG 
readings for the finished beer. I am a bit of a fatty and I need to do 
some basic calcs to adjust my weekly beer allowance.

Thanks in anticipation.

Mark E. in Melbourne


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Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 20:44:09 -0500
From: Jim Liddil <jliddil at vms.arizona.edu>
Subject: re:a/c and beer



> Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:40:53 -0600
> From: "Jack Schmidling" <arf at mc.net>
> Subject: arts and crafts and beer
> 
> From: jliddil at VMS.ARIZONA.EDU
> 
>> I'm considering replacing the base on my Maltmil(tm) with a piece of
> quarter-sawn oak and suing oak cabinet plywood for the hopper etc.  anyone
> done such a thing?
> 
> As a matter of fact it is a $400 option on the MM but it also includes a
> sterling silver crank.
> 
> However, I would not demean the project with plywood and quarter saw oak
> would be very boring and of no particular help in this application.

I have to disagree.  But I feel we are discussing an asthetic issue.
Quarter sawn oak has a much nicer grain pattern than does regular cut oak.
But that is my opinion as an owner of a fair amount of a/c style furniture.
Cherry is alos nice though.  There is nothing wrong with cabinet grade oak
plywood in this application. Again we are taking about viusal appeal vs.
actual functional usage.  Hell, might as well make it out of polypropylene.
no rot, rust etc.

> Actually, flat sawn wood is probably stronger so you could use half inch
> stock.  The value of quarter sawn wood is that it shrinks evenly in all
> directions but this is not an issue for a base.  I would make the hopper
> sides out of the same 1/2" stock and find someone with a plane to plane
> down the same stock to 1/4" for the panels. Sounds like a fun project but
> would not fit into the decor of the World's Greatest Brewery.

But what about the world's greatest a/c brewery. :-)  Again we are talking
about differences in style.  I'll go way out on limb and say my maltmill
(tm) is really a great product that even the movers could not break.  And
my EM (tm) still serves me well after years of use.  But I am talking about
something that I have a passion for.  Not everyone likes Stickley Mission
stuff.

And if I had a shop like Norm abrahms I'd paln down some oak.  Needless to
say i'll have to have a local shop do it for me.

> 
> I am currently working on a treasure chest for my grandaughter out of oak
> and cherry.  Living in a hardwood forest, I have become as obsessed with
> wood as I am with beer.  I start with an axe and end up with a project.
> 

But what style?  Again aesthetics are what we are talking about.  Oh and
I'm dead serious about a/c beer mugs or steins for those who care.


And I'm still lookng for endorsements so I can run for the northeast bjcp
rep.


Jim Liddil
North haven , CT


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