HOMEBREW Digest #3262 Wed 01 March 2000

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  re: The ULTIMATE truth! ("Stephen Alexander")
  RE: Trials & errors of a beginner (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Double Double Day (MVachow)
  Announcing South Shore Brewoff 2000 ("Reed,Randy")
  strange flavor (Marc Sedam)
  High gravity pitching rate (JSTanker)
  re step mashin in a boiler (Robin Griller)
  Thanks Again ("Bill Bunning")
  First Wort Hopping ("Bill Bunning")
  Water analysis (Scott Johnson)
  aerating meads (Aaron Perry)
  Horehound beer. ("Colin Marshall")
  Aluminum Pots ("Tim Green")
  Bill Pfeiffer ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  Lactic acid adjustment, sticky in CO (Dave Burley)
  Burnt liquor (OSULLS)
  Re: Enameled Kettle Handles (KMacneal)
  Re: Brew pot construction (KMacneal)
  question: chilling ales in the secondary ? ("Darrell Leavitt")
  Weizen ("A. J. deLange")
  Re: Fruit Beer Sludge ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  Re: lactic acid ("Martin Brungard")
  Enameled Kettle Handles (Jack Baty)
  temperature controllers (Jeremy Bergsman)
  Re: Enameled Kettle Handles (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Re-pitching (Jeff Renner)
  Re: enameled kettle handles ("Sieben, Richard")
  autolysis/musty (Dana Edgell)
  Yeast Growth ("Scholz, Richard")
  Easy Acid Wash Technique? (Kevin Basso)
  false bottoms and mash stirring (Joseph Gibbens)
  Brewtek CL-380 Saison yeast (Randy Ricchi)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:36:33 -0500 From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: re: The ULTIMATE truth! Rich Siebel asks ... >Please leave doc Pivo alone, I find him a fun part of the HBD. I don't >agree with him all the time, but I enjoy his comments just the same. I enjoy Pivo too, but I refuse to join the cult. If he wants to spout his odd views of fermentation they deserve to be examined, same as anyone else. - -- Dave Sapsis rambles about me for a bit ... >Seems to me what he does is offer a current understanding of >topics as they relate to threads that arise here. I never once heard him >say unqualified to "use high pitching rates". Why others are challenged by >his research synposes baffles me. [...] Nice to see that someone 'gets it'. It baffles me too Dave. To some I'm the poster boy for uptight brewing - they are 'reading into' instead of just reading. I never have suggested a dogmatic pitching rate nor much else dogmatic I am willing to support POVs by citing my experience or the more qualified experience that appears as journal experiments. That doesn't make it so - it just makes it true in some set of experiences. I don't even reject Pivo's statement, that you could produce a desirable effects WHILE underpitching. But I also have enough experience & reading to know that there is more to it than just underpitching and getting an improved beer. > I also dont think I ever heard him reject triangle tests >as a valid protocol for assessing outcomes. Steve, whacha think of >triangle tests? This is another Pivoly, Dave. I did a triangle test at my club meeting last month, and another among some friends last week and several others earlier in the year. It's a great way to get good comparative results with some real statistical meaning with a modest number of samples. - -- Scott Murman notes ... re: pitching rates, etc. >there are many beginning brewers who come >to the HBD for advice, and simply need help with the basics. I agree Scott, and one of the basics is that a underpitching is generally a formula for poor beer. If someone suggests otherwise lets examine the claim in the light of day. Not hidden among some mumbo-jumbo. >it would be nice >if the more advanced brewers would consider a dialogue of sharing >different techniques and reasonings, rather than simply critiques of >others, IMO. there's more than one way to swing a cat. Every such post turns into a fight here Scott. I got a lot of positive comments re my recent amino/fusels postings, but I also got a lot of 'anti' posts . Some made legitimate points, but some were motivated by personal animus. If you can figure out how to filter out the name-calling and only permit legitimate rebuttal I'd love to hear about it. - -- Speaking of the descent into name-calling ... Pivo writes ... >Little Stevie Wonder berates and distrusts my not presenting any >exact numbers.. Not numbers, and not distrust. I want a procedure to show the effect you see - not just a bunch of blather about 'less is better' - 'try it and see'. Pivo argues that I am guilty of following preconceptions and ignoring experience. In fact that is exactly what his followers do when they ignore the well and publicly executed experiments published in journals and adhere to vague suggestions from a self-styled guru. As it turns out, once the details are provided Pivo's claim vanishes. >[...] >Thou shall choose the yeast called Edme. Thou shallt pitch at the rate >of one half gram per litre. ONE HALF GRAM PER LITER !!! I don't know about Edme, but Lallemand suggests 0.512 grams per liter [60gm/bbl] to commercial brewers. And Rob Moline suggested the same rate here to HBers. I guess Pivo *has* divulged the "ULTIMATE truth". He pitches at textbook rates and thinks he is underpitching. >You do know Steve that you are absolutley NEVER going to do the above, [...] There is no hypothesis worth testing here. Why didn't you just post that you underpitch by 2% and like the result ? What a yawn. I really thought you were trying to say something interesting. >I have already surmised why you do not avail yourself of blind tastings. Apparently Pivo's converted up-the-kilt spy-cam is malfunctioning. I've performed two blind tastings in the past month - one at my local club. I've been doing blind 2-way tasting of wine for almost 15 years. I just love it when someone I've never met tells me what I have or haven't been doing; it immediately identifies the person as both arrogant and foolish, and precludes the need for further discussion. Steve Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 10:30:11 -0600 From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) Subject: RE: Trials & errors of a beginner >From: "Wayne or Cathy Love" <lovews at auracom.com> >...if some kind soul could take the time to >prepare a list of the most often used abbrev. and acronyms and what they stood >for.... Wayne, I only have one, but it's my favorite: ROFL (Rolling On Floor Laughing). I use it often when reading the HBD battles and petty wars some people get into over silly things. Ron Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu http://hbd.org/rlaborde Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 10:58:05 -0600 From: MVachow at newman.k12.la.us Subject: Double Double Day This prescription is for those of you who don't have time to belong to a club, who brew in fits and starts when the time pops up, or who cram brew sessions into the wee hours of the night or the dim hours of the morning. For those brewers who have participated in club brew days, page down. 1--Ask your boss for a day off. 2--Spend the two weeks before the day off preparing recipes, starters, assembling gear, etc. 3--Clear your day off schedule of all other obligations. 4--Get two or more brewers' gear and said brewers in same location for simultaneous batches. 5--Spend the day brewing, jawing, enjoying the weather, etc. This past Friday (76F and sunny), a brewing pal and I hooked up for a double double. We mashed in the first two batches at 0830 and put the final two batches in the carboys at 1900. Something mighty gratifying about seeing 72 pounds of malt transformed into 40 gallons of beer--edifying too, as little else in my day-to-day work yields such tangible and immediate rewards. Gives a guy a little perspective. Mike New Orleans, LA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:40:14 -0500 From: "Reed,Randy" <rreed at foxboro.com> Subject: Announcing South Shore Brewoff 2000 Everyone - South Shore Brewoff 2000 BJCP registered Southern Massachusetts April 8th, 2000 South Shore Brew Club is proud to present its fifth annual public competition providing high quality judging. Each year, the club strives to provide home brewers with constructive, objective feedback on their home made entries. We also hold the competition to allow more of our members to get involved with judging and stewarding. The BJCP judging level at this "boutique" competition has been very high in the past, with many national, certified, recognized, and even national ranked judges. In summary: Date: April 8th 2000 8AM doors open, 9 AM judging starts Beer, Cider and Mead accepted BJCP current style guidelines will be used. Please see BJCP Style Guidelines <http://www.mv.com/ipusers/slack/bjcp/style-index.html> Entry deadline is April 1st, 2000. No entries accepted after 4-1-00. Beers will be accepted between March 25 and April 1 during normal store hours. BJCP registered, points will be awarded Shipping and Drop-off locations: Please see web site below Cost $5 per entry, $4 each for 5 or more entries Please check the club web site for event updates and forms South Shore Brew Club Website: http://members.aol.com/brewclub/ <http://members.aol.com/brewclub/> Organizer: Francois Espourteille (francois at ici.net) Judge Coordinator: Steve Rose 508-821-4152 South Shore Brew Club - In Search of the Perfect Pint. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 13:37:01 -0500 From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> Subject: strange flavor Hey all: Last week I sampled 4oz of lagering CAP from my chest freezer, a.k.a. the "fermentation station". The flavor was unmistakably *soapy*, i.e. it tasted just like someone put a few dashes of Palmolive in my beer. The head was fine, and since I don't use soap on my equipment, I didn't think it was a surfactant. Fearing death of the batch, I let it be for another week. The next sample had absolutely no sense of this flavor--very strange. I know a soapy flavor can come from ferments which sit on the hot/cold break for a while, but is there any other source? I thought I might have oversparged the batch, but there was no astringency associated. Frankly, outside of the soapiness it tasted fine. From my readings I couldn't imagine a scenario where the flavor would disappear but it has. Anyone seen this? - Marc Sedam Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 19:03:14 EST From: JSTanker at aol.com Subject: High gravity pitching rate Sorry to ask a question that may lead to another long list of pitching rate discussions, but I a new to all of this and have not been able to find my answer in all the archives. If I am brewing a high gravity beer (ie. dopplebock) with an estimated original gravity of 1.080 + and I pitch a Wyeast 2308 stepped to 1 1/2 gallons of starter, will my final gravity be ok or do I need to supplement it with something like Champagne yeast ? Hope this is not too dumb of a question. Thanks, Jerry Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 19:35:32 -0500 From: Robin Griller <rgriller at chass.utoronto.ca> Subject: re step mashin in a boiler HI, re step mashing in an electric boiler; I've step mashed in my bruheat a couple of times without any untoward incidents. The key, I think, is that you have to raise the temperature very slowly. A step mash should be increased no more than 1-2C/minute. I normally go for 1 degree C/minute increase. To do this, you turn the control so the heat is just pulsing. If you turn the thermostat up so that it is on continuously it will burn the grain quickly. Hope this helps. Robin Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 18:42:42 -0600 From: "Bill Bunning" <bunz at pcola.gulf.net> Subject: Thanks Again Just wanted to post a thanks to the digest manager, Karl Lutzen, for honoring a promise made quite a while ago. Around the time Karl and Mark Stevens were collecting recipes for their collaboration on "More Homebrew Recipes", I submitted a recipe for an American Wheat. It had done well in competitions and I thought it would be a worthwhile addition to the book. They informed me that if the recipe was included, I would receive a complimentary copy. At the time I lived in Virginia. Since then, I have moved to Florida. I didn't think much of it until I ran into the book at a homebrew supply shop in Tacoma, Washington, a couple of weeks ago, and found my recipe in the book. I found Karl's e-mail through the HBD and fired off a request for the book since I had never received mine. Karl replied immediately and informed me a book was on the way. It is a special person who honors a promise made around 4 years ago. Thank you Karl. Bill Bunning Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 18:42:58 -0600 From: "Bill Bunning" <bunz at pcola.gulf.net> Subject: First Wort Hopping I know this has been covered here before many times but I was wondering how exactly do you "first wort hop"? Bill Bunning Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 21:27:00 -0800 From: Scott Johnson <JaScJohnson at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Water analysis I called and had my water company send me an analysis of my local water. This is the last six months of 1999 average. Here are some of the numbers: pH: 7.77 Total Solids (mg/L): 166 Alkalinity as CaCO3 (ppm): 72 Hardness as CaCO3 (ppm): 94 Sulfate (ppm): 30 Calcium (ppm): 26.5 Magnesium (ppm): 6.4 Sodium (ppm): 12.7 The report does not include carbonate or bicarbonate. What I would like to know: 1. Is there a way to find both carbonate and bicarbonate figures with the numbers above? 2. What styles of beer are good with the above water? 3. What is the overall quality of this water? Good, bad or a little of both. 4. Any information on the above water is appreciated. If you need any more figures I would be glad too send them to you. Scott Skyline Brewery Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 23:20:38 -0400 From: Aaron Perry <vspbcb at earthlink.net> Subject: aerating meads Hello all, I've made a few meads and never bothered to aerate before pitching. I heat the full volume of water with the honey and chill, rather than heating the honey with some water and adding to more cold water. So,to aerate or not to aerate? Any insight would be great. Thanks Aaron Perry Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 15:18:28 +1100 From: "Colin Marshall" <byoah at argay.com.au> Subject: Horehound beer. Could some kind soul please give me a recipe for horehound beer, and one for old-fashioned, non-alcoholic hop beer (bleeecch - it's not for me). I've searched the web, but without success. Many thanks in advance . Colin Marshall. (From the Land of Oz, where mainstream beer is a lot like making love in a boat.) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 23:33:40 -0500 From: "Tim Green" <timothygreen at earthlink.net> Subject: Aluminum Pots Wayne Love writes: >I need to purchase a new stock pot. Has anybody had any problems using >aluminum instead of stainless steel? For about half the cost I can buy >a much thicker and sturdier aluminum one. You will see over and over on the web and from HB shops who have a vested interest in selling Polarware SS pots that you should never use aluminum pots. IMHO that is just not true. Although aluminum is softer that stainless and you can't use caustic cleaners on it. There is just no proof anywhere that I have been able to find, on the net or off, that indicates that using an aluminum pot to boil liquids in a health hazard or adds odd flavors to anything being cooked in them. I believe that much of this came from a piece of poorly done research where they tried to link aluminum from cooking pots to Alzimiers Disease. No apparent actual fact in the study. I have been using aluminum pots to brew in since I started brewing with no problems. Tim Green Wine is Great, Beer is Good, Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 00:56:51 -0500 From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <spencer at umich.edu> Subject: Bill Pfeiffer If I had to pick a single moment by which to remember Bill Pfeiffer, it would be my first judging experience. In early 1992, I believe it was (might have been '93), the AABG hosted the AHA club-only "Bock is Best" competition. I had never formally judged beer before, but I was encouraged to participate anyway. To compensate for my inexperience, I was paired with "our National judge," Bill Pfeiffer. Bill did not try to lecture me. He led me through the judging, guiding gently without ever pushing his opinion. I learned a lot about judging beer from him that day, but perhaps more importantly, I learned to trust my senses and my impressions. Over the years since, I continued to learn from Bill, about brewing, judging, and just life. And now he's teaching me that it's possible to accept the end, to welcome it, and to go out of this world in dignity, with eyes wide open. Damn it! I'll sure miss that guy. =Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 07:26:43 -0500 From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Lactic acid adjustment, sticky in CO Brewsters: Lee Primesberger and Paul Niebergall are discussing lactic acid addition techniques to adjust the brewing liquor before mashing. I am sure AJ will comment more eloquently than I on this, BUT adding lactic acid to your water before mashing to get to a pH of 6-7 will IN NO WAY guarantee that your mash pH will be correct. Why? Because the reason your pH is above 7 has a number of potential causes, which may be buffers, as are the contents of the mash. The proper way to adjust the pH of the mash is AFTER you heat it up ( to make sure all the pH reducing calcium/ phosphorous reactions are completed). Be sure to cool your sample to RT and adjust the wort pH with lactic acid to 5.5 to 5.8 - measured at room temperature. This will guarantee the desired pH of 5.2 to 5.4 at mash temperatures. You may be surprised to find you will need no adjustment, despite the pH of the tap water. More important is to adjust the pH of the <sparging> water to a pH of below 5.8 with lactic acid to reduce the extraction of phenols and the like from the malt husks. - ------------------------------- To "Sticky in Colorado" : As long as you use a carboy for your primary you will run this risk of splooge on the ceiling. I have never had such a problem since I started using an "open" fermenter made from a plastic garbage can and a plastic sheet held in place with a rubber band. Dropping one of these in the bathroom would be just as messy, perhaps, as a carboy, but no glass shards would be produced. Try Spic and Span, TSP may lift the paint. Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 12:29:21 +0000 From: OSULLS at uk.ibm.com Subject: Burnt liquor Thanks for the replies. I had sat down and posted my entry in HBD while I was waiting for my second batch(after dumping the first!!) to steep, so I was still a bit dazed and confused after the burnt liquor trauma! Having had two days to consider things, I think the problem may have had nothing to do with protein rests or similar, but was in fact purely mechanical. I use a brew bag with a mesh bottom to retrieve the spent grain, the batch of malted grain that burnt has come from a 56lb sack I had come towards the particles that were small enough to get through the mesh, meaning that there was more than normal around the element. Coupled with the fact that I was using a larger that normal amount of grain, making the grain bag sag lower, and hence less free space under the bag to move around.....result burnt element. Fixes. 1. Mix the grain in your 56lb bag as you use it to avoid settling. 2. Strap your sack higher (ooer missus!) 3. Trust your intuition and look for the simple answer first PS Dave Burnley, yes I live n Swansea but nothing to do with Swansea University, cheers Sean Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 07:34:00 EST From: KMacneal at aol.com Subject: Re: Enameled Kettle Handles In a message dated 2/29/2000 12:17:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, homebrew-request@hbd.org writes: << I boil in an 33 quart enamel canning kettle (probably the standard kettle of this type obtainable at hardware stores, etc.). I lift this kettle by the handles (carry it from stove to counter) when containing about 6 gallons of boiling hot wort. Has anyone experienced trouble with the handles coming off? This would be severe (I have taken to wearing rubber boots when carrying the kettle but that would not protect the house/floor from the hot sticky wort). >> I've been brewing in one for over 5 years. Handles are still on. Some of the enamel is flaking off on the inside near the handles indicating some flexing may be going on. I am retiring it because it has been dropped a few too many times (while empty -- sliding off the dish rack & such) and there are a few dents & chips. Keith MacNeal Worcester, MA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 07:42:42 EST From: KMacneal at aol.com Subject: Re: Brew pot construction In a message dated 2/29/2000 12:17:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, homebrew-request@hbd.org writes: << >5) I need to purchase a new stock pot. Has anybody had any problems using >aluminum instead of stainless steel? For about half the cost I can buy a much >thicker and sturdier aluminum one. >> Another inexpensive option to stainless steel pots are enamel on steel pots. The large ones (33 qt. or so) are sometimes sold as seafood pots. Keith MacNeal Worcester, MA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 08:35:34 -0500 From: "Darrell Leavitt" <Darrell_Leavitt at sln.esc.edu> Subject: question: chilling ales in the secondary ? In a back room that I use for lagers, I have several containers full of chilled water. Well, the other day I decided to place a Burton Ale into 50F water thinking that this might help to clarify the final product....but I woke up this morning thinking that I had made a mistake; ie, perhaps there might not be enough yeast left for bottling! The ale had been in secondary for just over 1 week....Should I have kept it around 60F to keep some of the yeasies around ? Worried. ..Darrell Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 13:57:14 +0000 From: "A. J. deLange" <ajdel at mindspring.com> Subject: Weizen For George and Jim: I seem to recall that a good Bruchhefe is preferred for bottle conditioning of Weizens because, after it has done its work, it goes to the bottom of the bottle and sticks firmly there thus giving the drinker the option of pouring his beer clear or "mit Hefe tru:ben". * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * For Steve: I know one guy who refers to Budweiser as "hangover in a can", an asessment with which I essentially agree. If I go to an ordinary bar with normal people and have two 10 Oz Bud's I feel worse the next morning than after three pints of one of my own creations even though the latter is more alcoholic. I've always blamed this on the noticeable levels of acetaldehyde in Bud (gives it that apple-like aroma) which is, after all, the stuff of hangovers, but I rather doubt that the small amount that produces the flavor is significant relative to the amount oxidized from alcohol during metabolism. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * For Lee and Paul: The amount of lactic acid required to bring water to an appropriate pH is determined by the water's alkalinity. Highly alkaline water (found in the midwest and some parts of the west) will require more acid than the relatively less carbonate waters of the coasts. There is no optimum pH for water treatment in the sense that there is for the mash. Each milliequivalent of acid you add to the water before mashing is one milliequivalent that does not have to be supplied by malt phosphate/calcium reaction or from dark malt organic acids. There are usually better ways to control mash pH than treatment with acid such as decarbonating the water (boiling, lime treatment) or adjusting the dark malt percentage of the grist. The problem with acid addition is that you have the flavor effects of the acid anion to deal with. Lactic can be quite tasty in some styles (stouts, wits, Berliner Weisse etc.) but is not so good in others. Phosphoric is often called "flavor neutral", hydrochloric can actually add to the sense of mouthfeel (chloride ion) and sulfuric can be used where augmentation of hops impression is desired (some ales). You can find details on how to estimate the amount of each of several types of acid required to establish a particular water pH given a particular alkalinity and starting pH at http://brewery.org/brewery/library/AcidifWaterAJD0497.html Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 09:30:43 -0500 From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com> Subject: Re: Fruit Beer Sludge On Mon, 28 Feb 2000 Jeremy J. Arntz wrote about Fruit Beer Sludge: >After about 5 days of fermentation activity slowed in the airlock of >my batch of apple ale. So, I opened the lid to check the S.G. of my >brew when I was stunned to see this brownish-green sludge had >grown/collected on top of the apples. J, Last year I I tried my hand at fruit beers and brewed a cherry stout and a cherry ale. Both of these batches had a good 7 or 8 pounds of sour cherries added to the secondary and both contained brown sludge at the end of the ferment. I assume it is natural decomposition of the cherries as both beers were a smash after aging for a couple of months. BTW, to avoid racking problems I kept the fruit in a nylon mesh bag in the fermenter. It works wonders by keeping the brown sludge, pits and skin inside the bag. . I now plan on brewing a "cherry something" every season. Glen Pannicke alehouse.homepage.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 10:36:33 EST From: "Martin Brungard" <mabrungard at hotmail.com> Subject: Re: lactic acid I can second the information presented by Paul recently regarding the use of Lactic Acid for pH adjustments. I recently did a similar study of Lactic Acid additions vs. pH which I wrote up for my homebrew club's newsletter. This info was created using City of Tallahassee tap water which is actually a pretty good brewing water, with just a little too much carbonate in it for it to be a perfect starting point for most water styles. The starting pH is about 7.9 units. I agree that a syringe is a good thing to measure the acid additions with, but I use a calibrated medicine dropper for my additions. I found that 6 drops per gallon brings the water to about 7.0 pH, 1/8 tsp per gallon gets it to about 6.5 pH, and 3/16 tsp per gallon brings it to about 5.7 pH. I'm recalling these results off the top of my head since I don't have the data in front of me as I write this, so this might be a little off, but its close. By the way, I found that 1/4 tsp was 36 drops with my dropper, your results may vary. Paul's mention of his water supply's very high pH is alarming. The legal limits for pH in a drinking water supply are 6.5 to 8.5 pH units. Paul, I would either question the pH meter you are using or I would raise an alarm with your water provider. Hopefully a smart guy like yourself is using pH buffer solutions to check and calibrate your meter, and if that is the case then I would alert your water supplier that you are measuring excessive pH in their system. They have to correct it ASAP under the requirements of the Clear Water Act. Since I mentioned the newsletter article above, it would be a real service to your fellow brewclub members if a few of the beergeek types (like myself) in each club would do experiments on your local tap water(s) to establish what chemical additions are appropriate for various brewing waters styles. You can then publish it in your newsletter or website for all your members to use. All you need to do is contact your water utility for the existing water quality data. I used ProMash software to come up with the mineral additions or distilled water dilutions for amending City of Tallahassee water into waters like Burton-on-Trent, Ideal Pale Ale, Ideal Stout, Ideal Lager, etc. I then converted those gram weights to level teaspoon measures since most people don't have a gram scale but can cheaply purchase measuring spoons. For the pH experiment, I used a quart of water and did the measurements after each drop of 88 percent Lactic Acid. That gave me data points at 4 drops per gallon. I was using a pH meter so it was no big deal to do all those measurements. If you are going to do the study with pH papers, I would suggest doing the test at 2 drops per quart or you are going to go through a bunch of pH papers. I drew the graph of pH vs drops per gallon with the resulting data to decipher the appropriate acid addition rates for various pH points. I provided my clubmates with acid addition rates to hit the following points: a 7.0 pH (the least any brewer should do to their water), a low 6 pH (probably a good starting point for most mashing water), and a 5.7 pH (good for sparge water). I just wrote a short 2 page article for my club newsletter with the information I mentioned above. I would be glad to provide it to any interested folks for their use as a starting point for their club's article. Drop me a note if you want it. Martin Brungard Tallahassee, FL "Meandering to a different drummer" ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 09:50:25 -0600 From: Jack Baty <jack at wubios.wustl.edu> Subject: Enameled Kettle Handles >From: "Dick & Cecilia Kuzara" <rkuzara at wyoming.com> > >I boil in an 33 quart enamel canning kettle (probably the standard kettle of >this type obtainable at hardware stores, etc.). I lift this kettle by the >handles (carry it from stove to counter) when containing about 6 gallons of >boiling hot wort. Has anyone experienced trouble with the handles coming >off? It happened to me not long after I started using the pot. I could feel the handle coming off so I quickly set the pot on the floor and didn't spill anything. The manufacturer sent me a replacement and I only lift it by the rim unless it is empty. It's tough on the fingers but not as tough as a scalding. Jack Baty St. Louis MO Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 08:50:27 -0800 From: Jeremy Bergsman <jeremybb at stanford.edu> Subject: temperature controllers I received a catalog in the mail yesterday which offers what seems to be a good deal in temp controllers that could be used for a refrigerator or even possibly a RIMS. The cheapest is $19.95, goes from 30-110F, is waterproof, and will switch "16FLA at 120V or 8FLA at 240V". I don't know what FLA means but assuming it's amps this sounds good. They all have analog dial adjustment with no temp readout and are made by "Durostat". The catalog is TekSupply, 800-835-7877, http://www.TekSupply.com. Standard disclaimer applies, including I've never done business with them. - -- Jeremy Bergsman jeremybb at stanford.edu http://www.stanford.edu/~jeremybb Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 10:31:41 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: Enameled Kettle Handles >"Dick Kuzara" <rkuzara at wyoming.com> writes: > >I boil in an 33 quart enamel canning kettle<snip> >I lift this kettle by the >handles (carry it from stove to counter) when containing about 6 gallons of >boiling hot wort. Has anyone experienced trouble with the handles coming >off? I used one of these for probably 15 years before going to aluminum 10 gallon pots and never had a problem beyond a strained back. Toward the carrying it for the same fear as you express. I think they'd have to be designed to hold a kettle of liquid since that's clearly their intended purpose. Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 12:09:29 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: Re-pitching >"John Todd Larson" <larson at amazon.com> asks about re-pitching > >I left >about 1/2" of beer covering the thin layer of yeast, put on an air lock and >put the whole carboy in the fridge. What should I do to use this yeast next >weekend? First I'd feed the yeast now with a quart or so of wort. You could make some up from extract if you didn't can some from a previous brew as I do (no botulism warnings, please). You could do it right in the carboy where there's plenty of oxygen for growth. Then dump this into a sanitized plastic soda bottle or big jar or a gallon jug depending on how much volume you have (use a big funnel. It should ferment out in a day or two, allowing you to refrigerate it and decant the liquid and pitch sedimented yeast. I figure about 1/2 oz. yeast paste per gallon for ales, double that for lagers. You can keep the extra yeast for a few weeks in the fridge, or share it with other brewers. We often have yeast passing around members of AABG. Just be sure to practice safe yeast. Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 11:31:25 -0600 From: "Sieben, Richard" <SIER1 at Aerial1.com> Subject: Re: enameled kettle handles I would not carry ANY pot of boiling liquid ANYWHERE! It's just too dangerous (ok a 1 or 2 gallon pot may be ok as it is easy to handle). It just isn't worth the risk of a burn injury, PLEASE DON'T DO THIS ANYMORE!!! I don't know how you are chilling your beer, but you can get an immersion chiller cheaply enough, or build one for about $20 and put hoses on it that are long enough to reach your kitchen sink. I really think those pot handles are only good for moving an empty pot around, not a full pot. It would be an incredibly bad thing if you bumped the pot on something and are immersed in boiling wort and you will likely lose all of the skin. The rule of thumb in burn injuries is if your age plus the percentage of skin burns obtained is equal to or over 100, you will not live. (not that any burn is fun, it is the most slowly healing injury you can get and hurts all the while it heals.) Why am I ranting? I used to be a firefighter and the thought of anyone getting a burn actually is painful to me. So one last time...DON'T CARRY BOILING LIQUIDS ANYWHERE!!! Rich Sieben Island Lake, IL (I have seen people in the process of burning and the screams haunt me still) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 10:12:53 -0700 From: Dana Edgell <EdgeAle at cs.com> Subject: autolysis/musty Dave Burley sez: >Wayne Love asks about that "musty" >taste he gets when he reuses a >yeast cake from a previous brew and >about an Aluminum vs SS kettle. > >Wayne, it is possible that taste you >are experiencing is an infection or >possibly the beginning of yeast >autolysis if you are keeping the >yeast around at room temperature >in beer, although I would not >descibe either as musty. I just kegged a beer last night that had a musty taste that wasn't there when I last tasted it. I was wondering if it was yeast bite as I wasn't able to keg the beer when I wanted to and it sat on the yeast for much longer than planned. However, I seem to recall yeast bite descibed as "meaty" or "rubbery" but this is nothing like that. Has anyone else encountered a musty taste from yeast autolysis? If it is yeast bite, is there anything that can be done to reduce it the flavor? (cold conditioning etc?) Thanks Dana - -------------------------------------------------------------- Dana Edgell mailto:EdgeAle at cs.com Edge Ale Brewery http://ourworld.cs.com/EdgeAle San Diego Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 14:36:49 -0500 From: "Scholz, Richard" <RScholz at refco.com> Subject: Yeast Growth Stephen Alexander <mailto:steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> writes in HBD 3261 in response to Roger A 's >> Well, if we have 75% new growth, then the 25% reproduced only three times its original biomass, however if we have 99% new growth, the result is about 100X increase in biomass, to me that is significant yeast growth and would probably have a perceptible impact on beer character. >> > Your argument that the underpitched yeast must multiply 99 times versus 3 is correct but irrelevant. I think you must admit that there is no conceivable physical mechanism by which creation of flavor chemicals is related to the amount of multiplication. Do you really believe that single cell that multiplies ninety-nine-fold somehow creates much more of a flavor impact than a trillion cells that 'only' double in count ? <snip> Underpitching doesn't damage beer flavor primarily because the amount of yeast growth is greater, but because the growth conditions differ, particularly toward the end of fermentation. When the yeast run into nutritional roadblocks it causes metabolic changes that can result in relatively large amounts of flavor active by-products. > Now for Me: So Steve, You're saying that the 9-10 generations of yeast run into nutritional deficiencies due to the need of these growth constituents, but not just because they are the late generations. The fermentation flavor by-products are due to lack of nutrients not the dividing of the available growth constituents? Yes, if we continually add these things we get great yeast growth and bad flavors for other reasons, but in "green" beer we are limited by the original concentrations and too many generations of yeast will deplete the available nutrients and lead to these fermentation flavor by-products. Seem to me just about the same result. I don't think Roger A. was disputing the mechanism, ( were you Roger?) just the implications that many generations finally producing these flavor components from the depletion of available resources. Just trying to understand the whole process. - --- Richard L Scholz. Brooklyn, NY Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 15:42:28 -0500 From: Kevin Basso <KevinB at AWSPERRY.COM> Subject: Easy Acid Wash Technique? I typically reuse yeast from a previous batch and I have been able to keep most yeast going strong for many batches. However after a while or perhaps after an unusual fruit beer, grain bill or hopping content I usually have to discard a slow our soured yeast into my happy septic tank. I currently have a couple of yeasts that I like to run with but I would like to keep them in optimal condition. I can usually store them in a sterile capped bottle in between usage when I switch from one to another. Sometimes I may split a batch and use two different ones. I read the post by Dave Burley with the brief description that when washing the "yeast cake that you give it a wash with 1% tartaric acid, three rinses with boiled cooled water". What is the easiest way to Acid wash yeast at home? How exactly can I keep my yeast in peak condition... Kevin Islip Terrace, NY Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 19:58:28 -0600 From: Joseph Gibbens <jgibbens at umr.edu> Subject: false bottoms and mash stirring Hello, Thanks for all the replies on where I can find false bottoms. Can anyone tell me what the mash flow pattern should be for a HERMS? Will there be any problems with having it flow up the center and down the sides? Joe Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 21:08:03 -0500 From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at ccisd.k12.mi.us> Subject: Brewtek CL-380 Saison yeast I have a saison in secondary that started at 1.062 and fermented fairly quickly to 1.021, then stopped. It's very clear now, after 2 wks in secondary, and the gravity hasn't budged. I would have expected it to drop to 1.015 or 16. The grist was roughly 70% vienna malt, and the balance pils malt. Mashed at mid 140's for 15 min, then 158 until conversion. I'm wondering if this yeast acts like a lot of Wit yeasts; Quick start, then long, slow ferment to completion. Secondary ambient temp is mid 60's. I was thinking of bottling it right now with no priming sugar, thinking it would slowly ferment out and carbonate the beer, but I'm concerned about how large a drop in gravity I might get. Anyone have any experience with this yeast? TIA. Return to table of contents
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