HOMEBREW Digest #3269 Sun 12 March 2000

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Sorry... (Pat Babcock)
  Wyeast response to suggested pitching practices (Chris Cooper)
  proper blowoff question (Dick Dunn)
  yeast observations and homophobia (patrick finerty)
  HERMS Manifold Bypass ("Dan Schultz")
  Easier bottling technique? (Paul Shick)
  Paragraphs and Pivos (Brian Lundeen)
  Thanks to all; Re: ceiling splooge ("Murray, Eric")
  What is underpitching? (Bret Morrow)
  Adding Fruit Squeezings ??? (Smith Asylum)
  Too much Oxygen (Ant Hayes)
  rest or not.... (darrell.leavitt)
  re: atlanta beer ("Hull, Ted")
  ProMash and First Wort Hoppings (Jeffrey Donovan)
  First All-Grain Batch (Dryw Blanchard)
  seeds (Marc Sedam)
  High FG, mead (Dave Burley)
  "Dummy" brew (Nathan Kanous)
  Re: Real Ale Festival (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Recipe formulation help (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Question re: Higher than anticipated FG/WLP800 Pilsner-Lager (Jeff Renner)
  Duvel (Nathan Kanous)
  Belgian beers ("Jens P. Maudal")
  re: recipe formulation help (Tidmarsh Major)
  bleach, FWH, identity crisis ("Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies")
  Refreshing... (Some Guy)
  re: High finishing gravity (Lou.Heavner)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 17:46:40 -0500 From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org> Subject: Sorry... Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... Been a pretty sporadic week! Server crashed Sunday at reboot, back up Monday. Kaboom! Back down again Thursday and finally back up. Yow! Our apologies for any inconvenience/withdrawal symptoms/depression/coma experienced by anyone. No hardware failures this time - one network oops followed by a janitor oops - both encumbered by my inability to get over to the server to fix things during O&E's normal hours of operation. No permanent damage in either case. And a big thanks to Greg Day, Director of IT for Observer & Eccentric Newspapers. Not only does he host our servers gratis, but he broke away from his home activities Saturday afternoon to let me in to fix up the server! - See ya! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at hbd.org Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock/ "Just a cyber-shadow of his former brewing self..." Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 11:26:47 -0500 (EST) From: Chris Cooper <ccooper at a2607cc.msr.hp.com> Subject: Wyeast response to suggested pitching practices Greetings All! A couple of weeks back I posted the following request to the HBD: ~As Wyeast is a major supplier to the Home Brew market place I wonder if ~they (Wyeast Lab's) would supply this forum with the following information: ~ # Your thoughts on the ideal starter size for a pseudo standard ~ size 5-gal(US) batch of Ale. ~ # Your thoughts on the ideal starter size for a pseudo standard ~ size 5-gal(US) batch of Lager (Pils). ~ # Your suggestion on techniques for stepping up a 50(ml) Smack-Pack ~ to the appropriate starter volume (using standard Home Brew supplies ~ , i.e. DME, Growler Jugs, 22oz bottles, yeast nutrients, etc.). ~ # Any other recomendations or "recipes for success" with regards to ~ proper handling and useage of your product in the Home Brewery. The following reply was sent to me by David Logsdon of Wyeast, with his permission to submit it to this forum: >Thank you for the opportunity to address some of the questions you >have regarding yeast propagation and yeast handling. Much has transpired >in the 15 years we have been producing yeast for homebrewers. > >Initial yeast packages of yeast we produced then, had a target cell >count of dry yeast which was the only thing available to homebrewers >at that time. Since then our cell counts have been increased significantly. > >To obtain an ideal pitching rate, the viability of the yeast, the >oringinal gravity of the wort and the dissolved oxygen are all variables >which need to be addressed. There are many ways to achieve the desired >results, the following scenarios are suggestions. > >For making 5 gallons of ale, 1.040 - 1.050 original gravity, add 50 mls of >active yeast to a 500 ml starter solution of dry malt extract made up to an >original gravity of 1.040, boiled, cooled to 75 F and aerated. Continue >frequent agitation to supply as much O2 as possible. Typically within 24 >hours, when the starter is in high kerausen it could be transferred to 5 >gallons of wort or continued to propagate by adding to 1500 ml of >additional malt extract as prepared above, for higher gravity wort or >higher pitching rates. It would be ready to transfer to 20 liters in 24 hours. > >50 mls of lager yeast can be started in a smaller volume (200 mls) for the >first 24 hours at 75 F. Then stepped down to 65 F for 24 hours in 1 liter >of malt extract wort s.g. 1.040, then transferred to 2 liters of wort at >55 F for 24-48 hours prior to pitching into 20 liters. > >Key points are : Producing sterile wort with aseptic handling. Many people >feel that wort is unstabile and that contaminants will grow if not >protected by the yeast. This is generally untrue. If contaminat organisms >are present in the wort, they will grow along with the yeast. Adequately >boiled and cooled wort should remain free of growth for 72 hours if left >unpitched. That is a commercial brewery standard. Provide adequate >aeration (dissolved oxygen), even adding more O2 the day after brewing. > >Pitching on high kerausen. >It is a general rule to make increases or transfers in 5 to 10 fold >increments. Making the transfer on high kerausen with good aeration has a >greater impact than any other aspect of propagation. That is why the many >people who do not make starters, but pitch fresh yeast from an activated >package into well aerated sterile (stable) wort, can make good beer too. >Like most things in life, the more one puts into it the more they get out >of it. I also sent a follow-up request to clarify one point, should the entire starter be pitched or should the starter "beer" be decanted, and recieved the following reply: >Regarding whether to decant the starter, typically if the starter is in >High kerausen, decanting the liquid may be difficult, particularly for some >strains, without pouring away lots of yeast. Some strains may be ok if they >are flocced out by nature or if terminal gravity is reached and they are >settled. I would like to thank David Logsdon for taking the time to answer my request and follow up by reissuing the challenge to any other yeast suppliers to the homebrew market which monitor this forum to also reply. Chris Cooper, Pine Haven Brewing (aka. Debbi's Kitchen) {at least in winter!} Commerce, Michigan Member, Ann Arbor Brewer's Guild (Approximately 25 miles from 0.0 Renerian) Return to table of contents
Date: 8 Mar 00 09:37:03 MST (Wed) From: rcd at raven.talisman.com (Dick Dunn) Subject: proper blowoff question Has anyone experienced a blowoff-blowout and "ceiling splooge" when using a *proper* carboy/blowoff setup? By "proper" I mean a blowoff tube which just fits inside the neck of a carboy--nominally 1.25" OD, 1" ID. I suppose you could still clog a tube that large, but I've never heard of it happening, so I'm curious about the experiences of the collective. _ _ _ _ _ It is not surprising that the small-diameter "blowoff" as suggested in T[N]CJOHB and other places doesn't work. In fact, what's surprising is that such a dumb idea hasn't been laid to rest in the 15+ years that it's been floating around and encouraging newbies to decorate their ceilings in shades of taupe. The difference between the 3/8" OD tubing suggested in TNCJOHB and the 1.25" OD tubing for a real blowoff is a factor of 16 in cross-section...that's a qualitative difference. Most folks don't even use tubing as small as 3/8" OD for racking!...let alone for a blowoff. - --- Dick Dunn rcd at talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA ...Simpler is better. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 12:01:32 -0500 (EST) From: patrick finerty <zinc at zifi.psf.sickkids.on.ca> Subject: yeast observations and homophobia howdy, wow, who would think i could talk about both things in one post? unfortunately they're not related.... i recently brewed a 10 gal batch of porter. lately i've been pitching two different strains for the same batch (haven't tried different quantities or temps yet). this last batch showed the biggest variation i've observed. here are the details: yeast 1: Yeast Labs Irish Ale Yeast (IA) yeast 1: Yeast cultured from a bottle of Red Hook Hefeweizen (RH) starter cultures of both were prepared in the lab in a similar manner. i'm fairly certain i pitched the same quantity of each strain but did nothing to verify this (this is a biochem lab w/o a high power microscope or hemocytometer). after spinning down the 1 L cultures in a centrifuge there was one odd thing; while the RH yeast pelleted completely at the low RPMs i used, the IA yeast was still cloudy. in general, yeast definitely pellet more easily than bacteria (they're much larger) and the cloudiness of the IA starter after spinning had me concerned. however, it smelled fine and the resulting beer does not taste contaminated and for that matter, different yeast strains behave differently so this may mean nothing (diff floculation props, size, etc). both batches ended at the same gravity but the IA yeast batch needed more time and didn't finish until part way through the secondary. i also aerated it more while in the primary after the fermentation appeared to be stuck. THE PUNCH LINE is that the beer prepared using the IA yeast tastes watery and thin compared to the beer prepared with the RH yeast which has great mouthfeel and is really quite good. i'm serving this at my St. Patrick's day party on the 17th. drop me a line if you're in Toronto... here's the recipe and gravity details if that matters to you: Ingredients for 10 gal: 7.3 kg (16.0 lb) pale two row 1.8 kg (4.0 lb) Munich Malt 450 g (1.0 lb) English Crystal 340 g (.75 lb) Chocolate Malt 181 g (.4 lb) Black Patent Malt 600 ml Canadien Clover Honey 77 g Columbus Leaf Hops (15.3% aa) 84 g Cascade Leaf Hops (1/2 for dry hop, 5.2% aa) Irish Moss ( at 20 min) Redhook or Irish ale yeast Procedure: Mash: 153 F for 80 min. Sparge: 170 F Boil: 90 min Boil additions: 0 min: 21 g Columbus Hops 30 min: 600 ml honey (stir like crazy!) 30 min: 28 g Columbus Hops 60 min: 28 g Columbus Hops 70 min: irish moss 90 min: 42 g Cascade Hops ferment at ~64-68 F gravity readings: prior to boil: 1.0 (hot reading) after chilling: 1.064-1.065 Sun RH=1.051=IA Mon RH=1.031=IA Wed RH=1.020, IA=1.024 Sun RH=1.012, IA=1.019 (stirred IA to oxygenate) Wed RH=1.011, IA=1.013 (racked to secondary) final RH=1.012=IA ========= irrelevant opinions regarding Fred's bar experiences... On March 7, 2000, fred_garvin at fan.com wrote: > Am I a homophobe? yes. however, i don't think it's wrong to be uncomfortable in the situations you described. it's just that there really is no reason for you to be uncomfortable. for instance, are you the type of person who thinks that when a woman in a bar has a conversation with you this means she also wants to jump into bed with you? probably that's not the case. so, why should you think that's the case for men you meet? -patrick in toronto - -- "There is only one aim in life and that is to live it." Karl Shapiro,(1959) from an essay on Henry Miller's Tropic of Cancer finger pfinerty at nyx10.nyx.net for PGP key http://abragam.med.utoronto.ca/~zinc Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 09:33:04 -0800 From: "Dan Schultz" <dschultz at primenet.com> Subject: HERMS Manifold Bypass I am in the final phase of uprgrading my bewing system to a HERMS (aka HE-Man RIMS) system. My current prognostication (sp?) is whether I should add a 3-way valve in order to be able to bypass the heat exchange manifold in the liquor tank? I am trying to think of when I would want to bypass the HE-Man. The two that come to mind are when just recirculating or when trying to lower the temp slightly using the external plumbing as a natural radiator (if I don't insulate it). Any thoughts? Burp, -Dan Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 14:32:15 -0500 (EST) From: Paul Shick <SHICK at JCVAXA.jcu.edu> Subject: Easier bottling technique? Hello all, I thought that the collective might like a nice practical post, to balance all of the theoretical discussion on yeast metabolism and pitching rates. (Which I enjoy, by the way, when it remains friendly.) I've been thinking a lot about the mechanics of bottling, in response to two consecutive 10 gallon batches where the kegged halves were quite good, but the bottled halves had serious infections. My approach to bottling, up until now, has involved soaking a 6 gallon "bottling bucket" (plastic bucket with drum tap) in bleach water for a day or two, soaking/rinsing the bottles and putting them on a sanitized bottle rack, draining/rinsing the bottling bucket, purging it with CO2, adding primings (boiled in microwave with water,) then siphoning from the carboy to the bottling bucket, attaching a brass philler (sanitized in bleach or iodophor) and filling/capping. I'm certain that the siphon tube and bottles have been okay, so that the likely culprit has been the bucket and/or the tap and its rubber gaskets. How anything survives a 2 day soak in bleach water is beyond me, but the infections have happened (although not in all batches.... I had two bad batches followed by a good one, with the same procedures and same equipment. Such are the trials of lager brewing, where you wait quite a while to sample.) I'm getting increasingly distrustful of chemical sanitizing these days, prefering heat whenever possible, so that I'm doing more and more fermenting in stainless steel and pyrex. I decided to use this approach to bottling, too. George DePiro wrote awhile back about bottling from the keg (not counter-pressure bottling, but rather using primings.) I decided to try a variant on this which worked amazingly smoothly a few days ago. I kegged 10 gallons of German Pilsner, force carbonating one keg, while leaving the other with just its residual carbonation. Pushing a short length of 3/8 inch tube over a picnic faucet attached to the out fitting of the keg gave me a nice fitting to attach my philler to. Setting the CO2 pressure at 5-8psi yielded a very smooth flow (through my filler, one of the narrower types. You might need a lower pressure.) I filled as many bottles as I needed (to about 3/4 inch from the rim) and then added two of Domenick Venezia's PrimeTabs to each bottle. After a minute or so, each bottle had foamed up almost to the rim, at which point I capped. The whole process was very easy, especially compared to my previous bottling regime. My hope is that the various factors involved have conspired to yield about 2.5 volumes of CO2 in the bottles. My quick calculations show that there should be about 1.3 volumes in the beer at 45F, and that each PrimeTab should add about .7 volumes. I guessed at losing about .2-.3 volumes in the filling/priming process. We'll see in a few weeks how close these are to reasonable Pilsner carbonation levels. Since I can use heat to sanitize almost everthing involved (except a small bit of tubing and the picnic faucet,) I'm much more confident that I'm avoiding infection. My keg sanitation lately uses 170-180F water with PBW for a 20 minute soak, forced out through the out fitting and hose, followed by iodophor soaking, so there shouldn't be any bugs (nor any crud for them to grow in.) I also soaked the brass philler in hot PBW, then iodophor, so another possible hiding place should be gone. The thing that makes all this doable, of course, is the PrimeTab product: it makes individual bottle priming reliable and sanitary. Others have been priming individual bottles by a variety of methods, but they generally don't seem as easy or safe. By the way, George DePiro's approach involved priming the entire keg of beer, then dispensing into the bottles more or less as above. One advantage of my approach is that you can put aside enough bottles for competitions or friends, then leave the remainder in the keg to force carbonate. Hmmm, this was supposed to be a short post. Sorry to be so windy. Paul Shick Basement brewing in Cleveland Hts OH Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 13:59:06 -0600 From: Brian Lundeen <blundeen at post.rrc.mb.ca> Subject: Paragraphs and Pivos > Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 04:27:42 -0500 > From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu> > Subject: Paragraphs > > Hi. > > Some of you seem to have forgotten about paragraphs. You know -- a > small unit of writing, containing several sentences, which introduces > an idea, discusses it briefly, and then ties it up. Well said, and I would just like to add, I wish Mr Burley would format to more than 4 or 5 words per line. You have some interesting comments, Dave, but sometimes I will just skip over them because it is too hard on my eyes. Were you a newspaper columnist in a previous life? ;-) > Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 13:17:05 +0100 > From: "Dr. Pivo" <dp at pivo.w.se> > Subject: the ultimate truth(s) (much clippage) > Pivisms: (excusing the other Dr. Pivos... in true pivonian style they > have gone on to discover other "truths"). (and much more clippage) At the risk of being branded a Pivophile (try mentioning that to your friends and co-workers and watch them edge away...), damn, but you are entertaining. But I'm curious, what happens if one Pivo writes something that another Pivo disagrees with? Would we ever see a Pivo vs Pivo clash on the HBD? How do you manage a collective identity, assuming that you are not Borg (which reminds me, does anyone else ever wonder how differently Bjorn Borg's life would have been if his parents had named him Cyrus)? Cheers Brian Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 11:59:49 -0500 From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at welchlink.welch.jhu.edu> Subject: Fw: FOAM CAUGHT ON MUSTACHE COSTS DRINKERS >From the latest Real Beer page: STUDY FINDS FOAM CAUGHT ON MUSTACHE COSTS DRINKERS A study commissioned by brewing giant Guinness discovered that bearded men waste an alarming amount of beer compared to clean-shaven men. The study conducted in the United Kingdom -- but not the Republic of Ireland or Northern Ireland -- found that an estimated 92,370 drinkers with mustaches lose about 162,719 pints of Guinness in their facial hair each year, and that beer is worth about 423,000 pounds ($675,900). I don't look on it as being waste - more like your own personal stash for hard times. Plus it's just the thing for souring a portion of your favorite Guinness clone - just dip in the old beard at pitching time. -Alan Meeker Lazy Eight Brewery 'The possibilities are limitless." Baltimore, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 17:10:28 -0500 From: "Murray, Eric" <emurray at sud-chemieinc.com> Subject: Thanks to all; Re: ceiling splooge First off, thanks to all for the mass amount of good, valuable information that you fellow home brewers provided me. I now feel confident enough to spend a little money, and get started with all grain. I usually just lurk in this group, reading my hbd daily while I get my morning fix of caffeine. However, today I feel a little spunky. Dave wrote: >I graduated from fermenting >primaries in carboys at an early >brewing age when I got tired of >cleaning up the mess and realized >that any kind of overflow hose >( even before I saw this "solution" >in CP's book) would be a ><potential> for infection, eventually. Dave, I "graduated" from fermenting in buckets after my first few batches a couple years ago. I guess I don't have a problem with any messes because I use a 6.5 gal carboy with a standard air lock. I personally prefer this method since I can see what's happening with my brew at all times without the risk of contamination. I also don't bleach or boil my smack packs. A simple swipe with a cotton ball full of alcohol suffices for me. I have never "knock on wood" had a spoiled batch of beer in the couple of years I have been brewing. IMO, most of the literature on brewing, and a lot of advice is overly concerned with sanitation. I have developed the attitude that I just rinse my tools in a little idophor based water, and not to worry about sanitation beyond that. I heard second hand from a guy who worked at a brewery, that all they used was hot water. This would not surprise me given the fact that people have been brewing beer for at least 6000 years without the benefit of having anything to sanitize with. Only in recent history has their been evidence of microorganisms and other 'unsanitary' concerns. Well that's enough for now,, I thought I would do an experiment of posting a reply to the hbd and see how it went. Thanks again to all (It's time to tap an Oatmeal stout of my keg!) Eric Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 23:24:29 -0500 From: Bret Morrow <bret.morrow at prodigy.net> Subject: What is underpitching? Greetings, All the fluff about yeast counts have made me actually look up my notes and see what I call "underpitching." What I call underpitching for my English bitters and IPAs is from 800 to 1800 ml of yeast starter. Sometimes I will pitch the whole starter and others, I will simply use the "yeast cake." I must admit my tasting notes do not show any notable differences with regards to potential faults. The point I think I'm a trying to test here is that I think that most of us are probably pitching about the same amount of yeast. "Underpitching", according to Bud standards, is more likely the norm for homebrewers. The massive underpitching, e.g. using a single smack pak, into 5 gall of green beer is not the norm for most homebrewers who post to this list. (If it is norm for you--try a starter, it could help your beer). SO, what is your starter volume? or number of yeast cells, if you have that data. Additionally, the type of beer being made may or may not be important with regard to the size of the starter. I do not know, however, how many yeast cells I have pitched. I have been playing around with methylene (sp?) blue to attempt to determine these numbers, but to date I have no actual data. Does anyone have yeast cell counts for real homebrew situations (no librarians need to respond). This information could help me estimate what I should be seeing, in the way of numbers. If he's reading, George DiPiro probably has some data with regards to a small brewery which maybe similar (right?). A second issue with regards to counting yeast cells is the method used to count. Without going into to many details, the proper methods are necessary to get a good estimate of these numbers. This issue is addressed in more details than most people want to know in several books and research articles--if you are interested, I can email cites to you. Please note that these are HARD CORE REAL SCIENCE. Supplying details about how the number of cells were estimated would be nice (OK, necessary). So, show us your starter volumes! Bret Morrow (writer of real size paragraphs), Hamden, CT Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 22:02:35 -0700 From: Smith Asylum <smithly at neta.com> Subject: Adding Fruit Squeezings ??? Question for the guru's of brew. At what point in the process of brewing should one go about adding fruit squeezings? What should I do about the sugar content in the juice? I'd like to make a lemon spiked Heff-Weizen and as I recall sugar isn't used until priming. Would the acid in the juice affect the fermentation? Is there a specil strain of yeast I should use? I just signed up for the digest. I should have known earlier that something like this would be available. Thanks for your interest, Lee Smith smithly at neta.com Chandler, AZ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 09:49:47 +0200 From: Ant Hayes <Ant.Hayes at FifthQuadrant.co.za> Subject: Too much Oxygen I am busy working through an SA Breweries textbook for staff. In the chapter on yeast management, they make two assertions that were debated at our club meeting last night: 1. For lager brewing, as little of the cold break as possible should be allowed into the primary fermenter. 2. It is possible to add too much oxygen initially. Both assertions were in the context of pitching sufficient yeast to ferment out, whilst minimising yeast growth. This runs against our club's conventional wisdom that: 1. Cold break is desirable for yeast health 2. One should get as much oxygen into the wort at the start of fermentation as possible. Do people generally employ settling tanks when brewing lagers? What are the side effects of too much oxygen at the start of fermentation? Ant Hayes Johannesburg Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 07:03:59 -0500 (EST) From: darrell.leavitt at plattsburgh.edu Subject: rest or not.... Dan Senne ask if he should rest at 104 F...then boost to 156 or so......well, what I have read here and elsewhere would call for a beta rest at 147 F, and an alpha rest around 158 F.....Fix (and Renner and DePiro,...and numerous others) seem to state that these are optimal temps for both amylases...... ANd, isn't it true that because the malts Dan lists are already highly mod- ified that a glucan rest at 104 is not needed?.../ or more correctly that the 113-130 degree "corridor" is not needed....Where are the expurts? ..Darrell Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 05:17:53 -0800 From: "Hull, Ted" <THull at Brwncald.com> Subject: re: atlanta beer "Fred Garvin's" trip to Atlanta sounds quite interesting. Yes, the majority of the brewpubs in town are in Buckhead, or Butthead, as I've been known to call it. From your description of your trip, it sounds like you fit right in. Glad to hear the beer was tasty too. With the exception of the fact that the best restaurants are in that part of town, it tends to be more of a place to find folks either having their glory days or trying to relive those days. Well, at least in the sense of drinking a lot and overpaying for parking. Oops, I forgot the full-length-mink-wearing-former-NFL-star-now-accused-murderer portion of the crowd. And, this may come as a shock, Atlanta's gay community tends to avoid Buckhead in favor of Midtown and other areas. The folks "Fred" saw were more likely silly OTP'ers (Outside The Perimeter, i.e. suburbanites). YMMV Ted Hull Atlanta, GA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 05:56:00 -0800 From: Jeffrey Donovan <jeffrey at promash.com> Subject: ProMash and First Wort Hoppings Hello HBD'rs! I just wanted to clarify a fact about ProMash and First Wort Hops. Because of the FWH discussions in previous HBD's, as of last December (when Version 1.3.b was released) ProMash allows you increase or decrease the amount of utilization for FWH contribution, based on what YOU think to be true. Simply goto the system settings, hop section. There you will find an entry for the FWH utilization. Thought I would pass this on as a few users seem to have missed the change (prior to V 1.3b, FWH's were always considered to have equal to or more utilization than full boil additions). Cheers! - Jeffrey Donovan Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 05:56:31 -0800 (PST) From: Dryw Blanchard <dryw9680 at yahoo.com> Subject: First All-Grain Batch This is my first post to the HBD and I have a question about brewing an all grain batch. I would like to know how much water you use in the mashtun. Does the consistency look like oatmeal or is it a lot of water with the grains floating throughout? Does it matter as long as you stay at the appropriate temperature for the correct amount of time? I know that this may not be on the same level with most of the discussions, but how about you advanced brewers throwing us beginners a bone. TIA for the replys. Dryw Blanchard __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 09:04:32 -0500 From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> Subject: seeds Visit Johnny's Selected Seeds [http://www.johnnyseeds.com] They have it all! Last year I grew some German chamomile and blessed thistle for an herb beer...then the landscapers "weeded" out my work. But the seeds grew quickly. I do recall seeing a few varieties of heather in there. Cheers! Marc "Huisbrouwerij Zuytdam" Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 09:19:43 -0500 From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: High FG, mead Brewsters: Darrell used 10 pounds of malt in 3 gallons and then at the end of a 30 minute hold at 148F and 154F got a positive test for iodine. Adding another 1 pound of malt and 45 minutes at 158F finally got a negative for iodine. His FG after the boil was 1.15 and adding a gallon of water came to 1.07 and Somehow your numbers don't make a lot a sense. Adding a gallon of water after the boil to perhaps 2 gallons of pre-boil wort which would come down to about a gallon after the boil could give you the reduction in OG you suggest, but 11 pounds of malt in 2 gallons of beer and an OG of only 1.07 doesn't make sense. I assume you ended up at 1.07 with 5 gallons of beer. Why did this iodine persist? 1) possibly a temperature problem - check your thermometer. 2) likely a milling problem - mill finer and if possible do a two-pass milling to get it fine enough and good lauter. 3) Heating from 148F to 154F you may have overheated Always stir continuously 4) High concentrations of grist ( although your 3 gallons and 10 pounds should be OK) will slow the saccharifying enzyme activity. If your enzyme system was not compromised and the temperatures were OK then I am pretty sure it is your milling. I suggest you acquire a cheap SS 4 gallon kettle to allow you to do a full boil. If you bottled this beer two weeks after you pitched a vial of yeast, It may be that it was not finished fermenting and this will easily explain the high FG you experienced. I suggest a face shield and big gloves when you test your first bottle. Seriously! - ------------------------------------- Dick Dunn says: "Realize that meads are no where near as susceptible to contamination as beers" I'd like a further explanation of that, please as I can't help but feel that unpasteurized, diluted honey would have scads ( that's >10^ 6/ml) of bio-contaminants - far more than a boiled wort. - ------------------- Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 08:38:21 -0600 From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu> Subject: "Dummy" brew Steve, The thought that comes to my mind is that no matter what you do, these guys are going to shy away from "dark" beer. Lead them in with something they want. I'll offer three suggestions. First is a Classic American Pilsner. Show them you can brew something similar to what they already like but with real beer flavor. You could get away with a neutral ale yeast. If you do that, you may consider calling it a Cream Ale, but this isn't about style guidelines, it's about converting people. That is my second suggestion, be a Cream Ale that is just a CAP made with an ale yeast. This may not be exactly what a cream ale is but should be sufficient for your "project". The last I would mention would be an American Wheat. You could make a very nice beer that these guys wouldn't be afraid of and wouldn't cause them any trepidation with experimenting with. A german weizen would be nice, but could be a tough style to hit and could be too "bold" for your friends. Don't force them to come to you. Go to them. Give them what they want....light "colored" beer. You can make it very flavorful and increase their willingness to try your other beers, eventually learning to enjoy a dry stout! Just my $0.02 nathan in madison, wi Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 08:52:35 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: Real Ale Festival Randy Ricchi <rricchi at ccisd.k12.mi.us> asks >I haven't seen any postings about the upcoming Real Ale Festival in >Chicago. Anyone from the HBD going? There was an unfortunate conflict between this and MCAB 2 in St Louis March 24-26, and the Ann Arbor contingency (seven of us) are going to that, along with others that I know of from other parts of Michigan. I'm afraid this may well cut into the attendance of both and jeopardize the success of both. Not sure how this could have been avoided by coordination, but it would be good to look out for in the future. I would think HBD would be a good forum for coordination. Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 09:09:30 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: Recipe formulation help Steve Nagley <SRNagley at aol.com> writes: >I don't know if the rest of you have them but several of my >friends, including my golf partner, are of the Bud/Miller/Coors >ilk. Do the rest of us have your friends? Why, are they missing? I don't have them. Have you checked the 19th hole? >They see me drinking a beer that actually has some color >to it and immediately say "I don't like dark beer." My mission >has been stated and it is to brew a batch of dark beer that these >guys will drink and enjoy. Maybe even have some flavor (heaven >forbid - but hey, I've got to drink it too). If you aren't entirely committed to you mission to get them to drink a dark beer, how about this tack? Brew a very pale beer that looks like Bud/Miller/Coors but has flavor. I think that your friend's could be won over to tasty beer if they aren't put off by the color. Many people associate color with strong flavor, as you point out, and you may never get past this with them. Once you have them on to flqvor, you can introduce some color. Ordinarily I'd suggest a CAP, but you say you can't brew a lager. How about a CACA (Classic American Cream Ale)? Brew a 1.044, 25% flaked maize, 25 IBU with BWH noble hops and ferment with 1056 or Nottingham. I'd suggest a cold conditioning of as many bottles as you can cram into the fridge to allow chill haze to form and settle out, or try chill proofing with polyclar, being sure to allow for the reduction of bitterness this will produce. I have found that CAPs and CACAs both appeal to the Bud crowd if they aren't entirely afraid of flavor. Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 09:25:06 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: Question re: Higher than anticipated FG/WLP800 Pilsner-Lager darrell.leavitt at plattsburgh.edu writes: >I know >(or more accurately, I think that I know..) that the addition of the final >pound >of Optic was probably, perhaps, most likey, ...not needed...but is this >what did it for the final gravity? OR, is it that the crystal and caravienne >leave a lot of unfermentables? I agree that you probably didn't need the extra pound. I think iodine tests are unnecessary if you've got good malt and a good thermometer. The high mash temp of that final probably did contribute some unfermentables. And so did the crystal and caravienne. But another likely suspect you haven't mentioned is the 4 lbs. of Munich. It's been my suspiscion/experience and that f others (recently posted) that this is less fermentable than pale malts. This could easily explain your 66% apparent attenuation. A higher pitching rate wouldn't have hurt, but i think you've got enough other explanations. -=-=- I think the apparent resumption of fermentation of your lager when you raised it to 60F was simply excess CO2 fizzing out (technical term) at the higher temp, not vigorous fermentation. Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 08:46:14 -0600 From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu> Subject: Duvel Duck, My suggestion would not to be so complicated. Make the brew as you suggest and ferment at the temps as you suggest UNTIL FERMENTATION IS COMPLETE. You may not be able to get complete attenuation in 6 days. Don't get too caught up in the rest of the process. You cannot repeat what they do in your basement. Cold conditioning is nice. Can you really replicate their process in your basement? I would just brew it like a normal brew and give it some cold conditioning at some point. I wouldn't adhere to their process just to do it. Use the skills / facilities you have to the best of your abilities. Two other thoughts. First, you mention "summer barley with a color of 2.5 to 5.5." This is European coloring notation which is different than the Lovibond system. This is a "pilsner" type of malt, IMHO. Second, the last addition of dextrose before bottling is added to reach an APPARENT original gravity of 1.073. If you actually fermented out and then added several pounds of dextrose to bring the actual gravity up to 1.073, I don't think you'd have beer anymore. Zima? I think you knew this already, but I just felt the need for some clarification. Again, I wouldn't adhere closely to their procedures, use what works for you, not for them. I've got a similar beer on my agenda, but I'm not going to follow their procedures. I'm gonna do it my way. Hope this helps. nathan in madison, wi Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 14:46:38 +0100 From: "Jens P. Maudal" <jens.maudal at c2i.net> Subject: Belgian beers I have gone crazy on making Belgian beers of all kinds, but my endless searching on the net havn't come up with much help on recipe suggestiones. I feel I need more background knowledge for recipe making. I t is easy to find info on Lagers and British ale, but I find very little info on Belgian Beers. Am I looking in the wrong places. Can anybody suggest some good sites or even better a good book on making these beers. Skaal! Jens - -- Jens P.Maudal e-mail: jens.maudal at c2i.net Drammen Norway Greetings from "BottomsUp Brewery" +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ My humble page: http://home.c2i.net/bottomsup/index.htm Norbrygg: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~ketilf/norbrygg.cgi +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 09:29:08 -0600 (Central Standard Time) From: Tidmarsh Major <ctmajor at samford.edu> Subject: re: recipe formulation help Steve Nagley asks for suggestions to color a beer without too much flavor for his friends who are afraid of the dark. How about some caramel coloring? I recall awhile back that someone posted a link to some prohibition-era homebrew notes that included instructions for caramelizing cane sugar to color the beer. Why not give that a try? Caramelizing sugar isn't too difficult, and many cookbooks include instructions, which basically amount to heating the sugar while stirring until it melts and darkens. I don't have suggestions for amount of sugar to provide some color, anyone want to hazard a guess? You might check the online scans of Wahl-Henius for turn-of-the-century recommendations for caramel addition rates. Regards, Tidmarsh Major Birmingham, Alabama Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 09:43:19 -0600 From: "Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies" <orders at paddockwood.com> Subject: bleach, FWH, identity crisis On the use of BLEACH: Dave Burley wonders: "how many HBers dip the packet and scissors in diluted bleach and then briefly into boiled water before opening, as I always do? You really shouldn't tear it open with your teeth or fingers unless you flame them first! {8^) " I agree with Dave that teeth and fingers are less than optimal. Remember that most dilute bleach solutions used by homebrewers need 20 minutes contact time. Stronger bleach solutions that need less contact time may need a little more than a quick dip in boiled water to rinse off the bleach. StarSan needs 30 seconds. A quick spray of StarSan solution on the packet, scissors, and hands will do the trick, and needs no rinse. IMHO, the better solution (no pun intended). On FWH and IDENTITY: Jack Duncan posts <jduncan1 at ford.com> that in his experience is that FWH bitterness is similar to late addition hopping. (To clarify, Steve Cavan didn't post the opposing view, I did. We work at the same place, and sometimes the account says 'Cavan'. Apologies for any confusion. I'm Stephen ROSS, and it was my non-scientific posting, my faults and mistakes are mine, mine, all mine, not Cavan's. He doesn't make mistakes usually. ) Jack's reference (http://brewery.org/library/1stwort.html) is excellent, but note that the hops in this experiment were noble varieties, with little total bitterness to contribute anyway. Fix found that steeping the hops first in no way disables their bittering power. Therefore, adding the hops to the wort first will contribute at LEAST the same amount of IBUs as adding them to the start of the boil, but the perceived flavour is mellower, and you shouldn't lower the amount of hops used. Jack is absolutely correct that ProMash lets you modify how the FWH is calculated. We have ours set for 10% INCREASE in bittering. Warning: more non-science ahead: I've made ESBs with entirely FWH Target & Challenger plugs and the bitterness was fine. Not 50% of what was expected, as Jack's experience would suggest. But I think we can agree that the amount of bitterness contributed by 'normal' FWH (aroma varieties usually added late boil) is not a large proportion of the total IBU, and that the flavour resulting is preferable to late boil additions. cheers, Stephen Ross -- "Vitae sine cerevesiae sugat." ______________________________________________ Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies, Saskatoon, SK orders at paddockwood.com www.paddockwood.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 10:50:42 -0500 (EST) From: Some Guy <pbabcock at hbd.org> Subject: Refreshing... Greetings, Beerings! Take me to your lager... A recent post I just reviewed was signed "Hope this helps". Hope this helps. How refreshing! I remember when MOST of the Digest postings were signed in this way. Hope this helps. That simple statement fully describes the spirit in which the Digest was conceived and in which the Digest is run, and I truly wish more posts were written with the ability to include that signature as the goal. Think about it. Hope this helps! - See ya! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at hbd.com Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock "Just a cyber-shadow of his former brewing self..." Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 10:22:28 -0600 From: Lou.Heavner at frco.com Subject: re: High finishing gravity Jbstrunk at aol.com writes: Recently my extract beers have been finishing with a sg around 1.02 or so. Any comments on how I can get them closer to 1.01 or lower?? I am brewing IPA's and Scotch Ales. A brewer friend says not to worry since they have lots of unfermentabales in them, but unlike Charlie I do worry about my homebrew. Thanks in advance. 1) Were you achieving lower FG's previously? What has changed besides the OG? Has the FG/OG ratio changed? 2) Verify/validate your hydrometer & technique for measuring SG. 3) If you are using laaglander extracts, switch to another brand. 4) Pitch more yeast. 5) Increase oxygenation at pitching time. 6) Try the Dave Burley Clinitest test to verify fermentation is essentially complete. I'm sure he will be happy to supply the details of his method off-line. ;) If it isn't finished, let it ferment longer. Try rousing the yeast or adding more fresh yeast if this seems to be the problem. 7) Try a more attenuative yeast. 8) Listen to your friend. Relax.... Cheers! Lou Heavner - Austin, TX Return to table of contents
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