HOMEBREW Digest #3275 Sun 19 March 2000

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  mash tun design (Doniese)
  Brew Mac? ("Fab & Simon")
  Does a "Self-Run Business" interest you? (homebiz003)
  dyslectic doctor ("Dr. Pivo")
  Has anyone seen Skotrat's Page? ("David Blaine")
  Sight Glass (tube) Components/Sources ("H. Dowda")
  Wyeast Cell Counts ("Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies")
  Digest frequency et al. (Some Guy)
  Thermo ("Sean Richens")
  Fred Garvin (fred_garvin)
  weizen and lager yeast ("Mark Bayer")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 02:35:52 EST From: Doniese at aol.com Subject: mash tun design I have a question concerning mash-tun design for those who know about these things... I would like to build a new mash tun that will be capable of making a 10 gallon batch with no problem. However, I will still primarily brew 5 gallon batches, mainly because like most of use here, I like to experiment with styles, ingredients, yeast, etc. I have several nifty stainless steel vessels available to me for this purpose, and I'm trying to pick the best size. My questions are these: First, what is the "optimum" grain bed depth? What is a safe minimum grain bed depth? What problems will result from a grain bed that is too shallow? Assuming for a moment that heat loss wouldn't be a problem (large surface area, shallow depth), I wonder about extraction rates and clarity of run off. Second, is there any difference with respect to efficiency, channeling, etc., in the following manners of drawing off the sweet wort? (1) port and ball valve located in the side, below the false bottom (2) port and ball valve located in the side, above the false bottom, drawing through a dip tube assembly like most Sanke keg set-ups I've seen, and (3) port located in the middle of the bottom of the mash tun (plumbed out to a ball valve). Again, I'm mainly interested in the flow and efficiency aspects. One thing that may (or may not) be important for (3) is that the bottom of the vessel is flat, not curved to a low point like a keg. I'd really appreciate any help or input. Personal Email is fine, or post here if you think others could use the info. Thanks! Craig in WA state Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1904 09:21:46 +1100 From: "Fab & Simon" <bluetrees at picknowl.com.au> Subject: Brew Mac? HBD, AAARRRHH!!! After the death of my former computer it has been better than six months since I last saw HBD. Try holding your breath for that long. Good to be back. Quick question for the collective. I previously used and loved Suds 4, is there anything similar for Mac? I'd also love to here about good brewing sites out there as I lost everything when old faithful melted down. Private email ok. Simon Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 07:08:07 From: homebiz003 at talk21.com Subject: Does a "Self-Run Business" interest you? ************************************************************* OPPOSED TO COMMERCIAL EMAILS? Advice on how to keep your email address from being harvested for commercial purposes at the end of this message. ************************************************************* Hi, Here's the URGENT "INSIDE INFO" just for you! I just wanted to let you in on this extremely explosive Income Program. This Company has been around for 3 years. All the bugs have been worked out and it is poised at the very beginning of the tremendous growth stage. And Yes, the company is worldwide. If you have been looking for an honest, work from home business that has dynamite products and a desire to help the "little guy" succeed, you have just found it! The Company even gives away corporate enrollments to their distributors...FREE! Lots of other Freebies too! Heavy hitters are joining this International company. Those that know the industry recognize the superior opportunity that the Company is offering! You have just gotten lucky; you're in the right place at the right time! Folks, this is Real! Just reply back and I'll send you the website address where you can get all the info including the enrollment form!!! Please DON"T MISS OUT ON THIS!! I will help you in every way possible, although, as you'll soon see, the only way you'll mess up is if you miss out! UPDATE! We have just formed a group consisting of the Top Recruiters within the Company. Everyone belonging to this elite group has vowed to promote and create tremendous spillover for everyone. All those that enroll because of this email will go into this leg of the organization! PLEASE REPLY BACK NOW!!! The timing is perfect! I challenge you to find a better opportunity anywhere! No empty promises, just solid support along with the dedication to help you succeed! mailto:ace001 at mail.com?subject=More-Info You'll be glad you did! Have a wonderful day! - ----------------------------------------------------------------- Ladies and Gentleman: IF YOU ARE OPPOSED TO ALL COMMERCIAL EMAIL: If you are completely opposed to any and all commercial email, ask your Internet Service Provider to make your email address unlisted. Your address cannot be harvested if it is a non-published address. Your ISP is bound by the U.S. Federal Privacy Act and must comply with your request if you are paying for their services. This mailing is done by an independent marketing company. We apologize if this message has reached you in error. Save the Planet, Save the Trees! Advertise via E-mail. No wasted paper! Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 15:16:39 +0100 From: "Dr. Pivo" <dp at pivo.w.se> Subject: dyslectic doctor My reading ability has come into question: Most recently Steve A. has opined: > Dr.P.IXI - apparently he is not able to accurately read and further: > Little wonder that someone > who cannot read or reason rejects my posts little wonder, indeed. (little Stevie wonder?) Alan Meeker was a little less sure, but implies the same: > Huh? Did you learn to read in school doc? I would like to respond to this right now by saying: "Quite frankly, no." Neither is it a skill I've acquired since leaving school. It just seems to be beyond me. Fortunately, my mummy still reads me bed-time stories. I keep hounding her to read me that real "neat" one where Captain Nemo goes sailing all over the world under water..... but she insists on reading me the HBD. I think this stems from the fact that I can't seem to break my habit of eating all the cigarette butts in the ashtrays, nor the "snail bait" in the garden, and the pomposity exhibited here is very efficacious at causing forced vomiting. > My > God, his arrogance knows no bounds! Next he'll be claiming he came up with > :) OF COURSE I DID!.... and I shall be expecting a royalty check for your recent use of it. As to "(*)", I shall allow anyone to use it freely, but shall now begin collecting my proprietary rights whenever anyone BEHAVES like one (I can smell an impending retirement). Dr. Pivo Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 09:38:44 -0800 From: "David Blaine" <dblaine at mailandnews.com> Subject: Has anyone seen Skotrat's Page? Haven't seen hide nor hair of the Beerslut page in awhile, anyone know if Skot's working on a new server? E Mail me. i.brew2 at beer.com Thanks. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 07:17:06 -0800 (PST) From: "H. Dowda" <hdowda at yahoo.com> Subject: Sight Glass (tube) Components/Sources Want to add a sight glass to my keg wort boiler. What is the collective using for fittings? What is a source (material) for the tubes? Are there commercial 'drill and mount' assemblies available? Thanks. Harold Dowda __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 10:46:19 -0600 From: "Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies" <orders at paddockwood.com> Subject: Wyeast Cell Counts I'd just like to thank Lynne O'Connor of St. Patrick's of Texas, Brewers Supply http://www.stpats.com for the very helpful posting regarding Wyeast XL pack cell counts. The independent lab test confirms Wyeast's published counts of 40-60 billion cells for an XL 175ml pack fully activated. Like others, I've let the pack swell too much before, it is best to pitch at 1" thick. We use 4 month old packs, but keep our stock fresh at no more than 3 months to help ensure faster swell times. A more swollen (attenuated) pack works, but has much longer lag times (36-48 hours) Thanks Lynne, Stephen Ross -- "Vitae sine cerevesiae sugat." ______________________________________________ Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies, Saskatoon, SK orders at paddockwood.com www.paddockwood.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 11:53:06 -0500 (EST) From: Some Guy <pbabcock at hbd.org> Subject: Digest frequency et al. Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... First, there will never be an undigestified or "interactive" version of the mailed HBD ever again. This event of the past was the single-most destructive act ever performed on the DIgest. Yes, there was gobs and gobs of Digest everyday, but the quality was incredibly poor and the volume spiraled quickly out of control as those on the "undigested" version rushed to answer postings the minute they were received, while others posted answers the next day. The Digest became to voluminous for most to follow, and those on the undigested version tired of threads in minutes rather than days resulting in flames thrown at those responding from the Digested version. In effect, it made anyone on the Digested version a casual observer. Even I unsubscribed during that time. Never again. Absolutely out of the question. Second, there are still many who are limited in what they can reasonably receive in email. Many companies and ISPs put a "per item" limit on mail. 50K is a reasonably sized, not-too-horribly huge piece of mail. If the daily mailing was "unlimited" or large enough to give that impression, "bandwidth" would become less of a concern, and there'd likely be far more "drivel" included in each one. Third, we are hosted gratis by O&E Online (oeonline.com). As a well-mannered guest, there are certain things we must do: (1) We can't hog their bandwidth. With 3000+ mailings each issue, we could easily do just that if we were to "take the governor off". (2) We must pretty much be done with any mass mailings prior to their opening their business operations in the morning, and mustn't start them prior to their day's end. This prevents our loading down their network while they're trying to earn the cash which allows them to HAVE the network, let alone host us! (3) We can't make demands on them. That should go without saying, but there are some out there with funny ideas about what the HBD is and what their relationship is to it. The HBD, effectively, is a parasite on a host. Don't take this that O&E overly restricts us - quite the contrary! They have allowed us to do FAR more than had been agreed to when we originally came onto their network - the club pages, the beer site pages, club mailing lists, allied lists - the list of their support goes on! But if your good friend lets you borrow things, you don't want to constantly return them all used up; if you're invited for dinner, you don't eat the whole turkey yourself. Capice? Fourth and finally, without a delay between receipt of postings and their publication, we can not effectively filter the spam out of it, as you have seen a couple of times last month. Digest postings do not get to the Digest through the Janitors. No - they go DIRECTLY into the queue, and it is up to us to spot and eliminate spam. Unfortunately and contrary to what many think, I'm not a piece of code written by Karl to monitor the 'gest and send out wise-cracks now and again. I sleep, eat, and spend time away from the internet - just like some of you. (Karl is a human, too - but I think everyone knows that.) Without that delay, the content of the 'gest would contain quite a bit more unwanted commercial content. Though we strive to be fair and evenhanded in the administration of the Digest, you can see that the conditions under which the HBD exists flat out prevents it from being run as a total democracy. Many things are decided for the Digest readership rather than by the readership. I think our track record in making these decisions speaks for itself. Please rest assured that the reasons we run the Digest in the manner you see are the best case for keeping the Digest around and up to snuff. We do appreciate suggestions; however, we rather they came directly to us rather than a discussion piece to choke the bandwidth of the daily HBD. Thanks! - See ya! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at hbd.com Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock "Just a cyber-shadow of his former brewing self..." Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 11:14:29 -0600 From: "Sean Richens" <srichens at sprint.ca> Subject: Thermo A.J. deLange writes with a totally straight face... ========================================== The chemical potential of a gas (or anything else for that matter) in a dilute solution is u = u0 + RT ln{xi} where xi is the molar concentration of gas i (u0 is a constant that depends on the gas and the solvent). In the gas above the liquid the chemical potential of gas i is v = v0 + RT ln{Pi} where Pi is the partial pressure (or really the fugacity, if you want to get fancy) =========================================== Holy smokes! If I want to get fancy?!?! Are you still in school or are you from planet Kgyzpx? I finished my Master's in chem eng. 7.5 years ago and I've opened my thermo text twice in that period! =:o) Sean Richens srichens.spamsucks at sprint.ca Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 18:43:28 -0500 (EST) From: fred_garvin at fan.com Subject: Fred Garvin Mr. Giek syas of Fred Garvin: "Come on now, some of you are as easy as Fred Garvin is in an Atlanta gay bar or the men's bathroom in the Steelcase atrium." Fred Garvin doesn't go to gay bars. Fred Garvin doesn't work at Steelcase. What Fred Garvin does in the bathroom is Fred Garvin's business. Fred Garvin is a bit scarred from the time he spent at the '94 Auburn Corn Festival ducking the 6'8" dude that asked him to dance. While Fred Garvin was not retired at the time, he was in fact, "off duty". I hope this helped. Fred Garvin Bagley's Feed and Grain, retired. Kentwood MI - --------------------------------------------------------------------- Get free email from CNN Sports Illustrated at http://email.cnnsi.com/ Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 18:33:28 -0600 From: "Mark Bayer" <mark_bayer at mindspring.com> Subject: weizen and lager yeast collective homebrew conscience_ i just got around to catching up on a few back issues, (mba school will do that to you), and i noticed george de piro commenting on weizen and yeast, thusly: >More importantly, why would you bother >to condition the Weizenbier with lager yeast? The only value I can think of >is that lager yeasts are more resistant to autolysis than Weizen yeast, but >why should that concern a homebrewer? Homebrewers have complete control >over their beer from inception to serving. Keeping the beer cold and >drinking it fresh will help much more than adding a lager yeast. here's a somewhat related story: i brewed a weizen last spring and decided to try kraeusening it with a lager yeast. i used a lager yeast only because i happened to be planning a helles. i was not using the kraeusen to carbonate the beer, per se, since it was being force carbonated in a keg; it was more just to assess the flavor impact. you know how kraeusening has this great reputation, etc. it was 65/35 wheat to pils malts and starting gravity 1.054. i bittered it to about 14 ibu (by tinseth), as i normally expect these beers to finish around 1.015 or a little higher (saccharification is at 160 deg fahrenheit). well, i pitched a large, active starter of yeastlab w51 and oxygenated the wort, and got a really strong fermentation that was essentially over in about 5 days. i ran the primary fermentation at 70 deg f.\ at day 10, i started ramping the temperature down a few degrees a day, until on day 13 i made the last adjustment to the thermostat at 54 deg f.\ 10 days later, i kraeusened it with 850 ml of active hellesbier, in high kraeusen (it was 22 hours into its ferment). the hellesbier was being fermented with wyeast 2124. the weizen finished at 1.011, which is quite a bit drier than what i normally aim for. in fact, it dried out so much that i considered the bitterness to be a little too high. i was told by our resident beer expert at the stl brews that it tasted more like the weizens in the central and northern areas of the fatherland, as opposed to the bavarian styles (which is what i shoot for in the bayer household). the other thing i noticed about this beer was that it got progressively "cleaner" tasting as it continued to age in the keg, at 34 degrees fahrenheit. it was gradually losing a lot of the weizen yeast-induced character, like the phenolics and the estery aroma. i attribute this effect to the lager yeast only because it's the only thing i did differently than batches in the past. at 34 deg f, it really didn't seem to be getting any of the tell-tale "staling" symptoms that i've experienced with room temperature storage. i don't think i will kraeusen a weissbier again, unless i use a weizen yeast. the lager yeast cleaned it up and dried it out too much for my taste. i got roughly 79% apparent attenuation from a combination of yeasts that i wouldn't expect to attenuate the wort that much, if one or the other had been used individually. maybe the w51 is more attenuative than i was thinking. i wouldn't have estimated it at more than 75 to 77% apparent. plus i mashed at 160 deg f. now, i had asked doc pivo about this very topic before i tried the kraeusening, and one of the things he wrote me was that the kraeusenbier would have a big flavor impact on the beer. he was right. i admit i did not believe that 850 ml of young helles could dramatically change 5 gallons of weiss, but it did (it was more dramatic as time went on). pivo 1: me 0. the only better way i could have assessed it would have been to split the batch and only kraeusen half so i could do a side-by-side. but, i've done enough of these in the past (without the kraeusening) to know that it changed the beer significantly. south german pils in the morning (double decocted with the budvar pils malt). 4 am comes early. brew hard, mark bayer stl mo (hey, who's coming to mcab?) Return to table of contents
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